Slugs or 00 Shot in a Home Defense 12 Gauge? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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dooga
11-24-2011, 21:32
I always assumed that 00 shot was the home defense standard but I hear you guys when you speak in awe of the 12 gauge slug. What do you use and what do you recommend?

Reb 56
11-24-2011, 22:02
For HD I prefer the 00 Buck Shot. Slugs tend to over penetrate and may endanger other people in the house.

dooga
11-24-2011, 22:09
Slugs tend to over penetrateMakes lots of sense to me, thanks.

CAcop
11-24-2011, 22:14
In the home as far as aiming buck and slug are going to be pretty close. The slug is more likely to blow through the person you are shooting. I am tempted to go to #4 buck for inside the house. #1 buck would likely be a good compromise.

Unistat
11-24-2011, 22:28
For my Remington 870, low recoil double-aught in the mag, low recoil slugs in the side saddle.

flyboyvet
11-24-2011, 22:40
For my Mossberg 500 I use the Winchester PDX1 which is 00buck followed by a 1oz slug. Because of my apartment setup, if anyone tries to breach my door then I have no worries about over penetration, across the street is nothing but a vacant lot with lots of tree's. Every situation is different so you gotta take into consideration you particular situation. I don't have kids either so I am going for mass damage shells.

FBV

Kaybe
11-24-2011, 22:41
Some people use birdshot or No. 8 or 9 shot. Less penetration on the walls or over penetration on the bad guy. You are responsible for each shot that you shoot.

B Coyote
11-24-2011, 22:46
I keep buckshot in the tube, with a couple slugs and four more buckshot in the sidesaddle. Buckshot is the primary load, but it never hurts to have other options available.

bc

PostMortemElvis
11-24-2011, 23:29
Some people use birdshot or No. 8 or 9 shot. Less penetration on the walls or over penetration on the bad guy. You are responsible for each shot that you shoot.

Bird shot is not a very effective round to stop an attack, an armed and determined attacker with a gun in your home will likely end up pocked and you will end up dead. There is no free lunch, if it won't penetrate drywall then it likely won't stop a bad guy.

Use what you want, I'll stick to 00buck.

VinnieD
11-25-2011, 01:01
At the ranges you're dealing with in your home, buckshot is king. 9 projectiles landing in a roughly fist sized group will cause massive trauma to any attacker.

A slug by comparison makes just one massive wound. Though I don't think I've ever heard of a slug failing to stop those things are intended for 100 yard ranges, so I'd be worried that there'd be no accounting for where the thing ends up when it goes in and out of a badguy without even hesitating. That said, if you have to deal with cover, or an armored attacker, or if you have a large enough property that you might indeed be engaging at longer ranges then it could be handy to have a slug around.

If you're the truly paranoid type you could get some buck and ball or buck and slug shells and have the best of both worlds, but the overpenetration issue is still present.

PrecisionRifleman
11-25-2011, 01:05
plain jane Remington 2 3/4 9 pellet 00 Buckshot is what I use in my 870 Police for home defense. A full power slug is not something I want zipping through my entire house let alone possibly the neighbors exterior wall. My opinion for what it's worth..

schild
11-25-2011, 06:03
First two rounds in my gun are 00 Winchester, third round is Brenneke HD low recoil slug, then I alternate between 00 and slugs.

fasteddie565
11-25-2011, 06:07
Fellas,

I am sure I am not the first to post this, but here is a site that dispels the myths about firearms in a home, over penetration etc. Buck shot shows to be the most effective and as stated, slugs do over penetrate in basic sheetrock homes. Bird shot offers the potential of not killing your threat due to lack of penetration. Also of importance is the type of ammo. I recently tested a lesser expensive Rio ammo and found that it offers a wide dispersion pattern at 10 yards. The federal premium tactical low recoil 00 buck consistently offered a pattern the size of cantaloupe or smaller inside of 20 yards. I now shoot the federal. I use the Low recoil in my pump ( R 870) and the 2 3/4 Maximums with flite control wads in my M4.

FWIW. I carry slugs in the back of my side saddle (Federal Trueball).

http://www.theboxotruth.com/

Also, Magpul Dynamics just came out with a great Dynamic Shotgun instructional video. Worth the money for sure.

Here is the trailer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XCv0X6SqUg

FWIW, there is also a pretty funny out takes video from the shotgun trailer as well.

I hope this helps.

fasteddie565
11-25-2011, 06:20
First two round in my gun are 00 Winchester, third round is Brenneke HD low recoil slug, then I alternate between 00 and slugs.


I might offer that under stress, you would lose track of what type of round you are firing next. IMHO, The true art of the shotgun is being able to load the right ammo at the right time.

fasteddie565
11-25-2011, 06:39
Some people use birdshot or No. 8 or 9 shot. Less penetration on the walls or over penetration on the bad guy. You are responsible for each shot that you shoot.


You are correct. This is why you need to consider where you can and cannot shoot from when planning your home invasion / home defense plan. Where are my kids? Where are my neighbors. Even tactics as simple as laying in the prone and shooting up may offer you a shot that poses less liability.

An overarching goal in developing such a plan is to place your family and the things worth killing over behind you, and place yourself in a covered position. This position should have a clear field of fire with an adequate backstop or clear back drop (no bedrooms or windows) Things not worth killing over and multiple exits from the dwelling go in front of you. In other words, let him have the TV and leave. If he comes after your family or heirlooms, stop the threat by the most effective means.

Bluestreakfl
11-25-2011, 06:49
Federal makes a reduced recoil expanding slug, basically sort of a hollowpoint slug with a flatter front that mushrooms open, slows down much faster than a traditional slug and has a massive energy dump in its target. Below is the link for the ballistic gel tests. Quite impressive for a slug from a HD standpoint when over penetration is a concern.

http://www.brassfetcher.com/12gaugeFedTacSlug.html


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GAFinch
11-25-2011, 09:57
I live in the city, so 00 buckshot only for me. I'm not too crazy about the idea of shooting through a door on an unidentified target and I'm not going to shoot someone outside who's more than 25 yards away.

FAS1
11-25-2011, 10:13
00 Buck should do the trick.

wrenrj1
11-25-2011, 10:17
I am tempted to go to #4 buck for inside the house.


This^^^.

Practice with a few rounds of 00...

B Glover
11-25-2011, 16:49
I'm a big supporter of buckshot in the home enviroment. Federal Premium Controlled Flight 00 Buckshot (LE132 00) if you can get it. Its not reduced recoil. In most of the shotguns I've seen it shot out of it will produce one hole out to at least 15 yards. Even at 25 I can cover the pattern with one hand in most instances.

Years ago I used to have what I always called a "pawn shop load" in my HD shotgun. birdshot, then buckshot, then slugs. But after shooting several hundred rounds of both buck and slugs, and a considerable amout of professional experience my first choice is buck then slugs in a side saddle.

I'm confident that over penetration with buck shot is not a significant issue.

