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thunderbat
12-09-2011, 18:32
Looking at 14.5" uppers with a 1:7 twist and was interested if any thoughts on CMMG complete units.

Mayhem like Me
12-09-2011, 18:36
Looking at 14.5" uppers with a 1:7 twist and was interested if any thoughts on CMMG complete units.

Don't I bought 6 complete full auto m4s from them. 3 had to have new barrels due to out of spec 5.56 chambers two of the barrel nuts had no torque when I took them off.. stay away

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thunderbat
12-09-2011, 18:39
WOW, that's scary. Thanks for sharing...

Two_Clicks
12-09-2011, 18:41
Never had any problem with mine

Mayhem like Me
12-09-2011, 18:53
Never had any problem with mine

The first batch I bought were fine but on the last problem guns the customer service sucks.

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Cole125
12-09-2011, 21:52
I am happy with my CMMG M4 LE upper on my newest build. I have about 500 rounds through it so far, 100 percent reliable and I have shot some sub 1 inch groups at 100 yards with a 3-9 scope. From my research they make outstanding quality products for the price. Its reliable and accurate, what more do you want?

Kampfer
12-11-2011, 12:31
No problem with my CMMG here

ZRiz19C
12-11-2011, 14:23
I have a 14.5 midlength from CMMG that has been great so far, 250rds.

HAIL CAESAR
12-11-2011, 14:54
I have seen a bunch of them. They are nothing special and over priced compared to others on the market now.

Cole125
12-11-2011, 14:57
I have a 14.5 midlength from CMMG that has been great so far, 250rds.

Yeah they work, it doesn't have DD, LMT or BCM printed on it but it gets the job done.

CMMG is military grade stuff, read their specs and you'll see that.

*certified 4150 chrome-moly vanadium steel
*5.56x45 NATO chamber
*1:7 twist
*Hard chrome lined chamber and bore
*M4 feed ramps
*11 degree recessed target crown
*F marked forged front sight base
*Parkerized Barrel including under the front sight base
*A2 Flash hider installed with Peel washer
*Forged A3 upper receivers are T marked and have extended feed ramp cuts *(M4 ramps)

They are now offering cold hammer forged barrels.

HAIL CAESAR
12-11-2011, 15:07
All advertising specs and no proof.

Barrels are said to be the worst in the industry.

Shoddy workmanship, poor CS.

K. Foster
12-11-2011, 16:31
As evidenced by this thread, their reputation for quality and customer service is spotty. Some people are pleased with them, many are not. I’ve spoken to the two brothers that own the company at local gun shows. They can certainly sling the BS. I would look elsewhere.

HAIL CAESAR
12-11-2011, 16:47
If you think the two sons sling the BS, you ought to talk to dad.

He tells so many whoppers it is hilarious.

"CMMG is used by the Special Forces, CMMG has the contract", was my favorite.

faawrenchbndr
12-11-2011, 16:49
Looking at 14.5" uppers with a 1:7 twist and was interested if any thoughts on CMMG complete units.

There are MUCH better options!

WoodenPlank
12-11-2011, 17:06
Looking at 14.5" uppers with a 1:7 twist and was interested if any thoughts on CMMG complete units.

If it's your first AR, I'd avoid a 14.5".

Cole125
12-11-2011, 17:43
Barrels are said to be the worst in the industry.

:dunno: Where did you get that statement from? Before I bought my CMMG upper I talked to quite a few people who had them and they all seemed happy with them.

In fact I have not heard much negative about CMMG outside this forum, from what I understood they were a solid mid range AR company.

HAIL CAESAR
12-11-2011, 17:51
I have seen chamber issues and cant. Barrels are not always centric. Gas ports are all over the place dimensionally.

ADCO has said for a long time CMMG barrels are the worst in the industry.

Cole125
12-11-2011, 18:27
I have seen chamber issues and cant. Barrels are not always centric. Gas ports are all over the place dimensionally.

ADCO has said for a long time CMMG barrels are the worst in the industry.

Well do you think I should get rid of my CMMG upper and get a BCM or whatever? I've got two ARs ones a Stag 24 in barrel for varmint hunting and the CMMG M4 which I depend on for HD, serious use sort of stuff.

HAIL CAESAR
12-11-2011, 18:50
Absolutely not. If yours works......work it.

K. Foster
12-11-2011, 20:30
Well do you think I should get rid of my CMMG upper and get a BCM or whatever? I've got two ARs ones a Stag 24 in barrel for varmint hunting and the CMMG M4 which I depend on for HD, serious use sort of stuff.

No. If yours works, great. Keep it, enjoy it, be happy. However, if you are looking to buy, there are many places that have better QC and CS.

jonbondave
12-12-2011, 01:27
BCM or bust

sigman69
12-12-2011, 22:51
I wanted to say I heard a rumor at a gun show...here in missouri, now you know about rumors being BS but a guy was telling me and my friend that some of the parts on CMMG uppers were actually made in china, now I dont know if that is true or not but seeing other complain about their workmanship I would steer clear.

Mayhem like Me
12-13-2011, 09:48
:dunno: Where did you get that statement from? Before I bought my CMMG upper I talked to quite a few people who had them and they all seemed happy with them.

In fact I have not heard much negative about CMMG outside this forum, from what I understood they were a solid mid range AR company.

Well I took my 3 CMMG uppers to LotharWalther locally and looked inside the chambers and barrels.. they sucked... Horrible machining and good thing we did not put the AAC supressor on them because the barrel was threaded off center on two of them, Chrom plating was uneven, the barrels are NOT GOOD.. now the FA lowers function perfectly with the newly built uppers so NOT all of their stuff is bad but the barrels are crap...and thats what you pay for in an upper.

Cole125
12-13-2011, 19:34
Yeah well my "crappy CMMG barrel" shoots MOA groups, as good as some of my friends rifles that cost twice to three times as much.

