I'm about to add to the collection . . . need advice! [Archive] - Glock Talk

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21Carrier
11-14-2011, 16:18
Hey guys! I'm not dead, I swear. Though I do feel like a zombie some days. However, all my hard work has payed off, and I'm about to welcome a new member into the family. However, today I saw an old "fling", and now my mind is no longer made up. There has been a S&W 1076 sitting at a local pawn shop for months, but the guys there want $900 for it, WAYYYY too much. They have thought it was an FBI gun. I emailed S&W about its FBIness, and got a slightly nebulous answer in the negative. Regardless of the answer's vagueness, it was clearly enough to shake the pawn shop guy's blind faith that they had an FBI gun. They are beginning to entertain the idea that I'm right about it not being an FBI gun. However, all parties are now aware that the only REAL way to know for sure is a $50 history letter from S&W. They don't want to pay $50, and I don't want to do it, just to have them decide to not sell me the gun for a realistic price. The good thing is that pawn shop guys are like dogs, and some cash in their face will make them drool. I'm thinking $600 might do the trick given the new doubts about the gun's origins.

Well, I was so sure about it. I was gonna try my best to get the 1076, and if it fell through, I'd go get a G33 or G26 for ankle carry at work. The G29 is kind of heavy in my boot (you read that right). Well, today I went to check out a local gun shop that just moved into an old grocery store building. They tripled in size, and opened a new indoor range. I remembered they had a used, new production Colt Delta Elite a few months back, and decided to check on it. It was still there. But next to it was a NEW, new production CDE, for $75 LESS!!!. I think the prices got mixed up during the move, because the used one used to be $975, but now it's $1050, and the new one is $975. I've always been a sucker for Deltas, and that seems like a good price for a new one. So, I'm torn.

What should I do? Obviously, this gun will be a shooter. I have no use for a safe queen. I'm thinking I'll try to get the S&W first, since it's the harder to find gun, and if they won't budge on the price, I'll buy the Delta. Choices. What say you, old 10mm faithful?

TreyG-20
11-14-2011, 16:33
I'm a firm believer in layaway see if they offer it. it makes buying things alot less difficult in financial situations

21Carrier
11-14-2011, 16:54
I'm a firm believer in layaway see if they offer it. it makes buying things alot less difficult in financial situations

The pawn shop will do layaway, but the only way I'm gonna get that 1076 at a price worth paying is with cash. If I go in there wanting to do layaway, they will want me to pay the full $899, and that's just CRAZY money for a non-FBI 1076. I'm not sure about the other place (with the Delta). I have the money to buy either one, it's just that I refuse to pay $900 for a gun worth 2/3 that. If the place with the Delta does layaway, and the pawn shop will drop on their price, I might have to buy the 1076, and put the Delta on layaway. That would be ideal.

It's not so much about not having the money, but rather just not getting screwed. The 1076 is just heavily overpriced.

G29SF
11-14-2011, 16:57
I don't know if it is a guarantee, however I have read in my own research that the FBI 1076s have verbiage on them that state the gun will fire without a magazine installed. I believe I read this was an FBI requirement. The non-FBI 1076s I belive do not have that verbiage because they will NOT fire without the magazine installed.

Might be a good place to start without paying for the S&W letter...

ColGlocker
11-14-2011, 17:13
Here is some additional information found by Googling "fbi S&W 1076 model vs non-fbi"

The 4.25" barreled 1076 was the gun chosen by the FBI as it's standard issue gun for the 10mm Auto cartridge. The F.B.I. guns differ from civilian 1076s in that they were not equipped with the standard S&W magazine-disconect and are so marked. They also wore what is often refered to the "humpback" or "palmswell" grips. 1076s without the magazine-disconnect bring a premium on the collectors' market.

Here is the web site where I found the information:

http://www.bren-ten.com/website/id55.html

Good luck with your search.

Edit: I have been thinking. If the reason the pawnshop is asking the high price is because of their claim of it being an FBI gun, then it might be worth your $50 to get it confirmed by S&W. If it is an FBI gun, then you have documentation showing it is, in the event you choose to sell the gun down the road. If it is not an FBI gun, it might give you leverage to push the price of the gun down.

Edit: From another forum, I found: I have both, 1076 FBI and the regular 1076. I carry the standard model. Yes, 100 bucks more is no big deal. Honestly I can't see or feel any difference between the two versions. The FBI model will fire with magazine removed and the front of the grip panel is cross checked pattern. My FBI has tritium night sights although dim. They continue to say the standard version can be converted to behave/look like the FBI version. Only way is to get letter from S&W.

TreyG-20
11-14-2011, 17:14
The pawn shop will do layaway, but the only way I'm gonna get that 1076 at a price worth paying is with cash. If I go in there wanting to do layaway, they will want me to pay the full $899, and that's just CRAZY money for a non-FBI 1076. I'm not sure about the other place (with the Delta). I have the money to buy either one, it's just that I refuse to pay $900 for a gun worth 2/3 that. If the place with the Delta does layaway, and the pawn shop will drop on their price, I might have to buy the 1076, and put the Delta on layaway. That would be ideal.

It's not so much about not having the money, but rather just not getting screwed. The 1076 is just heavily overpriced.
The only reason I stated it was because if they both did which they don't then you would be able to get both. I have no clue if the 1076 is FBi related but I'll see what I can find out through some Internet research for you. I'm pretty bored here this afternoon and wouldn't mind know what and if there are some ways to tell.

21Carrier
11-14-2011, 21:56
Thanks guys. I have already done months worth of internet research. Here's the deal on the 1076s. There are ONLY two ways to truly confirm whether or not a 1076 is an FBI gun. One, you get a letter from the S&W historian confirming it (which is $50). Two, the gun comes with the original box (with matching serial number) that has the FBI or FBI Academy sticker on it. Beyond that, there's no way to tell. There are many documented cases of non-FBI guns with IDENTICAL features to confirmed FBI guns. This occurred because many agencies wanted 1076s that were "FBI spec". So, they ordered their guns with the same FBI features.

Here's an incomplete and possibly inaccurate list of what MOST FBI guns should have:
-Palm swell grip (though some have the others)
-No magazine disconnect (can fire w/o magazine)
-Marked with "capable of firing w/o magazine" on slide
-Checkering, horizontal, or vertical lines on front strap
-Novak night sights
-Has a serial prefix of: TEU, TEV, TFE, TFF, TFH, TFK, TFL, TFN, TFP, TFX, THB, THC (rumor abounds that the THC guns were special ordered for the DEA)

There are many other "FBI features", but those are the few I remember off the top of my head. There's a GREAT thread about this in the S&W Forum. Just search for 1076, and look for the thread with like 50,000 views. I am 99.99% sure this gun is NOT an FBI gun. First of all, the serial number is not within any of the confirmed FBI runs. However, it's not too far off (I think it's a THD). Second, as I said above, I sent S&W an email, and here's what the guy said:

"Mr. Boogaerts I checked the serial number and it does not give me any indication of this gun being an FBI gun."

While that's not a simple "NO", it's pretty cut and dry. However, I have tried to be very honest with the pawn guys, and explained that the ONLY way to confirm the gun's origin was to get a letter (since there's no box). They won't invest the $50, and I don't want to for two reasons. One, if it is NOT an FBI gun, they might just say, "Sorry, were gonna wait for some moron to just take our word for it, and buy it for $900." Second, if it IS an FBI gun, it's worth more than $900, and that's gonna price it out of my budget. Besides, I want a shooter, not a collector. An FBI gun would be a collector.

I tried to talk some sense into the guys, and tell them that their price was ridiculous. It's too high for a non-FBI gun, and too low for an FBI gun. I tried to tell them that they will make lots more money if it turns out to be an FBI gun, so the $50 is no big deal. No dice. I also tried this line. I said, "If I walked in to pawn this gun (that's usually worth about $500-600), and said it's an FBI gun, and that makes it worth $900. Would you guys just take my word for it, with no documentation?" Of course, he said, "no." So, I said, "then why should I just take your word for it? As the retailer, it's YOUR job to prove your claim of rarity before you expect me to pay that premium." This didn't impress him much. Also, I have repeatedly told him I have no interest if it IS an FBI gun. I'm just gonna go with the whole "money talks, and BS walks" idea, and just show them some cash. It's been there a while, so I'm hoping they will jump on it.

Jitterbug
11-15-2011, 08:44
Sounds like your hard earned cash is burning a hole in your pocket 21....

You mentioned a G26, because you needed a small carry gun. The G26/27 is a wonderful gun, but I found it a bit large, no way I could carry it in my pocket, plus safety issues for pocket carry with a G26/27, at least for me. My aluminum framed Compact 1911 was comparable with my old G27 for carry purposes, but much, much thinner, so the 1911 always won out. The G27 was my throw in a pack with an empty chamber gun that I didn't mind if it got banged up, can't bang up a Glock right?

For all the time carry, go anywhere gun in 9mm I recommend and carry a Kahr PM9, mine has a laser and night sites and pretty much goes with me everywhere, that is unless I'm carrying one of my 1911's.

Most of the time it's in my pocket in a DeSantis Nemesis, but occasionally I'll carry it on my hip in a Mitch Rosen OWB holster, very comfortable. I can comfortable carry this little gun all day long, anywhere in any type of dress from suit to jeans to summer time shorts.

The wife and I both carry PM9's, pricey but very nice little pistols that can be relied upon once thoroughly broken in. Occasionally I'll carry a S&W 442, just for nostalgia sake or as a spare if one of the Kahr's breaks or needs service...mine broke a mag release after 7 years and many thousands of rounds, $15 part and back in service within a 10 days...and the new part is all metal, as it is on the new models, whereas the old one was plastic with a metal insert. Otherwise change out the recoil spring every thousand rounds or so and go....

It carry's about the same, but 6+1 of 147 gr. Gold Dot beats 5 rounds of 135 gr. Gold Dot out of the 442, not to mention the fast 7 round mag reload, better handling, recoil characteristics and suburb accuracy of the Kahr, kind of like a minny target pistol. Those little guns can really shoot with high precision.

FBI 1076, I'm too lazy to Google, but if I remember right that's a DA only isn't it? I like the 10** series Smith's and owned a 1006 which was my first 10mm, fine pistol, but man that trigger left a lot to be desired. One reason I love 1911's, a good one will spoil you in the trigger department.

I confess to being a trigger snob and I had the trigger worked over on my 1006, but it wasn't right. Unfortunately the gun was stolen in broad daylight in a nice part of town when some scumbag smashed out the window and rumaged through my truck, before I could find a another Gunsmith to work it over.