ArmoryDoc
11-25-2011, 17:01
I use 00 buck in an improved cylinder bore 870. In the house I want a little spread so I'm not concerned about a tight group so much. Flight control wad is ok for out of doors.

WoodenPlank
11-25-2011, 18:05
Some people use birdshot or No. 8 or 9 shot. Less penetration on the walls or over penetration on the bad guy. You are responsible for each shot that you shoot.

It also doesn't offer enough penetration to come anywhere near reliable depth for stopping a bad guy. bird shot creates massive, superficial wounds and lacks the ability to penetrate deep enough to reliably reach CNS structures. Most of the pellets from a COM hit will be stopped by the sternum and ribs, and the few that slip through will do little harm. #4 buck really is the lightest shot that will reliably reach the needed 12" of penetration in gel. #1 comes highly recommended by some folks (Mas Ayoob is a big proponent of it), as well. When I get a chance to score some #1 loads to test out, I may make the switch from 00 to #1.

I might offer that under stress, you would lose track of what type of round you are firing next. IMHO, The true art of the shotgun is being able to load the right ammo at the right time.

This, too. Keep one load in the tube, and slugs on a saddle if you need the ability to switch quickly. Mixed loads are just asking for problems. It isn't that hard to switch loads out on a shotgun in a hurry if needed.

Personally, my 590 lives with 8 rounds of reduced recoil 00 in the tube (cruiser ready) with 6 more in the Mesa sidesaddle, and 4 Super X 1oz slugs in the tubes of the SpeedFeed stock.

ArmoryDoc
11-25-2011, 18:17
Bird shot is designed for very shallow penetration in birds. It's gonna preform the same way in humans. Use the heavier loads (00) for two-legged critters.

officerjohnson
11-25-2011, 20:59
I would use regular or reduced recoil 00 buck shot. I wouldnt worry about using the federal Flight control unless I was outdoors shooting at longer distances.

Havasu
11-25-2011, 21:22
I have mine loaded with 000Buck, however I have considered loading the first round with #8 in a cut shell. Does anyone have a take on how effective that would be?

sns3guppy
11-25-2011, 21:36
At home, I keep frangible 00 buck in either a 590 or 590A1, equipped with surefire forends and a sidesaddle. Overpenetration isn't an issue, but it will do the job on soft targets and it's got no ricochet risk.

officerjohnson
11-25-2011, 21:38
I have mine loaded with 000Buck, however I have considered loading the first round with #8 in a cut shell. Does anyone have a take on how effective that would be?

A cut shell like in the Magpul Tactical shotgun video? That would behave more like a slug. If you look on the Box o' truth website, they test 12 gauge breaching loads. The breaching load contains a 400 grain plastic slug filled with powdered metal, it penetrated 11 sheets of drywall I believe. I would think that converting a birdshot shell basically into a slug would overpenetrate as much or more than 00 Buckshot.

blueberry1177
11-26-2011, 08:13
First two round in my gun are 00 Winchester, third round is Brenneke HD low recoil slug, then I alternate between 00 and slugs.

Same thing over here

K.Kiser
11-26-2011, 10:48
I won't get too emersed in this, but for the sake of your family members please don't assume that squirrel shot won't go through both sides of a wall with gusto -- because it will... Please don't think that #4 buck won't blast through a bad guy, because it will... I've put #4 buck through a hog @ 25 yards, and through a human @ 20 feet won't be a stretch at all... I respect all ya'lls decisions as responsible gun owners, but just for the curiosity of it and for the sake of other family member go have some fun and do some penetration tests at real home shooting distances... After a few bazillion rounds fired I know what kind of purposes certain loads are meant to serve but we're talking about across a room, not @ 80'-100'...

VZ1600
11-26-2011, 11:44
At home, I keep frangible 00 buck.

Which brand, if you don't mind my asking. Thanks....



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Kaybe
11-26-2011, 12:52
I was wondering if anyone was going to bring up the frangible rounds. To me, this would seem to be the best option. But, one has to determine what is best for them. Consider how your house, apartment is built, closeness of neighbors and so on. What might be best for me may not be best for someone else. The main thing is to stop the deadly action against you and your family. Not to kill, but to stop. I don't think that after a couple or even one shot of No. 8, a person will keep coming to cause harm. Maybe. Hard to say. If they die in the mean time, that is not something that we can always control. But, I am responsible for every shot that I shoot. If it stays in the bad guy, fine. If I miss or it penetrates and it gets into the neighbors house or apartment, things won't end well for me. I think "cut"shells would work really well, but how will that play out in court? Hard to say. Some prosecutor might say that these were modified by the "gun toting" home owner to purposely kill. Think it out and decide with wisdom.

Aceman
11-26-2011, 13:16
First two round in my gun are 00 Winchester, third round is Brenneke HD low recoil slug, then I alternate between 00 and slugs.

Hey - wow. That sound like a REALLY effective selection. You seem to have it ordered in a very particular way. I might have to switch to this! Can you explain the thoughts/logic/benefits of this?

WoodenPlank
11-26-2011, 13:28
I have mine loaded with 000Buck, however I have considered loading the first round with #8 in a cut shell. Does anyone have a take on how effective that would be?

Sounds like a good way to rile up an over-zealous DA after you shoot an intruder with it, personally. I'd stick with quality buckshot over a cut shell by a large margin.

schild
11-26-2011, 16:58
Hey - wow. That sound like a REALLY effective selection. You seem to have it ordered in a very particular way. I might have to switch to this! Can you explain the thoughts/logic/benefits of this?

I think I read this somewhere years ago, just my wife and I in the house so I'm not worried about over penetration.

cowboywannabe
11-26-2011, 17:34
ive got a breachersgrip on order for recoil reduction, along with low recoil 00 buck it should be pretty easy.

Kentucky Shooter
11-26-2011, 17:50
call me crazy but I have my home defense shotgun stoked with high brass #6's.

WoodenPlank
11-26-2011, 19:46
call me crazy but I have my home defense shotgun stoked with high brass #6's.

You're crazy. :wavey:

Bird shot is for birds, buck shot is for goblins, large animals, and things that go bump in the night.

Glock940
11-26-2011, 20:24
I have frangible 12ga slugs in my HD shotguns.

Kentucky Shooter
11-26-2011, 21:30
You're crazy. :wavey:

Bird shot is for birds, buck shot is for goblins, large animals, and things that go bump in the night.

maybe so, but the zombies in my neck of the woods don't want to walk into a swarm of number 6's either. Maybe the zombies in Florida have a thicker skin! :tongueout:

Seriously, my belief is that a well placed load of #6 will stop any two legged- creature that walks at encounters I will experience within my home, where the encounter will be 20 feet or less.

Louisville Glocker
11-26-2011, 21:38
Slugs, baby, slugs...

