An entire PD - gone. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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blueiron
12-03-2011, 01:56
Arizona has one less police department.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/12/01/20111201youngtown-disbands-police-department.html

boomhower
12-03-2011, 02:22
It's getting more and more common. Interesting how the citizens show support of the police wanting them to stay but don't want to pay property taxes to pay for it. Money doesn't grow on trees folks.


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4949shooter
12-03-2011, 02:35
That's too bad. Let's hope some other agencies absorb the unemployed officers.

Patchman
12-03-2011, 05:37
In August, the town's former police chief, who recently resigned to take a position in El Mirage, told the council he could not maintain police protection with seven officers.

"I will not put an officer at risk. I would rather have an officer alive and out of work than" their family have to bury them.

Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/12/01/20111201youngtown-disbands-police-department.html#ixzz1fTE1vgLr

I found that statement an interesting perspective.

I also hope the laid-off officers get hired elsewhere. And all their pensions, etc... remain intact.

Sharkey
12-03-2011, 08:53
It's a crying shame really. As someone who got laid off, I can sympathize. It really sucks.

That said, I dunno what the property rates are in that county but I bet not having enough tax revenue is not the issue. I'd be willing to bet that HOW the elected officials spend the tax revenue is the issue. That's ok though, the majority of voters don't give a rat's ass. The ship is sinking and so many are still looking for handouts. I'm not bitter though..............:faint:

Politics and a budget crunch led to my downfall. We can get rid of folks topped out and hire new guys and save 20K a pop. Oh make sure they support my party affiliation too. :shocked:

MeefZah
12-03-2011, 09:16
Now I ain't no math whiz, but this sounds to me like they will be paying pretty much the same as they were...

Town Manager Lloyce Robinson presented budget estimates that showed cutting the department could save the town upward of $486,000 from its $1.4 million budget for police in the first year, with the savings increasing over the next few years.

The council approved a $623,000 contract for the Sheriff's Office to provide policing through the end of the fiscal year, June 30. Another contract will be voted on for next year.

$623,000 for the next six months equals $1,246,000 a year. What do you want to bet the Sheriff's Office won't be scaling back their costs after the first six months?


I found that statement an interesting perspective.


Sounds like a load of BS from council, I'm sure they really give a **** about the safety of their officers. Apparently the S.O. will be running one guy a shift which is probably about what the P.D. ran... and 7 guys for a city of 6,000, while not a lot, is enough.

CAcop
12-03-2011, 09:18
So far in San Mateo county Milbrae, Hillsborough, Half Moon Bay, San Carlos all went undr. They are all working for the SO now.

Morris
12-03-2011, 09:27
In these parts, Snohomish and Sultan both got disbanded and rolled into the sheriff's office. Won't be the first as the local Sheriff's are aggressively pitching consolidation of services as a means to save costs (never mind the numbers in costs and personnel never pan out).

steve581581
12-03-2011, 10:28
This just happened near me. The sheriffs hired most of the city officers and for some reason the number of arrests has substantially increased.

fastbolt
12-03-2011, 15:03
Consolidation of services with a county agency can save money for cash-strapped cities, granted. I suspect we'll see more of this until the economy settles.

Fortunately, in some instances with which I'm familiar, the local PD officers were absorbed (although required to pass background checks to be eligible, of course) into an SO, often with pay increases, better benefits and at top step. This is obviously preferable to losing their job if the agency simply folds.

I've also heard of situations where residents were pleasantly surprised by receiving an increase in services, including increased arrests of violators and more patrol presence.

Sometimes local municipalities may decide to merge services (as has been done for Fire), too. The city of Monte Sereno (Santa Clara county), which used to contract with the Sheriff (like Cupertino & Saratoga), is presently policed by neighboring Los Gatos PD (now the Los Gatos-Monte Sereno Police Dept).

BTW, considering how affluent Hillsborough CA is, I doubt they'll decide to give up their own PD. The press only lists 3 cities in that county negotiating with the county for police services ... http://halfmoonbay.patch.com/topics/millbrae
http://www.marinij.com/tablehome/ci_19349670

Morris
12-03-2011, 15:39
More often than not, egos, not finances, drive whether a city will keep it's own PD. WHo's name on the car and all of that.

DustyJacket
12-03-2011, 15:54
... residents were pleasantly surprised by receiving an increase in services, including increased arrests of violators ...

More arrests might mean that the law is doing a better job of catching bad guys, or it might mean that more crime is happening and there are more bad guys to catch.... :whistling:

fastbolt
12-03-2011, 16:58
More arrests might mean that the law is doing a better job of catching bad guys, or it might mean that more crime is happening and there are more bad guys to catch.... :whistling:

Yep. Could mean most anything.

The instances which I have in mind seem to be more indicative of the former, though.

cowboywannabe
12-03-2011, 20:42
officer safety is only a concern for officers. everybody else who uses that term is just paying lip service.

ClydeG19
12-04-2011, 12:04
They are paying MCSO a contract rate of $910k per year. Hell my 7 man dept runs on $380k per year. The square mile of real estate that we're responsible for looks pretty equivalent to Youngstown's area. If hiring MCSO is a deal for the powers that be, what was YPD's budget and why was it that high? Sure our budget is lowballing it a bit (we had a boss that didn't like us very much, but we'll see about whomever is hired to take his place), but surely you could run a PD efficiently somewhere in between $380k and $910k, even with a few more officers that the old chief wanted.

LippCJ7
12-04-2011, 12:22
We see it here in Colorado,

Highlands Ranch which has a population of 107,000(roughly in 2007) is contracted with Douglas County SO

Centennial Population of 100,000 (2010) contracts with Arapahoe County SO

I have heard rumblings for awhile that Lonetree is still considering going to Douglas County SO and uses Parker PD for Dispatch.

Clearly these are good sized cities so this has to be a financial decision.

Tough times bring tough decisions, Like others I hope that these Officers get picked up quickly but I think that Contracting out Public Safety Services is here to stay. I don't know if it will or will not jeopardize Officer safety but I Pray that these tough decisions do not cost any Officers their lives.

ateamer
12-04-2011, 12:43
There is a small PD in our county that could save the city a lot of money by contracting with the SO. They have eight officers, and eight people ranking sergeant or above, and patrol handles about as many calls per shift as each deputy in the county handles on his own in an hour.

DaBigBR
12-04-2011, 13:02
Hell my 7 man dept runs on $380k per year.

That works out to $54k per officer without considering insurance, retirement, vehicles, equipment, fuel, ammunition, training, etc. How is that even possible?

DustyJacket
12-04-2011, 13:09
Who knows, in the future only very large cities will have a police force, and the rest use the local sheriff.

It may not be an entirely bad thing.

blueiron
12-04-2011, 13:09
Contracting out LE services can be efficient and worthwhile for a town or small city, as I have seen in California. The problem is that in Maricopa County, we are saddled with a Sheriff who will handpick deputies known for their community relations skills contracted affluent communities - Carefree, Cave Creek, Fountain Hills, Litchfield Park; whereas he sends the opposite end of the spectrum to communities with low per capita incomes and high minority percentages - Aguila, Guadalupe, and El Mirage.

MCSO was so incompetent in El Mirage that serious incidents of child abuse, sex crimes, and other serious incidents were not investigated or exceptionally cleared. About 500 cases had to be re-opened and investigated again. In many instances, the suspects were known and never contacted.

http://goldwaterinstitute.org/sites/default/files/052109%20Bolick%20Justice%20Denied.pdf
[The Goldwater Institute is a libertarian/conservative think tank in Arizona and brings attention to government abuse of its own laws]

Youngtown is a lower-middle class town that was formerly age restricted. Retirees make up a majority of the residents, but with the inexpensive housing, they are slowly giving way to the less desirables in society. Combine that with MCSO's insistence in undermanning patrol district III with two to three deputies at night that must cover hundreds of square miles by themselves, Youngtown is not going to get what they expect.

It is my prediction that Youngtown will devolve and the town government itself will un-incorporate in the near future. The town currently has virtually no municipal services beyond the mayor/council, the library, the town magistrate, and a few streets-municipal services employees. There was never a fire department, water department, or other services most people identify as an important part of city/town government.

alwaysshootin
12-04-2011, 14:15
It's getting more and more common. Interesting how the citizens show support of the police wanting them to stay but don't want to pay property taxes to pay for it. Money doesn't grow on trees folks.


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What most fail to realize, is the fact, most cities, towns, counties, states, cannot afford 3 police agencies, per area. Taxes are high enough everywhere, and until the spending of 3 forces, can be reduced to just one, reductions, will have to be made. It's a shame, but it's just a plain fact that is coming to a head. Same thing is going to have to happen here in Ohio. One of two things must happen. Reduction in services, or higher taxes, and think most are aware, citizens are not going to vote for higher taxes!

Hack
12-04-2011, 14:28
Next thing you know, (and I wish I was joking), volunteer police departments.

Milltown
12-04-2011, 14:37
It has happened around here some. Most of it comes to budget constraints the other portion comes from all the tickets they were writing to residents of the town. Not saying it is right, but their taxes did pay the officers salary and they ended up with the short end of the stick.

alwaysshootin
12-04-2011, 14:41
Next thing you know, (and I wish I was joking), volunteer police departments.

Had it happen three years ago here in Clermont County, Wayne Township, Ohio. Was put on a ballot, the claim was, they would be self reliant, and no tax revenue was needed. The idea was soundly defeated, and thank goodness for that!

fx77
12-04-2011, 14:44
My community had 5 villages to support the police. Aneentry cop was paid $250,000 including pension benefits etc. Had a 5 car patrol and two detectives. One village dropped out. They found it too expensive to support and started thier own force. Covers one village. They saved big money. The cost ws starting sal at 65,000 + benefits. We had to go to a 4 car patrol, put two detectives in cars, and use the dicks from the county force for coverage...Out taxes are horrible..we have the county tax, village tax, school tax, state income tax, and 8.625% sales tax....
The biggest cost is the medical care and the back end defined benefit pensions. There is only so much $ in this economy . No one wanted to negotiate a pay/benefit reduction, they would rather have layoffs...Those are just local issues and facts.

redbrd
12-04-2011, 14:50
That truly sucks. The saying "Never a Cop when you need one" comes to mind. It is sad that LE's and Paramedics aren't valued more these days. We hand out money to the useless in society but we can't pay or don't pay the ones that have a legitimate purpose (and risk their lives to do it)!!?? Again Sad.

alwaysshootin
12-04-2011, 15:06
That truly sucks. The saying "Never a Cop when you need one" comes to mind. It is sad that LE's and Paramedics aren't valued more these days. We hand out money to the useless in society but we can't pay or don't pay the ones that have a legitimate purpose (and risk their lives to do it)!!?? Again Sad.

What is truly sad, here in Ohio, any way, is for some reason teachers got lumped in with our very needed police and fire. 30% of our states revenues, are spent annually, just on education, and I'm sure the unfunded liabilities, for the retirees is overwhelming. Things look terrible, for Ohio, and it seems inevitable, that bankruptcy is around the corner! Because of these numbers, cut backs, lay offs, and closings, have to occur.

cowboywannabe
12-04-2011, 19:19
police are considered a necessary evil in most towns.

very few of those in society care about what the police do, and they are the only supporters. the rest of the public doesnt want the police around until they get wronged, and then complain about the lousy service that they pay lousy money for.

the best statement here was the fact that we throw money away at the welfare losers of society but wont pay for police officers.

its the old scenario, when youre winning a fight the cops are a-holes, when youre losing a fight the cops are god sends.

ClydeG19
12-04-2011, 20:58
That works out to $54k per officer without considering insurance, retirement, vehicles, equipment, fuel, ammunition, training, etc. How is that even possible?

To be fair, I work for a college pd, so some usual overhead items may not be included. The boss told me he's got $80k for equipment, training, and maintenance to vehicles after personnel costs are taken out.

Con43
12-05-2011, 12:01
the best statement here was the fact that we throw money away at the welfare losers of society but wont pay for police officers.


Guess it's all a matter of who the money get's thrown at :whistling: :whistling:...