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Stevekozak
11-26-2011, 08:19
Had my first LEO encounter while carrying yesterday. Went well. I was pulling onto the bypass when I noticeda loose feedsack was blowing up out of the bed of my truck. I pulled over to the side of the road and hopped out to secure it. As I got out, a deputy sherrif pulled in behind me. I secured the sack as he got out of the car. I told him that what I was doing and he said that he had been about to pull me over anyway for having a brake light out. I told him I was unaware of the brakelight. He asked me for my license and I gave it to him along with CCW permit. He just glanced at it and asked me if I was carrying. I said "yes". He said "where". I said " behind my hip" and he said "ok, please have a sit in your vehicle while I fill out a contact card". He returned a moment later and said have a good day and get that brakelight fixed. We shook hands and drove our seperate ways. No muss, no fuss. That is the way it should be.

Brucev
11-26-2011, 08:27
Good for you and good for the officer.

69Charger
11-26-2011, 08:29
Yep. As it should be. :)
Dave

packsaddle
11-26-2011, 11:21
This can't be true.

We always follow standard protocol when dealing with CCWs:

1. confiscate weapon
2. deploy taser
3. arrest

Are you sure you weren't just dreaming?

crsuribe
11-26-2011, 11:35
Awesome. That's the way both of my encounters developed.

Even though I was completely clumsy and stupid and forgot to inform within the first minute or so in a state that requires it. Officer didn't even mention it but I felt stupid for making the mistake.

I absolutely applaud professional Policemen like these. Then again, a lot of people carry in my area and cops are all for CCW.

coachrowsey
11-26-2011, 12:28
Had I been the leo, would've worked the same way.

G33Fla
11-26-2011, 12:33
what state was this in?

Stevekozak
11-26-2011, 13:08
what state was this in?
Arkansas.

LongGoneDays
11-26-2011, 14:33
The way it should be, but not the way it always will be.

Mr.Reignman
11-26-2011, 14:38
This can't be true.

We always follow standard protocol when dealing with CCWs:

1. confiscate weapon
2. deploy taser
3. arrest

Are you sure you weren't just dreaming?

In no particular order of course :P:rofl:

alaskacop556
11-26-2011, 14:39
LEO's put their pants on the same way as anyone else.....pro-gun states generally have pro-gun police. This situation was handled well by both parties involved.

However, just remember that if you travel to a less-than-friendly gun state your going to come across not-so-gun friendly police (particulary in urban areas). Does not make it right but that may be the local culture and ALWAYS tell an LEO you are armed, even if you aren't required to...believe me it will avoid a lot of undo stress and anxiety from both of you.

bruzer
11-26-2011, 15:12
Excellent.
Mike

SCmasterblaster
11-26-2011, 15:53
That's the way it should be. :cool:

pilsbury
11-26-2011, 16:11
Good deal, that's the way it ought to be. Both parties courteous and respectful.

MikeLadner
11-26-2011, 17:31
Had my first LEO encounter while carrying yesterday. Went well. I was pulling onto the bypass when I noticeda loose feedsack was blowing up out of the bed of my truck. I pulled over to the side of the road and hopped out to secure it. As I got out, a deputy sherrif pulled in behind me. I secured the sack as he got out of the car. I told him that what I was doing and he said that he had been about to pull me over anyway for having a brake light out. I told him I was unaware of the brakelight. He asked me for my license and I gave it to him along with CCW permit. He just glanced at it and asked me if I was carrying. I said "yes". He said "where". I said " behind my hip" and he said "ok, please have a sit in your vehicle while I fill out a contact card". He returned a moment later and said have a good day and get that brakelight fixed. We shook hands and drove our seperate ways. No muss, no fuss. That is the way it should be.

And that's the way it generally goes if you get pulled over by me....

NEOH212
11-26-2011, 18:57
This can't be true.

We always follow standard protocol when dealing with CCWs:

1. confiscate weapon
2. deploy taser
3. arrest

Are you sure you weren't just dreaming?

