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4949shooter
11-21-2011, 18:41
I just sent this email to Hornady:

Hello,

Have you ever considered loading your excellent XTP bullet in 200 grain to a higher velocity? For example loading it to around 1180 feet per second like your 180 grain XTP in 10MM. I believe there is a demand for a high power 200 grain load, mostly for outdoorsmen / hunting / woods carry. You might be able to market it as a full power load while keeping the medium velocity load for shooters who don't want the extra power. Just a suggestion.

Thank you for your time and interest,

I would have suggested something hotter than 1180, but I don't think Hornady would go for it.

I don't expect much, but you can't blame a guy for trying..

_The_Shadow
11-21-2011, 18:53
It would be of interest by many who don't reload their own! I ahd just inquired about the Zombie Max in 10mm, which they didn't bother to include in this limited special. Big business is just that! It boils down to $$$...

Myself, I load my own so I know what to expect, as I test from my guns using my ammo! This is considered an investment to sustain quality ammo.

Don't get me wrong factory ammo is great, but finding ammo loaded to its potential and the guns potential sometimes leaves you searching!

4949shooter
11-22-2011, 03:45
Yes..I guess if Hornady doesn't step up their 200 grain load I will be resigned to their 180 at 1180. Not what I wanted, but I think the Winchester hollowpoints Underwood loads will be great on two legged predators, but won't penetrate enough on the large, four legged variety.

glock20hunter
11-22-2011, 05:08
Hornady is the most disappointing when it comes to factory 10mm. The 200gr XTP could be such a great cartridge. The only decent factory ammo seems to be Winchester 175gr Silvertips at 690ft/lbs. Hopefully you will get a response.

4949shooter
11-22-2011, 08:52
Well, this is the response I receved from Hornady:


I did check and we do not load a “medium velocity” load in our 10mm. our loads in all our 10’s are about all we can get at SAAMI pressures. The 200 simply cannot be pushed, safely, to the same speed as the 180.



Hornady Sales Team

Disappointing to say the least..

G29SF
11-22-2011, 10:23
Well, this is the response I receved from Hornady:


I did check and we do not load a “medium velocity” load in our 10mm. our loads in all our 10’s are about all we can get at SAAMI pressures. The 200 simply cannot be pushed, safely, to the same speed as the 180.



Hornady Sales Team

Disappointing to say the least..

I'm not sure how to take their response. They state "we do not load a 'medium velocity' load in our 10mm".

Given there is only "low", "medium" and "high", it appears they are going on record stating that they only load a "low velocity" load in 10mm! Because they sure as you-know-what don't load a "high velocity" load! LOL.

Of course we know this to be true, but having them admit it is kind of strange.

Real quick, here are Hornady's 10mm loads:

200gr XTP @ 1050 fps (489 ft/lbs)
180gr XTP @ 1180 fps (556 ft/lbs)
165gr CD @ 1225 fps (549 ft/lbs)
155gr XTP @ 155 fps (550 ft/lbs)

According to their website, those numbers are from a 5" barrel... so they suck even more than their website shows. And that is if their numbers are accurate.

Of course nobody is asking them to make "SwampFox" loads, but come on! Why the big manufacturers can't even make the original Norma loads (640 ft/lbs and up) is disappointing...

Winchester STHP's aren't real exciting either.

175gr @ 1290 fps (646 ft/lbs) but that is a 5.5" barrel. If you adjust down say 30 fps per inch of barrel, the numbers are 1263 fps (619 ft/lbs). And based on what I have read, Winchesters numbers (on this load at least) is high. So this load is down in the 550 ft/lbs range.

Kegs
11-22-2011, 10:35
Hornady = pathetic in their medium velocity loads.

That being said, they are a reloading company - therefore, if I take their 200 grainers and load them up to 1230 fps (and I have), they win because they sold me the bullets.

Only the thing is, I'm sticking to Nosler now. :-)

Taterhead
11-22-2011, 10:57
I'm not sure how to take their response. They state "we do not load a 'medium velocity' load in our 10mm".

Given there is only "low", "medium" and "high", it appears they are going on record stating that they only load a "low velocity" load in 10mm! Because they sure as you-know-what don't load a "high velocity" load! LOL.

Of course we know this to be true, but having them admit it is kind of strange.

Real quick, here are Hornady's 10mm loads:

200gr XTP @ 1050 fps (489 ft/lbs)
180gr XTP @ 1180 fps (556 ft/lbs)
165gr CD @ 1225 fps (549 ft/lbs)
155gr XTP @ 155 fps (550 ft/lbs)

According to their website, those numbers are from a 5" barrel... so they suck even more than their website shows. And that is if their numbers are accurate.

Of course nobody is asking them to make "SwampFox" loads, but come on! Why the big manufacturers can't even make the original Norma loads (640 ft/lbs and up) is disappointing...

Winchester STHP's aren't real exciting either.

