Is a eotech or a optic really worth it? I'm thinking about selling mine. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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DeputyAlex
11-28-2011, 14:21
Is a eotech or a optic really worth it? Iím thinking about selling my 512 to fund my next firearm purchase. I have had it for about 6 months and all it really did was add more weight to a already heavy rifle and make myself look like a mall ninja at the range. Any thoughts or suggestions?

surf
11-28-2011, 14:26
Red dot optic worth it? Mall Ninja at the range? Really? What range is that so I can steer clear of it?

At least on a critical use rifle they should be considered standard equipment.

Doc8404
11-28-2011, 14:27
Everyone i know likes them...prices for new have dropped drastically and there are appears to be a lot of people selling for cheap on various boards....

MrMurphy
11-28-2011, 14:52
While I personally wouldn't use an Eotech unless it was issued......

What crack are you smoking? Do you only shoot off a bench at stationary targets?

If you seriously are a deputy, you need to attend some professional training with a rifle......NOW. No more guns, learn to use the one you got.

And if you think an Eotech adds weight, what the hell do you already have on there?

At one point I ran an Aimpoint, quadrant sight, leaf sight, PEQ2, Surefire light onboard the rifle, plus an M203, and at 11lb i sometimes found it unbalanced (front heavy), but never particularly heavy as a rifle.

Sounds like you need professional training from Gunsite, EAG, Trident Concepts or MagPul and some serious gym time.

IGotIt
11-28-2011, 14:55
Just for range plinking, I would say that if you are good with your irons, then no, you don't need optics. For anything else, war, if used at work, competitions, and especially as you age and your eyesight begins to fade a bit, yes you need some type of optic.

I sold my Eotech and dropped a few notches down in the optics department on my rifles because I couldn't justify the cost for what it was being used for.

M&P15T
11-28-2011, 14:59
I run an Eotech, and I can't imagine running an AR without some type of optic. I personally find my Eotech incredibly accurate, extremely fast, and very efficient. I couldn't care less about the additional few ounces, and I seriously couldn't care less about how anyone else views my using it at the range.

F a buncha what anyone else thinks, does it work well for you?

eracer
11-28-2011, 15:07
I have an Aimpoint and a light on my suppressed SBR (Home defense.)
I have an ACOG on my carbine (General use out to 300 yards.)
I have iron sights on my truck gun (Throw it in the back for close encounters of the mobile kind.)

Different tools for different weapons.

DeputyAlex
11-28-2011, 15:13
I haven't been a cop for a few years now. And my AR is just a fun gun nothing more. Compared to my ak or 870 it feels heavy I see the eotech and think I could have spent that money on something else. Don't jump on me because I don't see a use for it in my day to day life.

shadow65
11-28-2011, 15:14
In my opinion, for L.E. work you need dot optic. I ran an Eotech while on the E.R.T. There is no doubt it will speed up your target aquisition.
I like the Eotech because of the 1 moa dot in the center and the 65 moa ring. The 1 moa dot is great for longer range preceision shooting compared to a bigger dot on the Aimpoint.
I also use Aimpoints. Simple, reliable dot optic. Battle proven.
For a duty weapon, an optic and light are necessities. I use an Aimpoint and TLR on my 10.5" Entry weapon. Light weght and functional. I also use a TD QD stubby vert grip.
Take the other crap, whatever it may be, off.
Dave

M&P15T
11-28-2011, 15:18
Even if w're talking nothing more than range fun (which is all I do with my AR) an Eotech is epically accurate. The two best times I had shooting my AR were the result of the effortless nature of using an Eotech to make precise shots at 50-100 yards....much easier than with irons.

Put the dot on the target (once poa/poi/hold-over has been figured out) and make golf balls and clay pigeons disappear.

WoodenPlank
11-28-2011, 15:43
The only two reasons I don't use an EO Tech is the reticle looks fuzzy as crap to me (astigmatism), and the battery life blows. EO Techs, Aimpoints, and other quality optics are not mall ninja.

arclight610
11-28-2011, 15:52
Im just as good with irons, but a red dot makes that "just as good" much easier to obtain

surf
11-28-2011, 16:05
Alex, no one is jumping on you. It is pretty common knowledge and sense these days that a red dot optic is a pure advantage and as I mentioned above pretty standard equipment on a defensive rifle, be it personal home, LE duty or military use. I cannot fathom a range where people would consider such an optic to be considered "mall ninja", especially this day in age.

Everyone generally stresses that providing information about your needs / uses is critical. If you would have simply explained in your initial post, the same things that you eventually did in your follow up post we can avoid any misunderstandings. I have to admit that when I saw your user name then read your initial post I too said WTF? Which is why I put the disclaimer of "at least on a critical use rifle". If I knew you needs or if you like recreational shooting with irons only, well then go for it.

HAIL CAESAR
11-28-2011, 16:16
If your having fun with your rifle....shoot it with just irons. Or shoot it upside down, it doesn't matter as it is just for fun. If you don't like or need the Eo, sell it.

Disregarded9-side
11-28-2011, 16:24
I sold my 512 and it was the most regretted gun transaction to date.

PM me if you're trying to get rid of that.

TedG
11-28-2011, 17:25
If your having fun with your rifle....shoot it with just irons. Or shoot it upside down, it doesn't matter as it is just for fun. If you don't like or need the Eo, sell it.

Wise advice grasshopper. :fred:

bmoore
11-28-2011, 18:22
While I personally wouldn't use an Eotech unless it was issued......

What crack are you smoking? Do you only shoot off a bench at stationary targets?

If you seriously are a deputy, you need to attend some professional training with a rifle......NOW. No more guns, learn to use the one you got.

And if you think an Eotech adds weight, what the hell do you already have on there?

At one point I ran an Aimpoint, quadrant sight, leaf sight, PEQ2, Surefire light onboard the rifle, plus an M203, and at 11lb i sometimes found it unbalanced (front heavy), but never particularly heavy as a rifle.

Sounds like you need professional training from Gunsite, EAG, Trident Concepts or MagPul and some serious gym time.

:upeyes:

bmoore
11-28-2011, 18:27
Shoot it how ever you like it. If its just a range gun (like most of ours are) just set it up however you like and shoot the crap out of it. Dont worry about Mr Murphy jumping on you, his replies are typically sarcastic. Atleast when he replied to you 50% of the rehtoric was directed towards your question, 50% is pretty rare so congrats to you.

faawrenchbndr
11-28-2011, 18:37
......Dont worry about Mr Murphy jumping on you, his replies are typically sarcastic. Atleast when he replied to you 50% of the rehtoric was directed towards your question, 50% is pretty rare so congrats to you.


You don't have a clue,.......:faint:

bmoore
11-28-2011, 18:41
You don't have a clue,.......:faint:

I dont want to either. Asking a fairly new person what kind of crack their smoking is kinda low rent. You can bow down all you want. Isnt there a deal in the classified section for you to go pee on?

faawrenchbndr
11-28-2011, 18:50
Let me go look,.........are you going to bait some more down riggers?

bmoore
11-28-2011, 18:56
Let me go look,.........are you going to bait some more down riggers?

Lol ok that one was funny.

faawrenchbndr
11-28-2011, 19:00
Holy crap,.....I made ya laugh!

Murphy is a good guy,.....he may have come off a bit harsh. I'm sure he meant
no disrespect, mostly water cooler talk!

WoodenPlank
11-28-2011, 20:19
:upeyes:

Holy crap,.....I made ya laugh!

Murphy is a good guy,.....he may have come off a bit harsh. I'm sure he meant
no disrespect, mostly water cooler talk!

Trust me, that was tame compared to a beating I took from a certain mod at M4C last time I ran into him. I learned from it, though, and laughed my ass off the entire time he was verbally assaulting me.

MrMurphy
11-29-2011, 03:58
No sarcasm intended, i meant what I said. Anyone who's running a rifle for serious use without an optic, except in a few specialized instances or because they have departmental morons in charge, needs better training. Sometimes you can't change the rules and irons are all you get, it happens.

But his reply and his screen name did not match.

If you don't like what I have to say, I don't honestly care. Sometimes you have to say what people need to hear.

series1811
11-29-2011, 04:56
In my opinion, for L.E. work you need dot optic. I ran an Eotech while on the E.R.T. There is no doubt it will speed up your target aquisition.
I like the Eotech because of the 1 moa dot in the center and the 65 moa ring. The 1 moa dot is great for longer range preceision shooting compared to a bigger dot on the Aimpoint.
I also use Aimpoints. Simple, reliable dot optic. Battle proven.
For a duty weapon, an optic and light are necessities. I use an Aimpoint and TLR on my 10.5" Entry weapon. Light weght and functional. I also use a TD QD stubby vert grip.
Take the other crap, whatever it may be, off.
Dave

Attached flashlight first, Aimpoint or Eotech second. I started out with an Aimpoint back in the 90's, then they got switched out for Eotechs. I liked both, so I don't really get too excited into the which is better arguments.

But, I agree. Once you have been trained on one, target acquisition is so much faster it is unbelievable. I actually shoot a little better at 50 yards and out with iron sights, but not so much that it mattered.

But, now, retired to a much less exciting law enforcement job than I had before, I just carry a twelve gauge shotgun in my trunk with nothing on it. :supergrin: and I just don't see the need for electronic sights on my play guns (although I did have a red dot mounted on a BB gun for a while). :supergrin:

cowboy1964
11-29-2011, 06:37
It was painful to my wallet to buy my EoTech but as they say, pay once, cry once.

My AR is my defensive long gun (as is the 12ga). A quality optic is worth the money.

Alaskapopo
11-30-2011, 01:39
Shoot it how ever you like it. If its just a range gun (like most of ours are) just set it up however you like and shoot the crap out of it. Dont worry about Mr Murphy jumping on you, his replies are typically sarcastic. Atleast when he replied to you 50% of the rehtoric was directed towards your question, 50% is pretty rare so congrats to you.

Guys with real training tend to be less tactful because they see the same crap over and over again. Yes optics give you an advantage that is a big no brainer. I can understand why he was sarcastic. Also the OP's post implies if you have optics your a mall ninja which sets a negative tone from the start. Grow some thicker skin. Irons are pretty much obsolete other than as a back up sighting system. Sure you can be fast and accurate with them with practice but they fall down in low light and when shooting on the move. They also have issues when shooting from un conventional positions.

As for weight on the rifile while I like a lighter weight gun I found that losing 70 pounds off my gut in the last 5 months has helped me far more than trying to lose 10 ounces off my rifle.

Pat

Doc8404
11-30-2011, 02:20
so is Mr. Murphy the end all God we can go to now? Cool....now i have someone to PM with stupid questions.

faawrenchbndr
11-30-2011, 02:30
Dang,.....ask questions, get expert advice, then bite the hand that feeds ya?!

I trust 'Murphy's advice and opinions, some of you should figure out why!

MrMurphy
11-30-2011, 03:54
I am not a god, but I'm also someone who has used a rifle as something other than a range toy, and doesn't fall into that trap.

All my rifles are set up for either hunting or fighting. I have no 'fun' guns. Even my .22 is for practice. I might not be active any more, but if it ever comes down to it, i keep my tools in the same condition as when I was active, with the best quality accessories I can get.

I've run irons, no light in the dark searching buildings. It sucked. I've run an M68 with a white light, and a PVS-14 with a PEQ-2 while doing the same.

If your rifle is properly equipped, some random oxygen thief's opinion at the range is worth absolutely nothing.

I don't give a crap about how people think i dress and I sure don't care what they think about how my rifle is equipped, unless they're trained and experienced. I'm definitely not the be-all and end-all and I am well aware of it, so if a 20 years SWAT cop, Ranger, Delta, etc suggests something I would definitely take it into consideration.

How my rifle is set up, within my budgetary and operational limits, is pretty much the standard for most people these days with a clue anyways, so it's not an issue.

I am blunt. Ask stupid questions, get stupid answers. Don't like mine? I don't give a crap. It's your life on the line potentially, not mine, so disregard good advice all you want, I'm not the one who might die.

series1811
11-30-2011, 05:32
As for weight on the rifile while I like a lighter weight gun I found that losing 70 pounds off my gut in the last 5 months has helped me far more than trying to lose 10 ounces off my rifle.

Pat

That's a great point. I never get guys who are geared out to the max, take every training course they can find, can look at any other shooter and thell him what's wrong with him, but don't look like they could run a block without going into vapor lock. People forget that your primary tactical gear is your body.

One of our instructors a few years ago did a great exercise at our qualifications. He had us shoot one course and check our scores. For the second course, he made us sprint a hundred yards out, and a hundred yards back, and then shoot the course.

It was an eye opener. I was in shape and a big runner at the time (my knees are so shot I'm just a walker and a biker now), and my score went to crap. Guys who weren't in such good shape, were breathing so hard, and shaking so bad, they couldn't even qualify. We were shooting handguns, but a rifle and a red dot wouldn't have helped much, I don't think.

If you're looking to spice up range day, give it a try. :supergrin:

MrMurphy
11-30-2011, 13:52
Agreed.... Big eye opener (when I "WAS" in shape) was during an squadron-wide callout where a fireteam of us had to cover open ground between two buildings (grass, but near parking lot flat, over 300+meters). 300m of five second rushes, in body armor, with rifle, ammo, grenades, etc..... we were wiped out without even firing a shot. By the time we GOT to the next building to continue our sweep there was a lot of deep breathing and trembling arms. And this was from a bunch of pretty fit guys who did it every day (at least the basic job).

After 3 years in an office and wiped out knees, i've kind of let myself go, and I know it, which is why myself and a friend (never served, big guy who wants to get smaller) have started working out at work. Any improvement for him is excellent, and in my case, I know what I used to be capable of, it's just a matter of getting back to it. I'll never run much again, but i can at least rush a couple hundred yards in sprints and not die from exhaustion.

series1811
11-30-2011, 14:35
Agreed.... Big eye opener (when I "WAS" in shape) was during an squadron-wide callout where a fireteam of us had to cover open ground between two buildings (grass, but near parking lot flat, over 300+meters). 300m of five second rushes, in body armor, with rifle, ammo, grenades, etc..... we were wiped out without even firing a shot. By the time we GOT to the next building to continue our sweep there was a lot of deep breathing and trembling arms. And this was from a bunch of pretty fit guys who did it every day (at least the basic job).

After 3 years in an office and wiped out knees, i've kind of let myself go, and I know it, which is why myself and a friend (never served, big guy who wants to get smaller) have started working out at work. Any improvement for him is excellent, and in my case, I know what I used to be capable of, it's just a matter of getting back to it. I'll never run much again, but i can at least rush a couple hundred yards in sprints and not die from exhaustion.

Yeah, old age is hell (53 for me). I can still run fine. It's the next day that I pay for it. :supergrin:

SMOKEin
12-05-2011, 01:37
ignore...

12131
12-05-2011, 02:36
No sarcasm intended, i meant what I said. Anyone who's running a rifle for serious use without an optic, except in a few specialized instances or because they have departmental morons in charge, needs better training. Sometimes you can't change the rules and irons are all you get, it happens.

But his reply and his screen name did not match.

If you don't like what I have to say, I don't honestly care. Sometimes you have to say what people need to hear.
There are ways to say things, and there are ways to say things. You didn't have to come across as a jerk. "What crack are you smoking?". You're a mod here? Oh, I forgot, this is not THR.
Your first reply to his original post assumed a lot, when you know nothing about the man. And then, when he said his "AR is just a fun gun and nothing more", folks still jumped on him. :upeyes:
What the heck is wrong with people?

MrMurphy
12-05-2011, 07:52
Is a eotech or a optic really worth it? Iím thinking about selling my 512 to fund my next firearm purchase. I have had it for about 6 months and all it really did was add more weight to a already heavy rifle and make myself look like a mall ninja at the range. Any thoughts or suggestions?

I may not always be the most tactful, but when a guy named "DeputyAlex"

posts the above, I assume:

1. He's a deputy
2. He's carrying it on duty.

So yes, my initial comments stand.

Don't like my comments? Sorry, I'm not here to hold your hand or baby you. He needed some mentoring, and got it. And yes, any currently-serving law enforcement officer who stated the above (without saying it was for a range toy/fun gun specifically) would have gotten the same reply...if not worse.

Big difference between fighting guns and range toys. I am not opposed to range toys, but someone in the LE/Military is assumed they are speaking about their professional tools unless stated otherwise where I come from.

Again....don't like my opinion? I'm not forcing you to read it.

TunaFisherman
12-05-2011, 17:46
I run iron sights on my BCM for home defense. When I go to range I have a Leupold Mark AR 1.5-4x20 on a ADM scout mount.
My opinion in my home my iron sights will work better for me.
My Colt has Aimpoint Compml2 with a Aimpoint 3x magnifier. I really dont know why I have it. I prefer shooting the BCM with iron sights or the Leupold

In my opinion if I was a LEO or a Marine then yes.
For me my red dots are just a luxury item.

HAIL CAESAR
12-05-2011, 17:50
I can see it both ways.

Remember folks, it is just a discussion board.

Some folks are real Ninja's.
Some are wanna be Ninja's.
Some are target shooters.
Some are varmint shooters.
Some collect and
Some just bang away gleefully.

Nobody has to beat down another. Just remember when you post; that not everyone's wants, needs, and experience on the same page as you.

Al

faawrenchbndr
12-05-2011, 17:57
Very nicely put 'Caesar! It can be very easy to forget others' experience levels.

Alaskapopo
12-05-2011, 18:34
I run iron sights on my BCM for home defense. When I go to range I have a Leupold Mark AR 1.5-4x20 on a ADM scout mount.
My opinion in my home my iron sights will work better for me.
My Colt has Aimpoint Compml2 with a Aimpoint 3x magnifier. I really dont know why I have it. I prefer shooting the BCM with iron sights or the Leupold

In my opinion if I was a LEO or a Marine then yes.
For me my red dots are just a luxury item.

Irons can be shot very fast and accurate however they fall down in low light shooting and when shooting from akward positions. red dots excell in the situations that one may find in a typical home defense scenario. (Short range, low light)
Pat

TunaFisherman
12-05-2011, 21:38
Irons can be shot very fast and accurate however they fall down in low light shooting and when shooting from akward positions. red dots excell in the situations that one may find in a typical home defense scenario. (Short range, low light)
Pat

True, I have a light mounted, so lots of bright white light. Like I said its what I like. Its basically a backup gun as I would go for my pistols first.

BEER
12-05-2011, 21:50
it's YOUR rifle. if you think an optic will hinder you then toss it. do whatever it takes to make it work for you.

personally i've never given much of a squat about what others think of my gear, my first ar back in the mid 90's had a maglite duct taped to the forearm and a sawed off chunk of an axe handle woodscrewed through the bottom heat shield. it didn't look like much but it worked for me.

bmoore
12-05-2011, 22:06
my first ar back in the mid 90's had a maglite duct taped to the forearm and a sawed off chunk of an axe handle woodscrewed through the bottom heat shield. it didn't look like much but it worked for me.

I like your style, but you may wanna keep that one under your hat.

Alaskapopo
12-05-2011, 22:09
True, I have a light mounted, so lots of bright white light. Like I said its what I like. Its basically a backup gun as I would go for my pistols first.

Not trying to be an ass and I know I can come off that way without thinking so here goes. White light is essential we both agree but it by itself does not make up for the attributes of a RDS sight over irons. As for being a back up that's not very sound in my opinion. Pistols serve a purpose of being handy and practical when a long gun can not be carried. That is not the case in a typical home defense situation. Use a long gun, its got a lot more terminal performance and its easier to hit with under stress. I have taken a lot of shooters including myself and done simple drills at CQB ranges to show people that long guns are indeed faster and easier to hit with even at short pistol ranges. All the shooters but 2 were faster with their AR's vs their pistols. The two who were faster with their pistols were A and Master Class USPSA shooters. Given the choice I will always grab my patrol rifle over my Glock. I will also grab my 870 over my Glock. I love shooting pistols and I am fairly good with them but I know the advantages a long gun provides.
Pat

TunaFisherman
12-05-2011, 23:06
Not trying to be an ass and I know I can come off that way without thinking so here goes. White light is essential we both agree but it by itself does not make up for the attributes of a RDS sight over irons. As for being a back up that's not very sound in my opinion. Pistols serve a purpose of being handy and practical when a long gun can not be carried. That is not the case in a typical home defense situation. Use a long gun, its got a lot more terminal performance and its easier to hit with under stress. I have taken a lot of shooters including myself and done simple drills at CQB ranges to show people that long guns are indeed faster and easier to hit with even at short pistol ranges. All the shooters but 2 were faster with their AR's vs their pistols. The two who were faster with their pistols were A and Master Class USPSA shooters. Given the choice I will always grab my patrol rifle over my Glock. I will also grab my 870 over my Glock. I love shooting pistols and I am fairly good with them but I know the advantages a long gun provides.
Pat

I wasnt saying your wrong. I just know my house and my situation and what works for me. Pistol 1st and rifle 2nd. My pistols have TLR-1s and night sights.
I prefer the BCM, but it's not always the best choice.

MrMurphy
12-06-2011, 04:31
Even though i'll take an M4 over any pistol.....there's always a pistol handy. The AR, not always within reach.

If a couple mags of pistol ammo don't fix the problem while I'm moving to the rifle, the rifle might. Or take a whole lot of them with me.

series1811
12-06-2011, 09:04
Not trying to be an ass and I know I can come off that way without thinking so here goes. White light is essential we both agree but it by itself does not make up for the attributes of a RDS sight over irons. As for being a back up that's not very sound in my opinion. Pistols serve a purpose of being handy and practical when a long gun can not be carried. That is not the case in a typical home defense situation. Use a long gun, its got a lot more terminal performance and its easier to hit with under stress. I have taken a lot of shooters including myself and done simple drills at CQB ranges to show people that long guns are indeed faster and easier to hit with even at short pistol ranges. All the shooters but 2 were faster with their AR's vs their pistols. The two who were faster with their pistols were A and Master Class USPSA shooters. Given the choice I will always grab my patrol rifle over my Glock. I will also grab my 870 over my Glock. I love shooting pistols and I am fairly good with them but I know the advantages a long gun provides.
Pat

One good indicator of how much easier it is to shoot with a long gun, is how much more difficult the long gun vs. pistol qualifications courses are.

I know in my former agency, if we had shot the handgun course with our ARs or subguns, it would have been boring, because it would have been so easy to shoot a perfect score.