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Rich V
11-14-2011, 16:28
There is a thread on ARFCOM where an early gen G20 had a serious KB using DT ammo.
Link to thread:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1253136_My_10mm_KaBoom.html&page=1

I can't say what was at fault but looks like some very over pressure rounds + the generous chamber relief on the early G20s.

I have a very early G20 and have never seen a case bulge like this poor guy had even with some hot hand loads I've made (155gr @ 1475 f/s).

Food for thought, stop when you see a problem don't keep shooting!

PBRLite
11-14-2011, 16:49
Fully Supported Lonewolf Barrel=Problem Avoided.

Kegs
11-14-2011, 17:23
Fully Supported Lonewolf Barrel=Problem Avoided.

Bingo!

G29SF
11-14-2011, 17:26
Considering DT velocities are below what is published, I have my doubts on that KB. Not saying it didn't happen (of course it did), however there are too many unknowns.

I have shot just about all of DTs varieties currently offered (just got into 10mm this year) with a stock G29 barrel (which has less support than the G20). Of course mine is a Gen3... so I don't know if there are barrel issues between Gen2 and Gen3.

danattherock
11-14-2011, 17:32
Looks like two Glock 20 KABOOMS today...


A thread from our general glocking forum (with pics of gun and injury)


http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1381518



My bad, see they are the same report after reading the above link.

Rich V
11-14-2011, 17:32
Considering DT velocities are below what is published, I have my doubts on that KB. Not saying it didn't happen (of course it did), however there are too many unknowns.

I have shot just about all of DTs varieties currently offered (just got into 10mm this year) with a stock G29 barrel (which has less support than the G20). Of course mine is a Gen3... so I don't know if there are barrel issues between Gen2 and Gen3.

If you look at the photos posted by the OP and others in that thread you can see that the early G20 barrels had a much more "generous" chamber relief than do the newer G20s. Glock clearly reduced the amount of chamfering on the G20 over the years.

ChuteTheMall
11-14-2011, 17:35
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1381518

also posted in General Glocking

Rich V
11-14-2011, 17:35
Looks like two Glock 20 KABOOMS today...


A thread from our general glocking forum (with pics of gun and injury)


http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1381518


One kaboom two posts, that is the same guy as the one on ARFCOM. Thanks for pointing that out.

attrapereves
11-14-2011, 19:07
I'm about ready to get into reloading for my G29. I intend on using 180grn bullets for range use. What is a safe velocity to stay under so I don't risk damaging my gun?

The Georgia Arms ammo I've been buying is loaded around 1100, but I'm sure that's not quite 10mm full power.

Would 1200fps be adequate and still not risk damaging my gun?

danattherock
11-14-2011, 20:48
Get a better barrel is my suggestion...


http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6055/6345785709_8a0eac89c8_z.jpg


From G29SF's thread...

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1381595



-Dan

Taterhead
11-14-2011, 20:55
I'm about ready to get into reloading for my G29. I intend on using 180grn bullets for range use. What is a safe velocity to stay under so I don't risk damaging my gun?

The Georgia Arms ammo I've been buying is loaded around 1100, but I'm sure that's not quite 10mm full power.

Would 1200fps be adequate and still not risk damaging my gun?

Depends on the powder used. Longshot and Accurate #9 should be fine at those levels. I would not try to hot rod a faster burning powder like Titegroup to those velocities. But yes, 1200 is warm but doable for a 180.

The above is true for jacketed bullets. Cast lead would not be my first choice to try to run at 1200.

arushus
11-14-2011, 21:13
You can safely get up to 1300fps with 800x...

21Carrier
11-14-2011, 21:16
I don't care what that guy says, SOMEONE messed with that chamber. I noticed something odd before I ever saw the chamber. When I saw the first picture of that smiled brass, it looks odd. Usually, Glocks produce a curved, SMILE when firing over pressure rounds. That one had some cloverleaf shape to it. SOMEONE hit that barrel with a Dremel. The marks are blatantly obvious. You can see the grinder marks. Sounds like over charged ammo combined with a messed up chamber. Since DT no longer makes rounds with 165gr Gold Dots, his ammo must have been old. Back then, DT actually loaded hot. Not no more.

CanyonMan
11-14-2011, 23:09
I don't care what that guy says, SOMEONE messed with that chamber. I noticed something odd before I ever saw the chamber. When I saw the first picture of that smiled brass, it looks odd. Usually, Glocks produce a curved, SMILE when firing over pressure rounds. That one had some cloverleaf shape to it. SOMEONE hit that barrel with a Dremel. The marks are blatantly obvious. You can see the grinder marks. Sounds like over charged ammo combined with a messed up chamber. Since DT no longer makes rounds with 165gr Gold Dots, his ammo must have been old. Back then, DT actually loaded hot. Not no more.



I agree...

