What noob mistakes did you make with your AR15? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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ghostman1960
11-18-2011, 13:18
Me? I tried to go cheap and bought a DSA mid length upper and put UTG rails on it. Yeah, I learned.

http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt45/ghostman1960/020.jpg

WoodenPlank
11-18-2011, 13:21
Me? I tried to go cheap and bought a DSA mid length upper and put UTG rails on it. Yeah, I learned.

Oof. That's a rough one.

bmoore
11-18-2011, 13:37
When I got my Smith M&P15 a few years ago, I was doing my research before shooting and heard you had to oil the bolt. So for the first couple of range trips I just gave the bolt a light spray of Remoil. Didnt have a malfunction but I have since learned about what running it wet means.

Matthew Courtney
11-18-2011, 13:41
I mounted a scope to the carry handle.

M&P15T
11-18-2011, 13:45
I painted mine....poorly.

While I like the FDE look, unless I sent my rifle away and had it professionally painted (cerakote or something like that), painting it with Krylon's gun paints didn't last very long. The final finish is just too soft.

Then I had to strip it back to black.

Clint-M
11-18-2011, 13:51
I painted mine....poorly.

While I like the FDE look, unless I sent my rifle away and had it professionally painted (cerakote or something like that), painting it with Krylon's gun paints didn't last very long. The final finish is just too soft.

Then I had to strip it back to black.

Joint Force Enterprises is receiving my Stealth after I finish swapping out a few pieces to have it done in FDE. :cool: They do awesome work at a great price if anyone else is looking.

My first rifle was my first complete build and I was way under equipped in the tool department to do it. :faint: Took a lot longer and I scuffed the entire rifle pretty well but now I can do pretty much anything to a rifle outside of machining.

CM

nastytrigger
11-18-2011, 13:59
I bought a Bushmaster :whistling:

Actually, I'm happy with my purchase. It's been a great rifle.

fnfalman
11-18-2011, 14:04
Bought an Olympic Arms XM-15 because it was cheap.

engineer151515
11-18-2011, 14:05
Bought a cheapie free float handguard with rails.
(Brand to remain anonymous)
Scarred up the handrails on the install
Painted the upper to hide the handrail scars - that looked like crap
Then broke the cheapie free-float handrails while tightening up the assembly.

Jez... Sometimes it is just best to take things away from me.

Well - at least the lower is untouched.
I've had my eye on a Spikes complete upper assembly that will erase the problem . . but not the memory..:)

marvin
11-18-2011, 14:43
made the mistake of thinking that $10 used GI mags were as good as new ones

boomhower
11-18-2011, 14:45
None that I've found so far. Lots of research before buying and when buying, buy quality stuff. Only thing close to a mistake is I bought a Magpul BAD I didn't end up needing.(Thought the mag coupler wouldn't leave enough clearance but it did.) I bought it used and sold it to a coworker for the same I paid for it so it was a wash.

MrMurphy
11-18-2011, 15:09
I didn't.

MadMonkey
11-18-2011, 15:16
Shot a rear takedown pin spring across the room when I was building one :embarassed:

cciman
11-18-2011, 17:07
some:

Pulled too hard on take down pins, past the stop (either/both)

Dis assembling the extractor and spring, before really needing to. PIA to put it back together.

Let a Wolf round sit inside a hot chamber, before firing. (casing polymer cokes and shell is stuck inside the bore - only happens in AR type guns, never happened inside a AK/SKS type weapon).

Using a auto spanner wrench on a castle nut-- poor purchase = bad scratch. That MFB was tight, even the with dedicated AR tool, I had to stand on the receiver to turn it. Use a good quality tool or you will break it.

Other mistakes pending.

cciman
11-18-2011, 17:09
What's wrong with that?

I love my DSA mid with the UTG upper. I did put ladder covers, because the rubbers are too thick.

Me? I tried to go cheap and bought a DSA mid length upper and put UTG rails on it. Yeah, I learned.

http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt45/ghostman1960/020.jpg

ghostman1960
11-18-2011, 17:21
What's wrong with that?

I love my DSA mid with the UTG upper. I did put ladder covers, because the rubbers are too thick.

Nothing that a BCM upper and DD rails didnt fix.

mjkeat
11-18-2011, 17:39
Nothing that a BCM upper and DD rails didnt fix.

LOL, thats awesome.

---

I did a lot of reading before making my first purchase. My mistakes came later when I tried to skimp on the optic for my second AR.

PlayboyPenguin
11-18-2011, 17:41
The only real mistakes I have made with AR's is buying stock. I should have built my own from the beginning. After one complete build and another total overhaul of another one I could have saved money building them myself from the get go.

faawrenchbndr
11-18-2011, 18:35
Cheap optics that did not last long.

