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post-apocalyptic
11-14-2011, 22:12
Ever since I got my first couple boxes of Underwood 10mm ammo, I've been quite impressed with it, you cannot beat the power they offer for the price in factory ammo, not even close. Underwood 10mm is more powerful than most BB and DT loads, for Remington UMC prices.

Anyway, I've been excited to see when they would add to their selection of 10mm loads and today I noticed this product on their webpage "coming soon": https://www.underwoodammo.com/shop/index.cfm?carttoken=72W1CPV111411085624&action=ViewDetails&ItemID=152&Category=19

135gr nosler jhp @ ~1600fps for $27.71/50? Fuuuuuuck yeah!! :smoking:

:dancingbanana:

If Underwood keeps it up, they will dominate the full-power 10mm market, and, considering the difference in price between their stuff and BB, DT, etc.. I don't see that as a bad thing.

arushus
11-14-2011, 22:36
I dont understand how theyre able to price like that...they gotta be taking a loss on 10mm just to get the business, I dunno how else to explain it. That, or they are buying in some ridiculous bulk amounts!

post-apocalyptic
11-14-2011, 22:42
I dont understand how theyre able to price like that...they gotta be taking a loss on 10mm just to get the business, I dunno how else to explain it. That, or they are buying in some ridiculous bulk amounts!

Bulk purchasing certainly plays a part. You have noticed the rest of their website, right? ;)

ETA: they've actually lowered the prices on their other 10mm since I bought mine a few weeks ago.

21Carrier
11-14-2011, 23:07
Looks like some great stuff for the average 10mm shooter. Has anyone chronographed their ammo? I'd like to see if it's really making full velocity. Also, it somewhat scares me that they are pushing out full-power ammo in what must be mass quantities. To make ammo that cheap, they must be pumping it out automatically. With full power charges, that could cause issues.

post-apocalyptic
11-14-2011, 23:25
Looks like some great stuff for the average 10mm shooter. Has anyone chronographed their ammo? I'd like to see if it's really making full velocity. Also, it somewhat scares me that they are pushing out full-power ammo in what must be mass quantities. To make ammo that cheap, they must be pumping it out automatically. With full power charges, that could cause issues.

Underwood's claimed velocities are proven:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deEmzTPVj-o

I thought more people had seen this guy's videos. Apparently not. I recommend watching several of them and examining his spreadsheet. The data's all there, and particularly applicable to Glock 10mm pistols.

Go ahead and look around. Underwood sells ammo in dozens of calibers and I've never read of a problem with their products. Reviews are all glowing. It appears they really do carefully load everything they sell, (as they claim to).

I've fired a few hundred rnds of Underwood 10mm now without a single problem or even a hint of overpressure, so I'll be the forum guinea pig. :supergrin: I'm backordering a couple hundred rnds of Underwood 135gr nosler, and I never backorder anything!

21Carrier
11-14-2011, 23:39
I saw that guy's videos back about a year ago. I didn't realize he was still making new ones. Obviously, this one is new. That's awesome that their ammo makes velocity and is cheap. Their bullet selection is the one area that could be improved. Those are Zero bullets in the cheap-o rounds, and the Golden Sabers are not ideal, especially at those speeds. The 135gr Nosler JHPs will be a good option.

Watching that video and reexamining his spreadsheet reminds me how crappy Double Tap is. They should get sued for their lies. What crap. I hate false advertisement.

post-apocalyptic
11-14-2011, 23:55
I saw that guy's videos back about a year ago. I didn't realize he was still making new ones. Obviously, this one is new. That's awesome that their ammo makes velocity and is cheap. Their bullet selection is the one area that could be improved. Those are Zero bullets in the cheap-o rounds, and the Golden Sabers are not ideal, especially at those speeds. The 135gr Nosler JHPs will be a good option.

Watching that video and reexamining his spreadsheet reminds me how crappy Double Tap is. They should get sued for their lies. What crap. I hate false advertisement.

I agree that their bullet selection could be better, but as you can see, it is already improving.

By "cheap-o rounds", do you mean the 180gr FMJs? Zero bullets? That's a brand name? Anyway.. I can tell you that those rounds penetrate quite well and are a good deal for the money. They're "cheap" enough that you can do whatever you want with em, just punch paper or bust up a cinderblock into ~4 pieces with 2 shots.

I don't give a damn about the Golden Sabers. Those are the "expensive" rounds. :supergrin:

I like the 180gr loads and the 165gr JHP, (Winchester bullets). I anticipate loving the 135gr noslers.. considering their power, at that price; how could ya not? :smoking:

arushus
11-15-2011, 00:05
I just ordered 150rds of the 180gr fmj's...cant wait to try em out. I realize the fmj's will likely fragment before making much meaningful penetration, but for the price I cant wait to shoot all that full power stuff!

p.s. dont tell mudrush...

post-apocalyptic
11-15-2011, 00:17
I just ordered 150rds of the 180gr fmj's...cant wait to try em out. I realize the fmj's will likely fragment before making much meaningful penetration, but for the price I cant wait to shoot all that full power stuff!

p.s. dont tell mudrush...

Heh, I didn't realize that you hadn't fired any Underwood yet. Prepare to be very well satisfied, especially for the price! :50cal:

Underwood is loaded in new Starline brass, so the casings you recover are dependably reloadable, (several times).

Forgive my ignorance, but 10mm FMJ bullets loaded to full-power fragment before penetrating that much? I guess the distinction doesn't matter much when it comes to 10mm fire against hard cover, as I already know that the Underwood 10mm FMJ rounds do quite well against brick/cinderblock... reducing cover into concealment better than any other service caliber pistol. :smoking:

arushus
11-15-2011, 00:31
Heh, I didn't realize that you hadn't fired any Underwood yet. Prepare to be very well satisfied, especially for the price! :50cal:

Underwood is loaded in new Starline brass, so the casings you recover are dependably reloadable, (several times).

Forgive my ignorance, but 10mm FMJ bullets loaded to full-power fragment before penetrating that much? I guess the distinction doesn't matter much when it comes to 10mm fire against hard cover, as I already know that the Underwood 10mm FMJ rounds do quite well against brick/cinderblock... reducing cover into concealment better than any other service caliber pistol. :smoking:

Yes, cheap, non-bonded fmj's shear off their outer jacket and fragment relatively easily. I shot at a tv with a 180gr fmj's a few times once...I expected it to put a clean hole straight through it, instead, it hit the glass and pretty much blew apart. I didnt find any big pieces left of it. It did make a hole in the glass, but that was it...

post-apocalyptic
11-15-2011, 00:39
Yes, cheap, non-bonded fmj's shear off their outer jacket and fragment relatively easily. I shot at a tv with a 180gr fmj's a few times once...I expected it to put a clean hole straight through it, instead, it hit the glass and pretty much blew apart. I didnt find any big pieces left of it. It did make a hole in the glass, but that was it...

Huh.. :eyebrow:

Yeah, that result suprises me. What velocity were those flying at?

arushus
11-15-2011, 00:58
1200, supposedly...

post-apocalyptic
11-15-2011, 01:10
1200, supposedly...

A bit slow, then. Underwood 180gr FMJ flies at just over 1300fps, (or faster if you have a longer barrel, Glock or aftermarket), and fuucks sh1t up nicely, at least in my experience. Like I said, prepare to be well satisfied with your purchase. ;)

arushus
11-15-2011, 01:51
A bit slow, then. Underwood 180gr FMJ flies at just over 1300fps, (or faster if you have a longer barrel, Glock or aftermarket), and fuucks sh1t up nicely, at least in my experience. Like I said, prepare to be well satisfied with your purchase. ;)

I have no doubt :wavey:

Crosseyed Shooter
11-15-2011, 09:24
I used the chrony on my Underwood purchase on Friday. The 180 fmj averaged just over 1400 fps and the 165 hp averaged just over 1550 fps. This is out of my Kimber Eclipse with 5" barrel.

rcd567
11-15-2011, 10:19
I've been shooting their 165 grain bullets and have ordered a bunch more. I don't really care how they get them so cheap, only that they are the best bang for the buck that I can find.:supergrin:

I believe someone in an earlier thread emailed them about their bullets and they responded that the bullets were Winchester. Granted not a bonded, premium, uber tactical, thermal nuclear, plutonium type bullet. But for what I'm doing, they are just fine.

SolidBrass
11-15-2011, 19:22
Yes, they are as good as claimed, and if people keep pumping them up online they will be priced like DT in no time.:steamed: I'm torn between giving them the credit they deserve and keeping it on the low down.:whistling:
drsjr1969 (http://www.youtube.com/user/drsjr1969) on youtube has all the 10mm chronos.

post-apocalyptic
11-15-2011, 19:51
Yes, they are as good as claimed, and if people keep pumping them up online they will be priced like DT in no time.:steamed: I'm torn between giving them the credit they deserve and keeping it on the low down.:whistling:
drsjr1969 (http://www.youtube.com/user/drsjr1969) on youtube has all the 10mm chronos.


Actually man, the reverse is true, assuming Kevin Underwood is a capitalist. ;)

Greater demand should lower the price, assuming materials are not scarce, (and they're not). The fact that Underwood has lowered the price of their 10mm in the last couple months, (they've sold a lot more ammo since they got a good website up), bears out my argument.

G29SF
11-15-2011, 20:18
I ordered 8 boxes of 10mm from Underwood today. I like what you guys are saying about them. Can't wait to try them out.

blastfact
11-15-2011, 21:19
Call it a margin loss leader. Buy if your not a reloader.

SolidBrass
11-15-2011, 21:20
assuming materials are not scarce, (and they're not).

Kevin is the man for sure. But I question the materials statement as so many other ammo suppliers claim "scarce" as their reason for not having any available. I'm thinking Georgia arms and other 'low cost' ammo makers.

You can gernally find 180 grn. Even then shopping online I find few options at anything less the top dollar $1-2/shot, anything 200 or over at good speeds are all over $50/50rnd or more when they should cost the same as .45.

Is it really scarce? or simply not enough market. Was Double Tap always this pricey or did it go up as they gained brand recognition?

I ordered 8 boxes of 10mm from Underwood today. I like what you guys are saying about them. Can't wait to try them out.

Avoid the "fully supported chamber" rounds in the 29 of course. You will be happy.

post-apocalyptic
11-15-2011, 21:49
Kevin is the man for sure. But I question the materials statement...

...Is it really scarce? or simply not enough market...

Have you not noticed how much more popular 10mm has become in the last couple years? Popularity means sales, which ups production and drops prices. That's why the other service pistol calibers are so much cheaper than 10mm, (even the watered-down stuff).

SolidBrass
11-15-2011, 21:54
Have you not noticed how much more popular 10mm has become in the last couple years? Popularity means sales, which ups production and drops prices. That's why the other service pistol calibers are so much cheaper than 10mm, (even the watered-down stuff).

I hope you are right. I think gun people will see the logic of the 10mm in time. They love the 9mm and the 10mm turns it up to 11. ("most amps only go to 10, these go to 11" - Spinal Tap)

rcd567
11-15-2011, 22:21
Alright people, move along, nothing to see here, move along, keep moving.:whistling:


Payday ain't till Friday and I want some ammo still in stock so I can get some geeezzz.

TKM
11-15-2011, 22:33
Cool, we get the idea.

How about cleaning up the language?

It's not dirty if I can't spell, doesn't work.

Family friendly site and all that.

arushus
11-15-2011, 23:07
Alright people, move along, nothing to see here, move along, keep moving.:whistling:


Payday ain't till Friday and I want some ammo still in stock so I can get some geeezzz.

haha, maybe if stocks start getting low we should start a thread talking about what crap ammo it is...save it for those of us that know better :whistling:

TreyG-20
11-16-2011, 07:11
Alright people, move along, nothing to see here, move along, keep moving.:whistling:


Payday ain't till Friday and I want some ammo still in stock so I can get some geeezzz.
LOL no kidding im in the same boat as you except i cant my order till next friday. Everyone hush up for a couple weeks. If they make the 135gr noslers i plan on buying every box they have

TreyG-20
11-16-2011, 07:12
haha, maybe if stocks start getting low we should start a thread talking about what crap ammo it is...save it for those of us that know better :whistling:
I agree under wood ammo is CRAP!!!:whistling:

G29SF
11-16-2011, 08:15
Avoid the "fully supported chamber" rounds in the 29 of course. You will be happy.

Why do you say that? I shoot Swamp Fox's hottest stuff (200gr @ 1325 fps) in both my G20 and G29. Underwoods stuff is not that hot. I see Underwood as being a nice compromise -- price vs not-as-hot stuff.

G29SF
11-16-2011, 08:17
LOL no kidding im in the same boat as you except i cant my order till next friday. Everyone hush up for a couple weeks. If they make the 135gr noslers i plan on buying every box they have

I ordered six boxes of in-stock ammo. Then I ordered two boxes of the 135gr Noslers. Didn't want to hold back the other boxes because the Noslers were on backorder!

SolidBrass
11-16-2011, 17:10
Why do you say that? I shoot Swamp Fox's hottest stuff (200gr @ 1325 fps) in both my G20 and G29. Underwoods stuff is not that hot. I see Underwood as being a nice compromise -- price vs not-as-hot stuff.

"fully supported chamber" means just that, not glocks stock barrel for the 29 which leaves a good chuck of the casing exposed. I bet those 200gr rounds leave some pretty good 'Glock smiles' on the brass in a stock barrel. I would use and aftermarket barrel for anything that powerful.