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

NEOH212
11-26-2011, 18:58
Had my first LEO encounter while carrying yesterday. Went well. I was pulling onto the bypass when I noticeda loose feedsack was blowing up out of the bed of my truck. I pulled over to the side of the road and hopped out to secure it. As I got out, a deputy sherrif pulled in behind me. I secured the sack as he got out of the car. I told him that what I was doing and he said that he had been about to pull me over anyway for having a brake light out. I told him I was unaware of the brakelight. He asked me for my license and I gave it to him along with CCW permit. He just glanced at it and asked me if I was carrying. I said "yes". He said "where". I said " behind my hip" and he said "ok, please have a sit in your vehicle while I fill out a contact card". He returned a moment later and said have a good day and get that brakelight fixed. We shook hands and drove our seperate ways. No muss, no fuss. That is the way it should be.

Despite what many people would want us to think, this is the way it ends 99.9% of the time.

And is the way it should be. :cool:

Darkangel1846
11-27-2011, 09:00
Why did he ask if you were packen and why did he ask where? Wasn't it enough to know when you gave him the CCW permit.

Stevekozak
11-27-2011, 09:35
Why did he ask if you were packen and why did he ask where? Wasn't it enough to know when you gave him the CCW permit.
I guess he wanted to know. Maybe for his contact card. I didn't have a problem with it. He didn't ask to see it. Everything was professional as far as I was concerned.

Resqu2
11-27-2011, 12:31
I informed a Va State Trooper of my CCW during a stop once, he simply replied don't show me yours and I won't show you mine. Gotta love good ol VA.

pizza_pablo
11-27-2011, 13:02
ALWAYS tell an LEO you are armed, even if you aren't required to...believe me it will avoid a lot of undo stress and anxiety from both of you.

When asking about this, while buying my first carry gun, a Seattle LEO told me that I shouldn't inform unless I were to be removed from the vehicle. That it may just escalate things, unnecessarily. Apparently, you disagree. I have not, yet, been pulled over while carrying. Not sure which way I'll go...

Gunnut 45/454
11-27-2011, 13:12
Good deal like it has been said -the way it should go ! Plus one for that Sheriff deputy!:supergrin:

alaskacop556
11-27-2011, 14:53
When asking about this, while buying my first carry gun, a Seattle LEO told me that I shouldn't inform unless I were to be removed from the vehicle. That it may just escalate things, unnecessarily. Apparently, you disagree. I have not, yet, been pulled over while carrying. Not sure which way I'll go...

Not sure why he told you that, then again it is Seattle......

The reason I HIGHLY recommend doing that (excluding legal requirements to do so like here) is it lets most LEO's know your not a bad guy. True that during a "routine" stop an officer may not know you are carrying but should he/she request you step out and you wait to inform them you are armed will make us a lot more nervous. I have had this situation happened a few times and I could tell when they stepped out to speak they were nervous and agitated because they were armed and now were thinking "...crap, I should tell him I am armed what if he sees it..." which of course we may interpet as a red flag for "what's he hiding?". Bare in mind we are far from perfect and you may get one of those officer's who has a lack of people skills but if you tell them as soon as possible you are carrying then anything that happens after that will be on them (like the officer who tried to charge a guy with a weapons offense but it got thrown out in court and made the officer look like an overbearing jackass).

Hedo1
11-27-2011, 15:15
That's the way most of mine went (3) over the last 16 years. In fact I've had a few pleasant "gun discussions" with the police on the side of the road, usually because I've been carrying something different like a SW4506 or a Para. PA doesn't require disclosure but I do anyway. I'm a lefty and always felt self concious reaching for my wallet in my back pocket while wearing my handgun on my left hip.

The only time a got a citation was the time the officer warned me not to disclose I was carrying because it makes the patrolman in his town "edgy". I had an expired inspection sticker. Oh well. I always try to be courteous and have always got the same in return.

RussP
11-27-2011, 16:25
Why did he ask if you were packenSimple, he wanted the information. and why did he ask where?That is simple, too. He wanted the information so any movement toward that direction, that location could be dealt with appropriately.Wasn't it enough to know when you gave him the CCW permit.For some it would be enough. For others, like this one, it isn't.

wtf0ver
11-27-2011, 16:31
awesome! my home state!

Boot Stomper
11-27-2011, 16:37
...he said "ok, please have a sit in your vehicle while I fill out a contact card". He returned a moment later and said have a good day and get that brakelight fixed.


The likely reason for the "contact card" is a State racial profiling law otherwise you would have been down the road even faster. In several states it is now State law that police officers have to document race, reason for stop and other facts regarding contact with a citizen. It is the PC police, policing the real police.

JuneyBooney
11-27-2011, 16:41
This can't be true.

We always follow standard protocol when dealing with CCWs:

1. confiscate weapon
2. deploy taser
3. arrest


Are you sure you weren't just dreaming?

:rofl:and saying "Junior, what are you doing"?

DB1985
11-27-2011, 17:10
Glad to hear that!

pizza_pablo
11-27-2011, 18:36
Not sure why he told you that, then again it is Seattle......

The reason I HIGHLY recommend doing that (excluding legal requirements to do so like here) is it lets most LEO's know your not a bad guy. True that during a "routine" stop an officer may not know you are carrying but should he/she request you step out and you wait to inform them you are armed will make us a lot more nervous. I have had this situation happened a few times and I could tell when they stepped out to speak they were nervous and agitated because they were armed and now were thinking "...crap, I should tell him I am armed what if he sees it..." which of course we may interpet as a red flag for "what's he hiding?". Bare in mind we are far from perfect and you may get one of those officer's who has a lack of people skills but if you tell them as soon as possible you are carrying then anything that happens after that will be on them (like the officer who tried to charge a guy with a weapons offense but it got thrown out in court and made the officer look like an overbearing jackass).
You make good points. This is what I will do. Thanks, AC! :wavey:

kensteele
11-30-2011, 11:35
The likely reason for the "contact card" is a State racial profiling law otherwise you would have been down the road even faster. In several states it is now State law that police officers have to document race, reason for stop and other facts regarding contact with a citizen. It is the PC police, policing the real police because somehow the police were unable to police themselves.

fixed it for you.

those departments that don't practice racial profiling don't have a problem and don't have to be "ordered" by the state [law] to stop it. If you live in such a state, you WANT the police to take the extra few seconds to document the stop rather than "being on your way."

LippCJ7
11-30-2011, 19:40
In my experience its the norm to have a very professional meeting with LEO's when informed about my carrying, I hand over my CL CCW Insurance and registration at the same time, both hands then go back to the steering wheel, I drive big miles so I get pulled over my fair share probably 3 or 4 times a year typically for lights that may be out or possibly slightly speeding:supergrin:, I think the only thing that has surprised me is that my carrying always seems to strike up a conversation.

Now I decided I'm going to be a PoPo, I start in Detentions in January! I get to be the "Old" Rookie at 43!

Treat them like a Man and most likely they will treat you like a Man too

steveksux
11-30-2011, 19:49
what state was this in?REM sleep, apparently, since he wasn't disarmed, frisked, arrested, and didn't have a pound of meth planted on him... :whistling: :tongueout:

Randy

DarkEyes
12-10-2011, 02:00
Simple, he wanted the information. That is simple, too. He wanted the information so any movement toward that direction, that location could be dealt with appropriately.For some it would be enough. For others, like this one, it isn't.
I would like to see so actual stats on how many CCW holders have drawn a gun and fired it at a officer...
I only inform if the state requires it..
I don't try to use my CCW to try to get out of a ticket. If I was breaking the law it is what it is. I can take what I get.

polyman305
12-10-2011, 03:58
I only inform if the state requires it..

You mean if they ask you correct? If so man you are asking for it. "Okay sir have a nice- whoa whats that? You armed? Get out the car, show me your hands". <-- And thats one of the easier ways that can go. Now you have to go through all of that for nothing when you could have just showed your permit along with your license. Its always better to just keep things simple and cool guy. You don't want their drama and they don't want yours.
Mimic the OP's actions.

RussP
12-10-2011, 06:55
I would like to see so actual stats on how many CCW holders have drawn a gun and fired it at a officer...
I only inform if the state requires it..
I don't try to use my CCW to try to get out of a ticket. If I was breaking the law it is what it is. I can take what I get.Here's the ol' "show me some statistics..." post. Guess you're going to respond that due to the incredibly small number, members of law enforcement should not take whatever safety precautions necessary in their mind to stay alive.

Okay, here are two murders committed by permit holders.

On December 3, 2009, Bart Johnson shot and killed Pelham, Alabama, police officer Philip Davis during a routine traffic stop.

On July 13, 2008, Ashford Thompson shot Twinsburg Police Patrolman Joshua Miktarian four times in the head after he was pulled over for playing loud music.

Which permit holder will be next?

Which son, daughter, father, mother, sister, brother, uncle, or aunt wearing a badge will be murdered next?

Different cops have different ways of handling permit holders. If you don't want to find out about them personally, don't break the law to start with.

kensteele
12-10-2011, 12:00
You mean if they ask you correct? If so man you are asking for it. "Okay sir have a nice- whoa whats that? You armed? Get out the car, show me your hands". <-- And thats one of the easier ways that can go. Now you have to go through all of that for nothing when you could have just showed your permit along with your license. Its always better to just keep things simple and cool guy. You don't want their drama and they don't want yours.
Mimic the OP's actions.

Ok, let's use your made up example and apply it in real life. In MO, most every adult non-criminal citizen can legally transport a handgun in their vehicle either in the glove box or on their person, concealed or otherwise. Potentially hundreds of thousands of handguns in cars by lots of people, most of them without permits. And the hundreds of police organisations across the state know this as they conduct thousands and thousands of traffic stops. If you do not have a permit, of course you are not required to inform the officer. In MO, you are not required to inform even if you do have a permit. So how many times do you think "Okay sir have a nice- whoa whats that? You armed? Get out the car, show me your hands" happens in MO or worse? And if you were a MO police officer and you pretty much know everybody has firearms in their car, are you going to do this "Okay sir have a nice- whoa whats that? You armed? Get out the car, show me your hands" or worse everytime you think you see a firearm? See where I am going with this?

Ok, just in case you don't see where I am going with this, let's say you automatically inform right up front. Do you feel that the act of informing right away up front is guaranteed to prevent this "Okay sir have a nice- whoa whats that? You armed? Get out the car, show me your hands" or worse? Please tell me what evidence you have seen or heard leads you to believe that the response from LEO is based on whether you inform or not (rather than the law or the officer's attitude or the situation) and informing prevents this "Okay sir have a nice- whoa whats that? You armed? Get out the car, show me your hands" and not informing causes it or worse. From what I've seen and heard, that simply isn't true.

Anything can happen. You can show a permit and get a gun screwed in your ear. You can NOT show a permit and the officer might see a firearm but send you on your way. What you do is all about risk. The officer knows the law and he knows if you don't inform because you are not required to by law, that in and of itself doesn't necessarily mean "something's up." My guess is he is more inclined to treat you based on the totality of the circumstances and not simply based on "seeing a gun." I am disappointed that you feel that "seeing a gun" amounts to some sort of deviousness, the very type of thinking that most honest gun owners try really hard to refute not only in the eyes of ordinary citizens but also with LEO. To me it sounds like you support extra scrutiny and special care for those that carry a firearm and probably even more harsh treatment for those that attempt to "conceal" their firearm or do not openly discuss it or show a permit, as in it's your fault if something happens.

If a police officer wants to know if you have a firearm, he should ask. In my state, when asked, you need to respond truthfully if you have a permit. As a permit holder, sometimes I chose not to declare but other times, I declare when it is in the best interest and safety of both myself and the officer and the people around me. So it all depends on a number of factors and for me, I think that is much better than a "must declare" law that will make you into a criminal if you forget to declare, didn't think you needed to declare, couldn't declare, or the situation gets mixed up and confused and your firearm becomes an issue. If my situation gets mixed up and confused and my firearm becomes an issue, we discuss it, we sort if out, we fix it for next time. If your situation gets mixed up and confused and your firearm becomes an issue, you'll probably end up as a felon and there won't be any next time for you.

writwing
12-10-2011, 18:09
When asking about this, while buying my first carry gun, a Seattle LEO told me that I shouldn't inform unless I were to be removed from the vehicle. That it may just escalate things, unnecessarily. Apparently, you disagree. I have not, yet, been pulled over while carrying. Not sure which way I'll go...

Of course he disagrees, it makes his job easier, so to hell with legalities.

LawScholar
12-10-2011, 18:59
My dad always said that when he was an officer, he actually became more comfortable when informed about a gun, since his policy was to assume everyone was armed. He figured the tellers were the most honest of the bunch.

palladen1331
12-10-2011, 19:28
I live in bonita springs fl was stopped by a bonita springs police officer he was very courtieus , ask for my drivers license i gave him my drivers license and concealed carry permit at the same time he went back to his car and returned to mine he said ,my boss to give you this ticket your license plate expired two years ago he ask me if i was carrying and what kind and calber we discussed guns and he invited me to his gun range first time i ever got a ticket and enjoyed it.

Bodyarmorguy
12-10-2011, 20:00
I informed a Va State Trooper of my CCW during a stop once, he simply replied don't show me yours and I won't show you mine.

Great line, will file that away for future use.

Bodyarmorguy
12-10-2011, 20:04
You mean if they ask you correct? If so man you are asking for it. "Okay sir have a nice- whoa whats that? You armed? Get out the car, show me your hands". <-- And thats one of the easier ways that can go. Now you have to go through all of that for nothing when you could have just showed your permit along with your license. Its always better to just keep things simple and cool guy. You don't want their drama and they don't want yours.
Mimic the OP's actions.

Some states, Ohio for instance, requires that yoou inform the Officer "as soon as possible" that you have a permit and are carrying. To delay or not inform at all, is a seperate violation/crime all together.

Caver 60
12-10-2011, 22:35
Since the last time I was stopped was in 1978 and the last speeding ticket I had was 1967, I don't have any experience in this area. But I always read these threads for information.

My opinion is that, if stopped, I'll hand both the license and permit over along with everything else, no matter if I'm in a must inform state or not.

In MO (not a must inform state) when your MO DL is ran, the permit info will probably come up, since the numbers are both exactly the same. So he's going to know, even if you don't hand over the permit. I'd rather be the first to inform, rather than the other way around.

RussP
12-11-2011, 09:09
Ok, let's use your made up example and apply it in real life. In MO, most every adult non-criminal citizen can legally transport a handgun in their vehicle either in the glove box or on their person, concealed or otherwise. Potentially hundreds of thousands of handguns in cars by lots of people, most of them without permits. And the hundreds of police organisations across the state know this as they conduct thousands and thousands of traffic stops. If you do not have a permit, of course you are not required to inform the officer. In MO, you are not required to inform even if you do have a permit. So how many times do you think "Okay sir have a nice- whoa whats that? You armed? Get out the car, show me your hands" happens in MO or worse? And if you were a MO police officer and you pretty much know everybody has firearms in their car, are you going to do this "Okay sir have a nice- whoa whats that? You armed? Get out the car, show me your hands" or worse everytime you think you see a firearm? See where I am going with this?In Missouri in 2010 there were 1,688,720 traffic stops (http://ago.mo.gov/VehicleStops/2010/ Twenty-six agencies did not report or their reports were incomplete). You need to break down those 1.7 million stops (It is quite possible those non-reporting agencies would make 1.2 stops per day increasing the total to 1.7 million) into time of day, location, number of vehicle occupants, and other variable to determine the legitimacy of a WWT reaction ("whoa whats that?"). Do you see where I am going?Ok, just in case you don't see where I am going with this, let's say you automatically inform right up front. Do you feel that the act of informing right away up front is guaranteed to prevent this "Okay sir have a nice- whoa whats that? You armed? Get out the car, show me your hands" or worse? Please tell me what evidence you have seen or heard leads you to believe that the response from LEO is based on whether you inform or not (rather than the law or the officer's attitude or the situation) and informing prevents this "Okay sir have a nice- whoa whats that? You armed? Get out the car, show me your hands" and not informing causes it or worse. From what I've seen and heard, that simply isn't true.You know from anecdotal evidence here on Glock Talk and on other forums that it goes both ways. Relate some of the stories you've read and heard.Anything can happen. You can show a permit and get a gun screwed in your ear. You can NOT show a permit and the officer might see a firearm but send you on your way. What you do is all about risk. The officer knows the law and he knows if you don't inform because you are not required to by law, that in and of itself doesn't necessarily mean "something's up." My guess is he is more inclined to treat you based on the totality of the circumstances and not simply based on "seeing a gun."Yep...that's where I was heading.I am disappointed that you feel that "seeing a gun" amounts to some sort of deviousness, the very type of thinking that most honest gun owners try really hard to refute not only in the eyes of ordinary citizens but also with LEO. To me it sounds like you support extra scrutiny and special care for those that carry a firearm and probably even more harsh treatment for those that attempt to "conceal" their firearm or do not openly discuss it or show a permit, as in it's your fault if something happens.Let me quote you, "Anything can happen. ...he is more inclined to treat you based on the totality of the circumstances and not simply based on "seeing a gun."" If a police officer wants to know if you have a firearm, he should ask. In my state, when asked, you need to respond truthfully if you have a permit.Just a reminder for everyone to check their State's law regarding notification and responding to law enforcement. As a permit holder, sometimes I chose not to declare but other times, I declare when it is in the best interest and safety of both myself and the officer and the people around me. So it all depends on a number of factorsGive us a few examples of when you would inform.and for me, I think that is much better than a "must declare" law that will make you into a criminal if you forget to declare, didn't think you needed to declare, couldn't declare, or the situation gets mixed up and confused and your firearm becomes an issue. If my situation gets mixed up and confused and my firearm becomes an issue, we discuss it, we sort if out, we fix it for next time. If your situation gets mixed up and confused and your firearm becomes an issue, you'll probably end up as a felon and there won't be any next time for you.Here is more on kensteele's view on laws establishing penalties for not informing.So the question again is this. If you fail to notify the officer, do you think it should be a criminal offense and the carrier is subjected to being arrested?

That's what we are dealing with. I don't want to be a criminal for making a "mistake" because circumstances did not permit me to notify the officer in a timely manner or there was some confusion or mix-up. We can work on the communication and we can be on the same page but I will NOT be a criminal if I don't "do it right." So those type of laws don't stand in KS. You put in place any kind of law you want but laws that make me a criminal for committing harmless and/or benign acts are unacceptable. In my state, failure to notify is not a criminal act. It may be frowned upon or there might be better ways to handle it, but it's not felonious.

If I am driving my car out to lunch minding my own business and I have my boss in teh car with me or my mother-in-law and my tire touches the solid yellow line and a city police pulls me over, in your state you'll be having a three-way conversation about weapons and self-defense between you, the officer, and your anti-gun boss who may change his mind about your promotion or your gun-hating MIL who will tell the rest of the family that you tote a firearm around....a "loaded" firearm. Your law tells you when to have that conversation and how to have it. My law tells me the conversation is optional and private if it needs to be.

It's funny the law doesn't apply to non-permit holders in some cases, so in states like TX where you are allowed to carry a firearm in the car (permit or not), the permit holders have a law to follow and the non-permit holders are somewhat exempt. I don't understand that. It's almost as if you give up some of your right in exchange for a permit.

My 2 cents.I agree. There should be no legal punishment for not disclosing one has a permit/license.

kensteele
12-11-2011, 16:21
I have been half and half when it has come time to informing. Anything other than a traffic stop, informing is the rule. Mostly because you don't know why you are being contacted and most people don't know the drill so inform and there will be no surprises. I contacted police about my stolen property twice and both times I informed up front. Only once during a traffic stop when I was asked to step out of the car, at the point I informed. Otherwise, there have been a couple of instances where I was hit with radar while speeding (so I had a pretty good idea why I was being pulled over) and the contact lasted just a couple of minutes so I never said anything. Once, I was on my motorcycle and not carrying (on the way to work / prohibited location) so I said nothing.

It just all depends and I know the opinions are varied across the forum. Even I have been known to change my view on this over the years but regardless of my views, what I don't do? I don't try to label (or insinuate) those who care not to declare as hiding something or dishonest or disrespectful or unaware of the situation they are putting themselves or the officer in. I don't reinforce the anti-gun viewpoint that guns are bad and carrying them means you are have different rules to play by, etc. Clearly you need to follow your state law but I would hope that a state law that does not require you to inform would be respected by all sides.

I think people know their area well enough to know how to conduct themselves. In KS, state troopers can be trusted. Probably one of the finest law enforcement outfit in the midwest. I would never have a problem with presenting my permit to a trooper. Small county sheriff in BFE, KS running radar on a smaller highway looking to stop people passing thru town, have to think about that. For me, I'm glad I have a choice.