Randy from Kansas
11-18-2011, 20:10
I did not purchase enough ammo, in 01 I took my new colt out with only 150rds a friend and my son came along we were out of ammo in just a couple of minutes.

TedG
11-18-2011, 20:16
made the mistake of thinking that $10 used GI mags were as good as new ones

Done that. :upeyes:

sigman69
11-19-2011, 00:22
years ago buying an Olympic AR15 that was junk...just didnt shoot well, and didnt shoot at all even more!!!!

daddysnapmuffins
11-19-2011, 00:26
During the election fiasco when Pmags where impossible to find I bought a Thermold mag which I don't like. Haven't had a misfeed it just doesn't seat as cleanly and takes an extra smack. I also sometimes wish I bought my Grip Pod and rail covers in black. Other times I'm fine with the FDE.

mixflip
11-19-2011, 02:39
Just before Obama won the election I bought a DPMS because it was the only rifle left on the shelf.

Btw...it shot fine and never fell apart or broke even though the internet said it would.

jadams951
11-19-2011, 21:26
Took out buffer and spring and forget to put it back it in then ripped the CH back and got that bolt carrier stuck pretty bad.

Cole125
11-19-2011, 21:48
I bought a Burris AR-332 scope for my newest AR instead of saving for a 3x ACOG.

njl
11-19-2011, 22:56
I bought a few Orlite mags from Midway (I think). Those things are crap. I've barely used them and one has a split nearly the full length of the mag. Bought several holosight type optics (Bushnell and Eotech) before going Aimpoint.

Gunnut 45/454
11-19-2011, 23:53
I bought a DPMS 16" carbine upper -before I read all the good reviews and how unGodly it was to even mention the fact that I own it! Only to find out it shoots just as good/ runs just as good as my Colt!:rofl:

mjkeat
11-20-2011, 10:07
I bought a DPMS 16" carbine upper -before I read all the good reviews and how unGodly it was to even mention the fact that I own it! Only to find out it shoots just as good/ runs just as good as my Colt!:rofl:

Fill us in on a normal range and your training regiment?

bmoore
11-20-2011, 10:31
For about 3 1/2 minutes I actually started believing I needed a 1900 dollar AR and I had to put no less than 1,600 rounds down range per range session and go to every carbine course in order to be a true AR15 owner. Man that was almost a huge mistake.

Gunnut 45/454
11-20-2011, 10:56
mjkeat
Like 95% of AR owners I'm not an Operator- former Military use them for target shooting, hunting. Ranges from zero to 400 yards! Keep them around for SD/HD. I don't need to go to carbine classes and burn through 1000 rounds every other week as like I said I'm not an Operator - don't drop into hostile area's on a weekly basis, not a SWAT member, merc etc!:supergrin:

mjkeat
11-20-2011, 11:26
mjkeat
Like 95% of AR owners I'm not an Operator- former Military use them for target shooting, hunting. Ranges from zero to 400 yards! Keep them around for SD/HD. I don't need to go to carbine classes and burn through 1000 rounds every other week as like I said I'm not an Operator - don't drop into hostile area's on a weekly basis, not a SWAT member, merc etc!:supergrin:

I'm not a high speed operator either and thats my point. How can guys like us make the judgment that a known problematic AR manufacturer is "as good as" an AR of known quality as judged by guys who do "drop into hostile areas"?

Cole125
11-20-2011, 13:00
I'm not a high speed operator either and thats my point. How can guys like us make the judgment that a known problematic AR manufacturer is "as good as" an AR of known quality as judged by guys who do "drop into hostile areas"?

If a DPMS works for him, then great. Not everyone needs a high dollar AR, and just because a brand has issues does not mean all the rifles they make do.

I have a CMMG rifle which I am very happy with, and I hear a fair amount of slandering of CMMG on here and other forums. Sure its not a BCM or a Colt but it works for me.

michael e
11-20-2011, 13:12
I bought a Colt to start with. Only thing I did wrong was not stock up on ammo when it was less than 80 a case. I still kick myself everytime I see the prices now.

mjkeat
11-20-2011, 14:00
If a DPMS works for him, then great. Not everyone needs a high dollar AR, and just because a brand has issues does not mean all the rifles they make do.

I have a CMMG rifle which I am very happy with, and I hear a fair amount of slandering of CMMG on here and other forums. Sure its not a BCM or a Colt but it works for me.

I agree, good for him, but thats not what I was commenting on.

You missed the most important part of his prior post. He said the are the same when in reality they are anything but. Thats why DPMS refuses to be compared to other manufacturers on a public platform.

I simply asked how he could come to the conclusion that they are the same if he has never really tested them then dismiss the testimony from those that have.

I'm not saying you have to spend the extra $50 or so to get a quality firearm though I would. That handful of change saved isn't worth worrying what I'll be getting. Good quality rifles can be had for under $1k.

I myself purchased a BCM LW 14.5" upper w/ perm attached BattleComp 1.5 complete w/ BCM bcg and MOE HG for $475. Granted it had a couple hundred rounds through it but the way I look at it is the guy broke it in for me so I wouldn't have to and worked out any bugs that may have existed.

Edit: it had a Gunfighter CH as well.

I too own a piece of CMMG gear, its an upper receiver, guess what, the pic rail is out spec. Not a big deal considering its a .22 dedicated upper but w/ me they are batting 100% when it comes to being crap.

RWBlue
11-20-2011, 14:26
I bought an HBAR. Then I added a scope on the carry handle. All in all it runs well and is very accurate with my hand loads. Considering when I did this and availability, I think I did ok.

My 300-221 has been a hit and miss project. I knew it was an experiment when I started it. I learned a lot from the experiment, but ...... It would have been much easier to build a 9mm SBR.

There have been a few other minor issues in the other builds.

It is a learning process.

bmoore
11-20-2011, 14:56
I agree, good for him, but thats not what I was commenting on.

You missed the most important part of his prior post. He said the are the same when in reality they are anything but. Thats why DPMS refuses to be compared to other manufacturers on a public platform.

I simply asked how he could come to the conclusion that they are the same if he has never really tested them then dismiss the testimony from those that have.

I'm not saying you have to spend the extra $50 or so to get a quality firearm though I would. That handful of change saved isn't worth worrying what I'll be getting. Good quality rifles can be had for under $1k.

I myself purchased a BCM LW 14.5" upper w/ perm attached BattleComp 1.5 complete w/ BCM bcg and MOE HG for $475. Granted it had a couple hundred rounds through it but the way I look at it is the guy broke it in for me so I wouldn't have to and worked out any bugs that may have existed.

Edit: it had a Gunfighter CH as well.

I too own a piece of CMMG gear, its an upper receiver, guess what, the pic rail is out spec. Not a big deal considering its a .22 dedicated upper but w/ me they are batting 100% when it comes to being crap.

If I came up on a BCM upper for that price, I would be all over it. You did really well on that deal.

mjkeat
11-20-2011, 17:08
If I came up on a BCM upper for that price, I would be all over it. You did really well on that deal.

Patients. I sat on some cash and continuously check the EE's. Only took about a month.

MadMonkey
11-20-2011, 17:10
< Specops operator here. I once spent more than .015 seconds engaging three different tangos. Embarrassed the hell out of me, won't make that mistake again.

mjkeat
11-20-2011, 19:05
< Specops operator here. I once spent more than .015 seconds engaging three different tangos. Embarrassed the hell out of me, won't make that mistake again.

How's Yuma, still gang infested and dry as hell?

MadMonkey
11-20-2011, 20:46
How's Yuma, still gang infested and dry as hell?

Actually, it has rained several times since I've been there:rofl:

Gang infested I'm sure, but being a few miles from the Mexican border I'm not surprised. I stay in the "good" (new) part of town mostly, unless I need to go downtown for something like a haircut, so I haven't really had to deal with the less than lovely people yet.

All in all it's not a terrible place, but I wouldn't want to live there permanently.

bmoore
11-20-2011, 22:06
How's Yuma, still gang infested and dry as hell?

Whoa Whoa Whoa, Yuma is my river stomping grounds. If Yuma is gang infested then where I work is Disneyland.

larry_minn
11-20-2011, 22:38
I looked at some Hesse arms ARs. (and HK knockoffs) and almost let the price excite me.
Instead I talked to some folks in the know. REAL SWAT folks who compete in competitions for LEO only, and do real thing on street.

They pointed me to DPMS, I got to meet with folks who built them... So I bought one and have been very happy with it. It was built infront of me.

Its more accurate then I am, has less then two thousand rds (would have to check) I was shown a couple of (internet issues) with DPMS. How easy it is for person to "stake pins" how chrome barrel is good/bad and basicly not a issue for a semi auto where you can care/store it in decent location.
I have had ONE failure that was not clearly ammo issue. Weak side, on ground, shooting UNDER SUV in gravel pit training course. (two day course, from 5 yrds to 500 yrds, room clearing, team assults across open ground, two man hallway (with possible threat front/rear)
Basicly stuff way over my head. The DPMS had no issues. Had to loan it to a couple of folks heading back to sandbox because their COLTs went **** up.

american lockpicker
11-20-2011, 22:58
I've been told I should have gotten a Colt instead of an Armalite(M16A2) but it works fine, is accurate and accepts a M9 bayo so I'm happy with it.

mjkeat
11-21-2011, 00:14
Actually, it has rained several times since I've been there:rofl:

Gang infested I'm sure, but being a few miles from the Mexican border I'm not surprised. I stay in the "good" (new) part of town mostly, unless I need to go downtown for something like a haircut, so I haven't really had to deal with the less than lovely people yet.

All in all it's not a terrible place, but I wouldn't want to live there permanently.

Whoa Whoa Whoa, Yuma is my river stomping grounds. If Yuma is gang infested then where I work is Disneyland.

Holy Hijack, lol.

I lived in Yuma during middle and early high school. I have never seen so many gang fights, teachers beat up, or drive by shootings at a school. At one point they had to call out the cops because there was a riot at one of the high schools.

The coolest thing about Yuma was the desert and harriers.

-----

I would say another mistake I made was buying ARs before really finishing the AR I was working on at the time. Now that I look back on it one or two extremely high quality ARs would be better than a hand full of quality ARs.

Chinese Grock
11-21-2011, 03:03
NcStar, UTG, & Wolf

M&P15T
11-21-2011, 10:12
You missed the most important part of his prior post. He said the are the same when in reality they are anything but. Thats why DPMS refuses to be compared to other manufacturers on a public platform.

I simply asked how he could come to the conclusion that they are the same if he has never really tested them then dismiss the testimony from those that have.

No, no he didn't. He said it shoots and runs the same as his Colt. He never said they were the same, he said they worked the same.

Big difference.

Also, he owns a Colt, so he has tested his DPMS against the Gold Standard of ARs, his Colt.

I'm not a high speed operator either and thats my point. How can guys like us make the judgment that a known problematic AR manufacturer is "as good as" an AR of known quality as judged by guys who do "drop into hostile areas"?

Being in the Military is not a pre-requisite for shooting ARs, or judging the quality of ARs. There are some serious AR afficianados that have never been in the Military, but know a whole hell of alot more about ARs than people that have.

The point that a few people are trying to make, is that the needs of a civilian shooter are not the same as for the Military. The average civilian shooter shoots very rarely, doesn't use their ARs nearly as much. As long a a given AR is reliable and accurate, the rest is moot. While I am a big fan of The Chart, and good AR brands like Colt, BCM, DD, etc., those ARs are built better than necessary for what is nothing more than range toys and basic HD weapons for the average civilian shooter.

Put it another way, personal experience is MUCH more important than what you read here and other places on the internet.

ghostman1960
11-21-2011, 10:24
Bickering already.

HDRider2002
11-21-2011, 10:43
Took out buffer and spring and forget to put it back it in then ripped the CH back and got that bolt carrier stuck pretty bad.

I did that once too...knew something was wrong when i pulled the CH and there was zero spring tension. Thought i was going to have to pull the buffer tube to get it out, but i managed to free it anyway.

Gunnut 45/454
11-21-2011, 10:48
mjkeat
Gee if it goes bang everytime you pull the trigger, puts the bullets where you need them, feeds them into the chamber everytime. What more of a test do you or I need!!!
Nothing has falling off of it. FSB isn't canted to one side, handguards are still there, bolt hasn't cracked etc. It is a given fact you put thousands of rounds through a firearm -something will wear out and or break! Think about it these operators or Op wanttabees put thousands of rounds down range with in a year -somethings going to break period end of discussion and I don't care who made the gun or how many thousands they spent on it! I know when I need this DPMS to go bang it will and it will put holes in what I'm shooting at!:)

mjkeat
11-21-2011, 10:58
No, no he didn't. He said it shoots and runs the same as his Colt. He never said they were the same, he said they worked the same.

Big difference.

Also, he owns a Colt, so he has tested his DPMS against the Gold Standard of ARs, his Colt.



Being in the Military is not a pre-requisite for shooting ARs, or judging the quality of ARs. There are some serious AR afficianados that have never been in the Military, but know a whole hell of alot more about ARs than people that have.

The point that a few people are trying to make, is that the needs of a civilian shooter are not the same as for the Military. The average civilian shooter shoots very rarely, doesn't use their ARs nearly as much. As long a a given AR is reliable and accurate, the rest is moot. While I am a big fan of The Chart, and good AR brands like Colt, BCM, DD, etc., those ARs are built better than necessary for what is nothing more than range toys and basic HD weapons for the average civilian shooter.

Put it another way, personal experience is MUCH more important than what you read here and other places on the internet.


I attempted to be clear but I guess I failed. If he has not used the device as intended he can not pass proper judgment. Maybe for his use they are the same or work the same but in reality they are worlds apart.

Everyone has their own individual needs and requirements and there is an AR out there to fit. But Posting the old stand by, "they are the same" or whatever variation you want to consider it is inaccurate.

I may want a $700 ABC for the range or a $900 BCM so I can play "smooth operator" at the range. Both work mechanically the same and visually appear to be the same but they are not the same. They aren't even made of the same materials or even assembled the same.

Probably the best way I've heard it explained is though a Yugo and corvette are both cars which you steer w/ the steering wheel, make go w/ the accelerator and stop w/ the brake pedal they are far from the same.

mjkeat
11-21-2011, 11:06
Bickering already.

Sorry ghost.

I guess I should learn when to shake my head and walk away lol.

mjkeat
Gee if it goes bang everytime you pull the trigger, puts the bullets where you need them, feeds them into the chamber everytime. What more of a test do you or I need!!!
Nothing has falling off of it. FSB isn't canted to one side, handguards are still there, bolt hasn't cracked etc. It is a given fact you put thousands of rounds through a firearm -something will wear out and or break! Think about it these operators or Op wanttabees put thousands of rounds down range with in a year -somethings going to break period end of discussion and I don't care who made the gun or how many thousands they spent on it! I know when I need this DPMS to go bang it will and it will put holes in what I'm shooting at!:)

See the automobile example above.

By thousands do you mean 1 or 2 thousand or 30 or 40 thousand? Read Filthy 14

bchand01
11-21-2011, 11:15
Bought a stag... Put CAA rails on it and a TruGlo cheap red dot.... Oops. I wondered why I couldn't hit anything past like 30 yards.
Then I learned a bit more and bought a BCM upper and put a TRX extreme and run iron sights. Not much to go wrong right now.

M&P15T
11-21-2011, 11:52
I attempted to be clear but I guess I failed. If he has not used the device as intended he can not pass proper judgment. Maybe for his use they are the same or work the same but in reality they are worlds apart.

Everyone has their own individual needs and requirements and there is an AR out there to fit. But Posting the old stand by, "they are the same" or whatever variation you want to consider it is inaccurate.

I may want a $700 ABC for the range or a $900 BCM so I can play "smooth operator" at the range. Both work mechanically the same and visually appear to be the same but they are not the same. They aren't even made of the same materials or even assembled the same.

Probably the best way I've heard it explained is though a Yugo and corvette are both cars which you steer w/ the steering wheel, make go w/ the accelerator and stop w/ the brake pedal they are far from the same.

Please explain what you mean by "use the device as intended?" The impression I get is that unless Gunnut has served as a SEAL in Afghanistan, you don't think he can properly be the judge of the differences between two rifles that he owns, how each one works for him.

As far as DPMS and Colt being the same, Gunnut never said that....never. He said they "work" the same. Big difference. Gunnut didn't say that his DPMS is as qualitatively good as his Colt, he said it works just as well. And there's a major difference between those to ideas. One is ignorant and incorrect, the other is pragmatic about practical application.

Everyone can read the chart, and I'm sure that Gunnut, also owning a Colt AR, knows there are qualitative differences between DPMS and Colt. The point is that those differences don't mean much to civilian shooters as long as their personal AR is accurate and reliable.

You keep trying to make out that a BCM or a Colt is some dramatically different beast than a DPMS (i.e. Yugo/Corvette), and they're not for recreational shooters. Are there qualitative differences in materials and build? Sure. Anything major? Only if you really use your AR hard, then there are differences where the quality comes through. Someone that hits the range a few times a year isn't going to see any difference.

Perhaps instead of talking cars when discussing the differences between a DPMS and Colt/BCM, it would be better to compare something like golf clubs. For an average 3-5 times a year golfer, there's not much difference between mid and high-range golf clubs. They're (the golfer) not good enough for the qualitative differences between the clubs to have any impact.

punkey71
11-21-2011, 12:57
Sorry ghost.

I guess I should learn when to shake my head and walk away lol.



See the automobile example above.

By thousands do you mean 1 or 2 thousand or 30 or 40 thousand? Read Filthy 14

It's kinda funny...the argument has now become what does "is the same" VS " what works the same" mean?

If I'm trying to slice a London Broil an ax and steak knife WORK the same (cut it into smaller pieces) but they are not the same. If you like your steak cut with an ax, fine, but please don't try to convince us it is the same as that cut with a fine steak knife and proper technique.

Once folks differentiate those two points the argument will be over...but it will never happen. The folks buying axes are trying to convince themselves (and you as well) they bought steak knives.

DPMS/RRA/Hesse/OLY/Bushmaster are the AX
PSA is the new steak knife maker who's handles fall off occasionally
Colt/DD/LMT/BCM/Larue/KAC are the proven steak knives

Take your pick...but don't confuse them.

Now one cares what you buy...just don't pizz on our legs and tell us it's raining.

M&P15T
11-21-2011, 13:06
It's kinda funny...the argument has now become what does "is the same" VS " what works the same" mean?

If I'm trying to slice a London Broil an ax and steak knife WORK the same (cut it into smaller pieces) but they are not the same. If you like your steak cut with an ax, fine, but please don't try to convince us it is the same as that cut with a fine steak knife and proper technique.

Once folks differentiate those two points the argument will be over...but it will never happen. The folks buying axes are trying to convince themselves (and you as well) they bought steak knives.

DPMS/RRA/Hesse/OLY/Bushmaster are the AX
PSA is the new steak knife maker who's handles fall off occasionally
Colt/DD/LMT/BCM/Larue/KAC are the proven steak knives

Take your pick...but don't confuse them.

Now one cares what you buy...just don't pizz on our legs and tell us it's raining.

I really don't think anyone in this thread has attempted to say that there aren't differences between DPMSs/Bushmasters and Colts/BCMs/D.D.s, etc., no one has tried to say they're built the same with the same quality materials.

whmaxwell
11-21-2011, 13:13
None, our AR15 belongs to my wife and she won't let me touch it :) Now, my AKs, that's a different story :)

punkey71
11-21-2011, 13:31
I really don't think anyone in this thread has attempted to say that there aren't differences between DPMSs/Bushmasters and Colts/BCMs/D.D.s, etc., no one has tried to say they're built the same with the same quality materials.

Please explain what you mean by "use the device as intended?" The impression I get is that unless Gunnut has served as a SEAL in Afghanistan, you don't think he can properly be the judge of the differences between two rifles that he owns, how each one works for him.

It's a simple matter of assumed intention of use. If you buy a rifle that looks a heck of a lot like the current military issued rifle and then claim you don't need a rifle for similar purposes you kinda look silly in my opinion. Yes, I know you can buy whatever you want...yes, you have a RIGHT to buy it...blah, blah, blah. Do what you want.

If you want to buy a gun that "LOOKS" like a military rifle, fine. Don't try to tell those who want to buy something that is built to the same/similar specs as a Colt they are wannabes or elitists.

A Cobra kit car on a VW chassis is NOT a Cobra. If the kit is your bag, cool. Going to a Cobra collectors club and telling everyone they "work the same" might earn you some sour looks though...

M&P15T
11-21-2011, 13:40
Please explain what you mean by "use the device as intended?" The impression I get is that unless Gunnut has served as a SEAL in Afghanistan, you don't think he can properly be the judge of the differences between two rifles that he owns, how each one works for him.

It's a simple matter of assumed intention of use. If you buy a rifle that looks a heck of a lot like the current military issued rifle and then claim you don't need a rifle for similar purposes you kinda look silly in my opinion. Yes, I know you can buy whatever you want...yes, you have a RIGHT to buy it...blah, blah, blah. Do what you want.

If you want to buy a gun that "LOOKS" like a military rifle, fine. Don't try to tell those who want to buy something that is built to the same/similar specs as a Colt they are wannabes or elitists.

A Cobra kit car on a VW chassis is NOT a Cobra. If the kit is your bag, cool. Going to a Cobra collectors club and telling everyone they "work the same" might earn you some sour looks though...

So you think that every person that buys an AR for anything else other than going to war is silly? Also, no one has ever said anything about anyone being "eliteist" or "wannabes" for purchasing whatever they choose to. Nor has anyone said that Busmaster/DPMS are made as well as Colt/BCM etc.

I think you're reading things into this thread that aren't there.

MadMonkey
11-21-2011, 13:42
Probably the best way I've heard it explained is though a Yugo and corvette are both cars which you steer w/ the steering wheel, make go w/ the accelerator and stop w/ the brake pedal they are far from the same.

it would be better to compare something like golf clubs. For an average 3-5 times a year golfer, there's not much difference between mid and high-range golf clubs. They're (the golfer) not good enough for the qualitative differences between the clubs to have any impact.

If I'm trying to slice a London Broil an ax and steak knife WORK the same (cut it into smaller pieces) but they are not the same. If you like your steak cut with an ax, fine, but please don't try to convince us it is the same as that cut with a fine steak knife and proper technique.

A Cobra kit car on a VW chassis is NOT a Cobra. If the kit is your bag, cool. Going to a Cobra collectors club and telling everyone they "work the same" might earn you some sour looks though...

Aaaaand back to cars :rofl:

punkey71
11-21-2011, 15:42
So you think that every person that buys an AR for anything else other than going to war is silly? Also, no one has ever said anything about anyone being "eliteist" or "wannabes" for purchasing whatever they choose to. Nor has anyone said that Busmaster/DPMS are made as well as Colt/BCM etc.

I think you're reading things into this thread that aren't there.

Your answer is in what you quoted me on..."similar purpose". Defending yourself.

So the answer is no. And you know it. Heck, you quoted the answer yourself but still pretend to be confused.

It's funny how all the PSA (et al) threads go..

A. I bought this super uber cool AR - how did I do? Does it look cool?

B. For $100-200 more you could have gotten an AR with a better/longer track record of producing quality guns

A. Hey man, it's Mil-Spec....it's awesome and cheaper than your "boutique" AR

B. I'm just saying they are new and have had a few hiccups...try a proven brand.

A. I'M JUST A PLINKER DAG NAB IT!!!!! I DON'T NEED A "BATTLE READY AR". I'M NO GOING TO IRAQ!

B. Then why do you mention and/or care if it's mil-spec...since you are not going to Iraq.

PSA fans sing the praises of mil-spec, MPI, FN barrels, HP and when the numerous assembly defects in a short period of time are pointed out all we hear is "I'M JUST A PLINKER!!!!!!".

Any one of us could buy all the parts to build a nearly "mil-spec" AR. It's the guys putting them together that make the difference.

jrs93accord
11-21-2011, 16:34
I bought my first AR back in 2004. It was a DPMS Panther Carbine (11.5" bbl w/ 5.5" FH) with an A2 upper receiver. I spent quite sometime researching exactly what I wanted on it and I wanted good stuff. Stuff like an A.R.M.S. S.I.R. System, EOTech 512A65, VLTOR Modstock, ERGO grip, BCM FA BCG, and MAGPUL PMAGs. Every AR I have bought or built has always had its homework done on it first. I am just one of those very methodical kind of guys.

Gunnut 45/454
11-21-2011, 18:32
punkey71
Let me put it to you this way -you have two hunters both shooting '06 and hunting oh lets say elk! One has a Savage 110F package gun the other a custom rig he spent thousands of dollars on! Both rifle cause of said shooters being average joes as to shooting ability can put said bullet fired from said rifles into one inch groups consistantly at 100 yards!
Please tell me will the Elk know they were shot with two very different in quality /material rifles? Will the Elk die differently? Back to AR's will a perp care if he/she is shot with a $700 AR verses a $2000 AR? A Colt vs a DPMS? I really don't think they will!:whistling:
The real answer to your question the name on the rifle doesn't mean crap! Cause if they all go bang when needed is the only thing that matters at that time!

Spiffums
11-21-2011, 19:21
Me? I tried to go cheap and bought a DSA mid length upper and put UTG rails on it. Yeah, I learned.

http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt45/ghostman1960/020.jpg

Since you have nothing mounted to the rails beside covers it really doesn't matter what rail you have.

ghostman1960
11-21-2011, 21:47
Since you have nothing mounted to the rails beside covers it really doesn't matter what rail you have.

I do now.

http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz159/ghostman1961/DSCF3572.jpg

mjkeat
11-21-2011, 22:10
I bought a DPMS 16" carbine upper -before I read all the good reviews and how unGodly it was to even mention the fact that I own it! Only to find out it shoots just as good/ runs just as good as my Colt!:rofl:

I went back to the original post that started all of this. As you can see he was trolling, like he usually does when there's any comparison of quality between ARs, for such a response and I bit. My fault, sorry the "just as good" stuff bothers me.

I never said anyone needs to purchase a certain AR though I'll admit I have in the past.

People keep throwing out numbers like $700 vs. $2000. Those numbers are a gross exaggeration. I have a BCM that cost under $900 and most DDs are slightly over $1k.

What I meant by "use as intended" is simple. We'll use cars as most guys seem to understand those. One can perceive that a Yugo and a Corvette "run" the same while putting around town running errands (ie sitting on a bench at the range sending a round down range every few seconds) but get them on the highway outside of town where you can open them up a little and "run just as good" falls apart quickly. As the Corvette hits 120mph the Yugo is approaching 60 mph and overheating. Run a Yugo at 120 for any extended length of time and see what happens all the while the Corvette feels right at home doing 120 and more. In fact the Vette prefers being ran hard while the Yugo begins to shake and sputter. It's not the Yugo's fault it wasn't built for high speed use it is simply a commuter car.

MadMonkey
11-21-2011, 22:33
This seemed appropriate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUOJzYtdTKI

bmoore
11-21-2011, 22:45
This seemed appropriate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUOJzYtdTKI

That was really funny. :rofl:

mjkeat
11-21-2011, 23:21
That's actually very appropriate and funny to boot. It would have saved me a lot of typing, and it involves cars, lol.

commando57
11-22-2011, 05:33
But a Yugo does not look like a Corvette. The Cobra and the Cobra kit car are a much better analagy. And some of the kit cars have striking performance.

""" One can perceive that a Yugo and a Corvette "run" the same while putting around town running errands (ie sitting on a bench at the range sending a round down range every few seconds) but get them on the highway outside of town where you can open them up a little and "run just as good" falls apart quickly. As the Corvette hits 120mph the Yugo is approaching 60 mph and overheating. Run a Yugo at 120 for any extended length of time and see what happens all the while the Corvette feels right at home doing 120 and more."""

eracer
11-22-2011, 05:43
Bickering already.It took 30 posts to start. That's pretty good for this place.

vafish
11-22-2011, 06:33
During the Obama scare I tried to build an ar for my son. Only barrel I could find was from gun parts corp and it had no barrel extension on it. That was a bit more work then I thought it would be.

MaximaDrvr
11-22-2011, 08:34
Installed the hammer spring upside-down. Pin walked and gun went into fun mode.

Gunnut 45/454
11-22-2011, 12:20
mjkeat
Yea thats a basic gun is it with or without sights? Then you got to add your aimpoint or other optic for what $450-500 so now your basic rifle is what $1400 ? Yes I'm such a troll thanks for playing. How do you explain why so many cop shops etc. don't have your
DD's and BCM's as there patrol rifles but Bushy/DPMS etc? It's cost not that they don't perform cause they are cost effective.

mjkeat
11-22-2011, 12:57
mjkeat
Yea thats a basic gun is it with or without sights? Then you got to add your aimpoint or other optic for what $450-500 so now your basic rifle is what $1400 ? Yes I'm such a troll thanks for playing. How do you explain why so many cop shops etc. don't have your
DD's and BCM's as there patrol rifles but Bushy/DPMS etc? It's cost not that they don't perform cause they are cost effective.

Does Aimpoint give out free optics to purchasers of DPMS rifles?

"Thanks for playing"? I heard a little girl say that yesterday at my sons school Thanksgiving program.

After reading,


I bought a DPMS 16" carbine upper -before I read all the good reviews and how unGodly it was to even mention the fact that I own it! Only to find out it shoots just as good/ runs just as good as my Colt!:rofl:

, what other conclusion could one come away w/?

In general LEOs are not "gun guys" and the suits are the ones doing all the budgeting. How many bean pushers do you know who can differentiate firearm quality? Are for that matter how many do you know that would put quality over cost savings? And how often do most LEOs use their ARs, during qualification and in the rare accurance for show of force? Other than that are they not sitting in the truck of a squad car or in a rack?

I'm fortunate in that the city I live in just placed an order for a handful of Colts.

ghostman1960
11-22-2011, 13:45
I'm going to ask that this thread stay on topic. Please keep away from arguing about brands. Thank you.

RWBlue
11-22-2011, 14:37
In general LEOs are not "gun guys" and the suits are the ones doing all the budgeting. How many bean pushers do you know who can differentiate firearm quality? Are for that matter how many do you know that would put quality over cost savings? And how often do most LEOs use their ARs, during qualification and in the rare accurance for show of force? Other than that are they not sitting in the truck of a squad car or in a rack?


I always found it interesting when an agency ordered H&Ks back in the day because H&Ks were only selling to LEO and Military, they had the cool factor.

They were ordered in full auto until the first year at the range when someone realized just how much ammo a full auto MK5 can burn in an hour.:shocked: Then converted to semi-auto.

Ah the stupidity of procurement.

Thank go we don't have this problem with it sec. Oh, wait a minute, I work for a quasi gov. entity. We do have this issue with IT Sec.

Gunnut 45/454
11-22-2011, 16:04
mjkeat
And 95% of AR owners are not slick Operators, Three gun match guys, or wantabee Merc's, so why do you keep coming back to you must own a top dollar AR. Just like 95% of the hunting rifles sold are not the top brand named rifles! The majority of AR owners don't need nor want the top dollar guns!
Can you not understand your quality of materials/ mil spec arguement just doesn't make it for most of us!! We are more then happy to have an AR that does exactly what we want when we want it!

MrMurphy
11-22-2011, 16:30
Some people are in that top 10-15%, do understand the difference AND demand it.


If you want a plinker, feel free to buy one.

This thread has successfully derailed itself twice and is now closed.