There are definitely chatter marks where someone has allowed the dremel head to bump around on the ramp and going into the chamber.

May never know for sure, but it is a truly sloppy looking ramp and chamber.

Y'all know about my famous double charge factory load a few years ago. But man I love showin that bad boy.....:supergrin: OUCH ! :wow:


http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab256/yrag5951/stuff%20to%20share/pics002-1.jpg

http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab256/yrag5951/stuff%20to%20share/pics008.jpg

http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab256/yrag5951/stuff%20to%20share/pics018.jpg


My niece who is an SVU in Ohio, showed these pics to some of the guys on the firing line just before a shooting practice session (for a joke) and they lost focus ! haha.


Just to show what can happen in the wide world of guns and double charges...


Stay safe boys. ;)





CM

MinervaDoe
11-14-2011, 23:13
What was the temperature?
What altitude were you at?
Humidity?

21Carrier
11-14-2011, 23:41
I agree...

There are definitely chatter marks where someone has allowed the dremel head to bump around on the ramp and going into the chamber.

May never know for sure, but it is a truly sloppy looking ramp and chamber.

Y'all know about my famous double charge factory load a few years ago. But man I love showin that bad boy.....:supergrin: OUCH ! :wow:


http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab256/yrag5951/stuff%20to%20share/pics002-1.jpg

http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab256/yrag5951/stuff%20to%20share/pics008.jpg

http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab256/yrag5951/stuff%20to%20share/pics018.jpg


My niece who is an SVU in Ohio, showed these pics to some of the guys on the firing line just before a shooting practice session (for a joke) and they lost focus ! haha.


Just to show what can happen in the wide world of guns and double charges...


Stay safe boys. ;)





CM

Damn CM!!! I had no idea that was your gun! I have always loved that picture! It looks like some sort of dinosaur. I'm glad you're still with us. That one looked BAD!!!

CanyonMan
11-15-2011, 06:37
Damn CM!!! I had no idea that was your gun! I have always loved that picture! It looks like some sort of dinosaur. I'm glad you're still with us. That one looked BAD!!!



LOL !


Man it "almost" made gettin stomped on by an old knot headed bronc seem like a Sunday picnic. (not really but it did smart) ! :wow:

Naw, it hurt like the dickens and my hand was about every color of the rainbow, and I took some sharpnel to the face, and a good deal of parts were never found. Other than that, it wasn't bad ! :supergrin:

Does sorta look like T-Rex now that ya mention it....

Everytime I read a Kaboom thread I go and blow off the dust and post these pics. I got more, but these usually do. At least Winchester gave me a brand new G20SF out of the deal. This one that blew was NOTan SF.

Lesson learned. Shoot my own hand loads, and NEVER buy a used barrel from someone at a gun show 'for a spare' !!! It's the one that blew. Spare tires for the truck are great and needed. No more spare barrels for anything, unless they are all AM (and they are now).

Winchester never knew for sure if it was their round (silver tip) or a weakness (long story) in the chamber. We believe it was the latter, but will never know. Good folks they are, they just took the blame and gave me a new gun and 3 high cap mags, all straight from Glock. Stetson off to WW !


Well, I'll put the pics away, and save 'em for next time. Always someone who has not seen them, 'although' they have made their way all over the internet forums by other folks 'borrowing/sharing them,' over a few years. Ha.



Stay safe amigo !
Good shooting..









CM

TreyG-20
11-15-2011, 06:54
I still don't believe that it's the barrel as I have now seen four different gen 2 g20 chambers including mine an they all look the same. It had to be the ammo overloaded. Unless Swampfoxammo doesn't really load his ammo hot. Because my gen 2 has gone though quite a few of his rounds and this has not been an issue and my barrel is chamber is the same as the guys who just had a kb.

Taterhead
11-15-2011, 08:04
You can safely get up to 1300fps with 800x...

Not to argue the point, but getting to 1300 fps with 800-X means exceeding max manufacturer load data by a decent margin. Guys are doing this with ok results (not me with 800-X. Pressure signs way before that). The point I am making is that for new reloader, do not expect to get there without exceeding maximum load data for any powder. Not a good practice for new loaders. Hornady data is far greater than Hodgdon data, and even their max charge falls short of 1300.

Buffalo Bore and Swamp Fox are both exceeding 1300. They are hot. Both benefit from pressure testing equipment that us handloaders do not have.

Responding back to the question from mattwestm's question about 1200 fps in his short barreled G29: yes 1200 is doable. I would not suggest that 1300 is workable for everyday range work for a new loader.

Taterhead
11-15-2011, 08:18
[QUOTE=PBRLite;18161159]Fully Supported Lonewolf Barrel=Problem Avoided.[/ QUOTE]

Maybe. This could have been an ammo problem. With a bulge like the one in the picture there is no way that I would swap barrels and think gtg.

