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hoghunter82
12-02-2011, 15:33
Total HK newbie here. In my search for a P7 I wandered upon the P30. What a nice feeling pistol. I need some education here. I don't like thumb safety so handled the decocker version. I had heard about a LEM trigger and the LGS had a P2000sk? with that trigger in the range case. The LGS clerk had no idea about the triggers and neither do I. But I really like that trigger/hammer style of the one he said was a LEM. The pull was smooth and consistent with no thumb safety and no decocker. I have not done any research so don't flame me for asking questions before doing my own work. My questions: Does the P30 come with that trigger set up? I see so many v1, v2, etc tags on the HKs I can't tell what I am looking at and the LGS is no help either. Hard to shop/search online when you don't have a clue. What P30 version am I looking for? Anything i need to be aware of good/bad on these P30 or LEM trigger?Thanks in advance.


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legallyarmed
12-02-2011, 15:41
http://www.hkpro.com/forum/

Here is a great place for the information.

thumbbreak
12-02-2011, 15:43
I have a P30 with a standard DA/SA trigger (with the decocker in the rear next to the hammer) and (IMO) it is 10X better than the previous USP or p2000 triggers. They do have a LEM version and I have a buddy that swears by his. I personally love the HK as my carry weapon and I'm partial to the SIG/S&W revolver-type DA trigger pulls on the first round. Thereafter, I have trained consistently with the single action reset followup up so that's my preference. If you want a more revolver feel, the LEM is close but the second shot on is lighter that the first trigger pull with a shorter reset, so, its not the same as a revolver.

The question I would ask is, "Why do you feel like you need the LEM or DA-only system vs. the DA/SA-type setup?" That might get you closer to a setup that will fit you.

madAB
12-02-2011, 15:51
P30 does come with the LEM trigger. I have a P30 V2 which is the LEM trigger 8 lb. It also comes in a V1 which is the LEM trigger 5 lb. I believe.

P.S. I really like the LEM trigger and I'm not a traditional DOA kind of guy.

hoghunter82
12-02-2011, 16:26
To answer above, I have never been a huge fan of the hammer system and hard first pull. The LEM seemed to give me more of a striker fired feel but in a HK. So the V determines the poundage on the LEM?
EDIT: I was finally able to access HKs website so it explains the V.

Tiro Fijo
12-02-2011, 16:44
Save your money & buy the new Walther PPQ. Same if not better ergonomics, no funky rear decocker, and a trigger pull that H&K can only dream of. :wavey:

H&K 4 LIFE
12-02-2011, 18:28
The LEM (Law Enforcement Modification) is best described as a DAO trigger with a short reset.

The P30 is mostly found in V3 (DA/SA with rear frame mounted decocker). However, they are also availible in LEM variants, which the most common of which is the V2 (approx. 7.5lb breakage weight). Going to V1 can be achieved by swapping a few springs which will lower the trigger breakage weight to around 4.5lbs.

Having owned an LEM pistol for sometime now (P2000SK V2) I can tell you there is a certain learning curve associated with the trigger. It would really be best to try before you buy if at all possible.

I fired the P30 in V3 a bit today and as usual was impressed with the excellent ergos, minimal felt-recoil, and precision accuracy of the platform. I was able to hit 10" swinging steel plates at 25 yards provided I did my part.

Trust in the fact that HK does not produce poorly made products. :)

cowboy1964
12-02-2011, 18:30
Save your money & buy the new Walther PPQ. Same if not better ergonomics, no funky rear decocker, and a trigger pull that H&K can only dream of. :wavey:

And more felt recoil/muzzle flip than a Glock.

My P30 has no decocker.

I do have to say the PPQ feels just as good as the P30, which is really saying something. It's a hair smaller and lighter for carry too. I'm just really turned off by the reports of it having so much recoil. HKs excel at reducing recoil

Feanor
12-02-2011, 19:29
Total HK newbie here. In my search for a P7 I wandered upon the P30. What a nice feeling pistol. I need some education here. I don't like thumb safety so handled the decocker version. I had heard about a LEM trigger and the LGS had a P2000sk? with that trigger in the range case. The LGS clerk had no idea about the triggers and neither do I. But I really like that trigger/hammer style of the one he said was a LEM. The pull was smooth and consistent with no thumb safety and no decocker. I have not done any research so don't flame me for asking questions before doing my own work. My questions: Does the P30 come with that trigger set up? I see so many v1, v2, etc tags on the HKs I can't tell what I am looking at and the LGS is no help either. Hard to shop/search online when you don't have a clue. What P30 version am I looking for? Anything i need to be aware of good/bad on these P30 or LEM trigger?Thanks in advance.


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Yes it comes in the LEM variant! I would strongly caution you to first rent a P30(9mm I'm assuming)and shoot a minimum of 250 rounds through it before dropping in excess of $800.00 on one. Their ergonomics are very hostile to the majority of shooters.

Things you will need to be prepared for include; a meaningless groove intergrated directly into the trigger guard that is quite capable of causing pinch, and even drawing blood with extended range sessions! Ambi slide release levers that are at a minimum, one half inch to long and will very likely interfere with your natural gripping position(you'll have to modify your technique and the position of your offhand thumb)! Further, on the right hand side the portion of the frame that houses the ambi release, its overbig, resulting in a bulging protuberance right about where 80% are taught to ride their trigger finger when off target!

There remain other issues, but the biggest one is the positioning of the decocker button at the exact rear of the slide/frame. If you're left handed it will be all but impossible for you to engage, this is because the hammer profile is straight/flat and long when cocked, it will perfectly block the left handed shooters thumb without first modifying your grip! For right handed shooters the problem is that your thumb will almost always contact the hammer as you move to decock the pistol! All this contributes to an eccentricity of balance, an almost hostile interface with the hands of a very significant percentage of shooters.

You mention your interest is in the LEM variant, good, as thats about the only version I'd ever seriously consider for myself, keeping in mind that it will still have the trigger guard groove & the way to long slide release levers. There are a few companies that will remove(sand down)that groove for you, Bowie comes to mind, however you're stuck with the slide release levers no matter what.

If you're in the small subset that isn't bothered by the above, then they are pretty decent pistols, well made, with multiple grip insert options to make it conform to your hand, with the LEM variant the trigger can be had in either 4.5lb, or 8lb pulls. The conventional triggers are in my opinion, crap, especially considering the enormously inflated price tag.

You should know that HK is very likely to release a significantly upgraded version of this pistol, at least thats what they(HK)have led me to believe.

WoodenPlank
12-02-2011, 19:59
HK Pro really is the best resource for anything HK.

I have a P30 in my future, but I specifically want the P30S in 9mm. Carry it cocked and locked, and the first DA trigger pull is no longer an issue. That's the same way I carried my USP9 before I sold it. I really wish I still had that pistol.

Swamprattler
12-02-2011, 20:11
Contrary to some of the above opinions, the variant 3 DA/SA is a very viable option, and has -to me- a much shorter learning curve. The light LEM still has that long first pull that takes much getting use to, and I am well aware that many top professionals prefer it. I have many Glocks in several calibers, and like them all, and will always have them. But the P30's I have in both 9mm and 40cal are fantastic guns with great ergonomics and reliability. My accuracy with a handgun increased dramatically with them, and I have shot for years. The grips can be customized to such a degree that it will fit most any hand. I have had 9mm guns by Glock, S&W, Sig Sauer, and a few others, and to me the P30 is the finest 9mm currently out there. I still love my Glock 9's, and carry them often.

Feanor
12-02-2011, 20:16
HK Pro really is the best resource for anything HK.

I have a P30 in my future, but I specifically want the P30S in 9mm. Carry it cocked and locked, and the first DA trigger pull is no longer an issue. That's the same way I carried my USP9 before I sold it. I really wish I still had that pistol.

The P30S is an ergonomic catstrophe, you should shoot one extensively before taking the plunge on one. Take a good look at the positioning of the cocked hammer, keeping in mind that the decock button is directly opposite it on the left side of the slide!

I'm not talking of holding one in your hand, go rent one and shoot it extensively. If you're still enamored of it after 200-300 rounds in an hours time, then by all means buy one.

10mm Sonny
12-02-2011, 20:18
This thread needs some porn.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f140/z07vette/P-30L0002a.jpg

thumbbreak
12-02-2011, 21:30
I can assure you, as a left handed shooter AND a guy the practices and carries this gun regularly, I have never had an issue with the ability to decock, inadvertent slide release, slide catch on the final round, or AD with this weapon system. Everyone has there opinions but you are a little over the top with the positioning of your statements...

I'm just saying...

Feanor
12-02-2011, 22:07
I can assure you, as a left handed shooter AND a guy the practices and carries this gun regularly, I have never had an issue with the ability to decock, inadvertent slide release, slide catch on the final round, or AD with this weapon system. Everyone has there opinions but you guys a little over the top on the positioning of your statements...

I'm just saying...

Well, great! But you are in a very definite minority, as I have indicated, a small subset of shooter's appear to be unfazed by these specific design issues. Nonetheless, you are but a singular experience, for whatever reason your physical interface to the pistol works well for you, for many it simply does not.

To truthfully inform the OP is hardly what can be classified as "over the top" of me. Frankly, that you would say so is somewhat childish of you, it's almost as though you're taking the truth to be an attack on yourself in some fashion, it's not!

hoghunter82
12-02-2011, 22:13
Well, great! But you are in a very definite minority, as I have indicated, a small subset of shooter's appear to be unfazed by these specific design issues. Nonetheless, you are but a singular experience, for whatever reason your physical interface to the pistol works well for you, for many it simply does not.

To truthfully inform the OP is hardly what can be classified as "over the top" of me. Frankly, that you would say so is somewhat childish of you, it's almost as though you're taking the truth to be an attack on yourself in some fashion, it's not!


No worries, guys. I value all opinions on the forum (positive & negative). It is up to me to decide which fits my specific issues. i appreciate both sides of the conversation. Maybe I should just get a P7 and forget about it !!!!

WayaX
12-02-2011, 22:15
I can assure you, as a left handed shooter AND a guy the practices and carries this gun regularly, I have never had an issue with the ability to decock, inadvertent slide release, slide catch on the final round, or AD with this weapon system. Everyone has there opinions but you guys a little over the top on the positioning of your statements...

I'm just saying...

You're not in the minority. I also shoot the P30 left handed extensively. Being left-handed is one reason why I shoot HKs.

thumbbreak
12-02-2011, 22:17
Well, great! But you are in a very definite minority, as I have indicated, a small subset of shooter's appear to be unfazed by these specific design issues. Nonetheless, you are but a singular experience, for whatever reason your physical interface to the pistol works well for you, for many it simply does not.

To truthfully inform the OP is hardly what can be classified as "over the top" of me. Frankly, that you would say so is somewhat childish of you, it's almost as though you're taking the truth to be an attack on yourself in some fashion, it's not!

It's your opinion. I'm not offended, I'm simply conveying my experience without representing "everyone". But, you obviously know more than I, so, I will defer to your superior intellect and personal experience. Please excuse my incursion into your world...

Feanor
12-02-2011, 22:21
You're not in the minority. I also shoot the P30 left handed extensively. Being left-handed is one reason why I shoot HKs.

How do you know that you're not in the minority? Why is HK redesigning the mechanism in question? Why do you feel this to be an issue of right or wrong? ;)

12131
12-02-2011, 22:27
How do you know that you're not in the minority? Why is HK redesigning the mechanism in question? Why do you feel this to be an issue of right or wrong? ;)
Since you're claiming folks disagreeing with you on the P30's "ergonomic disaster" are in the minority, please provide some hard data. I mean real data, not some convoluted argument.

Feanor
12-02-2011, 22:35
It's your opinion. I'm not offended, I'm simply conveying my experience without representing "everyone". But, you obviously know more than I, so, I will defer to your superior intellect and personal experience. Please excuse my incursion into your world...

:faint:This is why I don't come here as often as I used to, usually I just stick to m4carbine.net where this kind of silliness is quickly weeded out. Look, just because I have a very valid series of criticisms for this particular weapon doesn't translate as a challenge to personal combat for you, does it?

I would just once like to come over here and interact with a group of respectful adults, adults who cherish the free-flow of information, not this silly testosterone driven foolishness.

crazymoose
12-03-2011, 04:14
I kind of agree with Feanor. The P30 has a comfy grip, but the rest of the ergonomics are like some kind of Teutonic hand-torture device: sucky triggers (all variants), pinching trigger guard, bizarrely placed decocker in the non-LEM configuration, unfortunate mag release, clunky balance. It's a solid, reliable gun that can be shot pretty accurately despite its trigger, but I never really fell in love with it and sold mine pretty quickly. Ditto on the HK45.

H&K 4 LIFE
12-03-2011, 07:10
I suppose I'm another person in the "minority" then. The P30 V3 shot absolutely stellar for me at the range yesterday. No problems with the trigger, trough in the trigger guard, or location of the decocker and magazine release. Double action is decent as well as the SA, although the reset is a little longer then I am familiar with (long time USP shooter). Stock sights have big easily visible dots on them and with a Surefire X400 mounted there was also very little felt recoil due to the added weight up front.

My one and only complaint is that I tend to ride the slide release lever which causes the pistol to not lock open after firing the last round. However, this is only due to my grip alone and the same thing happens to me with the HK P2000 and P2000SK, as well as SIG P-series pistols.

If the trough in the trigger guard bothers someone that much it can be removed by Bowie Tactical Concepts (http://www.bowietacticalconcepts.com/), which is part of what they call the "Vickers package". :)

thumbbreak
12-03-2011, 10:45
I kind of agree with Feanor. The P30 has a comfy grip, but the rest of the ergonomics are like some kind of Teutonic hand-torture device: sucky triggers (all variants), pinching trigger guard, bizarrely placed decocker in the non-LEM configuration, unfortunate mag release, clunky balance. It's a solid, reliable gun that can be shot pretty accurately despite its trigger, but I never really fell in love with it and sold mine pretty quickly. Ditto on the HK45.

Now that's a better way to weigh in on a weapon that you do not particularly like. Thank you for you opinion and your thoughts Mr. Moose!

(Note to Feanor... notice the difference)

Tiro Fijo
12-03-2011, 13:30
And more felt recoil/muzzle flip than a Glock....

I do have to say the PPQ feels just as good as the P30, which is really saying something. It's a hair smaller and lighter for carry too. I'm just really turned off by the reports of it having so much recoil. HKs excel at reducing recoil


Not true IMO & I have shot both. I am not trying to "pee" in the thread but everyone I know who owns a P30 and then shoots a PPQ likes the PPQ better. Walther beat H&K to the punch with a striker fired pistol and it's a winner. Just shoot one and join the cult. :supergrin:

checkyoursix
12-03-2011, 18:13
Left handed and P30 DA/SA owner here. I find it odd that a right handed speaks for us, but whatever. In fact H&K is extremely friendly for south paws, and like the others lefties I have experienced no issues whatsoever in using the decocker.
Am not in love with the slide release which requires too much of an adjustment in my opinion. When one shooter fails to let the slide lock it is an issue for him. When tons of people have the same issue then it's a design flaw.


The P30 is designed with military personnel in mind, it assumes operators wearing gloves and this is whence the problem with the trigger guard mentioned by some originates I believe. I have had no issues personally, and I consider it an outstanding combat pistol.


Quality ergonomics and reliability are paramount. For the original poster, be aware that H&K service leaves a lot to be desired in the opinion of many.

H&K 4 LIFE
12-03-2011, 19:34
Left handed and P30 DA/SA owner here. I find it odd that a right handed speaks for us, but whatever. In fact H&K is extremely friendly for south paws, and like the others lefties I have experienced no issues whatsoever in using the decocker.
Am not in love with the slide release which requires too much of an adjustment in my opinion. When one shooter fails to let the slide lock it is an issue for him. When tons of people have the same issue then it's a design flaw.


The P30 is designed with military personnel in mind, it assumes operators wearing gloves and this is whence the problem with the trigger guard mentioned by some originates I believe. I have had no issues personally, and I consider it an outstanding combat pistol.


Quality ergonomics and reliability are paramount. For the original poster, be aware that H&K service leaves a lot to be desired in the opinion of many.

I agree with just about everything you have stated, save for the last part in bold.

If you read the link below, you can read a thread about an HK pistol owner (civilian) who recently had the recoil ring on the slide of his USP break off.

http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-handgun-talk/148716-i-broke-my-usp.html

The pistol was used, and an older production date code KD (1993). The pistol had also had an aftermarket finish applied to the slide.

The owner sent the pistol to HK for repair, and HK not only updated the pistol with all relevant parts upgrades, but replaced the slide with a brand new one with a matching date code out old inventory.

HK virtually rebuilt the pistol and all of the parts and labor was covered under warranty. :)

ARCman47
12-03-2011, 19:42
I agree with just about everything you have stated, save for the last part in bold.

If you read the link below, you can read a thread about an HK pistol owner (civilian) who recently had the recoil ring on the slide of his USP break off.

http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-handgun-talk/148716-i-broke-my-usp.html

The pistol was used, and an older production date code KD (1993). The pistol had also had an aftermarket finish applied to the slide.

The owner sent the pistol to HK for repair, and HK not only updated the pistol with all relevant parts upgrades, but replaced the slide with a brand new one with a matching date code out old inventory.

HK virtually rebuilt the pistol and all of the parts and labor was covered under warranty. :)

Wow now you got me wanting an HK. actually i had been looking at the P30 :cool:

magpie maniac
12-03-2011, 19:56
Not true IMO & I have shot both. I am not trying to "pee" in the thread but everyone I know who owns a P30 and then shoots a PPQ likes the PPQ better. Walther beat H&K to the punch with a striker fired pistol and it's a winner. Just shoot one and join the cult. :supergrin:

Well, then you don't know me. ;) I tried the P30 and the PPQ at the range and ended up buying a P30S V3. It was more accurate for me and much less felt recoil. The fit and finish of the P30 is also a big leap over the PPQ.

But anyway, you are sort of threadjacking here.

Larry V
12-04-2011, 08:28
Yes it comes in the LEM variant! I would strongly caution you to first rent a P30(9mm I'm assuming)and shoot a minimum of 250 rounds through it before dropping in excess of $800.00 on one. Their ergonomics are very hostile to the majority of shooters.

Things you will need to be prepared for include; a meaningless groove intergrated directly into the trigger guard that is quite capable of causing pinch, and even drawing blood with extended range sessions! Ambi slide release levers that are at a minimum, one half inch to long and will very likely interfere with your natural gripping position(you'll have to modify your technique and the position of your offhand thumb)! Further, on the right hand side the portion of the frame that houses the ambi release, its overbig, resulting in a bulging protuberance right about where 80% are taught to ride their trigger finger when off target!




There remain other issues, but the biggest one is the positioning of the decocker button at the exact rear of the slide/frame. If you're left handed it will be all but impossible for you to engage, this is because the hammer profile is straight/flat and long when cocked, it will perfectly block the left handed shooters thumb without first modifying your grip! For right handed shooters the problem is that your thumb will almost always contact the hammer as you move to decock the pistol! All this contributes to an eccentricity of balance, an almost hostile interface with the hands of a very significant percentage of shooters.

You mention your interest is in the LEM variant, good, as thats about the only version I'd ever seriously consider for myself, keeping in mind that it will still have the trigger guard groove & the way to long slide release levers. There are a few companies that will remove(sand down)that groove for you, Bowie comes to mind, however you're stuck with the slide release levers no matter what.

If you're in the small subset that isn't bothered by the above, then they are pretty decent pistols, well made, with multiple grip insert options to make it conform to your hand, with the LEM variant the trigger can be had in either 4.5lb, or 8lb pulls. The conventional triggers are in my opinion, crap, especially considering the enormously inflated price tag.

You should know that HK is very likely to release a significantly upgraded version of this pistol, at least thats what they(HK)have led me to believe.

I have 3000 rounds through my P30 and have never been pinched let alone drawn blood.

cowboy1964
12-04-2011, 14:30
The slide lock levers are my least favorite part of the P30. Way too long. They would be great if they were half the length they are.

I can't use a "thumbs forward along the frame" type of grip with the P30. Besides my thumb touching the slide lock lever I also tend to accidently drop the mag during rapid fire (don't ask me how that is happening, but it is).

Never had a pinching problem. The P30 is the most comfortably 9mm I've ever shot (along with the Sig P229 E2).

pittrj
12-04-2011, 14:41
I like the P30 so much, I traded in my Glocks on three more P30s. All four of mine are Version 3 and I couldn't be happier. No trace of any blood drawn and the controls are perfect for my hands. Personally, I prefer the hammer to striker fired pistols. But, that's just me. I'd gladly recommend the pistol to anyone. The only problem so far has been finding holsters for them. Though, that seems to be changing as I've noticed more holster options on the market.

BuckyP
12-04-2011, 15:25
Ambi slide release levers that are at a minimum, one half inch to long and will very likely interfere with your natural gripping position(you'll have to modify your technique and the position of your offhand thumb)! Further, on the right hand side the portion of the frame that houses the ambi release, its overbig, resulting in a bulging protuberance right about where 80% are taught to ride their trigger finger when off target!


I don't own a P30, but on the P2000 it seems you can take off the ambi slide release if you wanted too. Could the same be said of the P30? :dunno:

checkyoursix
12-04-2011, 17:09
I agree with just about everything you have stated, save for the last part in bold.

If you read the link below, you can read a thread about an HK pistol owner (civilian) who recently had the recoil ring on the slide of his USP break off.



Thank you for the correction, that was my only statement not backed up by personal experience, I was just relating what others were lamenting.

I am glad to learn I heard something wrong, H&K is a great brand that should stand behind every customer.

Feanor
12-04-2011, 21:24
I have 3000 rounds through my P30 and have never been pinched let alone drawn blood.

Hey, like I said, thats just swell for you! These guy's seem to have had a different experience with that little groove, and they ripped HK for integrating it into the HK45 from the P30. They should know as they helped in large part with it's design. It's funny, the only people I ever hear from that aren't bothered by that sharp little groove, the only ones, are here, on the internet! Every single professional I've shot with on these two pistols has *****ed about it, everyone of them! Amazing as hell how soft they all are.

http://pistol-training.com/articles/HK45-interview-with-ken-hackathorn

WoodenPlank
12-04-2011, 21:52
Hey, like I said, thats just swell for you! These guy's seem to have had a different experience with that little groove, and they ripped HK for integrating it into the HK45 from the P30. They should know as they helped in large part with it's design. It's funny, the only people I ever hear from that aren't bothered by that sharp little groove, the only ones, are here, on the internet! Every single professional I've shot with on these two pistols has *****ed about it, everyone of them! Amazing as hell how soft they all are.

http://pistol-training.com/articles/HK45-interview-with-ken-hackathorn

I never had any issues with either P30 or USP handguns, despite hearing similar complaints about both. :dunno:

Roger G23
12-04-2011, 22:05
Save your money & buy the new Walther PPQ. Same if not better ergonomics, no funky rear decocker, and a trigger pull that H&K can only dream of. :wavey:Now that's what I'm talkin bout. +1 PPQ Awesome....Oh, and don't forget the trigger reset is .10''

Feanor
12-04-2011, 22:08
I never had any issues with either P30 or USP handguns, despite hearing similar complaints about both. :dunno:

You have a unique physical interface with the pistol, like the two lefties who profess zero difficulty in accessing the DC button even though the left thumb is perfectly blocked by the hammer, for some reason you/they are not affected.

Did you read the posted link? Vickers himself scolded HK for incorporating the trigger groove/trough in the prototype, however it was not what HK wanted to hear and they went ahead with it anyway, it's a design flaw that is being phased out, as it should have been when they were first alerted to it's detriment to the overall design.

WoodenPlank
12-04-2011, 22:17
You have a unique physical interface with the pistol, like the two lefties who profess zero difficulty in accessing the DC button even though the left thumb is perfectly blocked by the hammer, for some reason you/they are not affected.

Did you read the posted link? Vickers himself scolded HK for incorporating the trigger groove/trough in the prototype, however it was not what HK wanted to hear and they went ahead with it anyway, it's a design flaw that is being phased out, as it should have been when they were first alerted to it's detriment to the overall design.

I'm not disagreeing with the complaint about it being a flaw, I was merely stating that it never caused me a problem. :dunno:

Feanor
12-04-2011, 22:20
I'm not disagreeing with the complaint about it being a flaw, I was merely stating that it never caused me a problem. :dunno:

Like I said, you have a unique interface with the pistol, nothing wrong with that.

WoodenPlank
12-04-2011, 22:23
Like I said, you have a unique interface with the pistol, nothing wrong with that.

With the exception of the Mark 23, every HK handgun I have handled has fit like it was made for me. USP 9mm and .45, P30 9mm, P7 and P7M8 all fit me like a glove. I haven't had any trigger time behind a P9S or VP70z, though.

Feanor
12-04-2011, 22:42
With the exception of the Mark 23, every HK handgun I have handled has fit like it was made for me. USP 9mm and .45, P30 9mm, P7 and P7M8 all fit me like a glove. I haven't had any trigger time behind a P9S or VP70z, though.

I like the P30, though it's very much like the gen4 Glock's in that it could've been a masterpiece but for these few quirks. I am very curious to see the next generation of them. Quirks aside, they are along with the Glock, the best pistols to be had.

Search
12-04-2011, 23:02
How do you know that you're not in the minority? Why is HK redesigning the mechanism in question? Why do you feel this to be an issue of right or wrong? ;)

Please provide proof.

Feanor
12-04-2011, 23:10
Please provide proof.

:yawn: Proof of what, exactly?

Search
12-05-2011, 01:07
:yawn: Proof of what, exactly?


Why is HK redesigning the mechanism in question?

You should know that HK is very likely to release a significantly upgraded version of this pistol, at least thats what they(HK)have led me to believe.

The above 2 quotes.

cowboy1964
12-05-2011, 01:15
http://pistol-training.com/articles/HK45-interview-with-ken-hackathorn

The guys talking about torque? There is no torque with a 9mm so his whole premise is moot. Maybe on the 45.

I'll say it again, this groove issue is a non-issue for me. But then again I'm not "pro" so I must be doing something wrong.

Search
12-05-2011, 01:19
The guys talking about torque? There is no torque with a 9mm so his whole premise is moot. Maybe on the 45.

I'll say it again, this groove issue is a non-issue for me. But then again I'm not "pro" so I must be doing something wrong.

I've got thousands of rounds down range with my HK45. North Face, Oakley, and Mechanix gloves and bare handed. Never had an issue getting my finger pinched. I dismissed that a long time ago.

crazymoose
12-05-2011, 05:25
Now that's a better way to weigh in on a weapon that you do not particularly like. Thank you for you opinion and your thoughts Mr. Moose!

(Note to Feanor... notice the difference)

Thanks. I'm always frustrated with the plastic HK pistols because I know that HK has the engineering know-how to produce an excellent trigger (anyone who has shot a P9 or P7 can vouch for this point). I'm glad that they've focused on functionality on the USP series and its derivatives and ditched the weird roller-locked and gas-retarded operating systems, but I wish they'd give the same thought to trigger pull on the new guns that they gave to the older guns.

H&K 4 LIFE
12-05-2011, 08:21
... It's funny, the only people I ever hear from that aren't bothered by that sharp little groove, the only ones, are here, on the internet! Every single professional I've shot with on these two pistols has *****ed about it, everyone of them! Amazing as hell how soft they all are...

Funny that in the over 90,000 rounds Todd G. (www.pistol-training.com (http://www.pistol-training.com)) fired through the P30 during his P30 endurance test I do not recall him even once mentioning the trigger guard trough as being a problem. :dunno:

The Retired Sarge
12-05-2011, 10:46
The trigger guard groove is there to promote smooth operation with a gloved hand. After all, the primary purpose of HK weapons is for military applications. If you properly place your trigger finger level across the trigger face the grove is no issue.

Concerning the location of the P30 decocker I can easily work it when gripping the pistol with either hand. If by chance during reholstering you place the thumb on the hammer and feel it is cocked, you simply shift your thumb over for a rapid decock. That is the reason for its location. Bill

Feanor
12-05-2011, 14:57
the above 2 quotes.

1-706-568-1906

Feanor
12-05-2011, 15:01
Funny that in the over 90,000 rounds Todd G. (www.pistol-training.com (http://www.pistol-training.com)) fired through the P30 during his P30 endurance test I do not recall him even once mentioning the trigger guard trough as being a problem. :dunno:

Wrong! Todd covers it indepth over at HKforums. It's very likely that the two pistols he beards for have had the groove removed.

Feanor
12-05-2011, 15:05
The guys talking about torque? There is no torque with a 9mm so his whole premise is moot. Maybe on the 45.

I'll say it again, this groove issue is a non-issue for me. But then again I'm not "pro" so I must be doing something wrong.

Sure, the two guy's most influencial in the design of the HK45, their premise is moot! And "uhh" if I may, your description of the 9mm lacking torque, is a purely subjective and singular experience.

heyyouduh
12-05-2011, 17:11
:faint:This is why I don't come here as often as I used to, usually I just stick to m4carbine.net where this kind of silliness is quickly weeded out. Look, just because I have a very valid series of criticisms for this particular weapon doesn't translate as a challenge to personal combat for you, does it?

I would just once like to come over here and interact with a group of respectful adults, adults who cherish the free-flow of information, not this silly testosterone driven foolishness.

I dunno... you keep saying the majority of users will have problems with the controls and only a few will "have a unique interface" with the pistol, but from lookin around this thread it seems like the exact opposite is true.

H&K 4 LIFE
12-05-2011, 17:25
Wrong! Todd covers it indepth over at HKforums. It's very likely that the two pistols he beards for have had the groove removed.

Puzzling. Because this photo of the test pistol posted on PT.com was taken at week 32, with over 70,000 rounds fired.

We can clearly see the trough inside the trigger guard still present. :dunno:

http://pistol-training.com/archives/2186

http://pistol-training.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/degausser.jpg

checkyoursix
12-05-2011, 19:16
Feanor, you got your crusade and we heard you. As I said, I find the P30 a great gun for a lefty and you disagree, even though I am the third out of three lefties to speak. It's an hammer, and our thumbs are as mobile as yours of course we can go around it! Come on it's not a wall, take it easy.


You are now presented with evidence of a picture of the P30 you were so sure it had been modified and it wasn't. Back your stuff with equally compelling evidence or let go, a phone number is lame, your statements yours is the burden of proof right?

Feanor
12-05-2011, 20:12
Feanor, you got your crusade and we heard you. As I said, I find the P30 a great gun for a lefty and you disagree, even though I am the third out of three lefties to speak. It's an hammer, and our thumbs are as mobile as yours of course we can go around it! Come on it's not a wall, take it easy.


You are now presented with evidence of a picture of the P30 you were so sure it had been modified and it wasn't. Back your stuff with equally compelling evidence or let go, a phone number is lame, your statements yours is the burden of proof right?

On the contrary, it's you, and a small handful that is on the crusade! A portion of the respondents to this thread are likely not being completely truthful regarding their experience, or in actuality, have very "little real experience" with the pistol in question. One party has said he has three thousand rounds through his P30 without ever encountering the trigger groove, at all! Thats a very unusual circumstance to say the least.

All I have done is illustrate for the OP a few well documented eccentricities associated with the pistol, while it's somewhat unlikley that any one person will have difficulty with every issue outlined, it's also just as unlikely that they will have absolutely none! Todd G. is on record, along with the two men in the link I posted, acknowleging the flaw of the trigger groove, thats a fact.

You'd think I'd challenged several respondents manhood judging by their reactions to just some honest, well intended criticism, it becomes very tedious. It's almost like "Children Of The Corn" where any uninvited opinion is treated to catcalls of, "outlander outlander!"

NMGlocker
12-05-2011, 20:37
I have 3875 rounds through a P30 with no "groove" issues.
:dunno:
And as for the rest... I've shot multiple sub 5 seconds FAST runs with my P30, no problems with the ergonomics for me.
:wavey:

cowboy1964
12-05-2011, 21:39
Sure, the two guy's most influencial in the design of the HK45, their premise is moot! And "uhh" if I may, your description of the 9mm lacking torque, is a purely subjective and singular experience.

Yeah the 9mm is really known for it's torqueness.

cowboy1964
12-05-2011, 21:41
Wrong! Todd covers it indepth over at HKforums. It's very likely that the two pistols he beards for have had the groove removed.

Pure conjecture on your part, based on nothing.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=%22todd+green%22+p30+groove+pinch

Todd G. is on record, ... acknowleging the flaw of the trigger groove, thats a fact.

Post the link.

cowboy1964
12-05-2011, 21:48
it's a design flaw that is being phased out,

Post a link.

Comedian
12-06-2011, 00:11
And more felt recoil/muzzle flip than a Glock.

My P30 has no decocker.

I do have to say the PPQ feels just as good as the P30, which is really saying something. It's a hair smaller and lighter for carry too. I'm just really turned off by the reports of it having so much recoil. HKs excel at reducing recoil

The PPQ i tried had the most felt recoil of any 9mm pistol I've ever fired.

tx787
12-06-2011, 00:34
The V1, light LEM trigger, is very nice to shoot as long as you aren't expecting a 1911 or Glock type of short reset. I do not like HK's DA/SA trigger at all, it's really not very nice, worse than Sig for sure. The LEM is smooth and I really like the ergos of the HK, plus I think it looks cool. The big downsides are it's expensive and the mags are expensive. It's really not twice as good as Glock and it costs about twice as much, but I will probably never sell it.

Note, the vast majority of people who complain about HK's service have either never used it and are just repeating what they heard online or bought a used gun with no warranty and expected HK to make it brand new again.

http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/trevdawg48/DSCN0022.jpg

H&K 4 LIFE
12-06-2011, 08:08
On the contrary, it's you, and a small handful that is on the crusade! A portion of the respondents to this thread are likely not being completely truthful regarding their experience, or in actuality, have very "little real experience" with the pistol in question. One party has said he has three thousand rounds through his P30 without ever encountering the trigger groove, at all! Thats a very unusual circumstance to say the least.

All I have done is illustrate for the OP a few well documented eccentricities associated with the pistol, while it's somewhat unlikley that any one person will have difficulty with every issue outlined, it's also just as unlikely that they will have absolutely none! Todd G. is on record, along with the two men in the link I posted, acknowleging the flaw of the trigger groove, thats a fact.

You'd think I'd challenged several respondents manhood judging by their reactions to just some honest, well intended criticism, it becomes very tedious. It's almost like "Children Of The Corn" where any uninvited opinion is treated to catcalls of, "outlander outlander!"

Not the case. I rather like hearing opinions that differ from my own. I am only speaking from my direct personal experience with the pistol, as are you I'm sure.

If you have a link to where Todd G. mentioned anything about the trigger guard trough being a problem I would like to see it. As I said previously, I have never seen him make any mention of it. :)

hoghunter82
12-06-2011, 08:24
Since I am the OP on this thread let me make the final post. I bought a P7 PSP in near perfect condition, so the P30 thing is over(for now!). I may consider the P30 one day, but others are pointing me in the direction of the P2000 or maybe even the USP. Hopefully there are no trigger concerns with either of those pistols :supergrin:

Feanor
12-06-2011, 14:52
Pure conjecture on your part, based on nothing.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=%22todd+green%22+p30+groove+pinch



Post the link.

The insinuation that people who "know how to shoot" won't notice the trough is ridiculous. If it doesn't affect you, great. But trying to tell the rest of us -- and there are quite a few, if these threads are any indication -- that it's all in our heads or a user-induced problem is childish.

For what it's worth, every serious shooter who has put more than 100 rounds through my P30 in one session has commented on the trough. Some of them have actually lost blood because of it.

Is it a fatal flaw in the gun? Not by a long shot. If it bothers you that much, dremel it as many in this thread have already done. But "it doesn't happen to me so you suck if it happens to you" just shows a dramatic lack of understanding into shooting and ergonomics.
--
Train hard & stay safe!
Todd Louis Green
pistol-training.com (http://pistol-training.com/)
Because I don't suck, and HK doesn't hate me.

Feanor
12-06-2011, 14:56
Not the case. I rather like hearing opinions that differ from my own. I am only speaking from my direct personal experience with the pistol, as are you I'm sure.

If you have a link to where Todd G. mentioned anything about the trigger guard trough being a problem I would like to see it. As I said previously, I have never seen him make any mention of it. :)

Posted....

NMGlocker
12-06-2011, 15:10
:upeyes:

kennjen
12-06-2011, 15:26
>>Feanor said :
>>This is why I don't come here as often as I used to,
>>usually I just stick to m4carbine.net
>>where this kind of silliness is quickly weeded out.

Defensive much ? me thinks that you are the silliness...:wavey:

Categorically classifying P30 as a "Ergonomic Catstrophe" and the way you are presenting YOUR opinion as the "Truth" just isn't.....well...the whole "Truth".

Feanor
12-06-2011, 16:15
Since I am the OP on this thread let me make the final post. I bought a P7 PSP in near perfect condition, so the P30 thing is over(for now!). I may consider the P30 one day, but others are pointing me in the direction of the P2000 or maybe even the USP. Hopefully there are no trigger concerns with either of those pistols :supergrin:

P7 is a super pistol, congratulations. I also hope you've learned from the responses to your thread, to sift carefully through them. Most firearms bring both good and bad, when someone tells you it's all good, and that there is no such thing as "the bad" your radar should immediately go up.

Comedian
12-06-2011, 19:52
The V1, light LEM trigger, is very nice to shoot as long as you aren't expecting a 1911 or Glock type of short reset. I do not like HK's DA/SA trigger at all, it's really not very nice, worse than Sig for sure. The LEM is smooth and I really like the ergos of the HK, plus I think it looks cool. The big downsides are it's expensive and the mags are expensive. It's really not twice as good as Glock and it costs about twice as much, but I will probably never sell it.

Note, the vast majority of people who complain about HK's service have either never used it and are just repeating what they heard online or bought a used gun with no warranty and expected HK to make it brand new again.

http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/trevdawg48/DSCN0022.jpg

How would you describe the reset, with the LEM?

hoghunter82
12-06-2011, 20:18
P7 is a super pistol, congratulations. I also hope you've learned from the responses to your thread, to sift carefully through them. Most firearms bring both good and bad, when someone tells you it's all good, and that there is no such thing as "the bad" your radar should immediately go up.

I agree. I've owned guns that folks say are flawless (Glock, cz, etc) that were the biggest POS you've ever seen. Conversely, I've had some that folks would say to never buy (I won't list those) that were great. Everyone has an opinion and life experience so no worries from me. It is the buyers job to figure out what is specific to their situation and make a decision.




Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Wrxified
12-08-2011, 16:55
LOL. This thread is kinda funny.

I didn't shoot 250 rounds through the P30 before buying it but I have 1300 so far through it and I've not had one failure. I'm looking at my gun and wondering how in the hell someone would pinch their hand or draw blood if they know anything at all about holding a gun. I've never heard of or seen this happen with this pistol.

Like some of the others have said. The trigger may not be silky smooth but it's insanely accurate. I have guys at the range shooting their fancy dancy custom 1911's going nuts as I shoot groups half their size at the same distance.

adamg01
12-08-2011, 17:08
Have any of you guys experienced any trigger slap with the new P30 or 45? A friend has the .45 and it has some pretty good trigger slap for a handgun. One magazine left a red place on my trigger finger.

Patriot328
12-08-2011, 20:24
Own a P30 (among other guns including a HK45 and 45c, USPc 40, Kimber 1911, Glock 32, Sig220ST, 92FS, M&P9, and a few others that I shoot or shot regularly). In over a thousand rounds I have never had the trigger pinch my finger, nor have I accidentally locked the slide back with the slide released or missed the paddle for the magazine release. I also haven't had a single failure/hiccup of any kind. It's an LEM version and the one drawback, if you will, is a longer trigger reset than anything else I just listed. It's not a deal-breaker, just is what it is. I can't comment on the de-cocker as it doesn't have one.


But whatever, feanor obviously speaks for the majority of the shooting population, so I'll go toss it in the trash tonight.

Larry V
12-08-2011, 20:56
On the contrary, it's you, and a small handful that is on the crusade! A portion of the respondents to this thread are likely not being completely truthful regarding their experience, or in actuality, have very "little real experience" with the pistol in question. One party has said he has three thousand rounds through his P30 without ever encountering the trigger groove, at all! Thats a very unusual circumstance to say the least.

All I have done is illustrate for the OP a few well documented eccentricities associated with the pistol, while it's somewhat unlikley that any one person will have difficulty with every issue outlined, it's also just as unlikely that they will have absolutely none! Todd G. is on record, along with the two men in the link I posted, acknowleging the flaw of the trigger groove, thats a fact.

Its not unusual at all.
You'd think I'd challenged several respondents manhood judging by their reactions to just some honest, well intended criticism, it becomes very tedious. It's almost like "Children Of The Corn" where any uninvited opinion is treated to catcalls of, "outlander outlander!"

The thing fits my small hands like a glove. 3000 flawless rounds and counting. For that matter my USP 45 has also performed brilliantly. I am completely happy with both guns!!

Feanor
12-08-2011, 21:08
The insinuation that people who "know how to shoot" won't notice the trough is ridiculous. If it doesn't affect you, great. But trying to tell the rest of us -- and there are quite a few, if these threads are any indication -- that it's all in our heads or a user-induced problem is childish.

For what it's worth, every serious shooter who has put more than 100 rounds through my P30 in one session has commented on the trough. Some of them have actually lost blood because of it.

Is it a fatal flaw in the gun? Not by a long shot. If it bothers you that much, dremel it as many in this thread have already done. But "it doesn't happen to me so you suck if it happens to you" just shows a dramatic lack of understanding into shooting and ergonomics.
--
Train hard & stay safe!
Todd Louis Green
pistol-training.com (http://pistol-training.com/)
Because I don't suck, and HK doesn't hate me.


LOL. This thread is kinda funny.

I didn't shoot 250 rounds through the P30 before buying it but I have 1300 so far through it and I've not had one failure. I'm looking at my gun and wondering how in the hell someone would pinch their hand or draw blood if they know anything at all about holding a gun. I've never heard of or seen this happen with this pistol.

Like some of the others have said. The trigger may not be silky smooth but it's insanely accurate. I have guys at the range shooting their fancy dancy custom 1911's going nuts as I shoot groups half their size at the same distance.

:faint:You might try reading some of the posted links, and quotes, before falling flat on your face in front of the entire world.

Wrxified
12-08-2011, 21:31
:faint:You might try reading some of the posted links, and quotes, before falling flat on your face in front of the entire world.

You get a kicking out of pissing people off. That's cool.

Let me get this right. You can post your opinion and then whine about why you don't come here anymore. Wahhhhh!!!!!

I post my opinion and success with the firearm and you slam me.

Suck it.

Knighj1
02-06-2012, 11:57
We about to have a typing fight!!!!!!!

josey88
02-06-2012, 20:04
I didn`t get the P30 , but instead I got the HK45C and I can say that it is the best decision I ever made ... this thing wraps around my hand like a glove and shoots like a dream . It cost me an arm and a leg , but it is worth it . I installed the ambi safety/decocker lever kit and it is my favorite carry gun .

ctfireman
02-06-2012, 20:18
The P30 is a beast. Comfortable as could be, super reliable, & the trigger is just fine by me. I feel like i couldn't break it if i tried. It's expensive but i still bought one.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g77/mmsi1002/78ceab55.jpg

carloglock19
02-07-2012, 07:54
Congrats on the new P7 OP!

A-Train
02-07-2012, 11:21
Well I'll throw in my $.02 since everyone else is.

I currently own three HK P30S pistols and I love them. Between the three of them I have exactly 22,441 rounds downrange with a fairly even split between the three. I typically only clean them about once every 2 or 3 thousand rounds just to see how they'll hold up and I've had no issues. They are accurate, reliable, carry well, and I find them to be about perfect size for every 9mm pistol need that I have. In fact when I lay it next to my Glock G19 (Gen3) they are about the same size.

As you can tell I tend to buy multiples of my handguns to have back-ups, range use, concealed carry, home-defense, etc... While not cheap I've been very happy with every HK I've ever purchased. I also have a number of Glocks and like them too for what they are. A simple, reliable, accurate, inexpensive combat/shooting tool. Hard to beat in that regard. That being said when comparing any of my Glocks to any of my HK's there is a noticeable higher degree of refinement, design, fit and finnish, and in my humble opinion beauty to the HK's than the Glocks. Not saying Glock is bad, I just prefer to carry and shoot my HK's these days.

The LEM trigger is a great invention by the folks at HK but I'm a fan of DA/SA so I've learned to use it and be accurate with it both in DA and SA mode. I like the manual safety as an extra layer of insurance when I carry AIWB or on my body. Just check YOUTUBE if you want to see videos of well intentioned people accidentally shooting themselves with their Glock because they didn't clear their holster before reholstering or their finger accidentally got on the trigger during draw or return of the weapon to holster. Not that that is an issue that is Glock's fault, it's purely a training and discipline issue, but when in a hurry even the most well-trained and well-intentioned shooter can make a mistake. Anyone who has shot at speed or under stress knows this to be true. To me the DA/SA with manual safety just gives you an extra layer of protection that I personally like to have and am very comfortable with (but certainly isn't for everyone and requires training to properly master).

In regards to HK's customer service I've only had to use it three times over the past 10 years and each time it's been outstanding. In fact about a month ago I sent my HK45c in to have night sights installed by the factory, sent the gun on a Monday and had it back by Friday of the same week. That's pretty damn fast in my book and the people that helped me on the phone were very nice and helpful. HK's customer service may have been bad in the past (that's what everyone seems to say) but I would say that is no longer the case in my experience.

I also happen to be one of the people that had major extraction trouble with my Gen4 G19 that I bought about a year ago. The Glock customer service people, while nice, didn't seem well informed, and seemed very reluctant to admit that there was any problem with their Gen4 pistols (despite all the talk on this forum and others about the issues). I would not go so far as to say that they were intentionally deceptive with me on the phone but they were pretty close and it left a bad taste in my mouth.

That being said they did do a one-for-one exchange of my G19 Gen4 for any other Glock pistol that I wanted to address the issues (I picked a Gen3 G21SF which has been flawless through almost 4,000 rounds) and this swap took less that three weeks so I'd say that was pretty good service as well. I just didn't like how they seemed "sneaky" and "evasive" to me when I was dealing with them.

I will admit it makes me sad to read threads like this one however where people can't just share information and respect that most brands of gun have many positive (and sometimes negative) features that appeal to a wide range of people. I often feel that I'm "dumber" after reading some of the garbage I find on most gun forums, posted by mall ninja, kool-aide drinking, fan boys of one gun or another. Most people that post this type of rubbish have no idea what they are talking about and are posting their "knowledge" based on what they read somewhere else online or from a very limited experience themselves. Most of the major gun makers today have their ***** wired pretty tight and make a quality product that will serve the majority of users very well. Anyone that makes blanket statements about this gun or that gun being junk typically have no clue what they are talking about and should be ignored.

That's why I respect the opinions of people that actually shoot guns for a living (or at least a serious hobby) like Tood G over at PistolTraining.com. He does his reliability tests with various pistols and puts insane amounts of ammo through a gun (in the case of the P30 it was something like 90,000+ rounds :wow:). Sure he used to work for several of the big gun companies but I don't sense that he's shilling for any particular brand and really does a nice job of presenting the good and bad of whatever platform he is using. I wish all gun forums could be so useful. Seems all most people want to do on these sites is just compare how much they've learned about guns playing Call of Duty or get in Cock Fights with people over the internet. Good times. Maybe I'll start my own gun forum that has some membership requirement, like you need to prove you're not a disrespectful moron, before you can join in the discussion.

I'm now climbing down off my soap-box and returning to the OP's topic. Sorry for the rant :whistling:.

Overall I would say that the P30 is an outstanding weapon and perhaps one of the finest 9mm pistols on the market today. LEM will give you a great trigger pull and is something you should try before you purchase one. I believe that HK actually makes a P30 variant now that his their light LEM and a manual safety. Now that's a nice combo that offers you the best of both worlds perhaps. Whatever you pick just shoot the hell out of it.

cowboy1964
02-07-2012, 12:40
The grip is a good 1/2" longer on the P30 compared to a G19. It's also about 3.1 oz heavier. The rest of the dimensions are close.

Personally I don't see much point in the manual safety with the LEM model. But more choices are better than fewer choices.

A-Train
02-07-2012, 14:26
Good point cowboy1964. It is also a tad bit thicker than the G19 as well. I think it looks a lot bigger when you see the P30 by itself but when you lay them on top of each they are pretty close (inserting a mag in the G19 makes it a tad bit longer in the grip but it is still about .5 inch shorter). I was just surprised by it when I did the compairison.

The big complaint a lot of people have with DA/SA is the lack of a consistent trigger pull between the first DA shot and the subsequent SA shots. A P30 with LEM eliminates that issue by giving you a consistent trigger pull with a manual safety (if someone likes those, like me). One more reason I like striker fired pistols like the Glock is the consistent trigger pull everytime.

Just my opinion of course and i agree with you that more options is more better (LOL).

The grip is a good 1/2" longer on the P30 compared to a G19. It's also about 3.1 oz heavier. The rest of the dimensions are close.

Personally I don't see much point in the manual safety with the LEM model. But more choices are better than fewer choices.