Biggest mistakes and butt chewin' in FTO. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Rabbi
11-14-2011, 18:48
Something someone said on another thread sparked this one.

What were some of your biggest mistakes, dumbest blunders and worse ass chewings you had when you were going through your FTO.



I'll start with a funny...and scary one.

I was driving. I made a stop. Its night.


(this all goes down in less than 15 seconds)

I call in plate/description/location. The guy jumps out of the car and starts walking towards me. My FTO say (yells) "Get the @#$% out and take care of this!!!!"

I cant find the door handle fast enough and when I do, I am tangled in the damned seatbelt. I actually end up on my hands, on the ground, hanging out of the car with the driver standing over me.

My FTO jumped out about half way through my little idiots dance and was taking charge of the situation but had the driver had ill intent, I would have been fooooked.

I took a reaming for that but it was not half as bad as the story getting told to everyone. I was a "hanging asschad" or a "crown vic dingleberry"

BL33D 4 M3
11-14-2011, 18:59
All the standard hazing stuff...dildo under the back seat, Unitrol on position 3 & siren on when I start the car, "make sure you take the Chief to lunch the first week, he likes that..." :rofl:

collim1
11-14-2011, 19:38
I had a pretty lame FTO. I didn't have a chance to screw up in FTO cause all I did was routine crashes and reports.

After FTO....now thats another story. I spent quite a few hours in the Capt's office before I learned how to handle business.

Now I have made 200+ arrests in the last two years, prolly 1K citations and have not had a single complaint that I can remember.

ateamer
11-14-2011, 20:40
Field training went pretty smoothly for me. The only thing I remember that might be interesting was one afternoon when a GTA suspect foot bailed from a deputy, then took off on a bicycle. My FTO was driving, found him and cut him off. I knocked him off the bike with the car door as I opened it. We hooked him up and the sergeant, who had just rolled up, said we had to get him back to the original location, and to put the bike somewhere for the time being.

Well, I put the bike the only place nearby where no one would see it, but the suspect would know where it was so he could come retrieve it when he got released from jail. I picked it up and tossed it over a six-foot fence into the six-foot weeds.

I was later advised by my FTO that the sergeant said he liked my style, but that was probably not the best place to put the bike.

VA27
11-14-2011, 20:49
FTO?

When I went to work they gave me a gun, badge and a law book and told me to go forth and enforce the law. To be fair, the assistant chief did take me to the range to make sure that I knew which end of the pistol the bullet came out of. I worked 4 months before a slot came open in the academy.

Mistakes? There's an old saying, "Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement". OJT, the hard way.

KiloBravo
11-14-2011, 20:51
Field training went pretty smoothly for me. The only thing I remember that might be interesting was one afternoon when a GTA suspect foot bailed from a deputy, then took off on a bicycle. My FTO was driving, found him and cut him off. I knocked him off the bike with the car door as I opened it. We hooked him up and the sergeant, who had just rolled up, said we had to get him back to the original location, and to put the bike somewhere for the time being.

Well, I put the bike the only place nearby where no one would see it, but the suspect would know where it was so he could come retrieve it when he got released from jail. I picked it up and tossed it over a six-foot fence into the six-foot weeds.

I was later advised by my FTO that the sergeant said he liked my style, but that was probably not the best place to put the bike.

Off topic and this might be a dumb question coming from somebody who has not stared field training yet...but was the reason for the Sgts request so that the perp could be identified and so the bike could be collected later as evidence?

slama683
11-14-2011, 21:20
First domestic call. Had been through the academy, and was sure that all domestics were just like they showed us: 1. Find the aggressor, which will be the uninjured one. 2. Arrest the aggressor.

Got on scene, and found both parties had been beating the crap outta each other with fists, lamps, and telephones. I just sorta vapor locked, because I had been assured that on a domestic, there is always one party that is the abuser, and one party that is the victim.

I sat there spinnin' the wheels trying to figure out who hit who first, before my Sgt., an old school Denver cop, came to my rescue and clarified that these two were frequent flyers, and typically both go to jail. Problem solved.

Once pulled up in front of the PD after vacuuming the car at the car wash, and saw the patrol LT. Started railing to him about the dirty SOBs who were leaving french fries and food wrappers in the car for me to clean. LT told me that, before I got all indignant, would I mind taking the camera bag off of the roof of the car and not leaving it up there while driving around.

pal2511
11-14-2011, 21:26
First domestic call. Had been through the academy, and was sure that all domestics were just like they showed us: 1. Find the aggressor, which will be the uninjured one. 2. Arrest the aggressor.

Got on scene, and found both parties had been beating the crap outta each other with fists, lamps, and telephones. I just sorta vapor locked, because I had been assured that on a domestic, there is always one party that is the abuser, and one party that is the victim.

I sat there spinnin' the wheels trying to figure out who hit who first, before my Sgt., an old school Denver cop, came to my rescue and clarified that these two were frequent flyers, and typically both go to jail. Problem solved.

Once pulled up in front of the PD after vacuuming the car at the car wash, and saw the patrol LT. Started railing to him about the dirty SOBs who were leaving french fries and food wrappers in the car for me to clean. LT told me that, before I got all indignant, would I mind taking the camera bag off of the roof of the car and not leaving it up there while driving around.

Sounds like something I would do.

I remember the first month or two after I started I left the garage door open for about an hour. Oops.

Another time within the first six months I picked up my boss and backed the car up and I heard something hit the back of my car. TUrns out I left my coffee cup on the lightbar. Ooops.

Now as a FTO I don't really have any good stories where I chewed someone out. ....

ateamer
11-14-2011, 22:09
Off topic and this might be a dumb question coming from somebody who has not stared field training yet...but was the reason for the Sgts request so that the perp could be identified and so the bike could be collected later as evidence?
Nah, he just wanted us to get the suspect back to the original deputy and get things moving along because it was really busy.

Sharkey
11-14-2011, 22:35
No major mistakes just stupid stuff.

Burned my pants on a flare in 1st phase.
Didn't take enough control on one my first calls as primary
Passed a slow driver in the right lane running code.

As an FTO, I had a recruit fall asleep on dayshift and I was really upset about that.
One recruit stated I was scarey, I'm 5'4 135 on a good day.
One recruit recalls me drawing my ASP on a foot pursuit in Home Depot Lot. I told him I anticipate a fight once I catch him.

I hit a Diabetic with my ASP but I swore he was drunk. Of course I had 9 years on the job at this point. :supergrin:

KiloBravo
11-14-2011, 22:38
Nah, he just wanted us to get the suspect back to the original deputy and get things moving along because it was really busy.

Roger that. Makes sense. I was just curious. Thanks for he response! :wavey:

msu_grad_121
11-14-2011, 22:39
Only real major mistake that comes to mind was dealing with an OWI suspect while at the hospital. He was cuffed, sitting on the gurney, actively cursing at the other officers, when I chose to step in and "be the calming influence." Stood right in front of him and started explaining why he couldn't act that way when...you guessed it, he kicked me square in the no-no button. Lesson learned, and the guys got a kick out of it. No pun intended.

m2hmghb
11-14-2011, 23:00
Only real major mistake that comes to mind was dealing with an OWI suspect while at the hospital. He was cuffed, sitting on the gurney, actively cursing at the other officers, when I chose to step in and "be the calming influence." Stood right in front of him and started explaining why he couldn't act that way when...you guessed it, he kicked me square in the no-no button. Lesson learned, and the guys got a kick out of it. No pun intended.

I bet they were busting your balls about that one for quite a while:whistling:

msu_grad_121
11-15-2011, 00:35
I bet they were busting your balls about that one for quite a while:whistling:

Har DEE har har! It's weird, they were the ones laughing, but I was the one doubled over... Hmmm

EMTCOP
11-15-2011, 00:57
My first department was very small and my FTO was a K-9 officer. Long story short, we were searching for a DV suspect in a vacant house next door to where the incident occurred. We entered the house and I saw him hiding in a hall closet that had the door removed. My FTO and his dog saw
him at the same time, and the dog started barking at him while my FTO was giving him commands to prone out. In my excitement I stepped in front of the dog, which promptly bit me on my right butt cheek. My pride
was more damaged than my butt, but I did have to get another set of uniform pants.

nikerret
11-15-2011, 01:08
My first department was very small and my FTO was a K-9 officer. Long story short, we were searching for a DV suspect in a vacant house next door to where the incident occurred. We entered the house and I saw him hiding in a hall closet that had the door removed. My FTO and his dog saw
him at the same time, and the dog started barking at him while my FTO was giving him commands to prone out. In my excitement I stepped in front of the dog, which promptly bit me on my right butt cheek. My pride
was more damaged than my butt, but I did have to get another set of uniform pants.

Because of the dog's teeth ripping cloth or your internals becoming external? :rofl:

S.O.Interceptor
11-15-2011, 01:12
I was driving. I made a stop. Its night.

(this all goes down in less than 15 seconds)

I call in plate/description/location. The guy jumps out of the car and starts walking towards me. My FTO say (yells) "Get the @#$% out and take care of this!!!!"

