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pal2511
11-26-2011, 11:58
Arrested a gal a month ago for driving while suspended/no vehicle registration/no insurance and 18 over in school zone. Found out court clerk dismissed all of it except speed. Also I arrested same gal a year ago for dws. They dropped that to an infraction with a fine smaller than a speeding ticket.

Saw same person today driving 14 over...figured why bother.

Small town police work has its pluses this is not one of them. I could go on and on. Wtf

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Patchman
11-26-2011, 12:26
Revolving door justice discouraging? Absolutely.

So you do what you're supposed to do. Anything after that is beyond your control. So don't take it personally and don't let it bother you. (I know, easier said than done).

Look at it this way, when that person eventually kills some family because she was driving while drunk, and the news media begins to do an investigation, it'll show how the local LE arrested her many times over but it was the rest of the criminal justice system that let the community down.

Remember the old adage that you only worry about what you have control over. Anything beyond that, don't take it personally-it's only business.

Good luck.

SCSU74
11-26-2011, 12:32
meh the way i see it at least they are paying court costs and taking time out of their day to go to court

OXCOPS
11-26-2011, 12:33
I have a few questions...

- Why is the court clerk dismissing the charges? I know the REAL reason is due to the friendship, but what is the legal justification?
- Does the clerk have the authority to do it, or does the judge have to approve?
- Does the judge know about it?
- Would it be worth sending a written memo to the judge voicing your concerns?

Personally, I would continue writing legit citations to this individual, but make sure you have your ducks in a row.

CAcop
11-26-2011, 12:44
I figure in this day and age of Statistics Oriented Policing every stat helps no matter how pointless.

A few years back our managers started comparing how many FIs we wrote and said we weren't writing enough. Most of us were just writing them when we stopped and photographed similars to a crime or gang members. Apparently our managers gazed into their coffee one morning and decided we weren't soing enough. So now every hobo we tell to move along we fill out an FI card. Investigations hates it because they get all of our FIs. Instead of maybe a dozen rock solid usefull FIs they get hundreds of crap and a dozen useful ones.

As far as the revolving door of justice...don't get me started on my county's theory of juvenile justice. Their goal is not not have any kids in juvenile hall...even if that means cutting kids loose who should be in there.

trdvet
11-26-2011, 12:49
I saw this line somewhere, maybe here.

You are only responsible for the effort, not the outcome.

You can beat yourself up for things that are out of your control but you won't last very long.

4949shooter
11-26-2011, 12:56
I had one from way back. The ahole gave us a hard time on a DWI arrest. Then he said we took his money / belongings. I went to court ready to hammer this guy. It turned out he was friends with the judge, and got off with the minimums.

It stinks.

pal2511
11-26-2011, 12:59
I have a few questions...

- Why is the court clerk dismissing the charges? I know the REAL reason is due to the friendship, but what is the legal justification?
- Does the clerk have the authority to do it, or does the judge have to approve?
- Does the judge know about it?
- Would it be worth sending a written memo to the judge voicing your concerns?

Personally, I would continue writing legit citations to this individual, but make sure you have your ducks in a row.

Arestee is a business owner in town and loved to throw that around both times. Made stuff up on what I alledgedly did last time. Arestee offered clerk a discount at her store but clerk supposedly denied it

The clerk can call prosecutor and most of time he will dismiss it. Also prosecutor works as a private defense attorney during the day and city prosecutor at night

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pal2511
11-26-2011, 13:00
I had one from way back. The ahole gave us a hard time on a DWI arrest. Then he said we took his money / belongings. I went to court ready to hammer this guy. It turned out he was friends with the judge, and got off with the minimums.

It stinks.

At least he was charged. Why should honest people that take their lickings when they mess up have to pay when the turds get off on it?

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4949shooter
11-26-2011, 13:04
Why should honest people that take their lickings when they mess up have to pay when the turds get off on it?

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Yep I don't know.

Patchman
11-26-2011, 13:21
Also prosecutor works as a private defense attorney during the day and city prosecutor at night.


