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jr05
11-28-2011, 08:08
First off, I am new to reloading (haven't even gotten my setup yet, getting it for Christmas). Just thought I would stop in and give a preemptive "HI"

Also, I am getting some supplies so I will be set when the press gets here (lee classic turret with lee 4 die carbide 9mm set). I will be loading 9mm to start and am going to start with:

124gr Montana Gold FMJ
Titegroup or Universal Power
WSP Primers
Free Brass (I have saved for a few years...)

I am getting the hand prime system and the auto disk powder measure (maybe get the safety prime later, but hear it is a hassle). I will be getting a primer pocket tool, scale, and a tumbler with media. Are there any other necessities I should get so I don't end up needing something and can't load until I get it (besides manuals, books, etc? I have been reading those already)? Do I need a case trimmer?

rg1
11-28-2011, 08:23
You don't need a case trimmer for 9MM. If you load for rifles or straight walled pistol cases like .357 or .44 Magnum where even roll crimps are needed then you will need a case trimmer. Not familiar with Lee equipment. You will need a caliper to measure things.

ColoCG
11-28-2011, 08:35
You will need a set of Calipers (dial or digital) to measure oal of catridges and diameters,etc. Also the Lee safety prime is no hassle and works very good and faster.

Also welcome to GTR.

jr05
11-28-2011, 08:46
Calipers! I knew I was forgetting something.

I do plan to load 45ACP and 5.56 down the road but not right now. I will save the case trimmer for when that time comes.

As far as the safety prime goes, maybe I should switch out the RCBS hand primer I was going to get, and go with the Safety Prime?

FLSlim
11-28-2011, 08:49
An early welcome to the wonderful world of reloading! Christmas will be exciting. See above on gear and, if by primer pocket tool, you mean something to clean the primer pocket, you can live without that (I have for 30 yrs). As you probably already know, keep an eye open for sales and buy everything in bulk to minimize component costs.

jr05
11-28-2011, 08:58
I do plan to buy in bulk as much as possible (might start with 1lb of powder though to make sure I like the powder I choose).

Based on the prices for the components (and qty) I am looking at, I can load for about $12/100. Does that seem reasonable? It certainly does for me since I am spending about $23/100 for factory and shoot about 2-3k rounds per year.

creophus
11-28-2011, 09:22
Welcome to the hobby. Get dial calipers. I know digital might seem better, but trust me, get dial and you'll never be without calipers when your battery dies.

GioaJack
11-28-2011, 09:32
Sell your wife on the black market, put your children up for adoption and buy a flat screen for your loading room... no sense in delaying the inevitable.

Oh, and perfect the technique of midnight wheel weight stealing... er, scrounging.


Jack

F106 Fan
11-28-2011, 09:33
There are a few folks in this group who might suggest that you not use Tite Group (#12 in table) as one of your first powders. That same admonition might apply to any of the 'fast' powders including Bullseye (#6).

Those same folks would probably recommend something like Unique (#35 in the table) or, probably better, WSF (#47).

http://www.reloadbench.com/burn.html

Besides burn rate, there is the issue of bulk (a double charge of Unique will be VERY noticeable) and the type of powder granule as it affects metering (Unique might not meter as well as WSF).

Before you settle on a powder, I suggest you ask around for powder suggestions that might be appropriate to a first time reloader. FWIW, I'm not the one to ask...

Richard

ColoCG
11-28-2011, 09:36
You might want to look at: http://kempfgunshop.com They have a package with options on the LCT and accessories at good prices. I would go with the safety prime and it can be included in their package.

ColoCG
11-28-2011, 09:41
There are a few folks in this group who might suggest that you not use Tite Group (#12 in table) as one of your first powders. That same admonition might apply to any of the 'fast' powders including Bullseye (#6).

Those same folks would probably recommend something like Unique (#35 in the table) or, probably better, WSF (#47).

http://www.reloadbench.com/burn.html

Besides burn rate, there is the issue of bulk (a double charge of Unique will be VERY noticeable) and the type of powder granule as it affects metering (Unique might not meter as well as WSF).

Before you settle on a powder, I suggest you ask around for powder suggestions that might be appropriate to a first time reloader. FWIW, I'm not the one to ask...