As to the ammo being 'hot' or not. Nobody listens to facts. You can see it proved on youtube. drsjr1969 is the guy on youtube who has crono'd close to 70 different 10mm rounds.

His top 10 rounds in AVG Energy are as follow: All shot from a completely stock Glock 20

Elite Ammunition 175 GR STHP = 715 ftlbs
Elite Ammunition 200 GR CMJ = 713 ftlbs
Buffalo Bore 180 GR JHP = 705 ftlbs 1,327 ft/sec
Elite Ammunition 65 GR JHP = 685 ftlbs
Underwood Ammo 180 GR JHP = 679 ftlbs 1,303 ft/sec
Underwood Ammo 165 GR JHP = 666 ftlbs 1,348 ft/sec
Double tap 130 GR NozzlerJHP = 612 ftlbs
Reed's A&R 165 GR.............. = 606 ftlbs
Reeds A&R 135 GR............... = 604 ftlbs

Since you can't buy any of the Elite Ammo online (that I can find) and Buffalo Bore cost 2-3x as much. I'll stick with underwood. Lots of "fancy" brands don't even crack 500 ftlbs. :tongueout:

At the end of this video the guy post a spead sheet of his ammo test.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGF4-wBXo_M

Swapfire looks great, but is priced for the 1%.

Morley Menthols
11-16-2011, 18:21
I shot some Underwood 180 grain hollow points. Seems ok. Gave a detailed description of my testing but the post would not upload. So be it.

G29SF
11-16-2011, 21:17
"fully supported chamber" means just that, not glocks stock barrel for the 29 which leaves a good chuck of the casing exposed. I bet those 200gr rounds leave some pretty good 'Glock smiles' on the brass in a stock barrel. I would use and aftermarket barrel for anything that powerful.

As to the ammo being 'hot' or not. Nobody listens to facts. You can see it proved on youtube. drsjr1969 is the guy on youtube who has crono'd close to 70 different 10mm rounds.

His top 10 rounds in AVG Energy are as follow: All shot from a completely stock Glock 20

Elite Ammunition 175 GR STHP = 715 ftlbs
Elite Ammunition 200 GR CMJ = 713 ftlbs
Buffalo Bore 180 GR JHP = 705 ftlbs 1,327 ft/sec
Elite Ammunition 65 GR JHP = 685 ftlbs
Underwood Ammo 180 GR JHP = 679 ftlbs 1,303 ft/sec
Underwood Ammo 165 GR JHP = 666 ftlbs 1,348 ft/sec
Double tap 130 GR NozzlerJHP = 612 ftlbs
Reed's A&R 165 GR.............. = 606 ftlbs
Reeds A&R 135 GR............... = 604 ftlbs

Since you can't buy any of the Elite Ammo online (that I can find) and Buffalo Bore cost 2-3x as much. I'll stick with underwood. Lots of "fancy" brands don't even crack 500 ftlbs. :tongueout:

At the end of this video the guy post a spead sheet of his ammo test.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGF4-wBXo_M

Swapfire looks great, but is priced for the 1%.

My question was rhetorical. See my sig line. (I'm fully aware of fully supported chamber barrels.) I also stated (after my question) that I shoot Swamp Fox ammo 200gr XTPs @ 1325 fps (780 ft/lbs if I remember correctly). (I also shoot his 135gr Noslers which are over 800 ft/lbs.) Those are hotter than the Underwood offerings.

Thanks for the concern though. :cool:

SolidBrass
11-17-2011, 17:20
My question was rhetorical. See my sig line. (I'm fully aware of fully supported chamber barrels.) I also stated (after my question) that I shoot Swamp Fox ammo 200gr XTPs @ 1325 fps (780 ft/lbs if I remember correctly). (I also shoot his 135gr Noslers which are over 800 ft/lbs.) Those are hotter than the Underwood offerings.

Thanks for the concern though. :cool:

Those numbers would put swamp fox at the top of the list. Do you have any way of backing up those numbers? What gun were there chrono'd on? Video proof? But I wouldn't considereing the major bands mostly rate below 500 ftlbs I would still call Underwood 'hot'.

More importantly to me is that swamp fox is twice as pricey as underwood. Would you rather have 500 rounds of swamp fox it or 1000 rounds of underwood? For those on a budget that is often the choice.

G29SF
11-21-2011, 08:11
Those numbers would put swamp fox at the top of the list. Do you have any way of backing up those numbers? What gun were there chrono'd on? Video proof? But I wouldn't considereing the major bands mostly rate below 500 ftlbs I would still call Underwood 'hot'.

More importantly to me is that swamp fox is twice as pricey as underwood. Would you rather have 500 rounds of swamp fox it or 1000 rounds of underwood? For those on a budget that is often the choice.

Yup, it sure does. Swamp Fox (I believe) is the undisputed king of new manufactured 10mm ammo.

As far as backing up the number, no I have not chrono'd anything myself (don't own a chrony). I have never read anything to say his numbers aren't accurate though. If you ever shoot his stuff, you will understand.

Have you been reading this forum much? You seem to be unfamiliar with Swamp Fox ammo...

As far as price, yeah it is expensive. Not something I use at the range for target practice, but it is bad-ass!

awdxtc
11-21-2011, 10:49
Wow that's cheaper than I can buy cci blazer. I am going to order about 6 boxes to try it out.

awdxtc
11-21-2011, 10:53
Would you rather have 500 rounds of swamp fox it or 1000 rounds of underwood? For those on a budget that is often the choice.

Depends...if my life was on the line I would rather have 10 rounds of swamp fox vs. 1000 rounds of anything.

arushus
11-21-2011, 11:06
Yup, it sure does. Swamp Fox (I believe) is the undisputed king of new manufactured 10mm ammo.

As far as backing up the number, no I have not chrono'd anything myself (don't own a chrony). I have never read anything to say his numbers aren't accurate though. If you ever shoot his stuff, you will understand.

Have you been reading this forum much? You seem to be unfamiliar with Swamp Fox ammo...

As far as price, yeah it is expensive. Not something I use at the range for target practice, but it is bad-ass!

I agree, well put. I was just about to write something similar. He must not have done must research into their product. Swampfox has the kind of reputation around here where he doesnt have to prove that his numbers meet their stated velocities anymore, that has been gone over time and again. YOU have to prove that his numbers dont add up, not him...

rcd567
11-21-2011, 11:10
Depends...if my life was on the line I would rather have 10 rounds of swamp fox vs. 1000 rounds of anything.

Not me. I'd take the 1000 rounds. Or even 16 rounds. A few hundred fps isn't as important as shot placement. And if the gremlin is shooting at you, you might need more bullets as you shoot on the move.

post-apocalyptic
11-21-2011, 12:41
Depends...if my life was on the line I would rather have 10 rounds of swamp fox vs. 1000 rounds of anything.

I'd rather have 1k rnds of even Prvi Partizan Serbian 10mm, (.40 S&W strength), over a mere 10 rnds of SF or anything else.

Regardless; if my life's on the line, I'd prefer a long gun over any pistol in any caliber. ;)

arushus
11-21-2011, 12:46
SF is no more...:crying:

SolidBrass
11-21-2011, 17:10
Have you been reading this forum much? You seem to be unfamiliar with Swamp Fox ammo...

Yes I've been to their website, read about them on this forum and even emailed them to ask a question. My email was not replied to. Careful with your assumptions.:steamed: AT NO POINT DID I SAY ANYTHING BAD ABOUT SWAPFOX other than the cost.

He must not have done must research into their product. Swampfox has the kind of reputation around here where he doesnt have to prove that his numbers meet their stated velocities, YOU have to prove that his numbers dont add up, not him...

So I just takes someone's word on this (who doesn't have a chono)? Proof not needed. It's up to me to disprove it someone's unverified claim? :faint:That's interesting. You didn't take science in school did you?

Either way, assuming he is right. It's still very expensive by comparison.

I didn't insult anyone with my posts (until now). Why make this a personal attack on me?

SF is no more...:crying:

*EDIT* reading the other posts it appears Mike of SF passed away. RIP

G29SF
11-21-2011, 17:51
Yes I've been to their website, read about them on this forum and even emailed them to ask a question. My email was not replied to. Careful with your assumptions.:steamed: AT NO POINT DID I SAY ANYTHING BAD ABOUT SWAPFOX other than the cost.



So I just takes someone's word on this (who doesn't have a chono)? Proof not needed. It's up to me to disprove it someone's unverified claim? :faint:That's interesting. You didn't take science in school did you?

Either way, assuming he is right. It's still very expensive by comparison.

I didn't insult anyone with my posts (until now). Why make this a personal attack on me?



*EDIT* reading the other posts it appears Mike of SF passed away. RIP

Nobody said you said anything bad about Swamp Fox. I'm not sure how you came up with that...

Anyway, my point was you seem like you are unfamiliar with SF's ammo. If you have been reading the 10-Ring of any amount of time you would know his reputation is stellar as is his ammo.

What started this was you giving advice to use a fully supported barrel with Underwood's ammo... when I already shoot "hotter-than-underwood" ammo with my setup ... which is listed in my sig line (LOL). It was from that discussion onward that I assumed you were unfamiliar with SF. Nobody said you were dissn' him.

As far as needing "proof", I agree. I have however read a lot of posters on this board rave about how hot his ammo is. If he was falsifying his numbers, he probably would have been crucified (like Double Tap) by some. I have yet to read anything about his ammo other than WOW. If you ever shot his ammo you would understand. It really was above and beyond anything out there.

Was it expensive? Sure. But it was the hottest out there AND it was cheaper than Buffalo Bore (another often cited premium brand). SF ammo was never meant to be target/plinking ammo. It was the hottest premium ammo for hunting, personal protection, etc.

I am excited to try out Underwood's offerings now...

SolidBrass
11-21-2011, 22:18
Nobody said you said anything bad about Swamp Fox. I'm not sure how you came up with that...Anyway, my point was you seem like you are ,,, Underwood's offerings now...

This was an underwood post. Kevin is great guy and it's a easy place to buy arms. I'm not knocking others arms just on the side of the little guy that like really good ammo at half the price.:supergrin:

Heart attack at 50 kind of makes you think. :worried: And sad indeed.

arushus
11-21-2011, 22:59
So I just takes someone's word on this (who doesn't have a chono)? Proof not needed. It's up to me to disprove it someone's unverified claim? :faint:That's interesting. You didn't take science in school did you?

Either way, assuming he is right. It's still very expensive by comparison.

I didn't insult anyone with my posts (until now). Why make this a personal attack on me?
Not sure which part of my post was attacking you? You get defensive very easily...:animlol::panties:
When I said YOU have to prove they dont meet his stated velocities, I meant you in general...
Im well aware of the scientific method, I have a bachelor of science degree...and it is because of this knowledge of the scientific method that I can say what I did. The claim is not unverified, quite the opposite! You asking for proff is like asking for proof that the earth is round. Umm, I could get proof that the earth is round for you, but it has been proven so much, and is so obvious by now that it seems pretty silly!
His velocities have been proven and gone over again and again on here, by several people, there are even videos on youtube showing his ammo in action. Being that the thorough experimentation has proven my theory, I can say what I did, and unless someone could have proven otherwise, his stated velocities are correct. We obviously did not take this on blind fact, we studied it, like we did everyone else's ammo.
All of this is why I said, you have to prove otherwise...

So, before you go running your mouth about needing proof and numbers backed up, why dont you do just a little bit of research yourself? If you had, you would have known that swampfox's ammo has been proven several different ways, over and over again to be what we, and swampfox, say it is!

TreyG-20
11-22-2011, 06:57
Yes I've been to their website, read about them on this forum and even emailed them to ask a question. My email was not replied to. Careful with your assumptions.:steamed: AT NO POINT DID I SAY ANYTHING BAD ABOUT SWAPFOX other than the cost.



So I just takes someone's word on this (who doesn't have a chono)? Proof not needed. It's up to me to disprove it someone's unverified claim? :faint:That's interesting. You didn't take science in school did you?

Either way, assuming he is right. It's still very expensive by comparison.

I didn't insult anyone with my posts (until now). Why make this a personal attack on me?



*EDIT* reading the other posts it appears Mike of SF passed away. RIP
Just youtube swampfoxammo and you will see plenty of videos of his ammo beinging chronographed. Do some research. Doesnt matter now anyway cause nobody will be getting his ammo. So looks like underwood is the source now

rcd567
11-22-2011, 10:59
OK, who is the guilty one? I get an email from Underwood saying the 135 gr. 10mm is available. I didn't see it for a couple hours. By the time I get to the website, they are sold out.:steamed:

Which one of you bought all they had??????????

arushus
11-22-2011, 11:08
Trey did it all! I swear! :whistling:

TreyG-20
11-22-2011, 14:01
Trey did it all! I swear! :whistling:
My bad sorry:whistling:. I wish, i havent got a chance to buy any yet. Hopefully they will have some more soon.

post-apocalyptic
11-22-2011, 14:42
My bad sorry:whistling:. I wish, i havent got a chance to buy any yet. Hopefully they will have some more soon.

I dunno.. I also procrastinated this time and missed out. :burn:

I think this will be Underwood's most popular 10mm loading, and backordering a few boxes might be a good idea.

G29SF
11-22-2011, 15:26
OK, who is the guilty one? I get an email from Underwood saying the 135 gr. 10mm is available. I didn't see it for a couple hours. By the time I get to the website, they are sold out.:steamed:

Which one of you bought all they had??????????

I ordered (backordered) two boxes on 11/15, however my order is still pending ("received" status). I only orderd two boxes so I didn't do it!

SolidBrass
11-22-2011, 16:53
We need to lobby Kevin Underwood to make a 200grn hardcast, or even a 230grn.

G29SF
11-22-2011, 17:20
We need to lobby Kevin Underwood to make a 200grn hardcast, or even a 230grn.


I would love to know the thinking of 220gr vs 230gr in 10mm. DT offers a 230gr cartridge (don't know if it is really 230gr though), however Buffalo Bore states that 220gr is the biggest you can use in the 10mm.

Don't know who to believe and what their logic is.

I have even read about bullet tumbling from 230gr DTs.

The more I get into all of this, the more I want to reload!

But yes, I think Underwood (Keith I believe is his name) has a great opportunity here.

post-apocalyptic
11-22-2011, 18:42
I would love to know the thinking of 220gr vs 230gr in 10mm. DT offers a 230gr cartridge (don't know if it is really 230gr though), however Buffalo Bore states that 220gr is the biggest you can use in the 10mm.

Don't know who to believe and what their logic is.

I have even read about bullet tumbling from 230gr DTs.

The more I get into all of this, the more I want to reload!

But yes, I think Underwood (Keith I believe is his name) has a great opportunity here.

From what I've seen, (Hickok45's videos), any 10mm bullet heavier than 220gr will tumble when fired from a Glock barrel.. but the aftermarket barrels will stabilize up to 230gr, (because of the difference in rifling).

I'll stick with my Glock barrels and bullets 220gr or lighter. They get it done just fine.

Allsmk_nomirror
11-22-2011, 19:03
Awesome I gotta give em a try, I just picked up a 22lb captured recoil spring assembly for my G20Sf

SolidBrass
11-22-2011, 19:36
From what I've seen, (Hickok45's videos), any 10mm bullet heavier than 220gr will tumble when fired from a Glock barrel.. but the aftermarket barrels will stabilize up to 230gr, (because of the difference in rifling).

I was going to say that. Aftermarket barrel for a 230gr. A hunting/animal defense round.

(Keith I believe is his name)According the business card in my lap his name is Kevin. I've got a lot of his .45acp 230gn JHP and FMJ and 10mm 180gn JHP rounds in storage (and in my guns).

G29SF
11-22-2011, 21:23
I was going to say that. Aftermarket barrel for a 230gr. A hunting/animal defense round.

According the business card in my lap his name is Kevin. I've got a lot of his .45acp 230gn JHP and FMJ and 10mm 180gn JHP rounds in storage (and in my guns).

That is right... my mistake. I remember seeing that now that you mention it. Thanks.

post-apocalyptic
11-26-2011, 21:37
135s are back in stock, at least for now. I just ordered 200rnds myself. :smoking:

yellolab
11-28-2011, 14:23
Is there consensus on what the bullets are uses? I hear maybe Montana, maybe Winchester, ??????

Also what are you guys using the 135grn for ? Just curious.

Kevin

arushus
11-28-2011, 14:33
Is there consensus on what the bullets are uses? I hear maybe Montana, maybe Winchester, ??????

Also what are you guys using the 135grn for ? Just curious.

Kevin

He said in another thread he uses winchester hollowpoints, not sure about fmj's...

I use 135 for home defense, it pretty much blows up when it hits anything, so less of a chance they'll overpenetrate and hurt someone...

yellolab
11-28-2011, 15:11
So 135: home defense
180- deer
200- bear, sasquatch, boar

Where does the 165 fit ?

Kevin

4949shooter
11-28-2011, 15:18
So 135: home defense
180- deer
200- bear, sasquatch, boar

Where does the 165 fit ?
Kevin

Carry..

rcd567
11-28-2011, 18:34
Carry..

The 165 comes the closest to the Winner of the 1987 FBI tests. It's more of an all round weight. Better barrier round than the lighter ones in case you have to shoot through a windshield or automobile panel. Back then they showed the 170 Norma round traveling about 1300fps to be superior "overall" in the testing. They shot through auto glass, plywood, layers of sheet metal, and different densities of clothing and still penetrate ballistic gel a minimum of 12".

This is my main round.

awdxtc
11-28-2011, 18:46
I would like to get some hot gold dots in 165gn for carry this winter, anyone know if underwood can do custom loadings?

4949shooter
11-28-2011, 19:05
The 165 comes the closest to the Winner of the 1987 FBI tests. It's more of an all round weight. Better barrier round than the lighter ones in case you have to shoot through a windshield or automobile panel. Back then they showed the 170 Norma round traveling about 1300fps to be superior "overall" in the testing. They shot through auto glass, plywood, layers of sheet metal, and different densities of clothing and still penetrate ballistic gel a minimum of 12".

This is my main round.

I saw your review on the Underwood ammo site. I will be purchasing some 165's from them in the future. Are you running the 165's with the OEM Glock barrel?

rcd567
11-28-2011, 19:54
I saw your review on the Underwood ammo site. I will be purchasing some 165's from them in the future. Are you running the 165's with the OEM Glock barrel?

I am! Brass came out fine. I did buy a Lone Wolf barrel and will test that with them too. My Glock barrel leaves a pretty good size bulge in all cases I shoot out of it. The Underwoods were no different. Since I reload some too, I wanted a tighter chamber so the brass would last longer. There were no smilies in any of the cases from Underwood.

Also not sure about custom loading Gold Dots since they already have the 165 gr. Golden Saber round.

I need to order some more and might throw in some 180 or 200 if they get them done in time so I can shoot a deer with it.:supergrin:

kjunderwood
11-28-2011, 21:18
I would like to get some hot gold dots in 165gn for carry this winter, anyone know if underwood can do custom loadings?

We're working on adding Gold Dot to our entire production line. 10mm will be the first to get them.

inspectorjj
11-28-2011, 21:43
We're working on adding Gold Dot to our entire production line. 10mm will be the first to get them.

Mr. Underwood, you are making some very good and long term friends here on the 10 ring. Again, welcome to the forum.

awdxtc
11-28-2011, 22:04
We're working on adding Gold Dot to our entire production line. 10mm will be the first to get them.

Outstanding!!!!! I can not wait to get my noslers. I have to say you ship extremely fast, I ordered last night and they went out first thing today. Thanks again.

rcd567
11-28-2011, 22:22
We're working on adding Gold Dot to our entire production line. 10mm will be the first to get them.

I gladly stand corrected. The gold dots will be great. Although I'm certain the plain old Winchester JHP will stop any street monster I come across. The bonded bullet is just a wee bit more insurance especially if shooting through a barrier.

Oh, and Mr. Underwood...my wife is going to hate you eventually.:wavey:

awdxtc
11-28-2011, 22:25
Oh, and Mr. Underwood...my wife is going to hate you eventually.:wavey:

No Wife here but I will say the same thing about underwood ammo that I said about Guitar center the first time I was ever in one....I can see this place draining my bank account very quickly.

10 fan
11-28-2011, 22:29
I practice with 180gr. FMJ and BVAC at 100fps less is alot cheaper than underwood. 500 for 175$ I have had no problems with the last 9 or 10,000 rounds. Does anyone know of a better training ammo?

inspectorjj
11-28-2011, 23:11
I practice with 180gr. FMJ and BVAC at 100fps less is alot cheaper than underwood. 500 for 175$ I have had no problems with the last 9 or 10,000 rounds. Does anyone know of a better training ammo?

I guess I have a different outlook. I don't shoot a lot at the range with my Glock 20 but when I do, I want to shoot the same ammo that will be protecting my life so that not only will I be familiar with it, but, I can also develop a trust in it. What Mr. Underwood is charging for premium ammo, it is a small price to pay for what could mean me or my wife living or dying. If I wanted to shoot a lot at paper, to save money, I would get a .22 long rifle.

PS: At 55 yrs. old, training for me was a lifetime ago. At this point and time, it is just a matter of me keeping in tune every now and then. So my views could be that of a crusty old dude.

post-apocalyptic
11-28-2011, 23:15
I saw your review on the Underwood ammo site. I will be purchasing some 165's from them in the future. Are you running the 165's with the OEM Glock barrel?

I've run more than a few 165gr JHP Underwood 10mm rnds through both my stock '20 barrel and my 6" Glock Hunter. All functioned flawlessly and only some of the fired casings have any discernable hint of a "Glock smile". On those casings; the "smiles" are barely visible, not easily photographed, and have little to no effect on reloadablility... i.e. the 165gr JHP Underwood rnds are loaded to the original full-power, (or full house), 10mm specs, as all Underwood 10mm rnds are.

They're currently my favorite rnd to shoot, (I won't get my 135gr nosler JHP Underwood rnds till Friday ;) ), very versatile and extremely damaging to anything they're fired at... although the best rnd, (of the various factory 10mm I've fired), for turning cover into concealment is Underwood's 180gr FMJ, (>1300 fps)! :50cal:

10 fan
11-28-2011, 23:31
I guess I have a different outlook. I don't shoot a lot at the range with my Glock 20 but when I do, I want to shoot the same ammo that will be protecting my life so that not only will I be familiar with it, but, I can also develop a trust in it. What Mr. Underwood is charging for premium ammo, it is a small price to pay for what could mean me or my wife living or dying. If I wanted to shoot a lot at paper, to save money, I would get a .22 long rifle.

PS: At 55 yrs. old, training for me was a lifetime ago. At this point and time, it is just a matter of me keeping in tune every now and then. So my views could be that of a crusty old dude.
My edc ammo is DT 180gr. bonded defence at 1305fps. Draw from IWB and a shoot controlled under time pressure I dought if most could find or feel the difference including POI,bullet rise or drop ,recoil control,target aquisition on second shot.

awdxtc
11-28-2011, 23:40
My edc ammo is DT 180gr. bonded defence at 1305fps. Draw from IWB and a shoot controlled under time pressure I dought if most could find or feel the difference including POI,bullet rise or drop ,recoil control,target aquisition on second shot.

Are you sure that double tap isn't more like 1100 fps...just sayin.

post-apocalyptic
11-28-2011, 23:42
Are you sure that double tap isn't more like 1100 fps...just sayin.

:laughabove:

It depends on when he bought it.. sadly. :laughing:

awdxtc
11-28-2011, 23:48
As far as if there is anything cheaper...georgia arms has some for like 17.50/50 or if you reload you can make it even cheaper

inspectorjj
11-29-2011, 00:12
My edc ammo is DT 180gr. bonded defence at 1305fps. Draw from IWB and a shoot controlled under time pressure I dought if most could find or feel the difference including POI,bullet rise or drop ,recoil control,target aquisition on second shot.

Well, like I said, I'm just a crusty old dude and it is only my opinion. I just don't believe that Major League Baseball players should have batting practice with whiffle balls. I believe that if you are going to "practice" at saving your life or someone else's life, it would make sense to use the same exact identical tools that you plan to use in a life saving event.
Also with the proven inadequacies printed on Double Taps boxes concerning velocity, I can see why you think there is no difference in felt recoil from the cheaper ammo. Everyone has an opinion, and I respect yours. I just don't see the logic or common sense in it from my limited point of view.

Angry Fist
11-29-2011, 00:57
Fan-friggin-tastic! Swampfox dropped off the face of the earth, and damn near a month later, I still ain't got my ammo. Pretty much saw deer season go to **** over it. :upeyes:

post-apocalyptic
11-29-2011, 01:39
Fan-friggin-tastic! Swampfox dropped off the face of the earth, and damn near a month later, I still ain't got my ammo. Pretty much saw deer season go to **** over it. :upeyes:

Ah, shaddup you sig-line stealin biotch. :honkie:

saspic
11-29-2011, 04:35
Fan-friggin-tastic! Swampfox dropped off the face of the earth, and damn near a month later, I still ain't got my ammo. Pretty much saw deer season go to **** over it. :upeyes:

Mike Willard died about three weeks ago. The ammo, unfortunately, will not be coming.

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1382856

And post-apocalyptic, GLOCK TALK doesn't really like profanity, even the misspelled variety.

4949shooter
11-29-2011, 05:38
I am! Brass came out fine. I did buy a Lone Wolf barrel and will test that with them too. My Glock barrel leaves a pretty good size bulge in all cases I shoot out of it. The Underwoods were no different. Since I reload some too, I wanted a tighter chamber so the brass would last longer. There were no smilies in any of the cases from Underwood.

Also not sure about custom loading Gold Dots since they already have the 165 gr. Golden Saber round.

I need to order some more and might throw in some 180 or 200 if they get them done in time so I can shoot a deer with it.:supergrin:

I've run more than a few 165gr JHP Underwood 10mm rnds through both my stock '20 barrel and my 6" Glock Hunter. All functioned flawlessly and only some of the fired casings have any discernable hint of a "Glock smile". On those casings; the "smiles" are barely visible, not easily photographed, and have little to no effect on reloadablility... i.e. the 165gr JHP Underwood rnds are loaded to the original full-power, (or full house), 10mm specs, as all Underwood 10mm rnds are.

They're currently my favorite rnd to shoot, (I won't get my 135gr nosler JHP Underwood rnds till Friday ;) ), very versatile and extremely damaging to anything they're fired at... although the best rnd, (of the various factory 10mm I've fired), for turning cover into concealment is Underwood's 180gr FMJ, (>1300 fps)! :50cal:

Thanks guys..

rcd567
11-29-2011, 08:05
Fan-friggin-tastic! Swampfox dropped off the face of the earth, and damn near a month later, I still ain't got my ammo. Pretty much saw deer season go to **** over it. :upeyes:

Since he died I'm not sure anyone waiting for orders or refunds will get them. You actually might try a snail mail letter as the person handling his affairs may not have access to his computer email.

