How much do you save reloading? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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silentlope
11-29-2011, 19:06
I am wondering how much is saved if you do reloading? And how much do you have to spend to do reloading right? I shoot about 100 rounds a week of .40 cal.

Currently I am spending $15 - $17 / 50 for FMJ good brass; and just tossing the ejected casings.

michael e
11-29-2011, 19:10
If buy in bulk on all stuff, primers powder bullets. Save the brass to reuse. It comes out to about half price , 40sw cost me about 6 for 50 rounds. As for how much you spend thats all up to what set up you want, mine was 150 range. In the end you will not save any money just get to shoot alot more.

cowboy1964
11-29-2011, 19:41
Currently I am spending $15 - $17 / 50 for FMJ good brass; and just tossing the ejected casings.

You're joking, right?

vafish
11-29-2011, 21:03
You won't save a single penny reloading. Anyone who tells you they save money by reloading is lying to you. Just ask them to show you the bank account with all their saved money in it. You will actually spend more money reloading as you buy more and more equipment.

However, you will get to shoot a lot more for the same amount of money.

I cast my own bullets from scrap lead for the .38 special and .45 ACP. Only cost is powder, primers, and my time. Not counting my time it's about 3.5 cents per round. Not counting my time I can load .30-06 for about 25 cents per round.

But no one factors in the time they spend. If I worked instead of sitting home casting bullets it would be cheaper for me to buy ammo. But I enjoy reloading as a hobby. It's also the only way to enjoy wild cat calibers like my .25-223 or old calibers like my .300 Savage. Another advantage to casting your own bullets is you just need a stash of powder and primers and you don't have to worry about ammo shortages any more.

dougader
11-29-2011, 21:19
Well, I picked up a 44 Special Ruger Blackhawk this year and it will never see a factory load. Run-of-the-mill Remington 44 special ammo was $55.99 at a local store. Sheese!

I load 100 rounds of new 44 special for about $27, after that the brass is free to load over and over so my handloads run about $11/100 rounds. Plus, I get to load the ammo exactly the way I want it. Light target loads to hunting loads and everything in between.

CDW4ME
11-29-2011, 21:29
How much you save depends on the caliber, the comparable factory loaded ammunition, and components you use.

If I want a 185 JHP 45 acp, the factory loaded offerings are going to be pricey. Remington 185 JHP is $40+ for a 50 round box and Hornady 185 XTP HP is nearly a $1 a round in those little 20 round boxes.
I can buy the 185 XTP bullets, new brass, primers, powder and handload a 50 round box on a single stage press in under an hour with a component cost of about $26. I am essentially paying myself about $15 an hour (tax free) to reload that ammo and my loads are of equal quality to the factory ammunition mentioned. At least I know every one of my handloads has a full powder charge, are within a certain OAL, and are taper crimped.
(I'm using only new brass in this example to keep the comparison equivalent.)
I guess it depends on how much your free time is worth, I would not do it just to save $5 or $6 a box (an hour); the opportunity cost of my free time is worth more than that. If you only shoot a couple of boxes a month on average, that's different than several boxes every weekend. Also, I reloaded more before I had kids.
If the handload was something I could not otherwise get than it would be worth it even if the savings was zero; for example, a XTP bullet combined with a Federal primer.

fx77
11-29-2011, 21:32
Go here...
http://www.10xshooters.com/calculators/index.htm

Plug in the #'s for handgun, rifle and shotshell an U can figure it out

But first know that your break even point is after you have paid for the loading equipment

tobias boon
11-30-2011, 11:49
I save quite a bit reloading 45 colt. I only reload them one at a time with the Lee Classic loader so my total cost to reload for it has been cheap. I only reload for the 45 colt right now but I assume I will start loading for the 460 rowland 1911, still one at a time, once I get the 1911 off layaway. I don't reload for my 9mm at all and don't plan on it.

According to that reloading calculator I spend about $7 per 50.???

fredj338
11-30-2011, 13:55
You won't save a single penny reloading. Anyone who tells you they save money by reloading is lying to you. Just ask them to show you the bank account with all their saved money in it. You will actually spend more money reloading as you buy more and more equipment.
.

There are always two ways to look at things, but you are wrong VA, you do save money on ever round you reload vs buying the equiv factory ammo, fact. Whether you choose to shoot more or spend it on booze & women like Jack does, it is what it is.
To the OP, yes, buying in some bulk, you can reload most calibers for 1/2 of CHEAP factory ammo. For semi exotics, 10mm, all the magnum, etc, you can save as much as 66% over factory. You often have better ammo too.

DWARREN123
11-30-2011, 15:21
I save nothing, in fact I spend more but I do shoot alot more and it is very good ammo made for my handguns. :tongueout:

TPK
11-30-2011, 15:27
I don't know what prices are like down South of me .. I shoot 500 S&W and I save money re-loading. Another expensive one I re-load for is .410. Up here a box of .410 runs in excess of $18. Oh ya, can't forget my .308 Norma Mag, not that it's terribly expensive (though it's close) it's more an availability thing (mind you so is the 500 ...).

Roering
11-30-2011, 16:51
You don't save at all, you just shoot more.

fredj338
11-30-2011, 20:59
You don't save at all, you just shoot more.

:yawn:Maybe, maybe not. I used to shoot about 3K/m, now I am down to about 500/m. My gear was paid for some 20yrs ago, so yeah, I save a lot on reloading. Consider 500rds of 45acp @ crap Wolf ammo prices & that still would cost me $180/m & my handloads are easily half that.:dunno:

gadgetnut259
12-01-2011, 05:53
You won't save a single penny reloading. Anyone who tells you they save money by reloading is lying to you.
Exactly! It's a hobby. You get sucked in to it and there is always a new piece of equipment you just have to get. You don't buy a bass boat to save money on the price of fish.

Tiro Fijo
12-01-2011, 10:06
Exactly! It's a hobby. You get sucked in to it and there is always a new piece of equipment you just have to get. You don't buy a bass boat to save money on the price of fish.


:rofl:

Or a Ferrari to date girls from a trailer park!! :supergrin:

vafish
12-01-2011, 13:31
There are always two ways to look at things, but you are wrong VA, you do save money on ever round you reload vs buying the equiv factory ammo, fact. Whether you choose to shoot more or spend it on booze & women like Jack does, it is what it is.
To the OP, yes, buying in some bulk, you can reload most calibers for 1/2 of CHEAP factory ammo. For semi exotics, 10mm, all the magnum, etc, you can save as much as 66% over factory. You often have better ammo too.

Show me the money in your bank account that you saved.

It's just like my wife coming.home from the store with a new pair of shoes she.bought that was marked 50% off and telling me.how much money she.saved on the shoes. She didn't save anything, she might have spent a little less then she would have but she wouldn't have nought them at all if they weren't on sale.

If you were buying and shooting 3,000 rounds of ammo a.month, then you start hand loading and continue to load
Tand shoot 3,000 rounds a month, then yes you can save money if you don't spend the money on something else.

But that isn't the way it.happens. the way it happens is you are shooting 200 rounds a month, complain about the cost of ammo, spend several hundred dollars on reloading equipment, spend even more on components, now you are shooting 500 rounds a month for the same price you used to shoot 200 rounds, but the press you bought is too slow so you spend another several hundred dollars on a progressive press and more components, need to rei some new bullets out, ect... Now you can crank out 1,000 rounds a .month, but you are spending more then you did when you shot 200 rounds a month.

So you are spending more and think, gee of I start casting my own bullets from scrap wheel weights o could save money. So you spend several hundred dollars on bullet casting supplies. You are now casting cheap bullets and loading 2,000 rounds a month for what 200 rounds used to cost.you.

You are still spending the same amount on components that you used to spend on ammo, but you also spent several thousand on equipment.

The only advantage is you now have a huge pile of ammo that you have no time to go shoot because you spent all your spare time at the loading bench.

It costs you less to load a round then it does to buy a similar round. But you still spend every penny you have in the end.

So show me.the money you saved.

fredj338
12-01-2011, 14:39
Show me the money in your bank account that you saved.

It's just like my wife coming.home from the store with a new pair of shoes she.bought that was marked 50% off and telling me.how much money she.saved on the shoes. She didn't save anything, she might have spent a little less then she would have but she wouldn't have nought them at all if they weren't on sale.
So show me.the money you saved.

Oh there is quite a bit more money in my account since I started reloading. It's pretty easy VA; add up the number of rounds you have fired over say 20yrs. Now compare factory ammo cost vs reloaded, that will be the extra money I have SAVED vs shooting factory ammo. So that money gets invested, spent on my house, wife, kids, whatever. Saying reloading doesn't save you $$ per round is like the liberals saying unemployement money is the best bang for the $$ to stimulate the economy. Just isn't true.

dkf
12-01-2011, 15:08
Of course you can keep progressing and getting into reloading more and more if you want to. My dad and I loaded thousands upon thousands of 12ga loads on a used MEC. Had to buy a shot bar and some powder bushings to get started and obviously components but we saved quite a bit of money vs buying factory loads over the years. Shotgun components are a lot higher now than they used to be and I haven't bought components in almost a decade so the diff may not be what it used to be. In my case I saved a lot.

vafish
12-01-2011, 15:31
Oh there is quite a bit more money in my account since I started reloading. It's pretty easy VA; add up the number of rounds you have fired over say 20yrs. Now compare factory ammo cost vs reloaded, that will be the extra money I have SAVED vs shooting factory ammo. So that money gets invested, spent on my house, wife, kids, whatever. Saying reloading doesn't save you $$ per round is like the liberals saying unemployement money is the best bang for the $$ to stimulate the economy. Just isn't true.

Price per round when reloading is cheaper I agree and I have never said otherwise.

But in total dollars spent you will spend more money reloading. You will also get to shoot a whole lot more.
Anywhere from two to ten times more.

nrabnf
12-01-2011, 15:53
I save some, especially shooting the AR...'bout 500 rounds a week. Probably a little
less than a wash dollarwise but my ammo is far superior to any that I could buy.
I don't think I could justify loading for the pistols, expecially the 40. However I do
load the .357 and .44 as I've got the time on my hands. If I didn't enjoy loading I
definitely wouldn't do it as I think it's closer to a wash than a savings...especially
using high end components. Just my .02

smokeross
12-01-2011, 15:57
Once you start reloading, you will be more inclined to pick up obsolete calibers since you can now 'roll your own' for them. I love my old lever guns and old revolvers. When was the last time you saw a couple hundred rounds of .41 Long Colt for sale at your LGS. I shoot mine all the time. YeeHaw.

RWBlue
12-01-2011, 16:28
You won't save a single penny reloading. Anyone who tells you they save money by reloading is lying to you. Just ask them to show you the bank account with all their saved money in it. You will actually spend more money reloading as you buy more and more equipment.

However, you will get to shoot a lot more for the same amount of money.
.

+1

and you will know more about ballistics.

Gunnut 45/454
12-01-2011, 17:03
Easy about 50-70% over factory! Cause I cast bullets for every thing so basically only thing I pay for is Primers/Powder! I got all the brass I'll need for years, and 500 lbs+ of lead! And I can always get more -FREE!

SCmasterblaster
12-01-2011, 18:55
I make ammunition that I cannot buy - .45 ACP with 255-gr SWCs. Great for pin-shooting.

Tiro Fijo
12-01-2011, 20:52
And where the rubber really meets the road is when you start casting. When you fire a bullet that you made with your own reload and hit the X ring....................PRICELESS.

ithaca_deerslayer
12-02-2011, 09:11
You won't save a single penny reloading. Anyone who tells you they save money by reloading is lying to you. Just ask them to show you the bank account with all their saved money in it. You will actually spend more money reloading as you buy more and more equipment.

However, you will get to shoot a lot more for the same amount of money.

I cast my own bullets from scrap lead for the .38 special and .45 ACP. Only cost is powder, primers, and my time. Not counting my time it's about 3.5 cents per round. Not counting my time I can load .30-06 for about 25 cents per round.

But no one factors in the time they spend. If I worked instead of sitting home casting bullets it would be cheaper for me to buy ammo. But I enjoy reloading as a hobby. It's also the only way to enjoy wild cat calibers like my .25-223 or old calibers like my .300 Savage. Another advantage to casting your own bullets is you just need a stash of powder and primers and you don't have to worry about ammo shortages any more.

Vafish, that is one of the best posts I've ever read on GT :)

I do not reload. I'd be rich if I had a nickle for every time someone asked me if I reloaded :rofl:

I give my brass away to those who do reload. Sometimes they give me a few boxes of reloaded ammo, but I don't expect it. Nor do I really want it. Chances are it shoots to a different point of aim than my factory stuff.

Instead, I buy ammo by the case. I'm very particular about the brand, type, grains, etc. I know what works in what guns, and what shoots to what point of aim, and what groups well. And that's the stuff I buy.

Sure, to you reloaders, it is a great hobby and you doing something cool. No doubt about that. But I really appreciate Vafish's honesty on this subject.

:)

Gunnut 45/454
12-02-2011, 11:01
vafish
I don't consider the "Time" it takes to reload! Do you factor the time as a cost when you go shoot? Clean your guns? Take your targets out to set up? This is really a non factor in the cost of reloading. It would be if you were selling your reloads, not when you shoot your own! Using your model then if you buy ammo you have to factor the time it takes you to get to the store/buy online, gas, insurance for vehicle, taxes paid etc. in the cost of factory ammo which only increases the savings of reloading! Anyway you look at it reloading is way cheaper!:supergrin:

vafish
12-03-2011, 20:50
vafish
I don't consider the "Time" it takes to reload! Do you factor the time as a cost when you go shoot? Clean your guns? Take your targets out to set up? This is really a non factor in the cost of reloading. It would be if you were selling your reloads, not when you shoot your own! Using your model then if you buy ammo you have to factor the time it takes you to get to the store/buy online, gas, insurance for vehicle, taxes paid etc. in the cost of factory ammo which only increases the savings of reloading! Anyway you look at it reloading is way cheaper!:supergrin:

Time is money. You are only given a finite amount of time in this world. You can choose to spend you time making money or enjoying life (unless you happen to be one of those lucky people that loves what they do for their job but then you still have to choose between time spent on your job and time spent in other activities)

If the only reason you are reloading is to save money you need to factor in your time as part of the equation. Because you could be working making money instead of reloading. In other words reloading only for money savings is work.

As for factoring in time to buy ammo, you are correct, unless I buy on line and have UPS bring it to my door step.

Now if you are reloading because you enjoy it as a hobby, then the time you spend is your leisure time, just like going fishing or sitting on the beach. Sitting at the reloading bench is an enjoyable experience for many of us.

For me reloading is a hobby, I enjoy making my own ammo including casting my own bullets. So I don't include my time spent in calculations on how much it costs me to load a box of ammo.

One other thing to consider about time, money, and reloading. The more money you spend on reloading equipment, the more time you can save. An $89 Lee anniversary kit will get you loading ammo. But it will be slow. Probably 50-100 rounds an hour depending on what steps you take in case preparation. Spend more on a progressive press and you can get up to 500 rounds an hour. Buy the auto case and bullet feeders and you might be able to double that rate. Spend a whole lot of money on an automated commercial machine and you can save all sorts of time.

And again I think you are missing my point.

Everyone talks about the money they save reloading. On a per round cost reloaded ammo is cheaper then buying ammo. But in a total dollars spent; once you get into the hobby of reloading you will spend a lot more money then if you had just kept buying a box of ammo here and there going out shooting. You will get to shoot a lot more, you will get better ammo that is tuned to your gun, you can get ammo that you can't buy elsewhere, you can make all the pistol ammo you can shoot that you can't legally buy because you are under 21, and a ton of other advantages to reloading.

Any of you guys out there reloading saying you save money, take an honest look at how much you spent in total on ammo before you started reloading and compare it with how much you spend now on reloading equipment and supplies. The vast majority of you will be spending more money in total after you started reloading.

PlasticGuy
12-04-2011, 00:24
You won't save a single penny reloading. Anyone who tells you they save money by reloading is lying to you...

However, you will get to shoot a lot more for the same amount of money.
Exactly.

Tiro Fijo
12-04-2011, 00:56
As long as you fellas are at it, tell me something. Which is cheaper, a wife or a girlfriend?


:rofl: :clown:

vafish
12-04-2011, 10:23
As long as you fellas are at it, tell me something. Which is cheaper, a wife or a girlfriend?


:rofl: :clown:

If it Flys, Floats or F's, you are better off renting it. :tongueout:

RWBlue
12-04-2011, 11:05
As long as you fellas are at it, tell me something. Which is cheaper, a wife or a girlfriend?


:rofl: :clown:

I think it depends on the women. Either one could be cheaper.

As a technical guy all I can tell you is if you have upgraded girlfriend of any version to wife v1, you should not try to run girlfriend any version or it will cost you half of everything.

fredj338
12-04-2011, 16:41
Vafish, that is one of the best posts I've ever read on GT :)
Sure, to you reloaders, it is a great hobby and you doing something cool. No doubt about that. But I really appreciate Vafish's honesty on this subject.

:)

It's not honesty, it's his perception. I outlined how much I "save" shooting my ammo every month. It's simple math. You may or may not shoot more, but the amount you spend on ammo will be less if you reload. That is just not debatable.:dunno:
Even factoring in time, you save money. Just buy a more expensive progressive. I can reload an honest 700rds/hr of 45acp on my 650. Using factory bought FMJ, I save a min of $10/50 or $140 for my hours work. Even if you double the time for doing any of the other chores of reloading like filling primer tubes or sorting brass, etc, that is still $70/hr. Consider that is net, you would have to make about $110/hr gross to get a $70/hr net after taxes. Yeah, it's worth most peoples time to reload, unless you make $220K a year & I don't. Shoot lead bullets, even commercial cast, & you are saving about $12/50 or $168/hr. Yes, if you are a serious shooter, even your time is worth it for reloading your own ammo & it's going to be better ammo than the really cheap stuff many guys are buying to "save" money shooting. We won't even talk about convenience & availability, reloading has it all over factory there too.

CDW4ME
12-11-2011, 07:04
How much you save depends on the caliber, the comparable factory loaded ammunition, and components you use.

If I want a 185 JHP 45 acp, the factory loaded offerings are going to be pricey. Remington 185 JHP is $40+ for a 50 round box and Hornady 185 XTP HP is nearly a $1 a round in those little 20 round boxes.
I can buy the 185 XTP bullets, new brass, primers, powder and handload a 50 round box on a single stage press in under an hour with a component cost of about $26. I am essentially paying myself about $15 an hour (tax free) to reload that ammo and my loads are of equal quality to the factory ammunition mentioned. At least I know every one of my handloads has a full powder charge, are within a certain OAL, and are taper crimped.
(I'm using only new brass in this example to keep the comparison equivalent.)


Ditto this ^ for 10mm.

I'll have about $24 cost (new components only) for 50 rounds of 10mm XTP hollow point.
In the little 20 round boxes those would cost about $100 for 100 rounds vs $48 using my labor.
I'm paying myself about $24 an hour to handload that ammo per 50 round box, which IS worth it to me. (I've got a progressive press, but reverted to the single stage).

BOOSTED12A
12-11-2011, 21:16
some one already mentioned it, availability is a big reason. 45 SUPER is the perfect example. i never really shot a whole lot. mabe 300rnds or so once a month. i go through a lot more than that now. as for time spent could be spent making money. some of us dont get extra money for staying at work 12 hours a day so the less im there the better. i enjoy my job but there are other things i would rather do. reload, shoot, work on cars, put more miles on my bike, work on the house. i could go on and on. in the short term you do not save money but in the long term you save money and better your skills cause you get more trigger time.

boone10
12-12-2011, 12:27
I've recently asked the same question as the OP is asking to my (honest) reloading buddies. Like others have stated, it simply comes down to how much AND what caliber you shoot.

I've gotten rid of all of my oddball or expensive caliber guns so I mostly shoot 9mm and .38 stuff. Currently (and for well over a year now) the local LGS sells Rem. UMC 115 gr. 9mm for $8.99 per box. The same in .38 is $13.99. At those prices it would take quite a while to "break even". As far as rifle loads, I mostly use the surplus rounds in my .223 and AGAIN would take considerable time to get back into the "black".

I'm busier than I've ever been in my life and (like some have mentioned) I just can't justify what little free time that I have sitting at a reloading bench--especially for common, inexpensive calibers.

I still feel certain that I will reload in the future--just can't justify the time and initial expense right now.

fredj338
12-12-2011, 13:48
I've recently asked the same question as the OP is asking to my (honest) reloading buddies. Like others have stated, it simply comes down to how much AND what caliber you shoot.

I've gotten rid of all of my oddball or expensive caliber guns so I mostly shoot 9mm and .38 stuff. Currently (and for well over a year now) the local LGS sells Rem. UMC 115 gr. 9mm for $8.99 per box. The same in .38 is $13.99. At those prices it would take quite a while to "break even". As far as rifle loads, I mostly use the surplus rounds in my .223 and AGAIN would take considerable time to get back into the "black".

I'm busier than I've ever been in my life and (like some have mentioned) I just can't justify what little free time that I have sitting at a reloading bench--especially for common, inexpensive calibers.

I still feel certain that I will reload in the future--just can't justify the time and initial expense right now.
Again, it's about time vs money. If you don't have time, buy better gear. At $18/100 in 9mm, you would save $8/100 reloading. Yes, not a lot, but at 700rds/hr min. on a 650, that is $56/hr. in savings. So if you make say $85/hr, then it isn't worth your time. I don't know many guys making $177K/yr.
At that rate of return, it would take you 10K rds of 9mm to recover your equip cost. So looking at it another way, after you shoot 10k rds of factory cheap 9mm, you have nothing but a dirty gun. After shooting the same 10k handloads, your gun is still dirty, but you paid for your reloading setup.:dunno: I just don't see the downside to reloading for ANY shooter that shoots a lot.

boone10
12-12-2011, 14:09
Again, it's about time vs money. If you don't have time, buy better gear. At $18/100 in 9mm, you would save $8/100 reloading. Yes, not a lot, but at 700rds/hr min. on a 650, that is $56/hr. in savings. So if you make say $85/hr, then it isn't worth your time. I don't know many guys making $177K/yr.
At that rate of return, it would take you 10K rds of 9mm to recover your equip cost. So looking at it another way, after you shoot 10k rds of factory cheap 9mm, you have nothing but a dirty gun. After shooting the same 10k handloads, your gun is still dirty, but you paid for your reloading setup.:dunno: I just don't see the downside to reloading for ANY shooter that shoots a lot.


Not being a smart*****, but Thank You for helping make up my mind with your math. I won't be buying a reloader anytime soon. I may shoot 2000 rounds of 9mm this upcoming year, but factor in other calibers and it may be more like 1500.

I know several folks that shoot as their ONLY hobby. They may go through 10k in a year's time, but I've got several other irons in the fire and ain't even on the same planet with that kind of "trigger time". My kids and I do run through several bricks of .22 each year.:supergrin:

Tiro Fijo
12-12-2011, 17:37
Again, it's about time vs money...


And toss in fear of the unknown and for some it's just plain laziness.

My other theory is that many read of the "kabooms" on the Internet & get scared. Most mistakes are made by neophyte reloaders who never learned the basics on a single stage press. They go buy a top of the line Dillon progressive and then think they will put the Big Three out of business. :upeyes: They start crankin' out ammo and know nothing of powder bridging, etc., etc. A lethal cocktail for sure.

RWBlue
12-12-2011, 19:43
And toss in fear of the unknown and for some it's just plain laziness.

My other theory is that many read of the "kabooms" on the Internet & get scared. Most mistakes are made by neophyte reloaders who never learned the basics on a single stage press. They go buy a top of the line Dillon progressive and then think they will put the Big Three out of business. :upeyes: They start crankin' out ammo and know nothing of powder bridging, etc., etc. A lethal cocktail for sure.

Yes, that and reloaders who go off book.

toshbar
12-12-2011, 20:14
In college loading .40sw for 5 cents/round. :tongueout:

It's really the only way I can afford to shoot 1k rds/mo or so. I paid $300 for $800 worth of 'used'(basically new) equipment, sold what I didn't need, and effectively have $0 in my loading equip. I broke even the day I sold the Lyman DPS-3 and the turret press. :banana:

I have more time than money anyway.

fredj338
12-12-2011, 21:04
Yes, that and reloaders who go off book.

Unfortunately, many reloaders are loading "off the book" & don't even recognize it. Plated are NOT FMJ, lead are not plated, etc. Few reloaders are truely loading directly from data in a loading manual, it's just not practical or economical. That is where tje learning curve is, extrapolating data for components NOT used in most manuals.

Tiro Fijo
12-13-2011, 00:34
Unfortunately, many reloaders are loading "off the book" & don't even recognize it. Plated are NOT FMJ, lead are not plated, etc. Few reloaders are truely loading directly from data in a loading manual, it's just not practical or economical. That is where tje learning curve is, extrapolating data for components NOT used in most manuals.


The only time I go "rogue" in a handgun is with the Skeeter Skelton load of 7.5 gr. Unique under a 250 gr. SWC which according to all new manuals is way over max. It wasn't 45 yrs ago mind you, but that was before the proliferation of Charter Arms Bulldogs and other assorted Taurus & Rossi revolvers. I ONLY shoot this load in a Ruger and NEVER in my S&W 696 as it would beat the timing to death in no time (no pun intended).

I do think modern reloading manuals have become more conservative for two reasons:

1. Better technology, i.e., we know a helluva lot more than the old timers.

2. Many people, especially IPSC types, running DEFCON 1 type reloads in say a .38 Super and the 10mm fanatics trying to turn it into a .41 Mag.

These are two examples that come to mind.

toshbar
12-13-2011, 01:16
Who actually loads 'on the books'?

I started loading in January and I have never looked in a book. I chat it up and read others' recipes online.

ithaca_deerslayer
12-14-2011, 10:23
Not being a smart*****, but Thank You for helping make up my mind with your math. I won't be buying a reloader anytime soon. I may shoot 2000 rounds of 9mm this upcoming year, but factor in other calibers and it may be more like 1500.

I know several folks that shoot as their ONLY hobby. They may go through 10k in a year's time, but I've got several other irons in the fire and ain't even on the same planet with that kind of "trigger time". My kids and I do run through several bricks of .22 each year.:supergrin:

Put me in the same boat as you. I'm just a lightweight. 2000 rounds of centerfire ammo a year is my limit.

How can I practise piano or go skiing, if I shoot more than that? And more importantly, where would I find the time to reload all of that??? :rofl:

I respect you reloaders, but too rich for my blood :)

fredj338
12-14-2011, 10:43
Who actually loads 'on the books'?

I started loading in January and I have never looked in a book. I chat it up and read others' recipes online.

^^THIS^^ unofrtunately is how so many guys blow up guns. If you aer NOT doing your own research, you are a Darwin project waiting to happen. You just don't know who anyone is on line, what their exp level is & w/ little exp, you have no way to determine pudding from BS. Throw in typo errors, forums are a terrible place to get your reloading data IMO.:shocked:

fredj338
12-14-2011, 10:46
Put me in the same boat as you. I'm just a lightweight. 2000 rounds of centerfire ammo a year is my limit.

How can I practise piano or go skiing, if I shoot more than that? And more importantly, where would I find the time to reload all of that??? :rofl:

I respect you reloaders, but too rich for my blood :)
Again, if time is an issue, buy more expensive gear. Yes it cost more, but the gear will out live you. SO unless you are over 75 & on the way out, it's a good investment. Load on a 550B for 10yrs & sell it for what you paid. Shoot factory ammo for 10yrs & you just have a really dirty gun.:dunno:

Tiro Fijo
12-14-2011, 22:21
...SO unless you are over 75 & on the way out...


We're all on the way "out", Fred. Just today a gun co. owner/manufacturer in OK accidentally shot himself fatally while unloading an AR from his vehicle. No man knoweth the hour nor is promised the 'morrow.

fredj338
12-14-2011, 23:53
We're all on the way "out", Fred. Just today a gun co. owner/manufacturer in OK accidentally shot himself fatally while unloading an AR from his vehicle. No man knoweth the hour nor is promised the 'morrow.

Hmm, IMO, no one "accidentally" shoots anything. Negligence, yes, accident, no. Follow the basic safety rules & an "accidental" shooting will not be what sends you on your way.:sadangel:

ithaca_deerslayer
12-15-2011, 08:43
Again, if time is an issue, buy more expensive gear. Yes it cost more, but the gear will out live you. SO unless you are over 75 & on the way out, it's a good investment. Load on a 550B for 10yrs & sell it for what you paid. Shoot factory ammo for 10yrs & you just have a really dirty gun.:dunno:

My wife and I are cash players. No debt other than the house, and paying extra on that each month to get it paid off by time junior graduates from high school.

We basically order a case at a time. 9mm is the most common we shoot. We got an extra $250, and need some ammo, put in a order, and in a few days it arrives.

If we ain't got the money, then no order. Never means we shoot less, because we've always got some extra cushion of ammo laying around somewhere.

I've got a lot of ideas on what I'd like to save a up a few grand for, to buy. Quad, motorcycle, new car, maybe more guns, and probably some other things. Those are all pie in the sky dreams. Maybe could happen, but not easy.

The investment in reloading stuff would be a big purchase. And to be an efficient use of time, it'd have to be a really big purchase, right? Just don't see where that kind of cash comes from. And as Vafish pointed out in his post, if you reload more, you shoot more, and nowhere do you actually save money.

Hey, just a sudden thought, if my wife wanted to reload, that'd be different. Part of our situation is she doesn't have to work. She just does all the fulltime mom stuff, and housewife stuff. Helps us to actually be a bit frugal. She cooks from scratch so that costs less. She cuts me and junior's hair. She does all sorts of other chores, gardening, etc. If we added reloading to that list, maybe that would be a way to save money?

Gunnut 45/454
12-15-2011, 10:51
vafish
See thats my point- I have used the same setup for years - it's paid for itself ten times already. The only things I've added to my setup have been a case trimmer and a digital scale and dies set for .223 Rem. and two molds for that. My Rockchucker has been been it-don't need a progressive as I don't go out and blow a thousand rounds in a range trip.
So what I have invested is all paid for and does nothing but save me money everytime I use it! Other then buying components( Gas checks , powder , primers) I don't spend any money. I went more then 10 year with out buying a single factory round-nothing but reloads went through my guns. Unfortunately I got into AR's and that broke that streak!
But now that I have over 2000 peaces of brass for them and a couple of molds for them I might just go another ten years without buying a factory round.:supergrin:

fredj338
12-15-2011, 11:11
The investment in reloading stuff would be a big purchase. And to be an efficient use of time, it'd have to be a really big purchase, right? Just don't see where that kind of cash comes from. And as Vafish pointed out in his post, if you reload more, you shoot more, and nowhere do you actually save money.?
The falacy is in that statement, like it's concrete, like the sun comes up in the east & sets in the west.:upeyes: Reality is you shoot as much as you like. So for a frugal shooter, reloading is THE ONLY way to go. Even if you had to borrow $1000 to get into a 650, that is 4 cases of ammo & after you have shot the ammo, you have nothing but empty brass to maybe sell or trade. Between the wife & I, we used to shoot over 3K rds/m in competition, expensive 45colt stuff. She rarely shoots anymore & I am doing maybe 500rds/m. So I am not shooting more & my gear was paid for the first year of CAS. SO reality, you control how much you shoot & by reloading, you also control cost & quality. A no brainer IMO. There is perception & there is fact. Fact: you save money per round reloading, even lowly 9mm.:supergrin:

vafish
12-16-2011, 14:45
Fact: you save money per round reloading, even lowly 9mm.:supergrin:


I've never said that the per round cost wasn't cheaper.


Can you honestly tell me that of you had not started reloading you still would have been shooting 3000 rounds a month of .45 colt?

Of course you wouldn't have.

So reloading allowed you to shoot more with your disposable income.

Be honest how much did you spend per month on ammo before you began to reload and how much did you spend on reloading equipment and supplies to be make to shoot 3000 rounds per month?

fredj338
12-16-2011, 18:00
I've never said that the per round cost wasn't cheaper.


Can you honestly tell me that of you had not started reloading you still would have been shooting 3000 rounds a month of .45 colt?

Of course you wouldn't have.

So reloading allowed you to shoot more with your disposable income.

Be honest how much did you spend per month on ammo before you began to reload and how much did you spend on reloading equipment and supplies to be make to shoot 3000 rounds per month?

The point VA is NOW I do NOT shoot 3K rds a month. My gear has long since been paid for & the ammo I do shoot is a min of 50% of the $$ of factory.:dunno:
Honestly, a 550B with everything one needs to make 450rds/hr is gonna set you back less than $800 today. That is what, 4K rds of 9mm?? How can one not save money shooting their own reloaded ammo?:dunno: to not see that is just baffling to me. Like saying the govt doesn't have a spending problem but a revenue problem.:steamed: So when ever someone chimes in w/ the "you don't save you'll only shoot more", just hasn't been around long enough to find out!
So again, your per round cost is 50%-60% less than factory, depending on caliber. Your time can be negated by buying a good progressive press. With some calibers, I am paying myself to reload & at a good hourly rate! What you do with the savings between handloads & factory is up to you, but it is & always will be cheaper to reload than buy factory for any caliber, even the cheap 9mm, as long as they don't price components more than ammo..:yawn:

toshbar
12-16-2011, 19:01
It takes me $0.11 worth of components + my time to produce one round of .40sw 175swc.

This is $0.21 less than factory FMJ, which I consider to be an equivalent.

I can do 200 rounds per hour practically on my $75 lee progressive.

200rph * $0.21 = $42/hr for my time, but we have to subtract component cost per hour, so:
$42-(200rph*$0.11each = $22) .... $42 - $22 = I save $20 for every hour I reload.

$75 press / $20 saved per hour of use = Paid for itself in 3.75 hours or 750 rounds, and every hour after that = PROFIT. But where is all this money I'm 'making'?

I'll show you:
It costs me $0.11 in components plus my time, which we established was worth $42/hr based on what I save over commercial FMJ.

Components [$0.11] + Time [1/200 * $42/hr = $0.21] = $0.32, which is the same it costs to buy FMJ. Thus, I save ZERO DOLLARS.


:rofl:


All of the above doesn't matter since I'm under 21 and cannot buy pistol ammo from the store. Reloading then becomes priceless.

fredj338
12-16-2011, 20:46
It takes me $0.11 worth of components + my time to produce one round of .40sw 175swc.

This is $0.21 less than factory FMJ, which I consider to be an equivalent.

I can do 200 rounds per hour practically on my $75 lee progressive.

200rph * $0.21 = $42/hr for my time, but we have to subtract component cost per hour, so:
$42-(200rph*$0.11each = $22) .... $42 - $22 = I save $20 for every hour I reload.

$75 press / $20 saved per hour of use = Paid for itself in 3.75 hours or 750 rounds, and every hour after that = PROFIT. But where is all this money I'm 'making'?

I'll show you:
It costs me $0.11 in components plus my time, which we established was worth $42/hr based on what I save over commercial FMJ.

Components [$0.11] + Time [1/200 * $42/hr = $0.21] = $0.32, which is the same it costs to buy FMJ. Thus, I save ZERO DOLLARS.


:rofl:


All of the above doesn't matter since I'm under 21 and cannot buy pistol ammo from the store. Reloading then becomes priceless.
If your time is valubale, then you need better/faster equip. A 650 w/ case feeder is an easy 700rds/hr, 800 if you are pushing. So that would make your hourly rate 3.5-4x better return.:supergrin: Yeah, I don't save any money reloading. I wish I made $80+/hour.:upeyes:

greenlion
12-16-2011, 21:12
Show me the money in your bank account that you saved.

It's just like my wife coming.home from the store with a new pair of shoes she.bought that was marked 50% off and telling me.how much money she.saved on the shoes. She didn't save anything, she might have spent a little less then she would have but she wouldn't have nought them at all if they weren't on sale.

If you were buying and shooting 3,000 rounds of ammo a.month, then you start hand loading and continue to load
Tand shoot 3,000 rounds a month, then yes you can save money if you don't spend the money on something else.

But that isn't the way it.happens. the way it happens is you are shooting 200 rounds a month, complain about the cost of ammo, spend several hundred dollars on reloading equipment, spend even more on components, now you are shooting 500 rounds a month for the same price you used to shoot 200 rounds, but the press you bought is too slow so you spend another several hundred dollars on a progressive press and more components, need to rei some new bullets out, ect... Now you can crank out 1,000 rounds a .month, but you are spending more then you did when you shot 200 rounds a month.

So you are spending more and think, gee of I start casting my own bullets from scrap wheel weights o could save money. So you spend several hundred dollars on bullet casting supplies. You are now casting cheap bullets and loading 2,000 rounds a month for what 200 rounds used to cost.you.

You are still spending the same amount on components that you used to spend on ammo, but you also spent several thousand on equipment.

The only advantage is you now have a huge pile of ammo that you have no time to go shoot because you spent all your spare time at the loading bench.

It costs you less to load a round then it does to buy a similar round. But you still spend every penny you have in the end.

So show me.the money you saved.

No-one has to show you their bank account to prove you wrong. Your logic is flawed to begin with. You are committing a Non-Sequitur (does not follow)logical fallacy. For example: When it rains, the sidewalk is wet. The sidewalk is wet, therefore it MUST be raining. The conclusion does not have to follow from that premise. The sidewalk could be wet because someone is watering their flowers.

It is true that someone who reloads spends as much as someone who does not reload ONLY if they happen to spend as much as someone who does not that month. If the reloader and non-reloader both shoot 400 rounds this month, the reloader will have spent less. A lot of us have owned our reloading equipment for 30+ years, so it has paid for itself many times over already.

Tiro Fijo
12-17-2011, 00:00
Tell ya what, I'll reload for all of you for a month if you let this thread die a quick death!! :upeyes:


:supergrin: :rofl:

RWBlue
12-17-2011, 09:46
Tell ya what, I'll reload for all of you for a month if you let this thread die a quick death!! :upeyes:


:supergrin: :rofl:

Never shoot any one elses' reloads unless they are licensed and insured.

How about you just ship me the components and I will reload for myself?

pureshot78
12-17-2011, 10:08
Exactly.

There are two ways to look at it.

1. You will shoot more for the same amount of money.

2. You shoot the same number of rounds for less money.

The "you don't save money" comments assume a fixed shooting budget.
That may be true for a lot of GTers but not everyone reloads so they can shoot more.

Sent from my Nexus One

Jerry36
12-17-2011, 20:41
Interesting that with all the calculations in this thread, no one has factored in the value of brass to the non-reloader. I'm in the camp that reloading is a hobby. I will likely get a very basic set up some day to handle my 44mag. For what I shoot the most of (9mm & .45acp), I buy in bulk and get the best price I can get. What else I do, however, is SAVE MY BRASS. I can't believe how many people leave their brass at the range. I pick mine up and have thousands of once shot brass cases. At some point I will sell them and that will reduce my net cost of buying factory ammo. I don't dream that it will get me even with reloading, but it will reduce the cost of buying factory loads and will do so for very little effort.

toshbar - the reason you save zero dollars is because your calculation is circular. You may save $42 per hour while reloading, but that doesn't make your time worth $42 per hour. Your time is worth what you could make doing something else.

toshbar
12-18-2011, 00:22
toshbar - the reason you save zero dollars is because your calculation is circular.
I was wondering if anyone would catch that. :whistling:

fredj338
12-18-2011, 12:42
Interesting that with all the calculations in this thread, no one has factored in the value of brass to the non-reloader. I'm in the camp that reloading is a hobby. I will likely get a very basic set up some day to handle my 44mag. For what I shoot the most of (9mm & .45acp), I buy in bulk and get the best price I can get. What else I do, however, is SAVE MY BRASS. I can't believe how many people leave their brass at the range. I pick mine up and have thousands of once shot brass cases. At some point I will sell them and that will reduce my net cost of buying factory ammo. I don't dream that it will get me even with reloading, but it will reduce the cost of buying factory loads and will do so for very little effort.

toshbar - the reason you save zero dollars is because your calculation is circular. You may save $42 per hour while reloading, but that doesn't make your time worth $42 per hour. Your time is worth what you could make doing something else.

I don;t factor brass as it's almost a non cost if you are using the saved brass from your factory ammo, as you should, or if buying once fired & amortizing it over 10x reloads, it comes out to less than 1c/case.
As to the time issue, that is a false assumption. If I work & make $40/hr, my net take home is closer to $24/hr. In order for reloading to NOT be cost effective or save me money, it would have to take me more hours than I can spend working to make the equiv amount of money. So it's not circular at all, it's just perception. In the case of reloading, perception is reality.
I could spend an hour @ work making $24 net to buy 100rds of 9mm or I could spend an hour reloading 700rds of 9mm. In order for me to buy 700rds of 9mm, I would have to work 5 1/2 hrs+! So is it more cost effective to work the 6hrs or reload for 1?? The savings is obvious, even for a public schooled & math challenged individual.:whistling:

ithaca_deerslayer
12-19-2011, 11:30
What would you suggest I buy at midway usa, picking out EVERYTHING I need for reloading, considering I don't want to spend hardly anytime at all on reloading? http://www.midwayusa.com/

.380, 9mm, .38, .357, .44spl, .44mag, .223, 7-30waters,.308, .30-06, 7.62x39, .410, 20ga, 12ga

Just curious to know what such a setup would cost. To turn out about 2,000 rounds a year, in as little time as possible, as easy as possible.

Probably need an automatic brass picker uper, because right now I let the reloader guys at the club pick that up for me (they get to keep it).

There's probably some kit you'd suggest, one price for all. But I haven't a clue, so it is all greek to me when I look at reloader stuff in a catalog.

BOOSTED12A
12-19-2011, 12:26
ive heard nothing but good about dillon and they have packages that have prety much everything. with my lee press i can dribble out about 100rnds every 20 min or so, i am new at this tho

fredj338
12-19-2011, 14:28
What would you suggest I buy at midway usa, picking out EVERYTHING I need for reloading, considering I don't want to spend hardly anytime at all on reloading? http://www.midwayusa.com/

.380, 9mm, .38, .357, .44spl, .44mag, .223, 7-30waters,.308, .30-06, 7.62x39, .410, 20ga, 12ga

Just curious to know what such a setup would cost. To turn out about 2,000 rounds a year, in as little time as possible, as easy as possible.

Probably need an automatic brass picker uper, because right now I let the reloader guys at the club pick that up for me (they get to keep it).

There's probably some kit you'd suggest, one price for all. But I haven't a clue, so it is all greek to me when I look at reloader stuff in a catalog.

For a cost concious guy that only needs 2K+ rds a year, hard to beat the Lee Classic Turret. You can probably get everything for met for under $500. SG needs a diff setup. Not sure loading 7.62x39 is economical unless you have a brass supply. Most brass is berdan primed, not suitable for reloading.

Glock30Eric
12-19-2011, 14:36
You don't save at all, you just shoot more.

Exactly!! If you make your own bullets from leads, and then you'll shoot even more!! :)

dvrdwn72
12-19-2011, 14:42
I go through about 1k rounds of .40 a month. So, 1k 180 fmj shipped is $115. Primers are about $35 for 1k. Powder is $10 per 1k loads. That's roughly $160 for 1k rounds. That's least $100 or more saved. It cost roughly $250 to get the equipment to get started.

ithaca_deerslayer
12-19-2011, 15:13
For a cost concious guy that only needs 2K+ rds a year, hard to beat the Lee Classic Turret.

Wow, looks like for only $215, plus shipping, and I'd be in business?

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/785993/lee-4-hole-turret-press-with-auto-index-deluxe-kit

Or is there something different from this kit that I'd need?

toshbar
12-19-2011, 15:27
Wow, looks like for only $215, plus shipping, and I'd be in business?

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/785993/lee-4-hole-turret-press-with-auto-index-deluxe-kit

Or is there something different from this kit that I'd need?
Dies, tumbler, and media.





OTOH, I saved $400k today by not buying a boat. :tongueout:

fredj338
12-19-2011, 16:03
Wow, looks like for only $215, plus shipping, and I'd be in business?

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/785993/lee-4-hole-turret-press-with-auto-index-deluxe-kit

Or is there something different from this kit that I'd need?

You will need dies & shell plates for each claiber. Some calibers use the same sheel plate, 380 & 223, 308 & 30-06. You will need dies for each caliber. The 38/357mag is one set, the 44sp/44mag is one set. I am not a fan of the cheap Lee scale & would opt for the Dillon beam @ $55. A set of calipers & you can get started with that kit & the dies. You don't need a tumbler, yo ucan wash them in water & citric acid or lemon detergent, but they msut be 100% dry before loading.
As noted earlier, for less than $500, you can get setup for all the metallic calibers you want to load. In 9mm ammo alone, you would pay for your setup in about 1yr. Yeah, reloading doesn't save you a dime.

fredj338
12-19-2011, 16:07
I go through about 1k rounds of .40 a month. So, 1k 180 fmj shipped is $115. Primers are about $35 for 1k. Powder is $10 per 1k loads. That's roughly $160 for 1k rounds. That's least $100 or more saved. It cost roughly $250 to get the equipment to get started.
You need to buy primers in bulk, gunshows often have good deals or go w/ a friend & split the HM & order 120K from PV or Graf's. You can get primers down to $22/k, even cheaper if you buy Wolf/Tula. Powder can be cheaper ordered in at least 4# jugs when you buy primers (save the HM). Do NOT buy from Midway, they don't mix primers & powder under one HM/shipping fee.:crying:

Tiro Fijo
12-19-2011, 17:02
Fred, give up. It's like trying to convince Obama supporters that they make more money if they work and don't receive entitlements.

:rofl: :animlol:

fredj338
12-19-2011, 19:02
Fred, give up. It's like trying to convince Obama supporters that they make more money if they work and don't receive entitlements.

:rofl: :animlol:

No, it's like saying "food stamps & unemployment benefits are the best bang for the stimulative buck"! (how do liberals get by daily w/ brain power like that?) I'm telling you & don't save a dime, not one thin dime reloading my own ammo. Nope, I actually save $100s of $$ every year reloading my own. The alternative would be to work 6 add'l. hours per week to make up for the 1 hr reloading. I hate working more hours.:tongueout:

housecat
12-19-2011, 19:48
Any of you guys out there reloading saying you save money, take an honest look at how much you spent in total on ammo before you started reloading and compare it with how much you spend now on reloading equipment and supplies. The vast majority of you will be spending more money in total after you started reloading.

Really???? I use a RCBS press and kit, dies for 38/357, and a shell holder. I bought more than thirty five years ago. The only new equipment I have bought is dies for new calibers. Some shell holders are the same for different calibers, so yes, I saved money on them too. I did later buy a lead pot, molds, and a sizer/lubricator. At the rate I was shooting, these amortized themselves within two years. I don't get paid to sit in front of the tv, or do anything else around the house. Any time I spend casting or reloading is free. I can't show you bank statements to prove this, But I can show you guns, Randal Made Knives, signed first edition books, cameras, lens, and other things I bought with money I would have pissed away on shooting factory ammunition. For truth in advertising, I do buy powder, primers, lubricant for my cast bullets, and pay for electricity for the casting pot. I scrounge lead, so it is free.

To go to a ridiculous extreme, I recently paid $90.00 for a box of factory 9mm Win Mag ammo to get exact factory dimensions for reloading. I also paid $60.00 a box (more than 25 years ago) for some 8mm Nambu to shoot in my father's WWII bringback. Rationalize how I can shoot factory ammo in either of these cartridges cheaper than I can reload for them.

To hit the dead horse one more time, no I don't spend more money on powder, primers, electricity, bullet lube than I would on a much larger amount of factory ammo. Remember, the equipment has long been amortized, and my time is free.

dkf
12-19-2011, 21:01
I agree Fred. He can get an LCT with everthing he needs for WELL under $500.

I'm currently cleaning my brass with strong dishwashing detergent with a little vinegar in the mix. Cleans the brass up nice, not as good as a tumbler but more than good enough for pistol.

Definatley upgrade to the Dillon Eliminator scale (what I bought) which is the cheapest with shipping from Brian Enos. Best bang for the buck on an LCT kit is from Kempf's.(Upgrade to the "Pro" autodisk) The Lee dies come with a shellholder so need to buy it separate.

https://kempfgunshop.com//index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=630&category_id=26&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=41

ithaca_deerslayer
12-20-2011, 08:39
Do NOT buy from Midway, they don't mix primers & powder under one HM/shipping fee.:crying:

Where should I buy from?

I'd prefer to buy everything from one company, if that is possible.

fredj338
12-20-2011, 14:14
Where should I buy from?

I'd prefer to buy everything from one company, if that is possible.

Try Graf's then. They allow combined HM & they carry the LCT press kit. I would opt for the kit from Kempf's & then get your powder & primers from Graf's or PV in bulk. If you are not buying at least 5K primers & 4# of powder, it may be cheaper to buy locally. HM is $25. When looking at Graf's prices, note shipping is included +$6 for handling. Other places charge shipping, shipping always matters when pricing, that & sales tax.:steamed: