opinions on a Bushmaster Patrolman a3 carbine vs Spikes Tactical m4? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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TsunamiMike
11-18-2011, 21:51
so i am looking at getting my first AR around black friday. The two rifles above are about $850 each and sounds like a good entry level point. Start with iron sights then move to optics later..

samuse
11-18-2011, 22:06
Save another $250 and get a Colt 6920.

Then it'll be LE/mil grade and you'll be set with a good gun from the get-go.

boomhower
11-19-2011, 00:27
Save another $250 and get a Colt 6920.

Then it'll be LE/mil grade and you'll be set with a good gun from the get-go.

I agree and actually they are quite easy to find at <$1000 now.

Of the two listed go Spikes.


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Reswob
11-19-2011, 01:07
Save another $250 and get a Colt 6920.

Then it'll be LE/mil grade and you'll be set with a good gun from the get-go.

Curious which component(s) of the Colt you think are different/better than the Spike's? Both are 'mil-spec' with all the proper materials, fancy mpi testing, etc. Spikes has the goofy spider rollmark but that's the only thing wrong with it.

boomhower
11-19-2011, 01:22
Curious which component(s) of the Colt you think are different/better than the Spike's? Both are 'mil-spec' with all the proper materials, fancy mpi testing, etc. Spikes has the goofy spider rollmark but that's the only thing wrong with it.

Spikes ticks the right boxes on the spec sheet and it's a good gun. For me it's several reasons that don't need to be rehashed here. Mechanically they are more or less the same. Resale value is also something that should be considered.


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jonbondave
11-19-2011, 01:38
Or buy a BCM blem lower from G & R tact for like 269 + 15 for shipping and a BCM upper + bcg + charging handle and even some basic handguards all for around 670 shipped to your door. and have a great gun from the get go for probably a bit cheaper.

Eurodriver
11-19-2011, 04:36
Save another $250 and get a Colt 6920.

Then it'll be LE/mil grade and you'll be set with a good gun from the get-go.

I agree.

conch27
11-19-2011, 08:00
Can not go wrong with a spikes. I had a bushmaster as well and it was great. No problems with either. Colt is the standard and you can not go wrong there.

faawrenchbndr
11-19-2011, 10:59
Curious which component(s) of the Colt you think are different/better than the Spike's?......


Trigger, trigger pins, sear, springs, bolt, bolt carrier, sights, barrel,
gas tube, buffer tube, buffer, buffer spring, handguards, pivot pins,
sights, upper receiver, lower receiver, trigger guard, grip, grip screw,
butt stock & flash hider.

You also get none of the BS from Colt like Spikes was dishing out a few years back.

Top_Shot_31
11-19-2011, 11:18
Don't even need to save that much more for a Colt 6920. As said above, Colt is Mil-Spec. All Colt ARs are Mil-Spec.

$945+shipping+transfer fees.

http://dsgarms.com/ProductInfo/CO6920-OB.aspx

IGotIt
11-19-2011, 11:27
Getting back to the original question, if I had to choose between the Spikes and a Bushmaster, I would choose the Spikes.

jonbondave
11-19-2011, 11:38
Trigger, trigger pins, sear, springs, bolt, bolt carrier, sights, barrel,
gas tube, buffer tube, buffer, buffer spring, handguards, pivot pins,
sights, upper receiver, lower receiver, trigger guard, grip, grip screw,
butt stock & flash hider.

You also get none of the BS from Colt like Spikes was dishing out a few years back.

I agree that Colt is the gold standard, but being fairly new to AR's i wanna know what the BS Spike's was dishing outa few years ago is/was. I will also add, that while many companies make a decent "Mil-spec" rifle for more or less money than colt, ONLY Colt and FN actually have the TDP... so really only colt and FN make true, 100% mil spec AR's... and FN doesn't sell them to us.

Eurodriver
11-19-2011, 12:57
I agree that Colt is the gold standard, but being fairly new to AR's i wanna know what the BS Spike's was dishing outa few years ago is/was. I will also add, that while many companies make a decent "Mil-spec" rifle for more or less money than colt, ONLY Colt and FN actually have the TDP... so really only colt and FN make true, 100% mil spec AR's... and FN doesn't sell them to us.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/783339_.html

Spikes Tactical increased the prices of their stripped lowers by $65 (a full 50% increase) the night Obama was elected and then blamed it on an "increase in material cost" :upeyes:

I will readily admit that I do not own a Colt. But if I were to do it all over again and buy my first AR15, I would get a Colt 6920 if only for the resale value.

jonbondave
11-19-2011, 13:18
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/783339_.html

Spikes Tactical increased the prices of their stripped lowers by $65 (a full 50% increase) the night Obama was elected and then blamed it on an "increase in material cost" :upeyes:

I will readily admit that I do not own a Colt. But if I were to do it all over again and buy my first AR15, I would get a Colt 6920 if only for the resale value.

I bought a Stag for my first AR, still have it. It works, but the upper will be replaced with a BCM. If I were doing it all over I'd still probably go the same route. I bougth a gun for 752 dollars to re familiarize myself with the platform, I can sell the upper for 500 dollars give or take and still have a perfectly good lower to use with a future BCM 14.5 middy. If colt sold 14.5's pinned, I'd start with them! But since I live in WA state, I can't own a registered SBR.... 14.5 with pinned is as short as i can go! plus, I trust the 14.5 carbine gas system probably more than any other but the 20 inch witha rifle gas system.

Eurodriver
11-19-2011, 13:35
I bought a Stag for my first AR, still have it. It works, but the upper will be replaced with a BCM. If I were doing it all over I'd still probably go the same route. I bougth a gun for 752 dollars to re familiarize myself with the platform, I can sell the upper for 500 dollars give or take and still have a perfectly good lower to use with a future BCM 14.5 middy. If colt sold 14.5's pinned, I'd start with them! But since I live in WA state, I can't own a registered SBR.... 14.5 with pinned is as short as i can go! plus, I trust the 14.5 carbine gas system probably more than any other but the 20 inch witha rifle gas system.

The first AR I bought was a Bushmaster, the 2nd one was a Stag.

Then I discovered BCM, the chart, and became a born again AR owner :tongueout:

I really like Colt, but I also like accessories. You really can't beat BCMs pricing and availability when it comes to custom uppers. They literally have everything, which is the main reason I've bought 6 uppers from them.

If Colt started selling custom uppers, they would get my money but until then I'll keep throwing them at a BCM.

jonbondave
11-19-2011, 13:45
Yea, you know if colt was pumping out uppers with the barrel lengths and gas configurations i wanted, I'd probably run all colt uppers!. I do wish though that i hada ready source of colt lowers just for the role marks. But again, at 269.00 for a blemished complete lower sans stock (which i'll replace anyhow) BCM is killing the comp! BTW, the AR I shot from my youth through young adulthood was my father's pre ban Colt Sporter II i think it was called. It was a fantastic gun, super accurate and fun to shoot when i was a kid.

QNman
11-19-2011, 14:27
Spikes makes a damn fine rifle, entry-level or otherwise. So does Bushmaster. I don't think you'd go wrong either way.

I currently have several rifles and the Spikes is my favorite of the ones I own.

Reswob
11-19-2011, 16:38
Trigger, trigger pins, sear, springs, bolt, bolt carrier, sights, barrel,
gas tube, buffer tube, buffer, buffer spring, handguards, pivot pins,
sights, upper receiver, lower receiver, trigger guard, grip, grip screw,
butt stock & flash hider.


:upeyes: Keep on thinking that if it'll help you justify paying too much for your "hands down best AR-15 evar, everything else sucks even though it's made exactly the same" rifle...

jonbondave
11-19-2011, 16:56
:upeyes: Keep on thinking that if it'll help you justify paying too much for your "hands down best AR-15 evar, everything else sucks even though it's made exactly the same" rifle...

Made exactly the same vs what? If you're saying it's not better than a noveske, LMT, Bcm, Daniel Defense etc etc, I'll buy into that. If you're saying it's not as good as a DPMS, Bushmaster, RRA, Stag etc etc. Then I'll have to point out that you, are in fact crazy. I know the upper and lower naked frames are pretty much the same... that's where the "made the same" similarities end.

faawrenchbndr
11-19-2011, 17:02
I bought a Stag for my first AR, still have it. It works,......


Stag is good stuff,.......I'd take one over a Spikes!
If concerned about any parts/pieces replace the BCG with a BMC unit

jonbondave
11-19-2011, 17:21
Stag is good stuff,.......I'd take one over a Spikes!
If concerned about any parts/pieces replace the BCG with a BMC unit

I'm not dinging stag. I'm not dinging any of them. They're all good for what they are, I'm just saying that there IS a difference between low tier guns, mid tier guns and top tier guns. To state otherwise is just being ignorant of reality, it's like saying a Taurus beretta clone is JUST as good as a italian made beretta... Or that some of the eatern european browning high power clones are in the same tier as a belgian made BHP. OR that armscor 1911's are in the same league as colt, or even wilson's or what have you. They're not, and it's ok, they don't have to be. BTW, Stag puts out a really good product for the price point and if you must have "Mil-spec" they offer you that option fora scant $100.00 more. I would never disuade someone from buying a stag if that's what they wanted. Mine hasn't ever had an issue and I've gotten that barrel smoking hot. I think in short term 95% of the AR's will perform, but there can be durability issue's over time, and if you do alot of shooting it's better to just go with a higher price point gun. Consumer's drive the market, that's why there is such a great diversity in the AR arena, some people will pay for all the extra QC that is put into a top tier gun, some people won't and or do not need to. To each their own, enjoy your guns and teach your children the proper way to enjoy them, leave a great american legacy! :")

faawrenchbndr
11-19-2011, 17:39
These debates go on forever,........
It's a Chevy vs Ford vs Dodge deal! I'm a die hard FORD guy!

I've owned DPMS, Colt, Bushmaster, RRA, Armalite, Stag BCM,......all ran fine for me.
I have built my last few, more expensive, but I feel quality is better.

AK_Stick
11-19-2011, 17:54
My training rifle, untill my new colt gets here, started life as a bush-hampster ORC (optics ready carbine)


I've replaced most of the internals now, through attrition, but the gun has run fine for nearly 10K rounds. I've had my share of jams, and failures, but you get that with any gun.


I, personally, would avoid Spikes due to their buisness practices.

jonbondave
11-19-2011, 17:55
I'm not that advanced yet, I'll be doing that next summer though I'm sure. My BCM build only cost me 984 dollars with shipping/tax and a transfer fee, and buds has a bushy patrolman listed at 873.00 + 3% for CC and a transfer fee and spikes has the M4LE for 849.99 + shipping + a transfer fee. I don't have any first hand experience with spike's, but i'd say that long term the BCM was a better buy. for me at least. :)


Edited: What business practices of stags ?

QNman
11-19-2011, 20:07
I, personally, would avoid Spikes due to their buisness practices.

Which "business practices"? Raising their price?

faawrenchbndr
11-19-2011, 20:31
Which "business practices"? Raising their price?


Seems there was a link posted above,.....& there's always GOOGLE!
Do some leg work for yourself!

Eurodriver
11-19-2011, 20:32
Which "business practices"? Raising their price?

Did you even read my post?

Raising their price within hours of Obama's election and then blaming it on a rise in the cost of materials?

QNman
11-19-2011, 21:16
Did you even read my post?

Raising their price within hours of Obama's election and then blaming it on a rise in the cost of materials?

Just wanted to clarify. That doesn't bother me. I was asking AK if HE had an experience other than yours.

:wavey:

txgunguy
11-19-2011, 21:32
Did you even read my post?

Raising their price within hours of Obama's election and then blaming it on a rise in the cost of materials?

I don't know a single company in the firearms industry that didn't raise their prices. Capitalism at it's finest.

ETA: No one was forced to pay ridiculous firearms or ammo prices. People can buy them at a price point or not. That's free enterprise. I for one didn't overpay for anything during the hype.

OP, I would go spike's of those 2 choices.

txgunguy
11-19-2011, 21:49
Or buy a BCM blem lower from G & R tact for like 269 + 15 for shipping and a BCM upper + bcg + charging handle and even some basic handguards all for around 670 shipped to your door. and have a great gun from the get go for probably a bit cheaper.

Blemished Lower- 269+15+transfer (we will assume $20)= $304 This is without a stock.

Upper- Cheapest upper BCM offers is $399 without BCG, Charging handle, or Handguards.

Total so far= $703

Add a BCG from BCM- $140
M4 Stock- $20 (if bought from G&R with lower)
USGI charging handle- $21.95
USGI Carbine Handguards- $19.95

New Total= $904.90
This is without any shipping rates included. Please show me how you came up with $670 delivered :dunno:

ETA: Factor in a rear sight too.

samuse
11-19-2011, 21:52
:upeyes: Keep on thinking that if it'll help you justify paying too much for your "hands down best AR-15 evar, everything else sucks even though it's made exactly the same" rifle...

:rofl:

Just as good as a what??
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab76/sammuse/AR-Colt/S8002299.jpg

Louisville Glocker
11-19-2011, 21:52
These topics have been hashed and rehashed here, but my experience was to buy a Colt 6920 LE model, like new, for $1025, as my first AR. Served me fine. Zero problems. For my second, I picked up a PSA Patrol Carbine with Aimpoint. At that pricepoint, smokes everything. I don't care if they screwed up three uppers they sent out (they made good on 'em), their products are very good quality. Mil Spec for $600 makes me wonder why people are looking at other options costing more.

But again, this has been discussed in depth on these pages (and other forums). Just my experience.

Reswob
11-19-2011, 22:35
Made exactly the same vs what? If you're saying it's not better than a noveske, LMT, Bcm, Daniel Defense etc etc, I'll buy into that. If you're saying it's not as good as a DPMS, Bushmaster, RRA, Stag etc etc. Then I'll have to point out that you, are in fact crazy. I know the upper and lower naked frames are pretty much the same... that's where the "made the same" similarities end.

Well DPMS, Bushy, RRA, and Stag don't produce "mil-spec" rifles, while Colt, BCM, and others (including Spike's and it looks like PSA) do.

Nothing against Colt, they obviously make a quality rifle, I just find it annoying when the Colt fanboys claim every other AR-15 on the planet is inferior, and can't back it up. And why would you pay $3-400 more for a Colt than any other brand that produces a rifle of the exact same quality? And the resale value argument is a joke - sure it will resell for less than a Colt, but you paid a lot less than a Colt for it in the first place!

Feanor
11-19-2011, 22:59
so i am looking at getting my first AR around black friday. The two rifles above are about $850 each and sounds like a good entry level point. Start with iron sights then move to optics later..

Neither, you can get a Colt's 6920 for just over, or just under a grand, you can also find 6940's like the one pictured for around $1300.00.

LawScholar
11-20-2011, 00:00
Feanor, I saw those 6940s on Buds. How are they different from the 6920?

boomhower
11-20-2011, 00:06
Feanor, I saw those 6940s on Buds. How are they different from the 6920?

Integrated mono railed upper with flipper sights. The upper is difficult at best to change barrels and/rail. The sites are generally liked but I don't have experience with them. I would get a 6920 and add the rail of your choice.


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LawScholar
11-20-2011, 00:56
Thanks :)

wdphillips
11-20-2011, 07:48
Well DPMS, Bushy, RRA, and Stag don't produce "mil-spec" rifles, while Colt, BCM, and others (including Spike's and it looks like PSA) do.



Just curious as I have never done this. If you put an non "mil-spec" upper on a "mil-spec" lower, will it function?

faawrenchbndr
11-20-2011, 08:25
Just curious as I have never done this. If you put an non "mil-spec" upper on a "mil-spec" lower, will it function?


Not if the upper is a DPMS!





:rofl:

wdphillips
11-20-2011, 09:13
Not if the upper is a DPMS!

:rofl:

Jeez how did you know I bought a DPMS upper?:crying:

How about a DPMS upper on a Bushmaster Lower!:shocked:

QNman
11-20-2011, 10:11
Just curious as I have never done this. If you put an non "mil-spec" upper on a "mil-spec" lower, will it function?

Yes, it will.

boomhower
11-20-2011, 11:43
Just curious as I have never done this. If you put an non "mil-spec" upper on a "mil-spec" lower, will it function?

It depends. It should but it just matter how it is not milspec. If its a materials/testing type thing then yeah it will work. If it's poorly machined and out of spec then it may not.

faawrenchbndr
11-20-2011, 11:46
Jeez how did you know I bought a DPMS upper?:crying:

How about a DPMS upper on a Bushmaster Lower!:shocked:


Just a JOKE! I've had both and never an issue with either.

DieselNut
11-20-2011, 18:45
Be a real man and buy a Vulcan

QNman
11-20-2011, 19:02
Be a real man and buy a Vulcan

http://www.bloggingforautism.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/2011-04-05-SPOCK.jpg

Feanor
11-20-2011, 21:43
Integrated mono railed upper with flipper sights. The upper is difficult at best to change barrels and/rail. The sites are generally liked but I don't have experience with them. I would get a 6920 and add the rail of your choice.


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The barrel is as easy to change as any AR15, the rail however is for ever. Sights are excellent, the front flip is quite robust. I bought the 6940 LE carbine for $1400.00, later I added a 6920 upper so as to give myself the option of dressing it as I liked.

Thats exactly what I advise new shooters to do, buy the monolithic upper carbine and then add the 6920 upper later on and be done with it. In my estimation Colt's is the first name in 5.56 carbines.

jonbondave
11-20-2011, 22:53
Blemished Lower- 269+15+transfer (we will assume $20)= $304 This is without a stock.

Upper- Cheapest upper BCM offers is $399 without BCG, Charging handle, or Handguards.

Total so far= $703

Add a BCG from BCM- $140
M4 Stock- $20 (if bought from G&R with lower)
USGI charging handle- $21.95
USGI Carbine Handguards- $19.95

New Total= $904.90
This is without any shipping rates included. Please show me how you came up with $670 delivered :dunno:

ETA: Factor in a rear sight too.

I didn't come up with 670.00. IF you read the post it says the upper, BCG, BCM gunfighter charging handle AND I also got a H buffer for another lower delivered for 670 dollars. I was betting on people being able to add the 670 + the cost of the lower which is 269.00 + 15.00 shipping and 25.00 dollars transfer fee. Anyhow.................................... it's still a better deal than bushmaster, don't fight it.


Originally Posted by jonbondave
Or buy a BCM blem lower from G & R tact for like 269 + 15 for shipping and a BCM upper + bcg + charging handle and even some basic handguards all for around 670 shipped to your door. and have a great gun from the get go for probably a bit cheaper.

TsunamiMike
12-03-2011, 08:58
I want a completed rifle, I was looking for the 1:9 twists that it could shoot anything. At this point the chrome lined barrel to me is important however I want it wo have a carry handle and the basic front as well. I think that this would be a good start for my potential obsession.

With that new info what is your suggestion?

Eurodriver
12-03-2011, 12:02
I want a completed rifle, I was looking for the 1:9 twists that it could shoot anything. At this point the chrome lined barrel to me is important however I want it wo have a carry handle and the basic front as well. I think that this would be a good start for my potential obsession.

With that new info what is your suggestion?

You need to do more homework. If you want a twist rate that can shoot anything, you should be looking at 1:7.

ColdBlooded
12-03-2011, 12:07
For all those that do not like Spike's, do not click on this link:

AimSurplus Spikes Middy Carbine $769 shipped (http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1STR5035MLS&name=Spikes+Tactical+5.56%2f.223+Rifle&groupid=11),


and it is in stock as of 12:08pm 12/03.

TsunamiMike
12-03-2011, 12:41
i have been perusing the ar15 website and i thought it was 1:9? I have tried to do homework but everyone has opinions...

Here is what i am looking for based on my homework:

-The deal is i want to shoot any and all grains of ammo as primarily will be a range gun but will take some survival classes with it.

-i want a carry handle for rear sights and a standard <a2 i think> front sight <eventually changing out the optics>

-chrome lined barrel

-chambered so that i can shoot .223 and 5.56 <indoor range can only allow .223, but want 5.56 for outdoor>

-i am not a leo or will use it in combat <unless the world comes to an end or the zombie apocalypse happens>

its that easy but there are so many options and the wife wants to buy me something for christmas...

jonbondave
12-03-2011, 13:19
i have been perusing the ar15 website and i thought it was 1:9? I have tried to do homework but everyone has opinions...

Here is what i am looking for based on my homework:

-The deal is i want to shoot any and all grains of ammo as primarily will be a range gun but will take some survival classes with it.

-i want a carry handle for rear sights and a standard <a2 i think> front sight <eventually changing out the optics>

-chrome lined barrel

-chambered so that i can shoot .223 and 5.56 <indoor range can only allow .223, but want 5.56 for outdoor>

-i am not a leo or will use it in combat <unless the world comes to an end or the zombie apocalypse happens>

its that easy but there are so many options and the wife wants to buy me something for christmas...


1:9 twist can't shoot "anything". You may want to do some research before you settle on your twist rate. Alot will depend on the individual barrell, but you basically it comes down too 1:9 can shoot 55-69 grain loads. 1:7 can shoot 55-77 grains. 1:7 is mil spec, so if you buy anything in the top tier you'll be getting 1:7 or maybe 1:8 if it's a stainless barrel.

if you want to shoot 5.56, make sure you buy a gun chambered for 5.56. if your barrel is marked .223, then the nato stuff is out.

A bit of wisdom, many AR brands, make dubious quality weapons but sell them at a premium price, usually for a very small amount more you can havea top tier gun, look at LMT, Colt, BCM, Daniel Defense. Colt 6920's can be had right now for around 940 dollars which is dirt cheap. Check out G&R tactical, and read the imfamous "chart". Some people hate the chart, but reality is no one likes to be told their girlfriend is ugly... just sayin. :)

Scattergun1187
12-03-2011, 13:23
Or buy a BCM blem lower from G & R tact for like 269 + 15 for shipping and a BCM upper + bcg + charging handle and even some basic handguards all for around 670 shipped to your door. and have a great gun from the get go for probably a bit cheaper.

:agree: I would choose this option over the Colt.

jonbondave
12-03-2011, 13:49
:agree: I would choose this option over the Colt.

Well me too, and i did. :) But fora complete rifle, hard to beat the current colt price, and they come with a roger's stock!

QNman
12-03-2011, 14:32
i have been perusing the ar15 website and i thought it was 1:9? I have tried to do homework but everyone has opinions...

Here is what i am looking for based on my homework:

-The deal is i want to shoot any and all grains of ammo as primarily will be a range gun but will take some survival classes with it.

-i want a carry handle for rear sights and a standard <a2 i think> front sight <eventually changing out the optics>

-chrome lined barrel

-chambered so that i can shoot .223 and 5.56 <indoor range can only allow .223, but want 5.56 for outdoor>

-i am not a leo or will use it in combat <unless the world comes to an end or the zombie apocalypse happens>

its that easy but there are so many options and the wife wants to buy me something for christmas...

You're both wrong. The only twist rate that stabilizes anything from 80g to 40g is 1:8 (or so says Black Hills Ammo)

The list you've outlined will suit you just fine. 1:9 - 1:7 will both stabilize 55g all day long, which is probably what you'll be shooting anyway. If you want to go up greater than 69g, get the 1:7. Otherwise, either will do you.

QNman
12-03-2011, 14:37
For all those that do not like Spike's, do not click on this link:

AimSurplus Spikes Middy Carbine $769 shipped (http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1STR5035MLS&name=Spikes+Tactical+5.56%2f.223+Rifle&groupid=11),


and it is in stock as of 12:08pm 12/03.

I would not hesitate to buy this gun. Excellent choice.

jonbondave
12-03-2011, 15:12
You're both wrong. The only twist rate that stabilizes anything from 80g to 40g is 1:8 (or so says Black Hills Ammo)

The list you've outlined will suit you just fine. 1:9 - 1:7 will both stabilize 55g all day long, which is probably what you'll be shooting anyway. If you want to go up greater than 69g, get the 1:7. Otherwise, either will do you.

I only stated 55 grain to 77 grain. I'm not in the know on 1:8. But i do know many precision shooting barrels have that twist. since the majority of shooting is gonna probably be 55-62 grains, either will be fine between 1:7 and 1:9... I like the option of using 75-77 grain loads though. But i don't remember mentioning sub 55 grain loads ever..... or even 80's for that matter. :)

TedG
12-03-2011, 16:41
Getting back to the original question, if I had to choose between the Spikes and a Bushmaster, I would choose the Spikes.

Spikes

UniversalBrow06
12-03-2011, 17:12
All questionable business practices aside and instead strictly concerning overall quality, what specifically is better in a Colt carbine vs. a Spikes? Material choice of components? Fit and finish? Machining process?

I've been pretty darn impressed with my Spikes Elite upper.

QNman
12-03-2011, 20:55
I only stated 55 grain to 77 grain. I'm not in the know on 1:8. But i do know many precision shooting barrels have that twist. since the majority of shooting is gonna probably be 55-62 grains, either will be fine between 1:7 and 1:9... I like the option of using 75-77 grain loads though. But i don't remember mentioning sub 55 grain loads ever..... or even 80's for that matter. :)

Sorry, I meant no offense, but didn't see the OP say which grains he was planning.

Reswob
12-03-2011, 22:40
All questionable business practices aside and instead strictly concerning overall quality, what specifically is better in a Colt carbine vs. a Spikes? Material choice of components? Fit and finish? Machining process?

I've been pretty darn impressed with my Spikes Elite upper.

The Colt costs alot more. It MUST be twice as good.:upeyes:

liberty911
12-03-2011, 23:03
The Colt costs alot more. It MUST be twice as good.:upeyes:

The cheapest complete Spikes is $850 where the Colt 6920 is $940. I usually don't buy into the arguments over which is better, but the Colt being expensive argument just doesn't make sense to me. $90 is really splitting hairs. Hell, I spend more than that just going to see a movie.

What it comes down to is what someone wants to spend. If you want to save a little off the top of the rifle to spend on other things, awesome. If you want to spend $3000 on something else, cool. Who really cares? Why do people get so defensive over four little letters? C O L T

ColdBlooded
12-03-2011, 23:33
The cheapest complete Spikes is $850

Don't mean to split hairs, but you must have skipped my link. Here it is again:

Spikes Middy Carbine W/Mbus Rear Sight $769 shipped (http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1STR5035MLS&name=Spikes+Tactical+5.56%2f.223+Rifle&groupid=11)

liberty911
12-03-2011, 23:35
I did miss the link. I stand corrected. It's a difference of $170.

jonbondave
12-04-2011, 01:14
Sorry, I meant no offense, but didn't see the OP say which grains he was planning.

no offense taken, I was just working on presumption that by saying he wanted to run any grain he really meant 55-77, as those are the more common plinking and defense load weights, anything lower than 55 is for varmint hunting IMHO, in which case you'd probably want 1:12 or whatever the M16 and m16 A1's were made with. Or, thanks to you i now know you can run down to 40 reliably with 1:8. Cheers. :)

jonbondave
12-04-2011, 01:18
I did miss the link. I stand corrected. It's a difference of $170.

One thing to note though, that 170 dollars can come back to you by way of better resale value. I'm not putting Spike's down, I have no experience first hand and haven't heard 1 bad thing other than they raised prices on election night and were slow to get their spec sheet independently verified... big whoop, for most civilian applications the TDP and the chart hold very little meaning, now i'f you wanna run a rifle or carbine hard with a take no prisoner's approach to gun care and maintenance, buy something that scores high on the chart... or if you'd just feel better knowing your rifle could handle the beating and was among the best. Personally, when i shoot my rifles I like to do 500 rounds a session mostly rapid fire, so I want the mil spec stuff!

QNman
12-04-2011, 08:08
One thing to note though, that 170 dollars can come back to you by way of better resale value. I'm not putting Spike's down, I have no experience first hand and haven't heard 1 bad thing other than they raised prices on election night and were slow to get their spec sheet independently verified... big whoop, for most civilian applications the TDP and the chart hold very little meaning, now i'f you wanna run a rifle or carbine hard with a take no prisoner's approach to gun care and maintenance, buy something that scores high on the chart... or if you'd just feel better knowing your rifle could handle the beating and was among the best. Personally, when i shoot my rifles I like to do 500 rounds a session mostly rapid fire, so I want the mil spec stuff!

Well put, sir.

Spiffums
12-04-2011, 10:18
Colt is good if you like their 1 or 2 setups. I wanted a certain look with certain features so I got a BCM with DD Lite 12" rail and put it on my bushy lower. I perfer the bushmaster roll mark and I have a good LPK to replace everything in my lower the 1st time something messes up in it.

Reswob
12-04-2011, 11:47
The cheapest complete Spikes is $850 where the Colt 6920 is $940. I usually don't buy into the arguments over which is better, but the Colt being expensive argument just doesn't make sense to me. $90 is really splitting hairs. Hell, I spend more than that just going to see a movie.

What it comes down to is what someone wants to spend. If you want to save a little off the top of the rifle to spend on other things, awesome. If you want to spend $3000 on something else, cool. Who really cares? Why do people get so defensive over four little letters? C O L T

I don't know where everyone buys their sub-$1k Colts, the 6920s at the gun show this weekend were $1940, not $940

liberty911
12-04-2011, 12:12
I don't know where everyone buys their sub-$1k Colts, the 6920s at the gun show this weekend were $1940, not $940


http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=6920&reference=/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi%3Fsearch%3Daction%26keywords%3D6920%26searchstart%3D0%26template%3DPDGCommTemplates/FullNav/SearchResult.html

Sounds like a pretty shady gun show to me. The most expensive I have seen in person was $1100, and that place marked up everything. A quick google search will show you that 6920's are +\- $1000 guns.

ColdBlooded
12-04-2011, 12:15
I don't know where everyone buys their sub-$1k Colts, the 6920s at the gun show this weekend were $1940, not $940

Here is an example of a sub $1000 SP6920:

GT Colt Defense SP6920 (http://www.gtdist.com/ProductDetail.aspx?PartNumber=COLT-SP6920)

mvician
12-04-2011, 12:21
I don't know where everyone buys their sub-$1k Colts, the 6920s at the gun show this weekend were $1940, not $940

Gun shows are for the UNeducated masses that think they (gun shows) are the place to get deals.

liberty911
12-04-2011, 12:30
Gun shows are for the UNeducated masses that think they (gun shows) are the place to get deals.

^This!

TsunamiMike
12-04-2011, 14:20
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/75197-1.html

IS the above the Colt you are talking about?

Reswob
12-04-2011, 16:17
Gun shows are for the UNeducated masses that think they (gun shows) are the place to get deals.

Well, shows around here are hit or miss. Some things are great prices, others are ok, some is much higher than retail. Of course, all the gun stores in the area have no selection, overcharge for the stuff they do have, and charge a fortune to do transfers.

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DieselNut
12-05-2011, 00:30
Every time I go to a gun show a ban rumor gets started and prices are doubled. I tend to find enjoyment in telling sellers they're wrong about certain things.