But, the trigger and the overall mass was the low point for me with the Smith. DA only...???. I'm not sure. Do you want some kind of collector or a shooter?

The above mentioned Kahr is a DA type of gun but the trigger is very long and very, very smooth.

If it were me and I wanted another Smith 10** I'd shop for a 1006 and give that trigger another go.

Cash is king my friend, don't even think of layaway unless it's something special. If you want that 1076 then save until you have what YOU think it's worth based on your own research and go in and plunk it down, short about $75 or so, and tell them here you go, take it or leave it...leaving the $75 in your pocket for wiggle room. From whats been contributed to this thread, I'd have to say it ain't no FBI gun.

Other options, the NIB recent production Delta is no doubt a fine pistol, but...for another couple or few hundred or so you can find a used Dan Wesson, which will have most of the modifications you'll end up wanting on a 1911. I'd recommend a 2008 or later model because these have the ramped barrels, and I'd confirm this with the seller.

With the Colt, well it's a Colt and a 2011 model at that. And if you don't mind sinking cash in it over the years, you will wind up with a very fine pistol with all the nostalgia of being a 100 year anniversary model of the finest pistol ever made...but in 10mm. If it were me, I wouldn't be the least bit concerned about modifying it, probably because it would be a lifetime keeper/shooter for me.

The Dan Wesson will be a shooter, about as good as it gets in my mind and Dan Wesson service is excellent if and when it's needed. It might take awhile for one to pop up, just be patient and continue saving your hard earned bucks.

I'd hang onto the Glock, a gun guy needs more then one gun.

Gunbroker or one of the auction sites is your friend, just use common sense in your purchase and only do business with those who have a verifiable good record.

That's my lengthy two cents...good luck. I'm looking forward to whatever you purchase because I know you'll ring the heck out of it and tell us all about it.

4949shooter
11-16-2011, 17:54
Had a Smith 4046. The double action trigger was no Glock trigger, but was manageable with practice. The gun was built like a tank and I wish I still had it.

That having been said, I am looking hard into a Delta if my FFL can find one for me. I am considering selling (one) of my Combat Commanders if I have to in order to make it a reality.

I think you would enjoy the Delta. The Colt trigger can't be beat (in my opinion) and that sounds like a high price for a Smith.

Good luck deciding!

_The_Shadow
11-16-2011, 19:04
Carrier, Does it have extra magazines for the gun? I believe the FBI guns had 3 magazines. I would buy the 1076 for $800 if it came with the 3 magazines and all the box and papers correct to the pistol, not a penny more if it doesn't have the Roy Jinks S&W letter to authicate the pistol!. BTW they do have people who fake those lables as the sell blank lables and boxes all the time on some of the forums.

Good luck!

Kegs
11-16-2011, 20:40
If I would even think about getting a 1076, it would require the checkering on the front strap.

...but since I don't need any other pistol than my 29, I'm actually happier that I don't need to make any such requirements. :supergrin: :wavey:

CanyonMan
11-16-2011, 22:52
Hey guys! I'm not dead, I swear. Though I do feel like a zombie some days. However, all my hard work has payed off, and I'm about to welcome a new member into the family. However, today I saw an old "fling", and now my mind is no longer made up. There has been a S&W 1076 sitting at a local pawn shop for months, but the guys there want $900 for it, WAYYYY too much. They have thought it was an FBI gun. I emailed S&W about its FBIness, and got a slightly nebulous answer in the negative. Regardless of the answer's vagueness, it was clearly enough to shake the pawn shop guy's blind faith that they had an FBI gun. They are beginning to entertain the idea that I'm right about it not being an FBI gun. However, all parties are now aware that the only REAL way to know for sure is a $50 history letter from S&W. They don't want to pay $50, and I don't want to do it, just to have them decide to not sell me the gun for a realistic price. The good thing is that pawn shop guys are like dogs, and some cash in their face will make them drool. I'm thinking $600 might do the trick given the new doubts about the gun's origins.

Well, I was so sure about it. I was gonna try my best to get the 1076, and if it fell through, I'd go get a G33 or G26 for ankle carry at work. The G29 is kind of heavy in my boot (you read that right). Well, today I went to check out a local gun shop that just moved into an old grocery store building. They tripled in size, and opened a new indoor range. I remembered they had a used, new production Colt Delta Elite a few months back, and decided to check on it. It was still there. But next to it was a NEW, new production CDE, for $75 LESS!!!. I think the prices got mixed up during the move, because the used one used to be $975, but now it's $1050, and the new one is $975. I've always been a sucker for Deltas, and that seems like a good price for a new one. So, I'm torn.

What should I do? Obviously, this gun will be a shooter. I have no use for a safe queen. I'm thinking I'll try to get the S&W first, since it's the harder to find gun, and if they won't budge on the price, I'll buy the Delta. Choices. What say you, old 10mm faithful?


Amigo. I think you just hit on a plan here in "blue." Personally, that is what ai would do, and I think you should stick to that plan. ;)

I too am a Delta fan, as I carry a M1911 EDC mostly. I flop around to a G36, and a G29 at times, but I love the 1911 platform.


Again. I think you are showing sound wisdom with what you said in the blue highlight .


Good luck bud.





CM

Wolf Spyder
11-16-2011, 23:15
21Carrier, buy the Colt Delta Elite !! The gun that saved the 10mm... I would buy the new Colt before they figure out what they have done in miss marking the price. Think about it, buying a Colt Delta Elite on the 100th Anniversary of the M1911. :wavey:

Buy it !! Buy it, just because I want one... and I can live vicariously through your experiences... :rofl:

Reboot
11-17-2011, 11:36
I have no advice for you but I can at least give you my opinion. I've looked at the S&W 1076 and it honestly doesn't appeal to me all that much. If you were purchasing it as a collectible then okay but otherwise *I* just can't get into it much at all.

Now the Delta Elite is a different story. I'm partial to 1911s and if you can get a new Delta Elite for the price of the older model then I'd say go for the DE. I'd love to add one to my collection at some point in time but for now I'm very happy with my G20SF.

But it sounds like you're "jonesing" for the 1076 and if that's what you really want then I say get that one *IF* you can get it for a fair price. If you buy the DE now then you'll probably kick yourself for years to come since you "could have had that 1076 back in late 2011". Okay, maybe that's a little bit of advice there. It's clear you want it.

Good luck. I'd love to have this problem. LOL.

arushus
11-17-2011, 12:21
I have no advice for you but I can at least give you my opinion. I've looked at the S&W 1076 and it honestly doesn't appeal to me all that much. If you were purchasing it as a collectible then okay but otherwise *I* just can't get into it much at all.

Now the Delta Elite is a different story. I'm partial to 1911s and if you can get a new Delta Elite for the price of the older model then I'd say go for the DE. I'd love to add one to my collection at some point in time but for now I'm very happy with my G20SF.

But it sounds like you're "jonesing" for the 1076 and if that's what you really want then I say get that one *IF* you can get it for a fair price. If you buy the DE now then you'll probably kick yourself for years to come since you "could have had that 1076 back in late 2011". Okay, maybe that's a little bit of advice there. It's clear you want it.

Good luck. I'd love to have this problem. LOL.

My opinion is pretty well in line with Reboot's. Id rather have a CDE, but Im not you and since the 1076's are no longer made there are fewer and fewer of them to be had...

4949shooter
11-17-2011, 12:42
Not really relevant to this discussion, but I just dropped the bomb on the wife when she asked what I wanted for Christmas....$$ toward a Delta Elite.

Her answer: "For what?" :rofl:

Jitterbug
11-17-2011, 14:38
Problem with wives is that they think one gun is enough, mine thinks that way even though she has three her self...

Now she want's to learn how to shoot the 1911's...I can hardly wait.

Or course I told her she really should have a 9mm Commander. Which of course I'll have to borrow for testing purposes....

4949shooter
11-17-2011, 14:39
Or course I told her she really should have a 9mm Commander. Which of course I'll have to borrow for testing purposes....

Lol..

arushus
11-17-2011, 14:43
Problem with wives is that they think one gun is enough, mine thinks that way even though she has three her self...

Now she want's to learn how to shoot the 1911's...I can hardly wait.

Or course I told her she really should have a 9mm Commander. Which of course I'll have to borrow for testing purposes....

You had better run at least 1000 rounds through it before she shoots it just to make sure it is completely safe for her to shoot. And then you are going to need to run maybe 100 rounds a week from then on through it to make sure it stays safe for her. Just make sure she knows youre only doing this for her own good, cuz you love her sooo much and would hate to see something happen to her because of a faulty gun...

21Carrier
11-17-2011, 16:29
Sounds like your hard earned cash is burning a hole in your pocket 21....

You have no idea! I've wanted that 1076 and or a Delta Elite for so long, and I finally have the money for at least one of them.

FBI 1076, I'm too lazy to Google, but if I remember right that's a DA only isn't it? I like the 10** series Smith's and owned a 1006 which was my first 10mm, fine pistol, but man that trigger left a lot to be desired. One reason I love 1911's, a good one will spoil you in the trigger department.

The 1076 is a DA/SA gun, very similar to a Sig. The 1046/1086 were the DA only models. The 1076 has a spurless hammer, and a Sig-style, frame-mounted decocker. The DA pull is pretty heavy, but gets better at "half-cock" or after dropping the hammer with the decocker. The SA pull is actually pretty good, especially considering this gun is NASTY and dry.

Cash is king my friend, don't even think of layaway unless it's something special. If you want that 1076 then save until you have what YOU think it's worth based on your own research and go in and plunk it down, short about $75 or so, and tell them here you go, take it or leave it...leaving the $75 in your pocket for wiggle room. From whats been contributed to this thread, I'd have to say it ain't no FBI gun.

With the Colt, well it's a Colt and a 2011 model at that. And if you don't mind sinking cash in it over the years, you will wind up with a very fine pistol with all the nostalgia of being a 100 year anniversary model of the finest pistol ever made...but in 10mm. If it were me, I wouldn't be the least bit concerned about modifying it, probably because it would be a lifetime keeper/shooter for me.

That's exactly what I'll do. I'm going to start with $550-600, and MAYBE go up to $700. I'm also going to let them know that if our deal falls through, I'll be driving very quickly to the other shop to buy the Delta. About the Delta, I just want the thing. I know that it's not the best 1911, but it's a Colt, it's brand new, and it's 10mm. All of that makes me like it. Plus, it looks good to me. I didn't even think about buying it in 2011. What will likely happen is that I'll be buying it in early 2012. Hopefully I'll get the 1076, then get the Delta for my birthday next year. I don't think the Delta is going anywhere.

