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M&P15T
12-02-2011, 09:50
I have read (and been a part of) many threads here concerning wether it's better to have optics, lasers, grips, lights etc. on rifles (for civilian use) or not, incuding hot debates on the weight these things add.

I'd just like to share an observation that all of those things can be mounted and removed whenever the user wants, so maybe we can all just decide to let each person enjoy their AR as they wish. I know that I myself mount/remove my Eotech and Surefire every now and again just for funzies, and I doubt I'm the only person that does so. Sometimes I enjoy lighter weight, and sometimes I like to have both mounted to my AR.

In the end, it's each person's choice.:supergrin:

pag23
12-02-2011, 09:56
I personally like a flashlight, optic, and RVG or VFG... iron sights or BUIS are a must in case an optic fails or is damaged.

I do agree that each person will have their own preference or need.

ancient_serpent
12-02-2011, 10:05
I think it's a little funny that "anti-tacticool" has become the new cool. Seriously, if you want a bare bones rifle that's fine, but don't get snarky at what I put on mine. EOTech, back up irons, Surefire, VFG or AFG...all serve an important purpose for what I need/want in a rifle.

STI
12-02-2011, 10:17
I use my AR daily 7 days a week, all I have on it is backup sights, used 1 time, EOT sight use all the time, extra batteries in stock, Surefire light used at night, not on rifle all the time. Thats it. I use 20 round mags mostly due to size. I really like this setup, it works for me. Its a Rock River rifle. I live in a rural area and I am out alone checking livestock daily and night also.
This rifle has been 100% for me.....

12131
12-02-2011, 10:19
Some of mine have VFG, some not. Some have optics, some not. No lights or lasers, at the moment. But, I might add some lights later. Personally, why care about what others do with theirs firearms? I don't get it.:dunno:

pag23
12-02-2011, 10:25
This is a good discussion as everyone will have a different use/choice on what they prefer. 12131 I don't blame you, it doesn't matter to me what is on somebody else's AR, but I might pick up some tips for myself on what to try or what might work or not work...

HAIL CAESAR
12-02-2011, 10:29
My favorite rifle (right now) is a LW 14.5 with a T1 and light. The light is mounted on a MOE handguard.

Gunnut 45/454
12-02-2011, 10:29
It all comes down to how you envission that the rifle will be employed! For most of us they will be employed at the range maybe a class which might include a night time shoot!
So having all the extra gear hanging off the rails is pointless! Now if your a SWAT/LEO and it rides in your go bag in your trunk then by all means hang what ever you think you need to do your job! I have one AR thats KISS- mainly a range gun, I have one coming that will become my main SD/HD AR with optic maybe it will get a light later.:supergrin:

mjkeat
12-02-2011, 11:10
I like an optic, BUIS, and light.

Sometimes when shooting 3gun I'll remove the light. Other than that everything stays put.

MrMurphy
12-02-2011, 11:38
In my case, there is no 'envisioning'. Spending 3 years clearing buildings for a living means every piece on the rifle is there for a purpose and it's been tested many times.

Optic: Not an option.

Sling: Same.

Light: Definitely not an option..... being in a dark building at night without one, or a dark building interior in broad daylight, sucks giant sweaty donkey nuts. Been there, done that.

VFG: Have run with and without, in my case, prefer with.

If someone mentions KISS to me, i consider them to either be:
1. Dumb
2. Uneducated or
3. Untrained
and possibly
4. Building a memorial/museum piece/exact repro i.e "This is what I carried in 1991 in the Gulf" which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

The only thing that ever comes off the gun is occasionally one of the lights. And not often.

HAIL CAESAR
12-02-2011, 12:26
Ok, I forgot my rifles have BUIS and slings.

I too used to actually use a rifle at work. My idea for "KISS" is to actually only put on doodads that you actually need. Not hang every hunk of sheet that is new and popular.

jrs93accord
12-02-2011, 12:39
The 19 ARs I have are all a bit different. Some have all the bells and whistles, while others are fairly basic. I all depends on what the user wants.