Richard

I agree I would go with Unique or WSF for 9mm, for a newbie just starting out or anyone for that matter.

creophus
11-28-2011, 10:20
I started with Titegroup in ...38spl. There sure isn't much powder in the bottom of the case. If that's a concern, then definitely go with a slower, more voluminous powder.

I went Titegroup because the value was much higher.

rpgman
11-28-2011, 11:05
I do plan to buy in bulk as much as possible (might start with 1lb of powder though to make sure I like the powder I choose).

Based on the prices for the components (and qty) I am looking at, I can load for about $12/100. Does that seem reasonable? It certainly does for me since I am spending about $23/100 for factory and shoot about 2-3k rounds per year.


that's about right. I'm loading both 9mm and .40 at about 13.3 and 13.6 cents a round.

Here's a good reloading spreadsheet to figure out costs.

http://westernsafellc.com/Reloading.xls

Greg

jr05
11-28-2011, 11:28
Well, you have convinced me to go with WSF for my first powder... I will most likely still go with 1lb though just to get a feel for it. That should get me through quite a bit of rounds anyway!

IndyGunFreak
11-28-2011, 11:35
Well, you have convinced me to go with WSF for my first powder... I will most likely still go with 1lb though just to get a feel for it. That should get me through quite a bit of rounds anyway!

Man, I was hoping you'd get a tongue lashing from Fred... :rofl:

Seriously, good choice switching from TG for your first go around (IMO).

Happy loading :)

RustyFN
11-28-2011, 11:39
First off, I am new to reloading (haven't even gotten my setup yet, getting it for Christmas). Just thought I would stop in and give a preemptive "HI"

Also, I am getting some supplies so I will be set when the press gets here (lee classic turret with lee 4 die carbide 9mm set). I will be loading 9mm to start and am going to start with:

124gr Montana Gold FMJ
Titegroup or Universal Power
WSP Primers
Free Brass (I have saved for a few years...)

I am getting the hand prime system and the auto disk powder measure (maybe get the safety prime later, but hear it is a hassle). I will be getting a primer pocket tool, scale, and a tumbler with media. Are there any other necessities I should get so I don't end up needing something and can't load until I get it (besides manuals, books, etc? I have been reading those already)? Do I need a case trimmer?

Welcome. I have been loading on a classic turret press for five years, great press. These are my recommendations. Get the pro auto disk instead of the regular auto disk. I personally wouldn't load on the CT without the safety prime. It has worked near flawless for me and you will slow you production rate way down without it. I also recommend a dial caliper, just as fast and easy to read and always ready when you need it. I think the best deal is the kit at www.kempfgunshop.com with the safety prime and pro auto upgrades.

GioaJack
11-28-2011, 11:46
Indy, it's after Thanksgiving, how come that stupid penguin isn't wearing a Santa hat? Flatlander scrooge.


Jack

Colorado4Wheel
11-28-2011, 11:49
First off, I am new to reloading (haven't even gotten my setup yet, getting it for Christmas). Just thought I would stop in and give a preemptive "HI"

Also, I am getting some supplies so I will be set when the press gets here (lee classic turret with lee 4 die carbide 9mm set). I will be loading 9mm to start and am going to start with:

124gr Montana Gold FMJ
Titegroup or Universal Power
WSP Primers
Free Brass (I have saved for a few years...)

I am getting the hand prime system and the auto disk powder measure (maybe get the safety prime later, but hear it is a hassle). I will be getting a primer pocket tool, scale, and a tumbler with media. Are there any other necessities I should get so I don't end up needing something and can't load until I get it (besides manuals, books, etc? I have been reading those already)? Do I need a case trimmer?

Welcome.

Get the Kempfs kit. Add a Dillon Scale for $55. Buy some Harbor Freight Dial calipers. Wash the brass and let it dry between now and Christmas. Titegroup is a nice powder with a couple people on this forum who HATE IT. 231 would be another good options as would WSF. Unique meters poorly. Newbies tend to be anal about "just the right charge" so I would choose WSF over Unique. WSF is probably your best choice. Universal is made under 3 names. Be very careful which one you are looking at.

Don't hand prime for 9mm. Total waste of time. Some people complain about the Safety Prime. Remember A LOT of the feedback you read online is about the regular Lee Turret. NOT the LCT. Also, it's very easy to adjust and tune the safety prime. If it's problematic you just add a washer under it to raise it up a smidgen. Simple. Get the LCT kit from Kempfs with the safety prime. Don't assume it won't work. I have never had one that didn't and I have owned two. There is a little bit of a learning curve but it's not bad. Here is a video of my fat arse using a LCT with the safety prime.

http://s145.photobucket.com/albums/r215/98sr20ve/?action=view&current=LCTVideoBetter.mp4

You don't want a case trimmer for 9mm

F106 Fan
11-28-2011, 13:05
You can get factory load data here:
http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

Select Load Type = Pistol, Cartridge = 9mm Luger then click Get Data
Select Bullet weight = 124, Powder = WSF then click Get Data

You will see load data for the 124 gr FMJ with powder charges of 4.7 to 5.3 gr of WSF. The minimum load will just make the IDPA requirement of 125 PF (bullet weight in grains times velocity in FPS).

It's a place to start... Verify the numbers because I am getting old and my typing sucks.

Richard

unclebob
11-28-2011, 13:36
Welcome.

Get the Kempfs kit. Add a Dillon Scale for $55. Buy some Harbor Freight Dial calipers. Wash the brass and let it dry between now and Christmas. Titegroup is a nice powder with a couple people on this forum who HATE IT. 231 would be another good options as would WSF. Unique meters poorly. Newbies tend to be anal about "just the right charge" so I would choose WSF over Unique. WSF is probably your best choice. Universal is made under 3 names. Be very careful which one you are looking at.

Don't hand prime for 9mm. Total waste of time. Some people complain about the Safety Prime. Remember A LOT of the feedback you read online is about the regular Lee Turret. NOT the LCT. Also, it's very easy to adjust and tune the safety prime. If it's problematic you just add a washer under it to raise it up a smidgen. Simple. Get the LCT kit from Kempfs with the safety prime. Don't assume it won't work. I have never had one that didn't and I have owned two. There is a little bit of a learning curve but it's not bad. Here is a video of my fat arse using a LCT with the safety prime.

http://s145.photobucket.com/albums/r215/98sr20ve/?action=view&current=LCTVideoBetter.mp4

You don't want a case trimmer for 9mm

:agree:
But I would get digital calipers. Just buy extra batteries, and then when it goes dead replace the battery, and when the next time you go to the store buy another battery. I have both and donít even bother with the dial anymore. Digital are so much nicer.

:welcome:

Colorado4Wheel
11-28-2011, 13:45
I don't know why I said dial calipers. I really prefer digital for ease of use.

jr05
11-28-2011, 13:56
I am definitely going to go with digital calipers. I have used a pair of Mitutoyo digital calipers at work for 5 years and have not had to replace the battery yet. I do not expect this to be an issue...

IndyGunFreak
11-28-2011, 16:39
Welcome.

Get the Kempfs kit. Add a Dillon Scale for $55. Buy some Harbor Freight Dial calipers. Wash the brass and let it dry between now and Christmas. Titegroup is a nice powder with a couple people on this forum who HATE IT. 231 would be another good options as would WSF. Unique meters poorly. Newbies tend to be anal about "just the right charge" so I would choose WSF over Unique. WSF is probably your best choice. Universal is made under 3 names. Be very careful which one you are looking at.

Don't hand prime for 9mm. Total waste of time. Some people complain about the Safety Prime. Remember A LOT of the feedback you read online is about the regular Lee Turret. NOT the LCT. Also, it's very easy to adjust and tune the safety prime. If it's problematic you just add a washer under it to raise it up a smidgen. Simple. Get the LCT kit from Kempfs with the safety prime. Don't assume it won't work. I have never had one that didn't and I have owned two. There is a little bit of a learning curve but it's not bad. Here is a video of my fat arse using a LCT with the safety prime.

http://s145.photobucket.com/albums/r215/98sr20ve/?action=view&current=LCTVideoBetter.mp4

You don't want a case trimmer for 9mm

Agree.... Read Colorado4Wheel's sticky in this forum, and follow it to the letter. There's no reason at all to hand prime, unless you just are dying to go as slow as possible.. :). You'll find there's more than one of us here that started on the Lee Classic Turret, and it is a GREAT first press.

Best of luck!

jr05
11-28-2011, 18:00
fine, fine, I will go with the safety prime :)

The only reason I liked the idea of the hand primer was I could de-cap and re-size a bunch of rounds (set press like a single stage), then clean out the primer pockets (doesn't look like I need to do this as much as I thought), inspect casings at this point, and then prime them. This could all be done away from the reloading area like watching TV with the wife. I could then take the primed bullets and put them in the press to do powder, bullet seating, and FCD.

All in all I did like the idea of the safety prime, but had heard of people having trouble. Looks like that isn't an issue and I will stick with the safety prime.

Thanks for all the feedback by the way, very helpful! I am very excited about reloading and just sorted out 2k rounds of brass by headstamp and will throw them in the tumbler when it gets here on Wednesday.

GioaJack
11-28-2011, 18:13
fine, fine, I will go with the safety prime :)

I could then take the primed bullets and put them in the press to do powder, bullet seating, and FCD.


Uh-oh. :whistling:


Jack

jr05
11-28-2011, 18:24
Uh-oh. :whistling:


Jack

Did I touch on a controversial topic?

RustyFN
11-28-2011, 18:57
I am definitely going to go with digital calipers. I have used a pair of Mitutoyo digital calipers at work for 5 years and have not had to replace the battery yet. I do not expect this to be an issue...

It will be with the cheap HF digital calipers. I have the HF digital and dial and haven't touched the digital in years.

Colorado4Wheel
11-28-2011, 19:16
Batteries in a HF will last about a year after your initial batteries die in about 4 months.

StaTiK
11-28-2011, 19:37
Did I touch on a controversial topic?
Whoa, Titegroup and FCD in the same thread? Now just say that you think you prefer the Loadmaster and prepare to be banished (not really).

-StaTiK-

jr05
11-28-2011, 19:45
Whoa, Titegroup and FCD in the same thread? Now just say that you think you prefer the Loadmaster and prepare to be banished (not really).

-StaTiK-

Haha glad I am getting all these things out of they way before I actually start reloading :supergrin:

GioaJack
11-28-2011, 19:53
Forget about the FCD, it's nothing but a small boat anchor... just do it the right way, learn how to adjust your dies.

Of course for entertainment purposes you could fall in love with it and extol its virtues on a frequent basis. (Grow a thick skin first. :supergrin: )


Jack

F106 Fan
11-29-2011, 00:23
If you watch this video, you will see that a separate crimp die is being used in the station after bullet seating. It may be a taper crimp die or it may be a normal crimp die.

http://leeprecision.net/HelpVideos/Turret%20Press/loading%20on%20turret-1.wmv

I prefer to use an actual taper crimp die rather than trying to get the proper adjustment with a normal crimping die. The taper crimp die is easier to adjust.

Richard

unclebob
11-29-2011, 07:37
If you watch this video, you will see that a separate crimp die is being used in the station after bullet seating. It may be a taper crimp die or it may be a normal crimp die.


I prefer to use an actual taper crimp die rather than trying to get the proper adjustment with a normal crimping die. The taper crimp die is easier to adjust.

Richard

I know I just woke up and have not had my coffee yet. But what is a normal crimp die? Do you mean a bullet seat/crimp die?

F106 Fan
11-29-2011, 09:08
I know I just woke up and have not had my coffee yet. But what is a normal crimp die? Do you mean a bullet seat/crimp die?

Some folks take the seater plug out of a 2d seat/crimp die and use the crimp portion in the final station. In my view, this die is harder to adjust because a very little rotation of the die results in quite a large change in crimp.

Some die sets don't include a separate taper crimp die (and don't include a 2d seat/crimp die either) so it might be worth thinking about what to order.

I think I remember having to buy separate taper crimp dies when I was using RCBS die sets. Now that I'm about knee deep in dies, it's hard to recall just what I did back in the early '80s then I was using a single stage press and a Ponsness-Warren MetalMatic. Today, I'm kind of fond of Dillon die sets (on Dillon presses) and the Redding Competition Die Sets for precision rifle loading.

That LCT is a pretty neat press! I watched the video and I was kind of impressed. Sure, there's 4 handle strokes per loaded round but the process looks pretty efficient.


Richard

unclebob
11-29-2011, 10:25
So for the OP buys a Lee 3 die set and a Lee taper crimp die. He is all set without having to buy or using the dreaded FCD die.

F106 Fan
11-29-2011, 10:31
Exactly... The 3 die set doesn't include the dreaded FCD and the taper crimp die is available separately.

As to the 3 die set, I would go for the carbide version but that may be easy because Lee only makes a few steel die sets for pistor.

Richard

jr05
11-29-2011, 10:54
I will be getting the kit, which I believe comes with the 4 carbide die set (with FCD). That is the reason I was going to use it.

Just to confirm, what is the issue with the FCD? It sounds like it is just not necessary and has the potential of covering up other issues with your loading process (improperly set-up dies). But if you are using it to just get rid of any minor belling you get from bullet seating is it that bad?

Since everybody hates the FCD, am I ok with not crimping (as long as there is no bullet movement with a little pressure, the rounds fit in the chamber, and do not get setback while cambering, or do I now need to buy a taper crimp die to go with the 4 die set I am already getting to be safe?

unclebob
11-29-2011, 11:17
I will be getting the kit, which I believe comes with the 4 carbide die set (with FCD). That is the reason I was going to use it.

Just to confirm, what is the issue with the FCD? It sounds like it is just not necessary and has the potential of covering up other issues with your loading process (improperly set-up dies). But if you are using it to just get rid of any minor belling you get from bullet seating is it that bad?

Since everybody hates the FCD, am I ok with not crimping (as long as there is no bullet movement with a little pressure, the rounds fit in the chamber, and do not get setback while cambering, or do I now need to buy a taper crimp die to go with the 4 die set I am already getting to be safe?

As long as you are only removing the bell on the case. Taper crimp is kind of a misnomer. You are not crimping anything you are only removing the bell on the case. Bullet setback etc. is from the sizer die not the taper crimp die.

IndyGunFreak
11-29-2011, 12:18
Indy, it's after Thanksgiving, how come that stupid penguin isn't wearing a Santa hat? Flatlander scrooge.


Jack

Still trying to figure out what that picture is in his video camera..lol.

IndyGunFreak
11-29-2011, 12:21
All in all I did like the idea of the safety prime, but had heard of people having trouble. Looks like that isn't an issue and I will stick with the safety prime.

Are you confusing the safety prime, with the standard priming system that Lee has on their progressive systems, the Lee Pro 1000, and the Lee Loadmaster? Those two machines, are legendary for their priming problems (especially the Loadmaster). I honestly can't recall having any significant issue w/ my safety prime over the years. It's honestly so dead nuts simple, it would be tough to really find something to cause a problem.

I will be getting the kit, which I believe comes with the 4 carbide die set (with FCD). That is the reason I was going to use it.

Just to confirm, what is the issue with the FCD? It sounds like it is just not necessary and has the potential of covering up other issues with your loading process (improperly set-up dies). But if you are using it to just get rid of any minor belling you get from bullet seating is it that bad?

Since everybody hates the FCD, am I ok with not crimping (as long as there is no bullet movement with a little pressure, the rounds fit in the chamber, and do not get setback while cambering, or do I now need to buy a taper crimp die to go with the 4 die set I am already getting to be safe?

Man, that's a loaded post...lol. Is the FCD 100% necessary (or even 50% necessary?) NO. Is it going to cause you to be impotent, or your rounds to mysteriously not fire, or to fire with accuracy you're not capable of? NO.

Bottom line, if the FCD comes with your kit, just use it. It's not gonna hurt anything, and it will do what you need it to do... remove the bell.

StaTiK
11-29-2011, 12:25
Since everybody hates the FCD, am I ok with not crimping (as long as there is no bullet movement with a little pressure, the rounds fit in the chamber, and do not get setback while cambering, or do I now need to buy a taper crimp die to go with the 4 die set I am already getting to be safe?

Not everybody hates the FCD :whistling:

The generally held consensus is that it isn't necessary for FMJ, though some find it helpful, and is undesirable for cast lead bullets. That is as diplomatic as I can make it.

-StaTiK-

PCJim
11-29-2011, 12:32
Some reloaders run every one of their rounds thru a case gauge to insure they will chamber during a match. Some reloaders use a FCD instead of a case gauge for the same purpose.

The FCD can be used in a variety of ways. Just be aware that if using it with lead projectiles, you run the risk of deforming the bullet which will greatly effect accuracy.

F106 Fan
11-29-2011, 13:41
Since everybody hates the FCD, am I ok with not crimping (as long as there is no bullet movement with a little pressure, the rounds fit in the chamber, and do not get setback while cambering, or do I now need to buy a taper crimp die to go with the 4 die set I am already getting to be safe?

I have never used an FCD so I don't really hate it. But, since I have loaded tens of thousands of rounds without using one, I guess I can't see any purpose in having it.

Yes, you need to buy the taper crimp die separately. Here again, your calipers will come in handy. After crimping (which is really just removing the bell at the mouth), measure the shell diameter right at the mouth. It should be twice the thickness of the brass (say 0.020") plus the bullet diameter (say 0.451 for .45 ACP) - a total of 0.471". The SAMMI standard for this measurement is 0.473" maximum.

The bullet is held by the neck tension and this is usually adequate for most straight-wall pistol cartridges.

Another thing: I trust my resizing die. I NEVER gauge or drop test any of my pistol loads and I have never had a failure to feed. I try to keep the OAL about right and I agonize over the possibility of an over-charge but my OCD does not go far enough to have me gauging cartridges. Unless we start talking about precision rifle...

Richard

creophus
11-29-2011, 13:44
Bottom line, if the FCD comes with your kit, just use it. It's not gonna hurt anything, and it will do what you need it to do... remove the bell.

Word!!!

Colorado4Wheel
11-29-2011, 13:46
Even I would use a FCD in 9mm with most common bullet and OAL combo's. It's a non issue. And that is coming from me a very "I don't need no sticking FCD kind of guy".

jr05
11-29-2011, 13:50
So in effect the FCD SHOULD do the same thing as a taper crimp for use with straight wall pistol cartridges since I just need to get rid of the belling.

With this said, I think I will give the FCD a try since it comes with the kit and I would prefer to not buy a separate taper die if they FCD will do what I need...

This has been a very helpful thread, I am excited to start. I think switching to WSF is very good from TG as it will be a LOT more volume and should be a lot easier to spot any possibility of a double charge (by the looks of it, should overfill the case if doubled up). I know I will be vigilant about this, but always good to have something really obvious when it comes to this esp. since I am new. I am picking up 1lb at my local store for $19.99 with 1k WSP primers.

I really appreciate all the help. I can tell this will be a fantastic place for information in my upcoming adventure/hobby.

creophus
11-29-2011, 13:50
Only time I don't like the FCD is when I load lead bullets. Other than that I'm ambivalent.

GioaJack
11-29-2011, 14:03
So in effect the FCD SHOULD do the same thing as a taper crimp for use with straight wall pistol cartridges since I just need to get rid of the belling.

With this said, I think I will give the FCD a try since it comes with the kit and I would prefer to not buy a separate taper die if they FCD will do what I need...

This has been a very helpful thread, I am excited to start. I think switching to WSF is very good from TG as it will be a LOT more volume and should be a lot easier to spot any possibility of a double charge (by the looks of it, should overfill the case if doubled up). I know I will be vigilant about this, but always good to have something really obvious when it comes to this esp. since I am new. I am picking up 1lb at my local store for $19.99 with 1k WSP primers.

I really appreciate all the help. I can tell this will be a fantastic place for information in my upcoming adventure/hobby.


Just so you know, 9mm is not a straight walled cartridge, it's tapered.


Jack

rpgman
11-29-2011, 14:42
Even I would use a FCD in 9mm with most common bullet and OAL combo's. It's a non issue. And that is coming from me a very "I don't need no sticking FCD kind of guy".

I use the FCD in my Lyman Turret II press with 9mm and .40
works fine for me.
Greg