I'd hang onto the Glock, a gun guy needs more then one gun.


The Glocks aren't going anywhere. They are my favorites, and likely always will be. I have a hard time imagining a scenario in which I would sell ANY gun. About the G26/33 vs. the Kahr PM9, that's a good suggestion. I want a better "at work" carry pistol. I immediately thought of the G33 in an ankle holster, but didn't think of a PM9 in my pocket. That would be another good option. But for now, I want another 10mm.

Carrier, Does it have extra magazines for the gun? I believe the FBI guns had 3 magazines. I would buy the 1076 for $800 if it came with the 3 magazines and all the box and papers correct to the pistol, not a penny more if it doesn't have the Roy Jinks S&W letter to authicate the pistol!. BTW they do have people who fake those lables as the sell blank lables and boxes all the time on some of the forums.

Good luck!

Actually, yes. It comes with 3 magazines, but that means nothing to me. It's a nice perk, but they are available at MidwayUSA for around $35. When I go in to buy it, I'm going to go in with the attitude that it's absolutely not an FBI gun, and they are just being ridiculous to even think it is without documentation. BTW, there's no box or paperwork, just the gun and 3 magazines.

If I would even think about getting a 1076, it would require the checkering on the front strap.

...but since I don't need any other pistol than my 29, I'm actually happier that I don't need to make any such requirements.

It has the checkering on the front strap.

Amigo. I think you just hit on a plan here in "blue." Personally, that is what ai would do, and I think you should stick to that plan.

I too am a Delta fan, as I carry a M1911 EDC mostly. I flop around to a G36, and a G29 at times, but I love the 1911 platform.


Again. I think you are showing sound wisdom with what you said in the blue highlight .


Good luck bud.





CM

Thanks. I am hoping it will work. The exciting part is that I really can't go wrong. Either way, I'll come home with a 10mm that I have wanted for a long time.

21Carrier, buy the Colt Delta Elite !! The gun that saved the 10mm... I would buy the new Colt before they figure out what they have done in miss marking the price. Think about it, buying a Colt Delta Elite on the 100th Anniversary of the M1911.

Buy it !! Buy it, just because I want one... and I can live vicariously through your experiences...








Even if I get the Smith right now, I would be SHOCKED if that Delta sells. The other one (the used one) has been there for about 6 months or more, and it looks brand new, and wasn't over priced. I don't think anybody knows what it is. Even if they like how it looks, I'm sure 99.9% get turned off when they hear it's 10mm. Also, the guy at the store didn't even know it was 10mm. He told me the NEW one was 10mm, but the old one was .45ACP. Hopefully, I'll have both in not too long. Here are some pics of the 1076. I forgot to take some of the Delta:

http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h329/21Carrier/IMG_1516.jpg

http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h329/21Carrier/IMG_1517.jpg

It needs some SERIOUS TLC
http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h329/21Carrier/IMG_1524.jpg

http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h329/21Carrier/IMG_1526.jpg

http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h329/21Carrier/IMG_1523.jpg

http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h329/21Carrier/IMG_1518.jpg

CanyonMan
11-17-2011, 17:13
Ya did good amigo ! We all knew you were going to do that ! Wonder why ?! hahaha

Love it. Now I got to find one some where ..

Good job man. ;)

Have fun, and let us know how he's shooting for ya !



CM

4949shooter
11-17-2011, 17:52
Carrier, do they have a second Delta at that gun shop?

Jitterbug
11-17-2011, 18:47
The new 2011 Delta's are only going to be around a short while, they will get snapped up and once they do, you'll only be able to find the occasional gun on the used market.

Colt makes a limited production run, the "web" get's relatively flooded with them and then bang they're gone.

I went through this, I think it was either last year or the year before with a Colt Combat Elite, I wanted one really bad, they were readily available on G.B. but I didn't have the cash, as I was saving cash the price kept going up (supply and demand) hen when I did finally scrap up the cash the price had either increased substantially and/or they dissapeared from the market...I didn't get one.

21, don't think of the Delta as a "lowly" 1911 by any means, it's a Colt man!

It's just that for a couple hundred more say on a used D.W. you'll get the Beavertail grip safety, better sights, ramped barrel (arguable value) and extended thumb safety that most guy's want on a 1911, added new aftermarket your talking a few bucks here.

That said, the stock Delta is still a very fine gun and nothing to sneer at...plus it's a Colt man!

You gotta get into the Colt thing ya know.

MinervaDoe
11-17-2011, 19:41
If you buy the mismarked Delta Elite before they realize their error, then you can get a bargain.
I'm willing to bet that your pawnshop guy keeps his price high on the 1076 because he knows he has some guy "who wants the gun so bad he can taste it." Who knows, if you go away for a while, the price may go down. But if you go in and stare at it every week, I doubt if the price will ever drop. My bet would be that 10mm is unpopular enough that he will have few interested buyers to begin with.
If you can't afford any of these guns, its time to eat white rice for dinner for breakfast, lunch and dinner for a while. IMHO, paying interest on borrowed money is a suckers bet.

21Carrier
11-17-2011, 23:17
Ya did good amigo ! We all knew you were going to do that ! Wonder why ?! hahaha

Love it. Now I got to find one some where ..

Good job man. ;)

Have fun, and let us know how he's shooting for ya !



CM

CM, I didn't buy it yet. Those were some old pictures I took a while back.

Carrier, do they have a second Delta at that gun shop?

Yeah, there are two, both new production. One is actually a new gun ($975), while the other is a used gun ($1050). I'm really hoping they don't catch on to the price issue. I asked the guy why the NEW one was cheaper, but he didn't seem to know anything. He said he would ask, but I took him elsewhere and distracted him before he did it. I'm hoping he never got around to it.

The new 2011 Delta's are only going to be around a short while, they will get snapped up and once they do, you'll only be able to find the occasional gun on the used market.

Colt makes a limited production run, the "web" get's relatively flooded with them and then bang they're gone.

I went through this, I think it was either last year or the year before with a Colt Combat Elite, I wanted one really bad, they were readily available on G.B. but I didn't have the cash, as I was saving cash the price kept going up (supply and demand) hen when I did finally scrap up the cash the price had either increased substantially and/or they dissapeared from the market...I didn't get one.

21, don't think of the Delta as a "lowly" 1911 by any means, it's a Colt man!

It's just that for a couple hundred more say on a used D.W. you'll get the Beavertail grip safety, better sights, ramped barrel (arguable value) and extended thumb safety that most guy's want on a 1911, added new aftermarket your talking a few bucks here.

That said, the stock Delta is still a very fine gun and nothing to sneer at...plus it's a Colt man!

You gotta get into the Colt thing ya know.

I know, and I seem to keep forgetting that. I looked for a new Delta a few months back, and couldn't find one ANYWHERE. Plus, who knows when Colt will stop making them again. I REALLY would rather have a new one. Maybe I should go for the Colt first. After all, there always seems to be a 1076 or two on GunBroker at any given time. Plus, I can't imagine this one getting sold.

The reason I'm not even looking at the DWs is because they would really strain my budget. The Delta is on the high end of what I want to spend, but still doable. A Dan Wesson would be a stretch.

If you buy the mismarked Delta Elite before they realize their error, then you can get a bargain.
I'm willing to bet that your pawnshop guy keeps his price high on the 1076 because he knows he has some guy "who wants the gun so bad he can taste it." Who knows, if you go away for a while, the price may go down. But if you go in and stare at it every week, I doubt if the price will ever drop. My bet would be that 10mm is unpopular enough that he will have few interested buyers to begin with. If you can't afford any of these guns, its time to eat white rice for dinner for breakfast, lunch and dinner for a while. IMHO, paying interest on borrowed money is a suckers bet.

I can afford either gun by itself. I would never borrow money to buy a gun, and I'm a newbie to layaway, so I haven't even read over anyone's terms. If it's gonna include lots of interest, I wouldn't do it. I would only do that to secure a tough to find gun that I really wanted, and I would make sure to pay it off in no more than a month. I think you're right about the pawnshop guy. He knows I want the gun. Hell, I took the time to email S&W about it. However, he also knows that I have no interest in the gun above $600. At least that's what I've tried to tell him. I've gone so far as to tell him that if it DID come back as an FBI gun, that I would no longer be interested. I've tried to make it very clear that I have no use for a $900 S&W. Who knows how it will all play out, but I should have another gun in about a week or two. The only way it would fall apart is if the Delta sells, and the S&W guy won't budge. I guess we'll see.

CanyonMan
11-18-2011, 00:16
Man do I feel stupid, :embarassed: I blew through those pics and all excited for ya, walked off and thought, wow, this dont look like a delta elite !!!

But I thought, oh well, so he is happy, I am happy for him ! :supergrin:

Don't do that to me man !!! haha.

Now go get the delta, and I will look at pics more slowly and carefully. haha.

Back pain meds... They can turn anything into a delta in a heart beat. :rofl:


I'll wait on the delta pics.

Drivin to Dallas this weekend for a big gun show, so we will see what I come out of there with.

Later amigo.






CM

4949shooter
11-18-2011, 05:52
CM,
Yeah, there are two, both new production. One is actually a new gun ($975), while the other is a used gun ($1050). I'm really hoping they don't catch on to the price issue. I asked the guy why the NEW one was cheaper, but he didn't seem to know anything. He said he would ask, but I took him elsewhere and distracted him before he did it. I'm hoping he never got around to it.


Thanks. If my FFL can't find me a Delta, if you don't mind I might ask you for the gunshop information, looking at whichever Delta you don't buy for yourself.

What condition is the used one in?

21Carrier
11-19-2011, 01:21
Thanks. If my FFL can't find me a Delta, if you don't mind I might ask you for the gunshop information, looking at whichever Delta you don't buy for yourself.

What condition is the used one in?

The used one is in great condition. I thought it was new when I first saw it a while back. I'll PM you more information.

I've decided I'm going to get the Delta. I've thought about it, and I really need a 1911, and the Delta would be the perfect first 1911 for me. I am pretty sure the 1076 isn't going anywhere, and I'll be really disappointed if the Delta disappears, and I spend another year looking for one. I think it's time I own a 1911. So, if the Delta is still there when I get paid, it's coming home.

4949shooter
11-19-2011, 06:22
Good choice on the Delta!

Besides, I have a feeling that 10X Smith will be sitting around for while longer.

MinervaDoe
11-19-2011, 07:46
The used one is in great condition. I thought it was new when I first saw it a while back. I'll PM you more information.

I've decided I'm going to get the Delta. I've thought about it, and I really need a 1911, and the Delta would be the perfect first 1911 for me. I am pretty sure the 1076 isn't going anywhere, and I'll be really disappointed if the Delta disappears, and I spend another year looking for one. I think it's time I own a 1911. So, if the Delta is still there when I get paid, it's coming home.
Phase 1 - (the decision) is complete
Phase 2 - buy the Delta is next
Phase 3 - save up for the 1076
Phase 4 - get a friend to periodically check the price at the pawnshop while never letting on that they are interested (they should go in looking for watches or something else) .... but you yourself cannot go back to the pawn shop, or the price will never go down... :cool:

nickE10mm
11-19-2011, 07:53
... I think it's time I own a 1911.

Yep, agreed.

21Carrier
11-19-2011, 13:59
Phase 1 - (the decision) is complete
Phase 2 - buy the Delta is next
Phase 3 - save up for the 1076
Phase 4 - get a friend to periodically check the price at the pawnshop while never letting on that they are interested (they should go in looking for watches or something else) .... but you yourself cannot go back to the pawn shop, or the price will never go down... :cool:

Good idea. Once I have the money for the 1076 (the amount I think it's worth), I'll make a trip in there and see if cash will sway their minds. If not, I'll employ your plan. At that point, if nothing changes, I'll just get one off GunBroker. I just like that I can see and touch that one before buying. And it really looks like it's in good shape. It's dirty as hell, but looks like it was stored for a decade or more. I just REFUSE to overpay for it. I won't pay stupid money for it.

MinervaDoe
11-19-2011, 15:13
Good idea. Once I have the money for the 1076 (the amount I think it's worth), I'll make a trip in there and see if cash will sway their minds. If not, I'll employ your plan. At that point, if nothing changes, I'll just get one off GunBroker. I just like that I can see and touch that one before buying. And it really looks like it's in good shape. It's dirty as hell, but looks like it was stored for a decade or more. I just REFUSE to overpay for it. I won't pay stupid money for it.

Now you've got me thinking about my WISHLIST again. :shocked:

OH Nooooooo!!!

Both of those guns would be very cool. 10mm accuracy with a 1911 trigger? Bring it on. :cool::cool: But first, I need something practical (like a Mini 30).

Jitterbug
11-20-2011, 08:57
If you go with the Delta and for some reason don't like it, I doubt you'll have any problem getting your cash back.

21Carrier
11-21-2011, 07:29
If you go with the Delta and for some reason don't like it, I doubt you'll have any problem getting your cash back.

Exactly. Since you seem to know 1911s, here's a question you may be able to answer. I've been wondering about the Delta's barrel. I know it's got a ramped frame, not barrel, and that's not the preferred setup, but shouldn't that be BETTER for support? My reasoning is that a ramped barrel MUST intrude into the chamber, and reduce support. So, a UNramped barrel should have perfect support. Is that the case, or does the unramped Delta barrel still lack some support? If my thinking is correct, it seems a ramped barrel is only better for feeding. I understand needing a ramp with the fat .45ACP, but maybe it's ok for the slimmer 10mm. I'm not worrying about feeding problems, but rather just thinking that an unramped barrel might not be as bad as it sounds.

Jitterbug
11-21-2011, 11:13
21, aside from owning 3 1911's over the past 20 years, most of my knowledge comes from visiting 1911 forums and trying to weed out the good from the bad from people far more knowledgeable then I'll ever be....and I still have a lot to learn about the platform especially in 10mm, Nick could probably answer your questions better then me, not to mention I think the kid is way smarter then me.

2 of my 1911's are unusual in that my .45acp is a 4" barrel on an Aluminum Officer sized frame. And my 10mm is a Commander 4.25" sized gun.

The overall general consensus in the 1911 world is that anytime you deviate from the 5" steel .45acp Government model, potential issues and challenges arise. And my experience has born that out. Both of these guns have given me fits at times, although both are running very well now…for the time being…and I trust either as an EDC CCW. I've found the correct recoil and mag springs go a long way to getting them and keeping them running right, and then keeping them fresh from Wolff whether they need it or not. Most of the time feeding issues with a 1911 is magazine related.

Dave Severn's over on the Dan Wesson forum has my respect as an excellent 1911 gunsmith, about 5 or so years ago when I was shopping for a 10mm 1911, he owned a 10mm CBOB and often touted it as his favorite do everything 1911, he also used 175 Winchester Silvertips, which he considered some of the best 10mm factory ammo available and he frowned on long term usage of the hotter/heavier Double Tap loads of the time, indicating that long term usage “might” unessacarily beat up the gun/system over time.

It wasn't chamber support issues, but other potential weak links in the 1911 design, such as the lugs and the barrel/link system itself, keep in mind the original .45acp 1911 design ran in the 16,000 psi range.

On the other hand, 1911's have run high pressure cartridges for quite some time, such as the .38 Super.

Prior to 2008 Dan Wesson used standard throated barrels, I fired well over 500 various Double Tap loads through mine, older stuff right off the bat. Along with 500+ Georgia Arms 180 Gold Dots that do an honest 1175 fps from my gun.

The only load that gave me any issues was an early box of D.T. 200 gr. WFNGC, the old BTB load. I think this particular box was bad, possibly overcharged, since it gave me issues in a G29 with a Barsto too...since I didn't have any serious Glock smiles or bulges, nor any really flattened primers, like a goof I went ahead and put 40+ rounds through the Barsto Glock and another 7-8 through the D.W. In the D.W. that load ruined the recoil spring in quick order...in hindsight it was stupid firing that load, but, it's not the first stupid thing I've survived. I got lucky on that one.

I also put another 2k+ or so rounds of mild to moderate factory/reloads through the older standard barrel in the D.W.

Once I started reloading again in earnest and especially with jacketed bullets, I started getting some serious setback issues with the standard barrel. My "guess" is that the geometry of the barrel throat was off, causing the bullet to hang up and then jump to the barrel hood, coupled with a 22-24# recoil spring this caused the setback.

A solution would have been to re-throat, but by doing this it could cut into chamber support....or so I'm guessing.

By 2008 D.W. had made the switch to ramped barrels on the 10mm, my guess is to improve feeding, while yet providing ample chamber support.

Having issues with mine I contacted them and they cut the frame and installed a new barrel in my gun for no charge...probably $500 worth of work.

So far so good, it seems that as long as I keep my COL at 1.250" my feeding/setback issues have greatly improved. COL didn't help with the old barrel.

I think my current ramped chamber support is fine, even though I don't run the really hot stuff, one of the reasons being the 1911 lug/link issue.

I'm happy with a 200 gr. at 1150 from a 4.25" barrel and I don't see any point in pushing the gun to gain an additional 50-100 fps. If and when I feel I need more then that I have a 4” 629 in .44 Mag.

A 180 gr. 10mm at up to 1250 fps is plenty for me, I'm experimenting now with 180's in the 1075-1100 fps range and seriously doubt if I have any use for a 180 going much over 1200 fps, 1250 max. Though I intend to go down that road in the future just to see.

I haven't really played with any 135-165 grain bullets very much, although I do have a renewed interest in the 155-165 gr. bullets, mostly due to your wax tests and some other info, but again, I won't be pushing the envelope with them.

I have some old Double Tap 155 grain Gold Dot's that are giving me 1362 fps with excellent accuracy and control, which seems to be good enough for me, so when I run out I'll probably try to duplicate that velocity range with either the Gold Dot or XTP.

I "think" on the Delta, the Colt engineers really know what they're doing and with over 20 years on the 5" Delta they have the throat geometry/chamber support down pat. I say that because I visit a lot of different reloading and 1911 forums and in all this time I really can't recall anybody complaining about feeding issues or pressure issues (Glock smile) with a Delta, with the caveat that I don't recall anyone pushing one really hard either. Not like the Glock guys.

I recently read a thread on the Smith and Wesson reloading forum where a guy had an older Delta worked over by Ted Yost, that he had fed over 5000 rounds a year of 1250 fps 180 gr. XTP’s, and it was still running strong. Most of the work appeared cosmetic and unfortunately he made no mention of any barrel work, so I assume it remained stock.

If it were me, I wouldn't push any 1911 10mm really hard for any length of time and I do intend do send mine out to Severn's within the next year or two for inspection of the locking lugs as well as some other work as a long term preventive maintenance thing for a 10mm 1911.

My one and only hottest load, thus far...is the 200 gr. BTB WFNGC running 1130 fps, this is with 8.3 grains of 800x, I may run it up to 1150 fps and experiment with some other powders, but essentially I'm happy with this current load and only plan on running a couple of hundred or so rounds a year with it and a 200 gr. XTP in the same velocity range.

This is what my gun is for, a light weight, thin, easy to carry and conceal, high capacity, semi-auto, that I can shoot and quickly reload well. A last ditch woods gun for potentially dangerous animals, Mt. Lion to black bear on up to Moose. And I consider it minimal and barely adequate for all except lion and small black bear, and even though an extra 75-150 fps from a 5” or 6” would make me feel a bit better, I truly don’t think it’s going to make a world of difference….

With a quick mag change it becomes a formidable city gun for defense against two legged varmints and with light and fast 135’s or 155’s an extra house gun. With my mild 180 cast loads I can plink with it cheaply and very enjoyably all day long. It’s a very sweet shooter.

If it were me, and to use a car analogy I’d consider the Glock with the AM barrel to be the muscle car and the 1911 as a nimble sports car.

At the end of the day, I don’t know squat about chamber support, but since I keep my loads somewhat tame my main concern is accuracy and feeding and not beating the gun up.

Hope this helps….

http://glocktalk.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1318&pictureid=4856

4949shooter
11-21-2011, 15:50
Exactly. Since you seem to know 1911s, here's a question you may be able to answer. I've been wondering about the Delta's barrel. I know it's got a ramped frame, not barrel, and that's not the preferred setup, but shouldn't that be BETTER for support? My reasoning is that a ramped barrel MUST intrude into the chamber, and reduce support. So, a UNramped barrel should have perfect support. Is that the case, or does the unramped Delta barrel still lack some support? If my thinking is correct, it seems a ramped barrel is only better for feeding. I understand needing a ramp with the fat .45ACP, but maybe it's ok for the slimmer 10mm. I'm not worrying about feeding problems, but rather just thinking that an unramped barrel might not be as bad as it sounds.

As you know, I am interested in a Delta, and I had asked this same question here:

http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=94899

21Carrier
11-24-2011, 06:01
21, aside from owning 3 1911's over the past 20 years, most of my knowledge comes from visiting 1911 forums and trying to weed out the good from the bad from people far more knowledgeable then I'll ever be....and I still have a lot to learn about the platform especially in 10mm, Nick could probably answer your questions better then me, not to mention I think the kid is way smarter then me.



Thanks for the reply, Jitterbug. If and when I get the Delta (God, I hope it's still there when I go to get it), I think I'll just take it slow to begin with. For me, that means starting with some medium power stuff, and working up. At some point, I'll move up to some hot loads (stuff that's max in my G29, but still safe), and see how it handles it. Of course, I'll safely work the loads up again. No more jumping straight up to a "safe load", like I did with the 135gr Noslers in the G20L. That was scary. Of course, this time, I'll inspect the chamber and see how much support exists before I ever get started. I failed to do that with the G20L, and just ASSUMED that the LWD barrel had excellent support. I won't do that with a $1,000 Delta.

In the end, I have a feeling it will see a pretty steady diet of warm-hot loads. I don't shoot much weak 10mm, and I wouldn't be happy taming my loads for the Delta. So, essentially, I guess I will be a study in the durability of the Delta. I will be meticulous about maintaining the gun, and I'll be sure to do all the regular things like replacing recoil springs. I've heard intervals of 1,000-5,000, but I'll likely err on the side of caution. If the Delta is still there when I go to buy it, I hope to have it forever. I'm really looking forward to owning my first 1911. Then, I can start to rack up other brands. The S&W 1076 (or some 10XX) will be next, then another Glock or two. Then, maybe I'll try a Sig. I hope I never win the lottery. If so, I'd have to sell my bed to make room for the guns.

4949shooter
11-24-2011, 07:27
My Commanders started to act "funny" after about a thousand rounds. Switching out the recoil springs to fresh ones from Wolff solved the problems.

I am told that in order to facilitate the long life span of a Delta Elite, the best thing to do is change the dual springs out every thousand rounds. Springs are cheap, and are well worth it in my experience with Commanders in .45 ACP.

B.Reid
11-24-2011, 10:07
Although the s&w is cool the 1911 is the better gun.

notjustanothermini
11-24-2011, 10:47
AH HA. you sound like me 21carrier.

i too, am looking for a gun. for xmas for myself.

and ill be damned if your list isnt reflective of mine.

i want a ruger 1911 (then convert it to 10mm, posibly with a para p16 frame 16+1 double stack)

or a sig type decock 10xx the one with the 4.5 inch barrel.

soo jealous of you.

GET THE DELTA ELITE. that is the 10mm no one can sneeze at. F'n cool gun.

it is a shame, a production 10mm hasnot been built yet that i would be happy with Out the box.

ever heard of a megastar?

B.Reid
11-24-2011, 11:16
AH HA. you sound like me 21carrier.

i too, am looking for a gun. for xmas for myself.

and ill be damned if your list isnt reflective of mine.

i want a ruger 1911 (then convert it to 10mm, posibly with a para p16 frame 16+1 double stack)

or a sig type decock 10xx the one with the 4.5 inch barrel.

soo jealous of you.

GET THE DELTA ELITE. that is the 10mm no one can sneeze at. F'n cool gun.

it is a shame, a production 10mm hasnot been built yet that i would be happy with Out the box.

ever heard of a megastar?

I just got the Kimber stainless target in 10mm very nice gun.

notjustanothermini
11-25-2011, 18:07
if it helps, 21carrier, i picked up a para ordnance p14 .40sw($529) and also a finish chamber reamer from brownell's for 70 bux

i hope i have no issues with the conversion. a double stack 10mm that size in a 1911 is badass. 1911 10mm are badass in general.

CanyonMan
11-25-2011, 23:08
Exactly. Since you seem to know 1911s, here's a question you may be able to answer. I've been wondering about the Delta's barrel. I know it's got a ramped frame, not barrel, and that's not the preferred setup, but shouldn't that be BETTER for support? My reasoning is that a ramped barrel MUST intrude into the chamber, and reduce support. So, a UNramped barrel should have perfect support. Is that the case, or does the unramped Delta barrel still lack some support? If my thinking is correct, it seems a ramped barrel is only better for feeding. I understand needing a ramp with the fat .45ACP, but maybe it's ok for the slimmer 10mm. I'm not worrying about feeding problems, but rather just thinking that an unramped barrel might not be as bad as it sounds.


Hey 21, congrats on your 10mm 1911..

Just a quick note to ya amigo as a guy that has been a 1911 dude forever. The ramped barrel is not ideal, IMO. The 'unramed barrel is'. The design in a 1911 is that the lower beveled lip or curve on the end of the barrel, you know, the little mini ramp or lip, should be a 32nd of an inch from the frame ramp when you open and lock the slide back and take your finger an push on the muzzle end of the barrel, and look down in the breech where the lower lip or curve of the barrel meets with the frame feed ramp, you want a 32nd of an inch clearance between that lower barrel lip and the top edge of the 'frame ramp'. (hope I am explaining this good enough to give the mental image)

I have an extremely custom built M1911, (one of them) wish they all were. ha. and done by the best smith in TX. Ken Crawley. I tell ya 21 he knows 1911's. Man this old boy is excellent, and getting him to work on your gun is like a 10 mile line waiting list. haha. So Between me and him working on it, it gets done !

I have no real revelational point here for you or those interested, except to say, i personally don't like a 1911 with a barrel feed ramp rolling over down into the chamber area. This seemingly small, seeming insignificant little 32nd of an inch clearence I've described, is one really major place of concern, along with other things for the properly tuned 1911.

BTW.. All of mine/are/have been steel frames and slides for longer life under every day shooting and stouter loads, and a 20/22# spring form Wolff.

Man I fel like making this a novel here for ya but am
to sleepy, lucky for you, so I will drop off here till perhaps another time. ha.,

I have learned over a looooong stretch of years in my love for the 1911, that there are a few good places to have a tune up, and trust me, they work. I have never had a burp from this gun in all the years i have put it through the ringer, normal loads of 850 to 875 fps, to 0ver 900+ fps which are all with 230gr bullets. I shoot nothing lighter than that with the 45, and 200gr max with a 10mm, (which I am currently shy of and want to 'replace' tommorw at this big Dallas gun show, wish me luck please) ha.

Just a little tid bit of info I've learned over the years that as I said, seems to be much over looked, but can bring superb performance if done correctly.

Lock up in the barrel/slide area and what i have metioned to you here, and a very well tuned extracter are critical. I put in a over size firing pin stop and a hardened steel extracter, and had Ken machine cut the lower lip of the little barrel ramp (for lack of a better word and description which I am drawing a late night blank on now, ha) but you know what i mean amigo, and these 3 things a lone have made these shooters run 100%, as they should. Plus the frame feed ramp polished to mirror finish and the chamber as well. DO NOT over look an oversized Firing pin stop. The manufacuers put in stops that are loose fitting for ease of removal, but under fire they can tend to move around on ya and cause issues. The ones in mine are a dang job to get out, BUT, it has added to the tremendous function of the weapon. (to long for my weary brain to get into tonight ha) Just giving the "high lights here. haha

I cannot comment on how many rounds this puppy has through it... Thousands I assure you, and with every type and kind of ammo, as did my "late" 10mm. :crying: But if anything is helpful or encouraging to ya here, then Great... if not. Sorry.

Look forward to ya getting the gun, and hearing good things from ya buddy ! ;) Hope I can say the same for me tomorrow.. We'll see.

BTW... Jitterbug, is a good friend of mine, and he has good wisdom as well in these matters. Our phone calls turn into looong friendly gun and boolits conversations, and he is a joy to hang out with. I just get sick of him catchin all those big trout and telling me all this wonderful MMMM how good supper was last night stories :eat: ! haha. Makes me want to ring his neck cause I aint there doing it with him ! ha. We will one day. I got the invite, so thats a start ! ;)


Welp, nite, and again, good luck amigo.
Hope something here was of interest. I should have been more detailed. If ya ever wnat to Pm me or Jitter any time.



later boys



CM

21Carrier
11-26-2011, 00:20
Hey 21, congrats on your 10mm 1911..

Just a quick note to ya amigo as a guy that has been a 1911 dude forever. The ramped barrel is not ideal, IMO. The 'unramed barrel is'. The design in a 1911 is that the lower beveled lip or curve on the end of the barrel, you know, the little mini ramp or lip, should be a 32nd of an inch from the frame ramp when you open and lock the slide back and take your finger an push on the muzzle end of the barrel, and look down in the breech where the lower lip or curve of the barrel meets with the frame feed ramp, you want a 32nd of an inch clearance between that lower barrel lip and the top edge of the 'frame ramp'. (hope I am explaining this good enough to give the mental image)

I have an extremely custom built M1911, (one of them) wish they all were. ha. and done by the best smith in TX. Ken Crawley. I tell ya 21 he knows 1911's. Man this old boy is excellent, and getting him to work on your gun is like a 10 mile line waiting list. haha. So Between me and him working on it, it gets done !

I have no real revelational point here for you or those interested, except to say, i personally don't like a 1911 with a barrel feed ramp rolling over down into the chamber area. This seemingly small, seeming insignificant little 32nd of an inch clearence I've described, is one really major place of concern, along with other things for the properly tuned 1911.

BTW.. All of mine/are/have been steel frames and slides for longer life under every day shooting and stouter loads, and a 20/22# spring form Wolff.

Man I fel like making this a novel here for ya but am
to sleepy, lucky for you, so I will drop off here till perhaps another time. ha.,

I have learned over a looooong stretch of years in my love for the 1911, that there are a few good places to have a tune up, and trust me, they work. I have never had a burp from this gun in all the years i have put it through the ringer, normal loads of 850 to 875 fps, to 0ver 900+ fps which are all with 230gr bullets. I shoot nothing lighter than that with the 45, and 200gr max with a 10mm, (which I am currently shy of and want to 'replace' tommorw at this big Dallas gun show, wish me luck please) ha.

Just a little tid bit of info I've learned over the years that as I said, seems to be much over looked, but can bring superb performance if done correctly.

Lock up in the barrel/slide area and what i have metioned to you here, and a very well tuned extracter are critical. I put in a over size firing pin stop and a hardened steel extracter, and had Ken machine cut the lower lip of the little barrel ramp (for lack of a better word and description which I am drawing a late night blank on now, ha) but you know what i mean amigo, and these 3 things a lone have made these shooters run 100%, as they should. Plus the frame feed ramp polished to mirror finish and the chamber as well. DO NOT over look an oversized Firing pin stop. The manufacuers put in stops that are loose fitting for ease of removal, but under fire they can tend to move around on ya and cause issues. The ones in mine are a dang job to get out, BUT, it has added to the tremendous function of the weapon. (to long for my weary brain to get into tonight ha) Just giving the "high lights here. haha

I cannot comment on how many rounds this puppy has through it... Thousands I assure you, and with every type and kind of ammo, as did my "late" 10mm. :crying: But if anything is helpful or encouraging to ya here, then Great... if not. Sorry.

