List of Must Notify states? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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kda
12-05-2011, 16:15
I travel a bit and I think it would be helpful if someone could compile, or point me to, a list of states that have "must notify" provisions in their concealed carry statutes.

Anyone know of such a list?

I do NOT wish to re-open the discussion of should one volunteer the fact they are carrying when it is not required.

Unistat
12-05-2011, 16:26
Michigan is one.

jhoagland
12-05-2011, 16:28
South Carolina and I think North Carolina.

Gary Slider
12-05-2011, 17:14
Here is a map I keep around to answer such questions.

xmanhockey7
12-05-2011, 17:16
Wow I didn't realize how many states don't require you to inform.

Gary Slider
12-05-2011, 17:17
And please no one say you don't have to notify in Texas. It is still in their law that you have to. There is just no penalty if you don't but it is still in their law.

Sec. 411.205. Requirement to Display License.
If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license.

Angry Fist
12-05-2011, 17:20
Wow I didn't realize how many states don't require you to inform.
For sure! I thought it would be more.

In Canton, OH, you had better shout it to the world if a cop gets within 100 feet of you... :whistling:

Numismatist
12-05-2011, 17:27
Those poor folks in Illinois...the only green state on the map. Sad.

TXMary
12-05-2011, 17:31
I guess since I am new to this, I am just naive. Why would you NOT want to tell an officer you are carrying? I do live in TX which is a must notify anyway so I will be notifying when I am carrying. But last time I checked, I thought we were supposed to be on the same side as the cops--the Good Guys. Just them knowing that you have a CHL tells them up front that you are NOT a criminal or you wouln't have gotten it. Maybe I just have had a better relationship with LEO's in our area--my husband was at one time a reserve deputy with the Sherrifs dept. and we have a lot of friends who are LEO's

xmanhockey7
12-05-2011, 17:35
I guess since I am new to this, I am just naive. Why would you NOT want to tell an officer you are carrying? I do live in TX which is a must notify anyway so I will be notifying when I am carrying. But last time I checked, I thought we were supposed to be on the same side as the cops--the Good Guys. Just them knowing that you have a CHL tells them up front that you are NOT a criminal or you wouln't have gotten it. Maybe I just have had a better relationship with LEO's in our area--my husband was at one time a reserve deputy with the Sherrifs dept. and we have a lot of friends who are LEO's
It's not that you shouldn't but that it shouldn't be required by law. Ask a guy in Canton, Ohio what he thinks about it. For those who OC in Michigan it can be problematic if carrying a concealed BUG. The officer is stopping them because they are doing something legal and they shouldn't be required to ID themselves just because the officer is confronting them about doing something completely legal.

TXMary
12-05-2011, 17:44
It's not that you shouldn't but that it shouldn't be required by law. Ask a guy in Canton, Ohio what he thinks about it. For those who OC in Michigan it can be problematic if carrying a concealed BUG. The officer is stopping them because they are doing something legal and they shouldn't be required to ID themselves just because the officer is confronting them about doing something completely legal.

I guess it is because I live in the great state that I do(!) that I don't have a grasp of getting stopped for doing something legal!! MY problem and the only thing I've ever been stopped for is my lead foot!! I admit (with glee!) that as a grandma, at my age maybe I have a different perspective of law enforcement than some of the younger ones or those who live farther north!

kensteele
12-05-2011, 18:26
I guess it is because I live in the great state that I do(!) that I don't have a grasp of getting stopped for doing something legal!! MY problem and the only thing I've ever been stopped for is my lead foot!! I admit (with glee!) that as a grandma, at my age maybe I have a different perspective of law enforcement than some of the younger ones or those who live farther north!

So the question again is this. If you fail to notify the officer, do you think it should be a criminal offense and the carrier is subjected to being arrested?

That's what we are dealing with. I don't want to be a criminal for making a "mistake" because circumstances did not permit me to notify the officer in a timely manner or there was some confusion or mix-up. We can work on the communication and we can be on the same page but I will NOT be a criminal if I don't "do it right." So those type of laws don't stand in KS. You put in place any kind of law you want but laws that make me a criminal for committing harmless and/or benign acts are unacceptable. In my state, failure to notify is not a criminal act. It may be frowned upon or there might be better ways to handle it, but it's not felonious.

If I am driving my car out to lunch minding my own business and I have my boss in teh car with me or my mother-in-law and my tire touches the solid yellow line and a city police pulls me over, in your state you'll be having a three-way conversation about weapons and self-defense between you, the officer, and your anti-gun boss who may change his mind about your promotion or your gun-hating MIL who will tell the rest of the family that you tote a firearm around....a "loaded" firearm. Your law tells you when to have that conversation and how to have it. My law tells me the conversation is optional and private if it needs to be.

It's funny the law doesn't apply to non-permit holders in some cases, so in states like TX where you are allowed to carry a firearm in the car (permit or not), the permit holders have a law to follow and the non-permit holders are somewhat exempt. I don't understand that. It's almost as if you give up some of your right in exchange for a permit.

My 2 cents.

HerrGlock
12-05-2011, 18:43
I guess since I am new to this, I am just naive. Why would you NOT want to tell an officer you are carrying? I do live in TX which is a must notify anyway so I will be notifying when I am carrying. But last time I checked, I thought we were supposed to be on the same side as the cops--the Good Guys. Just them knowing that you have a CHL tells them up front that you are NOT a criminal or you wouln't have gotten it. Maybe I just have had a better relationship with LEO's in our area--my husband was at one time a reserve deputy with the Sherrifs dept. and we have a lot of friends who are LEO's

I'll jump in too and say I see this as exactly the same as a law requiring you to notify law enforcement of any lost or stolen guns.

Yeah, sure, everyone's going to anyway but should it actually be a LAW?

Yeah, you should tell the cop but should it actually be a LAW?

Gary Slider
12-05-2011, 18:46
kensteele,

I agree with you. If a criminal with a felony conviction is stopped by an officer and is carrying a firearm he is protected by the 5th Amendment against self incrimination on informing the officer. At least Attorneys will tell you that is what they would argue and in my opinion they are correct. You don't have to incriminate yourself and have the right to remain silent. But if you are law abiding if you don't tell them then you are a criminal.

It really takes smart politicians to think up laws like this. In Michigan a man handed his license and permit to the officer and then 43 seconds after the officer made it to his car window he stated out loud he had a permit to carry. He was charged and convicted for not informing as 43 seconds was not right away. Go figure.

But the thing of it is us good guys will follow the law while the bad people don't care. This law only applies to the good guys. Again I can't figure out the politicians.

TXMary
12-05-2011, 19:18
well, that's why I am here---to learn all these things that I haven't ever thought of before! You are right--it makes no sense that the law says that if I have a CHL (and all that it entails getting--classes, qualifying, background, fingerprints, etc) i HAVE to tell, but if I haven't gone through that, I DON'T have to tell. I was looking at it from the opinion that I don't care if they know--I would rather tell them up front than have it be a surprise. And since I AM the mother-in-law(!) I don't have to worry about that conversation!

DaneA
12-05-2011, 19:30
I do NOT wish to re-open the discussion of should one volunteer the fact they are carrying when it is not required.

Here is a map I keep around to answer such questions.

/Thread

Why not start yet ANOTHER thread on volunteering information the officer is going to find out about anyway.

Lee-online
12-05-2011, 19:35
PA has no duty to inform.

I will not inform unless I know my weapon will be seen and in a traffic stop, that is unlikely.

By informing you have nothing to gain but potentially alot to lose.

Sam Spade
12-05-2011, 19:48
Map's a tad misleading WRT AZ.

There is no requirement to volunteer the information, but it's a crime to lie or not answer when asked.

HerrGlock
12-05-2011, 19:49
/Thread

Why not start yet ANOTHER thread on volunteering information the officer is going to find out about anyway.

Depends on the state. There are a few that the cop will probably never know unless you tell him.

jb1911
12-05-2011, 19:49
Those poor folks in Illinois...the only green state on the map. Sad.

They voted for the libs. I moved out of Ill-inois and Crook County to Indiana.

Gary Slider
12-05-2011, 20:01
Sam Spade, The map is not misleading. The question ask by the OP was:

a list of states that have "must notify" provisions in their concealed carry statutes.

That is what the map shows.

BK63
12-05-2011, 20:19
I have to say in 30 plus years of driving I have never once been stopped for speeding. However, I have been stopped plenty of times in late night spot checks for drunk drivers. We are not a must notify state. Only once have I been asked if I had anything in the vehicle to which I answered yes. They did the typical take it and unload it and give it back and tell me not to load it until after I was out of their site. The rest of the times I said nothing and never left the vehicle.

Sam Spade
12-06-2011, 07:53
Sam Spade, The map is not misleading. The question ask by the OP was:

a list of states that have "must notify" provisions in their concealed carry statutes.

That is what the map shows.

I know, and I knew. But if you ask the wrong question, you'll get the wrong answer.

I've done this long enough to know that Joe Sixpack is out there who will think, "I don't have to answer that; AZ isn't a 'must notify' state." Sorry, Joe: since you got your information from a map on the Internet that didn't explain the difference between volunteering information and responding to questions, you're under arrest, and the gun's evidence. Oh, you even read the CCW statute and there's no provision? Guess you should have read a bit more.

Incomplete is misleading.

Gary Slider
12-06-2011, 09:42
Actually you don't have to answer their questions. No law says you have to answer their questions. But you do have to tell them you have a permit/license to carry in the listed states or you are breaking a law. You have the right to remain silent. You don't have to respond to their questions.

Sam Spade
12-06-2011, 11:14
Actually you don't have to answer their questions. No law says you have to answer their questions. But you do have to tell them you have a permit/license to carry in the listed states or you are breaking a law. You have the right to remain silent. You don't have to respond to their questions.

Please don't project your view of things onto my state.

In AZ, if you're asked you must notify. I don't care that your map says there is no duty to notify, I don't care what your interpretation is; those things simply don't matter. Further, your blanket statement in the above post is wrong---you can't refuse to answer that question in AZ.

Stop giving BS advice about laws that you clearly don't live under or understand.




ETA: Geezus---you're the co-owner of Handlgunlaw.us? Rant follows: Your advice is factually wrong, and if you rely on it in AZ you are running the high risk of going to jail and losing your permit. Un-freekin-believable, that you (a) put such out and (b) when someone catches the error you continue on your merry way through the thread.

Here, Gary:

ARS 13-3102 Misconduct involving weapons;
A. A person commits misconduct involving weapons by knowingly:

1. Carrying a deadly weapon except a pocket knife concealed on his person or within his immediate control in or on a means of transportation:(...)
(b) When contacted by a law enforcement officer and failing to accurately answer the officer if the officer asks whether the person is carrying a concealed deadly weapon;

Notice that you have to accurately answer, you can't refuse. No, you can't do a "protection against self-incrimination" song and dance---It's legal to carry without a permit in AZ, so there's no crime that you're incriminating yourself about. And this portion of the law applies to all persons, not merely permit-holders. Speaking of permit-holders, there's a separate reference for them:

ARS 13-3112 Concealed weapons;

C. A permittee who carries a concealed weapon, who is required by section 4-229 or 4-244 to carry a permit and who fails to present the permit for inspection on the request of a law enforcement officer commits a violation of this subsection


There's the law---it says just what I claimed. Recap, short version: There is no requirement to volunteer the information in AZ, but you must answer truthfully when asked. Failure to make such a notification is a crime. Your map is wrong, or at the least it relies on hairsplitting "what the meaning of is is" sophistry that will still get Joe Sixpack arrested. Have I left anything unclear?

Gary Slider
12-06-2011, 11:28
Where did I say you didn't have to produce your permit/license? Where Did I State That? I stated you don't have to answer any question an Officer ask you. You DON'T. In the States the law states you have to notify you must notify them first thing. That is the LAW!
But in states that don't have Notify in the law you don't by law have to say you have a firearm on you and have a permit/license to carry it. If you tell them and they ask for the permit/license then you have to produce it just like you have to produce your Drivers License, Proof of Insurance and Registration when ask by an officer. You still don't have to state anything.

Edmo01
12-06-2011, 11:33
I guess since I am new to this, I am just naive. Why would you NOT want to tell an officer you are carrying? I do live in TX which is a must notify anyway so I will be notifying when I am carrying. But last time I checked, I thought we were supposed to be on the same side as the cops--the Good Guys. Just them knowing that you have a CHL tells them up front that you are NOT a criminal or you wouln't have gotten it. Maybe I just have had a better relationship with LEO's in our area--my husband was at one time a reserve deputy with the Sherrifs dept. and we have a lot of friends who are LEO's

Mary, I'm with you...

I'm also one of the good guys. As an upstanding, law abiding, tax paying citizen I have no reservations in telling any LEO I'm legally carrying if contacted.

This isn't an argument over "should I legally be required to tell", but rather as one of the "good guys" I plan to inform the other good guys (LEO) that I'm carrying. For me it is a common courtesy thing and from past experience LEOs appreciate the honesty.

Edmo

redbaron007
12-06-2011, 11:58
The chart is nice; however, I still follow up with the states web sites I will be traversing. I ususally will contact that states atty general for additional info. I did this for the state of TN on whether you were required to notify or not.


:wavey:

red

Sam Spade
12-06-2011, 13:46
Where did I say you didn't have to produce your permit/license? Where Did I State That? I stated you don't have to answer any question an Officer ask you. You DON'T. In the States the law states you have to notify you must notify them first thing. That is the LAW!
But in states that don't have Notify in the law you don't by law have to say you have a firearm on you and have a permit/license to carry it. If you tell them and they ask for the permit/license then you have to produce it just like you have to produce your Drivers License, Proof of Insurance and Registration when ask by an officer. You still don't have to state anything.

Dude, you took the hair-splitting sophistry approach.

You said that you didn't have to notify. If you're going to say that you still have to produce a license, but don't have to notify, because somehow providing the permit isn't actually a notification...that's exactly the incomplete information that I mentioned. Technically correct, and still useless because it addresses the wrong question.

You said you don't have to answer, twice now and with CAPITALS. You're still doing that even after I posted the AZ law that requires you to answer the question, directly contradicting your claim. How can you do that with a straight face?

Gary Slider
12-06-2011, 18:09
(b) When contacted by a law enforcement officer and failing to accurately answer the officer if the officer asks whether the person is carrying a concealed deadly weapon; or

You learn something everyday. That is the only state I have see that specific law in that states you have to answer the officer. The states on the map have a law that states you have to inform the officer without even being ask.

But that holds true in AZ as there is a law specifically stating that like the ten states list that have a specific law you must inform without being ask. That you must do that as soon as the official meet takes place.

Gary Slider
12-06-2011, 18:42
That section was added when Constitutional Carry passed AZ in 2010

or within his immediate control in or on a means of transportatio

(a) In the furtherance of a serious offense as defined in section 13‑706, a violent crime as defined in section 13‑901.03 or any other felony offense; or

http://www.azleg.gov//FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/hb2347h.htm&Session_ID=93

(b) When contacted by a law enforcement officer and failing to accurately answer the officer if the officer asks whether the person is carrying a concealed deadly weapon;

Gunnut 45/454
12-06-2011, 19:06
TXMary
There should be no punishment for not notifing. I live in a state where there is no requirement to notify. If I feel it would be a good idea to ensure the officer is not on edge-IE nightime stop, when I have no Idea why I'm being stopped yea then I'll probably notify just to be on the safe side! Got to play it by ear!:supergrin:

kensteele
12-06-2011, 19:21
Mary, I'm with you...

I'm also one of the good guys. As an upstanding, law abiding, tax paying citizen I have no reservations in telling any LEO I'm legally carrying if contacted.

This isn't an argument over "should I legally be required to tell", but rather as one of the "good guys" I plan to inform the other good guys (LEO) that I'm carrying. For me it is a common courtesy thing and from past experience LEOs appreciate the honesty.

Edmo

What if you cannot achieve good guy status when you are stopped by LEO? If you just ran a red light (which isn't law-abiding at all), you're hardly a good guy in the eyes of the police officer. You're probably just an ok guy. Are you still comfortable with immediately telling the officer you have a loaded firearm knowing that he doesn't quite believe you are an upstanding citizen?

Gary Slider
12-06-2011, 21:12
I updated the map as I learned something. AZ is the only state I know of that has a law that states you must answer a question if Ask. This was added when the passed their Constitutional Carry Law.

Paul53
12-06-2011, 21:23
Thanks for the map!

Edmo01
12-07-2011, 14:07
What if you cannot achieve good guy status when you are stopped by LEO? If you just ran a red light (which isn't law-abiding at all), you're hardly a good guy in the eyes of the police officer. You're probably just an ok guy. Are you still comfortable with immediately telling the officer you have a loaded firearm knowing that he doesn't quite believe you are an upstanding citizen?

What if...

I guess you can come up with a "what if" for an unlimited list of transgressions. "What if you just robbed a gas station and..." I don't plan to intentionally run red lights or commit other recalcitrant acts, but I guess they could happen through negligence on my part. Everyone makes mistakes.

To answer the question of my comfort with immediately notifying an LEO of my carry status - Yes, I'm comfortable with it. Some may not be, but since I don't have anything to hide it really doesn't bother me to be up front with an LEO. Again, I'm not defending the legality of a "must notify" law, but would still do it as a courtesy to the LEO even if it wasn't required in my state.

The few times I have had to "notify" an LEO about my carry status have always been unremarkable. For example, last fall I was rearended at a stop sign (minor fender bender) while I was carrying. When the local police officer arrived and asked for our insurance and DLs I also handed him my CCW permit and advised him, "...and I'm currently exercising this." He looked at it, gave it back to me while nodding his head, and continued on with his business.

I guess if I had run a red light it might have been much worse. :cool:

Edmo

kda
12-07-2011, 17:08
Thanks for the map. Exactly what I wanted when I started this thread. Much appreciated.

kensteele
12-07-2011, 17:59
What if you cannot achieve good guy status when you are stopped by LEO? If you just ran a red light (which isn't law-abiding at all), you're hardly a good guy in the eyes of the police officer. You're probably just an ok guy. Are you still comfortable with immediately telling the officer you have a loaded firearm knowing that he doesn't quite believe you are an upstanding citizen?

What if...

I guess you can come up with a "what if" for an unlimited list of transgressions. "What if you just robbed a gas station and..." I don't plan to intentionally run red lights or commit other recalcitrant acts, but I guess they could happen through negligence on my part. Everyone makes mistakes.

To answer the question of my comfort with immediately notifying an LEO of my carry status - Yes, I'm comfortable with it. Some may not be, but since I don't have anything to hide it really doesn't bother me to be up front with an LEO. Again, I'm not defending the legality of a "must notify" law, but would still do it as a courtesy to the LEO even if it wasn't required in my state.

The few times I have had to "notify" an LEO about my carry status have always been unremarkable. For example, last fall I was rearended at a stop sign (minor fender bender) while I was carrying. When the local police officer arrived and asked for our insurance and DLs I also handed him my CCW permit and advised him, "...and I'm currently exercising this." He looked at it, gave it back to me while nodding his head, and continued on with his business.

I guess if I had run a red light it might have been much worse. :cool:

Edmo

Sorry I shouldn't have used the word "what if" since that threw you off. You brought up the situation and I was just commenting on the situation you presented. It's not truly a "what if" situation with all kinds of possibilities.

So I should have had "suppose you cannot good guy status...." At the stop, you feel you are either a good guy, a regular guy, or a bad guy...or maybe even somewhere in between. It is perfectly ok for people who feel they are good guys to act a certain way and.... and so on.

In my previous question, I was asking if you felt that notified was somehow tied to your good guy status and I was trying to understand if your thoughts changed in any way for those of us who don't get to feel that good guy status.

That was the point of my question. Instant notification is good for a lot of people (including maybe you), just know that it isn't for everyone.

Bill Lumberg
12-11-2011, 08:46
Depends. Are you a permitee carrying legally, or a felon with outstanding warrants?

todd_g
12-11-2011, 09:18
In Michigan, the officer is already going to know if you CCW when they run your plate, but you still need to tell them immediately " I am licensed to carry, and I am carrying." In the instance you are walking about or in an others vehicle, you better be speaking up or get laid out with a knee across your neck.