Granted, that was one messed up looking barrel. Nothing like my G20. I shoot Buffalo Bore (which is faster than DT) without the slightest smile - let alone a case distortion of that magnitude. If I saw a bulge like that from any load, I would not shoot it. Period. In any barrel.

Fully supported barrels are not fool proof. They blow up too with the wrong ammo.

CanyonMan
11-15-2011, 08:50
[QUOTE=PBRLite;18161159]Fully Supported Lonewolf Barrel=Problem Avoided.[/ QUOTE]

Maybe. This could have been an ammo problem. With a bulge like the one in the picture there is no way that I would swap barrels and think gtg.

Granted, that was one messed up looking barrel. Nothing like my G20. I shoot Buffalo Bore (which is faster than DT) without the slightest smile - let alone a case distortion of that magnitude. If I saw a bulge like that from any load, I would not shoot it. Period. In any barrel.

Fully supported barrels are not fool proof. They blow up too with the wrong ammo.



Hey Tater !

Amen !

That is correct. An AM barrel is not a fix all, or a 'License' to run bad ammo or ridiculously hot ammo through. They have benifits to be sure, but their still just barrels......





Stay safe amigo.








CM

Kegs
11-15-2011, 09:32
Fully supported barrels are not fool proof. They blow up too with the wrong ammo.

True, but they probably aren't going to blow up with ammo that is within the SAAMI specs for the cartridge.

I would not guarantee that about the Glock barrel.

Glock's feed ramp design is unnecessary AND unsafe.

Canyon Man's stock Glock barrel looks like a sliced banana. :supergrin:

CM - glad you didn't get hurt - Mucho respect.

Taterhead
11-15-2011, 09:41
[QUOTE=Taterhead;18163454]



Hey Tater !

Amen !

That is correct. An AM barrel is not a fix all, or a 'License' to run bad ammo or ridiculously hot ammo through. They have benifits to be sure, but their still just barrels......





Stay safe amigo.








CM

Hi CM!


Good to see you prowling around these pages again. Haven't "seen" you in a while. Those KB photos are sure good conversation starters. Works every time.

CanyonMan
11-15-2011, 09:54
[QUOTE=CanyonMan;18163549]

Hi CM!


Good to see you prowling around these pages again. Haven't "seen" you in a while. Those KB photos are sure good conversation starters. Works every time.



Thanks amigo, I appreciate that. Good to see and hear from you guys as well. I get a spot every now and then where I pop a flury of post, and then back to the real world... haha.

Yep, those pics always get a response of some kind... Ha.



Stay safe pard !










CM

CanyonMan
11-15-2011, 10:05
True, but they probably aren't going to blow up with ammo that is within the SAAMI specs for the cartridge.

I would not guarantee that about the Glock barrel.

Glock's feed ramp design is unnecessary AND unsafe.

Canyon Man's stock Glock barrel looks like a sliced banana. :supergrin:

CM - glad you didn't get hurt - Mucho respect.


Thanks ! All that was hurt was my hand some, but no biggie.

That 'barrel hood' did peel back like a banana, your right, and the flash in my face was like a stick of dynomite. I could not see anything for maybe 15/20 seconds.

Again, this factory WW silver tip I was playing with was either double charged or the chamber on the "used" spare barrel I bought had a hair line fracture. (very long story). We do believe (after our own examination, that it was the lousy barrel that who ever had it before me did who knows what through it. But then again, at this point we will never know. As I said, WW could not even figure it out in all their testing, and research. :dunno:

Just know there will be no more used barrels for me... :faint:



Stay safe !







CM

arushus
11-15-2011, 10:30
Not to argue the point, but getting to 1300 fps with 800-X means exceeding max manufacturer load data by a decent margin. Guys are doing this with ok results (not me with 800-X. Pressure signs way before that). The point I am making is that for new reloader, do not expect to get there without exceeding maximum load data for any powder. Not a good practice for new loaders. Hornady data is far greater than Hodgdon data, and even their max charge falls short of 1300.

Buffalo Bore and Swamp Fox are both exceeding 1300. They are hot. Both benefit from pressure testing equipment that us handloaders do not have.

Responding back to the question from mattwestm's question about 1200 fps in his short barreled G29: yes 1200 is doable. I would not suggest that 1300 is workable for everyday range work for a new loader.


I apologize, you are very much correct and thank you for pointing it out!

It is not with 800x, it is with longshot and bluedot that 180gr @1300fps can be done safely. My lee manual has 9.5gr of longshot making a 180gr fmj go 1287fps, and 11.0 gr of bluedot making a 180gr xtp go 1295, 14.5gr of accurate #9 yields 1290fps using a spr 180gr jhp...

That last load I got from accurate's data that they published in the 10mm loadbook.

*all loads are book max and should be worked up to very carefully*

Thanks for pointing that out!