Just because a few examples of CMMG products are bad does not mean the all are. Same ****ing deal with gen 4 Glocks. What do guys do when they have a problem with their new gun? Go online and rant about it. Suddenly the company makes the gun now sucks, the model of the gun now sucks, and the dealer they got the gun from sucks... and then idiots repost that crap all over the internet...

HAIL CAESAR
12-13-2011, 20:07
Breathe.....

I'm sure not all are bad. But the numerous ones you hear about, plus one of the biggest shops in the country says he sees A LOT of bad barrel....... Were there is smoke look for fires not petunias.

If yours is good, GOD bless ya.

QNman
12-13-2011, 20:31
There are MUCH better options!

This. There are many much better options.

QNman
12-13-2011, 20:33
Well do you think I should get rid of my CMMG upper and get a BCM or whatever? I've got two ARs ones a Stag 24 in barrel for varmint hunting and the CMMG M4 which I depend on for HD, serious use sort of stuff.

If it goes bang when you pull the trigger and hits what you are aiming at, keep it. Not what I'd buy if looking to purchase, but it isn't going to fall apart in your hands either.

QNman
12-13-2011, 20:34
I wanted to say I heard a rumor at a gun show...here in missouri, now you know about rumors being BS but a guy was telling me and my friend that some of the parts on CMMG uppers were actually made in china, now I dont know if that is true or not but seeing other complain about their workmanship I would steer clear.

I heard it too. Can't confirm or deny.

Cole125
12-13-2011, 20:51
Sorry I just felt the need to rant a little. Its just that the swat guy discouraged the OP from buying what I have and many others have found to be a perfectly good upper, yeah there are better options out there blah blah blah ba hum bug. I talked to a sales rep from Midway USA and they sell hundreds of CMMG uppers a month and have had maybe 10 returned with issues/unhappy customers. I am sure BCM and DD let some duds slip out the door too.

Breathe.....

I'm sure not all are bad. But the numerous ones you hear about, plus one of the biggest shops in the country says he sees A LOT of bad barrel....... Were there is smoke look for fires not petunias.

If yours is good, GOD bless ya.

HAIL CAESAR
12-13-2011, 21:15
Sorry I just felt the need to rant a little. Its just that the swat guy discouraged the OP from buying what I have and many others have found to be a perfectly good upper, yeah there are better options out there blah blah blah ba hum bug. I talked to a sales rep from Midway USA and they sell hundreds of CMMG uppers a month and have had maybe 10 returned with issues/unhappy customers. I am sure BCM and DD let some duds slip out the door too.

I understand.

Gregg702
12-13-2011, 21:26
I have a CMMG M4 that has worked great thru the 300 round I have put thru it, and it only cost $750 complete, so it was a good deal in my mind. Of course, 300 rounds isn't much of a test.

HAIL CAESAR
12-13-2011, 21:48
You probably will not have an issue..BUT if you ever plan to put a suppressor on it have it checked.

shadow65
12-14-2011, 09:00
I always love these BS rumors. Made in China!
I've worked with them doing field testing for over two years.
They, like other manufacturers produce a turd at times.
There is another thread on ARCOM right now with a DPMS barrel having bad threads and baffle strikes. It happens.
Recently, CMMG rejected a batch of barrels with bad threads. So it's not as though it isn't addressed. Most manufacturers expect that flash hiders will be mounted. It's always advised to have the threads checked on any barrel running a suppressor. That said, of all the barrels and makes I have had, tested, and passed on, I have never, ever had a baffle strike. And I have used cans with all of them.
I have several CMMG .22's, a 5.56 Piston upper, a 300 Black Out. I've run suppressors on every one.

CMMG has a 2% return for warranty ratio. 2%! That means 98% evedently run fine.

I remember the PD that was popping primers with CMMG 5,56 M4's. Swore and posted it was bad chambers. The rifles were sent with the ammo to CMMG. Guess what. The Federal XM193 was over pressured. It was the ammo the PD bought, not the chambers.
The 5.56's are test fired using M855 before leaving the factory.

You have to understand, most people that come to forums are looking for a solution to a problem. They don't generally initially join just to sing praises of their favorite product. So you have a negative post, then everyone who had or thought they had that issue chimes in. Couple that with my uncles, cousins, nephews, brother said he heard.

I am able to test many products from many manufacturers. I'm not married to any of them. I do recommend what I find that works.
Every one of them has put out a bad one. So long as they take care of the issue, it's not an issue.

Don't believe everything you see on the net.

Dave N

K. Foster
12-14-2011, 09:02
I wanted to say I heard a rumor at a gun show...here in missouri, now you know about rumors being BS but a guy was telling me and my friend that some of the parts on CMMG uppers were actually made in china, now I dont know if that is true or not but seeing other complain about their workmanship I would steer clear.

I donít know about that but this is what I saw.
I was at a gun show in Springfield, Mo. just before the Obama election. At the CMMG table, they had several rifles with DPMS lowers. These lowers had the standard DPMS roll mark on the left side and had "CMMG" roughly engraved on the right side of the mag well, after the anodizing was applied, showing bare aluminum. I asked them about that. Their reply was that they had made the lowers for DPMS but DPMS defaulted on payment.
A couple months later, this question came up on M4 carbine. The general consensus was that CMMG buys parts from DPMS, instead of the other way around. Which makes much more sense. Most companies buy uppers and lowers from someone else, that isnít a big deal. The issue is that CMMG has trouble being honest with people.
Again, if you like your CMMG gun, Iím not knocking you or your rifle. Iím just saying there are better people to buy from.

shadow65
12-14-2011, 09:11
double

shadow65
12-14-2011, 09:32
I don’t know about that but this is what I saw.
I was at a gun show in Springfield, Mo. just before the Obama election. At the CMMG table, they had several rifles with DPMS lowers. These lowers had the standard DPMS roll mark on the left side and had "CMMG" roughly engraved on the right side of the mag well, after the anodizing was applied, showing bare aluminum. I asked them about that. Their reply was that they had made the lowers for DPMS but DPMS defaulted on payment.
A couple months later, this question came up on M4 carbine. The general consensus was that CMMG buys parts from DPMS, instead of the other way around. Which makes much more sense. Most companies buy uppers and lowers from someone else, that isn’t a big deal. The issue is that CMMG has trouble being honest with people.
Again, if you like your CMMG gun, I’m not knocking you or your rifle. I’m just saying there are better people to buy from.

The general concensus? On M4 carbine, if it's not Colt, BCM, Noveske, or DD, it's crap.

All my CMMG lowers and uppers are Cerro marked. So are DPMS, Spikes, BCM and many others. Why would they have to buy them from DPMS. That doesn't make any sense.

Now I will say, during the self inflicted Obama scare, manufacturers were selling and buying from where ever they could get parts just trying to keep up with demand.
Then you had companies that gouged the hell out of consumers, claiming it was just coincidence. But they were quickly forgiven because of the excellent marketing and hype they spew out.

Conan1
12-14-2011, 11:09
I shot 2 deer from approx 120 yds this Nov. One was at a fast trot, lung shot. Second one was just walking, lung shot. Shooting the Win Ballistic Silvertips .223, no problems and had mine for about 3 yrs. I highly recommend! Nice feed ramps, gas key staking, etc. In fact I'm going to buy another for my wife....HeHeHe

K. Foster
12-14-2011, 12:28
All my CMMG lowers and uppers are Cerro marked. So are DPMS, Spikes, BCM and many others. Why would they have to buy them from DPMS. That doesn't make any sense.

How would they get lowers with the DPMS roll mark, other than from DPMS?
Iím just relating what I saw and was told. You are free to think what you like.

HAIL CAESAR
12-14-2011, 15:45
I always love these BS rumors. Made in China!
I've worked with them doing field testing for over two years.
They, like other manufacturers produce a turd at times.
There is another thread on ARCOM right now with a DPMS barrel having bad threads and baffle strikes. It happens.
Recently, CMMG rejected a batch of barrels with bad threads. So it's not as though it isn't addressed. Most manufacturers expect that flash hiders will be mounted. It's always advised to have the threads checked on any barrel running a suppressor. That said, of all the barrels and makes I have had, tested, and passed on, I have never, ever had a baffle strike. And I have used cans with all of them.
I have several CMMG .22's, a 5.56 Piston upper, a 300 Black Out. I've run suppressors on every one.

CMMG has a 2% return for warranty ratio. 2%! That means 98% evedently run fine.

I remember the PD that was popping primers with CMMG 5,56 M4's. Swore and posted it was bad chambers. The rifles were sent with the ammo to CMMG. Guess what. The Federal XM193 was over pressured. It was the ammo the PD bought, not the chambers.
The 5.56's are test fired using M855 before leaving the factory.

You have to understand, most people that come to forums are looking for a solution to a problem. They don't generally initially join just to sing praises of their favorite product. So you have a negative post, then everyone who had or thought they had that issue chimes in. Couple that with my uncles, cousins, nephews, brother said he heard.

I am able to test many products from many manufacturers. I'm not married to any of them. I do recommend what I find that works.
Every one of them has put out a bad one. So long as they take care of the issue, it's not an issue.

Don't believe everything you see on the net.

Dave N

I hate BS rumors too. We agree on that.
I also hate the BS the CMMG boys and their dad spew at gun shows. That crap around here is legendary.

So your a product tester??? I bet they send you gear right off the rack that they never looked over...:upeyes:

Is the "2%" number a number they gave you? Also most users would never know about non-centric barrels. Only a scarce few ever suppress. Even fewer know much about guns...as long as the bullets fly out one end every one is happy right?

It also stands as my opinion that CMMG's barrels are they worst I have ever seen. This is backed up by other knowledgeable people that have seen many of their barrels.

shadow65
12-14-2011, 17:04
I've suppressed every AR I have, including 6 CMMG uppers. I've never had a baffle strike. Any manufacturer can put out a barrel with non concentric threads. And you are correct. Most would never know.
I've never met Dad but I have spoke to both brothers and met them a few times at shows. I'm not following you on the "Bull****". The only issue I ever had with them is time frames for product release.
Yes, the 2% is a number they gave me. I also do tech on several web forums for different manufacturers and am able to see a pretty good slice of who is doing what and what is going on with their particular product.
So far as CMMG sending me or us(I work with 2 other testers) some special builds, I don't think so. The reason I don't is because, again, I check the results other users are turning in and compare them to ours. If something is way off in performance, I know there is an issue with his particular rifle. Then we trouble shoot from there. If there is any issue that needs to be fixed, CMMG has gone out of their way to make it right.
Now what ever happened over two years ago, which is where most of the complaints seem to come from, I don't know. I had no dealings with them then. I can only tell you how it is now.
Dave N
I hate BS rumors too. We agree on that.
I also hate the BS the CMMG boys and their dad spew at gun shows. That crap around here is legendary.

So your a product tester??? I bet they send you gear right off the rack that they never looked over...:upeyes:

Is the "2%" number a number they gave you? Also most users would never know about non-centric barrels. Only a scarce few ever suppress. Even fewer know much about guns...as long as the bullets fly out one end every one is happy right?

It also stands as my opinion that CMMG's barrels are they worst I have ever seen. This is backed up by other knowledgeable people that have seen many of their barrels.

Cole125
12-14-2011, 19:15
The general concensus? On M4 carbine, if it's not Colt, BCM, Noveske, or DD, it's crap

:rofl: Yeah thats how it is around here as well as you probably noticed.

By the way thanks for your input, its good to hear from someone who knows what they are talking about.

HAIL CAESAR
12-14-2011, 20:16
Well Guns & Ammo writers know what they are talking about too. But in all my yeas I have never seen anything but a glowing review of Taurus guns.

I see lots of Oly Arms fans too. But at least they do make good barrels.

They spread the BS like CMMG too with all the Delta Force contracts and other such nonsense.

K. Foster
12-14-2011, 21:16
. I also do tech on several web forums for different manufacturers and am able to see a pretty good slice of who is doing what and what is going on with their particular product.

Which forums? Iíd like to read some of your stuff.

shadow65
12-15-2011, 18:45
Well Guns & Ammo writers know what they are talking about too. But in all my yeas I have never seen anything but a glowing review of Taurus guns.

I see lots of Oly Arms fans too. But at least they do make good barrels.

They spread the BS like CMMG too with all the Delta Force contracts and other such nonsense.

I have never once heard any mention of Delta, S.F. or anything even close. And I speak to these guys often. They know my back ground and have never ask any stupid questions regarding the work I did.

And no, I wasn't a Commando. I was L.E. and a member of the E.R.T.
Dave

shadow65
12-15-2011, 18:57
Which forums? I’d like to read some of your stuff.

I called John and asked about the DPMS lowers. He stated he had no idea.
I appologize if I came off like I didn't believe you. It just didn't make sense to me.
I was not there so if you saw it, so be it. But again, my experience with them, other than time frames, has been a good one.
I did get one bad barrel from them. It was replaced.

Another thing about testers. We do not get everything free. There is some. Most is returned after test/evaluation.
I just sent one rifle back to DPMS 2 days ago.

We don't put a golden stamp on everything we test. Chances are, if there was a problem with a product, the manufacturer is called and a solution found. That is the whole purpose.

I don't write for Gun Rags and am not paid by the manufacturers. I do it because I enjoy it and have the time to do it.

I spend a small fortune on ammo every year testing product. So what little I do get to keep, doesn't make up for the expense of ammo, range time, and gas to get there.

I post reviews and answer tech questions on:
AR15.com
Calguns
AR15Armory
Gunsnet LLC
Perfect Union
M4 Carbine
Assaultweb.net
Rimfire Central
XDForums
And a couple others.

I'm not an expert. I test, review what I find. I answer questions from my experience with the particular weapon or system asked about.
I shoot an average of 700 rounds a week, various calibers.
I am a retired L.E.O. and a U.S. Navy Veteran.

I am currently testing a DPMS AR .22 Bull Barrelled Upper.
I have a new collapsible stock coming in next week from Loki.
Over the last 5 years I have tested for:
Spikes
CMMG
DPMS
Kies
Clint Beyer
Midwest Industries
Primary Arms
and others.

So there is my information.

HAIL CAESAR
12-15-2011, 19:57
I have never once heard any mention of Delta, S.F. or anything even close. And I speak to these guys often. They know my back ground and have never ask any stupid questions regarding the work I did.

And no, I wasn't a Commando. I was L.E. and a member of the E.R.T.
Dave

First and far most I feel I owe you an apology. I more than came off as snarky to you in my post. I really did not mean any of it. I sincerely apologize. I type like I talk....and since you can't hear a sense of humor it comes off as an asshat on the puter.

The things I have personally heard at guns shows usually (99.1 percent of it) came from dad. It was so bad if he now said water was wet..I wouldn't believe him.

Their other irritating issue with me is their CS. If the person on the phone messes up an order and does not ship something while still insisting (very rudely) that she did......DO NOT COMPLAIN!!! You will not recieve any resolution with the boys. Mostly because the woman insisting she did not screw up was one of the boy's wives or their mother!:upeyes: Your never going to win with the wives or Momma standing right there telling the boys that you, the customer, are wrong and that they did not screw up. I don't remember all they have stiffed me for, but it added up to a couple of hundred before I gave up on them and will no longer buy/sell/recommend a damn thing form them. (That is aside of the messed up barrels I have seen)

I once remember fighting on the phone with Momma and one wife about a package I ordered and never recieved. It went on for weeks with them saying "we shipped it". Finally the other wife answered the phone and said "Let me get on a cordless and I'll look around.......Oh, here it is....it fell behind a desk.":upeyes:

shadow65
12-15-2011, 20:37
I have heard all the bad CS stories before. Enough of them that I do believe it happened. But as I said, every one of these incidents happened more than 2 years ago. That is when I starting testing for them.
I spend a lot of time helping guys get any issues resolved with the companies I test for.
In my time dealing with them, customer service has been top notch. It is something I stressed to them from the beginning.
Every company will send out a bad part. How it's handled is what counts. I have not once requested an issue be resolved that CMMG didn't go out of their way to fix.
There was a batch of 6.5" .22 barrels recently that had non concentric threads. When it was discovered, because one of my guys contacted me, the barrels were scrapped, new barrels cut and threaded. Not one more complaint since. This is what I expect. If it isn't so, I won't stick around.
I have heard some real horror stories about dad and Blackrifle gun shop. I have no influence there. But then I don't have to deal with those guys.
If you have any issues with a product from CMMG, let me know. I will do my very best to get it taken care of.
Dave

Cole125
12-15-2011, 20:51
Dave, how will I be able to tell if I have any problems with my CMMG upper or barrel? I have about 500 rounds through it now, and accuracy has been sub MOA if I do my part. Is 500 round enough of a test to tell if my upper is good to go?

shadow65
12-15-2011, 21:06
Dave, how will I be able to tell if I have any problems with my CMMG upper or barrel? I have about 500 rounds through it now, and accuracy has been sub MOA if I do my part. Is 500 round enough of a test to tell if my upper is good to go?

What upper do you have?

Cole125
12-15-2011, 21:11
What upper do you have?

I have the M4 LE model.

shadow65
12-15-2011, 21:51
I have the M4 LE model.

5.56 or .22?

After 500 rounds either should be fine. Break in is over.

If it's a stainless action .22, very little break in is needed.
The biggest issue the .22's have is the BHOA. Because of different tolerances from lowers and uppers, sometimes it can be a pain to adjust.
If you have issues with that, I can help.
500 rounds you should be getting good accuracy. Mine took about 300 rounds to get the barrel seasoned. It went from 1" at 25 yards to 1" at 50 yards.
Dave

Cole125
12-15-2011, 22:10
5.56 or .22?

After 500 rounds either should be fine. Break in is over.

If it's a stainless action .22, very little break in is needed.
The biggest issue the .22's have is the BHOA. Because of different tolerances from lowers and uppers, sometimes it can be a pain to adjust.
If you have issues with that, I can help.
500 rounds you should be getting good accuracy. Mine took about 300 rounds to get the barrel seasoned. It went from 1" at 25 yards to 1" at 50 yards.
Dave

I would also like to get the .22 lr, but the one I have is the 5.56. I do have a concern the fit between the upper and lower is a little loose, but other than that its been great. Anyways what I was trying to ask is how do I tell if there is a possible issue with the barrel?

TexasVine
12-15-2011, 22:29
I shot a 6.8 SPC for awhile and was very pleased with the CMG upper.

shadow65
12-16-2011, 10:24
I would also like to get the .22 lr, but the one I have is the 5.56. I do have a concern the fit between the upper and lower is a little loose, but other than that its been great. Anyways what I was trying to ask is how do I tell if there is a possible issue with the barrel?

If you have not had issues in 500 rounds, I doubt there are any.
Issues would be seen early on. This applies to all manufacturers.
I have read several complaints from different manufacturers of tight chambers, .223 instead of 5.56 chambers. If that was the case, you would see stuck cases, and possible blowing primers because of the over pressure from an out of spec chamber using 5.56

I have never had any problems with my 5.56 CMMG barrels. They are shot before shipment using m855. Not an accuracy test, a function test.

Very few manufacturers turn their own barrels. What they do is have a certain spec that they are responsible to stay on top of.
My favorite CMMG upper is my 11.5" piston upper. Has good accuracy, has never missed a shot. My only issue with it is I would rather see a quick take down plug instead of the screw in plug.

I tested a 7.5" CMMG piston upper. A copper washer failed in the piston block and it started short stroking. In all fairness, it had a lot of pressure on it because I was running it suppressed.
CMMG redesigned the gas block, now using a 1 piece plug design.
They do listen and pay attention.
Dave N

K. Foster
12-16-2011, 17:49
I do have a concern the fit between the upper and lower is a little loose, but other than that its been great. Anyways what I was trying to ask is how do I tell if there is a possible issue with the barrel?

Some play between upper and lower is to be expected. Better too loose than too tight. If you havenít had a problem in 500 rounds, youíll be fine.

shadow65
12-16-2011, 19:38
I see a lot of guys try to break a rifle in with Wolf, Tula, or some other low powered ammo.
I always recommend breaking in with full powered ammo. Shoot the cheap stuff down the line.
I also lube and hand cycle my new builds 200 times before ever hitting the range. Then clean and lube again.
It helps wear the parts together.
Dave N

Scattergun1187
12-16-2011, 20:19
I've had a CMMG 10.5" SBR for about 5 years and have had no problems.
I also have a BCM 14.5", but haven't had the chance to get to the range with it yet.
maybe in a week or 2.

K. Foster
12-16-2011, 20:29
If your AR is of even average quality, you shouldn’t have to break it in. I’ve purchased new rifles from Colt, LMT, RRA and BCM. They have all been reliable right out of the box.

Cole125
12-16-2011, 21:20
Dave,

Thanks for the input and good to hear. I'll be putting a few hundred more rounds down range with the CMMG this weekend along with doing some 300 yard shooting so we'll see how that goes.

Cole125
12-16-2011, 21:21
Some play between upper and lower is to be expected. Better too loose than too tight. If you havenít had a problem in 500 rounds, youíll be fine.

Have you heard of the Accu Wedge devices the supposably reduce upper/lower wiggle. Any opinion on those?

WoodenPlank
12-16-2011, 22:28
Have you heard of the Accu Wedge devices the supposably reduce upper/lower wiggle. Any opinion on those?

While they reduce wiggle, they also can cause undue wear on the rear takedown pin holes. Considering upper/lower play has 0 effect on accuracy, why bother?

NeverMore1701
12-17-2011, 01:12
While they reduce wiggle, they also can cause undue wear on the rear takedown pin holes. Considering upper/lower play has 0 effect on accuracy, why bother?

They can also come apart and gum up your FCG.

Disregarded9-side
12-17-2011, 02:33
Have you heard of the Accu Wedge devices the supposably reduce upper/lower wiggle. Any opinion on those?

If it's so bad that it wobbles when you pull the trigger, it probably does effect accuracy. I've seen this on a LWRC of all things. My M4 wiggles a bit, not that bad, but it irks me a little.

As opposed to paying for an AccuWedge, I tear a foam ear guard in half and stuck part under the rear take down pin. Squeeze the receivers together and pin her up---rock solid.

K. Foster
12-17-2011, 15:36
Have you heard of the Accu Wedge devices the supposably reduce upper/lower wiggle. Any opinion on those?

Iíve tried the Accu wedge, it did not improve accuracy. As others have said, itís of no real value. Some movement between upper and lower is normal.

WoodenPlank
12-17-2011, 18:32
They can also come apart and gum up your FCG.

This, too.

Singlestack Wonder
12-18-2011, 15:35
CMMG = Busmaster, DPMS, RRA, Stag, Olympus, PSA, etc. (i.e. junk)

Go with Bravo Company, Colt, or Daniel Defense (for close to the same price!)

HAIL CAESAR
12-18-2011, 16:13
CMMG = Busmaster, DPMS, RRA, Stag, Olympus, PSA, etc. (i.e. junk)

Go with Bravo Company, Colt, or Daniel Defense (for close to the same price!)

Really?

faawrenchbndr
12-18-2011, 16:25
CMMG = Busmaster, DPMS, RRA, Stag, Olympus, PSA, etc. (i.e. junk)

Go with Bravo Company, Colt, or Daniel Defense (for close to the same price!)

:popcorn:

Javelin
12-18-2011, 16:41
All advertising specs and no proof.

Barrels are said to be the worst in the industry.

Shoddy workmanship, poor CS.

I must agree. They are not the manufacturer I would be dropping any coin on. Stop buying crap that you will just regret 3 years from now (or possibly sooner).

Seriously with all the awesome builders out there right now (Daniel Defense, Bravo Company, LMT, Colt, and Noveske) and really good prices just buy one that is known and trusted for producing quality.

Scattergun1187
12-18-2011, 18:05
CMMG Bash thread is what this should have been called.

faawrenchbndr
12-18-2011, 18:34
CMMG Bash thread is what this should have been called.


Truth hurts.........?! :dunno:

Roger1079
12-18-2011, 19:56
I have experience with CMMG .22LR conversions and their 9mm 16" barrel uppers and dedicated 9mm lowers. I have never had a problem with either the .22LR conversion or the 9mm complete upper I got from them that is going to be used on an SBR build. The range i frequent has a full auto 9mm with CMMG's dedicated lower and matched upper receivers. This rifle also functions flawlessly. They arent the best in the business, but for the money I see them as a reasonable option. Got my complete 9mm upper for $525.

Roger1079
12-18-2011, 20:20
I must agree. They are not the manufacturer I would be dropping any coin on. Stop buying crap that you will just regret 3 years from now (or possibly sooner).

Seriously with all the awesome builders out there right now (Daniel Defense, Bravo Company, LMT, Colt, and Noveske) and really good prices just buy one that is known and trusted for producing quality.Those rifles all basically start at $1300 and up with the exception of BCM. And its almost laughable that you used Noveske and good prices in the same sentence. Not saying you aren't getting what you pay for, but anything beyond a base model from Noveske and you are looking at a near $2000 price tag. Daniel Defense, Colt, and LMT arent too far behind that. I own two black rifles right now. One is a 2006 LWRC M6 which I paid top dollar for and the other is a frankenstein that is in the middle of waiting on a Form1. The parts in that rifle are a S&W M&P15 lower, DPMS lower parts kit, RRA 9mm magwell block, and a CMMG complete 9mm upper. Whenever BATFE sends me my stamp, it will have a Tros 5" 3 lug installed, but for now, the 16" barreled complete CMMG upper is on it. I have about 1000 rounds through it with no issues, accuracy or reliability wise.

The point I'm trying to make with my long winded post is that my $1600 LWRC rifle shoots just as accurately and reliably as my $800 multiple munufacturer build. Both rifles accuracy are limited by my skill when shooting them and not the parts in them.

HAIL CAESAR
12-18-2011, 20:38
Besides Novekse...

CMMG is in the same price range as LMT, Colt, DD, BCM.

CMMG is swept under the rug in the price point they run it.

NeverMore1701
12-18-2011, 20:41
Those rifles all basically start at $1300 and up with the exception of BCM. And its almost laughable that you used Noveske and good prices in the same sentence. Not saying you aren't getting what you pay for, but anything beyond a base model from Noveske and you are looking at a near $2000 price tag. Daniel Defense, Colt, and LMT arent too far behind that. I own two black rifles right now. One is a 2006 LWRC M6 which I paid top dollar for and the other is a frankenstein that is in the middle of waiting on a Form1. The parts in that rifle are a S&W M&P15 lower, DPMS lower parts kit, RRA 9mm magwell block, and a CMMG complete 9mm upper. Whenever BATFE sends me my stamp, it will have a Tros 5" 3 lug installed, but for now, the 16" barreled complete CMMG upper is on it. I have about 1000 rounds through it with no issues, accuracy or reliability wise.

The point I'm trying to make with my long winded post is that my $1600 LWRC rifle shoots just as accurately and reliably as my $800 multiple munufacturer build. Both rifles accuracy are limited by my skill when shooting them and not the parts in them.

Got my Noveske upper for right around $800 last year and it came with a free blemished lower. Easily under $1k for a complete, if sparse, rifle. Stick to basic mil-spec lower parts and $900 wouldn't be difficult.

HAIL CAESAR
12-18-2011, 20:53
I put together a Noveske skinny with a slightly used barrel for 8 bills.

And I keep hearing CMMG barrels will shoot MOA. If they do I never seen one, and if they did they would do something no CL barrel on the market that does so.

Roger1079
12-18-2011, 20:56
Got my Noveske upper for right around $800 last year and it came with a free blemished lower. Easily under $1k for a complete, if sparse, rifle. Stick to basic mil-spec lower parts and $900 wouldn't be difficult.I doubt a free blemished lower is the norm for all of their upper orders though. With a blemish free lower receiver with decent lower parts (with a decent trigger) and a set of folding irons and you are back around the $1300 mark if you put it together yourself. If you look at Noveske's complete offerings, they start at $1500 for the low end up to $2500 plus. Noveske definitely make's a high quality product, but in my case at least, my G30 or Mossberg 590 will get picked up long before either of my black rifles for defensive purposes, so an $800 average quality rifle that is still only limited by my ability to shoot is perfect for me which is why I chose the CMMG upper and DPMS lower parts kit for this build. Being that my rifles will only ever shoot paper, I just cant justify all the extra coin. Would I turn down a Noveske rifle at a good price? HELL NO! Will I pay retail price for products that I wont be able to shoot any better than the rifle that cost me 50% as much? That is an emphatic no also.

HAIL CAESAR
12-18-2011, 21:10
http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo349/hailcaesar_photos/NoveskeLW145.jpg

I build this rifle for $820'ish.


It is a home brewed rifle. The following is the what and how much.

It started off with looking for a barrel. Samuse from this site PM'ed me with a offer for a very,very slightly used (200'ish rounds) 14.5 LW Middy barrel from Noveske. The barrel, pinned Vortex flash hider, FSB, gas tube, Magpul Moe guards, and nut were purchased for $230 shipped. (Thank you very much Sam)
The barrel group came off a factory Noveske Skinny Moe. I still haven't gotten around to stripping the paint off the lower Moe guard.

I had an upper and lower, but decided (what the heck) and got a Noveske matched upper and lower. $285.

I had a take off CTR stock that I had bought for $45 bucks.
A takeoff Ergo for $10.
A Colt BCG and FCG I bought for $125 unused.
A barely usedTLR-1 for $65.
A barely used Aimpoint H-1 with ADM mount....$375.

The following I just ordered from Brownell's;

A DSA tube and Magpul BUIS for $18 and $44.
BCM Gunfighter Medium for $41.
Moe trigger guard..$7
Moe rail...$5

Ambi Safety I had laying around and forgot when/where/how much.
Same with Forward Assist..but they run $10.
Other parts I have laying around in bins.


Look around buy right and good. Cry once and get a decent rifle.

QNman
12-18-2011, 21:16
CMMG = Busmaster, DPMS, RRA, Stag, Olympus, PSA, etc. (i.e. junk)

Go with Bravo Company, Colt, or Daniel Defense (for close to the same price!)

:brickwall:

NeverMore1701
12-18-2011, 21:29
http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo349/hailcaesar_photos/NoveskeLW145.jpg

I build this rifle for $820'ish.


It is a home brewed rifle. The following is the what and how much.

It started off with looking for a barrel. Samuse from this site PM'ed me with a offer for a very,very slightly used (200'ish rounds) 14.5 LW Middy barrel from Noveske. The barrel, pinned Vortex flash hider, FSB, gas tube, Magpul Moe guards, and nut were purchased for $230 shipped. (Thank you very much Sam)
The barrel group came off a factory Noveske Skinny Moe. I still haven't gotten around to stripping the paint off the lower Moe guard.

I had an upper and lower, but decided (what the heck) and got a Noveske matched upper and lower. $285.

I had a take off CTR stock that I had bought for $45 bucks.
A takeoff Ergo for $10.
A Colt BCG and FCG I bought for $125 unused.
A barely usedTLR-1 for $65.
A barely used Aimpoint H-1 with ADM mount....$375.

The following I just ordered from Brownell's;

A DSA tube and Magpul BUIS for $18 and $44.
BCM Gunfighter Medium for $41.
Moe trigger guard..$7
Moe rail...$5

Ambi Safety I had laying around and forgot when/where/how much.
Same with Forward Assist..but they run $10.
Other parts I have laying around in bins.


Look around buy right and good. Cry once and get a decent rifle.

Hush, you obviously can't put together a Noveske anything for under $1300.

Javelin
12-18-2011, 23:38
Those rifles all basically start at $1300 and up with the exception of BCM. And its almost laughable that you used Noveske and good prices in the same sentence. Not saying you aren't getting what you pay for, but anything beyond a base model from Noveske and you are looking at a near $2000 price tag. Daniel Defense, Colt, and LMT arent too far behind that. I own two black rifles right now. One is a 2006 LWRC M6 which I paid top dollar for and the other is a frankenstein that is in the middle of waiting on a Form1. The parts in that rifle are a S&W M&P15 lower, DPMS lower parts kit, RRA 9mm magwell block, and a CMMG complete 9mm upper. Whenever BATFE sends me my stamp, it will have a Tros 5" 3 lug installed, but for now, the 16" barreled complete CMMG upper is on it. I have about 1000 rounds through it with no issues, accuracy or reliability wise.

The point I'm trying to make with my long winded post is that my $1600 LWRC rifle shoots just as accurately and reliably as my $800 multiple munufacturer build. Both rifles accuracy are limited by my skill when shooting them and not the parts in them.

Go on over to M4Carbine.net and see what is being offered up in terms of complete uppers. Yeah you might have to spend a few weeks scouring the equipment exchange but not too long honestly. Figere you pony up $600-$800 for a high quality upper.

Then while you are at it get a good deal on a stripped lower (I have seen them for as low as $50 lately... hell I saw a complete LMT lower for $150 w/o buttstock not too long ago here locally. I have also even seen Noveske lowers for a decent price too) and you got yourself an AWESOME rifle for under a grand that will smoke the living pants off any CMMG offerings.

Javelin
12-18-2011, 23:42
http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo349/hailcaesar_photos/NoveskeLW145.jpg

I build this rifle for $820'ish.


It is a home brewed rifle. The following is the what and how much.

It started off with looking for a barrel. Samuse from this site PM'ed me with a offer for a very,very slightly used (200'ish rounds) 14.5 LW Middy barrel from Noveske. The barrel, pinned Vortex flash hider, FSB, gas tube, Magpul Moe guards, and nut were purchased for $230 shipped. (Thank you very much Sam)
The barrel group came off a factory Noveske Skinny Moe. I still haven't gotten around to stripping the paint off the lower Moe guard.

I had an upper and lower, but decided (what the heck) and got a Noveske matched upper and lower. $285.

I had a take off CTR stock that I had bought for $45 bucks.
A takeoff Ergo for $10.
A Colt BCG and FCG I bought for $125 unused.
A barely usedTLR-1 for $65.
A barely used Aimpoint H-1 with ADM mount....$375.

The following I just ordered from Brownell's;

A DSA tube and Magpul BUIS for $18 and $44.
BCM Gunfighter Medium for $41.
Moe trigger guard..$7
Moe rail...$5

Ambi Safety I had laying around and forgot when/where/how much.
Same with Forward Assist..but they run $10.
Other parts I have laying around in bins.


Look around buy right and good. Cry once and get a decent rifle.

You know Caesar - liars make Jesus cry. :tongueout:

Scattergun1187
12-19-2011, 06:03
Truth hurts.........?! :dunno:

No Lies hurt. :faint:My CMMG 10.3" SBR does have a JP BCG, Timney Drop in 3.5lb. trigger, KNS anti roll pins, and a few other mods. Does that still mean it is a POS?
Never had a problem or failure.
I do have a BCM for all those haters.

"Most of CMMG's rifles have far more "technical data package" features than S&W, Bushmaster, Rock River Arms, or Stag, etc.- but not as many as (the higher price range) Colt, BCM, or Daniel Defense.

CMMG probably is the best choice of AR maker in the middling price range."

DieselNut
12-19-2011, 06:41
Mmmmm tactical bacon

Scattergun1187
12-19-2011, 08:45
:popcorn:

bmoore
12-19-2011, 09:32
CMMG = Busmaster, DPMS, RRA, Stag, Olympus, PSA, etc. (i.e. junk)

Go with Bravo Company, Colt, or Daniel Defense (for close to the same price!)

Oh jeez:upeyes: I guess I should have expected it from a What Would Larry Vickers Do? (WWLVD) disciple.

DieselNut
12-19-2011, 09:51
Oh jeez:upeyes: I guess I should have expected it from a What Would Larry Vickers Do? (WWLVD) disciple.

Watch out you'll have the armchair commandos after you :rofl:

bmoore
12-19-2011, 10:01
Watch out you'll have the armchair commandos after you :rofl:

:supergrin:you need to read more of my posts. I welcome it with open arms.

HAIL CAESAR
12-19-2011, 15:10
You know Caesar - liars make Jesus cry. :tongueout:

I smile ear to ear every time I look at or use that gun. I smile about how much I like it and about how much I got in it.:supergrin:

Mayhem like Me
12-20-2011, 11:20
No Lies hurt. :faint:My CMMG 10.3" SBR does have a JP BCG, Timney Drop in 3.5lb. trigger, KNS anti roll pins, and a few other mods. Does that still mean it is a POS?
Never had a problem or failure.
I do have a BCM for all those haters.

"Most of CMMG's rifles have far more "technical data package" features than S&W, Bushmaster, Rock River Arms, or Stag, etc.- but not as many as (the higher price range) Colt, BCM, or Daniel Defense.

CMMG probably is the best choice of AR maker in the middling price range."

From what I have seen I would give the nod to Spikes Tactical..before cmmg.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Scattergun1187
12-20-2011, 13:42
From what I have seen I would give the nod to Spikes Tactical..before cmmg.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

You can give the nod to any flavor of the month. The simple fact is when I compare my CMMG 10.3 to my LMT or BCM they are damn near identical in quality and appearance. I won't even comment on Spikes.
And no failures. I'm just sayin'. I bought mine several years ago. I guess when they where the flavor of the year. And it's not one of the bargain bin pos put together's.:wavey:

Cole125
12-20-2011, 20:54
You can give the nod to any flavor of the month. The simple fact is when I compare my CMMG 10.3 to my LMT or BCM they are damn near identical in quality and appearance. I won't even comment on Spikes.
And no failures. I'm just sayin'. I bought mine several years ago. I guess when they where the flavor of the year. And it's not one of the bargain bin pos put together's.:wavey:

Exactly. As I said before in this thread I have never had a issue with my CMMG M4 LE upper. In fact I don't notice any difference in quality, accuracy, and reliability between it and my buddies much more expensive rifles.

Some of the fellows on here are VERY wrapped around the axel about brand names...

M&P Shooter
12-20-2011, 21:16
CMMG = Busmaster, DPMS, RRA, Stag, Olympus, PSA, etc. (i.e. junk)

Go with Bravo Company, Colt, or Daniel Defense (for close to the same price!)
http://i852.photobucket.com/albums/ab89/Glock40guy/metal-jeanclaudevandamee.gif

Mayhem like Me
12-21-2011, 08:05
You can give the nod to any flavor of the month. The simple fact is when I compare my CMMG 10.3 to my LMT or BCM they are damn near identical in quality and appearance. I won't even comment on Spikes.
And no failures. I'm just sayin'. I bought mine several years ago. I guess when they where the flavor of the year. And it's not one of the bargain bin pos put together's.:wavey:

Good for you I have seen too may jacked up CMMG guns in the barrel chamber area to give them a nod.. customer service was to fit a one piece gas ring in the rifle that was blowing primers... Yup that was the answer to three rifles in the same order blowing primers..
Fit a Non mil spec one piece gas ring..

I'm glad they work for you, They are second rate parts (from who knows where) assembled in America .

CMMG taught us a valuable lesson the 82 dollars we saved per unit Vs the Colts was not worth it...

shadow65
12-21-2011, 09:32
Good for you I have seen too may jacked up CMMG guns in the barrel chamber area to give them a nod.. customer service was to fit a one piece gas ring in the rifle that was blowing primers... Yup that was the answer to three rifles in the same order blowing primers..
Fit a Non mil spec one piece gas ring..

I'm glad they work for you, They are second rate parts (from who knows where) assembled in America .

CMMG taught us a valuable lesson the 82 dollars we saved per unit Vs the Colts was not worth it...

There was a P.D. that bought rifles and thought the chambers were out of spec. As it turned out, the lot of Fed ammo they were using, and sent to CMMG with the rifles, was over pressured which was causing the blown primers.
CMMG rifles are test fired before leaving the factory with Lake City M855.

I would choose a Colt over just about anything for a duty weapon.
Dave