(thinking about getting some 00Buck too)

p.s. brick walls here, so no overpenetration issues. (and nobody else on same floor as gun)

slims00ls1z28
11-26-2011, 22:06
Both, at the same time.

http://www.winchester.com/Products/New-Products/Pages/pdx1-12.aspx

WoodenPlank
11-26-2011, 22:26
maybe so, but the zombies in my neck of the woods don't want to walk into a swarm of number 6's either. Maybe the zombies in Florida have a thicker skin! :tongueout:

Seriously, my belief is that a well placed load of #6 will stop any two legged- creature that walks at encounters I will experience within my home, where the encounter will be 20 feet or less.

I think you are under-estimating the thickness of skin of Kentucky goblins, personally. Even at 3 yards, #6 isn't going to penetrate deep enough to reach CNS.

#5 shot:

http://papercut.mercenariesguild.net/Wound/birdshot_5_kent_a.jpg

VinnieD
11-26-2011, 23:33
Slugs, baby, slugs...

(thinking about getting some 00Buck too)

p.s. brick walls here, so no overpenetration issues. (and nobody else on same floor as gun)

I wouldn't be so sure about brick being a 100% stop on a slug until you've tested it on some bricks. I can't say for masonry bricks but one bad aim one shooting session resulted in me shooting below my target and hitting the cinder block stand I was using at the time. The cinder blocks were utterly annihilated, and the slug kept going without a care in the world until it finally ate dirt several yards away.

MrMurphy
11-27-2011, 02:03
Kentucky, feel free to vote with your life on birdshot.

I've seen a guy hit with birdshot. Granted it was not a center mass hit in this case, but even on a peripheral hit, he was only out of the fight from surprise and being unarmed. He was still mobile.

I've seen a guy hit with slugs (2). The first did the trick because it was a contact shot and it essentially vaporized his midsection. The second shot appeared to have been reflex by the shooter (another gang member).

The only time i'd say birdshot "for sure" (within reason) would work is a contact headshot. Lot of suicides go out that way, and it does work.

If you do run a shotgun indoors, load buck and only buck. When the rounds start flying you won't be counting shots, merely reacting (as i can attest from force on force training). Some police shootings where the cop thought he fired "one round, maybe" he ended up firing the complete tube without even realizing it (six rounds).

Against common modern building materials, anything's going to sail right through. Bird, buck or slugs, but most especially slugs. And if you're loading slugs, you should have brought a rifle most likely. I'd only load slugs if i was on a farm/in the boonies.

Louisville Glocker
11-27-2011, 09:42
I wouldn't be so sure about brick being a 100% stop on a slug until you've tested it on some bricks. I can't say for masonry bricks but one bad aim one shooting session resulted in me shooting below my target and hitting the cinder block stand I was using at the time. The cinder blocks were utterly annihilated, and the slug kept going without a care in the world until it finally ate dirt several yards away.

Good point. It would be difficult for me to test, but I've got old-school double brick, which I highly suspect is a lot denser than cinder block. In any case, most of the kinetic energy will be removed from the slug, so I doubt it'd travel far or do damage if it made it through. (several yards, as you mentioned above, means it is just about "out of gas")

I know a lot of modern buildings are made with cinder block. (I see a ton of them up in Chicago). Besides being ugly (aesthetics, whatever), they've always struck me as light and airy, compared to old brick. It would be interesting to check the densities. Maybe I'll google it.

Kentucky Shooter
11-27-2011, 16:51
I think you are under-estimating the thickness of skin of Kentucky goblins, personally. Even at 3 yards, #6 isn't going to penetrate deep enough to reach CNS.

#5 shot:

http://papercut.mercenariesguild.net/Wound/birdshot_5_kent_a.jpg

Kentucky, feel free to vote with your life on birdshot.

I've seen a guy hit with birdshot. Granted it was not a center mass hit in this case, but even on a peripheral hit, he was only out of the fight from surprise and being unarmed. He was still mobile.

I've seen a guy hit with slugs (2). The first did the trick because it was a contact shot and it essentially vaporized his midsection. The second shot appeared to have been reflex by the shooter (another gang member).

The only time i'd say birdshot "for sure" (within reason) would work is a contact headshot. Lot of suicides go out that way, and it does work.

If you do run a shotgun indoors, load buck and only buck. When the rounds start flying you won't be counting shots, merely reacting (as i can attest from force on force training). Some police shootings where the cop thought he fired "one round, maybe" he ended up firing the complete tube without even realizing it (six rounds).

Against common modern building materials, anything's going to sail right through. Bird, buck or slugs, but most especially slugs. And if you're loading slugs, you should have brought a rifle most likely. I'd only load slugs if i was on a farm/in the boonies.



You guys have convinced me. I don't claim to be an expert on ballistics when it comes to the human anatomy. I have some buckshot on hand and I think I will load up my bedroom gun with it. I have the 870 express tactical with the extended magazine and will load it up with buckshot loads. I do understand that if a person did have to defend himself at 20 feet or less in his home, only a second (or less) stands between the threat and you or loved one---20 feet is not much ground to cover, so there is no time for mistakes. Thanks for the advice.

Buffering
11-27-2011, 18:31
Buck, buck, buck! It's all you need for HD.

Unless you have money to burn or just want to have fun seeing how your shotgun patterns, you don't need Federal FC. It's nice but not necessary. The bad guy will not know the difference between plated vs. unplated shot. Go to Walmart and buy the 15 round bulk pack. Sleep well knowing that there are no more effective loads for your HD situation.

Make it either 00 or #1 Buck.

Tippyman
11-27-2011, 18:37
You guys have convinced me. I don't claim to be an expert on ballistics when it comes to the human anatomy. I have some buckshot on hand and I think I will load up my bedroom gun with it. I have the 870 express tactical with the extended magazine and will load it up with buckshot loads. I do understand that if a person did have to defend himself at 20 feet or less in his home, only a second (or less) stands between the threat and you or loved one---20 feet is not much ground to cover, so there is no time for mistakes. Thanks for the advice.

Visit theboxotruth.com. For some good shotgun load recommendations.

Two_Clicks
11-27-2011, 18:38
Really depends on where you at when I was living in an apartment I kept some #4 and #6 loaded just to avoid penetration through a wall into a neighbors place...now that I'm out in the sticks my 23 sits on the nightstand and 00 is in the shotgun

K.Kiser
11-27-2011, 20:22
Interesting how "box o truth" described the #4 buck as inadequate for penetrating to the vitals... They're gonna have to explain that to quite a few dead deer and hogs --- at ranges 3x that of a typical home interior...

Aceman
11-27-2011, 20:28
I think I read this somewhere years ago, just my wife and I in the house so I'm not worried about over penetration.

OK - so you have absolutely no idea why to do that. That's good - because I think it is one of the most idiotic loads I have seen yet from the "slug/buck" alternating crowd.

I can't believe their isn't bird shot as a first round just to scare him:rofl:

Not one person I have ever asked this of has given any sensible opr defendable answer for why to load like that.

00 low recoil all the way - slugs on the stock.

Reb 56
11-27-2011, 22:05
What about a 20 ga ? The only buck shot I could find was 2 3/4 # 3 how would that work at HD range ?

sns3guppy
11-28-2011, 00:08
Which brand, if you don't mind my asking. Thanks....