Although both my hands are on the keyboard, I'm about to ejaculate with this potential conflict of interest. Oooops, did I just say a George Carlin bad? :embarassed:

DaBigBR
11-26-2011, 13:25
Arestee is a business owner in town and loved to throw that around both times. Made stuff up on what I alledgedly did last time. Arestee offered clerk a discount at her store but clerk supposedly denied it

The clerk can call prosecutor and most of time he will dismiss it. Also prosecutor works as a private defense attorney during the day and city prosecutor at night

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Why not just file the appropriate state charge, then? Take the city attorney out of the equation.

pal2511
11-26-2011, 13:28
My boss is the one that decides where it goes otherwise I would

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pal2511
11-26-2011, 13:29
Although both my hands are on the keyboard, I'm about to ejaculate with this potential conflict of interest. Oooops, did I just say a George Carlin bad? :embarassed:

To top it off its in the same county!!

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CAcop
11-26-2011, 13:42
To top it off its in the same county!!

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Is he the judge too? Or just the bailiff?

pal2511
11-26-2011, 13:52
Is he the judge too? Or just the bailiff?

Nope :)

He is defense Atty for county and city prosecutor in same county

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Mayhem like Me
11-26-2011, 14:08
Arestee is a business owner in town and loved to throw that around both times. Made stuff up on what I alledgedly did last time. Arestee offered clerk a discount at her store but clerk supposedly denied it

The clerk can call prosecutor and most of time he will dismiss it. Also prosecutor works as a private defense attorney during the day and city prosecutor at night

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WTF get out now!

That has all the makings of an I team investigation....

Big House
11-26-2011, 14:14
SE Kansas by chance?

OXCOPS
11-26-2011, 14:37
Maybe a call to the state AG's office would be called for.

Dragoon44
11-26-2011, 14:38
Stuff like that is why you should cultivate friends who are reporters, they are always looking for a juicy story from an anonymous source.

There is always more than one way to skin skunks.

My motto was "I don't get mad, I get even."

GlockinNJ
11-26-2011, 15:03
This thread pisses me off. I'm not a cop, just a law abiding citizen, but I have kids. And it's people like this girl in the OP that is going to one day wrecklessly run them over with her car.

I appreciate the cops out there trying to keep the streets safe, but it's this kind of back-door legal BS that is wrecking this country. :steamed:

ateamer
11-26-2011, 15:05
As far as the revolving door of justice...don't get me started on my county's theory of juvenile justice. Their goal is not not have any kids in juvenile hall...even if that means cutting kids loose who should be in there.
It's actually a point of pride for them that they run at 40% capacity. They can easily be full, or even over capacity - we know that from experience. They see it as a big feather in their cap that they are nice to the rotten little miscreants and that they use alternatives to incarceration. Unfortunately, "alternatives to incarceration" means "a pat on the back and wink, wink, nudge, nudge to going right back out and committing more crimes" for anyone who lives in the real world.

cowboywannabe
11-26-2011, 15:39
since you have corrpution at the city court level, write all UTCs on a state charge instead of muni ord.

larry_minn
11-26-2011, 16:40
I was told yrs ago. "You catch them, they clean them"

You are doing your job. Keep arresting them and if court lets them go its NOT your fault. WHEN they harm/kill someone records will show you did your job/others did not. I wouldn't suggest it but IF some media happened to find out story.... Its not your fault.

MeefZah
11-26-2011, 17:31
Nope :)

He is defense Atty for county and city prosecutor in same county

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We had village solicitor (prosecutor, basically) like that a few years back, at another agency I worked at. He was a defense attorney in the same area as he was contracted to be a prosecutor in. We *****ed about it for years, finally someone listened, and he was given an admonishment by the bar. Nothing big, mind you, but enough of an admoishment that he is no longer the solicitor, and no one who is a defense attorney currently practicing can be.

Edit, here's the sanction: http://www.sconet.state.oh.us/rod/docs/pdf/0/2007/2007-ohio-6042.pdf

Re: the original complaint, I no longer care what happens to the d-bags in court. I give it my all, every time, and put together a solid case. If something I did wrong caused the case to get tossed, I find out what it was and I learn from my mistake. If I did nothing wrong and the case got tossed anyway, that falls in the category of "not my problem". Hell, with continuation after continuation, supression hearings over bull****, a defense motion for every freaking thing imaginable to try and find the one tiny loophole and exploit it, unreliable witnesses, and all the other bull you gotta deal with to put a case together, look at it like this: it's a god-damned miracle anyone is ever found guilty.

razdog76
11-26-2011, 17:49
Arestee is a business owner in town and loved to throw that around both times. Made stuff up on what I alledgedly did last time.