HAIL CAESAR
12-02-2011, 13:37
Yeap, everyone's 'mission" is different. That is for sure.

jwhite75
12-02-2011, 13:53
I have a KISS theory to tactical shotguns and AR rifles. It goes like this..."light and a sight".

On an AR all 95% of people will need is a light for target ID if used for HD, and a RDS w BUIS.

Just like most shotgun owners only need a good 18.5-20" shotgun with the ammo on board and possibly a WML for Target ID. If you have to reload a shot gun in an HD situation form a side saddle or other source you are above your pay grade and in real trouble.

arclight610
12-02-2011, 14:26
Alot of Marine units were still running A2's during the beginning of Afghanistan/Iraq. Not every unit had A4's yet, let alone ACOGS. They seemed to just fine. I think its more about training than anything.

american lockpicker
12-02-2011, 14:44
I think a bayonet is necessary for me as I may not always have ammo.

silvrevo
12-02-2011, 14:54
Its all fun Detroit Lions guy,, dont let anyone rain on your parade,, cause its your parade....yeaaaaaaaa

Im putting my Surefire X300 on asap,,, I used this on my G19, but sold that Glock.

silvrevo
12-02-2011, 14:57
The 19 ARs I have are all a bit different. Some have all the bells and whistles, while others are fairly basic. I all depends on what the user wants.

I glad to see you only have 19,,, as 20 would be way way way too many!:cool:

pleaforwar
12-02-2011, 15:10
Alot of Marine units were still running A2's during the beginning of Afghanistan/Iraq. Not every unit had A4's yet, let alone ACOGS. They seemed to just fine. I think its more about training than anything.


Having been in the Marine Corps during this time, and being issued a M16A2 and a bare bones M4, I can tell you I spent every minute wishing I had a rifle with the aforementioned necessities (light, quality optic).

I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, but your comment is akin to saying that Garands worked before, Springfields worked before, etc etc. Defensive and combat shooting has evolved, and I see no need to handicap myself for the sake of nostalgia.

faawrenchbndr
12-02-2011, 15:12
My Adams Arms piston upper/BCM lower 14.5 with a Comp M2 a TLR-1
& Larue FUG.

K. Foster
12-02-2011, 17:00
My AR’s serve many purposes, hunting, plinking, training and defense. They are set up accordingly. For personal defense, a light, sling and optic are must haves. Saving weight is important but a better way to do that then removing lights and optics is by choosing lightweight barrels, stocks and hand guards.

WoodenPlank
12-02-2011, 17:23
Ok, I forgot my rifles have BUIS and slings.

I too used to actually use a rifle at work. My idea for "KISS" is to actually only put on doodads that you actually need. Not hang every hunk of sheet that is new and popular.

Exactly.

My ARís serve many purposes, hunting, plinking, training and defense. They are set up accordingly. For personal defense, a light, sling and optic are must haves. Saving weight is important but a better way to do that then removing lights and optics is by choosing lightweight barrels, stocks and hand guards.

This, too.

Surefire 600 Scout light, Aimpoint M2, Troy BUIS, and (if I'm feeling frisky) a TD stubby vertical grip. I have thought about picking up a rail mounted laser, but solely for S&Gs/personal entertainment.

RyanNREMTP
12-02-2011, 17:41
I like all ARs, doesn't matter what is on them.

Glockdude1
12-02-2011, 17:44
VFG and a light is all I like to have on a AR.

:cool:

21/4life
12-02-2011, 17:49
I think it's a little funny that "anti-tacticool" has become the new cool. Seriously, if you want a bare bones rifle that's fine, but don't get snarky at what I put on mine. EOTech, back up irons, Surefire, VFG or AFG...all serve an important purpose for what I need/want in a rifle.

I am pretty new to ARs, so here goes what is a VFG and AFG?

mjkeat
12-02-2011, 17:50
In my case, there is no 'envisioning'. Spending 3 years clearing buildings for a living means every piece on the rifle is there for a purpose and it's been tested many times.


I feel very similarly for I'm sure are basically the same reasons.

I will say that I do have 2 or 3 firearms for defensive situations and the rest are for "fun". The "fun" stuff came after I felt the defensive role had been properly filled.