I'm not sure. When I'm back in the US and have an opportunity to check, I'll have a look.

Southpaw69
11-28-2011, 00:15
I just use 00 buck. I know it will do the job if I need it too.

WoodenPlank
11-28-2011, 00:53
What about a 20 ga ? The only buck shot I could find was 2 3/4 # 3 how would that work at HD range ?

If I'm not mistaken, Mas has suggested #3 loads for 20ga shotguns on several occasions. You might wanna take a look at the GATE section of GT in the Self Defense forum. You should be able to find questions about 20ga loads pretty easily, and peruse Mas' answers.

Motor City Glocker
11-28-2011, 13:38
00 buckshot for me. I'm in an apartment, so slugs are completely out of the question.

MrMurphy
11-28-2011, 14:57
#4 buck has a 50/50 reputation..

People are neither deer nor hogs. El Paso PD apparently issued it for many years, but after several (in a row) shootings where more than one center mass hit was required (solid, legit hits, not misses or "i think i got him"), they went to OO.

I'd use #4 if it was on hand, but OO or OOO would be preferred.

As tight patterning is desired, yes, spend the money on the Flite-Control if you're worried about pattern spread. Standard buck will certainly work, and it never hurts to stock up on 50-60 rounds of the standard stuff, but having a box or two of the really good ammo on hand is never a bad idea.

My current 12ga is a pure hunting gun, the only reason i keep a box of buck around is that just in case factor. But i'd have to run through a bunch of other stuff before it ever became an option.

K.Kiser
11-28-2011, 17:51
I'd be real interested in reading the circumstance involved with California's finding, but I'm highly suspect of it... I know what I've done with it, and what I've seen it do but their telling it won't do it... Just to keep my chart straight, 27 pellets of 24 caliber each traveling @ 1300 fps isn't enough... Quite nearly getting hit with a couple dozen .22 long rifles at the same time.. I had an uncle that spent the last 30 years of his life in a wheel chair after accidentally getting hit in the chest with a single .22 long rifle from a short pistol.. It stop on his spine, so I'm gonna ignorantly assume that a couple dozen more of those at the same time wouldn't be a reliable stopper... Hmmm.

officerjohnson
11-28-2011, 19:42
I'd be real interested in reading the circumstance involved with California's finding, but I'm highly suspect of it... I know what I've done with it, and what I've seen it do but their telling it won't do it... Just to keep my chart straight, 27 pellets of 24 caliber each traveling @ 1300 fps isn't enough... Quite nearly getting hit with a couple dozen .22 long rifles at the same time.. I had an uncle that spent the last 30 years of his life in a wheel chair after accidentally getting hit in the chest with a single .22 long rifle from a short pistol.. It stop on his spine, so I'm gonna ignorantly assume that a couple dozen more of those at the same time wouldn't be a reliable stopper... Hmmm.

Im sure #4 buck would be sufficient at close range inside a house. But 00 buck will always be better at killing and stopping. When a little range is thrown into the equation then 00 buck is far better because of the heavier weight of the pellets. In Vietnam 00 buckshot was found to be a much better killer than #4 buck.

K.Kiser
11-28-2011, 20:01
OfficerJohnson, I agree fully... Been shooting and hunting my whole life and come from a gun family, but I'm only speaking in regard to home interior distances in this thread ... Huge point for some to remember is 5-10 yards..

schild
11-28-2011, 20:07
OK - so you have absolutely no idea why to do that. That's good - because I think it is one of the most idiotic loads I have seen yet from the "slug/buck" alternating crowd.

I can't believe their isn't bird shot as a first round just to scare him:rofl:

Not one person I have ever asked this of has given any sensible opr defendable answer for why to load like that.

00 low recoil all the way - slugs on the stock.

Remind me to ignore you.

Aceman
12-01-2011, 19:18
Remind me to ignore you.

I ask everyone who loads alternating buck slug why they do it, why it is a good idea, how they know what's going on next...ect.

and no body EVER gives an answer - let alone a good one.

Just sayin'...

WoodenPlank
12-01-2011, 19:50
I ask everyone who loads alternating buck slug why they do it, why it is a good idea, how they know what's going on next...ect.

and no body EVER gives an answer - let alone a good one.

Just sayin'...

This has been my experience, as well. What happens when a slug is the one in the pipe, but you need buck? What about the other way around? Nobody that uses a mixed load has ever given me solid answers on this.

IMO, keep one load in the magazine (buck) and keep your slugs somewhere you can reach them quickly for a quick change. If you use a shotgun with detachable mags, then keep a second mag somewhere handy loaded with slugs(or maybe a magazine coupler). I'm honestly not sure if it's possible to do a quick change on such a shotgun any other way.

MarkCO
12-01-2011, 21:25
What about a 20 ga ? The only buck shot I could find was 2 3/4 # 3 how would that work at HD range ?

20 guage has a much smaller selection. #3 used to be all you could find, but Federal now has a 3" #2 buck buffered load, which is a better alternative. Tends to have a pretty tight pattern. If that is your HD shotgun, that is what you should go with. Don't know why 20 guage is primarily in #3.

For HD, I prefer the buffered loads if you have an autoloader. For pump, makes no difference.

MarkCO
12-01-2011, 21:52
If you can find it, the 2 3/4" Remington Express #1 buckshot is one of the best loads out there. It is buffered, 16 pellets, high brass and is a downright bargain considering the load. My prefered load for a working shotgun.

I burn through a lot of reduced recoil slugs at matches, but for a working shotgun, I go with full power slugs. If I need a slug, I need everything I can get, I keep them on a vest ready to go.

When you do your annual, make sure the magazine tube spring is at least 12" longer than the tube.

Havasu
12-01-2011, 22:02
This has been my experience, as well. What happens when a slug is the one in the pipe, but you need buck? What about the other way around? Nobody that uses a mixed load has ever given me solid answers on this.

IMO, keep one load in the magazine (buck) and keep your slugs somewhere you can reach them quickly for a quick change. If you use a shotgun with detachable mags, then keep a second mag somewhere handy loaded with slugs(or maybe a magazine coupler). I'm honestly not sure if it's possible to do a quick change on such a shotgun any other way.

This sounds like a great testimonial for the new Kel-Tek shotgun.

WoodenPlank
12-01-2011, 22:03
This sounds like a great testimonial for the new Kel-Tek shotgun.

Yeah, that's been one of the major points of it since it was announced. Just don't mix LTL and lethal. :wow:

B Coyote
12-01-2011, 22:14
This has been my experience, as well. What happens when a slug is the one in the pipe, but you need buck? What about the other way around? Nobody that uses a mixed load has ever given me solid answers on this.

IMO, keep one load in the magazine (buck) and keep your slugs somewhere you can reach them quickly for a quick change. If you use a shotgun with detachable mags, then keep a second mag somewhere handy loaded with slugs(or maybe a magazine coupler). I'm honestly not sure if it's possible to do a quick change on such a shotgun any other way.