I cant find the door handle fast enough and when I do, I am tangled in the damned seatbelt. I actually end up on my hands, on the ground, hanging out of the car with the driver standing over me.


One way to solve this and assure it never occurs again is to call in location, LP, and vehicle prior to lighting up a suspect. As they vehicle slows, unbuckle. That way when you both stop all you have to do is step out. If they have ill intent, you won't have a microphone in your hand and be belted in. I know sometimes the LP isn't readable, but give all available info possible before initiating anything.

This is also effective because if you hit your lights and they evade, you've given dispatch no information and will have to ramble it all out(if you've got any of it) as your pulse races and your adrenaline flows. And that's never good.

If you give all info before activating your lights, then they evade, all you have to do is follow and give updated info, but you don't have to start at the beginning.

Also, your location in the most important thing in the world. ALWAYS GIVE YOUR LOCATION FIRST!! If we know where you are, we can send help. If we only know an LP, and something happens to you before you give a location, no one is coming to help you. We can always pull video to get an LP later, or at least a vehicle description. I have been heard yelling at my trainees over the radio during their stops because they want to say "unit 1234, traffic, white Chevy Malibu occupied 4 times with Texas LP 'ABC1234'" and write a book on the radio rather than tell anyone listening where the hell they are. The proper way to do it is: "unit 1234 traffic, 1st St. & Adam Blvd, with Texas 'ABC1234', it's a white Chevy Malibu occupied 4 times."

Some agencies/FTOs are stuck in the past and want you to activate lights, wait till the car stops, assume the people will calmly wait for you, pick up the radio, call it in, then get out of the car. Kick these people in the balls and tell them to get with the program. It's dangerous and stupid.

South Fla
11-15-2011, 01:40
Now I have made 200+ arrests in the last two years, prolly 1K citations and have not had a single complaint that I can remember.

[Playing The Devil's Advocate here. :supergrin:]

How many arrests have you made that were NOT from a traffic stop and/or searching the vehicle and finding a roach in the ashtray or seeds in the carpet?

You can teach a monkey to write traffic tickets. Please don't turn into a one-dimensional po-po. Learn how to catch bad guys without chasing tailights all the time. That is important, but branch out with your opportunities.


Now, my story. I do not remember the incident, but I do remember that aftermath.

Once, I made a Captain soooo mad, that when I entered the station for afternoon roll call, he screamed [yes, screamed...not yelled, but screamed] down the hallway for me to get my self in his office....NOW!

When I cleared the doorway, he slammed the door to his office so hard, that all of his pictures, plaques and awards [including his FBI NA plaque] came off the wall and crashed to the floor, making a spectacular mess.

After that, whatever I had done to cause the screaming and slamming paled in comparison to the mess on the floor of his office.

Needless to say, I went to the 2pm-12am shift, with Monday-Wednesday off-days for about 18 months.

South Fla
11-15-2011, 01:43
Also, your location in the most important thing in the world. ALWAYS GIVE YOUR LOCATION FIRST!! If we know where you are, we can send help.

My wife is a dispatcher of now 20+ years and she preaches LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION....the rest she can get later.

GTownGlockMan
11-15-2011, 03:44
My worst butt chewin came from a possibly 55 subject in the drive through of one of our McDonalds. As another officer is running the driver through SFST, there I stand, just watching as the passenger reaches back into the car through the open window to get his smokes. Could have been getting his Glock for all I knew. Needless to say I've never had that problem again. As long as you learn from yours and others screw-ups and nobody got hurt you'll make it through and be a better officer because of it. I've been through 2 FTO programs now with the 2 departments I've worked for and I never once had to be counseled more than once on a mistake I've made. In fact I had no major issues at all this last time because I remember when I screw up and I'm always pretty hard on myself about it right or wrong.


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Panzergrenadier1979
11-15-2011, 08:17
One way to solve this and assure it never occurs again is to call in location, LP, and vehicle prior to lighting up a suspect. As they vehicle slows, unbuckle. That way when you both stop all you have to do is step out. If they have ill intent, you won't have a microphone in your hand and be belted in. I know sometimes the LP isn't readable, but give all available info possible before initiating anything.

This is also effective because if you hit your lights and they evade, you've given dispatch no information and will have to ramble it all out(if you've got any of it) as your pulse races and your adrenaline flows. And that's never good.

If you give all info before activating your lights, then they evade, all you have to do is follow and give updated info, but you don't have to start at the beginning.

Also, your location in the most important thing in the world. ALWAYS GIVE YOUR LOCATION FIRST!! If we know where you are, we can send help. If we only know an LP, and something happens to you before you give a location, no one is coming to help you. We can always pull video to get an LP later, or at least a vehicle description. I have been heard yelling at my trainees over the radio during their stops because they want to say "unit 1234, traffic, white Chevy Malibu occupied 4 times with Texas LP 'ABC1234'" and write a book on the radio rather than tell anyone listening where the hell they are. The proper way to do it is: "unit 1234 traffic, 1st St. & Adam Blvd, with Texas 'ABC1234', it's a white Chevy Malibu occupied 4 times."

Some agencies/FTOs are stuck in the past and want you to activate lights, wait till the car stops, assume the people will calmly wait for you, pick up the radio, call it in, then get out of the car. Kick these people in the balls and tell them to get with the program. It's dangerous and stupid.

I completely agree.

Our issue is that dispatch becomes extremely cranky if they have to type down info that is out of order from their computer screen. We call out traffic:

"County 1234 traffic. Pennsylvania registration ABC-5678. 6500 block of Main Street. Red Honda Civic, 2 occupants."

We do it this way because this is the order that the dispatcher fills in the boxes on his/her computer screen. :steamed: Needless, to say, aside from NOT entering the location first, we also usually have to have the vehicle come to a stop first because it's very difficult to pull over, in the dark, while reading the registration.

We have a couple dispatchers who are very good at what they do. We also have some who are completely rigid and unwilling to adapt to unexpected circumstances. I once had a dispatcher refuse to do a warrant check for me using a person's driver's license number. The problem was, the subject (A known Megan's Law offender and convicted felon) was standing 3 feet from me. I did NOT want to tip the subject off that I was checking on him by giving out his name and date of birth on the radio. Thus, I asked the dispatcher to "check File 5 by Op number, please." The Adam Henry freaking refused! Twice! I even advised dispatch that I was "95" (out with a subject) and he STILL refused and demanded "name and date of birth" like a GD robot. :steamed:

I ended up making a phone call to his supervisor.

merlynusn
11-15-2011, 10:18
One of my worst mistakes (but didn't involve a royal butt chewing) was when I was on a traffic stop. I was talking with the driver and a thug came walking up and I saw him and watched him. I did not direct him away from my stop and he walked close enough to me that I actually had to move to avoid being brushed by him.

Needless to say, my PTO was not pleased. As he stated... The primary threat had just moved from the car to the guy walking. Based on many factors, the occupants of vehicle and the guy did not know each other (and it was obvious). The guy was just testing me to see what I'd do. So afterward my PTO and I "discussed" it and didn't have that problem again.

I also had another one where I didn't jump out of the car right away on a stop. We talked about it and a couple days later, I had a similar stop and I beat the PTO out of the car and handled the driver.

Trigger Finger
11-15-2011, 14:36
A probationer and TO respond to a 211 in progress at a bank. Suspects are gone on arrival and as a report is being taken, after a crime broadcast, a bomb threat is phoned into the bank.
The bank manager wants the bank evacuated till a search can be conducted. The TO tell the probationer to ASK everyone to exit the bank. People are not responding after several requests. People are yelling " I have been in line for 20 minuets, I'm not loosing my place".

The probationer jumps on top of the bank counter and yells "Their could be a BOMB in the bank, get out NOW'

EVERYONE stampedes out of the bank, screaming and running as if to get the last position on a life raft on the Titanic. An old man entering the bank is trampled by about 25 people running out in a blind panic. People are tripping over the old man and a pile of downed people form.

The TO is yelling at the probationer and has to look away as he giggles.


One TO telling the probationer that other TO, who is a 6 foot 4 inch male black, likes to be called "Buba". I'll never get over that one. :whistling:

PinkoCommie
11-15-2011, 14:51
I completely agree.

Our issue is that dispatch becomes extremely cranky if they have to type down info that is out of order from their computer screen. We call out traffic:

"County 1234 traffic. Pennsylvania registration ABC-5678. 6500 block of Main Street. Red Honda Civic, 2 occupants."

We do it this way because this is the order that the dispatcher fills in the boxes on his/her computer screen.

Same here. Pain in the ass.

Hunca Munca
11-15-2011, 16:15
A probationer and TO respond to a 211 in progress at a bank. Suspects are gone on arrival and as a report is being taken, after a crime broadcast, a bomb threat is phoned into the bank.
The bank manager wants the bank evacuated till a search can be conducted. The TO tell the probationer to ASK everyone to exit the bank. People are not responding after several requests. People are yelling " I have been in line for 20 minuets, I'm not loosing my place".

The probationer jumps on top of the bank counter and yells "Their could be a BOMB in the bank, get out NOW'

EVERYONE stampedes out of the bank, screaming and running as if to get the last position on a life raft on the Titanic. An old man entering the bank is trampled by about 25 people running out in a blind panic. People are tripping over the old man and a pile of downed people form.

The TO is yelling at the probationer and has to look away as he giggles.


One TO telling the probationer that other TO, who is a 6 foot 4 inch male black, likes to be called "Buba". I'll never get over that one. :whistling:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

lndshark
11-15-2011, 17:47
I'm a reserve but work the road and had to go through FTO. My biggest screw-up was calling in a pursuit when I shouldn't have. My FTO and I had just witnessed a hit and run that occurred about a half-block away from us. As we drove to the scene, both cars took off, the victim chasing the vehicle that struck him. We followed them immediately. The lead car was running stop signs and driving erratically through a residential neighborhood. I could only surmise that the victim simply wanted the license plate of the car that had struck his. I should not that he was obeying all traffic laws. Well, enough of that nonsense...I lit them up and the victim immediately pulled over but the suspect car did not. Instead, it ran two more stop signs, one at an intersection that lead onto our main street (a U.S. highway). A few blips of the siren and nothing. I called in: "five three, we're in pursuit!" My FTO grabbed the mic from my hand and spoke into it: "five three, we are not, I repeat, NOT in a pursuit...my partner just got a little excited!" We eventually stopped the car (full of 19-20 year old "kids") and all was well. The poor victim was so shaken that he needed medical attention at the scene. What had happened? Well, these "kids" (old enough to know, IMHO) were throwing eggs at cars. They tossed one at this fellow's car and the sound scared him so badly that he jerked the wheel which caused his car to swerve into theirs. He was so pissed that the kids fled he went after them.

After all was said and done, I was told of the legal (liability) ramifications of calling in a pursuit versus a failure to yield. If the driver of the lead car had crashed into someone during our "pursuit", we would have faced dire consequences. After a brief refresher of our pursuit and duty driving policies and procedures, I'm good to go now.

Oh, if that wasn't enough, I still get the dash-cam video (with audio!) emailed to me on occasion and still shots from said dash cam with cute comments scribbled on it in my mailbox :rofl:

collim1
11-15-2011, 18:33
[Playing The Devil's Advocate here. :supergrin:]

How many arrests have you made that were NOT from a traffic stop and/or searching the vehicle and finding a roach in the ashtray or seeds in the carpet?

You can teach a monkey to write traffic tickets. Please don't turn into a one-dimensional po-po. Learn how to catch bad guys without chasing tailights all the time. That is important, but branch out with your opportunities.


Now, my story. I do not remember the incident, but I do remember that aftermath.

Once, I made a Captain soooo mad, that when I entered the station for afternoon roll call, he screamed [yes, screamed...not yelled, but screamed] down the hallway for me to get my self in his office....NOW!

When I cleared the doorway, he slammed the door to his office so hard, that all of his pictures, plaques and awards [including his FBI NA plaque] came off the wall and crashed to the floor, making a spectacular mess.

After that, whatever I had done to cause the screaming and slamming paled in comparison to the mess on the floor of his office.

Needless to say, I went to the 2pm-12am shift, with Monday-Wednesday off-days for about 18 months.

The majority of my arrests are from traffic stops. We have a burglary problem in my area, so traffic enforcement is a good deterrent and a way to catch burglars. I am not a taillight chaser like a trooper, but I am very pro-active in traffic. And not just to write tickets, I am very nosy and looking closely at every stop.

DaBigBR
11-15-2011, 18:36
I'm a reserve but work the road and had to go through FTO. My biggest screw-up was calling in a pursuit when I shouldn't have. My FTO and I had just witnessed a hit and run that occurred about a half-block away from us. As we drove to the scene, both cars took off, the victim chasing the vehicle that struck him. We followed them immediately. The lead car was running stop signs and driving erratically through a residential neighborhood. I could only surmise that the victim simply wanted the license plate of the car that had struck his. I should not that he was obeying all traffic laws. Well, enough of that nonsense...I lit them up and the victim immediately pulled over but the suspect car did not. Instead, it ran two more stop signs, one at an intersection that lead onto our main street (a U.S. highway). A few blips of the siren and nothing. I called in: "five three, we're in pursuit!" My FTO grabbed the mic from my hand and spoke into it: "five three, we are not, I repeat, NOT in a pursuit...my partner just got a little excited!" We eventually stopped the car (full of 19-20 year old "kids") and all was well. The poor victim was so shaken that he needed medical attention at the scene. What had happened? Well, these "kids" (old enough to know, IMHO) were throwing eggs at cars. They tossed one at this fellow's car and the sound scared him so badly that he jerked the wheel which caused his car to swerve into theirs. He was so pissed that the kids fled he went after them.

After all was said and done, I was told of the legal (liability) ramifications of calling in a pursuit versus a failure to yield. If the driver of the lead car had crashed into someone during our "pursuit", we would have faced dire consequences. After a brief refresher of our pursuit and duty driving policies and procedures, I'm good to go now.

Oh, if that wasn't enough, I still get the dash-cam video (with audio!) emailed to me on occasion and still shots from said dash cam with cute comments scribbled on it in my mailbox :rofl:

I'm not trying to nitpick, but I guess I don't necessarily think you did anything wrong. What you say on the radio has absolutely zero bearing, in terms of civil liability, on whether or not you are in a "pursuit" or not. The actions of the suspect vehicle and your re-actions to it are the deciding factors.

Some agencies have this whimsical belief that by merely saying that something is or is not occurring or not filing the appropriate charge that it never was. Examples:

1) A neighboring agency has a very restrictive policy. One of their officers gets in to a pursuit with a vehicle for a traffic violation, which is out of their policy. After a mile or two and before encountering stop sticks, the suspect vehicle stops. A felony stop is conducted. Multiple officers from different agencies responded to assist. Disposition: driver of fleeing vehicle cited for not having a driver's license. That's it.

2) Different agency initiates a pursuit and pursues suspect for something like ten or fifteen minutes. Speeds are low, but driver is "willfully failing to stop" and is observed dumping what is later found to be narcotics out of the vehicle. Our agency deploys stop sticks, which are struck, and the "pursuit" ends. Disposition: driver charged with a variety of charges but NOT Eluding because they (the other agency) did not want it to be a "pursuit", although it met all of the statutory elements.

I'm getting on my soap box here, but both of these examples bug me a bit because they resulted in other officers and the public being placed in harm's way in their attempt to assist the "pursuing" officer.

collim1
11-15-2011, 18:59
My agency has on numerous occasions terminated a pursuit that started as a stop for a minor traffic violation that turned out to be a suspect in a felony from another jurisdiction.

I understand the liability, but I think a strict "no pursuit" policy is a joke.

msu_grad_121
11-15-2011, 19:30
My agency has on numerous occasions terminated a pursuit that started as a stop for a minor traffic violation that turned out to be a suspect in a felony from another jurisdiction.

I understand the liability, but I think a strict "no pursuit" policy is a joke.

Amen. I understand that liability is indeed a real thing, and some people are just looking for the police payday, but still, not pursuing, or calling it something else, is just downright ridiculous, in my opinion.

Seems like a few years ago in MI there was a real bad PIA that stemmed from a chase initiated at a traffic stop. IIRC, the fleeing car t-boned another and killed at least one person inside. As soon as the "he wouldn't have been running if you hadn't been chasing him" and "this innocent person died for a simple traffic matter" crowds got going, pursuits in MI went way down. It got so bad that one of the better known agencies won't chase for ANYTHING and tried to write up a couple officers for deploying stop sticks when an adjacent agency was pursuing into their border.

It's just pathetic to dance around and call it something it's not, or to bar officers from doing their jobs based on fear of lawsuit or what have you. If you're following this person in order to try to get them to stop, it's a pursuit. If you don't want me to pursue, why did you swear me in and give me the car with the pretty X-mas tree lights? It makes no sense. :dunno:

trdvet
11-15-2011, 20:09
[Playing The Devil's Advocate here. :supergrin:]


You can teach a monkey to write traffic tickets. Please don't turn into a one-dimensional po-po.

O noes u didant!!!!!!!

PinkoCommie
11-15-2011, 21:28
O noes u didant!!!!!!!

http://gifs.gifbin.com/6401703g69.gif

EMTCOP
11-15-2011, 23:12
Because of the dog's teeth ripping cloth or your internals becoming external? :rofl:

The pants, THIS time!!! :)

Newcop761
11-15-2011, 23:14
You can teach a monkey to write traffic tickets.

With apologies to all of us monkeys...


A tourist visiting Los Angeles walked into a pet shop and was looking at
the animals on display. While he was there, a Sgt. from Los Angeles Police Department walked in and said to the shopkeeper, "I'll take a Patrol monkey, please."

The shopkeeper nodded, went over to a cage at the side of the shop and
took out a monkey. He fit it with a collar and leash, handed it to the
sergeant, saying, "That'll be $1,000."

The Sgt. paid and walked out with his monkey.

Startled, the tourist went over to the shopkeeper and said, "That was
a very expensive monkey. Most of them are only a few hundred dollars.
Why did it cost so much?"

The shopkeeper answered, "Ah, that monkey can fire Expert with all
small arms, write 20 tickets a month, and is certified in Small Unit
Tactics -- well worth the money!

The tourist looked at the monkey in another cage.

"That one's even more expensive! $10,000!

What does it do?" "Oh, that one's a POST Certified Deputy Sheriff
Patrol monkey; it can instruct other monkeys in Basic Firearms Skills,
Counter Terrorism Training, Physical Training, Small Unit Tactics and
investigative techniques, and even type. All the really useful stuff,"
said the shopkeeper.

The tourist looked around for a little longer and saw a third monkey
in a cage of its own. The price tag around its neck read $50,000. He
gasped to the shopkeeper, "That one costs more than all the others put
together! What on earth does it do?"

The shopkeeper replied, "Well, I haven't actually seen it do anything,
but it says it's a FBI agent."

rookie1
11-16-2011, 10:44
We have a couple dispatchers who are very good at what they do. We also have some who are completely rigid and unwilling to adapt to unexpected circumstances. I once had a dispatcher refuse to do a warrant check for me using a person's driver's license number. The problem was, the subject (A known Megan's Law offender and convicted felon) was standing 3 feet from me. I did NOT want to tip the subject off that I was checking on him by giving out his name and date of birth on the radio. Thus, I asked the dispatcher to "check File 5 by Op number, please." The Adam Henry freaking refused! Twice! I even advised dispatch that I was "95" (out with a subject) and he STILL refused and demanded "name and date of birth" like a GD robot. :steamed:

I ended up making a phone call to his supervisor.

We had/have a dispatcher that was given a warrant to enter by the supervisor dispatcher that he was not too fond of. He ended up waiting until she left for the day and then waited for another 5 hours to enter it. Warrant was given to him at around 1300 and he entered it around 1800. The warrant was for stalking that the suspect was enroute to another city to stalk but they would not pick him up until the warrant was entered. He got 2 days off.

DaBigBR
11-16-2011, 11:37
We had/have a dispatcher that was given a warrant to enter by the supervisor dispatcher that he was not too fond of. He ended up waiting until she left for the day and then waited for another 5 hours to enter it. Warrant was given to him at around 1300 and he entered it around 1800. The warrant was for stalking that the suspect was enroute to another city to stalk but they would not pick him up until the warrant was entered. He got 2 days off.

Which one was that? The one that worked days, the one that worked evenings, or the one that worked late nights? I could actually see it being any of them, since none of them liked the supervisor. I never had a problem with the three male dispatchers that came from your place.

Panzergrenadier1979
11-16-2011, 13:36
My worst, non-administrative, FTO screw-up was when I'd been on the job 3 months and I had just started driving solo.

Dispatch calls out an in-progress robbery call involving a man with a gun at a local convenience store. I was the first on the scene and, without thinking, drew my weapon and charged right inside. I cleared the store all by my lonesome without waiting for any back-up. :whistling:

My FTO was quite displeased about this and we had a little chat later.

South Fla
11-16-2011, 14:53
The majority of my arrests are from traffic stops. We have a burglary problem in my area, so traffic enforcement is a good deterrent and a way to catch burglars. I am not a taillight chaser like a trooper, but I am very pro-active in traffic. And not just to write tickets, I am very nosy and looking closely at every stop.

Respectfully, I disagree.

I had a conversation after catching a young perp in a storage shed at an apartment complex that he had recently broken in to and after the arrest went something like this:

Me: What are you doing breaking in here? Kinda dumb wasn't it?

Perp: Yeah, I guess it was.

Me: Why'd you do it then?

Perp: I thought I could get away with it because I seen that other cop up on the highway with a car stopped and I knew he was gonna be there for a while. I didn't know you were working tonight.....

Goldstar225
11-16-2011, 18:54
Put me in the camp that says traffic enforcement is part of an active officer's bag of tools, along with terry stops and just getting out to talk to people. A crook has to travel from his home base to his target area and back. We can hope to catch him in the act, during his travels, or during a follow up investigation.

rookie1
11-16-2011, 21:25
Which one was that? The one that worked days, the one that worked evenings, or the one that worked late nights? I could actually see it being any of them, since none of them liked the supervisor. I never had a problem with the three male dispatchers that came from your place.


Jansen.

Agent6-3/8
11-19-2011, 09:29
FTO went pretty smooth for me. Any issues I had were with slight breachs of unofficial department etiquette. The place was heavy on BS (especially the treating boots like scum BS) and light on common sense.

Example...I had one officer get pissed at me because, following the direction of my FTO, I radioed him and told him he could back it down that were were 10-4. No need for him to break his neck backing us up where we were ok, right? We didn't see it that way and got all hot and bothered. :upeyes:

Just after getting off FTO I got an ass ripping for going home at the end of my shift instead of staying out for an OT detail that I was not going to get paid for anyway...

As part of a collective ass chewing (with 2 other boots)we were told (scream and yelling) by our Sgt. we were working too much traffic amongst other crap. That one really floored me. I couldn't believe it...two nights before I made several drug related felony arrests based off a traffic stop for a busted headlight and here I was getting my ass chewed for doing what had lead to some of my best solo work. Never could figure that one out. Everyone from the Captain down to our fellow officer had no complaints with our work. (and told us so)

PinkoCommie
11-19-2011, 09:45
As part of a collective ass chewing (with 2 other boots)we were told (scream and yelling) by our Sgt. we were working too much traffic amongst other crap. That one really floored me. I couldn't believe it...two nights before I made several drug related felony arrests based off a traffic stop for a busted headlight and here I was getting my ass chewed for doing what had lead to some of my best solo work. Never could figure that one out. Everyone from the Captain down to our fellow officer had no complaints with our work. (and told us so)

Some people just feel threatened by self-motivated, competent subordinates, y'know?

merlynusn
11-19-2011, 10:01
As part of a collective ass chewing (with 2 other boots)we were told (scream and yelling) by our Sgt. we were working too much traffic amongst other crap. That one really floored me. I couldn't believe it...two nights before I made several drug related felony arrests based off a traffic stop for a busted headlight and here I was getting my ass chewed for doing what had lead to some of my best solo work. Never could figure that one out. Everyone from the Captain down to our fellow officer had no complaints with our work. (and told us so)

It's because drugs aren't a Part 1 offense. Nevermind they lead to Part 1 offenses as they commit crimes to support their habit. But when our guys to bonkers and get a ton of drugs, they pretty much tell them to back it down. The unspoken reason is it doesn't help them at CompStat.

South Fla
11-20-2011, 13:56
Put me in the camp that says traffic enforcement is part of an active officer's bag of tools, along with terry stops and just getting out to talk to people. A crook has to travel from his home base to his target area and back. We can hope to catch him in the act, during his travels, or during a follow up investigation.

And may I add that deterrence is also part of the bag of tricks also.

Bad guys watch you and know what you do. They know your habits (coffee at the 7-11 at 2300 hrs, dinner/breakfast at 0400 hrs) and they know who is on shift.

All I am saying is don't be one-dimensional and break your habits.

Working traffic is not the end-all-to-be-all in law enforcement.

larry_minn
11-20-2011, 23:12
Well I am NOT a LEO, I was hired, got messed up (in a nasty car accident) before I started. :(
The city I was hired at. Well the Cheif knew me well. I had done some "work" in past. Fill in at emergencies, when single Officer on duty was called away for family. (his wife went into premature labor).....

Anyway new Officer had just finished (their version of FTO) Well the Cheif had some concerns, but he (the Cheif) was going out of state. So he asked me to ride along and "help out" (I have posted this before)

So we are driving around and neighboring city Officer calls about a speeding car that drove thru his city in mid 70s in 30. (he had his hands full, could not just drop and chase) So he called us. New Officer asks me. I suggest we get to road the Officer said van was comming on. Wait and see.
Yep here it comes and he locks it in mid 50s in 30. Hit lights and van keeps going, finally stops but in a VERY strange way. (on point of a intersection) So van is at 45 degrees to main/side road/us. Officer is calling it in and driver of van comes running back. I tell Officer, nothing so I open door and "verbally" stop him. (note he is on cell phone loudly) Back/forth/won't hang up/ Officer finally off radio/I step back. He does NOT get driver off cell, back in van, check out van, Basicly says "slow it down" and lets them go.....


I ask him WTF that was? (ok I was very polite) Remember I am NOT a LEO. Well a county Deputy calls "enroute" and the other city Officer also. They set up a meeting and I walk off to "water some bricks" and they chew his out. I come back and Deputy says "who is that" Local Officer from other town knows me, IDs me, says I am ok and they keep chewing on new guy....


I think what KILLED his career is the other small town Officer was going to give the driver a ticket. He observed infraction, IDed driver, had address (from our kinda traffic stop) But this guy was known "unfriendly" to LEO. The Deputy said he had "interacted" with driver and if he was there it was likely to esculate... So this small town Officer looks at new guy I was riding with (in full uniform) to me and asks if I am carrying/would back him up. I said I would and we left.

To have "brother" Officers pick a civilian who can't pass physical course of POST over you......

Next week he is driving a milk truck.