I like to note everyone the offender tells me his friends with in my report, especially if it is mutual acquaintance. I figure if they want me to know, then it must be important enough to share with everyone who wants to read the report.:supergrin:

RetailNinja
11-26-2011, 20:42
My county has two family law judges (one is the chief judge) and one that is a former defense attorney. Guess which judge pissed off the chief judge and now has to do only family law and civil cases.... yeah.

I found a long time ago that our chief judge had no clue what they are doing in criminal cases, especially relating to drugs, so I just started writing every IVC violation I could. They can go all moronic in their sentencing with drug dealers and users, but the penalties are pretty specific when it comes to traffic.

I think of it as going after Al Capone for tax evasion. They people that need to be in jail are still in jail in the long run.

Sharky7
11-27-2011, 00:50
I am pretty open about telling people up front I am not going to do anything unethical or illegal for them. I come right out and ask them why they are dropping names or trying to tell me how much of a big shot they are. I ask if they are saying it to try and get out of a ticket/arrest/etc....lot of them get embarrassed and give it up then.

If this is an ongoing issue - ask your prosecutor about it in a naive way. Ask why the ticket was dismissed. Who knows...he might get embarrassed enough to stop....or it could open up a conversation to let him know you are uncomfortable with it. If not and it is a pattern of abuse you can choose to take it further such as talking with your chief or the state's attorney.

Hack
11-27-2011, 06:33
Catch them, and your job is done. You did your job, and it doesn't reflect on you what those in the rest of the system do. Other than that, maybe talk with your chief. If it is something bad enough to warrant a state level investigation perhaps you can submit the evidence of the outcomes to them.

In my job we do similar. We catch those who continue being bad, (in a prison, so go figure). After we catch them, if we're lucky something good will come out of it.

pal2511
11-27-2011, 07:39
Like I said the chief does not care. Many officers besides me have voiced our opinion and the prosecuter is still there. Last year he dismissed three tickers for people passing a school bus illegally that was stopped with stop sign out. His reasoning was "they are not criminals" didn't even make them pay court costs!!

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pal2511
11-27-2011, 07:41
since you have corrpution at the city court level, write all UTCs on a state charge instead of muni ord.

We don't have county/state tickets unless your someone special. For some reason only one person has them..but thats a thread for another day that I WONT go into :)

razdog76
11-27-2011, 07:50
it's a god-damned miracle anyone is ever found guilty.

Can I use this as my new tag?

Dragoon44
11-27-2011, 08:02
His reasoning was "they are not criminals" didn't even make them pay court costs!!



My response would have been, "and you are not a prosecutor, you're a defense attorney masquerading as a prosecutor."

DaBigBR
11-27-2011, 09:28
...His reasoning was "they are not criminals" didn't even make them pay court costs!!

We used to have a statewide issue like that when people were cited for no insurance. If you get a ticket for no insurance, DL, or reg, you can bring proof that you had the item (ins/dl/reg) on the date of the violation and have the charge dismissed. Judges were dismissing it and assessing the court costs to the state (or city, if charged under city ordinance). The legislature found out how much money was being pissed away to pay court costs for people who didn't have POI in their car and fixed the law to where the costs "shall" be assessed to the defendant.

MeefZah
11-27-2011, 12:59
Can I use this as my new tag?

I'd be honored.

merlynusn
11-27-2011, 14:36
Honestly, this stuff happens every day. With as many tickets as I write, I rarely go to court for them. The only ones that I do are the ones with mandatory appearances. Most of the no insurance, expired registration, etc are dropped if they show proof. Suspended license requires them to come to court but I rarely see anyone found guilty of it. They keep continuing it for about a year until they can get their license back and once they do, it's dismissed.

There are only a few cases I really care about and I make sure the DA knows it. But for the most part, I don't really care. I did my part and I know that in my county it's so bad that it is a miracle anyone is ever found guilty. It's actually do the point that if someone gets an active sentence (even a day) we're shocked and amazed that it happened at all. I've only seen a dozen people given an active sentence in the last 4 years.

opelwasp
11-27-2011, 16:31
Catch them, and your job is done. You did your job, and it doesn't reflect on you what those in the rest of the system do. Other than that, maybe talk with your chief. If it is something bad enough to warrant a state level investigation perhaps you can submit the evidence of the outcomes to them.