This is sensible advice.

bc

VZ1600
12-01-2011, 22:21
If you can find it, the 2 3/4" Remington Express #1 buckshot is one of the best loads out there. It is buffered, 16 pellets, high brass and is a downright bargain considering the load. My prefered load for a working shotgun.

I burn through a lot of reduced recoil slugs at matches, but for a working shotgun, I go with full power slugs. If I need a slug, I need everything I can get, I keep them on a vest ready to go.

When you do your annual, make sure the magazine tube spring is at least 12" longer than the tube.

Winchesters #1 buck XB121 has a shotcup, and in my shotguns gives a tighter pattern than Remington's #1 buck offering. Locally they're both the same price.


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MarkCO
12-01-2011, 22:24
Winchesters #1 buck XB121 has a shotcup, and in my shotguns gives a tighter pattern than Remington's #1 buck offering. Locally they're both the same price.

Thanks, will have to try that out.

K.Kiser
12-01-2011, 22:31
#1 is a pretty solid hitting load... I've personally never used it for no particular reason, but I have an uncle that will only use it for a hunting load... Seen over a dozen cleanly dispatched whitetails with that load, the distances were kept reasonable and we've never had to look far...

schild
12-02-2011, 06:43
I ask everyone who loads alternating buck slug why they do it, why it is a good idea, how they know what's going on next...ect.

and no body EVER gives an answer - let alone a good one.

Just sayin'...

I have a very good reason, I chose not to make public some of my darker thoughts.

B Coyote
12-02-2011, 12:41
I have a very good reason, I chose not to make public some of my darker thoughts.

I guess that's better than "If I tell you .gov policy says I have to kill you".

bc

rewster
12-02-2011, 13:48
A lot of different opinions !! It's a good thing 99.9% of us will never get to find out if their "system" works :cool:

B Coyote
12-02-2011, 22:51
A lot of different opinions !! It's a good thing 99.9% of us will never get to find out if their "system" works :cool:

Agreed.

bc

Texas357
12-02-2011, 23:55
4 Buck. Apply as necessary.

Jeff.A
12-04-2011, 12:05
Not that I completely agree with this, but it sounds like a decent idea:

First round slug, the rest 00. This way, if I know I'm in the right, or need, to shoot through a door, etc, I can. If not, or purp is already in the house, eject first round.

If purp is already in the house and so close to me that I don't have time to "think" about ejecting the slug, it's probably too late to worry about penetration vs. my family's or my life. It's like saying I won't use a gun because what if I miss my intended target(outside).

Practice makes permanent.

Dogbite
12-04-2011, 12:20
I have mine loaded with 000Buck, however I have considered loading the first round with #8 in a cut shell. Does anyone have a take on how effective that would be?

I read about a man that shot an intuder not long ago with birdshot, unsure if it was 7 1/2 or 8, but across the room it was fatal.

Averageman
12-04-2011, 12:31
I load 00, Slug, 00, Slug all the way up the tube.
You can mix and match and with the laws in Texas you may need a little variety to clear the property.

Dogbite
12-04-2011, 12:33
I like 00 buck and slugs, but in the house i actually use #4 high brass--turkey load. Im sure it would be quite effective down the hallway/across one of my rooms.

K.Kiser
12-04-2011, 19:52
I like 00 buck and slugs, but in the house i actually use #4 high brass--turkey load. Im sure it would be quite effective down the hallway/across one of my rooms.

Turkey loads ain't no joke... There's alot better places a guy would like to be than in front of a gobbler stopper @ 25'...

Aceman
12-05-2011, 21:59
I load 00, Slug, 00, Slug all the way up the tube.
You can mix and match and with the laws in Texas you may need a little variety to clear the property.

So if they are real far or real close, you are saying that half of your load is ineffective/or dangerously overpowered.

I'm not at all sure I can even understand the genius in that it is so brilliant. But I want to learn, I want to understand. Please try and explain how that really works to me. seriously...

Averageman
12-05-2011, 22:05
In Texas you can defend property, and you do not have a requirement to retreat.
So someone is in my doorway or in my shed or car, I have something for them.
I do not feel undergunned with 00, but I know I can hit at 100yds with my slugs with minute of Man accuracy.
It isn't perfect, just reliable and versitile.

dooga
12-05-2011, 22:07
I have always wondered why people don't fill their HD pistols with FMJ, JHP, FMJ, JHP, FMJ, etc...

bsg1
12-05-2011, 23:48
i wouldn't use slugs for HD, and with the Federal flite control buckshot... the effective range of buckshot is extended to far beyond what i'd need in a HD situation.

ChicagoZman
12-06-2011, 00:35
#4 Buck in the tube with 00 and slugs in the side saddle if needed.

WoodenPlank
12-06-2011, 06:17
I have always wondered why people don't fill their HD pistols with FMJ, JHP, FMJ, JHP, FMJ, etc...

Because any modern JHP design in a respectable caliber will penetrate deep enough to reach vitals AND expand. No need to use FMJ for penetration.

Slugs can be useful (in a limited respect) on a HD shotgun for penetrating hard barriers. 99% of the time, buck shot will get the job done quite quickly. That's why I have slugs on the stock, but not in the magazine. Mixing slugs and shot in a HD shotgun is just asking for trouble, IMO. Both in an actual defensive situation (having the wrong load in the chamber) and when the local DA hears about it afterward.

leadispenser
12-06-2011, 06:23
neither really. I prefer #1 or #4 in the tube with a few slugs on the side saddle just in case I have to penetrate an interior wall. However, simply racking my 870 should give an intruder enough pucker factor to send them running.

BgDnTx
12-06-2011, 09:49
I vote 00 buck because a slug, while powerful, creates one hole, a big hole true. The objective is to damage internal organs, thus creating blood loss, and inhibiting blood circulation. A slug may or may not hit a vital, while 00 buck will create maybe a 3-4 inch hole at room distances, and is more likely to hit some vitals.
Federal 00 buck such as xm127 has nine .32 caliber pellets traveling about 1325 fps - seems more logical than one .72 caliber slug.
Now if we are deer hunting ... slugs

captcurly
12-06-2011, 16:25
For me it is OO buck over the slug. You have a penetration problem with the slug and can miss a target in low light conditions. Nine pieces of lead sound better to me than one big one.

Aceman
12-06-2011, 20:31
In Texas you can defend property, and you do not have a requirement to retreat.
So someone is in my doorway or in my shed or car, I have something for them.
I do not feel undergunned with 00, but I know I can hit at 100yds with my slugs with minute of Man accuracy.
It isn't perfect, just reliable and versitile.

oh - okay. totally makes sense now. never mind. it's so obvious now that you say it that way.

WoodenPlank
12-06-2011, 20:52
neither really. I prefer #1 or #4 in the tube with a few slugs on the side saddle just in case I have to penetrate an interior wall. However, simply racking my 870 should give an intruder enough pucker factor to send them running.

As long as you aren't relying on that pucker factor to do the job.

I vote 00 buck because a slug, while powerful, creates one hole, a big hole true. The objective is to damage internal organs, thus creating blood loss, and inhibiting blood circulation. A slug may or may not hit a vital, while 00 buck will create maybe a 3-4 inch hole at room distances, and is more likely to hit some vitals.
Federal 00 buck such as xm127 has nine .32 caliber pellets traveling about 1325 fps - seems more logical than one .72 caliber slug.
Now if we are deer hunting ... slugs

Blood loss is not a reliable way to stop a threat, however. You want to destroy CNS structure, with circulatory system being secondary.

joecoastie
12-07-2011, 17:26
neither really. I prefer #1 or #4 in the tube with a few slugs on the side saddle just in case I have to penetrate an interior wall. However, simply racking my 870 should give an intruder enough pucker factor to send them running.

If I was an evil doer up to no good in someone's residence and I heard a shotgun being racked i would probably drop to the ground and shoot a bunch of rounds in the general direction of the sound.

Tippyman
12-07-2011, 17:49
If I was an evil doer up to no good in someone's residence and I heard a shotgun being racked i would probably drop to the ground and shoot a bunch of rounds in the general direction of the sound.

Keeping one in the chamber so as not to announce your presence until desired seems to be the way to go. The last thing I want to do when carefully listening to whats going on downstairs is worry about not having a round in the chamber and having to rack it.

If you really subscribe to the "pucker factor theory" you could always rack it anyway. You will lose the round in the chamber but you wouldn't have had it in the first place if the chamber was already empty.

joecoastie
12-07-2011, 18:47
Keeping one in the chamber so as not to announce your presence until desired seems to be the way to go. The last thing I want to do when carefully listening to whats going on downstairs is worry about not having a round in the chamber and having to rack it.

If you really subscribe to the "pucker factor theory" you could always rack it anyway. You will lose the round in the chamber but you wouldn't have had it in the first place if the chamber was already empty.

Pretty much my point, I always keep a round chambered in my Nova. In my opinion the whole "racking a round to scare the s*** out of them" just gives away your position.

Averageman
12-08-2011, 19:36
oh - okay. totally makes sense now. never mind. it's so obvious now that you say it that way.
I'm glad you understand now.

Buffering
12-08-2011, 20:34
Pretty much my point, I always keep a round chambered in my Nova. In my opinion the whole "racking a round to scare the s*** out of them" just gives away your position.

I wouldn't rack my 870 to scare someone. Far from it. I'm racking that gun because I sense a threat and I'm getting ready to do something about it.

If the gun makes a racking noise or doesn't is of no consequence to me. I'm getting ready because there is a potential encounter that might require deadly force and I may have to employ that force to address it.

dooga
12-08-2011, 20:35
If the gun makes a racking noise or doesn't is of no consequence to me. I'm getting ready because there is a potential encounter that might require deadly force and I may have to employ that force to address it.I believe what we're suggesting is keeping a round in the chamber, locked, loaded, but with the safety on, possibly, so you can go live, quietly, so as not to give away your position.

Buffering
12-08-2011, 21:12
I believe what we're suggesting is keeping a round in the chamber, locked, loaded, but with the safety on, possibly, so you can go live, quietly, so as not to give away your position.

**** that ****. You break into my house I'm grabbing my shotgun and racking a round.

I have my spot picked out and if you round that corner you will not leave this world in the same condition you broke into my house. I don't care whether you know I'm there or not. It's my line in the sand and only one of us will survive that encounter.

It makes no difference if you know I'm there or not. I see you in my bedroom and you and I both know that's not a place you're supposed to be. There will be a response.

MrMurphy
12-09-2011, 04:25
Ever hear of cover vs concealment?

If the guy's armed and intent on doing bad things, you just announced your position. In most houses, the majority of the house is concealment only.

GlockFish
12-10-2011, 19:17
For my Remington 870, low recoil double-aught in the mag, low recoil slugs in the side saddle.

This.

dooga
12-10-2011, 19:30
I just got two packs of these based on your recommendation. One's on the 870 Police Magnum and one's in this box:
221070

Aceman
12-10-2011, 21:24
Well, here we are; The "sneak up on them / don't give away your position / learn to shoot at them in the dark/ maintain the tactical advantage / they unload towards the sound" crowd

vs

The rack, yell get the eff out I have called the cops, and the other end of this beam of light is attached a whole lot of pain crowd.

Good luck with choosing.

I maintain, and this is my choice that:

a) Most import above all: A plan
b) Don't go hunting bad guys if NOT necessary - best plan is choke point and call the popo
c) Most bad guys are actually cheap lazy dumb@$$ guys. They'll be very glad to leave given the option of that or possibly be killed
d) sneaking up on people in the dark leads to shooting/getting shot at when not necessary, and perhaps shooting the wrong people

I do not know that I have ever really seen a report of a BG who heard a rack or saw a light and unloaded a Glock in that direction. I DO know that there are jails full of BG's who will tell you they became aware of a person in the home, were warned, heard the rack, etc... and left to steal another day.

fasteddie565
12-11-2011, 07:16
Personally, my 590 lives with 8 rounds of reduced recoil 00 in the tube (cruiser ready) with 6 more in the Mesa sidesaddle, and 4 Super X 1oz slugs in the tubes of the SpeedFeed stock.

Sounds like a nice set up. I bet its heavy though??

fasteddie565
12-11-2011, 07:18
maybe so, but the zombies in my neck of the woods don't want to walk into a swarm of number 6's either. Maybe the zombies in Florida have a thicker skin! :tongueout:

Seriously, my belief is that a well placed load of #6 will stop any two legged- creature that walks at encounters I will experience within my home, where the encounter will be 20 feet or less.

Go to the Box of truth website to see what actually happens. You will find it hard to stop a threat with #6 shot.

fasteddie565
12-11-2011, 07:24
I have mine loaded with 000Buck, however I have considered loading the first round with #8 in a cut shell. Does anyone have a take on how effective that would be?

This technique is used to make a field expedient slug. Like, I am pheasant hunting and I see a bear kinda thing. That cut shell will eventually fall apart, powder and shot will leak and more than likely cause you more issues that benefits.

Stick to the 000 or 00 buck, learn to load a slug when you need it and become proficient with your weapon.

Oh and do not rely on the sound of the slide to deter your intruder, the rule that every gun is always loaded has two meanings.......

You should also have and know how to use a light on your shotgun.

fasteddie565
12-11-2011, 07:28
Visit theboxotruth.com. For some good shotgun load recommendations.

You are undeniably, my hero! Good recommendation, thanks

fasteddie565
12-11-2011, 07:35
What about a 20 ga ? The only buck shot I could find was 2 3/4 # 3 how would that work at HD range ?

#3 buck is roughly the same size as a 25 caliber pistol round, so theoretically, each pellet does has the ability to stop a fight, barely. Shop around, I bet you can find a better box of ammo out there, you may have to order it online.

fasteddie565
12-11-2011, 07:46
Not that I completely agree with this, but it sounds like a decent idea:

First round slug, the rest 00. This way, if I know I'm in the right, or need, to shoot through a door, etc, I can. If not, or purp is already in the house, eject first round.

If purp is already in the house and so close to me that I don't have time to "think" about ejecting the slug, it's probably too late to worry about penetration vs. my family's or my life. It's like saying I won't use a gun because what if I miss my intended target(outside).

Practice makes permanent.

I still say its a bad idea. Load the gun with buck shot and keep your slugs onboard. Learn how to switch ammo under stress. Mixing ammo in hopes of the perfect tactical scenario is just not practical, as the "scenario" never works out the way we think it will.

By using the techniques sited above, you can apply a slug whenever you need one and not hope the scenario meets your ammo mix in the tube of your SG.

Some possible contingencies....

What if you need another slug?
What if the intruder is between you and a friendly on the first shot?
What if the the the first round offers a FTF?

What if, what if, what if ????? No, we can never ID all of the scenarios, so we have to control what we can control and make sure we can apply whatever ammunition we need for the situation.

Never rely on gear to overcome the need for training!

fasteddie565
12-11-2011, 07:49
i wouldn't use slugs for HD, and with the Federal flite control buckshot... the effective range of buckshot is extended to far beyond what i'd need in a HD situation.

Good ammo choice, that's what both of my shottys have. The flight control is impressive ammo.

fasteddie565
12-11-2011, 07:56
neither really. I prefer #1 or #4 in the tube with a few slugs on the side saddle just in case I have to penetrate an interior wall. However, simply racking my 870 should give an intruder enough pucker factor to send them running.

Why do you say that? because you have heard the same Internet dribble for over a decade?

I do not mean to be confrontational or rude, but I do this for a living and when I see people that take the advice from a guy on the Internet, about whose background they have no idea, it scares me. The 12 ga slide stuff, the availability of 45 GAP ammo etc, it goes on and on.

These are your loved ones and prize possessions. Do not protect them based upon advice from a guy that lives in his Mother's basement and reads guns and ammo all day.

Do some of your own research, take a class, buy a book or DVD. You will only get one attempt at this. Please do the due diligence and make sure you set yourselves up for success.

OK, sorry rant over, LD, no offense intended....

fasteddie565
12-11-2011, 08:02
Ever hear of cover vs concealment?

If the guy's armed and intent on doing bad things, you just announced your position. In most houses, the majority of the house is concealment only.

IMHO, cruiser safe or cruiser ready ( No round in chamber vs round in the chamber) is a personal preference, based upon your situation. My entire family knows how to handle a loaded shotgun and not to mess with it, Every gun in my house is loaded.

Its you decision, based upon your situation, my humble advice is to not make that decision based upon the PSYOPS rather than the effectiveness of your plan.

fasteddie565
12-11-2011, 08:05
Well, here we are; The "sneak up on them / don't give away your position / learn to shoot at them in the dark/ maintain the tactical advantage / they unload towards the sound" crowd

vs

The rack, yell get the eff out I have called the cops, and the other end of this beam of light is attached a whole lot of pain crowd.

Good luck with choosing.

I maintain, and this is my choice that:

a) Most import above all: A plan
b) Don't go hunting bad guys if NOT necessary - best plan is choke point and call the popo
c) Most bad guys are actually cheap lazy dumb@$$ guys. They'll be very glad to leave given the option of that or possibly be killed
d) sneaking up on people in the dark leads to shooting/getting shot at when not necessary, and perhaps shooting the wrong people

I do not know that I have ever really seen a report of a BG who heard a rack or saw a light and unloaded a Glock in that direction. I DO know that there are jails full of BG's who will tell you they became aware of a person in the home, were warned, heard the rack, etc... and left to steal another day.


Aceman,

I could not have said it better myself.

Only those trained to do so, should hunt the intruder in their homes. Have the ability to deter, detect and assess an intruder, Get to your safe spot, stay there, defend against the threat if necessary, call the "popo".

dooga
12-11-2011, 11:23
It seems to me that all the experts say that one should call 911 the moment an event begins so that the entire course of events is recorded by the 911 operator. Maybe it would even make sense to tape an Olympus Pearlcorder to the butt of my 870 and start recording the altercation from the beginning to the end. Solid-state Pearcorder, not tape, which might survive recoil better. 911 plus digital recording -- heck, plus HD CCTV on the property and maybe Satellite NRO video as well -- OK, maybe I went a couple steps too far. How about a GoPro HD Helmet Hero on the 870 so that the entire event can be recorded in wide-angle HD video?

Wow, there's already a gun-cam with a "Patented 8-Direction Picatinny Rail Mount" over at Tachyon (http://www.tachyoninc.com/). Cool.

joecoastie
12-11-2011, 13:13
Well, here we are; The "sneak up on them / don't give away your position / learn to shoot at them in the dark/ maintain the tactical advantage / they unload towards the sound" crowd

vs

The rack, yell get the eff out I have called the cops, and the other end of this beam of light is attached a whole lot of pain crowd.

Good luck with choosing.

I maintain, and this is my choice that:

a) Most import above all: A plan
b) Don't go hunting bad guys if NOT necessary - best plan is choke point and call the popo
c) Most bad guys are actually cheap lazy dumb@$$ guys. They'll be very glad to leave given the option of that or possibly be killed
d) sneaking up on people in the dark leads to shooting/getting shot at when not necessary, and perhaps shooting the wrong people

I do not know that I have ever really seen a report of a BG who heard a rack or saw a light and unloaded a Glock in that direction. I DO know that there are jails full of BG's who will tell you they became aware of a person in the home, were warned, heard the rack, etc... and left to steal another day.

I pretty much agree with what your saying. I'm not trying to say you need to be some kind of super stealth ninja and go and try to clear your house.
However, even if you plan on just staying in your bedroom, why give any bad guys anymore info about your position than you need to? Granted, like you pointed out I have never heard of a case where the good guy racked a round into their shotgun and the bad guy dumped a mag in the general direction, but why chance being the first case?
To each their own, but I think a lot of people count on just the sound of a pump action making the bad guy crap his pants an flee in terror, and then don't really have a game plan in case that doesn't happen.

glock2740
12-11-2011, 14:34
I keep my 870 HD shotty stoked with 7 Remington hi-velocity 00 Buck, with 6 more in a Tac-Star side saddle. :thumbsup:

dooga
12-11-2011, 14:38
Has anyone ever fitted shot and bullet proof panels in their home's walls so as to turn walls-as-concealment into walls-as-cover. There must be a market for this.

WoodenPlank
12-11-2011, 15:48
Has anyone ever fitted shot and bullet proof panels in their home's walls so as to turn walls-as-concealment into walls-as-cover. There must be a market for this.

I get the feeling this would be prohibitively expensive, even for just a single, small room. Probably the cheapest way to do it would be to line the space between the drywall panels with a layer or two of masonry bricks.

voiceofreason
12-17-2011, 16:25
If I was an evil doer up to no good in someone's residence and I heard a shotgun being racked i would probably drop to the ground and shoot a bunch of rounds in the general direction of the sound.

:rofl: That just might work.

I recommend Federal Tactical 00 buck w/ the Flite Control Wad for anyone to try.

ATK may be coming out with a #1 buck load that may prove to be better, but I'll stick with 00 buck until the #1 proves itself in real shootings.

The #1 buck makes more sense logically, but why mess with success until it proves itself?

WoodenPlank
12-17-2011, 18:35
:rofl: That just might work.

I recommend Federal Tactical 00 buck w/ the Flite Control Wad for anyone to try.

ATK may be coming out with a #1 buck load that may prove to be better, but I'll stick with 00 buck until the #1 proves itself in real shootings.

The #1 buck makes more sense logically, but why mess with success until it proves itself?

I'm pretty sure that #1 is well proven already. Considering Mas Ayoob is a proponent of #1 buck, I wouldn't hesitate to load it if I had it.

fasteddie565
12-18-2011, 11:07
Has anyone ever fitted shot and bullet proof panels in their home's walls so as to turn walls-as-concealment into walls-as-cover. There must be a market for this.

Use of equipment is no replacement for training. Your HD plan should put you in a position where you have a clear field of fire away from your loved ones. Even our clients in apartments sometimes have to aim "upwards" for a clear shot. While I understand the concept of planning for contingencies, your suggestion is possible, but expensive. Products are available in everything from compartmentalized safe rooms that will stop a 7.62 round to bulletproof paint. (Save your money). Proper training and a good HD defense plan can mitigate a lot of the risk presented by errant projectiles.

You should make these decisions based upon the likelyhood of an attack in your home, the consequence of an attack in your home and other factors in your environment that may aid or deter your ability to protect yourself.

dooga
12-18-2011, 14:44
Bulletrproof insulation foam?!!!

fasteddie565
12-18-2011, 16:45
Bulletrproof insulation foam?!!!

That would be grand wouldn't it? I have never heard of it, I have seen bullet "resistant" sheet rock, however I cannot attest to its effectiveness. Again, not worth the $ for John Q. Public IMHO.

Glock212327
12-18-2011, 17:29
00 buck

tdrake2406
12-18-2011, 21:39
I always assumed that 00 shot was the home defense standard but I hear you guys when you speak in awe of the 12 gauge slug. What do you use and what do you recommend?

i use 3 1/2" 000 buck for the first 3 rounds and the last 3 slugs. i took my 870 to the desert to shoot some trash out there and the 3 1/2' tore some stuff up along with my shoulder :therapy:

WoodenPlank
12-18-2011, 21:40
i use 3 1/2" 000 buck for the first 3 rounds and the last 3 slugs. i took my 870 to the desert to shoot some trash out there and the 3 1/2' tore some stuff up along with my shoulder :therapy:

:faint:

CDR_Glock
12-31-2011, 09:20
After shooting my newest shotgun, 3" versus 2 3/4" gives me no advantage. It is not advantageous since I cannot have a decent "Controlled Pair" with 3" as well as 2 3/4". So I'll stick with 2 3/4" ammunition. A second shot in a defensive situation is critical, especially if you're addressing multiple attackers.

The key question to ask is WHAT type of shotgun are you asking about? Semi Auto? Pump? 20 gauge, 12 Gauge? I would not go down to 410, myself.

I posed this question about 00 to Mr Ayoob. Honestly, it depends upon what platform you're using. Semiauto or Pump. Pump can use low recoil but it may be less reliable in semiautomatics. He recommends Express #1 Buckshot for Semiautos, Not reduced recoil 00. I don't know the availability of #1 buckshot in my area. No 1 Buckshot has effective penetration and less chance for over penetration.

dooga
12-31-2011, 10:21
I have an 870 Police Magnum. What is the semi-auto equivalent of the 870 pump? Short and reliable? Simple? Remington, Beretta?

dooga
12-31-2011, 10:25
If I have not already shared, this is what I ended up getting as a direct result of this thread -- thank you!
http://img.tapatalk.com/458fbfb5-3734-9c22.jpg

jolly roger
01-01-2012, 14:30
Mossberg 590A1 and Federal Low Recoil double ought buck period. Bead sight, no fanciness. Just works

Batwing
01-01-2012, 21:10
I'd keep with the buck in the tube and sidesaddle. If you really feel you need a slug, you should keep one or two in the saddle in the place of extra shells of buck. You should also practice transitioning/loading between the two types. It's not going to do you any good if you can't get the slug into the chamber while under pressure.

WoodenPlank
01-01-2012, 21:26
After shooting my newest shotgun, 3" versus 2 3/4" gives me no advantage. It is not advantageous since I cannot have a decent "Controlled Pair" with 3" as well as 2 3/4". So I'll stick with 2 3/4" ammunition. A second shot in a defensive situation is critical, especially if you're addressing multiple attackers.

The key question to ask is WHAT type of shotgun are you asking about? Semi Auto? Pump? 20 gauge, 12 Gauge? I would not go down to 410, myself.

I posed this question about 00 to Mr Ayoob. Honestly, it depends upon what platform you're using. Semiauto or Pump. Pump can use low recoil but it may be less reliable in semiautomatics. He recommends Express #1 Buckshot for Semiautos, Not reduced recoil 00. I don't know the availability of #1 buckshot in my area. No 1 Buckshot has effective penetration and less chance for over penetration.

#1 is harder to come by, but is a little easier to locate online. I recently asked Mas if he knew of a reliable source for it, and he shared a link. However, I can not locate it at this time. If you look back through GATE, you'll find a thread I posted with a title asking about #1 buck. The link is in that thread.

stroker
01-07-2012, 19:33
00 Buck should do the trick.

It did it's purpose for me on December 19 1995 in Waller,Texas

dsa1115
01-07-2012, 19:48
I use #2's. I wouldn't suggest that 00 isn't a great choice, but inside of 20 feet, I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of either.

Lugi
01-07-2012, 22:49
Mossberg 590A1 and Federal Low Recoil double ought buck period. Bead sight, no fanciness. Just works

Well damn man.............post up a picture of that bad boy!

Am gonna get a 590A1 #51663 :supergrin:

Hour13
01-07-2012, 23:30
Buck, buck, buck! It's all you need for HD.

Unless you have money to burn or just want to have fun seeing how your shotgun patterns, you don't need Federal FC. It's nice but not necessary. The bad guy will not know the difference between plated vs. unplated shot. Go to Walmart and buy the 15 round bulk pack. Sleep well knowing that there are no more effective loads for your HD situation.

Make it either 00 or #1 Buck.

+10 ^^^

About $10 per 15 shells, Win unplated 00 buck. All I ever load in my 870. It's cheap, it's easy to get ANYWHERE, it's reliable, it's deadly.

Can't really come up with a reason to blow a ton of cash trying out fancy-shmancy loads.

It's...

a...

shotgun.

Point, shoot. Rinse & repeat as needed.
:whistling: