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RF7126
11-28-2011, 00:08
I could use some help from my fellow Indiana officers, especially reserves. I had an incident today after which I had a disagreement with a full-time officer. This officer believes that sworn reserves do not have off-duty arrest powers unless in uniform. This is not my understanding at all, and I have made (when necessary) off-duty arrests due to my security position.

However, I could not quote exactly what the law says when we had our disagreement. My understanding is that most reserves (unless otherwise specified by their department) who are fully sworn with arrest powers on-duty have the same arrest powers off-duty if necessary. One positive about my department is that paid officers and reserve officers are treated the same while on duty and are extended many of the same privileges off-duty, including the ability to work off-duty. We frequently cover the town by ourselves so we are often primary/solo officers and not just backup officers.

Does anyone know where the Indiana Code defines if there is (or is not) a difference between sworn reserve officers and sworn paid officers regarding off-duty arrest powers? I've been perusing the online version of the Code but I'm not having any luck.

COLOSHOOTR
11-28-2011, 00:31
In most cases if you are a POST (or equivalent) certified Peace Oficer the law does not differentiate between reserve and Full time. The issue may be more in line with Department policy rather then law. I know of some Departments around here with reserves that are restricted from Off duty carry (unless they have personal CCW) and can not take Off Duty Police action.

RF7126
11-28-2011, 01:10
In most cases if you are a POST (or equivalent) certified Peace Oficer the law does not differentiate between reserve and Full time. The issue may be more in line with Department policy rather then law. I know of some Departments around here with reserves that are restricted from Off duty carry (unless they have personal CCW) and can not take Off Duty Police action.

I should have specified that the full-time guy is with a neighboring department (where my security job is), so they are often unfamiliar with our policies. Part of the misunderstanding may stem from the fact that reserves do not attend the full academy. We attend a much smaller academy run through our department with academy instructors, and most of our training/experience is OJT in field training.

So I understand the perception and I won't dispute that the full-time guys have received more academy training. Despite this, we do exactly the same job, and in my department I often work completely solo, with no full-time officers on duty or at times even available through the county to assist. It's just a different way of learning it.

However, to answer you better, our certification is recognized by the state, and our department does extend us the ability to carry off-duty and when necessary (although understandably discouraged) the ability to make off-duty arrests.

The guy that I disagreed with was of the opinion that because our training experience differed I was unable to make arrests outside of my jurisdiction (false - statewide) and once I was out of uniform I was effectively no longer a police officer. I know I won't change his opinion of reserves and I won't attempt to but I would like to know what the law states in case the issue comes up again. In this case I wanted to pursue criminal charges for trespassing but he was disinclined to support me as the on-duty officer because I was a reserve who was not in uniform.

collim1
11-28-2011, 05:56
In most cases if you are a POST (or equivalent) certified Peace Oficer the law does not differentiate between reserve and Full time. The issue may be more in line with Department policy rather then law. I know of some Departments around here with reserves that are restricted from Off duty carry (unless they have personal CCW) and can not take Off Duty Police action.

I would have to agree with the above. Certified and sworn it should not matter, however your dept's policies are prolly not gonna like it.

Kadetklapp
11-28-2011, 07:41
IC 36-8-3-20
Police reserve officers
Sec. 20. (a) This section applies to counties and towns as well as cities.
(b) A unit may provide by ordinance for any number of police reserve officers.
(c) Police reserve officers shall be appointed by the same authority that appoints regular members of the department.
(d) Police reserve officers may be designated by another name

specified by ordinance.
(e) Police reserve officers may not be members of the regular police department but have all of the same police powers as regular members, except as limited by the rules of the department. Each department may adopt rules to limit the authority of police reserve officers.
(f) To the extent that money is appropriated for a purpose listed in this subsection, police reserve officers may receive any of the following:
(1) A uniform allowance.
(2) Compensation for time lost from other employment because of court appearances.
(3) Insurance for life, accident, and sickness coverage.
(4) In the case of county police reserve officers, compensation for lake patrol duties that the county sheriff assigns and approves for compensation.
(g) Police reserve officers are not eligible to participate in any pension program provided for regular members of the department.
(h) A police reserve officer may not be appointed until he has completed the training and probationary period specified by rules of the department.
(i) A police reserve officer appointed by the department after June 30, 1993, may not:
(1) make an arrest;
(2) conduct a search or a seizure of a person or property; or
(3) carry a firearm;
unless the police reserve officer successfully completes a pre-basic course under IC 5-2-1-9(f).
(j) A police reserve officer may be covered by the medical treatment and burial expense provisions of the worker's compensation law (IC 22-3-2 through IC 22-3-6) and the worker's occupational diseases law (IC 22-3-7). If compensability of the injury is an issue, the administrative procedures of IC 22-3-2 through IC 22-3-6 and IC 22-3-7 shall be used to determine the issue.
(k) A police reserve officer carrying out lake patrol duties under this chapter is immune from liability under IC 34-30-12, notwithstanding the payment of compensation to the officer.
As added by Acts 1981, P.L.309, SEC.52. Amended by P.L.30-1992, SEC.6; P.L.72-1992, SEC.3; P.L.57-1995, SEC.10; P.L.1-1998, SEC.212.

In Indiana you have the exact same authority granted by statute as that of a paid officer.

DaBigBR
11-28-2011, 09:50
In my state reserve officers have powers of arrest when acting in a law enforcement capacity. This is generally interpreted to mean no POA while "off duty", however a department sanctioned off duty gig would be good to go.

RF7126
11-28-2011, 10:29
Thanks for the replies. I agree it's not my first choice by any means. FWIW though I checked with the chief today and he agreed the department allows it if necessary.

In Indiana you have the exact same authority granted by statute as that of a paid officer.

