Cochese and DaBig help please...and all others who carry 1911s [Archive] - Glock Talk

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rudeboy3
12-04-2011, 21:28
Hey guys, got a couple of questions for you with really nice duty gear. The time has come to where I might be carrying a 1911 for duty and I need some help. First I really want a TRP with a rail but the cost is really hurting me right now(bills and such) so I have an open mind. The approved list is Springfield, Kimber and Colt. I am a huge fan of Springfield ( I have a milspec and it has been flawless) so my heart is there but what about the TLE RL 2 or the Colt Rail Gun? Also with regards to duty holsters, I see you guys had the 6280(which my current Sigs ride in) so if I did get the full rail operator, would it fit the standard 1911 A1 operator with TLR-1 and the same goes with the other models? I see most say 1911 rail with x300 or x400, so is using a TLR 1 going to be a hassle? Pics of gear and 1911s are welcome here as well :embarassed:

Knute
12-04-2011, 21:51
It will fit fine in the 6280 with tac light. It seems like the TLR-1 options for tac light holsters also include the X300 as the same size.

Don't know much about Colt 1911's, since nobody at my PD carries them. If you can't go with the TRP, try looking at their MC model, or their operator. Both of these are fine guns without the bells and whistles. Kimber's are good too. My PD is split between Kimber's and SA for those who carry 1911's. I carried a TRP so I'm somewhat biased towards SA.

rudeboy3
12-04-2011, 23:13
It will fit fine in the 6280 with tac light. It seems like the TLR-1 options for tac light holsters also include the X300 as the same size.

Don't know much about Colt 1911's, since nobody at my PD carries them. If you can't go with the TRP, try looking at their MC model, or their operator. Both of these are fine guns without the bells and whistles. Kimber's are good too. My PD is split between Kimber's and SA for those who carry 1911's. I carried a TRP so I'm somewhat biased towards SA.

Ok thanks for the info. I am also biased towards the SA and the horror stories I hear about Kimber is not helping.

slama683
12-05-2011, 00:29
Ok thanks for the info. I am also biased towards the SA and the horror stories I hear about Kimber is not helping.

I carried a TLE/RL II for a while, and while it was a fine gun, I would say to go with the TRP when you can. My biggest concern with the Kimber was the grip safety not fully releasing the firing pin safety, which caused a click instead of a bang.

After a few hundred rounds, the pistol broke in, and all was good, but if I had it to do again, I would have shelled out for the TRP.

Cochese
12-05-2011, 01:03
Hey guys, got a couple of questions for you with really nice duty gear. The time has come to where I might be carrying a 1911 for duty and I need some help. First I really want a TRP with a rail but the cost is really hurting me right now(bills and such) so I have an open mind. The approved list is Springfield, Kimber and Colt. I am a huge fan of Springfield ( I have a milspec and it has been flawless) so my heart is there but what about the TLE RL 2 or the Colt Rail Gun? Also with regards to duty holsters, I see you guys had the 6280(which my current Sigs ride in) so if I did get the full rail operator, would it fit the standard 1911 A1 operator with TLR-1 and the same goes with the other models? I see most say 1911 rail with x300 or x400, so is using a TLR 1 going to be a hassle? Pics of gear and 1911s are welcome here as well :embarassed:

I would pass on the Kimber for the money they want. The Colt rail gun isn't bad but if Springer is an option... for me it is a no brainer.

A full rail Operator is a special order from the Custom Shop unless you find a reasonably priced used one. As Knute mentioned, a non TRP operator or MC Operator would work fine.

Could you part with the Mil Spec to help fund a new duty gun? If the Mil Spec is flawless, how about having a smith fit a Dawson rail? Maybe add a magwell to that and call it good. Save your money for some ETMs and duty gear?

Ill wait for Brad to chime in on holster specifics because he really knows his stuff there. My recommendation is always the 6280. He likes the 6360. The 6320 is nice as well. A TLR should work in a X3/4 holster. My 6280 does fine with a TLR-1, X-200 and X-300.

Cochese
12-05-2011, 01:05
Oh, and get the triple mag opentop carrier from Safariland that orients the mags forward. It is awesome.

CanIhaveGasCash
12-05-2011, 03:09
Oh, and get the triple mag opentop carrier from Safariland that orients the mags forward. It is awesome.

I second that.

Also, I have owned two kimbers and have sold them both. They haven't been reliable in my experience. Save the cash and get the TRP. I have the railed version and the non railed version as a back up. The railed version is at springfield getting some upgrades at the moment, I can't wait to have it back.

If you do get the railed TRP, buy a fixed rear sight ASAP.

As far as holsters go, I have a 6280, but that is only because I the 6360 was backordered.

trdvet
12-05-2011, 05:50
I carry a Springfield TRP with Dawson rail and a Surefire x300.

CAcop
12-05-2011, 06:16
Also look into the 6285 or at least be ready to change the holster shank to a lower one because that 1911 is long and for me at least I need the extra room otherwise it feel like I have to get my hand into my rmpit to clear leather.

lloydchristmas
12-05-2011, 07:36
Oh, and get the triple mag opentop carrier from Safariland that orients the mags forward. It is awesome.

I'm glad to know this. They look very handy, and wanted to try one, but didnt know anyone who actually used one on duty. No retention issues when running, etc?

collim1
12-05-2011, 08:20
I'm glad to know this. They look very handy, and wanted to try one, but didnt know anyone who actually used one on duty. No retention issues when running, etc?

They offer them with a snap top as well if you are worried about retention.

Cochese
12-05-2011, 08:39
I'm glad to know this. They look very handy, and wanted to try one, but didnt know anyone who actually used one on duty. No retention issues when running, etc?

None. They are perfect. I have the STXtac finish.

verdugo60
12-05-2011, 08:54
I "know" 1911's can be reliable, but I had horrible luck with my 4" Kimber TLE II. I am not a cop, but I carried it for years as a ccw, and it would Crap out after half an IDPA match almost every time. Really pissed me off considering how much $ they are. I ended up selling it and got two plastic guns a Glock and an M&P that run flawlessly. I personally feel much better with these, but if you find one reliable enough to trust your life on go for it. They are accurate and the .45 acp gets it done.

On a side note, I like seeing cops with 1911's on. After my experience I just pray that they will work for them every time.

rudeboy3
12-05-2011, 09:27
Thanks for the info! I am gonna pass on the Kimber then and try to save up. As regards to the holster, ya I run a 6285 for a 229 and a 220 right now and like the lower model. Also Cochese I was considering sending off the milspec to custom shop for some work but it would almost be worth it to just buy another, and I cant sell it on account it was a gift from my gf a few years ago when I graduated the Fire Academy :tongueout:

DaBigBR
12-05-2011, 09:29
I'll second what the others say about picking a gun.

If the full rail Operator is out, then between the two you listed, the Colt is the better gun. That said, I would also look at Smith and Wesson, particularly the E series. An E series with a rail will run somewhere in the $1100 neighborhood, maybe a little less, if you shop. The full rail operator is no longer a catalog item and is probably going to cost you $1,600+. I really don't think you're getting a whole lot more for your money than you would be with a Colt Rail Gun, MC Operator, TRP Operator, or S&W. Obviously you would have the ability to spec out the gun exactly as you want it, but that's going to cost you.

I actually own a TLE/RL II that I bought before I knew any better. I paid around $900 for it in 2006. It's been reliable and everything, but when you put it next to a higher end 1911, the difference is obvious. I just paid $800 for a non-rail E series and it is a substantially better finished gun than the Kimber. Maybe they've got their act together better now, but Kimber is the altar that newbies worship at because they have the biggest advertising budget. I was there at one time, and own two pretty mediocre examples to prove it.

If you're looking at the TRP Operator (the standard half rail version) you will need to keep in mind that it has adjustable sights and that is not necessarily desirable to all law enforcement shooters. Because of the way the slide is milled for the rear sight, your options for replacement are limited. That said, I was going to buy a TRP Operator until I learned about the Pro and went that route.

When you're looking at carrying a 1911 for duty, keep in mind that the factory magazines that come with most 1911s are probably not going to cut it. Good magazines are going to average in the $30/each range (some more, some less), and you're going to want a MINIMUM of five of them, if for no other reason than to avoid pissing off other shooters during qualifications while you constantly reload your magazines. So figure on adding $150 for magazines to the price of your gun. Wilson, Chip McCormick, Tripp Research, Metalform, and a couple others that aren't jumping right out at me are all good to go. I personally run Wilson ETMs and CMC Power+ 10 rounders and have a big pile of older Wilson 47Ds as well.

On holsters:

The 6280 and 6360 are both options for a 1911 with a light. The 6360 to the best of my knowledge only fits the X200/X300 at this point. It will NOT fit the TLR-1/2, M3/6, or any other light. We have tried it and the other lights are simply too large. Factor in around $225 for an X300 direct from Surefire with LE discount if you want to go with the ALS type holster. If the 6280 is acceptable, you have options on which light to go with and can save some green that way. For what it's worth, I've got a basketweave and fine tac 6280 for a 1911 with X200/X300 that I would sell if anybody is interested.

Cochese
12-05-2011, 09:38
I would buy DBBRs finetac 6280.

I would also SERIOUSLY consider fielding the MilSpec with a rail added on. Trdvet, can you post a pic?

Rude, if your girl gave you the MilSpec, I would try and carry that. It would be G2G with a Dawson rail. And you would have plenty of cash for the holster, mags, mag holder, light, rail, etc.

saddlebum
12-05-2011, 10:10
i have one of these and it's been great.on sale for $729
http://www.summitgunbroker.com/SMITH___WESSON.html

rudeboy3
12-05-2011, 10:13
I'll second what the others say about picking a gun.

If the full rail Operator is out, then between the two you listed, the Colt is the better gun. That said, I would also look at Smith and Wesson, particularly the E series. An E series with a rail will run somewhere in the $1100 neighborhood, maybe a little less, if you shop. The full rail operator is no longer a catalog item and is probably going to cost you $1,600+. I really don't think you're getting a whole lot more for your money than you would be with a Colt Rail Gun, MC Operator, TRP Operator, or S&W. Obviously you would have the ability to spec out the gun exactly as you want it, but that's going to cost you.

I actually own a TLE/RL II that I bought before I knew any better. I paid around $900 for it in 2006. It's been reliable and everything, but when you put it next to a higher end 1911, the difference is obvious. I just paid $800 for a non-rail E series and it is a substantially better finished gun than the Kimber. Maybe they've got their act together better now, but Kimber is the altar that newbies worship at because they have the biggest advertising budget. I was there at one time, and own two pretty mediocre examples to prove it.

If you're looking at the TRP Operator (the standard half rail version) you will need to keep in mind that it has adjustable sights and that is not necessarily desirable to all law enforcement shooters. Because of the way the slide is milled for the rear sight, your options for replacement are limited. That said, I was going to buy a TRP Operator until I learned about the Pro and went that route.

When you're looking at carrying a 1911 for duty, keep in mind that the factory magazines that come with most 1911s are probably not going to cut it. Good magazines are going to average in the $30/each range (some more, some less), and you're going to want a MINIMUM of five of them, if for no other reason than to avoid pissing off other shooters during qualifications while you constantly reload your magazines. So figure on adding $150 for magazines to the price of your gun. Wilson, Chip McCormick, Tripp Research, Metalform, and a couple others that aren't jumping right out at me are all good to go. I personally run Wilson ETMs and CMC Power+ 10 rounders and have a big pile of older Wilson 47Ds as well.

On holsters:

The 6280 and 6360 are both options for a 1911 with a light. The 6360 to the best of my knowledge only fits the X200/X300 at this point. It will NOT fit the TLR-1/2, M3/6, or any other light. We have tried it and the other lights are simply too large. Factor in around $225 for an X300 direct from Surefire with LE discount if you want to go with the ALS type holster. If the 6280 is acceptable, you have options on which light to go with and can save some green that way. For what it's worth, I've got a basketweave and fine tac 6280 for a 1911 with X200/X300 that I would sell if anybody is interested.

Wow thanks for the post, I appreciate the detailed answer. I saw that the operator had adjustable sight and was going to change them to a fixed setup but did know they were cut different. I do like the MC Operator and will try and find one of those. I tried over the weekend to find a trade (was gonna do two guns for one) but had no luck at even finding any decent 1911s. I haven't even looked at the Smiths because they aren't approved at the place im going....Cochese, I was thinking of just getting another gun(hell we could all use more right) and using the milspec as a backup to the primary. I have a few guns im willing to part with and I think I might sell a few to fund this project(German made Sig 230SL, 181 series Mini 14, possibly M&P 45 with safariland 6280, 4 mags, don hume OWB, and AZ gun leather hybrid iwb, maybe a glock 27 as well)

collim1
12-05-2011, 10:34
Wow thanks for the post, I appreciate the detailed answer. I saw that the operator had adjustable sight and was going to change them to a fixed setup but did know they were cut different. I do like the MC Operator and will try and find one of those. I tried over the weekend to find a trade (was gonna do two guns for one) but had no luck at even finding any decent 1911s. I haven't even looked at the Smiths because they aren't approved at the place im going....Cochese, I was thinking of just getting another gun(hell we could all use more right) and using the milspec as a backup to the primary. I have a few guns im willing to part with and I think I might sell a few to fund this project(German made Sig 230SL, 181 series Mini 14, possibly M&P 45 with safariland 6280, 4 mags, don hume OWB, and AZ gun leather hybrid iwb, maybe a glock 27 as well)

I'd be interested in the P230, but I'll have to check on the gun budget with the wench. I'll PM you if I can swing it.

Its a shame your dept wont authorize the Smith & Wesson. They make a nice 1911 and that is a good deal at Summitgunbroker.

CanIhaveGasCash
12-05-2011, 14:21
There are a few sight replacements for the TRP operator's Bomar cut, but again that is something that you are going to have to factor in to the cost.

For some reason, most of my 1911's (I have 5), will not lock back on an Empty Wilson ETM. And they are fairly new magazines. I switched to Chip McCormicks and haven't had a single issue.

I would recommend reading through these articles about duty 1911's and 1911 magazines.

http://www.10-8performance.com/pages/Choosing-a-1911-for-Duty-Use.html

http://www.10-8performance.com/pages/1911-Magazines.html

A 1911 is not an inexpensive weapon to operate and maintain. However a property maintained 1911 is a beautiful thing. I have 3000 rounds through my TRP Operator and haven't had a single malfunction.

collim1
12-05-2011, 16:19
There are a few sight replacements for the TRP operator's Bomar cut, but again that is something that you are going to have to factor in to the cost.

For some reason, most of my 1911's (I have 5), will not lock back on an Empty Wilson ETM. And they are fairly new magazines. I switched to Chip McCormicks and haven't had a single issue.

I would recommend reading through these articles about duty 1911's and 1911 magazines.

http://www.10-8performance.com/pages/Choosing-a-1911-for-Duty-Use.html

http://www.10-8performance.com/pages/1911-Magazines.html

A 1911 is not an inexpensive weapon to operate and maintain. However a property maintained 1911 is a beautiful thing. I have 3000 rounds through my TRP Operator and haven't had a single malfunction.

Nice read, thanks.

indigent
12-05-2011, 22:47
Ok, Here's my .02...

I have an MC Operator. It's an amazing weapon. I came from a standard "loaded" SA 1911 and an XD. The fit and finish are surperb and its GTG outta the box. It comes standard with night sights. I run a TLR-1s in a 63 something or other that I got from Cochese and a nice Hoffners quad mag carrier. It feeds great with the mags I've put thru it. Chip Power 10's, Wilson 8 and 10's and even the cheap ones that come with it. I replaced the front night sight with a red Dawson fiber optic and it's an amazing difference, makes the sight pick up so good, even Helen Keller could shoot the qual course....

My only other add on would be a Smith and Alexander Magwell and find a good smith to blend it in...

My shooting partner in the academy had a TLE/RL II and had tons of problems w/ it.

It's your money but I'd buy the MC and move on down the road.

nndavec
12-05-2011, 23:34
Cochese what is the info on your 9mm 1911 that you carry now ? Seems like it was posted somewhere but I was unable to find it.

Goldendog Redux
12-05-2011, 23:41
I carry a railed Wilson and a standard TRP. 6280s for both an X300 on the Wilson. Just get a regular TRP Operator (or an MC operator) and be done with it.

MF

CanIhaveGasCash
12-06-2011, 03:14
Cochese what is the info on your 9mm 1911 that you carry now ? Seems like it was posted somewhere but I was unable to find it.

I believe he had the Springfield Custom Shop build him a 9mm professional, except that since it is in 9mm it can't be called the "professional".

Knute
12-06-2011, 06:38
None. They are perfect. I have the STXtac finish.

We have several guys at my PD using this mag pouch too. They all love it and have not had any issues with them.

nitesite10mm
12-06-2011, 11:12
Why no love here for the 6365 in STX TAC?

My SA had a few parts changed out; namely a steel firing pin and correct FP spring to replace the titanium crap, a Smith&Alexander steel checkered flat MSH to get rid of the SA ILS, an Ed Brown tool steel extractor so I can tune it properly instead of the MIM part from SA.

My advice, FWIW, is to make sure your duty 1911 has a Series 70 system and nothing else. Period. No firing pin safeties of any kind. Nada.

Have good fixed sights on it. Use grease instead of oil.

I mentioned the 6365. I like the lower mount and the 5-degree outward cant. Some others do, and some don't. The STX TAC finish is bomb proof and looks good years down the road.

My magazines are Checkmate Industries 7-rd stainless with GI Hardball feed lips and flat followers with dimples. None finer IMO. Added Pachmyer base pads to them and called it good. No other magazine feeds Gold Dots, HSTs or RA45T as slick and smooth. Checkmate sells them for $24.95 each to the public but sold me as many as I wanted for $12.00 each with verified LEO ID.

trdvet
12-06-2011, 13:16
I would also SERIOUSLY consider fielding the MilSpec with a rail added on.

Trdvet, can you post a pic?

Certainly

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v720/trdvet/DSC02713.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v720/trdvet/DSC02712.jpg

To the OP,

The Dawson rail is more narrow than the factory rails found on the TRP etc. It requires an adapter from Dawson and you'll have to get someone to tap the frame. The standard TRP rail and the Dawson version are not exactly the same so the holster will be a tighter fit with the Dawson. If you're buying a new pistol then just buy one with a rail. If you already have a 1911 without a rail and want one then adding one like a Dawson would be ideal. I have seen aftermarket rails that are as wide as the factory ones already found on the pistols, I just can't remember who sells them.

FM12
12-06-2011, 20:24
Get a S&W sku 108284. Thank me later. Everything u need in a 1911 and nothing u dont.

BuckyP
12-07-2011, 06:30
My SA had a few parts changed out; namely a steel firing pin and correct FP spring to replace the titanium crap, a Smith&Alexander steel checkered flat MSH to get rid of the SA ILS, an Ed Brown tool steel extractor so I can tune it properly instead of the MIM part from SA.

My advice, FWIW, is to make sure your duty 1911 has a Series 70 system and nothing else. Period. No firing pin safeties of any kind. Nada.


Does replacing the titanium firing pin and extra power firing pin spring remove its "drop safety" ability? :dunno:

nitesite10mm
12-07-2011, 09:56
Does replacing the titanium firing pin and extra power firing pin spring remove its "drop safety" ability? :dunno:

I don't live where there is a legislated drop test requirement, so all I did was revert my gun back to original Series 70 design. I think California is the one state whose law forced SA to engineer a way to pass the drop test (i.e.- go with a titanium pin and stronger spring).

nitesite10mm
12-07-2011, 10:02
My point is simply to leave well enough alone and don't carry a pistol with Schwartz Safeties or Series 80 designs or titanium firing pins. There are lots of good 1911s out there that don't futz with such crap.

rudeboy3
12-15-2011, 14:48
So an update for all who helped. I was able to get a Robar finished MC Operator for a pretty good price. It has the TRP style grips, all black finish, front strap is stippled(I wish it was the TRP type 20LPI, but it feels pretty good) so I am happy with it. The biggest thing I want to change is it doesn't have a ambi thumb safety and the trigger is a new short one(although the trigger job is awesome). I will try and get pics in a bit.

Cochese
01-19-2012, 14:07
I believe he had the Springfield Custom Shop build him a 9mm professional, except that since it is in 9mm it can't be called the "professional".

You got it.

PC9112LR rather than PC9111LR.