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Tarant
11-16-2011, 20:37
Hi, I am an experienced shooter looking at getting into reloading for the first time and after hours of reading I would like to know what you guys think of my setup.

I have not purchased anything yet and I plan on getting a Lyman manual tomorrow and going from there, I plan to reload .223 Rem for precision target practice(Remington 700 mostly 55grain) and .40 S&W for general plinking(Glock 22)
Looking at getting the following,

RCBS Rock Chucker Supreme Kit
Redding Rifle Die set in .223 rem
RCBS Carbide Pistol Die set in .40 S&W
RCBS Shell Holder in .223 rem and 40 S&W
Redding 1400 Case Trimmer
RCBS Powder Trickler
Lyman VLD Chamfer Reamer
RCBS Primer Pocket Brush

I already have a pair of calipers, and plan to wash the cases by hand for now, will be getting a tumbler soon.
The cases I want to reload are going to be NEW and UNFIRED at first but i have a large amount of .223 brass (Federal FC, PMC and Winchester-once fired by me, and Lake City brass-from Ultramax Remanufactured) and .40 S&W Federal American Eagle- once fired by me (headstamps are all FEDERAL no F.C.)

So is there anything iam missing or overlooked, I just would like someone to look over my setup. I want to get a single stage press for cost reasons and I dont want to make any mistakes, i want to do things slow and deliberately. I dont shoot a lot nor do I want to sell anything just making ammo for me.

Thanks,

PS I plan on getting this localy (Sportsmans warehouse, and a few other local gun shops)

Beanie-Bean
11-16-2011, 22:19
Since you look to be an RCBS guy, I'll have to mention a scale. 505, perhaps?

Edit--after reading the first item on the list, I realized that you mentioned the kit, and not just the press.

Have fun!

TN.Frank
11-16-2011, 22:40
You really don't need a RockChucker to load .223 and 40S&W, that's a really heavy duty press. I've loaded everything from 9x19mm up to 30-06 and 45/70 on my Partner Press and it's still going strong after over 20 years of use. Save yourself some money and downgrade your press to a Partner if you can.
A powder measure(Lee Perfect Powder Measure) is nice and a scale is a must. I've used my RCBS 505 for as long as I've reloaded and like anything if you take care of it and are careful with it it'll last a lifetime.
You can also save a few bucks by going with Lee dies. I've used em' a lot over the years and they seem to work as well as any AND they come with a shell holder and powder dipper with loading data. Something else that's handy is the RCBS Handi-Primer. That way you can prime sitting at your dining room table(or where ever) instead of using your press to push the primers in.

Main things you need are:
Press
Dies w/shell holder
Powder scale
Powder measure
Handi-Primer(or at least I do)
Case care stuff like a trimmer and the chamfer tool(Lee makes some good, inexpensive case care stuff)
bullets, primers, powder
and a good book and you'll be pretty much set.

Zombie Steve
11-16-2011, 22:52
Does the Rockchucker Supreme kit still come with a Speer manual? I'd recommend having a couple sources of data to reference. Lyman and Speer are two great sources.

You'll be after a vibratory tumbler eventually, and likely a digital powder dispenser, but it sounds like you have a heck of a good start.

Get a 3 ring binder and make up a excel spreadsheet form for your loads... something to keep track of your data (and it's nice to look back at your old targets if you can stuff them in there).

ETA: You won't regret getting a Rockchucker. :thumbsup:

Tarant
11-17-2011, 00:07
Thanks for the replies guys.

Beanie-Bean,
Yes the RCBS kit dose come with a scale, and the only reason iam going RCBS is because every shop and store localy carries RCBS products. iam not biased anyway,

Frank,
I apologize I forgot to add that I will be starting with .223 and .40s&w, I will/may be reloading 9mm, 10mm, .243, .308, and maybe somthing in the 6.5mm or .260 remington range.

Also the kit comes with the RCBS Hand-Primer, the 505 scale and the Uniflow Powder Measure those items purchased along with the Partner press are not that far off from the Rock chucker kit money wise, and i get some other little goodies. That is the only reason i would get the kit, but I will look at the Partner press, and lee dies, Thanks.

Zombie Steve,
Yes the kit does come with the Speer manual and I plan on getting the Lyman manual tomorrow.
Great idea, I will also be getting a binder and getting an excel sheet together.

This is the kit looking at.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/646599/rcbs-rock-chucker-supreme-single-stage-press-master-kit

CanyonMan
11-17-2011, 00:20
Does the Rockchucker Supreme kit still come with a Speer manual? I'd recommend having a couple sources of data to reference. Lyman and Speer are two great sources.

You'll be after a vibratory tumbler eventually, and likely a digital powder dispenser, but it sounds like you have a heck of a good start.

Get a 3 ring binder and make up a excel spreadsheet form for your loads... something to keep track of your data (and it's nice to look back at your old targets if you can stuff them in there).

ETA: You won't regret getting a Rockchucker. :thumbsup:


Steve, hey my friend... Right on !

Man I have been using the RCBS RC for ever.. Finally got a new one a few years back after 40 + years of reloading. I use a single stage and turn out about 100 rounds of anything, in about an hour.. But they are "quality man quality.." ;)

The manual should still come with the "package deal." They are up to # 14 now. Not much diff at all from the #13.

A guy cannot have to many references...

Suggestions from "part" of my library are:


Speer manul #13
Hornady 6th/7th edition two vol hard backs.
Lyman 47, 48, and 49.
Lee Latest volume.
Metalic Cartridge reloading, by McPherson.. He is a friend of mine and a scientist and ballistician, and lectures and hunts all over the world, and based in Colo.. Must have manual. Excellent !!!
Assorted older Speer manuals.
On and on...

Be very careful of the internet loading sights to those of you who are newbies.


Say safe Steve !








CM

F106 Fan
11-17-2011, 01:21
I use this pad to log reload data:
http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/publications/reloading-data-log.php

The sheets tear out and can eventually be put together with targets in a 3 ring binder.

OPINION:
Before I spent all that money on a Rock Chucker Supreme Kit, I would at least consider the Dillon 550B. Make a spreadsheet of total costs. Yes, the 550B will be more money but it will make ammo a LOT faster.

Loading rifle on a single stage press is probably just fine. I don't tend to shoot more than a few hundred rounds per year. But loading for pistol is a different situation. There I am shooting a few hundred rounds per week and getting a little speed out of the operation is desireable.

There is nothing wrong with RCBS single stage presses. I have two of them and I still use one for rifle reloading. But 100 rounds is a big deal on a single stage press. On a 550B it takes less than 1/2 hour.

It's ok to just look at the comparison and still buy the RCBS press. At least the alternatives were reviewed.

Richard

CanyonMan
11-17-2011, 02:46
OOPS !

Sound like Rick Perry... haha

wrong place guys. ;)



CM

TN.Frank
11-17-2011, 07:49
Also the kit comes with the RCBS Hand-Primer, the 505 scale and the Uniflow Powder Measure those items purchased along with the Partner press are not that far off from the Rock chucker kit money wise, and i get some other little goodies.

Well, if that's the case then I'd say go with the RockChucker. Back in the day when I got my Partner press I picked it up for $25 bucks, a RockChucker was $89 bucks so there was a big difference in price but if the price is close then get the better press.
Plus it looks like you'll be getting some of the nice things to have like the Handi-Promer, 505 scale and a powder measure.

Dillion 550 or 650 might also be good to look into but as a novice reloader I'd personally say start with a good single stage until you get the feel for reloading. That way you'll only mess up a few ctgs. if something goes wrong instead of an entire box.LOL.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Beanie-Bean
11-17-2011, 08:11
Thanks for the replies guys.

Beanie-Bean,
Yes the RCBS kit dose come with a scale, and the only reason iam going RCBS is because every shop and store localy carries RCBS products. iam not biased anyway,


I am not biased for any one brand, either...well, except for Glock :)

I have an RCBS ChargeMaster combo on the bench now, and it's been great for developing and working up loads.

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/Beanie-Bean/Reloading/IMG_8312.jpg

The guys on this forum have been very helpful, and I'm sure that you'll find answers and direction on whatever questions you may have about reloading. Lots of experience on this forum, for sure.

rpgman
11-17-2011, 08:26
I am not biased for any one brand, either...well, except for Glock :)

I have an RCBS ChargeMaster combo on the bench now, and it's been great for developing and working up loads.

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/Beanie-Bean/Reloading/IMG_8312.jpg

The guys on this forum have been very helpful, and I'm sure that you'll find answers and direction on whatever questions you may have about reloading. Lots of experience on this forum, for sure.

I use the RCBS 1500 ChargeMaster for loading 9mm and .40.
Love it.
I use it with a Lee pass through die, just dumping the powder through.
Greg

unclebob
11-17-2011, 09:07
Personally I would not get the RCBS dies. I would get Redding for rifle and Lee for the handguns.

MR. TWISTER
11-17-2011, 09:30
I would purchase a case tumbler first and get the case trimmed later when possible, I just hate dirty brass. Plus the .223 is the only cartridge you will need to trim and you can load it for plinking a couple times without trimming.
Brandon

unclebob
11-17-2011, 10:07
I would purchase a case tumbler first and get the case trimmed later when possible, I just hate dirty brass. Plus the .223 is the only cartridge you will need to trim and you can load it for plinking a couple times without trimming.
Brandon

All of his rifle rounds at one time or another will need to be trimmed. Just not the .233.

rhino673
11-17-2011, 12:23
IMO, a trimmer is way more important then a tumbler. I reloaded for years without one but the bottlenecked rifle rounds WILL need to be trimmed.

Having said that , I love my tumbler and the shiny brass that it produces.( it becomes a obsession . lol) I would hate to not have one. I'm actually considering getting a sonic cleaner now so the insides of the brass are just as clean as the outside.

halfmoonclip
11-17-2011, 13:20
OPINION:
Before I spent all that money on a Rock Chucker Supreme Kit, I would at least consider the Dillon 550B. Make a spreadsheet of total costs. Yes, the 550B will be more money but it will make ammo a LOT faster.

Loading rifle on a single stage press is probably just fine. I don't tend to shoot more than a few hundred rounds per year. But loading for pistol is a different situation. There I am shooting a few hundred rounds per week and getting a little speed out of the operation is desireable.

There is nothing wrong with RCBS single stage presses. I have two of them and I still use one for rifle reloading. But 100 rounds is a big deal on a single stage press. On a 550B it takes less than 1/2 hour.

It's ok to just look at the comparison and still buy the RCBS press. At least the alternatives were reviewed.

Richard

A well-reasoned response. Another poster mentioned the difficulty of learning to reload on a progressive press, but it can be done, and it saves the cost of buying two systems. There's no percentage in selling or trading loading presses; that's why my RCBS single stage is still bolted to my bench.

Consider the fact that you want to reload handgun ammo. One at a time is fine for bolt guns, but if you are going to shoot a bunch of rounds, progressives are the way to go. My 550 is nearly thirty years old, and has been overhauled three times with free, fresh parts from Dillon. It is as good as new, and if I had a nickel for every round that's come out of it, I could go buy a car.

Alternately, start with an inexpensive single stage with the notion that you'll go progressive eventually, or just save the single stage for rifle reloads.
Moon

F106 Fan
11-17-2011, 13:41
A well-reasoned response. Another poster mentioned the difficulty of learning to reload on a progressive press, but it can be done, and it saves the cost of buying two systems.

I have never operated my 550Bs as single stage presses but there is no reason it can't be done.

In fact, I just bought a die head with the intent of migrating my rifle reloading to the 550B. It will be a strange process: The first toolhead will have only the sizing/decapping die. I will run all the cases through and then trim to length and clean the primer pockets. I have the Dillon electric case trimmer, perhaps it would be used on this toolhead.

The second toolhead will have the powder die and bullet seating die. Here I will set the primer, charge the case and seat the bullet.

It may be that I still do the steps in batches: perhaps I will set the primer, charge the case and then set the case in a loading block until I make another pass to seat the bullet. Perhaps the process won't be significantly different than using a single stage press. But it gets me a little space on my bench if I can remove the RCBS press.

This is a work in progress. I don't know how it will work out. I don't much care because I am quite satisfied with the rifle ammo produced on the RCBS.

.223 for my AR-15 is a different story. I run that through the 550B without even considering things like primer pocket cleaning or case length trimming. I'll gauge a few rounds just to be sure but AR-15 'puppy chow' is just bulk loaded.

Richard

fredj338
11-17-2011, 14:26
I have never operated my 550Bs as single stage presses but there is no reason it can't be done.

In fact, I just bought a die head with the intent of migrating my rifle reloading to the 550B. It will be a strange process: The first toolhead will have only the sizing/decapping die. I will run all the cases through and then trim to length and clean the primer pockets. I have the Dillon electric case trimmer, perhaps it would be used on this toolhead.

The second toolhead will have the powder die and bullet seating die. Here I will set the primer, charge the case and seat the bullet.

It may be that I still do the steps in batches: perhaps I will set the primer, charge the case and then set the case in a loading block until I make another pass to seat the bullet. Perhaps the process won't be significantly different than using a single stage press. But it gets me a little space on my bench if I can remove the RCBS press.

This is a work in progress. I don't know how it will work out. I don't much care because I am quite satisfied with the rifle ammo produced on the RCBS.

.223 for my AR-15 is a different story. I run that through the 550B without even considering things like primer pocket cleaning or case length trimming. I'll gauge a few rounds just to be sure but AR-15 'puppy chow' is just bulk loaded.

Richard


I reload some rifle on my 550B, there is really no reason to use more than one tool head. You can size & decap in stn #1 & just remove the case for trimming/primer pocket cleaning (although not really needed until 3-4 firings). Then run them back thru the entire reloading process on one tool head. Using the RCBS 'X; die mitigates a lot of the trimming issues. I only load 223 & 308 for my semiautos ont the 550B. My other rifle rounds are done on the old ss press. I rarely shoot more than 100rds of any of my hunting rifles in a year.

F106 Fan
11-17-2011, 15:23
I reload some rifle on my 550B, there is really no reason to use more than one tool head. You can size & decap in stn #1 & just remove the case for trimming/primer pocket cleaning (although not really needed until 3-4 firings). Then run them back thru the entire reloading process on one tool head. Using the RCBS 'X; die mitigates a lot of the trimming issues. I only load 223 & 308 for my semiautos ont the 550B. My other rifle rounds are done on the old ss press. I rarely shoot more than 100rds of any of my hunting rifles in a year.

I had thought about doing it just that way and, in fact, I only bought one new toolhead. It would be no problem to let the case index over to station #2 and remove it there. That way I wouldn't have to mess about trying to get the case back out of station #1. Or I could take it out of station #1 and put it in the output bin.

Then I thought about that neat Dillon electric case trimmer and I figured I could size/decap and trim all with one toolhead. Mind you, that case trimmer is still in the box. I went with the Hornady Case Prep machine instead.

That's the big advantage of the 550B over, say, the 650 or 1050. There's a lot of flexibility in a manually indexed machine. Not that I don't enjoy my 1050 when it comes to .45 ACP.

Richard

unclebob
11-17-2011, 16:21
I had thought about doing it just that way and, in fact, I only bought one new toolhead. It would be no problem to let the case index over to station #2 and remove it there. That way I wouldn't have to mess about trying to get the case back out of station #1. Or I could take it out of station #1 and put it in the output bin.Why take the case out just let it eject after station 4. put the case in station 1 size and deprime, rotate the shell plate, put a case in station 1. Repeat.

Then I thought about that neat Dillon electric case trimmer and I figured I could size/decap and trim all with one toolhead. Mind you, that case trimmer is still in the box. I went with the Hornady Case Prep machine instead.

That's the big advantage of the 550B over, say, the 650 or 1050. There's a lot of flexibility in a manually indexed machine. Not that I don't enjoy my 1050 when it comes to .45 ACP.

Richard

Case feeder, better priming. Can manual index or auto index very easily, faster, cannot back up the shell plate. 5 stations easier to use a powder check. In my option safer and more versatile. Just all around better press. I would never go back to loading on a 550.

Colorado4Wheel
11-17-2011, 16:27
Wimp...









;)

F106 Fan
11-17-2011, 16:43
Case feeder, better priming. Can manual index or auto index very easily, faster, cannot back up the shell plate. 5 stations easier to use a powder check. In my option safer and more versatile. Just all around better press. I would never go back to loading on a 550.

Absolutely! If I didn't already have the lower cost 550Bs, I would be looking at 650s.

I still haven't made the choice for 9mm. I know I'm not going to be loading very many more rounds on the 550B - it's just too slow to keep up with my grandson's shooting.

My first choice would be the 1050 because it will swage the primer pockets and a lot of 9mm range brass seems to be crimped. But the lower cost of the 650 seems pretty compelling.

The thing is, I really don't like reloading all that much. I just want to get it over with as soon as possible.

Richard

unclebob
11-17-2011, 17:01
Absolutely! If I didn't already have the lower cost 550Bs, I would be looking at 650s.

I still haven't made the choice for 9mm. I know I'm not going to be loading very many more rounds on the 550B - it's just too slow to keep up with my grandson's shooting.

My first choice would be the 1050 because it will swage the primer pockets and a lot of 9mm range brass seems to be crimped. But the lower cost of the 650 seems pretty compelling.

The thing is, I really don't like reloading all that much. I just want to get it over with as soon as possible.

Richard

About the only advantage of the 1050 over the 650 is the pocket swaging and you donít have to push forward on the handle to seat primers. The conversions on the 650 would be less and easier. Get a bullet feeder and the 650 would be about as fast as the 1050. And still paid less than what a 1050 would cost.

Colorado4Wheel
11-17-2011, 19:22
650 with a bullet feeder would be faster then a 1050 without one. Pushig to prime is not that big a deal.

halfmoonclip
11-17-2011, 19:56
I like the notion of a powder check, but a buddy with a 650 complains that it is harder to change calibers and primer size than the 550; in fact, he's looking for a 550 to leave set up for a particular caliber, .45s maybe.

Seriously hope the OP does consider a progressive, as there are ways to have his cake and eat it too. I was intrigued by the mention of a 'no muss no fuss' attitude toward 5.56; used to one-at-a-time those, too, but now I just shop for good prices on loaded ammo.
Moon

F106 Fan
11-17-2011, 20:04
650 with a bullet feeder would be faster then a 1050 without one. Pushig to prime is not that big a deal.

Interesting comment! Seriously...

On another thread (re: free shipping) I suggested that I might just change to all FMJ (9mm and .45 ACP), buy them from Precision Delta and let the costs fall where they do.

Here's where it gets interesting: the bullet feeder that I have seen works only for jacketed (and plated?) bullets. If I do decide to use just FMJ, I can add the bullet feeder to my 1050. Then I can consider the Ponsness-Warren motor drive. Reloading could be simply a matter of keeping the hoppers and the primer tube full. I would like that!

So what if the bullets cost $0.03 more? I could get some serious speed out of that 1050.

For the future 9mm press, I think I'll go for the 1050. I really don't want to deal with crimped brass gumming up the works. Particularly if I add a motor drive.

Next year projects...

Richard

unclebob
11-17-2011, 20:22
I like the notion of a powder check, but a buddy with a 650 complains that it is harder to change calibers and primer size than the 550; in fact, he's looking for a 550 to leave set up for a particular caliber, .45s maybe.
I just use the small primer punch for both small and large primers. For large primers you just have to change out the primer disk and primer magazine tube.
Matter of fact I have two primer magazines. One for small primers and one for large. Pull the two screws and put the other one on. Have been doing this for about 3 years. Have not set off any primers or have had any high primers. Or can see any difference. Other than making things a lot easier and simpler.

TN.Frank
11-17-2011, 21:02
We used two 1050's at Caswell's in Mesa, AZ to load on. One set up for large primers and one set up for small. That way we only needed to change out shell plates and dies. I'd normally do like calibers(38spl, 357mag for instance) when I was loading so we'd not be changing shell plates so often.

halfmoonclip
11-17-2011, 21:09
Hate to admit it, but Wallyworld has 100 Winchester 9mm FMJs for $23odd dollars; I can't reload FMJ for that money. I'll drift back to reloading the FMJs when this good deal passes.
Now RNL is another matter...
Moon

FM12
11-17-2011, 21:25
I'D GET THE LEE 3 DIES SET WHICH INCLUDES A FL SIZER AND THE COLLET SIZER. fOR USE IN oNE RIFLE AND A BOLT GUN aT THAT, THE COLLET DIE is way esier to use, NO LUBING/Cleaning!! The brass is pretty much fire formed to the chamber.

RCBS is hard to beat though.

XDRoX
11-17-2011, 21:35
Hate to admit it, but Wallyworld has 100 Winchester 9mm FMJs for $23odd dollars; I can't reload FMJ for that money. I'll drift back to reloading the FMJs when this good deal passes.
Now RNL is another matter...
Moon

You should become a better shopper for components. I reload FMJ for just over $5 per 50 rounds or just over $10 for 100 rounds. You're paying over double at walmart. Not to mention way more accurate and cleaner than the walmart garbage. Plus I can walk into my garage and load 500 rounds in the same time it would take me to drive to walmart, buy the ammo, and drive home. Never understood the "won't load 9mm argument" :dunno:

http://precisiondelta.com/product.php?indx=5

F106 Fan
11-17-2011, 21:42
Hate to admit it, but Wallyworld has 100 Winchester 9mm FMJs for $23odd dollars; I can't reload FMJ for that money. I'll drift back to reloading the FMJs when this good deal passes.
Now RNL is another matter...
Moon

You should still be able to make a little $

Precision Delta 115 gr FMJ is $76/1000
http://www.precisiondelta.com/detail.php?sku=B-9-115-FMJ

Bullet $0.076
Primer $0.03
Powder $0.014 (just to round off)
TOTAL $0.12 or $12.00 per 100

You should save about $11/100 or $110/1000 by reloading.

Richard

halfmoonclip
11-17-2011, 22:01
Bird dog me to a good deal on 115 FMJs then...saw some at the gunshow Sunday for 500 @ $79; till you factor in powder, primers and time, not worth it to me. Actually think WWB isn't bad stuff, tho' WalMart now has Winchester.

Like I said, I'll load lead rounds (500 @ $30 from our favorite local rangemaster), but the FMJs are just too pricey.
Moon

XDRoX
11-17-2011, 22:07
Bird dog me to a good deal on 115 FMJs then...saw some at the gunshow Sunday for 500 @ $79; till you factor in powder, primers and time, not worth it to me. Actually think WWB isn't bad stuff, tho' WalMart now has Winchester.

Like I said, I'll load lead rounds (500 @ $30 from our favorite local rangemaster), but the FMJs are just too pricey.
Moon

Did you click on our links? 1k bullets shipped for $76. FMJ. And what's the difference between Winchester and WWB? :dunno:

You're a hard guy to follow. Maybe I'm just drunk.

halfmoonclip
11-17-2011, 22:24
F106, we crossed posts, and your logic is better now that WallyWorld is selling for $23. When they were down in the 'teens, it was a no-brainer.

I'll have to do some more gunshop and gunshow haunting for FMJ under 500 @ $80.

Moon

halfmoonclip
11-17-2011, 22:31
Did you click on our links? 1k bullets shipped for $76. FMJ. And what's the difference between Winchester and WWB? :dunno:

You're a hard guy to follow. Maybe I'm just drunk.

Okay, full disclosure, I hadn't done the math. Also, I shoot mostly lead, tho' not in the Glock. Also full disclosure, some of my old crocks won't run on my reloads (and I pride myself on good reloads), so some factory is nice to have.
I have a shooter Luger that I went up and down on powder and OAL, looking for the magic formula. Conventional wisdom was that Lugers like hot ammo. Turns out, the magic was in WWB.

The only change in WWB vs Winchester may well be the packaging.
Moon

XDRoX
11-17-2011, 22:32
F106, we crossed posts, and your logic is better now that WallyWorld is selling for $23. When they were down in the 'teens, it was a no-brainer.

I'll have to do some more gunshop and gunshow haunting for FMJ under 500 @ $80.

Moon

I feel like I'm in the twilight zone. Do you have me on ignore or something?

Are you against ordering components online :dunno:

PCJim
11-17-2011, 22:34
@F106-I reload 223 on the 550 but currently perform the resizing/depriming on a SS. No real reason, just didn't want to commit a toolhead to a single die. I've several toolheads not being used so I will start performing this step also on the 550.

My steps are: tumble, lube, resize/deprime, quick tumble to remove lube, when necessary trim / chamfer / deburr / swage, then on to the final prime, powder and seat.

I strongly recommend you consider a universal depriming die in station one on your final toolhead to insure there is no media in the flash holes if you use the second tumbling as I do.

halfmoonclip
11-17-2011, 22:35
I feel like I'm in the twilight zone. Do you have me on ignore or something?

Are you against ordering components online :dunno:

Relax, Rox, I'll try your links. No objection to online components; last batch of FMJ I loaded, a buddy and I split 1K rounds and the shipping as well.
Moon

XDRoX
11-17-2011, 22:37
Okay, full disclosure, I hadn't done the math. Also, I shoot mostly lead, tho' not in the Glock. Also full disclosure, some of my old crocks won't run on my reloads (and I pride myself on good reloads), so some factory is nice to have.
I have a shooter Luger that I went up and down on powder and OAL, looking for the magic formula. Conventional wisdom was that Lugers like hot ammo. Turns out, the magic was in WWB.

The only change in WWB vs Winchester may well be the packaging.
Moon

Ignore my last post. You do obviously see me :supergrin:

On the Luger, may help a little. I'm a bit of a Luger nut myself. The easiest way to get Luger to function is to use 124gr bullets or heavier. It's actually amazing how much they like them. It was after all designed around the original 9mm which was 124gr.

I had amazing results when I switched to 124gr.

XDRoX
11-17-2011, 22:39
Relax, Rox, I'll try your links.


I'm fine now :supergrin:

halfmoonclip
11-17-2011, 22:45
Hey, Rox, have a beer on me! I'm having one on you. :supergrin: We were cross posting.

Good tip on the Luger ammo; I'll file that for future reference. Mine is a shooter only, tho' it shoots straighter than the road to hell when I grit my teeth and squeeeeeeeeeeeze.

When you factor in the tiny sights, weird trigger linkage, and J Lo balance it has to be the great ergonomics.

After a busy summer, I have to catch up on my loading. For the OP, reloading sometimes takes on a life of it's own (see above), but if you don't want it to take up too much of your life, get a progressive.
Moon

XDRoX
11-17-2011, 22:55
Hey, Rox, have a beer on me! I'm having one on you. :supergrin: We were cross posting.

Good tip on the Luger ammo; I'll file that for future reference. Mine is a shooter only, tho' it shoots straighter than the road to hell when I grit my teeth and squeeeeeeeeeeeze.

When you factor in the tiny sights, weird trigger linkage, and J Lo balance it has to be the great ergonomics.

After a busy summer, I have to catch up on my loading. For the OP, reloading sometimes takes on a life of it's own (see above), but if you don't want it to take up too much of your life, get a progressive.
Moon

Cheers :cheers:

Tarant
11-18-2011, 01:04
:wow:, Thank you guys so much! Truly I am simply amazed at the amount of responses, This is why i like this place.

Okay, i will look into a Dillon(No promises though)

The reason I didn't want to get on isn't so much the money but the fear of screwing something up, especially when reloading 40s&w and 10mm. I figured with a single stage I would be less likely to mess something up and get a kaboom. Also during the winter iam at work or home. I don't do much this time of year, so taking it slow isn't an issue for me. Also I will be doing this solo, I don't know anyone that reloads, so nobody to check my gear and make sure its within spec.

BUT, Let me ask you Dillon folk this. How much bigger is a 550 compared to a single stage? I have seen and played with the Chucker, but haven't seen a Dillon with my own eyes. I forgot to mention space is a little tight, I have room for a Chucker but am not sure about the Dillon 550.

And when it come to tumblers, Will a rotating tumble work?(like a thumlers tumbler) I have one of those, its 2 quart capacity.

Colorado4Wheel
11-18-2011, 08:29
Size seems like a big deal but it's just not. The press might be 5 inch's wider and a lot taller. But height is not a issue. For storage you take the toolhead off and it's about the same as a RC.

Your more likely to make a mistake with a RC then a 550. It's just not a big deal for a guy like yourself who is careful and not in a rush. Biggest thing to do with a 550 is to load in this order

Pull the handle (charges the case)
As you pull the handle with your right hand grab a bullet with your left
As the handle is going back up look in the case and right after you push to prime put a bullet on top of the charged case.

This process becomes second nature after a while. Your mind is trained to look in every case and immediately set a bullet on the charged case. If you try and pull the handle again the bullet is in the way.

Simple.

halfmoonclip
11-18-2011, 10:42
Tarant, the challenge with a progressive press is a lot of things happening at the same time. Especially at first, you'll have to discipline yourself to check things and stay very focused. But if you are reasonably mechanical and understand the reloading process, you'll catch on pretty quickly. A couple buddies went the straight-to-the-progressive route, and they have done just fine.

Don't hesitate to ask here; not the same as somebody in the same room with you, but there will be plenty of expertise to help you out. The guys at Dillon are patient with noobs too. Do you belong to a local gun club that might have some Dillon guys? Listen to the voices of experience, but don't be afraid to disagree.

It's hard to justify learning to reload on a single stage and then take a financial bath selling/trading it for a progressive, so you are better buying what you want to begin with; if you are a handgunner, that means a progressive.

Actual footprint on the bench of the 550 is only an inch or so bigger than my ancient RCBS O-press (which I haven't used in years, and I need to tear out someday soon). The Dillon is about 21" tall.

I'd recommend a vibratory tumbler eventually, but your tumbling tumbler thing should do for now. It's mostly an esthetics thing; I never experienced any undue die wear when I didn't clean brass at all. It made for some ugly ammo, tho'.
Good luck and good shopping.
Moon

F106 Fan
11-18-2011, 11:05
And there is no reason you can't run one cartridge at a time through a progressive press. You don't have to have 4 things going on at one time.

Put a case in station one, pull the handle down to resize and decap. Raise the handle and then push it forward to insert the primer. You'll feel it seat. Remove the case and look at the primer. It should be slightly below flush and, if the primer punch is clean, it won't be all crumpled. Reinsert the case at station one.

Rotate the base plate and DON'T insert another empty case. Pull the handle to expand the case mouth and drop the powder. If you wish, you can pull the case and weigh the powder charge. Then toss the powder back into the powder measure and drop another charge into the case. Don't try to put the powder back into the case. It isn't worth the effort.

Rotate the base plate and DON'T insert another empty case. Place a bullet on top of the case and pull the handle to seat it. If you wish, you can pull the assembled cartridge and check the OAL. If it is perfect, it won't be when you have cases at all 4 stations. You will need to lower the die slightly when running progressive.

Rotate the base plate and DON'T insert another empty case. Pull the handle to taper crimp the case.

Rotate the base plate and DON'T insert another empty case. The loaded round will fall into the output bin. I take a few of these and put a pair of calipers lengthwise down the case. I want to see that the case mouth is fully close up and, perhaps, just a little daylight at the very front of the case.

The base plate is empty and you have loaded a single round.

Repeat...

It might not be a bad idea to run a few cartridges this way just to get the process settled in your mind.

In the case of a single stage press, you would reload in batches. You might deprime, resize and prime 50 cases placing them in a loading block. Then you would charge all the cases, returning them to the block. Next you would seat bullets in all the cases and finally you would taper crimp all the cases.

Richard

halfmoonclip
11-18-2011, 14:01
What F106 described above not only will let you use it as a single stage; it is also how you set up the press for progressive operation. Good suggestion either way.

For handgunners, the progressive press is one of the liberating inventions of all time. A dedicated rifleman buddy, late in his life, was no longer able to fire a rifle. I made a pistolero of him, and he had a grand time blazing away, rather than going to the range and firing 15 rounds in 3 shot groups.
Moon

Tarant
11-19-2011, 22:04
Thank you everybody,
After looking over everything I have decided to get the RCBS kit now and get a Dillon later on down the line, maybe around summer time.

BEFORE you beat me up here is my reasoning.

I can get the RCBS kit localy for $300, and RCBS is running a $50 mail in rebate if I get it before the end of the year.
So that means i will be able to get the whole thing for $250,

My thought!
Model 505 Scale for $80
Uniflow Powder Measure for $75
Hand Priming tool for $35
Speer manual $28
Case lube kit $15

These five items come in the RCBS kit for a total of $233 and that doesnt even factor in the press.Iam getting the press for $17. So iam going that route for now and will be getting the dillon late and for that price I can justify it.

What do you guys thing of the Redding Competition Dies for .223?

F106 Fan
11-19-2011, 22:33
What do you guys thing of the Redding Competition Dies for .223?

I use those dies on an RCBS press for 6.5x284 NORMA and I like them a lot. They are certainly the high price spread. Sinclair has pretty good prices on them.

http://www.sinclairintl.com/

I load .223 on my 550B with Dillon dies. Even with bulk loading (versus precision loading), they will group to about 1.5" at 300 yards from a Savage Long Range Precision Varmint rifle.

Richard

fredj338
11-20-2011, 12:00
Hate to admit it, but Wallyworld has 100 Winchester 9mm FMJs for $23odd dollars; I can't reload FMJ for that money. I'll drift back to reloading the FMJs when this good deal passes.
Now RNL is another matter...
Moon

If you can't reload 9mm FMJ for half that, then you are doing something wrong. PrecDelta 115gr FMJ, any medium burner & any SPP gets you just at $10/100.:dunno:
Okay, full disclosure, I hadn't done the math. Also, I shoot mostly lead, tho' not in the Glock. Also full disclosure, some of my old crocks won't run on my reloads (and I pride myself on good reloads), so some factory is nice to have.
I have a shooter Luger that I went up and down on powder and OAL, looking for the magic formula. Conventional wisdom was that Lugers like hot ammo. Turns out, the magic was in WWB.
I love this, you come on & make a defininetive statement then tell us you really haven't done the math!! As stated, it's pretty easy to make better ammo for 1/2 the price of cheap WWB/Tula/whatever. You do have to broaden your component search though. $80/500 9mm FMJ is robbery.
BTW, making reliable Luger ammo is a good reasson to be reloading. The like heavier bullets & higher operating pressures than much of the ammo hitting the US market today.

halfmoonclip
11-20-2011, 14:41
Tarant, I see your logic, but the same $3Cs would put a serious dent in the price of a of a Dillon. OTOH, a single stage around the shop isn't such a bad thing.
Let me pass along a tip for your powder scale; don't put it on the bench, subject to press vibrations. Instead, mount it conveniently at eye level on some kind of solid shelf. It's much easier to read the poise accurately if it is at eye level.
Moon