That's exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!

acpd541
11-28-2011, 11:11
Your question,as previously stated, is more a department policy issue than anything. As a reserve, I have 24/7 "police powers" . I work paid details and have made arrests while doing so. If your department doesn't specifically state by policy/memorandum/standing order that you cannot/shall not take police action when not in uniform, then you are good to go. It's similiar the statute for Indiana Special Deputies (IC 36-8-10-10.6a).
6. (a) The sheriff may appoint as a special deputy any person who is employed by a governmental entity as defined in IC 35-41-1 or private employer, the nature of which employment necessitates that the person have the powers of a law enforcement officer. During the term of his appointment and while he is fulfilling the specific responsibilities for which the appointment is made, a special deputy has the powers, privileges, and duties of a county police officer under this chapter, subject to any written limitations and specific requirements imposed by the sheriff and signed by the special deputy.

blueberry1177
11-28-2011, 18:44
Wow that's interesting, good for Indiana I guess. Here in Mi it's Auspice of Authority only

Magicmanmb
11-30-2011, 16:28
In my state reserve officers have powers of arrest when acting in a law enforcement capacity. This is generally interpreted to mean no POA while "off duty", however a department sanctioned off duty gig would be good to go.

Same in SC but different levels 1 is fully authorized, 2 & 3 have to be with a full time officer. But we have a number of Full Time LEO's that aren't aware that the castle doctrine has been in place for nearly 10 years also. That's the last time they went to legal updates.

Landric
11-30-2011, 17:36
In North Carolina all sworn officers, full-time, part-time, or reserve must attended the same training (BLET & in-service). Reserve and part-time officers have the same off-duty authority as full-time LEOs of the same jurisdiction.

lndshark
11-30-2011, 17:37
Wow that's interesting, good for Indiana I guess. Here in Mi it's Auspice of Authority only

Yeah, and even that varies greatly from department to department, with some chiefs making up their own rules as they go. The Auspice of Authority is the written word, of course, but some think it's open to interpretation (I was denied access to an LEO forum because an admin talked to "someone" from Michigan who said I wasn't eligible :upeyes:).

The now defunct Pontiac Police Department had reserves doing just about everything on their own (much to the dismay of the remaining full-timers and with good reason). Some department heads give reserves a lot of leeway and some do not. How it would all flush out in a legal forum remains to be seen.

cjacobs
11-30-2011, 19:41
In Indiana you have the exact same authority granted by statute as that of a paid officer.

This the way it is, however, your dept MAY choose to place restrictions on your authority if they so desire, otherwise you have the same authority under the current statutes. This is also been reinforced by ILEA repeatedly.

Kadetklapp
12-01-2011, 07:40
This the way it is, however, your dept MAY choose to place restrictions on your authority if they so desire, otherwise you have the same authority under the current statutes. This is also been reinforced by ILEA repeatedly.

I'm very well aware of that. I quoted the statute.

RF7126
12-01-2011, 12:23
This is also been reinforced by ILEA repeatedly.

I guess the guys here never got the memo.:whistling:

Kadetklapp
12-01-2011, 13:42
I guess the guys here never got the memo.:whistling:

Honestly, I could care less what ILEA says. They put their hands in our kool-aid too often as it is.

Why is my posting of the statute the wrong answer?:upeyes:

RF7126
12-02-2011, 10:10
Honestly, I could care less what ILEA says. They put their hands in our kool-aid too often as it is.

Why is my posting of the statute the wrong answer?:upeyes:

If that was directed at me I was referring to the guys here in my city. :wavey:

Kadetklapp
12-02-2011, 12:18
If that was directed at me I was referring to the guys here in my city. :wavey:

Bah! More directed at whomever feels that it's necessary for ILEA to choke someone else's chicken.

RF7126
12-02-2011, 23:18
Bah! More directed at whomever feels that it's necessary for ILEA to choke someone else's chicken.

I feel like I should put the obligatory Sergeant Hulka quote in here...

I'm just kidding :supergrin:

cowboywannabe
12-03-2011, 20:45
save youself a lot of trouble, when off duty be a good witness unless somebody's life is in actual danger.

RF7126
12-03-2011, 21:40
save youself a lot of trouble, when off duty be a good witness unless somebody's life is in actual danger.

It was a different kind of situation than being strictly off-duty but I won't argue with that when off-duty.

Kadetklapp
12-05-2011, 09:36
save youself a lot of trouble, when off duty be a good witness unless somebody's life is in actual danger.

That just go for "reserves" or....?

cowboywannabe
12-05-2011, 13:30
That just go for "reserves" or....?

you decide for yourself.

Magicmanmb
12-13-2011, 11:51
We just had another round of attrition cuts here so officers are scrambling to get in as reserves with other departments to keep credentials.

Kadetklapp
12-13-2011, 11:56
I know there heavy and annoying but my duty weapon is going back to a metal frame pistol. Lately local agencies are having problems w/polymer frames

http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/entries/icons/original/000/000/015/orly.jpg?1229112642

Lt Scott 14
12-13-2011, 12:37
Had 15 Reserves: Even the technical wording of IC codes gets different to who reads it. The off duty obligation is better fielded as a witness to information, felonies not withstanding.
Depts have different rules to adhere, and the authority of badge/arrest can lead to a lawsuit. Cell phone call to dept can bring instant help, with support, if needed.
We advised our Reserves to work with the full timers and be part of the solution, not a problem. Full timers will appreciate the help with prisoners, reports, Vin checks, basic tie up of officers to other matters. No need to be Sonny Crockett, it won't assist the dept you are trying to help out. My understanding that Indiana Reserves cannot be paid directly makes it a volunteer group striving to help the municipal dept. Be carefull!