Look forward to ya getting the gun, and hearing good things from ya buddy ! ;) Hope I can say the same for me tomorrow.. We'll see.

BTW... Jitterbug, is a good friend of mine, and he has good wisdom as well in these matters. Our phone calls turn into looong friendly gun and boolits conversations, and he is a joy to hang out with. I just get sick of him catchin all those big trout and telling me all this wonderful MMMM how good supper was last night stories :eat: ! haha. Makes me want to ring his neck cause I aint there doing it with him ! ha. We will one day. I got the invite, so thats a start ! ;)


Welp, nite, and again, good luck amigo.
Hope something here was of interest. I should have been more detailed. If ya ever wnat to Pm me or Jitter any time.



later boys



CM

CM, thanks for all the info. I am totally new to 1911s, so I'm trying to learn as much as possible. Thanks for the info about the oversized FPS. I've heard loose ones can fall out of Series 80 guns. If it is loose, I'll replace it, and maybe with one of the small radius ones. I'm also VERY glad I learned about the "idiot mark" BEFORE I got the gun. That would have been a sad day to scratch it before firing it. Again, thanks for all the info!

CanyonMan
11-26-2011, 00:47
CM, thanks for all the info. I am totally new to 1911s, so I'm trying to learn as much as possible. Thanks for the info about the oversized FPS. I've heard loose ones can fall out of Series 80 guns. If it is loose, I'll replace it, and maybe with one of the small radius ones. I'm also VERY glad I learned about the "idiot mark" BEFORE I got the gun. That would have been a sad day to scratch it before firing it. Again, thanks for all the info!



Man I was just fixin to turn in and hit the hay and made one more pass through here.

You are very welcome. Wish I was not so dang sleepy so I could have detailed the what for's and how comes for ya better, but my eyelids feel like they got anvils tied to them ! :faint:

Anway, you'll be on here again whoopin it up with your new gun, so we'll all have a chance to hang out again I bet. Man I just hope I walk out the door tomorrow with a new M1911 10mm "and keep it this time." :supergrin:


Good shooting and stay same Pard !








CM

nickE10mm
11-26-2011, 08:26
21, aside from owning 3 1911's over the past 20 years, most of my knowledge comes from visiting 1911 forums and trying to weed out the good from the bad from people far more knowledgeable then I'll ever be....and I still have a lot to learn about the platform especially in 10mm, Nick could probably answer your questions better then me, not to mention I think the kid is way smarter then me.


You are too kind, Jitterbug.... but the deal is, you've ALREADY covered just about everything that needed to be said! (so modest!) In addition, I just saw that good ol' CanyonMan posted here today so There is probably nothing left for me to even say. I'll give you the simple version below, some of which might repeat what Jitterbug and CM said already....

The 5" steel 1911 is built and timed (by design) for the .45ACP. That is not to say that you can't be successful running one in other calibers (9mm, .40SW, .38 Super, .10mmAUTO, 45 Super, .45Rowland, etc etc).... but you should realize that the more you deviate from the standard 5" , all-steel .45ACP, the more potential issues you could potentially have. Going to a 4" Commander, 3" Compact, a 6" longslide or aluminum framed pistol could all affect the decisions you have to make to build your pistol or simply get it running. When you DO finish your 1911, it will surely be what a good 1911 is... a fighting machine!

My recommendation for equipping a (new) 5" 10mm 1911 would be:

1) install a fully ramped barrel (more general mass under the chamber area for the higher pressure loads). I've had a couple different 1911's with ramped barrels and they are JUST as reliable as my un-ramped pistols.

2) install a Wollf 20lb recoil spring (and the included extra power firing pin spring) IN COMBINATION WITH an EGW flat-bottomed firing pin stop. This is to slow the slide's unlocking by changing the geometry of the firing pin stop and hammer relationship....(as opposed to tuning ONLY the recoil force... you are also changing the physical geometry of the slide and frame). You can use a 22- or 24lb recoil spring, as well, depending on what your ratio of mild-to-wild power you're going to be shooting on a regular basis. I shoot mostly hot and nuclear from my longslide and I run a 22lb recoil spring along with the flat radiused FPS. I could easily get away with a 20lb recoil spring with the same setup. Some people will run a 24lb spring and no flat bottomed stop. I recommend getting the stop fitted and using a lighter recoil spring. A little trivia for you: The flat bottomed firing pin stop was an original part of the 1911 design by JM Browning. It was removed to make it easier to rack the slide. (Remind you of another, similar situation with a few FBI agents using 10mm???) The flat-bottomed FPS is THE single more important mod for your 10mm 1911. Only downside is that it makes the pistol's slide a bit harder to rack. THINK OF IT THIS WAY: The FPS slows the rearward unlocking / rearward movement after firing, whereas the recoil spring is responsible for returning the slide BACK into battery. If you're concerned about the difference in recoil damage going BACK versus going back INTO battery, remember: The rear of the frame and inner barrel/frame abutment are actually DESIGNED to catch the slide in recoil, whereas the tiny barrel feet, lugs and slide stop are NOT designed to take the brunt of a heavy springed slide going back into battery. The idea is to balance the recoil violence going backwards AND forward into battery. Most people are so concerned about putting a heavy recoil spring in the pistol that they don't realize that a 1911 can be damaged more easily on the return-to-battery than a Glock because of the 1911's design. The 1911 isn't inferior because of this, its just something that needs to be understood. Every firearm design will have positives and negatives to understand to best make use of them. For example, a Glock HAS NO firing pin stop to adjust so its only got a recoil spring for recoil managementl. In the case with the Glock with heavier loads, you'll just keep increasing the recoil spring weight until the pistol starts having function issues at which point you will have to stop there.... whereas the 1911 can be tuned a bit more using a new firing pin stop AND recoil springs combination ... which balances both sides of the recoil equation. If that makes sense. lol

3) use quality magazines and, preferably Wolff XP mag springs. Lots of stuff happening REALLY fast in a single stack 10mm pistol. That bullet needs to get up into that feeding area FAST to catch the train! You will also find that a 1911 mag with XP mag springs will be easier to load than a Glock 15rd mag with XP mag springs. This is a good thing.

4) Once you learn exactly where to lube your 1911, do it, often.. 1911's run better wet. In fact, I think that if you were in the field and burnin' up hundreds of rounds I think it would be more important to bring oil instead of bore solvent.

Anyways I'll stop rambling ... got work to do! Hopefully I didn't forget anything important.

Good luck!

dsb1829
11-26-2011, 08:37
I dunno, it's a good year for a 1911 but not sure the DE is the choice. Maybe I am wrong, but despite the fact that mfg make a 10mm 1911 does not make it a strong gun. The main benefit of the DE over the old S&W is that replacement parts are readily available.

I see you are down in Hoover. I work in Trussville. If you would like to shoot a 1006 we could meet up and swap for a couple of magazines. I am interested in how that LS of yours feels.

CanyonMan
11-26-2011, 19:53
Well, drove to Dallas to the gun show, held the Deta Elite in my hand, and fondled it for a few minutes, and jacked the slide back inspected all i could, looked and looked and looked, and put it down, and drove home empty !

Why you ask CM ? Well because it was $ 998.00 +tax. I can buy another saddle horse to train for "canyon use out here for that." :supergrin:


So, I am still shy a 1911 "IN" 10mm. But I have a plan. I am very tight with the best 1911 smith in TX. And will have him start form scratch on on a caspian frame and built to "MY" specs (with his generous wisdom added) a 1911 10mm for me. No, it won't cost as much even as a custom, 1500.00 2,000 $ gun, because we are good friends. ;) (ace in the hole we call it)

Man even the Glocks in that show today, just plain jane Glocks were 660.00 +tax. ! A Ruger single six was almost 450.00. I went over to the area selling spurs and lariats, and riata's, and chaps, and cowboy gear, and was content over there, but I am up to my eye balls in all of them, and his cost on custom spurs were from 300,00 to 1,000, $$, and I build custom spurs and other cowboy gear to use out here on the ranch, so why give him my $$$.... I drove home a empty man... :crying: Except for my billfold, haha, which still had enough dinero to buy supper for 'everyone...' haha.


Hope your day was better than mine. Back to the G20 when I carry it in the saddle bags filled with high cap mags for the possible threat of Illegals.. (not kidding here). I carry 200gr BT WFNGC with 10.5 grs BD in them in the saddle bags, and a 44mag/45LC on the hip rig, and a 45/70 with 405gr cast, or a 35remington, in the rifle scabbard, in case of illegals gone wild.... haha.


Well enough AMUSEMENT for y'all tonite ! A long sleep is in order ! 4:00am Comes around fast !

Hope y'all had a great thanksgiving, and all your guns are shootin straight.


Thanks to 21C and Jitter, and Nick, for all your encouraging words, and I am 'slowly' (but not yet completley) leaning towards the 10mm. Not there yet "over my 45acp M1911", but I am giving some serious thought to it.. This has been a public announcment ! :tongueout:


Stay safe all you old boys, I am writing once again half asleep ! :yawn: :faint:


See ya later !


Bless y'all !




CM

_The_Shadow
11-26-2011, 21:09
Good luck Carrier with the Delta Elite purchase, it should be a great pistol!
Looking forward to the range reports!

21Carrier
11-26-2011, 22:06
My recommendation for equipping a 5" 10mm 1911 would be:

1) install a fully ramped barrel (more general mass under the chamber area for the higher pressure loads). I've had a couple different 1911's with ramped barrels and they are JUST as reliable as my unramped pistols has been.

I'm not going to modify a Delta like that. I'll save the ramped barrel for the 10mm Fusion I will no doubt buy some day.

2) install a Wollf 20lb recoil spring (and the included extra power firing pin spring) IN COMBINATION WITH an EGW (or other brand) flat-bottomed firing pin stop. This is to slow the slide's unlocking/opening via lever-action (as opposed to ONLY the recoil spring force affecting slide travel). You can use a 22- or 24lb recoil spring, as well, depending on what your ratio of mild-to-wild power you're shooting. I shoot mostly warm, hot and nuclear from my longslide and I run a 22lb recoil spring with flat radius FPS. I could easily get away with a 20lb recoil spring with the same setup. Some people will run a 24lb spring and no flat bottomed stop. I recommend getting the stop and using less spring. A little trivia for you: The flat bottomed firing pin stop was an original part of the 1911 design by JM Browning. It was removed to make it easier to rack the slide. (Remind you of another, similar situation with a few FBI agents using 10mm???) The flat-bottomed FPS is THE single more important mod for your 10mm 1911. Only downside is that it makes the pistol a bit harder to rack. I could still rack 10 at a time if I wanted to so don't worry about the weight. THINK OF IT THIS WAY: The FPS slows the rearward unlocking / rearward movement after firing and the recoil spring pushes the slide BACK into battery. REMEMBER: The rear of the frame and inner barrel/frame abutment are DESIGNED to catch the slide in recoil, whereas the forward movement of the slide when rechambering a round will only crash its entire weight into your barrel feet and upper barrel lugs when slamming home. The idea is to balance the recoil for the least violence possible. Most people are so concerned about putting a heavy recoil spring in the pistol that they don't realize that a 1911 can be damaged more easily on the return-to-battery than a Glock due to the design. Doesn't mean its an inferior design, you just have to understand it. For example, a Glock HAS NO firing pin stop to adjust so its only got a recoil spring to affect recoil. In the case with the Glock with heavier loads, you will just keep stepping up the recoil spring weight until its too heavy to function, then step it back a bit.... whereas the 1911 can be tuned with a firing pin stop AND recoil springs (which balance both sides of the recoil equation). If that makes sense. lol

That sums up everything I've read pretty well. I was wondering about keeping the stock 23lb spring in the gun (or I have read it's 23lb), but a 20lb would be much better. I agree (in my 100% hypothetical, 1911 newbie mind) that a 20-22lb recoil spring and small radius FPS would be ideal. Not only is the lighter spring better for the reasons you mentioned, but also because it will slow forward slide speed (and increase feed reliability) and reduce the chances of bullet setback (under poor-feed circumstances). That setup should give a good balance of reduced rearward velocity and reduced forward velocity.

3) use quality magazines and, preferably Wolff XP mag springs. Lots of stuff happening REALLY fast in a single stack 10mm pistol. That bullet needs to get up into that feeding area FAST to catch the train! You will also find that a 1911 mag with XP mag springs will be easier to load than a Glock 15rd mag with XP mag springs. This is a good thing.

I'll probably stick with stock Delta mags until/unless they give me issues.

4) Once you learn exactly where to lube your 1911, do it, often.. 1911's run better wet. In fact, I think that if you were in the field and burnin' up hundreds of rounds I think it would be more important to bring oil instead of bore solvent.

Anyways I'll stop rambling ... got work to do! Hopefully I didn't forget anything important.

Good luck, 21!

I am good about keeping guns lubed. I actually use too much on the G20LS just because the damn bead-blasted finish was so rough.

I dunno, it's a good year for a 1911 but not sure the DE is the choice. Maybe I am wrong, but despite the fact that mfg make a 10mm 1911 does not make it a strong gun. The main benefit of the DE over the old S&W is that replacement parts are readily available.

I see you are down in Hoover. I work in Trussville. If you would like to shoot a 1006 we could meet up and swap for a couple of magazines. I am interested in how that LS of yours feels.

I see lots of worries and doubts about the Delta, but none from actual owners. What I see from owners are glowing reviews and high round counts. I just saw a guy that claimed he had 15k 10mm rounds, and 50k .45ACP rounds (Delta frame only) on his Delta. No issues. I've never heard of any Delta breaking besides the early frame cracking issues, which were quickly resolved. Besides, I think the Delta fits me pretty well. I care more about functionality.

I'll be going to get the Delta this week (PLEASE let it still be there!!!). If it's not there, it will be the 1076. I'll let you know next time I plan to shoot, and you can come down. I'll be glad to swap with you, and you can shoot any of mine. I'd love to shoot a 1006. That's really the S&W 10XX I would prefer. I like the Sig style of the 1026/1076, but I REALLY like the extended hammer and safety on the 1006.

Good luck Carrier with the Delta Elite purchase, it should be a great pistol!
Looking forward to the range reports!

Thanks Shadow! Whichever way I go (depending on if the Delta is still there), you know I'll put it through its paces, and take lots of pics/videos of the shoot.

99blkta
11-26-2011, 23:21
I'd love to shoot a 1006. That's really the S&W 10XX I would prefer. I like the Sig style of the 1026/1076, but I REALLY like the extended hammer and safety on the 1006.



I've seen a 1006 locally, looks almost brand new, by almost I mean it looks as though it may have had 50 or so rounds through it if that much. One of the mags is still wrapped and they have the box. I think they were asking 800 for it.

21Carrier
11-27-2011, 01:57
I've seen a 1006 locally, looks almost brand new, by almost I mean it looks as though it may have had 50 or so rounds through it if that much. One of the mags is still wrapped and they have the box. I think they were asking 800 for it.

See, now THAT's worth $800. The 1006 is rarer than the 1076 (I think), and the 1076 near me looks like all hell (internally). The outside is in good shape, but it's been shot a bit. And they want $900. I'm still pissed about that.

4949shooter
11-27-2011, 05:50
The frame issues were fixed by Colt. They starting machining a relief cut into their frames. All their 1911 frames now have this cut including my two Commanders in .45 ACP.

Interestingly, I was buying ammo to shoot my 20SF at the range yesterday, and one of the guys who works there had made a remark that the carbon steel blued Deltas are more durable due to frame elasticity. I had never heard this before, and I will say that this gent is extremely familiar with 1911's. Though I had to tell him that Colt doesn't make the Delta in carbon steel anymore.

That having been said, I am looking forward to a range report from you, Carrier. I am also interested to see how this gun functions box stock from Colt, the way it was designed to.

4949shooter
11-27-2011, 05:52
Double tap.

Jitterbug
11-27-2011, 08:21
I'm hoping that Delta is waiting there for ya too 21, nothing wrong with Glock's but we need more 10mm's on the forum.

4949shooter
11-27-2011, 08:48
I'm hoping that Delta is waiting there for ya too 21, nothing wrong with Glock's but we need more 10mm's on the forum.

We definately need more tens on the forum. Thinking positive..

Jitterbug
11-27-2011, 10:44
Ooops. I meant 1911 10mms...

_The_Shadow
11-27-2011, 11:02
See, now THAT's worth $800. The 1006 is rarer than the 1076 (I think), and the 1076 near me looks like all hell (internally). The outside is in good shape, but it's been shot a bit. And they want $900. I'm still pissed about that.

Smith & Wesson 10mm pistols<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
1006 - 26,979 units produced 1990-93
1076 - 13,805 units produced 1990-93
1066 - 5,067 units produced 1990-92
1026 - 3,135 units produced 1990-91
1086 - 1,660 units produced 1990-92
1046 - 151 units produced 1991 (only)

1006- 5" barrel, slide mounted safety/decocker traditional double action
1026- 5" barrel, frame mounted decocker traditional double action
1046- 5" barrel double action only<o:p></o:p>
1066- 4.25" barrel, slide mounted safety/decocker traditional double action<o:p></o:p>
1076- 4.25" barrel, frame mounted decocker traditional double action
1086- 4.25" barrel double action only

nickE10mm
11-27-2011, 14:48
21Carrier,

Oh I wasn't saying it would be good to MOD the Delta with a ramped barrel. Ramped is ideal but I'd NEVER mod a stock Delta :). If you have one built, that's a different story.

The stock recoil assembly on the OLD Deltas were cheap plastic rod double spring. That should be replaced by a Wolff. The new Deltas probably don't have that janky setup.

Bapple
11-27-2011, 16:11
21carrier,

I bought my 1006 and it was not in the best shape. I cleaned it as best I could, then sent it in to Robar for a full NP3 treatment. Thing looks better than it probably did when new.

The Smith 10's are very, very sweet shooting 10mm's, pick that one up when/if you can! :cool:

Here is my 1006 after NP3 treatment and a set of Hogue grips...

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn186/Bapple/Robar003.jpg

21Carrier
11-27-2011, 21:59
I'm hoping that Delta is waiting there for ya too 21, nothing wrong with Glock's but we need more 10mm's on the forum.

Me too. I just got my work schedule, and it looks like Thursday will be the day. What's the deal with me buying guns on the first of the month?! I bought my G29 on April 1, 2011, and will hopefully be buying the Delta on December 1, 2011. I need to dig up my receipt for my G21SF. If it's on the first, it will be weird. I'm also off Saturday, so the range report will not have to wait for long.

Smith & Wesson 10mm pistols<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
1006 - 26,979 units produced 1990-93
1076 - 13,805 units produced 1990-93
1066 - 5,067 units produced 1990-92
1026 - 3,135 units produced 1990-91
1086 - 1,660 units produced 1990-92
1046 - 151 units produced 1991 (only)

1006- 5" barrel, slide mounted safety/decocker traditional double action
1026- 5" barrel, frame mounted decocker traditional double action
1046- 5" barrel double action only<o:p></o:p>
1066- 4.25" barrel, slide mounted safety/decocker traditional double action<o:p></o:p>
1076- 4.25" barrel, frame mounted decocker traditional double action
1086- 4.25" barrel double action only

Thanks for the figures, Shadow. I remembered the numbers 26k and 13k, but had them backwards.

21Carrier,

Oh I wasn't saying it would be good to MOD the Delta with a ramped barrel. Ramped is ideal but I'd NEVER mod a stock Delta :). If you have one built, that's a different story.

The stock recoil assembly on the OLD Deltas were cheap plastic rod double spring. That should be replaced by a Wolff. The new Deltas probably don't have that janky setup.

I think it's still the plastic guide rod/dual spring setup. But I'm not sure. I know the MSH is plastic, but I've also heard there are only 2 MIM parts in the whole gun.

21carrier,

I bought my 1006 and it was not in the best shape. I cleaned it as best I could, then sent it in to Robar for a full NP3 treatment. Thing looks better than it probably did when new.

The Smith 10's are very, very sweet shooting 10mm's, pick that one up when/if you can! :cool:

Here is my 1006 after NP3 treatment and a set of Hogue grips...

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn186/Bapple/Robar003.jpg

Damn! That's a nice looking 1006! Those grips make it look similar to a Witness (which I think is a good looking gun). Nice job on the NP3 treatment. I never thought about doing that, but it looks nice.

Jitterbug
11-28-2011, 08:06
21, if that new Delta has the plastic guide rod, do some research on it. I've read that the "sacrificial" plastic guide rod was/is a good idea.

On another note, I was over on the S&W forum and a guy just picked up a 1076, and there are some interesting 10** comments over there...so for your edification.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-semi-auto-pistols/215568-1076-way.html

4949shooter
11-28-2011, 13:33
Here is a pretty good review on the new production Delta Elite:

http://ezine.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=29

21Carrier
11-28-2011, 21:42
21, if that new Delta has the plastic guide rod, do some research on it. I've read that the "sacrificial" plastic guide rod was/is a good idea.

On another note, I was over on the S&W forum and a guy just picked up a 1076, and there are some interesting 10** comments over there...so for your edification.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-semi-auto-pistols/215568-1076-way.html

I have heard the same thing about the plastic guide rod. It seems to make sense. What I've heard seems to indicate that the plastic was designed to absorb some of the shock, and be, as you said, "sacrificial". I'm not gonna be swapping parts for a while. I'll give it several hundred rounds worth of testing before I mess with it.

Thanks for the 1076 link. I'll check it out.

Here is a pretty good review on the new production Delta Elite:

http://ezine.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=29

Hahaha! I've read that damn article about 10 times. It seems every time someone mentions the Delta Elite, that article gets tossed in. It's a good article with good pics. It's really the only good internet article out there.

nickE10mm
11-29-2011, 06:23
I'm not gonna be swapping parts for a while. I'll give it several hundred rounds worth of testing before I mess with it.

Of course, that's always the best route. Shoot it.... shoot it a lot! Don't fix something that works just fine!

4949shooter
11-29-2011, 06:39
Of course, that's always the best route. Shoot it.... shoot it a lot! Don't fix something that works just fine!

Amen.

arushus
11-29-2011, 10:25
Hey carrier, remember when you said this?

If I had the money, I would buy three Fusion 1911s right now. I was just looking through their guns for sale. At first I thought they were just example guns or packages, and they were made to order, but it seems all the pictured guns are already made and ready for sale (though they can be customized however you want). Of course, you can also order a totally custom gun. I always thought Nick's Fusion was one of the best looking 1911s I've ever seen, but I never took time to really check out their guns. Wow. Forget a Delta Elite. For just a few hundred more dollars, I could get a MUCH nicer gun, with much better features.

There are three that I would buy today if I had the cash. There's a "Scout" 5" that's got a dark grey frame, black slide, and black grips. Oh, it looks so good. Then, a Commander sized bobtail and 6" Hunter would have to join it. No doubt, when I eventually buy a 10mm 1911, it will come from them. No one else looks to make such a variety of 10mm 1911s, and theirs just look/sound really nice.


haha, I'm not holding anything against you bro, I was just reading this in an old thread and thought I'd bring it to your attention, lol...Go for the Delta, I would!<!-- / message --><!-- edit note -->

Jitterbug
11-29-2011, 10:51
I haven't priced a Fusion, at least not lately. But, I think the difference today is more then a couple or few hundred $$$. I'd guess they start at $1500 and quickly go up from there.

Dan Wesson on the other hand, they run $1000-1500, depending, and mostly used, although they are reintroducing the 5" 1911 Razorback for 2012 or so I've read. (See the Dan Wesson Forum, on 1911Forum.com), there is a Fusion Forum on there too.

A year or so ago I was seeing used 1911 D.W. pop up on G.B. now and again in the $1000-1200 range, these have features such as beavertail grip safties, extended thumb safeties, checkering, grips and higher quality sights (nite sites) and models after 2008 have ramped barrels.

In other words many of the aftermarket features a 1911 owner would want.

The Colt Delta is more like the original 1911 design, but still very much loved by many, it's hard to argue with a well built Colt 10mm 1911 for $975 or so, especially in tough economic times. $200 or $300 goes along way towards components to make ammo with!

Bob Serva the owner of Fusion, used to run Dan Wesson and is considered by many to have brought back the 10mm 1911 to life.

If only I had more money!

I still need a 5 and a 6" 10mm 1911, at least the 5" and if I had the $975 and saw a 2011 Delta I'd probably snag it.

nickE10mm
11-29-2011, 11:05
I haven't priced a Fusion, at least not lately. But, I think the difference today is more then a couple or few hundred $$$. I'd guess they start at $1500 and quickly go up from there.

Yep...they go up QUITE quickly.

Bob Serva the owner of Fusion, used to run Dan Wesson and is considered by many to have brought back the 10mm 1911 to life.


I believe Bob DID bring back the 10mm 1911 ... and did a LOT for the cartridge in general.

I still need a 5 and a 6" 10mm 1911, at least the 5" and if I had the $975 and saw a 2011 Delta I'd probably snag it.

I still need a lightweight CCO.... don't know when it will happen anytime soon though :crying:

4949shooter
11-30-2011, 05:28
Here is more Delta feedback from our own GT 1911 forum:

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1379705

Jitterbug
11-30-2011, 07:52
The lightweight aluminum CCO makes for a very nice CCW, I have a Kimber Compact CDP II which is essentially the same gun, probably a little over 2500 rounds through it now and it is finally running pretty very well with the last 2000 rounds being trouble free.

I try not to shoot it much due to the aluminum frame, even though it is my most accurate pistol, I would like to trade up to the D.W. version one of these days.

4" slide on an aluminum Officer frame. IIRC Freakshow (sp) a former forum member built one many years ago in 10mm, but he used a steel frame.

Jitterbug
11-30-2011, 08:00
Good read on that link 4949, it confirmed my suspicions about Colt's production runs, as I said I went through the same thing with the Colt Combat Elite a while back, all of a sudden there were a bunch in the low $900 range, then the supply quickly dwindled and price rose into the $1100 range...then bang, they were gone.

I never did get one.

4949shooter
11-30-2011, 08:15
Good read on that link 4949, it confirmed my suspicions about Colt's production runs, as I said I went through the same thing with the Colt Combat Elite a while back, all of a sudden there were a bunch in the low $900 range, then the supply quickly dwindled and price rose into the $1100 range...then bang, they were gone.

I never did get one.

JB if I can find one for around $900 I am going to snatch it up. If not, my buddy has been after me to buy his G21SF.

21Carrier
12-01-2011, 02:58
Hey carrier, remember when you said this?




haha, I'm not holding anything against you bro, I was just reading this in an old thread and thought I'd bring it to your attention, lol...Go for the Delta, I would!<!-- / message --><!-- edit note -->

I most certainly DO remember saying that! However, those few hundred more dollars (really more like $500-1000) would push it out of my price range for now. Also, I said that when I really knew nothing about 1911s. Now, I know just enough to get myself in trouble. Even though it's true that the Delta has pretty limited features for its price, it seems to have reliability. Which, to me, is worth several hundred dollars. Really, the ONLY feature I think I might have to add to the Delta is a beavertail grip safety. I worry that the factory one might be uncomfortable with hot loads.

Anyway, I'll be heading up there in the morning! I hope it's still there! If it's still there, I'll post pictures later on tomorrow. I'm really wondering what I'll do if the new one is gone, but the used one is still there. If the used one looks perfect (and I think it did), I might get it, but I'm not sure. I REALLY want a new one. I guess we will see.

JimIsland
12-01-2011, 10:48
Good luck bud...keep us posted.

21Carrier
12-01-2011, 13:24
I brought her home!!! More details later.


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nickE10mm
12-01-2011, 13:28
I brought her home!!! More details later.
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EXCELLENT news. MUHAHAHAHAHA!!! Another 10mm 1911 joins the forum.

21Carrier
12-01-2011, 16:45
Here are some quick pics. I'm about to open a new thread with lots of pics. Here it is in the box, and another pic with the newly expanded family. Damn, this thing is sweet!

http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h329/21Carrier/Colt%20Delta%20Elite%20Pictures/IMG_2144.jpg

http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h329/21Carrier/Colt%20Delta%20Elite%20Pictures/IMG_2146.jpg

ModGlock17
12-01-2011, 16:49
Congrats! Your family is now multi-continental. :cool:

21Carrier
12-01-2011, 16:57
Congrats! Your family is now multi-continental. :cool:

Yep, it's good to have an American 10mm.

4949shooter
12-01-2011, 17:01
Congrats Carrier!

Looking forward to more pics and a range report..

99blkta
12-01-2011, 22:52
Congrats man, looks great!

MinervaDoe
12-02-2011, 11:26
Damn, this thing is sweet!
Let the honeymoon begin.

Time to do some shootin'.

leeward419
12-02-2011, 17:21
that is absolutely GUNGORGEOUS! (ie better than female hooters, almost)

freakshow10mm
02-04-2012, 22:44
4" slide on an aluminum Officer frame. IIRC Freakshow (sp) a former forum member built one many years ago in 10mm, but he used a steel frame.
To correct and clarify, my 1911 is an aluminum frame, not steel. The frame is a Kimber Pro Carry that started out as a .40 S&W bull barrel, rechambered to 10mm. After a few months I sold the slide assembly on 10mmtalk.com and replaced it with a Fusion (STI) assemble in 4.25" Commander configuration with traditional bushing barrel. The frame is Commander size. It's a wonderful weapon that I've had since 2007. I have built a few 4 inch and 4.25 inch slides on both Commander and Officer frames for customers in the past. I much prefer the 4.25 bushing barrel as the shortest practical barrel in the 1911. In my opinion, the officer barrel length should only be for .45 ACP.

Bobtailed aluminum frame Commander 1911 in 10mm Auto with C&S internals, Ed Brown externals, and Metalform magazines. Lots of dirt in the grip's checkering and holster wear. This is an every day working gun, not a safe queen.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/freakshow10mm/DSCN2425.jpg

4949shooter
02-05-2012, 05:24
Very nice Freakshow. :thumbsup:

If you don't mind me asking, what's the $ cost of such a build?

Jitterbug
02-05-2012, 08:23
I stand corrected, very nice pistol freakshow!

freakshow10mm
02-07-2012, 00:56
Very nice Freakshow. :thumbsup:

If you don't mind me asking, what's the $ cost of such a build?
Last one I built was fall of 2010. Stainless Commander slide on an aluminum frame, Heinie Slant Pro sights. Price at that time was $2,500 shipped with 5 Metalform 8rd mags and sighted in for a 25y zero 180gr XTP @ 1300fps. The pistol as pictured above weighs as much as a Glock 29; a mere 25 ounces empty.

I stand corrected, very nice pistol freakshow!
No problem, just wanted to have correct information out there. Thanks for the compliment on the pistol. I'm still around, just not as much as before. Appreciate you remembered me from a while ago. :wavey:

4949shooter
02-07-2012, 06:23
Last one I built was fall of 2010. Stainless Commander slide on an aluminum frame, Heinie Slant Pro sights. Price at that time was $2,500 shipped with 5 Metalform 8rd mags and sighted in for a 25y zero 180gr XTP @ 1300fps. The pistol as pictured above weighs as much as a Glock 29; a mere 25 ounces empty.


Thank you.