It took a while to get over the thought that every firearm in the safe had to fill that defensive role.

mvician
12-02-2011, 18:38
I am pretty new to ARs, so here goes what is a VFG and AFG?

VFG = Vertical Foregrip

AFG = Angled Foregrip (Magpul)

liberty911
12-02-2011, 19:42
Having been in the Marine Corps during this time, and being issued a M16A2 and a bare bones M4, I can tell you I spent every minute wishing I had a rifle with the aforementioned necessities (light, quality optic).

I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, but your comment is akin to saying that Garands worked before, Springfields worked before, etc etc. Defensive and combat shooting has evolved, and I see no need to handicap myself for the sake of nostalgia.

Agreed!!!

Having jumped out of helicopters with "muskets" and m4's, as well as bare bones and fully equipped, I can tell you that just because something works doesn't mean it's the best for every situation. I prefer having everything and stripping stuff off for mission specific needs. Then again, I've been a happy civilian for a little over a year now, so it's just all about what I want to play with.

series1811
12-02-2011, 19:49
I have read (and been a part of) many threads here concerning wether it's better to have optics, lasers, grips, lights etc. on rifles (for civilian use) or not, incuding hot debates on the weight these things add.

I'd just like to share an observation that all of those things can be mounted and removed whenever the user wants, so maybe we can all just decide to let each person enjoy their AR as they wish. I know that I myself mount/remove my Eotech and Surefire every now and again just for funzies, and I doubt I'm the only person that does so. Sometimes I enjoy lighter weight, and sometimes I like to have both mounted to my AR.

In the end, it's each person's choice.:supergrin:

On every AR I've had, I must have moved the lights, the pigtail pressure switch, the front T grip, the sling, and the Eotech/Aimpoint around about two dozen times before I finally got mine exactly where I liked them. That's what all those rails are for, right? Individual preference? :supergrin:

The one accessory I never got that I really wanted to have was a bayonet. :supergrin:

Glocker1984
12-02-2011, 19:58
My Patrol Rifle Accessories:

Eotach Optic
BUIS
Sling
Magpul MOE Handguard and VFG
Surefire G2 Light mounted on Handguard
Fed with Magpul 30rd PMags

Simple, Fairly light, and gets the job done! :wavey:

MadMonkey
12-02-2011, 20:07
I see no need to handicap myself for the sake of nostalgia.

Very well said :cool:

samuse
12-02-2011, 21:04
This does it for me.

Works well in the light and dark, left and right hand.

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab76/sammuse/AR-Colt/100_0902.jpg

Andrewsky
12-02-2011, 21:57
If KISS + training is better than Aimpoint + Surefire with less training, then I'm left wondering how one trains oneself to see in the dark...

AK_Stick
12-02-2011, 23:38
Alot of Marine units were still running A2's during the beginning of Afghanistan/Iraq. Not every unit had A4's yet, let alone ACOGS. They seemed to just fine. I think its more about training than anything.



No. Units running A2's made due. We did not do fine.


I was one of them. It sucked.

Cole125
12-03-2011, 00:01
Who ever thinks having a optic is "bad" is smoking something.

In my opinion a optic is a MUST have on a AR, red dots just make quick accurate shooting much easer, tactical scopes are even better.

For a HD AR15 a flashlight is also a must!

I have it all on my AR, flashlight, laser, scope and a red dot! Burris AR-332(pretty much a battery powered ACOG), Fastfire red dot, Streamlight TRL-2 flashlight/laser combo.

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm245/jcole_08/troyrail.jpg

4TS&W
12-03-2011, 00:03
Cool thread... I am in the market for optics. Considering eotech, aimpoint, and Trij acog, but damn those acogs are pricey!

I picked up AFG, VFG, BUIS..

Will probably consider lights/lasers later... nobody seems to use lasers that much...

Any suggestions for AR accessory suppliers would be appreciated!

Glocker1984
12-03-2011, 02:05
Cool thread... I am in the market for optics. Considering eotech, aimpoint, and Trij acog, but damn those acogs are pricey!

I picked up AFG, VFG, BUIS..

Will probably consider lights/lasers later... nobody seems to use lasers that much...

Any suggestions for AR accessory suppliers would be appreciated!

Depending on what you want, I've had good luck with:

Topgunsupply.com
Rainier Arms
Bravo Company USA
Magpul

MrMurphy
12-03-2011, 04:09
What plea said, just because you can run it doesn't mean it's great.

Last couple days of my middle eastern vacation I was running an M16A2 because the other option was driving around miles from any backup armed with an M9 and 2 loaded mags of FMJ. That wasn't gonna happen and I wasn't shotgun qualified, so I took a rack-spare M16A2 instead.

Same thing happened home-base in my last major (wing level) exercise. The armorers lost their tiny little minds, couldn't find my rifle in the giant mess that was going on, so one of them tossed me a base-populace A2 and my team rolled out.

Cleared about 10 buildings, a construction site, and all five stories of an aircraft control tower. In armor, helmet, M16A2 with irons and fixed stock. Did it suck? Yes. I made it work. Done it with a full -sized (no collapsing stock or short barrel) M249 before, so the M16 was at least lighter. It wasn't optimal, but it was what was on hand.


I have one pure hunting rifle and shotgun. The others are all military surplus, still in issued condition (though it would be a bad, bad day before I had to arm up with a rifle made in 1918 for a fight), or modern, fully tricked out for duty type use.

Everyone's AR can be what they want it to be, but just because YOU don't have a use for all the accessories does not make them 'dumb'. If you don't know what they're for, keep your mouth shut.

series1811
12-03-2011, 05:52
Cool thread... I am in the market for optics. Considering eotech, aimpoint, and Trij acog, but damn those acogs are pricey!

I picked up AFG, VFG, BUIS..

Will probably consider lights/lasers later... nobody seems to use lasers that much...

Any suggestions for AR accessory suppliers would be appreciated!

If it's just a range gun, buy you a cheap ass BSA, or something similar,r red dot and put on it just to see how you like the concept.

Don't use it like a rifle scope. Train yourself to keep both eyes open and focus on the target and the scope will blur out in your vision, leaving just a red dot on where your round will go. It's hard to describe, but when you finally find yourself able to do it the light will go off on why red dots are so cool. In practicality it works just like a laser, but better and brighter.

And, the cheapo models can be tough they can be tough. I had one on a BB gun that sat under salt water for six hours, then sat in the air for three weeks before I found it in the muck in my storeroom after Katrina. When I found it, I wiped it off and cut on the switch, and it still worked. :supergrin:

I might still have it now, but someone helping me threw it away when cleaning up, because the gun it was on was such a rusty mess.

I mean, not everybody is kicking in doors with their rifle. If all you are doing is having fun with it, then who gives a crap if your sight is $40 or $400, except you?

Gribble
12-03-2011, 06:01
Other than iron sights the only two things that are a must with me is a light and sling. I have several Ar's some are tricked out some are not but they all have a light on them. As Mr. Murphy stated a light is a must on any weapon you plan on using for the protection of your life. Being blind is not good and 9 times out of 10 the light wins the fight.........

ancient_serpent
12-03-2011, 10:13
[QUOTE] Originally Posted by 21/4life http://glocktalk.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=18234766#post18234766)
I am pretty new to ARs, so here goes what is a VFG and AFG?[QUOTE]

I apologize for not answering your question, I see someone already did so. I use a Knights Armament Vertical Foregrip on one of my ARs and a Magpul Angled Foregrip on a different one.

HAIL CAESAR
12-03-2011, 10:22
You fellas beat me to the punch about a light.

I rather have irons and a light over a RDS and no light. (IF I had to make a hard choice)

But I'd rather have a RDS and a light.

boomhower
12-03-2011, 10:38
Use what works for you and your needs. For my patrol rifle:

Aimpoint Pro in an ADM QD lower third mount
TLR-1S
DD VFG
Fixed DD rear wight
BFG Sling
Two PMAGS coupled in a Springer precision coupler
BattleComp
(added NiB BCG and SSA trigger to round it off)

Yeah, it's a lot of crap on the rifle but it all works for what I need it to do for my situation.

vafish
12-03-2011, 20:29
If someone mentions KISS to me, i consider them to either be:
1. Dumb
2. Uneducated or
3. Untrained
and possibly
4. Building a memorial/museum piece/exact repro i.e "This is what I carried in 1991 in the Gulf" which isn't necessarily a bad thing.



Or maybe they don't clear buildings for a living and just want a range toy.

QNman
12-03-2011, 23:05
I have five and a half (one extra upper) black rifles. All are set up different. All but one have an optic (and I'm working on that one) and BUIS. One has a WML, three have VFG. I don't clear buildings for a living, so none are needed to have every device as those who do. I dress them the way that floats my personal boat because they're mine and that's the way I like them.

To each his own. Your rifle, your call.

fnfalman
12-04-2011, 02:02
Ever since I left Uncle Sam's services twenty years ago, while not being a member of law enforcement agency, I still have needs - not want but needs, to have my AR equipped with red dot, BUIS, quad rail, C-mag, flash light, laser pointer, short scope, long scope, single point sling AND bayonet because I can never know when haji will come and blast down my joint, or me having to fight off SAMCRO, or the Bloods and the Crips decide to partay in front of my joint...

You just never know.

fnfalman
12-04-2011, 02:06
Everyone's AR can be what they want it to be, but just because YOU don't have a use for all the accessories does not make them 'dumb'. If you don't know what they're for, keep your mouth shut.

So, when you go home to the State and off duty, you have a similarly equipped AR too for "serious" business?

It's one thing to trick something out for the hell of it. It's another to do it because it's a "serious" business rifle where the owner is a lard ass Soldier of Fortune reader/24 watcher who fancies himself to be some sort of "operator". Play soldier is one thing, pretend that it's actually real is another.

MrMurphy
12-04-2011, 02:11
I'm not active anymore. I work in the gaming business. But my rifle is set up as it was, just because, as you pointed out "you never know". And if everything goes to hell, I want my rifle set up exactly as I've trained with.

I don't give a crap how anyone sets up their rifles. I do give a crap when some oxygen thief ridicules what they don't understand or know about on someone else's weapon.

I have no issues with having range toys. Desert Eagles exist for a reason and all that. But if you disagree with someone else's set up..... keep your opinion to yourself.

Airborne Infantryman
12-04-2011, 02:15
I equip my rifles the way I do because I CAN.........

Just waiting for my Form 1 to come back....ever seen what a flash enhancer does on a 10.5 inch SBR? You guy's will see as soon as I get my stamp. BOO-YAH! :wavey:

I equip my rifles with optics/lights and such that I've used overseas because honestly, its what I know, and what I trust. I setup my rifles the same way I do my rifle at work, because again, its all I've known for the past 5 years. Do I equip them that way to fend off the U.N/Zombies/China? Not really. I just like using what I know and trust. All else is irrelevant. Odds are if I ever use a firearm to protect myself its going to be either my SigPro, or my 12 Gauge pump that sits next to my bed.

When I see a setup I think is stupid or whatever, I just remember that everyone has their own specific way of doing things, and such, and that people may think my setups are stupid. Hell, I've taken flak for having the killFlash-LFU on my ACOG. I have that up there because I like the extra protection the killFlash and flip-cap give my $1600 optic. Nothing more, nothing less. All else is irrelevant except the fact that I like the way my rifles are setup. No one elses opinion matters.

WoodenPlank
12-04-2011, 02:19
I equip my rifles the way I do because I CAN.........

Just waiting for my Form 1 to come back....ever seen what a flash enhancer does on a 10.5 inch SBR? You guy's will see as soon as I get my stamp. BOO-YAH! :wavey:

I've seen what an MB556K does on a 10.5" SBR when it is dark... :wow:

Airborne Infantryman
12-04-2011, 02:27
I've seen what an MB556K does on a 10.5" SBR when it is dark... :wow:

Then you'll love this- :supergrin:

http://ordnance.com/content/degroat-flash-enhancer-223-12-28tpi

Again, because I can....:tongueout:

ETA: Its as close as I'll ever get to having a Flamethrower...so two birds with one stone.

WoodenPlank
12-04-2011, 02:28
Then you'll love this- :supergrin:

http://ordnance.com/content/degroat-flash-enhancer-223-12-28tpi

Again, because I can....:tongueout:

Meh, until I can afford my can, I'll stick to my KX3.

pag23
12-04-2011, 09:31
I will use a flashlight and red dot because there is a lot of woods, fields and lack of public lighting near my house and it would suck not being able to ID something that goes bump in the night. Does this work for everybody? No. but having friends in Military and LE, you get to ask the questions and get recommendations.

DieselNut
12-05-2011, 00:19
I just tacticooled out my rifle with a moe grip+

TangoFoxtrot
12-06-2011, 14:52
In my case, there is no 'envisioning'. Spending 3 years clearing buildings for a living means every piece on the rifle is there for a purpose and it's been tested many times.

Optic: Not an option.

Sling: Same.

Light: Definitely not an option..... being in a dark building at night without one, or a dark building interior in broad daylight, sucks giant sweaty donkey nuts. Been there, done that.

VFG: Have run with and without, in my case, prefer with.

If someone mentions KISS to me, i consider them to either be:
1. Dumb
2. Uneducated or
3. Untrained
and possibly
4. Building a memorial/museum piece/exact repro i.e "This is what I carried in 1991 in the Gulf" which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

The only thing that ever comes off the gun is occasionally one of the lights. And not often.

WOW were you in the Mall Ninja wars?:upeyes: Anyone who states that things should not be kept simple (as in your ignorant rant on the KISS principle) on a weapon that is used in combat for the average troop apparently has never be in the stress of a firefight in a combat zone and should not pretend to be.

fnfalman
12-06-2011, 15:46
WOW were you in the Mall Ninja wars?:upeyes: Anyone who states that things should not be kept simple (as in your ignorant rant on the KISS principle) on a weapon that is used in combat for the average troop apparently has never be in the stress of a firefight in a combat zone and should not pretend to be.

He was in Air Force Security.

CarryTexas
12-06-2011, 15:56
WOW were you in the Mall Ninja wars?:upeyes: Anyone who states that things should not be kept simple (as in your ignorant rant on the KISS principle) on a weapon that is used in combat for the average troop apparently has never be in the stress of a firefight in a combat zone and should not pretend to be.

Did I miss the sarcasm in this comment?

You did read that he is a combat vet from the WOT?

MrMurphy
12-06-2011, 16:32
I deployed. Didn't have any rounds fired my way because of where we were.


If you think a light, and an optic are 'complicated'...... you're underestimating people.

I ran a launcher, 3 kinds of irons, a laser and an Aimpoint+ light and holy hell, my brain did not explode. My gunner (barely 19) ran an M249 without an issues. He could also drive and count higher than 10.

Simple is good, but KISS does not equal "ditch every advance in combat technology made since 1962". Even the Marine Corps went to optics when they realized irons-only was leaving them behind.

There are times when 'simpler than a light, sling and optic" are required.... rarely.

If it's a range toy, put whatever you want on there. If it's a serious modern fighting rifle, a dot optic, light and sling are the bare minimum anyone with training considers 'necessary'. More can be added with training and reasons... but going less except in a few cases is just irrational.

While I never was on the two-way range (AK_Stick and others were) there were countless times, day, night, rain, snow, ice, hail, etc (add sandstorms for the extra flavor) where I was locked and loaded responding to alarms and searching stuff. I am quite sure I know about the sphincter-pucker moment when you're committed on entry, several thousand times with rounds ready to go and looking for targets.

So yes, irons vs Aimpoint? Been there, with both, day and night. Aimpoint wins.

Light vs no light? No contest, I like to stay alive.

Sling? Same thing. Having to climb ladders, hump miles and drag potential wounded means hey guess what, having two hands free is GOOD.

But do what you want. Your rifle is yours and mine is mine. If you wish to be a one round per minute range queen, feel free, it's a free (&!(*ing country.

My rifles are for fighting and hunting and set up appropriately from my own personal training and experiences.

But don't ever try and tell me running a naked rifle with irons is 'optimal' past about 1998.

ralphie98
12-06-2011, 16:33
I think what everybody needs to keep in mind is that not all of us use an AR for work or self defense. Some of us just love having fun with these guns and truly use them as toys. If somebody gets a kick outta mounting a vfg on all 4 sides of his rails just for giggles then why not? If average Joe wants every accessory known to man attached to his rifle then he should be able to do so without being harassed over it.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

mjkeat
12-06-2011, 22:39
Though I have been I don't feel you need to have been on the 2 way range in order to know what works nor do I feel you need to be on the 2 way range in order to justify setting up your rifle as if you were. That gear is proven to work so why not? Plus sometimes it's hard to leave that stuff behind :)

AK_Stick
12-06-2011, 23:30
WOW were you in the Mall Ninja wars?:upeyes: Anyone who states that things should not be kept simple (as in your ignorant rant on the KISS principle) on a weapon that is used in combat for the average troop apparently has never be in the stress of a firefight in a combat zone and should not pretend to be.


I carried an M-16A2 in 05-06 an M-4 in 09-10 and an M-4 again in 10-11, and for the life of me see a reason to choose that over the much better lay out of the A3/4 or M-4, with red dot and a light.


There's a reason the Army fielded the M-68/ Aimpoint M-4 to everyone and has gotten away from the fixed iron sights. It wasn't because its so hard to operate.


Secondly, if I can trust an 18-19 year old to function a radio, or a machinegun in combat, why is the operation of a flashlight or a red dot suddenly out of their capability?

M&P15T
12-07-2011, 08:55
It's funny if you think about it;

I start a thread about how ARs are like LEGO sets, and people can do as they please with them accessory-wise, so there's no point to arguing about it.

What happens?

People argue about it.:rofl:

smokin762
12-07-2011, 10:36
I have 5 AR type rifles. They are all simple and basic. I pretty much just enjoy marksmanship. I am not out to take over the world. :cool:<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
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All have Magpul Handguards. I think they bring the AR rifle up to date and they give me the option if I need to attach a light.<o:p></o:p>
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All have the Magpul BAD installed on them. It helps me with sending the bolt forward in the prone position.<o:p></o:p>
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All AR rifles have M1 style slings. These slings help me with marksmanship while target shooting.<o:p></o:p>
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All AR carbines have the basic Nylon slings. I just donít see a good way to attach M1 style slings to a tele stock. <o:p></o:p>
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I have the RRA tactical carry handle with the A2 rear sight on all ARís because I like the elevated mounting surface in case I want to add an optic to it and I will not have to take off the A2 rear sight to do it.<o:p></o:p>

bmoore
12-07-2011, 11:01
WOW were you in the Mall Ninja wars?:upeyes: Anyone who states that things should not be kept simple (as in your ignorant rant on the KISS principle) on a weapon that is used in combat for the average troop apparently has never be in the stress of a firefight in a combat zone and should not pretend to be.

Its that way no matter where you go or what your into. Im not pointing fingers in this forum but it goes with the territory. The people with the most amount of expenive top of the line equipment are usually not really the ones getting after it. Though they will post just enough of their experience to make you think they are, just enough........not to little, not to much that way people cower to their presence. But sooner or later the facts come out.

Its just like going to a Fire/EMS class, theres guys there with the most advanced/pricey gear for their turnouts and the same type of gear stuffed in their medical aide coats so hard the pockets are overflowing. Then at the end of the week you find out they work at a dept that runs 8 calls a month in a rich peoples area of town. It never fails. Uh dude your not gonna need all that junk when your down the hallway with fire over your head and your trying to be flat as a snake on the ground. Your also not going to need that 200 dollar stethoscope around your neck to run a double stabbing call, the 40 dollar one in the ambulance will be just fine. Priceless. The last class we had one of the guys there was so hardcore you would think he worked brooklyn FDNY or LAFD station 9, turned out he worked on a military base and the unit he as assigned to ran about 3 calls a month, and 2 out of the 3 were cancels prior to getting on scene. He had all the cool stuff though.

Glockdude1
12-07-2011, 11:14
It's funny if you think about it;

I start a thread about how ARs are like LEGO sets, and people can do as they please with them accessory-wise, so there's no point to arguing about it.

What happens?

People argue about it.:rofl:

agree:

Pass the popcorn will ya???

:rofl: