Could this be happening? A man's nightmare made real [Archive] - Glock Talk

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ronduke
11-20-2011, 10:56
Read the story and post online how you would have handled this case, if you worked it and who you believe the actor was.

http://articles.latimes.com/print/2011/jun/26/local/la-me-accused-20110626

http://articles.latimes.com/print/2011/jun/27/local/la-me-accused-20110628

Atomic Punk
11-20-2011, 11:30
that is a very scary story.

freeride88
11-20-2011, 19:33
So glad he was able to prove his innocence beyond doubt. She should be prosecuted to the fullest extent.

Dukeboy01
11-20-2011, 20:20
I guess things work differently out in California. As horrible as her story and her injuries were, we wouldn't charge around here just based on her say- so. That's really all they ever had.

razdog76
11-20-2011, 21:07
As Dukeboy01 pointed out, there is little to go on but the victim's word.

No mention of any medical evidence to substantiate the assault with a wooden coat hanger? No physical injury to the suspect after a scuffle, not even a red mark after a short time?

From the article, the investigator didn't seem to ask about an alibi. I like to ask because it locks an offender to one story, and with any luck can be verified.

Sharky7
11-20-2011, 23:35
Yeah, we would not just charge and arrest on word alone without doing any follow up investigation. Can't really go into all the steps I would take on an open forum, but i would get some warrants and subpoenas. Also, I would try my first/preliminary interview with the suspect before arrest.

There is a law in Illinois though that victims or alledged victims of a sexual crime can not be given a lie detector. Not sure I put all too much faith in those results anyways.

merlynusn
11-21-2011, 08:58
You guys wouldn't lock him up within an hour of that assault? If I got to the hospital and I saw that victim, you can bet he'd be in jail. He lives out of state and is flying out that afternoon with his and the "victim's" son. It isn't like it's a stranger. She stated "This guy did this, he's my son's father." I'm not saying that we wouldn't do any follow up investigation, but we'd be doing it with him in jail. And who would believe that a woman would do that to herself?

How do you charge on a robbery? Same thing, it's only the victim's word. How do you charge on a domestic assault? Again, only the victim's word.

Is this one of my worst fears? Absolutely. I know how vindictive people can get and I always hate domestic warrants because I don't know how much is the victim lying about it just to get the other party in trouble.

pulaskipusher
11-21-2011, 10:49
Wow. I've said it before and I'll say it again, thank God my ex is not that crazy.

Sam Spade
11-21-2011, 12:03
How do you charge on a robbery? Same thing, it's only the victim's word. How do you charge on a domestic assault? Again, only the victim's word.

You're saying that an accusation equals probable cause. That's not so, at least not here.

Mayhem like Me
11-21-2011, 12:19
It this case plenty of probable cause existed for an arrest...
Just saying we have a victim/ eyewitness positively ID the guy, injuries consistant with the story ... an Arrest would be made, not sure if would be indicted without some other evidence.

This would be considered a Domestic Violence case and a must/shall arrest since they have a child together.

Sharky7
11-21-2011, 15:26
Some of the red flags would have popped up almost right away. The emergecy room exam showed no internal bruising or lacerations in the anus or ******. That would have popped up within the first few hours of my investigation that would have me looking from every angle. I'm betting she has a history of mental illness, especially considering the suicide threats later on in the story.

I'm never a big fan of putting out a warrant or making an arrest without at least attempting to interview the suspect. This is a biggie here too - attempted murder. Again - there's a few other things that can be done immediately that may help disprove, but not comfortable talking about in on an open forum. I already believe some of the crime shows reveal too much info. If flight is a real risk or immediate danger of another is risk though you have to make a decision quick. Probably way more information that we have access to that led to the decision. News stories are always sensationally written and not always accurate with all the details.

clancy
11-21-2011, 17:43
Wow. I've said it before and I'll say it again, thank God my ex is not that crazy.

Mine is. I hope she doesn't read about this and get any ideas.

razdog76
11-21-2011, 17:54
You guys wouldn't lock him up within an hour of that assault? If I got to the hospital and I saw that victim, you can bet he'd be in jail. He lives out of state and is flying out that afternoon with his and the "victim's" son. It isn't like it's a stranger. She stated "This guy did this, he's my son's father." I'm not saying that we wouldn't do any follow up investigation, but we'd be doing it with him in jail. And who would believe that a woman would do that to herself?

How do you charge on a robbery? Same thing, it's only the victim's word. How do you charge on a domestic assault? Again, only the victim's word.

Is this one of my worst fears? Absolutely. I know how vindictive people can get and I always hate domestic warrants because I don't know how much is the victim lying about it just to get the other party in trouble.

Immediately, I can think of four things I would be looking at before trying to make a field arrest, and the Prosecutor's Office would NEVER give a warrant on the sole basis of what the "victim" says.

If that was the only thing they had, and for some miraculous reason they did want to do something with the case, it would be presented before the Grand Jury first. That way if it is no billed then they wash their hands off it until some other evidence is obtained. If an indictment was returned, then we go serve it.

blastfact
11-21-2011, 20:36
My x-wife was almost as crazy. While I was never jailed over her lies. I spent years in a living hell. And in the long run she ruined our daughter. She taught our daughter to lie, cheat and use the system. In the end the x died of heat stroke. Thousands of dollars wasted in the court system and our daughter is now a confused messed up mess.

I have no respect for the system nor the minions.

Newcop761
11-21-2011, 21:26
Minions. That's classy, a full notch up from gestapo. :upeyes:

m2hmghb
11-21-2011, 21:36
Minions. That's classy, a full notch up from gestapo. :upeyes:

Ehh well it's coming from a guy who admits he failed as a parent. You just have to take things in perspective.

Cochese
11-21-2011, 22:32
Ehh well it's coming from a guy who admits he failed as a parent. You just have to take things in perspective.

Oh snap!!!

EMTCOP
11-22-2011, 00:21
Ehh well it's coming from a guy who admits he failed as a parent. You just have to take things in perspective.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Pepper45
11-22-2011, 04:58
Ehh well it's coming from a guy who admits he failed as a parent. You just have to take things in perspective.
You owe me a keyboard. I don't think Dr.Pepper helps their function in the long run.

A6Gator
11-22-2011, 08:32
It this case plenty of probable cause existed for an arrest...
This would be considered a Domestic Violence case and a must/shall arrest since they have a child together.

Procedurally handled correctly, but West is one sick puppy...:wow:

Dragoon44
11-22-2011, 09:31
You guys wouldn't lock him up within an hour of that assault? If I got to the hospital and I saw that victim, you can bet he'd be in jail. He lives out of state and is flying out that afternoon with his and the "victim's" son. It isn't like it's a stranger. She stated "This guy did this, he's my son's father." I'm not saying that we wouldn't do any follow up investigation, but we'd be doing it with him in jail. And who would believe that a woman would do that to herself?

How do you charge on a robbery? Same thing, it's only the victim's word. How do you charge on a domestic assault? Again, only the victim's word.

Is this one of my worst fears? Absolutely. I know how vindictive people can get and I always hate domestic warrants because I don't know how much is the victim lying about it just to get the other party in trouble.

It this case plenty of probable cause existed for an arrest...
Just saying we have a victim/ eyewitness positively ID the guy, injuries consistant with the story ... an Arrest would be made, not sure if would be indicted without some other evidence.

This would be considered a Domestic Violence case and a must/shall arrest since they have a child together.

+1 this is not a run of the mill case. it is a case with someone accused of a serious violent felony who is planning on leaving the State WITH a child in a matter of hours. And don't overlook the past history of violence from the suspect towards the victim.

I would have arrested him and then continued with the investigation, if the investigation revealed he could not have done the crime then I would go directly to the State Attorney and present my findings.

Mayhem like Me
11-22-2011, 09:47
+1 this is not a run of the mill case. it is a case with someone accused of a serious violent felony who is planning on leaving the State WITH a child in a matter of hours. And don't overlook the past history of violence from the suspect towards the victim.

I would have arrested him and then continued with the investigation, if the investigation revealed he could not have done the crime then I would go directly to the State Attorney and present my findings.

I had a case very similar to this, remember rape kits don't come back right away, after my labs came back and crime scene information that went against the victim, like:

She saw him run out the back door and called 911 never moving till officers came to the house..
the back patio went out onto a flat backyard that had sugar sand surrounding the patio with no grass for a distance of 20 plus feet surrounding it.

We had just had a rain so no prints were evident in the sand except for one pair, I had suspected they were police boots but all denied it so I had casts made of the tracks, and pictures of all officers and firefighters shoe soles..

Found our match on a FF that went outside to spit and look around..

When the victim was confronted she went grape**** and ran from the interview, She was arrested (false report) and later Baker acted,, The SA office said they would not prosecute her she was a victim.. whatever

The guy she accused was a real winner as well he was picked up on unrelated charges for questioning and search incident to arrest had felony drugs so his probation was violated anyway...

Lawyer tried to get it supressed but since he had a valid warrant for suspended DL the Judge did not see it as fruit of the poisonous tree.

A happy ending ...kinda

Cochese
11-22-2011, 10:15
I would have held him, pending charges based on the victim statement, and pending further investigation.

Well, as a patrol cop, I would have responded to the hospital 20 minutes away... sat around for two hours waiting for the SANE exam to conclude, bagged her clothes, took a basic statement and called a detective out. :supergrin:

Cochese
11-22-2011, 10:16
Good on him for fighting it. I hope she gets a karma assault for this.

billkill
11-22-2011, 11:08
My x-wife was almost as crazy. While I was never jailed over her lies. I spent years in a living hell. And in the long run she ruined our daughter. She taught our daughter to lie, cheat and use the system. In the end the x died of heat stroke. Thousands of dollars wasted in the court system and our daughter is now a confused messed up mess.

I have no respect for the system nor the minions.

Minions. That's classy, a full notch up from gestapo. :upeyes:

Ehh well it's coming from a guy who admits he failed as a parent. You just have to take things in perspective.

Oh snap!!!

You owe me a keyboard. I don't think Dr.Pepper helps their function in the long run.

This is CopTalk, blastfact...ya might want to wear a cup :wavey:

Cochese
11-22-2011, 11:12
This is CopTalk, blastfact...ya might want to wear a cup :wavey:

This.

Or not be a *********. :whistling:

merlynusn
11-22-2011, 11:33
Immediately, I can think of four things I would be looking at before trying to make a field arrest, and the Prosecutor's Office would NEVER give a warrant on the sole basis of what the "victim" says.

If that was the only thing they had, and for some miraculous reason they did want to do something with the case, it would be presented before the Grand Jury first. That way if it is no billed then they wash their hands off it until some other evidence is obtained. If an indictment was returned, then we go serve it.

You have it. You have the residence/crime scene, you have the physical evidence of an assault on the "victim", the victim's statement and identification, you have the domestic angle, the fact the "suspect" is taking their child out of state that afternoon. You have more than enough probable cause to arrest.

Again, the investigation would not stop there, but you have to make that arrest. Can you imagine not making that arrest and he was actually guilty of it? They probably had him in custody before the SANE nurse was even done doing their examination.

Here, we can't hold people on "suspicion" of whatever. If we have PC, we arrest. If we don't, we don't. So once we have the PC, we make the arrest and try to interview him. What if he says nope? You still have the PC to arrest, even without his statement. Do you know any suspect who immediately tells you the truth anyway?

It sounds like the police did the right thing. When the evidence started evaporating and they found all the exculpatory evidence, the detective went to the DA and told him it didn't make any sense. At that point, it's all on the DA's Office on whether or not to proceed.

Dragoon44
11-22-2011, 12:28
You have it. You have the residence/crime scene, you have the physical evidence of an assault on the "victim", the victim's statement and identification, you have the domestic angle, the fact the "suspect" is taking their child out of state that afternoon. You have more than enough probable cause to arrest.

Yeah and just imagine if he had been guilty and the PD had not arrested him then he is a fugitive on the run with the kid,or worse case scenario he kills the kid then offs himself.

In either case the officers and the PD would have been barbecued by the press and probably even investigated by the State or the Feds at the demand of the victims attorney and women's rights groups.

lawman800
11-22-2011, 12:41
You bet he would have ben arrested on sight. Violent assault, positive ID, out of state visitor with a flight in a few hours, motive, and (at the time) opportunity.

However, I don't think things could have progresses much differently given the circs. His lawyer and investigator earned their money. The detective was as on it a can be expected.

Just imagine, if anyone on the case on any side wasn't so diligent, he would still be in prison. I'm happy this worked out and hope West suffers karmic payback on a cosmic scale. Louis is more man than most of us, knowing what he knows and seeing her for the custody exchanges and being able to hold himself back. Don't they still have mob hitmen for hire in vegas? I kid, I kid.

SGT HATRED
11-22-2011, 13:18
That was a pretty intense story.

RetailNinja
11-22-2011, 15:44
I trust crazy bishes involved in custody disputes only slighly less than I trust frat bois with my kid sister.

razdog76
11-22-2011, 20:58
You have it. You have the residence/crime scene, you have the physical evidence of an assault on the "victim", the victim's statement and identification, you have the domestic angle, the fact the "suspect" is taking their child out of state that afternoon. You have more than enough probable cause to arrest.

Again, the investigation would not stop there, but you have to make that arrest. Can you imagine not making that arrest and he was actually guilty of it? They probably had him in custody before the SANE nurse was even done doing their examination.

Here, we can't hold people on "suspicion" of whatever. If we have PC, we arrest. If we don't, we don't. So once we have the PC, we make the arrest and try to interview him. What if he says nope? You still have the PC to arrest, even without his statement. Do you know any suspect who immediately tells you the truth anyway?

It sounds like the police did the right thing. When the evidence started evaporating and they found all the exculpatory evidence, the detective went to the DA and told him it didn't make any sense. At that point, it's all on the DA's Office on whether or not to proceed.

When I responded to your post, I boldfaced the robbery portion. How about possible video, victim cell phone calls prior to and after the event, photographing potential injuries to start with. As far as an allegation of a sexual assault, I still wouldn't be making a field arrest because the D unit would get that.

Lastly, while Ohio law would require an arrest if the principle aggressor can be identified, and there is evidence of DV, the "offender" was not present and they don't live together, so it would likely still end up going to the prosecutor.

Your prosecutors may be easier to work with, but in my area I have to do things such as interviewing four walmart cashiers for a forgery that happened weeks ago, even though it is a known suspect, and all of the transactions are on video. They still wouldn't give me a warrant, I have to wait for an indictment.

I am not saying there isn't PC, IMHO it is fairly weak since it based entirely on her reporting statement with nothing else to support it. Suspects will tell you what you want to know depending on how you ask. It is not what you do, but how you do it.

Sharky7
11-23-2011, 01:26
I think some of our views are jaded by what cities we work in as well. It's almost 50/50 some nights on the BS made up domestics vs. the real domestics for me. I very rarely deal with actual rapes...it is usually an oops event or a craigslist connection that didn't pay.

lawman800
11-23-2011, 01:29
Would you say metro areas experience that more?

Sharky7
11-23-2011, 01:40
Would you say metro areas experience that more?

I've only worked one place....so I don't have much experience outside of a metro type area. I think it's definitely true that each and every city or area has it's crime trends. In Chicago we rarely ever see meth or big time prescription pills, mainly because we have cheaper/different alternatives that are more prevalent like coke and heroin. But, you go to central Illinois Meth is a lot bigger.

College towns definitely get their trends of alcohol calls, fights, dumb drunken vandalism, cocky rich know it all kids, suicide calls, etc.

I work in an area that has a lot of hotels and area not too far from a major airport. Craigslist (now backpage) prostitution is huge around me. We get all kinds of scam, theft, rape, drugs, domestics, etc calls regarding them. About a mile or two out of my town we have open air prostitutes that walk the strip that are all local. Most of our ladies of the night are all out of staters in town for a few weeks to make a buck and then move on. We get tons of BS/attempted false reports due to this stuff. The truth always comes out, just takes a long time.

Texas357
11-25-2011, 23:04
The sentence for malicious false accusations should be double the sentence crimes they accuse people of, just to start.

Scary stuff. Wonder how many cases like this didn't get defended so well?