In my job we do similar. We catch those who continue being bad, (in a prison, so go figure). After we catch them, if we're lucky something good will come out of it.

White an OP-ED article in the paper under a pseudonym. List many cases, not just yours, that this has occurred. Ask why this is happening. Heck, make a few assumptions if you want. That'll get the pot stirred up and protect you in the meantime.

groovyash
11-27-2011, 17:54
Arrested a gal a month ago for driving while suspended/no vehicle registration/no insurance and 18 over in school zone. Found out court clerk dismissed all of it except speed. Also I arrested same gal a year ago for dws. They dropped that to an infraction with a fine smaller than a speeding ticket.

Saw same person today driving 14 over...figured why bother.

Small town police work has its pluses this is not one of them. I could go on and on. Wtf

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:wow: Arrest...for suspended license? Here it's a summary citation only. "Here you go sir, here's another citation for you to not respond to like the last 40."

But it doesn't really matter anyway. My experience has always been the real satisfaction comes from towing their car. You can write a dirtbag an encyclopedia of cites and they will thank you and smile but when their ride goes on the hook they cry like babies.

glocksalot
11-27-2011, 22:23
Honestly, this stuff happens every day. With as many tickets as I write, I rarely go to court for them. The only ones that I do are the ones with mandatory appearances. Most of the no insurance, expired registration, etc are dropped if they show proof. Suspended license requires them to come to court but I rarely see anyone found guilty of it. They keep continuing it for about a year until they can get their license back and once they do, it's dismissed.

There are only a few cases I really care about and I make sure the DA knows it. But for the most part, I don't really care. I did my part and I know that in my county it's so bad that it is a miracle anyone is ever found guilty. It's actually do the point that if someone gets an active sentence (even a day) we're shocked and amazed that it happened at all. I've only seen a dozen people given an active sentence in the last 4 years.


as i read the first part of your post, I began to think how it sounded exactly like the court proceedings in my neck of the woods....then I saw that you are also located in NC; who would have thunk it?

Sharky7
11-27-2011, 22:30
We don't have county/state tickets unless your someone special. For some reason only one person has them..but thats a thread for another day that I WONT go into :)

This gets weirder and weirder.....And I thought Cook County was full of greaseballs.

MB-G26
11-29-2011, 04:19
Like I said the chief does not care. Many officers besides me have voiced our opinion and the prosecuter is still there. Last year he dismissed three tickers for people passing a school bus illegally that was stopped with stop sign out. His reasoning was "they are not criminals" didn't even make them pay court costs!!

Just, wow. Does your jurisdiction/municipality NOT have a fargin RISK MANAGEMENT Dept?? Holy Mother of Plaintiff Parents' Personal Injury cases just waiting to happen.......... :wow:

DaBigBR
11-29-2011, 11:35
We don't have county/state tickets unless your someone special. For some reason only one person has them..but thats a thread for another day that I WONT go into :)

This gets weirder and weirder.....And I thought Cook County was full of greaseballs.

Thankfully in my state the contents of the uniform citation are mandated by the state and the plaintiff (state or city) is a matter of checking the appropriate box and writing the appropriate ordinance or statute in the blank. We only have a handful of local charges for which there is not also a state equivalent.

Kadetklapp
11-29-2011, 11:53
I feel the pain of the OP. In the town I work as a reserve, we have a town court. The "judge" is elected every four years by the population and he is not in any way, shape, or form an attorney or somesuch. I stopped writing citations in his court when I learned how he makes his money (a large perecentage off of each adjudicated infraction judgement or ordinance violation), especially after he threw out a perfectly good ticket for one of his buddies and then in the same turn will burn each and every out-of-towner that the state police cites into our town court (everyone can use our court as long as the offense occured somewhere in the county). I finally made the decision to stop lining his pockets and instead give out lots of warnings, and cite into county court as often as possible. If it's an ordinance issue we don't have a choice but to file it in our town court.

pal2511
11-29-2011, 12:40
:wow: Arrest...for suspended license? Here it's a summary citation only. "Here you go sir, here's another citation for you to not respond to like the last 40."

But it doesn't really matter anyway. My experience has always been the real satisfaction comes from towing their car. You can write a dirtbag an encyclopedia of cites and they will thank you and smile but when their ride goes on the hook they cry like babies.

We rarely tow. I arrest if its the second or higher dws or if they are an ahole

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BamaTrooper
11-29-2011, 12:45
If you pop her every time, then when she has a crash and kills someone, point to all the dismissed cases and say, "I tried."

ateamer
11-29-2011, 14:10
Just, wow. Does your jurisdiction/municipality NOT have a fargin RISK MANAGEMENT Dept?? Holy Mother of Plaintiff Parents' Personal Injury cases just waiting to happen.......... :wow:
There is no liability on the government for failure to prosecute cases or failure to write tickets or make arrests.

rdrkt
11-29-2011, 15:03
:tongueout:There is no liability on the government for failure to prosecute cases or failure to write tickets or make arrests.
But the suspect can turn around and sue for false arrest because the case was found not guilty. This happens here all the time because such a large amount of cases are abated by arrest before they even leave the jail much less all the cases dropped and downgraded at the district court level due to case load.

ateamer
11-29-2011, 15:34
:tongueout:
But the suspect can turn around and sue for false arrest because the case was found not guilty. This happens here all the time because such a large amount of cases are abated by arrest before they even leave the jail much less all the cases dropped and downgraded at the district court level due to case load.
They can sue for false arrest, but it won't necessarily go anywhere. As you know, only probable cause is needed for arrest, not proof beyond a reasonable doubt. But it's fine if they sue. He'll get nothing in the end, meanwhile we are getting OT for meetings, depositions and maybe even court.

razdog76
11-29-2011, 17:45
... especially after he threw out a perfectly good ticket for one of his buddies and then in the same turn will burn each and every out-of-towner that the state police cites into our town court (everyone can use our court as long as the offense occured somewhere in the county).

Precisely why I feel Mayor's courts in Ohio towns are obsolete, ethical issues, conflicting interest(s), and the "judge" cannot be impartial.

mrsurfboard
11-29-2011, 18:47
That used to bother me when I first got on the job, now I couldn't care less. As long as the summons is written, it gets the admin off my back. Unless the guy is a complete ******, I don't care what happens in court.

MeefZah
11-29-2011, 20:36
Precisely why I feel Mayor's courts in Ohio towns are obsolete, ethical issues, conflicting interest(s), and the "judge" cannot be impartial.

I do agree, although they are rarely run by the mayor's anymore; most use a magistrate due to issues of impartiality.

Cochese
11-29-2011, 21:04
File a complaint. Now.

http://www.kscourts.org/kansas-courts/municipal-courts/default.asp

razdog76
11-29-2011, 21:32
I do agree, although they are rarely run by the mayor's anymore; most use a magistrate due to issues of impartiality.

It isn't an issue of impartiality, it is because many mayors have zero formal knowledge of the law.

GTownGlockMan
11-30-2011, 05:11
I can understand the small town positives and OT so positives, I police a town of about 5500. I've been told multiple times that you can't get caught up in the prosecution part of your arrests bc you become exactly what you are, discouraged. Worry about what you have control over and relish the fact that at the very least you severely inconvenienced the person you arrested and cost them at least a tow bill.

And as an aside, that's pretty good advice for life in general, worry about what you have control over and trust God has the rest handled.

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MeefZah
11-30-2011, 09:29
It isn't an issue of impartiality, it is because many mayors have zero formal knowledge of the law.

True, but the mayor is also the chief financial officer (basically) of a community, and to have someone rendering verdicts who stands to benefit from "guilty" verdicts through fine money and court costs, is a major conflict of interest. Basically saying that a mayor has financial incentive to find people guilty even if they are not.

Mayor's courts are viewed as jokes locally (thank god). We use a countywide municipal court system for traffic and misdemeanors, and the entire southern half of the county uses our "Southern District" Municipal Court. I really like that because I can divvy up charges between state and city code, on the same defendant and even on the same citation. If I charge a guy for an arrestable offense, I write it under state statute, so then city doesn't foot the bill. I usually can squeeze in a few non-arrestable offenses under city code, which contributes to the city coffers (hey, I'm a realist and accept that money runs the world).