175gr @ 1290 fps (646 ft/lbs) but that is a 5.5" barrel. If you adjust down say 30 fps per inch of barrel, the numbers are 1263 fps (619 ft/lbs). And based on what I have read, Winchesters numbers (on this load at least) is high. So this load is down in the 550 ft/lbs range.

175 gr Silvertips average 1148 fps from my G20. That was even at warm summer temps.

No doubt would be an ok sd load, but not super fast velocities.

Taterhead
11-22-2011, 11:01
Well, this is the response I receved from Hornady:


I did check and we do not load a “medium velocity” load in our 10mm. our loads in all our 10’s are about all we can get at SAAMI pressures. The 200 simply cannot be pushed, safely, to the same speed as the 180.



Hornady Sales Team

Disappointing to say the least..

The sales guy might be correct depending upon the types of powders that they choose to work with. However, we all know that with some basic R&D - even with canister powders -higher velocities are possible with a decent margin for safety. They have competitors that do it with their same bullet.

dryfly
11-22-2011, 11:12
Hey now....I dont have the time or money or space in my house to reload. If anyone here wants to make some $$$ and get free brass all you have to do is reload some 200gr xtp and/or 200gr nosler. I have been tossing my brass but that will stop today...PM me if interested.

G29SF
11-22-2011, 12:03
175 gr Silvertips average 1148 fps from my G20. That was even at warm summer temps.

No doubt would be an ok sd load, but not super fast velocities.


1148 fps? LOL! That is even worse than I thought. That is 512 ft/lbs.

Even Double Tap's loads are a lot better than that, even after "adjusted" for actual velocities.

G29SF
11-22-2011, 12:14
Hey now....I dont have the time or money or space in my house to reload. If anyone here wants to make some $$$ and get free brass all you have to do is reload some 200gr xtp and/or 200gr nosler. I have been tossing my brass but that will stop today...PM me if interested.

I have been thinking about getting into reloading. With the passing of Mike, I am certainly going to. It is just a matter of when.

I have no desire to try to turn that into a business, as there are too many barriers to entry in order to make it a real viable income replacement. (I could go on and on about the issues to make it a real business that can compete with everyone else out there... even if it is a small community.) However, making a little coin from a select few has always been a thought in the back of my mind. The problem is there are risks invovled with that -- even if only "safe" loads are sold -- and I am the only 10mm shooter I personally know. So far my demand would be zero!

What is keeping me from getting the equipment now is money. Don't get me wrong, I could buy it today... however due to other obligations, my wife would not see it as a wise move unless I could recoup money relatively soon. If I am the only consumer of "my" manufactured ammo, the payback is a real long time.

Lots to think about...

To add....

Seems like it would be hard to compete against Underwood. Their loadings appear to be pretty sweet and their prices are great. I just added up the materials costs (not including reloading press/equipment) for SwampFox's 200gr XTP @ 1325 recipe. It would cost $22.50 per box of 50. Not included in that total is the tax and shipping costs of buying the materials (bullets, powder, primers, brass). If not buying brass, the cost is $13.68 (plus tax/shipping). Obviously these are not bulk-buying prices. This would be the cost for the reloader and not reselling to a buddy. Underwood has some great prices.

dryfly
11-22-2011, 12:56
My legit concern would be buying reloads from someone I dont know...buying reloads from someone I met on a "gun forum". Not a wise idea in the eyes of many.
With Mike's passing I find myself with only 2 full mags of his 200gr xtp's..Lots of us are wishing we bought more now.

I just spent 95.00 including shipping on 3 boxes of BB 180gr Montanna Golds...now I am unsure I want to rely on that bullet. I am almost pretty sure that these 180grain MG's being pushed by my 10mm will be effective at most anything... "almost pretty sure" being the problem.

I guess i will be playing with the Buffalo Bore 220 HC and (I never thought I would say this) Double Tap 200 HC and DT Noslers....and maybe Underwoods 180gr jhp...

The XTP bullet was always a favorite (followed by Gold Dot)...love the xtp 300grain 50 cal sabot out of my muzzleloader. It was only recently I started shooting the XTP in 10mm...Swamp Fox XTP...Us non-reloaders were kinda spoiled with Mike I guess.

Probably wont be too long before one of the boutique ammo makers steps up and beefs up a new 10mm load...but it wont be soon enough....

G29SF
11-22-2011, 13:27
My legit concern would be buying reloads from someone I dont know...buying reloads from someone I met on a "gun forum". Not a wise idea in the eyes of many.
With Mike's passing I find myself with only 2 full mags of his 200gr xtp's..Lots of us are wishing we bought more now.

I just spent 95.00 including shipping on 3 boxes of BB 180gr Montanna Golds...now I am unsure I want to rely on that bullet. I am almost pretty sure that these 180grain MG's being pushed by my 10mm will be effective at most anything... "almost pretty sure" being the problem.

I guess i will be playing with the Buffalo Bore 220 HC and (I never thought I would say this) Double Tap 200 HC and DT Noslers....and maybe Underwoods 180gr jhp...

The XTP bullet was always a favorite (followed by Gold Dot)...love the xtp 300grain 50 cal sabot out of my muzzleloader. It was only recently I started shooting the XTP in 10mm...Swamp Fox XTP...Us non-reloaders were kinda spoiled with Mike I guess.

Probably wont be too long before one of the boutique ammo makers steps up and beefs up a new 10mm load...but it wont be soon enough....

With regards to buying reloads (or even new loads) from someone you met on the Internet... I agree 100%. I wouldn't do it. That is why I said everything I said. It just doesn't make financial sense... other than to do it for yourself (or "myself" as is the case). The liability on the loader/reloader must be huge as well.

As far as someone else stepping up and making a hot 10mm load. I just don't know. Even SwampFox had a lot of issues to deal with. His hottest loads required some upgrades (barrel, spring) and if someone blew his gun up, Mike was on the hook. The other ammo manufacturers probably laughed at Mike because of the risks he took. Man I loved his ammo!

Once you become a high-volume ammo maker (take DoubleTap for example) and have a big business at stake, making the "sweet" loads is probably just too much of a risk. McNett probably has all kinds of custom loads he shoots himself, but just wont risk his enterprise by selling to the general public. Can you imagine being a friend of his?

Testndoc
11-22-2011, 18:46
Hey Guys,

I never even got shoot any of Mike's loads, even though I had placed a $700 order. However, the LORD had other plans for Mike.

That being said, who would be willing to produce "Mike-like" 10mm ammo? I personally would be willing to bankroll or help bankroll someone that has the know how and desire. I have no desire or ability to reload myself. Perhaps a group financial effort?

God Bless.

post-apocalyptic
11-22-2011, 18:58
4949shooter, I suggest instead asking Underwood Ammo to produce and sell some 200gr rnds. I think they'd be more receptive, and you wouldn't have to beg them to load to a full-power velocity, as Underwood already "gets it" and does that with all of their 10mm.

4949shooter
11-22-2011, 19:03
4949shooter, I suggest instead asking Underwood Ammo to produce and sell some 200gr rnds. I think they'd be more receptive, and you wouldn't have to beg them to load to a full-power velocity, as Underwood already "gets it" and does that with all of their 10mm.

Good idea I will give it a try.

TreyG-20
11-22-2011, 19:39
Maybe we should all just throw in a pot, quit our jobs and get this business rolling! I wish anyway. Im so tired of my job

4949shooter
11-22-2011, 20:02
I just sent Kevin from Underwood an email.

TreyG-20
11-22-2011, 20:17
I just sent Kevin from Underwood an email.
Let us know what he says. I will do a follow up after you've heard back from him just to give him a little more thought on the subject.

4949shooter
11-22-2011, 20:18
Sounds good I will let you know.

TDC20
11-22-2011, 20:53
With regards to buying reloads (or even new loads) from someone you met on the Internet... I agree 100%. I wouldn't do it. That is why I said everything I said. It just doesn't make financial sense... other than to do it for yourself (or "myself" as is the case). The liability on the loader/reloader must be huge as well.

G29SF, I think that is the main reason why you won't find anyone willing to sell their handloads on the internet, either. Aside from possibly personal injury if something were to go wrong (no one here wants watered-down loads, so there is inherently more risk), there could be all kinds of issues with people having cracked frames or whatever, and trying to blame it on my ammo. Whether it was my ammo that caused it or not is irrelevant to the claim. I hate living in the land of lawyers, but let's face it, that's where we are today. Mike always amazed me that he was willing to supply top velocity ammo and take that risk. I just can't see how there's enough margin in loading ammo to cover the repair or replacement of a gun every now and then. Even if the ammo maker is not at fault, it would be cheaper to replace the gun than go through the cost of defending a lawsuit. That is probably why the large ammo companies don't push the limits, even though they probably have lawyers on retainer for such claims against them.

I would recommend learning the craft of hand loading to all those who truly desire to shoot high performance 10mm. It's a great learning experience and eventually will pay for itself if you shoot enough. No need to go out and buy a Dillon 650, you can make plenty of high quality ammo on a single stage press without breaking the bank.

G29SF
11-22-2011, 21:28
Hey Guys,

I never even got shoot any of Mike's loads, even though I had placed a $700 order. However, the LORD had other plans for Mike.

That being said, who would be willing to produce "Mike-like" 10mm ammo? I personally would be willing to bankroll or help bankroll someone that has the know how and desire. I have no desire or ability to reload myself. Perhaps a group financial effort?

God Bless.

I'm willing and able... just have a lot to think about. Selling custom ammo has some inherent risks. This is especially so when doing "hot" loads.

Reading about Mike and the fiasco he had to deal with due to a KB earlier this year can really give a guy an ulcer.