Trusting your hard earned dollars to a small ammo maker does have some risks. BTW Kevin (Underwood), how have you been feeling lately?:shocked:

arushus
11-29-2011, 09:42
Since he died I'm not sure anyone waiting for orders or refunds will get them. You actually might try a snail mail letter as the person handling his affairs may not have access to his computer email.

Trusting your hard earned dollars to a small ammo maker does have some risks. BTW Kevin (Underwood), how have you been feeling lately?:shocked:

Good question!

When is the last time you had an ECG? How about a heart stress test? You taking your vitamins? Gotta stay healthy kevin!

kjunderwood
11-29-2011, 11:04
BTW Kevin (Underwood), how have you been feeling lately?:shocked:

Well, I guess it wouldn't hurt to lose 15-20lbs...but other than that, I think I'm doing alright. I'll keep you posted.

post-apocalyptic
11-29-2011, 13:47
Looks like the 200gr XTPs are now available on the website: 40 units in stock, (as of now).

SolidBrass
11-29-2011, 17:55
Looks like the 200gr XTPs are now available on the website: 40 units in stock, (as of now).

You are on the ball for sure! I check the site last night and it was still back ordered.

I just placed an order for some 200gn and 130gn (and saved on shipping since they will now ship together instead of being backorder and shipped separate)

Now if only Lonewolf would get the stock length and 1/2" over G20 barrels back in stock. (they keep backing up the date)

Angry Fist
11-29-2011, 18:08
Mike Willard died about three weeks ago. The ammo, unfortunately, will not be coming.

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1382856

And post-apocalyptic, GLOCK TALK doesn't really like profanity, even the misspelled variety.
Wow, I didn't know that. That really sucks, losing a serious contributor to the 10MM community. I ain't worried. It's only a few bucks.

That is a killer sigline. PA, send me a box of Swampfox, and I'll let ya have it back! :supergrin:

post-apocalyptic
11-29-2011, 21:18
...That is a killer sigline. PA, send me a box of Swampfox, and I'll let ya have it back! :supergrin:

I waited what turned out to be too long, (RIP M. Willard), so I never got any Swampfox 10mm. I do have some Underwood though, and I'll be glad to give ya a few rnds real fast, from ~50 yds away. :fist:

10 fan
11-30-2011, 22:24
Are you sure that double tap isn't more like 1100 fps...just sayin.
I don't have a crono(on my list wish list) I can only go by the add. and the way it feels. I have federal 1060fps,miwall 1040, bvac 1200, dt 1250, dt 1305, all 180gr. and the bonded defense is not 1100. I have heard many people say DT is not what it says it is.Never seen or heard of a real test or proof ,just people saying it. If it were true I would be the first to switch.

glock20c10mm
11-30-2011, 22:33
I have heard many people say DT is not what it says it is.Never seen or heard of a real test or proof ,just people saying it. If it were true I would be the first to switch.
YouTube...it is true. Has been for years now.

10 fan
11-30-2011, 22:35
As far as if there is anything cheaper...georgia arms has some for like 17.50/50 or if you reload you can make it even cheaper
Same price as BVAC but 1100fps,the 1200 from BVAC is closer to my edc ammo. Thanks

arushus
11-30-2011, 22:38
I don't have a crono(on my list wish list) I can only go by the add. and the way it feels. I have federal 1060fps,miwall 1040, bvac 1200, dt 1250, dt 1305, all 180gr. and the bonded defense is not 1100. I have heard many people say DT is not what it says it is.Never seen or heard of a real test or proof ,just people saying it. If it were true I would be the first to switch.

check out the 10mm auto facebook page, or look up 10mm chronograph on youtube, a guy on there has chronographed nearly every 10mm load there is. He's also got a compilation of all the loads he tested put together in a spreadsheet...there's your proof!

wkoukios
12-01-2011, 07:13
I was a long time user till I was able to chronograph the ammo myself. Its way under what they claim. I tested 3 of the 10mm offerings, In specifics, I tested the 200 gr WFNGC that DT state will do 1300 fps from stock G20. I averaged 1060 fps 3 rounds were 1040 fps. I emailed the company to ask why and received no reply to several emails. I shot Buffalo Bore and some hand loads that same sesion that all recorded normal numbers. This verified that they LIE and no it!
I now use Buffalo bore or my own hand loads. I will not do another transaction of any kind with Double Tap. I even bought some components to hand load and found them to be wanting in quality. Beartooth makes better hard cast bullets so they have my money now!
Why am I angry, I bought 10mm hard cast ammo designed to defend against animals in the woods. They are advertised at a 10mm specific power capability yet offer 40 s&w power levels. 200gr at 1300fps is 750ft lbs. Move the velocity to 1060 and the energy drops to 499! This is more then just embellishing on the numbers! Glad I am loading my own now. I despise dishonest people that take my money with deception!

dryfly
12-01-2011, 07:35
Yeah... My opinion is that Mr. McNett should get as many Africa hunts in now as possile because one of these days someone will find a smart enough and willing enough lawyer to cause him some well earned grief.

Sierra9
12-01-2011, 15:10
I don't have a crono(on my list wish list) I can only go by the add. and the way it feels. I have federal 1060fps,miwall 1040, bvac 1200, dt 1250, dt 1305, all 180gr. and the bonded defense is not 1100. I have heard many people say DT is not what it says it is.Never seen or heard of a real test or proof ,just people saying it. If it were true I would be the first to switch.


I used to buy a lot of DT and at one time or another have chronographed most of the 10mm offerings. None have come within 200 fps of advertised. I once asked McNett face to face to respond to his critics on GT. His response was that he was busy enough that it wasn't worth it.

glock20c10mm
12-01-2011, 16:33
I was a long time user till I was able to chronograph the ammo myself. Its way under what they claim. I tested 3 of the 10mm offerings, In specifics, I tested the 200 gr WFNGC that DT state will do 1300 fps from stock G20. I averaged 1060 fps 3 rounds were 1040 fps. I emailed the company to ask why and received no reply to several emails. I shot Buffalo Bore and some hand loads that same sesion that all recorded normal numbers. This verified that they LIE and no it!
I now use Buffalo bore or my own hand loads. I will not do another transaction of any kind with Double Tap. I even bought some components to hand load and found them to be wanting in quality. Beartooth makes better hard cast bullets so they have my money now!
Why am I angry, I bought 10mm hard cast ammo designed to defend against animals in the woods. They are advertised at a 10mm specific power capability yet offer 40 s&w power levels. 200gr at 1300fps is 750ft lbs. Move the velocity to 1060 and the energy drops to 499! This is more then just embellishing on the numbers! Glad I am loading my own now. I despise dishonest people that take my money with deception!
AMEN.

With the Beartooth bullets; Have you noticed weight variances bullet to bullet or do they seem relatively same-same?

glock20c10mm
12-01-2011, 16:35
I used to buy a lot of DT and at one time or another have chronographed most of the 10mm offerings. None have come within 200 fps of advertised. I once asked McNett face to face to respond to his critics on GT. His response was that he was busy enough that it wasn't worth it.
Dang!, I already was very unhappy with them. Now I'm more unhappy but try to stay away from pure hatred. Where does that leave me?:shocked:

SolidBrass
12-01-2011, 16:45
YouTube...it is true. Has been for years now.

I've watched a lot of those video.

Almost everyband overstates there velocity (when shot out of a Glock 20)

I only know of two that match or beat what they claim: Underwood, and Swampfox.

Those that doen't include::crying:
BVAC
Double Tap
Buffalo Bore

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTxNwSjPnTE

glock20c10mm
12-01-2011, 17:09
I've watched a lot of those video.

Almost everyband overstates there velocity (when shot out of a Glock 20)

I only know of two that match or beat what they claim: Underwood, and Swampfox.

Those that doen't include::crying:
BVAC
Double Tap
Buffalo Bore

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTxNwSjPnTE
All relatively true.

But Double Tap specifically is out of line in that right on the box flap it shows that the velocity claim is based on a G20. For example, the following is what it says on an older box of DT 10mm 135gr -

10MM
135gr. Nosler JHP
1608fps / 4.6" bbl.
50 cartridges


Therefore I'ld say DT doesn't have the "5 inch barrel" excuse to use. Not to mention that the DT velocity claims are a whole lot more than a "little" off regardless.

SolidBrass
12-01-2011, 21:29
All relatively true.

But Double Tap... velocity claims are a whole lot more than a "little" off regardless.

Mormon country. What do you do?

rcd567
12-01-2011, 22:15
I've bought some of DT's ammo and it was good stuff. I didn't chrono it, but I doubt I got the speeds advertised on the box. I also doubt he's making those velocities the same way they are being tested on youtube. The ammo I"ve bought all went bang and it's available locally so that's a big plus. One thing to remember...he was offering 10mm stuff when almost no one else was bothering with it.

I'm not necessarily defending his claims, but I'm not shocked that someone would be less than truthful in advertising. Next you'll be telling me that politians lie.:faint:

But since this is an Underwood thread let me make it crystal clear. Kevin's ammo does meet his claims at about half the cost. I'll repeat that last part...at about half the cost! Until that changes, Underwood Ammo gets all my business.

And finally I've got no dog in this fight. I don't make ammo, nor make claims of velocity on such. What I can do is vote with my wallet. I vote Underwood.

10 fan
12-02-2011, 10:15
That was an eye opener,I had never seen any of the videos on you tube.I only watched one as it took an hour to load(I'm in an rv park in Pahraump with very slow wifi) I'll dig more when I get home but don't expect anything different. Even worse if the felt recoil is so much greater with the DT how low is the other stuff I have been shooting.I will be getting a chrono very soon to check all of my ammo. Thanks for pointing that out.

awdxtc
12-02-2011, 11:04
A chrono is on my short list as well. It never hurts to know what your actually shooting and I think that for reloading it should be a standard tool.

Glockz0r
12-02-2011, 11:28
I just put in an order for a box of 180 and 165gr JHP at Underwood. I'll be shooting these out of a stock G20 Gen3 when time and weather permits me. While I do not have a chrono I will be checking function and brass with these loads.

Update: It only took one hour from order confirmation to an email with UPS tracking #....Nice! :thumbsup:

rcd567
12-02-2011, 13:34
I just put in an order for a box of 180 and 165gr JHP at Underwood. I'll be shooting these out of a stock G20 Gen3 when time and weather permits me. While I do not have a chrono I will be checking function and brass with these loads.

Update: It only took one hour from order confirmation to an email with UPS tracking #....Nice! :thumbsup:


Yeah well some piece of trash hacked my credit card so now I'm awaiting a new credit card so I can validate it and place an order. 10 business days so they say. The little thieves are nothing but large piles of camel dung!:steamed:

Glockz0r
12-02-2011, 13:42
Yeah well some piece of trash hacked my credit card so now I'm awaiting a new credit card so I can validate it and place an order. 10 business days so they say. The little thieves are nothing but large piles of camel dung!:steamed:

I'm sorry to hear that. Hopefully, people will leave some ammo in stock for you to order when you are able. :whistling:

glock20c10mm
12-02-2011, 14:49
I've bought some of DT's ammo and it was good stuff. I didn't chrono it, but I doubt I got the speeds advertised on the box. I also doubt he's making those velocities the same way they are being tested on youtube. The ammo I"ve bought all went bang and it's available locally so that's a big plus. One thing to remember...he was offering 10mm stuff when almost no one else was bothering with it.

I'm not necessarily defending his claims, but I'm not shocked that someone would be less than truthful in advertising. Next you'll be telling me that politians lie.:faint:

But since this is an Underwood thread let me make it crystal clear. Kevin's ammo does meet his claims at about half the cost. I'll repeat that last part...at about half the cost! Until that changes, Underwood Ammo gets all my business.

And finally I've got no dog in this fight. I don't make ammo, nor make claims of velocity on such. What I can do is vote with my wallet. I vote Underwood.
I'm thinking you don't realize that DT ammo DID used to meet the claims...than a couple years after opening for business...:shakehead:

I'm also thinking you're not aware of the bullet switch-a-roo DT pulled on us a while back without changing any info about the loads on the website. When you think you're getting Gold Dots or XTPs....and a little later Montana Gold bullets show up at your door step.....yeah, NOT good.:fist:

dryfly
12-02-2011, 14:53
Any word on Underwood developing a 200 gr hardcast in 10mm ?

SolidBrass
12-02-2011, 16:45
Any word on Underwood developing a 200 gr hardcast in 10mm ?

I've been hoping but no word yet. The 200gr is a new offering but only in the XTP. Is a cool round but not really what I'm looking for. (I bought some anyway)

Yeah well some piece of trash hacked my credit card so now I'm awaiting a new credit cardMine was hacked too on Nov 27th.

rcd567
12-03-2011, 10:18
Found my first smilie last night. Was doing some reloading and ran one up the die. It wouldn't go in all the way so I looked at it. It had the beginings of a smilie on it. I forced it all the way through the stroke, (Rockchucker press) to see what would happen. It wasn't pretty. All my brass colored brass is Starline from Underwood. I've also got several hundred nickel cases from Remington. Thought I'd reload those up while I'm waiting for my Frame from Cold Bore Custom and my new Credit Card cause my old one got hacked.:crying:

In no way am I saying anything bad about Underwood Ammo. My stock Glock barrel bulges every case, that's why I bought a Lone Wolf barrel for my 10. It'll make reloading the cases easier. And I'm all about easy.:cool:

G29SF
12-03-2011, 12:51
I've been hoping but no word yet. The 200gr is a new offering but only in the XTP. Is a cool round but not really what I'm looking for. (I bought some anyway)

Mine was hacked too on Nov 27th.


My credit card was compromised recently as well. First fraudulent charges started on Nov 27th. I wonder if this is just a coincidence.

The funny (not so funny really) thing is I just got a new credit card... so the list of places I have used this card is very small. Less than a months worth of charges. Never used this CC company before so unless it was an inside job at Capital One (credit card company), and I have no reason to believe it was, this was compromised by one of the merchants I have used in the past month.

What bugs me the most is I have no idea what merchant did this... so I may get compromised again because I go back to the same place and use my card again.

The other pain in the rear is setting up my auto bill-pays all over gain. Arghh!

SolidBrass
12-03-2011, 21:43
My credit card was compromised recently as well. First fraudulent charges started on Nov 27th. I wonder if this is just a coincidence.

Well it's so hard to tell. I'm in the E-com business and part of my job is as primary fraud order detector. I've found that US credit card companies and bank are not helpful or proactive AT ALL when it comes to stopping these crimes. In fact, even if they detect the crime, they don't let the retailer know right away to stop the sale/shipment. They do send you 'charge back' paperwork months later that you just lost a bunch of money. I can see what country, bank, IP address, and lots of other info that helps in finding out if the deal is legit or not.

If someone stole your CC number and used my store, I find out by doing some online identity research that this is stolen card and call your bank to tell them they will say, "I'm sorry I cannot do anything as you are not the card holder. "

They don't say it but what is omitted despite argument is, "I will not contact them to ask if this sale is legit"

10 fan
12-06-2011, 15:11
Just ordered a Pro Chrono Digital today so I can check all of my ammo. I have always thought if they print it on the box it would be pretty close because they must know someone would check.Now that my head is out of the sand I'll check myself.I have spent alot of money at DT, time will tell if I spend any more.I'm new to this site and haven't heard of underwood or swampfox.How long have they been around?

_The_Shadow
12-06-2011, 15:52
10 fan, unfortunatly and suddenly Mike or Mudrush as known here on the forums, the owner of SwampFox Ammo past away recently and the company has gone with his passing! R.I.P. We lost a great friend to the 10mm community!:crying:

SolidBrass
12-06-2011, 20:03
Another Brand that Hickok45 shoots is Georgia Arms 10mm. Thy have been out of stock on some +P stuff in the past, but it looks like thy got lot's now. SADLY NO HEAVY LOADS.

[EDIT] I misposted and was quoted below. I didn't try to 'add to cart' and find out it's back ordered as usual.

rcd567
12-06-2011, 20:18
Just ordered a Pro Chrono Digital today so I can check all of my ammo. I have always thought if they print it on the box it would be pretty close because they must know someone would check.Now that my head is out of the sand I'll check myself.I have spent alot of money at DT, time will tell if I spend any more.I'm new to this site and haven't heard of underwood or swampfox.How long have they been around?

From work: the best I can do is direct you to 10mm ammo on facebook. From there go to his YouTube site. He's chronied a ton of 10mm loads. Double Tap and Underwood as well. He's also a member here. Kevin of Underwood is also a Member here as well. I shoot his 165 gr. JHP. It's moving near 1400fps and is an awesome round. Going to be ordering some of his 180 and 200 gr loads soon. Google Underwood Ammo and you'll find the site.

Luck to you.

rcd567
12-06-2011, 20:20
Another Brand that Hickok45 shoots is Georgia Arms 10mm. Thy have been out of stock on some +P stuff in the past, but it looks like thy got lot's now. SADLY NO HEAVY LOADS but still +P. Anyone shooting any of this latley. Price is great!



How hot is it???

I'm still showing that as out of stock, as is most of Georgia Arms stuff.:shocked:

SolidBrass
12-06-2011, 22:12
I'm still showing that as out of stock, as is most of Georgia Arms stuff.:shocked:

I'm sadly wrong. I still don't see a better bear defense round for the 10 mm than the Underwood 180 FMJ. Am I wrong? The total power is better than any other option. Nobody chrono's more power and it should penetrate better than anything else. No?

arushus
12-06-2011, 22:38
I'm sadly wrong. I still don't see a better bear defense round for the 10 mm than the Underwood 180 FMJ. Am I wrong? The total power is better than any other option. Nobody chrono's more power and it should penetrate better than anything else. No?

Personally, I really dont know, and their 180gr fmj would penetrate for days, so it is bound to be effective, but most of what Ive heard from other people is that a hardcast bullet tends to be better because when it encounters bone it will just bust on through as opposed to deflect like the fmj will...

SolidBrass
12-07-2011, 22:20
Here is a video view of 5 Underwood options. (I left the 180 FMJ 10mm out somehow)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbqNyRC3L4U

robert91922
12-08-2011, 00:25
Well it's so hard to tell. I'm in the E-com business and part of my job is as primary fraud order detector. I've found that US credit card companies and bank are not helpful or proactive AT ALL when it comes to stopping these crimes. In fact, even if they detect the crime, they don't let the retailer know right away to stop the sale/shipment. They do send you 'charge back' paperwork months later that you just lost a bunch of money. I can see what country, bank, IP address, and lots of other info that helps in finding out if the deal is legit or not.

If someone stole your CC number and used my store, I find out by doing some online identity research that this is stolen card and call your bank to tell them they will say, "I'm sorry I cannot do anything as you are not the card holder. "

They don't say it but what is omitted despite argument is, "I will not contact them to ask if this sale is legit"
That's why I buy over internet only when merchant accepts PayPal.
It's much safer, merchant does not see your CC numbers neither they travel through internet lines.

rcd567
12-08-2011, 07:40
That's why I buy over internet only when merchant accepts PayPal.
It's much safer, merchant does not see your CC numbers neither they travel through internet lines.

Uhmmmm, I hate to point this out to you but PayPal is extremely anti gun. So much so that if your audited and they find your buying ammo thru paypal they will freeze your account. Check out paypalsucks.com

And yes, I use them on limited things. Never for anything "gulp" evilgunevil related.:wow:

Jitterbug
12-08-2011, 08:19
Previously I had a bit of trouble with the CC and ordering gun stuff online...I kept getting multiple Fedx charges and some other weird stuff, this occurred mostly with ammo purchases and from several different companies so I don't want to mention any names...(Not Underwood).

I don't think it was the ammo companies, but the vendors they use to process CC cards.

One solution, I reload most everything now, the other was to purchase one of those Walmart cards where you just put a $100 or $200 bucks on it at a time.

It was a real PIA to get a new card and report fraudulent abuse.

PayPal is used only as a last resort, mostly Ebay stuff. Otherwise I avoid it like the plague, not just because of it's anti gun stance as if that weren't enough reason not to do business with them, but because I think it's a lousy system in general, not to mention they're annoying emails about my account.

SolidBrass
12-08-2011, 18:03
That's why I buy over internet only when merchant accepts PayPal.
It's much safer, merchant does not see your CC numbers neither they travel through internet lines.

I agree it's safer, but a lot of people screw up ordering that way. Most common is clicking pay at paypal but not waiting to be directed back to the store site to complete the sale. They also take a little more for themselves than credit card companies do. One other bad thing is with paypal you pay right away. If there is a delay (lets say 1 week) you're still charged when you place the order, usually. I to hate how clunky it is but better safe I guess.(my 2cents)

I worked in high end restaurants for years, I'm sure I've personally been handed credit cards by tens of thousands of people over the years. I take the card, walk away with it and come back with one of the little books for you to sign the slip. I could have stolen everyone of the numbers but I never did.

Recently a bunch of waiters and bartenders in NY were arrested for doing just that. A card swiper can fit in your palm and take all your data in less than a second. Hackers have stolen millions of cards that were used at retail store just by hacking there computers. So it's not just online.

Then they sell 100 numbers or what ever to a middleman who sells them online in forums such as this. $5-10 for a working card with billing address account information. Many fraud orders I find have the correct bill to name and address, sometime they even give the real card holders phone number. I personally called hundreds of people to tell them that there credit card has been stolen. I don't have to but I think it's the right thing to do.

SolidBrass
12-12-2011, 16:38
I am not kidding when I say the Subway workers were I like are all eastern European, (one from Romania) Keep this in mind when you read this story

Romanian hackers charged in Subway sandwich card-swipe scheme

More than 80,000 credit cards hit at over 150 Subway restaurants



http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45643520/ns/technology_and_science-security/#.TuaPk1bntUM

rcd567
12-12-2011, 17:48
:steamed:Your not going to believe this...I received and activated my new card on the 8th. Used it three times, once to a gunparts store, once to another gun parts store, and once with Underwood. I got a call this morning, a mere 4 days after activation that my card had been hacked again. Unfreakin believible.:steamed:

I've run every type of virus and malware software on my computer and it comes back clean. Don't get me wrong, I've been hit before. Usually it happens about once a year. Twice in 4 days???? Unheard of. Little pieces of elephant dung. I hope they get a bad case of the crabs, slip in the shower, and break their necks.:psycho:

Angry Fist
12-12-2011, 17:59
Reinstall (insert OS)

That ****in' sucks ass, dood.

JimIsland
12-12-2011, 18:28
:steamed:Your not going to believe this...I received and activated my new card on the 8th. Used it three times, once to a gunparts store, once to another gun parts store, and once with Underwood. I got a call this morning, a mere 4 days after activation that my card had been hacked again. Unfreakin believible.:steamed:

I've run every type of virus and malware software on my computer and it comes back clean. Don't get me wrong, I've been hit before. Usually it happens about once a year. Twice in 4 days???? Unheard of. Little pieces of elephant dung. I hope they get a bad case of the crabs, slip in the shower, and break their necks.:psycho:

Wow...that's sux. I guess I've been lucky. I have a low limit credit card(I think 2000) that I use for all on line purchases.
<<jim knocks on wood>>><JIM wood on knocks>

Glockz0r
12-12-2011, 19:05
In hopes of getting this thread back on topic... I plan on shooting some of Underwood's 180gr and 165gr JHP 10mm tomorrow out of my G20 w/ stock barrel. I will also be switching between stock spring and a #22 ISMI on a LW S/S guide rod just to see and feel the difference. Wish me luck in finding my brass. :supergrin:

It will be my first time shooting 10mm (traded for the G20 a couple weeks ago). :dancingbanana:

arushus
12-13-2011, 01:53
I just ordered some 200gr xtp and some 165gr jhp from underwood, cant wait to try them out!

glock20c10mm
12-13-2011, 02:46
In hopes of getting this thread back on topic... I plan on shooting some of Underwood's 180gr and 165gr JHP 10mm tomorrow out of my G20 w/ stock barrel. I will also be switching between stock spring and a #22 ISMI on a LW S/S guide rod just to see and feel the difference. Wish me luck in finding my brass. :supergrin:

It will be my first time shooting 10mm (traded for the G20 a couple weeks ago). :dancingbanana:
If the brass does stay in the same zip code you shoot from and you do find the cases, please also fill us in on any possible smilies and/or flattened primers.

Good Shooting!

arushus
12-13-2011, 03:26
All these fraudulent charges is ridiculous, I just had some also. I placed an order there early monday morning, and later that day two charges I know I didnt make hit my card, one from a place called fileserve, and one from yahoo flickr. Whatever it is that is causing all of these fraudulent charges, or I should say Whoever iscausing all these charges, it is really frustrating....I know how all of you feel!

post-apocalyptic
12-13-2011, 09:35
Not long after ordering my last batch of Underwood ammo, I too was a victim of fraudulent cc charges from overseas. I see a pattern here and don't think it's a coincidence. I suspect Underwood's website is not secure. We need to bring this to Kevin's attention.

rcd567
12-13-2011, 10:21
Not long after ordering my last batch of Underwood ammo, I too was a victim of fraudulent cc charges from overseas. I see a pattern here and don't think it's a coincidence. I suspect Underwood's website is not secure. We need to bring this to Kevin's attention.

Kevin is aware and is checking with his web designer as I write this.

Jitterbug
12-13-2011, 10:38
That's really too bad, as if small business owners didn't have enough to deal with...I went through this with another small ammo company, (not Underwood) my card was "hacked" two-three times.

My bank covered me, but still a PIA.

Glockz0r
12-13-2011, 16:45
If the brass does stay in the same zip code you shoot from and you do find the cases, please also fill us in on any possible smilies and/or flattened primers.

Good Shooting!

Today was a great day for shooting.... above freezing and no wind. I was able to find all 85 empties out of 85 rounds shot (saving the last 15 rounds for emergencies). The 10mm full power round is very impressive and is teaching me I need more work on my grip. I had couple brass eject to the left and one failure to eject during a mag dump that tore the brass lip but I chalk those up to not keeping a proper hold on the gun. After looking at all the empties I had a lot of glock smiles but also a few that didn't have a smile at all. I kept the #22 spring in the gun after 1 shot with the stock spring (that one round did not have a smile). The primers on all rounds were intact and looked normal.

Here are a couple pics...this is a G20 Gen3 with stock barrel. The brass pictured below were typical of the rest of the brass save a few that did not have a smile but slight bulges that one would expect with stock barrel.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b24/KamelRed/Mah%20Gunz/IMG_0755.jpg
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b24/KamelRed/Mah%20Gunz/IMG_0756.jpg
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b24/KamelRed/Mah%20Gunz/IMG_0746.jpg
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b24/KamelRed/Mah%20Gunz/IMG_0753.jpg

Accuracy was all over the place as I was freehand firing with a new (to me) gun and I am still getting used to the 10mm round & non-SF frame (or I'm just a terrible shot). :whistling:

arushus
12-13-2011, 17:54
I couldnt tell you for sure if that brass is reloadable or not, hopefully somebody who reloads will chime in as far as that goes...it might besome good practice for your accuracy if you get a .40sw conversion barrel and practice with .40cal, since it is a little more tame.

_The_Shadow
12-13-2011, 18:12
If there is a distinct line, it is starting to shear... Throw them in the recycle bin!

Glockz0r
12-13-2011, 18:15
I couldnt tell you for sure if that brass is reloadable or not, hopefully somebody who reloads will chime in as far as that goes...it might besome good practice for your accuracy if you get a .40sw conversion barrel and practice with .40cal, since it is a little more tame.

I am a decent shot with a G19 and G22 so I'm thinking the combo of 10mm recoil and larger frame is my issue. I am willing to drop the $$$ on full power 10mm to practice with because this is the reason I traded for a G20 in the first place. :supergrin:

Aftermarket barrels are in the cards for the future but for I also have my eyes on a G29SF so I might hold off till I have my ducks in a row till I decide what barrels to get for which gun.

If there is a distinct line, it is starting to shear... Throw them in the recycle bin!

A large majority have a line. :crying:

But I am not into reloading so other then potential sell/trading value its not a big loss on my end.

rcd567
12-13-2011, 18:20
Those won't reload worth a darn. That's the reason I bought a lone wolf barrel. You could see if Underwood would reload them for you, but I tried running some of mine that look like that through a RCBS rockchucker single stage and it just crushes them.

glock20c10mm
12-13-2011, 18:51
Today was a great day for shooting.... above freezing and no wind. I was able to find all 85 empties out of 85 rounds shot (saving the last 15 rounds for emergencies). The 10mm full power round is very impressive and is teaching me I need more work on my grip. I had couple brass eject to the left and one failure to eject during a mag dump that tore the brass lip but I chalk those up to not keeping a proper hold on the gun. After looking at all the empties I had a lot of glock smiles but also a few that didn't have a smile at all. I kept the #22 spring in the gun after 1 shot with the stock spring (that one round did not have a smile). The primers on all rounds were intact and looked normal.

Here are a couple pics...this is a G20 Gen3 with stock barrel. The brass pictured below were typical of the rest of the brass save a few that did not have a smile but slight bulges that one would expect with stock barrel.

Accuracy was all over the place as I was freehand firing with a new (to me) gun and I am still getting used to the 10mm round & non-SF frame (or I'm just a terrible shot). :whistling:
TYVM for sharing, and with great pics!

Would have been great if you would have a chronograph for some velocity comparison to Underwood's claims, then again, since your shooting needs a little work maybe good you didn't just yet for the off chance you may have had to replace some chrono parts.:)

To all you 10mm reloading specialists out there, what say you about the primers in the pics? Flattened? Not bad? I've got some DT nickle plated cases that have flattened primers in them but don't feel I've looked at enough to make judgement on the ones in the pic from Glockz0r. Thoughts?

kjunderwood
12-13-2011, 18:57
Kevin is aware and is checking with his web designer as I write this.

On the phone most of today with my web-designer/host of the network... I'm not a web developer and am not completely savvy with all of the terminology, but to the best of my understanding the problem is this...
Our original website was not "secure" and had no real reason to be being that there was no shopping cart or any kind of information to post, upload, etc. Had any of you bookmarked the previous site (which was the same web address) and had it on your favorites to revisit? They are telling me that is one way in. That with the new site being secure the bookmark coding would allow the old links to come in through the security. Also, that it has already been updated and resolved so that way is no longer possible

Again - I'm not a computer wizard, so my phrasing and terminology may be off here, but I hope you get the point. Any other information you can give me would be appreciated. The amount of disappointment I have in the company I hired to design this site cannot be put accurately into words that are fitting to be posted on a public forum.

If the three of you (arushus, post-apocalyptic, rcd567) and any others experiencing similar fraudulent charges - could also private message me, or email the business account I do have a bit of information for you. My deepest apologies for this headache!

Glockz0r
12-13-2011, 19:18
TYVM for sharing, and with great pics!

Would have been great if you would have a chronograph for some velocity comparison to Underwood's claims, then again, since your shooting needs a little work maybe good you didn't just yet for the off chance you may have had to replace some chrono parts.:)

To all you 10mm reloading specialists out there, what say you about the primers in the pics? Flattened? Not bad? I've got some DT nickle plated cases that have flattened primers in them but don't feel I've looked at enough to make judgement on the ones in the pic from Glockz0r. Thoughts?

I took a look at the brass again, and after googling what to look for, I have to say the primers are indeed flattened. All 165gr that I've fired have flat primers while the 180gr are half and half. I also observed that the 180gr brass has very minor smiles or no smiles at all while the 165gr is almost all creased.

glock20c10mm
12-13-2011, 19:36
I took a look at the brass again, and after googling what to look for, I have to say the primers are indeed flattened. All 165gr that I've fired have flat primers while the 180gr are half and half. I also observed that the 180gr brass has very minor smiles or no smiles at all while the 165gr is almost all creased.
Thanks for the update and clarification between the two different loads. I meant to ask about the two different loads possibly differing but forgot when I submitted my last post.

Here are DT 135gr loads showing 2 primers flattened to different degrees compared to a new unfired one, the 2 shot from my G29 (100% bone stock). Most of the cases didn't have flattened primers noticeable to ME, just a few out of 100. More and more lately I'm keeping a close eye on pressure sign type stuff.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s271/glock20c10mm/Ammo%20Pics/Comparison-crop.jpg

post-apocalyptic
12-13-2011, 20:24
On the phone most of today with my web-designer/host of the network... I'm not a web developer and am not completely savvy with all of the terminology, but to the best of my understanding the problem is this...
Our original website was not "secure" and had no real reason to be being that there was no shopping cart or any kind of information to post, upload, etc. Had any of you bookmarked the previous site (which was the same web address) and had it on your favorites to revisit? They are telling me that is one way in. That with the new site being secure the bookmark coding would allow the old links to come in through the security. Also, that it has already been updated and resolved so that way is no longer possible

Again - I'm not a computer wizard, so my phrasing and terminology may be off here, but I hope you get the point. Any other information you can give me would be appreciated. The amount of disappointment I have in the company I hired to design this site cannot be put accurately into words that are fitting to be posted on a public forum.

If the three of you (arushus, post-apocalyptic, rcd567) and any others experiencing similar fraudulent charges - could also private message me, or email the business account I do have a bit of information for you. My deepest apologies for this headache!

Speaking for myself, thank you for your prompt attention regarding this issue. Talk about fantastic and responsive customer service. Bravo, Kevin! :thumbsup:

I will PM you to share details soonish... right now I am partying my gringo a$s off in the Dominican Republic and my internet access is "fair" and infrequent at best.

I'll be back in los Estados Unidos in less than a week.

brausso
12-13-2011, 20:28
Not long after ordering my last batch of Underwood ammo, I too was a victim of fraudulent cc charges from overseas. I see a pattern here and don't think it's a coincidence. I suspect Underwood's website is not secure. We need to bring this to Kevin's attention.

My malware/anti virus protection and web browser won't even let me go on their site. I sure as hell ain't ordering anything online, but would like to make a purchase over the phone if possible. Unless Kevin is the culprit...just kidding.

post-apocalyptic
12-13-2011, 20:34
...I sure as hell ain't ordering anything online, but would like to make a purchase over the phone if possible. Unless Kevin is the culprit...just kidding.

Ha..ha. Not funny, man. :eyebrow:

Underwood Ammo's been a godsend for me, since I don't reload and want decently priced full-power 10mm.

What anti-malware program and browser do you use?

arushus
12-13-2011, 20:56
Speaking for myself, thank you for your prompt attention regarding this issue. Talk about fantastic and responsive customer service. Bravo, Kevin! :thumbsup:

I will PM you to share details soonish... right now I am partying my gringo a$s off in the Dominican Republic and my internet access is "fair" and infrequent at best.

I'll be back in los Estados Unidos in less than a week.

I agree! The customer service their is great! Other companies should take a cue from him!

stevus
12-14-2011, 05:09
Im new to the 10mm .I have some underwood ammo but havent recieved my G20 back from Glock so I havent actually shot it yet . .I understand about the smilie face on the case but can someone explain a flattened primer

dryfly
12-14-2011, 08:50
Kevin emailed me last night telling me no problems no worries ordering over the phone...just have to have an account on his site that gives him name address shipping info....Yes great customer service ! Kudos...

10 fan
12-14-2011, 09:03
I took a look at the brass again, and after googling what to look for, I have to say the primers are indeed flattened. All 165gr that I've fired have flat primers while the 180gr are half and half. I also observed that the 180gr brass has very minor smiles or no smiles at all while the 165gr is almost all creased.
Do you know why there is a difference between the two loads? The calculated recoil is about the same. I too would like to know the reason for flattened primers.

ALBin517
12-14-2011, 09:12
I tried browsing the website last night for the first time. But my laptop advised me that the site was unsafe.

stevus
12-14-2011, 10:00
cant wait to shoot my ammo form underwood , No problems with my CC so far

arushus
12-14-2011, 10:25
I had bookmarked their website sometime before september 22, and when I purchased ammo from them thislast time I went inthrough that old bookmark, apparently there is some way for hackers to get in since I bookmarked the page before their new website and security was up...

kjunderwood
12-14-2011, 16:57
I had bookmarked their website sometime before september 22, and when I purchased ammo from them thislast time I went inthrough that old bookmark, apparently there is some way for hackers to get in since I bookmarked the page before their new website and security was up...

I sincerely appreciate the understanding shown here.

Still hashing things out - in fact, all today our web developers were running tests trying to find ways into our site to make sure the security is working. Mind you, at this point, I'm not taking their word for gold and am still holding their feet to the fire with this, but they are working on it.

I have also been informed that they have corrected the issues with the old bookmarks being used to access the site - that is no longer a way to breach our security. Thankfully.

I'll be sure to keep all posted.

SolidBrass
12-14-2011, 18:47
Would have been great if you would have a chronograph for some velocity comparison to Underwood's claims

I keep posting this but the ARE online on youtube. drsjr1969 posts videos of all the 10mm rounds he can get his hands on.

Underwood is the only brand I've seen him shoot that has beat the speed posted on the box.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGF4-wBXo_M&feature=g-user-u&context=G13188UCGXQYbcTJ33bv469dEg6cr-mjnF6oPosfPdU1zQuDCOU

*But I agree his website has been compromised

Major websites and indeed 99% of web $'s are processed by very large card processing companies that are not likely suspect. (targets and victims at times but not suspects) I would guess some malware is at work.

I've notice the ammo industry in general has lots of ''corrupted' ' site when I browse for ammo info. Why are they targeted more than others?

glock20c10mm
12-14-2011, 19:20
I keep posting this but the ARE online on youtube. drsjr1969 posts videos of all the 10mm rounds he can get his hands on.
I'm very well aware and have referenced that data numerous times. I am still interested to see if things change over time as they have with other ammo manufacturers. But thanks.

SolidBrass
12-14-2011, 20:01
I'm very well aware and have referenced that data numerous times. I am still interested to see if things change over time as they have with other ammo manufacturers. But thanks.

I know he has a standing offer, send him 5 rounds of anything he hasn't chrono'd he will do it for you. Or he swaps some federal (I think) in 50/box sizes for anything to chrono. He hasn't shot the 200gn or the 135 Underwood so that would be an option.

*I'm sure he will re-chrono the entire underwood line in one video if anyone want's to donate 5 rounds of each 10mm. But I believe his underwood chrono was just a few months ago.

kjunderwood
12-14-2011, 21:18
*But I agree his website has been compromised

He should also go to bleepingcomputer 's web site and get some help if it's his own PC that has a trojan. I'm in the business and worry about these thing all the time. He needs expert help to get this fixed. He has a really nice web site, you just wonder if some guy in India or Eastern Europe that might have designed it left a back door.

Has anyone noticed if you get the https, the s being the key here, in the address bar when checking out?

Major websites and indeed 99% of web $'s are processed by very large card processing companies that are not likely suspect. (targets and victims at times but not suspects) I would guess some malware is at work.

I've notice the ammo industry in general has lots of ''corrupted' ' site when I browse for ammo info. Why are they targeted more than others?

The site was designed by a company here in Charleston, WV from the ground up - a lot of what we asked be incorporated in the website meant them writing and designing software specifically for us, which is why it took so stinkin' long to get it up and going. I've refrained from mentioning them by name as a gentleman, but the potential damage this is doing (and could further do) to our reputation as a secure site has been very sternly brought to their attention. I can, however, say with confidence that any breach in the security is not an inside job. Just some low-life hacker.

Any specific information or suggestions you can give (from working in the field) would be greatly appreciated. I'll gladly pass it along to my "team"...

arushus
12-14-2011, 21:37
The site was designed by a company here in Charleston, WV from the ground up - a lot of what we asked be incorporated in the website meant them writing and designing software specifically for us, which is why it took so stinkin' long to get it up and going. I've refrained from mentioning them by name as a gentleman, but the potential damage this is doing (and could further do) to our reputation as a secure site has been very sternly brought to their attention. I can, however, say with confidence that any breach in the security is not an inside job. Just some low-life hacker.

Any specific information or suggestions you can give (from working in the field) would be greatly appreciated. I'll gladly pass it along to my "team"...


Thanks for taking this seriously kevin, and not just brushing it off as "better you than me".

Your handling of this has only bettered your reputation as far as Im concerned. Youve proven, more than once, that you are more than willing to help with any issues whatsoever.

SolidBrass
12-15-2011, 16:21
I spoke with Kevin today. Good news is things are now fully secure. A good guy who spent quite a bit of time talking to me about what transpired.

He is :steamed: and :embarassed: but is making a real effort to make things right by there customers. If your CC was compromised you should send him an email.

Since I too am in the web industry. My conclusion is he has done a good job at addressing this issue. We talked about blocking IP address from foreign countries (where the hacking might have occurred) as he only ships within the US anyway.

I only hope it doesn't hurt his business to badly. If I were a hacker, I don't think ammo companies would be my target, lest the hacker becomes a target on his own.

Crosseyed Shooter
12-15-2011, 17:03
Dec.3 I was notified that my CC was being used as well. I had purchased some Underwood Ammo. This must be the common thread.

kjunderwood
12-15-2011, 17:47
I spoke with Kevin today. Good news is things are now fully secure. A good guy who spent quite a bit of time talking to me about what transpired.

He is :steamed: and :embarassed: but is making a real effort to make things right by there customers. If your CC was compromised you should send him an email.

Since I too am in the web industry with a bit more experience than he. My conclusion is he has done a good job at addressing this issue. We talked about blocking IP address from foreign countries (where the hacking might have occurred) as he only ships within the US anyway.

I only hope it doesn't hurt his business to badly.

Again, pleasure to talk with you.
To let everyone know...after running several tests, spending an incredible amount of the past 2 days on the phone and scanning everything in site - my web team found how this snot-nosed dirt bag was getting in...from the Philippines, no less. Unfortunately for me (but fortunately for him) we don't have a name or address for this loser, but we found him. Jerk. We also were able to watch him try (in vain) to continue to access the site in the same way he'd gotten in previously and was defeated.

Chalk one up for the good guys.
After 3 days of panic and headache I finally have the answers I want and the security I was promised from day 1. Breathing a big sigh of relief.

arushus
12-15-2011, 18:22
Again, pleasure to talk with you.
To let everyone know...after running several tests, spending an incredible amount of the past 2 days on the phone and scanning everything in site - my web team found how this snot-nosed dirt bag was getting in...from the Philippines, no less. Unfortunately for me (but fortunately for him) we don't have a name or address for this loser, but we found him. Jerk. We also were able to watch him try (in vain) to continue to access the site in the same way he'd gotten in previously and was defeated.

Chalk one up for the good guys.
After 3 days of panic and headache I finally have the answers I want and the security I was promised from day 1. Breathing a big sigh of relief.

Good for you kevin! Glad to hear you guys figured it out!

You coming forth and admitting there was a problem, and taking the necessary steps to correct it, both on your site and with the customer that were affected, speaks VOLUMES about the type of person you are, and the manner in which you operate you business!

Even though I was targeted, I am coming away from this with a smile on my face, feeling very pleased and satisfied.

Guys like that jerk-off deserve a special corner of hell...

SolidBrass
12-15-2011, 19:40
Dang!! I forgot to ask him for a 200gr hardcast 10mm while I had him on the phone.

** Update: Google now deems the site safe.

It's also https: for the whole site, the way all the big boys are moving.

kjunderwood
12-16-2011, 19:28
Another update...
Some of you may notice that when attempting to visit our site, your browser gives an error message. If you use "www" before just entering underwoodammo.com it will take you right in. Sorry for yet another inconvenience.

rcd567
12-17-2011, 07:42
Kevin,
I've discovered yet another problem with your website. It says your out of MY favorite round...the 165 gr. JHP.:wow: First it was hackers, now it's pirates. Or maybe even worse?????:shocked:
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j163/rcd567/10511031.jpg

kjunderwood
12-17-2011, 16:57
Kevin,
I've discovered yet another problem with your website. It says your out of MY favorite round...the 165 gr. JHP.:wow: First it was hackers, now it's pirates. Or maybe even worse?????:shocked:
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j163/rcd567/10511031.jpg

I just fixed that problem!

rcd567
12-17-2011, 19:03
Hopefully the third time is a charm. Placed an order on my brand new card. I'll know by tomorrow or Monday at the lastest if it was hacked. It'll be the only charge on there.

arushus
12-18-2011, 00:00
Hopefully the third time is a charm. Placed an order on my brand new card. I'll know by tomorrow or Monday at the lastest if it was hacked. It'll be the only charge on there.

Im thinkin that may not be possible after all the work kevin has put into this!

rcd567
12-18-2011, 08:15
Im thinkin that may not be possible after all the work kevin has put into this!


I'm praying that all goes well. Kevin is an ammo maker, an excellent ammo maker. He bought a service from a web page developer to build a web site, make it operational, and maintain it. It is them that I don't completely trust.:shocked:

I'm also fairly certain a line has been drawn in the sand. If problems don't go away...the web developer will.

SolidBrass
12-21-2011, 21:32
We suggest you use an alternate browser when viewing our website.

Download Firefox

Download Internet Explorer

You can attempt to view the Underwood Ammunition website by clicking this link Go to Underwood Ammo

However, you may see the following error when going to the website:



The Chrome browser uses "False Start" which is a method of speeding up SSL handshakes enabling websites that use the secured protocol
to load faster and removing some of the overhead of using an encrypted connection.

Google has decided that "False Start" should be a web standard, as it cuts 30-85 milliseconds off of SSL handshakes per page. Because of
this, Google is not going give an option to disable "False Start" in the menu system.

What this means for websites using secure protocol (https://) to protect sensitive customer information is that users will need to
use another browser.

Kindest regards,
Underwood Ammunition

But Chrome is the #1 browser on the web in the US. I won't blame you for being careful and Chrome is not as privacy friendly as firefox or even IE.

Just placed an order with my new CC. Needed some hot FMJ's. These should help "break in" the G20 with sadly to few round threw her. (She's not named yet, any thoughts?)

No need to waste JHP for plinkin and range work. It's also probably a better bear defense round that any other 10mm Underwood offerings anyway until his 220gr hardcast comes out. (hope, hope)

rcd567
12-21-2011, 22:06
I'm praying that all goes well. Kevin is an ammo maker, an excellent ammo maker. He bought a service from a web page developer to build a web site, make it operational, and maintain it. It is them that I don't completely trust.:shocked:

I'm also fairly certain a line has been drawn in the sand. If problems don't go away...the web developer will.


Received my order, no problems with my credit card. A BIG THANK YOU to Kevin.

PS...any news on my Werewolf ammo?

G29SF
12-22-2011, 08:03
But Chrome is the #1 browser on the web in the US. I won't blame you for being careful and Chrome is not as privacy friendly as firefox or even IE.

Just placed an order with my new CC. Needed some hot FMJ's. These should help "break in" the G20 with sadly to few round threw her. (She's not named yet, any thoughts?)

No need to waste JHP for plinkin and range work. It's also probably a better bear defense round that any other 10mm Underwood offerings anyway until his 220gr hardcast comes out. (hope, hope)

If web developers are blaming security breaches on a browser they should be fired.

Their system and data store is/was not secure. Perceived browser flaws are/were not the problem.

SolidBrass
12-22-2011, 21:36
Kevin,

I like to carry the G20 in the woods. Is your 180 FMJ 10mm your best offer for bear defense?

** And yes, I'm going to keep asking :)

kjunderwood
12-29-2011, 22:38
Kevin,

I like to carry the G20 in the woods. Is your 180 FMJ 10mm your best offer for bear defense?

** And yes, I'm going to keep asking :)

Either the 180gr or the 200gr would be my recommendation.
Currently, the 200gr is sold out, waiting for my bullets to come in. We have Hornady XTP 180gr JHPs that should be up on the website sometime in the next 24hrs if you'd be interested in that. Putting a LOT of hours in on the website here recently for some big changes and massive improvements. Thus my lack of posting in the last week or so. Stay tuned.

arushus
12-30-2011, 10:46
Mr. Underwood,

Just out of curiosity, is the 10mm your fastest growing cartridge in terms of sales and product expansion?

kjunderwood
12-30-2011, 13:24
Mr. Underwood,

Just out of curiosity, is the 10mm your fastest growing cartridge in terms of sales and product expansion?

Without question.
We've got quite a few "best sellers"...but even there, 10mm remains #1.

rcd567
12-31-2011, 10:22
Without question.
We've got quite a few "best sellers"...but even there, 10mm remains #1.

With the 10, our options are somewhat limited. Your coming in at the right time as the 10 seems to be increasing in popularity. And your price point is murdering the competition.:thumbsup:

benji
12-31-2011, 16:11
I had a couple of rounds of the 180 gr JHP with the primer dented but they didn't fire today out of my G20. Anybody else had this problem? I have never had this happen with my G20 with any other ammo in the past or any other ammo I shot today. I want to love Underwood for the price but this has me worried!

arushus
12-31-2011, 16:18
I had a couple of rounds of the 180 gr JHP with the primer dented but they didn't fire today out of my G20. Anybody else had this problem? I have never had this happen with my G20 with any other ammo in the past or any other ammo I shot today. I want to love Underwood for the price but this has me worried!

Never heard of this before with Underwood. Did you try firing it more than once? A second strike may be all they need...I would contact Kevin Underwood about this...He is very customer oriented and very good about rectifying any issues regarding his ammo and any manufacturing defects they may have.

dooga
12-31-2011, 16:21
You guys are making me ache for a 10. 20 or 29? I am thinking a 20 for hunting? 29 for CC? I am leaning toward the full size service pistol. Maybe I will wait until I either become rich or have space to reload.

rcd567
12-31-2011, 16:33
I had a couple of rounds of the 180 gr JHP with the primer dented but they didn't fire today out of my G20. Anybody else had this problem? I have never had this happen with my G20 with any other ammo in the past or any other ammo I shot today. I want to love Underwood for the price but this has me worried!

I haven't. I've fired a bunch of his 165, 180, and 200. In the past, it's been my experience that lite primer strikes are the fault of the gun, not the ammo. May want to check the gun over really good.

kjunderwood
01-02-2012, 22:14
I had a couple of rounds of the 180 gr JHP with the primer dented but they didn't fire today out of my G20. Anybody else had this problem? I have never had this happen with my G20 with any other ammo in the past or any other ammo I shot today. I want to love Underwood for the price but this has me worried!

I wrote you a response in your open thread, but want to mention here as well, if you have time to give me a call in the next couple days at your convenience - I'd be interested to talk with you about the issue you described and get to the bottom of this. Never heard of this happening.
Thanks!

benji
01-03-2012, 04:05
I'll try to give you a call later. I'm hoping it was just a fluke set of circumstances and doesn't happen again. I've never had a problem with either gun before. I keep both guns clean and didn't notice anything weird when I cleaned them after the last range session. Hopefully it never happens again! I've got another box of your 10mm and 9mm ammo to try sometime soon. I'll let you (& fellow GTers) know how it goes.

Lee-online
01-03-2012, 16:46
I ordered 12 boxes today, with only $17 shipping it looks like I found my new supplier.

SolidBrass
01-04-2012, 18:19
I ordered 12 boxes today, with only $17 shipping it looks like I found my new supplier.

You are lucky. So close to WV you probably have them already.:wavey: I'm on the 5 business days delivery schedule. At least I'm close to Lone Wolf...

Did you mix it up, or buy all the same loads?

Lee-online
01-04-2012, 19:45
I got 6 of the 135 and 6 of 180. I will get some 200 when it is stock.
Should be here tomorrow but the tracking shows it left town and is now heading away from here. Possibly put on wrong truck???

rcd567
01-05-2012, 07:49
I got 6 of the 135 and 6 of 180. I will get some 200 when it is stock.
Should be here tomorrow but the tracking shows it left town and is now heading away from here. Possibly put on wrong truck???


Naw, the UPS guy is my uncle and I bribed him into diverting those 12 boxes to Iowa.:rofl:













I'm just hackin on you. Don't worry they'll make it.:wavey:

G29SF
01-05-2012, 08:55
I had a couple of rounds of the 180 gr JHP with the primer dented but they didn't fire today out of my G20. Anybody else had this problem? I have never had this happen with my G20 with any other ammo in the past or any other ammo I shot today. I want to love Underwood for the price but this has me worried!

I took my brother to the range after Christmas and sent about 300 rounds of Underwood downrange. Not one malfunction.

Also shot some DT 9x25 Dillon.

In all, it was a great day shooting. Hats off to Underwood (again) for his full power 10mm ammunition.

bc5000
01-05-2012, 17:34
Has anyone heard if Underwood plans to make any hardcast 10mm ammo?

Lee-online
01-05-2012, 19:08
I got the ammo today, looks like I'll be a the range this weekend. :cool:

rcd567
01-05-2012, 19:40
I got the ammo today, looks like I'll be a the range this weekend. :cool:


Sure...that Uncle of mine was never very good at following directions.:dunno:

kjunderwood
01-09-2012, 12:55
**Sending this email out to our customers who signed up for the newsletter...giving you guys the first look and the big news - WE CHANGED HOSTS! New website, now works in Google Chrome, etc...**

A quick note to our customers:

Today we have moved our website to a new host. We have made it our goal to provide not only a visually appealing website with smooth functionality, but to also have a host that takes the security of our site as seriously as we do. We believe we have found them and after weeks of hard work and diligent testing - we made the official switch today. We have been searching for a capable host with a strong reputation and the latest advancements in software. To put it simply, we are incredibly excited and confident in our new host’s abilities.

I'm expecting that the transferring will cause slight hiccups in the site as we get used to the new setting. We absolutely want to try and inconvenience as little customers as possible. If you experience any issues with the new site, please notify us immediately.

To thank you for your understanding and continued support, we have a coupon code to offer you.

You can either use the code: take5 - which will give you 5% off your total purchase OR you can use the code: newweb20 - to receive $20 off your purchase of $100 or more. These codes cannot be combined and will expire on January 31, 2012.

Again, thank you for your business!
Happy New Year!
Underwood Ammo

yellolab
01-09-2012, 13:35
[QUOTE=kjunderwood;18407331
Today we have moved our website to a new host. We have made it our goal to provide not only a visually appealing website with smooth functionality, but to also have a host that takes the security of our site as seriously as we do. We believe we have found them and after weeks of hard work and diligent testing - we made the official switch today. Underwood Ammo[/QUOTE]

I have not ordered anything from you before- based on security concerns with your site.

Now that you made the switch.....I just placed my first order.

Kevin

10-acious
01-09-2012, 14:07
The site is much smoother. Great job!

I also just placed my first order.

Thanks K.

arushus
01-09-2012, 14:39
Oddly enough, Im having trouble getting on the website. My browser is acting as though it isnt even there...somebody call the national guard, fema, department of homeland security, I dont care, just get somebody down here to fix this! I need my daily underwood ammo website fix!!!

Morley Menthols
01-09-2012, 14:43
Today I talked with Kevin on the phone and he assured me that his new website was secure. I made an order for 11 boxes of 10mm ammunition using the new website while talking with Kevin. I was one of the hacker victims because of a previous order and had to get a new credit card. Kevin is in my opinion a very decent person and will do everything he can to satisfy customers. I have chronographed his 10mm ammo twice and his advertised velocities are very acceptable, and I am very picky about my ammo! I have shot boards, phone books, and other various objects to satisfy my curiosity with what the bullets with do. Bottom line...I sure as heck would not want to be shot with this ammo! 10mm ammunition from Underwood Ammo is the real deal. I have been shooting 10mm ammo for 25 years and this is the best you can get for the money.

kjunderwood
01-09-2012, 16:58
Oddly enough, Im having trouble getting on the website. My browser is acting as though it isnt even there...somebody call the national guard, fema, department of homeland security, I dont care, just get somebody down here to fix this! I need my daily underwood ammo website fix!!!

Are you still having problems finding it?

DWS22
01-09-2012, 17:10
Are you still having problems finding it?

............Now I can't even access Underwood with I.E. or Chrome...:dunno:

Lee-online
01-09-2012, 17:40
I have no problems with IE 9.

DeLo
01-09-2012, 17:45
They upgraded their site today, it was posted on the book face.

Pointshoot
01-09-2012, 18:52
I had problems with their website. It doesnt show my recent order (but that was called in by phone. I had to call in because the website wouldnt take my credit card order online for some reason). When I try to use the alert button to tell me when my choice of ammo is in it says I first need to sign in, when Ive already done so. So they seem to be having website problems. - - But I enjoyed talking to the owner Keven Underwood and was impressed by their customer service. I'm looking forward to shooting the ammo. - - - Has anyone run their 200gr XTP through a chrono out of a Glock 20 ? (I need to buy a new chrono.) Thanks

SolidBrass
01-09-2012, 18:55
I'm able to surf site in Chrome and Firefox without issue...

kjunderwood
01-09-2012, 19:14
............Now I can't even access Underwood with I.E. or Chrome...:dunno:

I've got it up on Chrome as I type. Hmm...if you continue having trouble, please let me know. I'll put in a call to tech. support.

rcd567
01-09-2012, 19:37
I've got it up on ie 9 and gchrome. Haven't ordered anything yet, have to wait until the wife's not watching.:whistling:

SolidBrass
01-09-2012, 19:39
VERY fast Keven Nice choice in host.

Glockz0r
01-10-2012, 03:28
New site looks great and runs fine in Firefox.

arushus
01-10-2012, 03:45
Dunno why, but I stillcant get on it. I am using a Blackberry Playbook, but this is all I ever use to get online, and make orders with. Never had any problems viewing other websites in the past...

kjunderwood
01-10-2012, 17:46
Dunno why, but I stillcant get on it. I am using a Blackberry Playbook, but this is all I ever use to get online, and make orders with. Never had any problems viewing other websites in the past...

I'll make a call tomorrow with that info and tell them about it. Want to make sure any/everyone can access the site. Sorry for the trouble!

10-acious
01-11-2012, 14:31
Received my ammo this morning!

Thank you, Mr. Underwood.

arushus
01-11-2012, 18:14
I'm able to get on the website, looking good!

527varmint
01-11-2012, 18:41
I did not read this whole thing but 30 bucks for full power 200 gr xtp! They just got a new customer!

I believe that the other sellers just jack up the price and could deliver it at the same prices as underwood if they where not so gready. Now that we have choices DT and swampfox are going to have to lower prices or they won't be having any customers.

I will order up some xtp. I realized I carry WFNGC and its illegal to carry it while hunting in CA because its not expanding. Even though the 10mm is for defense I would not want to be hasseled. Plus the 200 gr WFNGC DT from the stock barrel is not very accurate at all.

brausso
01-11-2012, 21:31
I ran through a box of 135gr today out of my G20 and G29. I don't have a chrono but I know those suckers were humming. Just ordered 8 more boxes including 200gr xtp and 357 sig.

I have to say Kevin is a standup guy. I'm on the west coast and he's on the east coast. I had some questions and he had me call well after 9:00 his time. Good guy and very friendly. Will continue to do business again and again. I can't wait to see their product line expand even more

swinokur
01-12-2012, 04:14
Uh, Swampfox is out of business Mike passed suddenly Nov 5

rcd567
01-12-2012, 08:38
This morning I got in on both ie9 and chrome. Sirens started going off though???

Oh wait, I've been sabotaged by my wife!:wow: I'm now on a quest to find and unhook the siren when I go on Kevin's site.:rofl:

10-acious
01-12-2012, 15:57
Ordered another 10 boxes! Thanks, Kevin.

kjunderwood
01-12-2012, 22:30
Finally got a shipment in....now back in stock: Gold Dot 10mms, Hornady 200gr XTPs and the Nosler 135grs.

Taterhead
01-12-2012, 22:36
Website looks great Kevin! If I didn't handload everything I shoot, you would definitely have my business. I'll see if I can get some referrals going your way though.

arushus
01-13-2012, 06:23
Finally got a shipment in....now back in stock: Gold Dot 10mms, Hornady 200gr XTPs and the Nosler 135grs.

Gold Dots!!!! Very Nice kevin!!!


By the way, has anyone chrono'd the 200gr xtp load lately? Last I saw, it was having a lil bit of trouble, kept coming in slightly under published velocities...Im not hatin or tryin to start a controversy, just curious how fast the 200gr'ers are runnin..

10-acious
01-13-2012, 18:15
Finally got a shipment in....now back in stock: Gold Dot 10mms, Hornady 200gr XTPs and the Nosler 135grs.

Ordered 4 boxes of them Gold Dots. Kevin, you're getting me in serious trouble with the better-half. :supergrin:

SolidBrass
01-13-2012, 21:35
Dang. Gold dot new online, I'm not sure why people demand this. Any 10 JHP will destroy a human target effectively. The 10 is great for self defense, but it is best be deployed as a wildlife defense round, hunting or other overkill reasons such as body armor. I'd use my .45 acp if I wanted simple man stopping power.

C'mon man! Lets do a hardcast 200+gn or TMJ. Aftermarket barrel for hardcast is standard, so just do it with that disclosure. My 6" G20 is begging for some lead.

ratchetjaw
01-22-2012, 13:35
just ordered me 6 boxes of 180 fmj and 5 of 165 sabers. Havent got to shoot my g29 yet. So want to break it/ me in right :)

SolidBrass
01-22-2012, 17:27
just ordered me 6 boxes of 180 fmj and 5 of 165 sabers. Havent got to shoot my g29 yet. So want to break it/ me in right :)

On that note, I've heard don't use high power ammo during break in (if Glocks need such a thing). I'm still breaking in one of my clocks and wonder what others thinks.

swinokur
01-22-2012, 17:53
If a Glock needs to be broken in, it's defective
\
send it back

arushus
01-22-2012, 18:43
No such thing as a Glock "break in period"...

Kegs
01-22-2012, 19:40
If a Glock needs to be broken in, it's defective
\
send it to Kegs

FTFY N/C

This Kevin Underwood fella is gonna be busy as hell filling orders for people from this forum.

Next time you see him he will be driving a Bentley. :rofl:

SolidBrass
01-22-2012, 20:25
deleted

rcd567
01-23-2012, 07:58
Dang. Gold dot new online, I'm not sure why people demand this. Any 10 JHP will destroy a human target effectively. The 10 is great for self defense, but it is best be deployed as a wildlife defense round, hunting or other overkill reasons such as body armor. I'd use my .45 acp if I wanted simple man stopping power.

C'mon man! Lets do a hardcast 200+gn or TMJ. Aftermarket barrel for hardcast is standard, so just do it with that disclosure. My 6" G20 is begging for some lead.


Chances are, you'll never have to deploy your concealed weapon in defense of your life. Either against a human nor animal. But if you do, you may have to do so thru a barrier. Auto glass, dry wall, sheet metal, or heavy muscle and bone with an animal. Gold Dots are bonded and respond better under these circumstances.

arushus
01-23-2012, 10:13
A buddy and I fired around 150-160 rounds of various underwood selections a few days ago: 165gr jhp, 200gr xtp, 180gr GS jhp, 180gr fmj..all fired consistently and grouped very well! I was usng my lwd barrel, so there werent any smiles, but nearly every primer was flattened to some extent! And maybe Im just dumb, but I really like the primers being flattened, it assures me the round is truly full power! I had a friend with me, who used to own a s&w sigma 9mm, needless to say, he was very surprised by the 10mm power and Glock accuracy! His Sigma literally couldnt hit a paper plate from 7 yards. When I started flooding his brain with 10mm power facts, such as, it being more powerful than a 357magnum, and more energy at 100 yards than a 45 at point blank, etc...He was having a hard time believing me until I proved it to him by showing him energy data from online sources. Anyway, he and I thoroughly enjoyed ourselves! (at my expense, but thats ok, underwood is such a good deal that I dont mind as much, all in all, it cost me about $80 in ammo that day...)

ratchetjaw
01-23-2012, 15:26
[QUOTE=SolidBrass;18471477]On that note, I've heard don't use high power ammo during break in (if Glocks need such a thing). I'm still breaking in one of my clocks and wonder what others

Shot the g29 today with factory ammo. Over 200 rounds with no issues.Had Hornady 155, Winchester silver tips, Remington UMC and range reloads. Also shot my g30 and recoil seemed more with the g30 and winchester 235grain jhp

kjunderwood
01-24-2012, 22:11
Wanted to let you all know the Gold Dots are back in stock.

Also wanted to say a big THANK YOU to those who have purchased and left feedback on the website. After switching hosts we lost some of what customers had written. Any help replenishing that would be greatly appreciated.

And to those who had asked about the quantity discounts - the volume discount feature is now built into the new website. Baby steps, slow and steady.

DeLo
01-25-2012, 13:01
Wanted to let you all know the Gold Dots are back in stock.

Also wanted to say a big THANK YOU to those who have purchased and left feedback on the website. After switching hosts we lost some of what customers had written. Any help replenishing that would be greatly appreciated.

And to those who had asked about the quantity discounts - the volume discount feature is now built into the new website. Baby steps, slow and steady.

Awesome thanks Kevin!

ratchetjaw
01-26-2012, 06:00
Wanted to let you all know the Gold Dots are back in stock.

Also wanted to say a big THANK YOU to those who have purchased and left feedback on the website. After switching hosts we lost some of what customers had written. Any help replenishing that would be greatly appreciated.

And to those who had asked about the quantity discounts - the volume discount feature is now built into the new website. Baby steps, slow and steady.

Saw that yesterday and picked up 5 boxes :-) got your golden saber 165 and 180 fmj and both are very noticeable difference in these and other factory loads I was shooting. My accuracy seems off with the fmj but was right on with the golden sabers. Thinking the Gold dots will be my main carry :-)

ratchetjaw
01-26-2012, 18:21
11 more boxes coming my way :-) 6-165 GD, 5-180 GD

10-acious
01-26-2012, 18:27
11 more boxes coming my way :-) 6-165 GD, 5-180 GD

Redirect that UPS truck this way. :supergrin:

ratchetjaw
01-26-2012, 18:59
Redirect that UPS truck this way. :supergrin:

:-) lol I need all the ammo I can get for practice. Trying to tame this beast with the real deal ammo. So far I am losing lol

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

SolidBrass
02-15-2012, 21:42
Pretty cool to see Hickok45 shoot some Underwood.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEijY1jYbs8

4949shooter
02-16-2012, 17:40
Even the Underwood .45 has some serious report to it.

Looking forward to seeing Hickok shoot some 10MM.