DaBigBR
11-30-2011, 18:44
I feel the pain of the OP. In the town I work as a reserve, we have a town court. The "judge" is elected every four years by the population and he is not in any way, shape, or form an attorney or somesuch. I stopped writing citations in his court when I learned how he makes his money (a large perecentage off of each adjudicated infraction judgement or ordinance violation), especially after he threw out a perfectly good ticket for one of his buddies and then in the same turn will burn each and every out-of-towner that the state police cites into our town court (everyone can use our court as long as the offense occured somewhere in the county). I finally made the decision to stop lining his pockets and instead give out lots of warnings, and cite into county court as often as possible. If it's an ordinance issue we don't have a choice but to file it in our town court.

Our state did away with this kind of kangaroo court bull**** decades ago. All courts are now part of one state court system. I'm not saying that it would work in every state, but it works here. All court employees are employed by the state, there is a uniform system in place for appointing judges, etc.

AngryBassets
11-30-2011, 19:40
I feel the pain of the OP. In the town I work as a reserve, we have a town court. The "judge" is elected every four years by the population and he is not in any way, shape, or form an attorney or somesuch. I stopped writing citations in his court when I learned how he makes his money (a large perecentage off of each adjudicated infraction judgement or ordinance violation), especially after he threw out a perfectly good ticket for one of his buddies and then in the same turn will burn each and every out-of-towner that the state police cites into our town court (everyone can use our court as long as the offense occured somewhere in the county). I finally made the decision to stop lining his pockets and instead give out lots of warnings, and cite into county court as often as possible. If it's an ordinance issue we don't have a choice but to file it in our town court.

Wow.

Our state did away with this kind of kangaroo court bull**** decades ago. All courts are now part of one state court system. I'm not saying that it would work in every state, but it works here. All court employees are employed by the state, there is a uniform system in place for appointing judges, etc.

New Jersey is similar, although the employees are municipal employees, they are very closely monitored by the state Administrative Office of the Courts (AOC).

Although there's less "corruption" in the form of what you are describing, our suburban paradise's court is so overloaded that 95% of the cases are worked out by our court liaison officers (one of our cops), blown past the prosecutors in front of the judge, who will crank out 400+ people in the course of 4 hours.

It's mass-production municipal justice, but it keeps us from having to appear in court as often, lets us work out certain cases...and hammer people who need it.

MB-G26
12-01-2011, 07:04
There is no liability on the government for failure to prosecute cases or failure to write tickets or make arrests.

Maybe I'm mixing posts together in my head, but I was thinking a bit broader than that.

Assuming the scenario as:

1) Small town/city, small PD, same officer has repeatedly cited same idjit for blowing through marked/signed school zones at speeds far exceeding the typical 15 mph limit, blowing around school buses which have their swing arm 'stop signs' out and their bus lights flashing and have little kids unloading (whether in a school zone or not) and so on.

2) Small town/city CLERK repeatedly 'dismisses' all those tickets for basically the same offense(s), no court hearings, no actual adjudication of those citations.

3) Well established and documentable history of this is later admitted into evidence in wrongful injury/death civil case brought by the parents/"Next-of-Friend" of cute little bus-riding school kid who has been mowed down at an absurd rate of speed by that same person who's been repeated cited by that same officer all this time, and whose citations have repeatedly been 'dismissed' [i]by a city employee CLERK at a counter (not a judge, commissioner, etc., and well prior to any actual adjudication of the cited violations ) .

6) Evidence of the personal relationship between the city/town "clerk" and the idjit driver can be established such that it's also admitted into evidence at the personal injury trial.

5) Cute little kid having been either severely injured or killed, parents' attorney is going to look for and include as a listed defendant every possible deep-pocket entity, irrespective of any actual legal "duty" either via statute or case law.

I'd expect the defendant list to start with the idjit driver and to include the city/town as a municipality (as well as employer of the "clerk"), the "clerk" as an individual and as a city employee, the school district, probably the bus driver as an individual (albeit a school district employee acting w/in course and scope of employment), both the PD and the individual officer who wrote the same repeated citations to the idjit and knew well that the cites were continually dismissed, any insuring entities relevant, and so on. I'm sure I've forgotten somebody that can be snared up in that wide, wide net of 'maybe'.

I'd expect all kinds of ridiculous legal theories as the legal basis for the suit -- gross negligence claims ranging from those which SHOULD only apply to the idjit driver all the way down to negligent roadway design (which, depending on location, could pull the county in as well, maybe even the state); negligent selection of bus stop locations by the school district (irrespective of applicable MUTCD provisions); negligent supervision by the bus driver and so on and so on.

'All the way down to conjuring up breach of some "duty" by the officer (and thus, the PD) to have brought the idjit's repeated violations and dismissals to the attention of his superiors, chain of command, blah, blah, blah. Oh, yeah, have to sue the officer's immediate supervisors, too, based on negligent supervision, the PD on negligent training, and whatever else can be thrown in.

'Demonstrate this idjit's driving behavior and habitual endangerment of little kids disembarking school buses was well established, known, and "nobody did anything about it or the city employee counter CLERK" and as a result cute little kid is now either permanently disabled or dead.

Sure, defense attorneys for some defendants will prevail at the motion for summary judgment level........ and somebody's got to be paying for those defense attorneys. Small town city attorney probably couldn't cut it, and wouldn't be able to represent such a wide array of defendants without conflict of interests being at issue. So, somebody's got to pay the outside attorneys, and the officer might want his own as well, apart from who ever is representing the PD/city.

Some might be able to settle out early if they don't prevail on MSJ, but chances are somebody w/deep pockets is going to be left for viewing by a jury who is going to hear all about the sad, sad situation of the cute little kid/dead kid/grieving parents.

When was the last time anybody's civil personal injury case got tossed and the plaintiffs' attorney nailed under Rule 11 type "frivolous litigation/abuse of process" dismissal and sanctions? (Rhetorically speaking.)

Something that all that could be very messy, well covered by local, small-town media, toss in some local politics - and a bunch of defense lawyers get paid and the officer gets dragged through it. Anybody who doesn't make it past the MSJ stage is probably in for one heck of a fun time with the discovery process, production motions, lots of fun.

Sorry for running on, but a much wider scope was what I had in mind and plaintiffs attorneys will soooooooooo go anywhere the system and the civil court will let them.

"But, that poor, cute kid would still be alive today if only the officer would have done SOMETHING to actually enforce the law instead of just writing the same tickets to the same reckless driver who paid no attention to school buses and little kids and he KNEW the clerk was just going to keep dismising them!" :upeyes: :upeyes:

merlynusn
12-01-2011, 09:26
What is more likely to happen is the city will pay the family 10k to shut up and go away and then everyone forgets about it.

DaBigBR
12-01-2011, 10:12
Maybe I'm mixing posts together in my head, but I was thinking a bit broader than that.

(Trimmed)



The government has no duty to protect an individual unless a special relationship is created. That's not going to stop people from filing the suits, but they're not going to go anywhere. Ultimately the only competent defendant is the driver of the vehicle.

rdrkt
12-01-2011, 10:14
But it's fine if they sue. He'll get nothing in the end, meanwhile we are getting OT for meetings, depositions and maybe even court.
That is not always the case in this area. My partner and I got sued for a million each. The suit against me was eventually dropped but our council ended up settling for 3k or something like that. Ive seen similar results in other cases. While its not coming out of any of our pockets it still burns to get a judgment against you and its one more thing to explain to the next agency you try to get hired with.

MB-G26 you are definitely over thinking this. If what you are saying was really the case think of all the liability cities would face for guys arrested 40 times still out committing crimes of violence.

DaBigBR
12-01-2011, 11:13
That is not always the case in this area. My partner and I got sued for a million each. The suit against me was eventually dropped but our council ended up settling for 3k or something like that. Ive seen similar results in other cases. While its not coming out of any of our pockets it still burns to get a judgment against you and its one more thing to explain to the next agency you try to get hired with.

MB-G26 you are definitely over thinking this. If what you are saying was really the case think of all the liability cities would face for guys arrested 40 times still out committing crimes of violence.

It isn't a judgment against you if it is an out of court settlement. Even if there is liability, as long as your actions are not so severe that you lose qualified immunity, you will avoid personal liability.

MB-G26
12-01-2011, 23:13
What is more likely to happen is the city will pay the family 10k to shut up and go away and then everyone forgets about it.

That, too. :whistling:

Yup, too many years with lawyers will tend to do that - make a person over-think things.......... no doubt Boss Sam would confirm that 'over thinking it' would pretty much be my default. Yup, over-thinking, combination of my nature and too many years with lawyers and all....those....files.... :embarassed: