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20SFLV
12-09-2011, 19:51
I took my new 20SF to the range today for the first time today. Some people warned me about the recoil, but I had no problem with it. I went through about 250 rounds today, and enjoyed. After shooting the 20SF, I shot my 75B and there was a big difference in recoil. Still, the recoil was quite manageable. I haven't gotten my KKM barrel yet so I was shooting American Eagle 180 grain rounds which was great. Small groups, and no real problems with the gun. Once I get the KKM barrel, it will be time to try some hotter rounds.

Only problem I had was that the gun ejected the brass too far away so I couldn't collect most of the brass. Not happy about that because at some point I may get into reloading. Some of the brass fell forward of the red line so no way I was going to get that.

Also have a Colt Delta Elite coming in so I will probably take that gun out next month to the range.

_The_Shadow
12-09-2011, 20:08
Congrats! Yep, ejected brass goes the distance...ranges need to be more tollerant of shooter's brass!

arushus
12-09-2011, 21:32
A 22 or 24 lbrecoil spring will help with the brass ejection. Just wait till you bust off some real 10mm loads! That bad boy will rock your world! You will be smiling ear to ear, at least I was..american eagle isnt a whole lot better than .40sw...

21Carrier
12-10-2011, 00:21
You will be fine shooting hotter loads through your stock gun. Anything from Buffalo Bore, Double Tap, or Underwood will be safe in your stock G20SF.

rcd567
12-10-2011, 08:42
You will be fine shooting hotter loads through your stock gun. Anything from Buffalo Bore, Double Tap, or Underwood will be safe in your stock G20SF.

Be sure to check prices before ordering any of the three above. You'll find Underwood is half the price but good stuff.

20SFLV
12-10-2011, 10:47
A 22 or 24 lbrecoil spring will help with the brass ejection. Just wait till you bust off some real 10mm loads! That bad boy will rock your world! You will be smiling ear to ear, at least I was..american eagle isnt a whole lot better than .40sw...

I was told that the store ammo is similar to the .40S&W. I have some stronger ammo, but don't want to shoot it until I get my KKM barrel.

I was thinking of getting a 20 or 22lb spring, but decided to stick with the stock spring for now. I suspect the American Eagle ammo will be cheaper than the hotter stuff so that is probably the ammo I will shoot mostly at the range.

20SFLV
12-10-2011, 10:48
Be sure to check prices before ordering any of the three above. You'll find Underwood is half the price but good stuff.

I bought Buffalo Bore before I heard of Underwood. I plan on placing an order through them soon.

Taterhead
12-10-2011, 11:54
I was told that the store ammo is similar to the .40S&W. I have some stronger ammo, but don't want to shoot it until I get my KKM barrel.

I was thinking of getting a 20 or 22lb spring, but decided to stick with the stock spring for now. I suspect the American Eagle ammo will be cheaper than the hotter stuff so that is probably the ammo I will shoot mostly at the range.

Welcome, 20SFLV, to a fine platform and cartridge. I am pretty sure that you will grow to love them.

A couple of unsolicited thoughts:

If you are going to shoot factory range stuff, I like Remington UMC 180s better than the red box ammo. It is fairly close in price. A lot of guys like Georgia Arms purchased in bulk "canned heat."

I have a 22# spring. I use the factory weight more and more lately because it is softer shooting and gives quicker followup shots for me. Think heavily sprung pickup. Lots of jarring over bumps when not hauling a heavy load. My only failures, thus far, have been with the 22# spring. The stock setup has digested anything I can feed it. That includes heavy handloads and boutique factory ammo like Buffalo Bore. A reason to go with a heavier spring is to reduce frame battering, but I don't think that is an issue in a polymer-framed Glock. Others notice that brass is not flung as far with a heavier spring. I haven't noticed much, if any, in that regard. Even with a 22# Wolff spring, my G20 launches brass into the next county. I mostly shoot at my outdoor club/range, so collecting brass is not a problem - if I can find it.

No need to wait for a KKM barrel to shoot the hotter factory stuff. Not trying to talk you out of an aftermarket barrel, but to alleviate the concerns of shooting heftier loads through your stock setup. My suggestion would be to shoot the Buffalo Bore loads. If your Glock is like my Glock 20, you will find zero issues.

When I first bought my G20 I was certain that I would get an AM barrel. Many thousands of rounds later, I have not found the need. At least in my setup, the horrors of "unsupported chambers" have not come to fruition. Some guys get Glock smiles, which are concerning, with hotter stuff. Mine has almost completely been void of Glock smiles or other worrisome brass issues. The cost of an AM barrel will get you a long way toward a reloading setup. Money better spent, in my opinion, than going with an AM barrel.

Good idea about keeping your brass. The 10mm benefits from hand loading. Your costs can be WAY reduced, plus you can really exploit the versatility of this fine cartridge in a way that only expensive boutique factory ammo can. Plus, I can reload range ammo for less than $20/100. Keep in mind that if you reload for a KKM barrel, any brass shot through your stock barrel will likely need a push-through rezising die to get it to feed properly. Your stock barrel will not care what you feed it - except maybe cast lead (mixed opinions about this).

arushus
12-10-2011, 13:26
Everything tater said is right on! In my personal opinion, 95% of the time, if a load is too hot for your stock barrel, it doesmt belong in an aftermarket barrel either....so basically what Im saying is, you can shoot any factory ammo out of a stock barrel with no problems, if it is too hot for the stock, it is too hot for an AM barrel. Where there is an exception to what I said is when it comes to rolling your own. Some people shoot loads that just expand to much and get glocksmiles when using the factory barrel, so there is good reason to get an AM barrel. Im just saying you should not fear to shoot any factory loading through the stock barrel.

21Carrier
12-10-2011, 16:38
You will be absolutely fine shooting Buffalo Bore ammo in your stock G20. As with Taterhead, I have THOUSANDS of rounds through my stock G29. I have even gotten Buffalo Bore numbers out of my short G29 barrel, safely. If you go to BB's website, they are very clear that their ammo is fine for use in a stock Glock 20.

20SFLV
12-10-2011, 19:49
Thank you everyone for your advice.

post-apocalyptic
12-11-2011, 10:47
...Once I get the KKM barrel, it will be time to try some hotter rounds...

http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/5601/housenotthisagain11.jpg

I'm so damned sick of the pervasive, ridiculous rumor that you must use aftermarket barrels to fire full-power 10mm.

Your factory Glock barrel will handle any commercial ammo out there, (yes, even Buffalo Bore and Underwood), just fine.

Congrats on the new 20 btw. They're fine pistols.

arushus
12-11-2011, 14:56
post-ap is correct....the stock glock barrel can handle anything an aftermarket barrel can...only concern is glocksmiles on your brass, but that only matters if you plan to reload them.

bac1023
12-11-2011, 15:17
Congrats on the G20. :)

texas 48
12-15-2011, 14:45
I load my own so I use a KKM in my 29sf and an LWD in my 20sf . These barrels signicantly reduce bulge in the cases. I used to put my Glock OEM barrels back in after my range sessions but now have fired a couple of thousand rounds thru both aftermarkets with no FTF or any other problems. That being said I should return to putting the OEM barrels in after the range sessions because in a SHTF situations the looser tolerances of the Glock barrels could be more reliable.

glock20c10mm
12-15-2011, 16:00
I'm so damned sick of the pervasive, ridiculous rumor that you must use aftermarket barrels to fire full-power 10mm.
And if reliability doesn't suffer there's no reason not to.

While true, one shouldn't NEED an aftermarket barrel. Then again it's not a perfect world and not every Glock barrel is created equal. Nor every lot of ammo for that matter. And Glock does allow for quite the six o'clock gappage in the best conditions compared to most other platforms available for any ammo. Especially for a cartridge that on it's own handles 37,500 PSI AVERAGE pressure according to SAAMI with a properly designed barrel, and CLEARLY a stock Glock barrel doesn't meet that criteria.

Taterhead
12-15-2011, 17:53
And if reliability doesn't suffer there's no reason not to

Except that aftermarket barrels are an expensive solution to a problem I do not have.

So to throw money at a solution that, at best, will yield equivalent reliability to the outstanding service record of the Glock chamber. In my opinion, one would be safer to slightly derate one's ammo than to think that the holy grail of kaboom protection is an aftermarket barrel. If one is that close to the ragged edge of safety, I don't think it is a necessary place to be - especially for carry ammo. Before anyone jumps in with, "why not just get a 40," I do operate at 10mm velocities, thank you very much. I am talking about operating in that elusively narrow band between supposedly too hot for a Glock barrel and but not too hot for a "fully supported"chamber chamber. I do not draw a distinction. We see posts with obviously overcharged ammo. Yet folks always jump in and claim an aftermarket barrel is the solution to the problem.

I am a business guy, and I have sat in meetings mulling over liability issues with legal representation. I find it hard to believe that Glock would launch a firearm to the public that knowingly did not conform to SAAMI specifications. That would be an egregious act of willful negligence.

Not trying to talk you out of running with what works for you. However we see new guys on here all of the time that have just dropped cash on a new firearm. Yet they can't afford components or ammunition because people start telling them that they must to out and start buying all types of replacement parts for their Glocks.

Anyhow, not trying to be argumentative. There are many opinions about this subject..

Stay safe.

arushus
12-15-2011, 18:12
I agree tater.

Having said that, I did buy an aftermarket barrel, for the simple fact that they do keep the brass from bulging quite so bad, and there are no smiles on the brass. Im gonna be reloading soon, and the more life I can get out of my brass, the better.

Taterhead
12-15-2011, 18:43
I agree tater.

Having said that, I did buy an aftermarket barrel, for the simple fact that they do keep the brass from bulging quite so bad, and there are no smiles on the brass. Im gonna be reloading soon, and the more life I can get out of my brass, the better.

Curious: I get zero smiles on anything I have run through my gen 3 G20 barrel. There has been one exception with a certain handload. Curious about what you are seeing smiles with in your stock setup. G20? G29?

arushus
12-15-2011, 18:56
G20sf, there are light smiles on everything I shoot that is full power. It is just an imprint where the case expands against feeding ramp. It isnt anything that would keep it from being reloaded, IMO.

bmoore
12-15-2011, 19:43
Shot my 20SF today actually. 11.0 grains of bluedot........they pop. The standard G20 scenario played out. Guy comes down and looks, comes down again and looks, 3rd time is the charm.................."hey whats your Glock chambered in?" 10mm rocks. The factory 10mm loads suck horribly.

_The_Shadow
12-15-2011, 20:47
Shot my 20SF today actually. 11.0 grains of bluedot........they pop. The standard G20 scenario played out. Guy comes down and looks, comes down again and looks, 3rd time is the charm.................."hey whats your Glock chambered in?" 10mm rocks. The factory 10mm loads suck horribly.

Please explain more...What Bullet and weight, primers and seating depth with this loading? :dunno:

glock20c10mm
12-16-2011, 01:55
Except that aftermarket barrels are an expensive solution to a problem I do not have.
And for you and anyone else who agrees with your line of thinking, I wouldn't think anyone would take issue regardless what their line of thinking is. Certainly I don't.

In my opinion, one would be safer to slightly derate one's ammo than to think that the holy grail of kaboom protection is an aftermarket barrel.
For some of us like me and my thoughts on the matter it's not just about kaboom protection. It's about being able to safely operate at an average of 37,500 psi. Also, not all aftermarket barrels have equally more chamber support over the stock Glock barrel. KKM still lacks the support I'ld be comfortable with, while LWD and Storm Lake seem to be the best choices.

If one is that close to the ragged edge of safety, I don't think it is a necessary place to be - especially for carry ammo.
What are you calling the ragged edge of safety? And what do you mean by; "...especially for carry ammo"?

Before anyone jumps in with, "why not just get a 40," I do operate at 10mm velocities, thank you very much.
I'm sure you are operating at velocities greater than 40. At the same time the 10mm has more to offer in a properly supported barrel than those pressure levels and velocities you're shooting at, while still within SAAMI spec. Is it so bad for someone with my line of thinking to want to shoot the 10mm at a level SAAMI deems safe assuming a barrel is used with enough case support?

I am talking about operating in that elusively narrow band between supposedly too hot for a Glock barrel and but not too hot for a "fully supported"chamber chamber. I do not draw a distinction.
I and others do draw a distinction. Are you saying I'm wrong to draw the distinction?

We see posts with obviously overcharged ammo. Yet folks always jump in and claim an aftermarket barrel is the solution to the problem.
Not sure who would specifically fit the criteria you refer to here. I know of at least three GT members who clearly and freely admit to pushing the envelope and I also know that those three take some pretty decent precautions when doing so. By the same token I'm sure there are those that play with fire so to speak and may someday very well get burned. That's their choice. Stupidity and ignorance will always exist to some extent. Can't save them all. In the end clearly some aftermarket barrels for Glock 10mm platforms do allow for loading at least closer to if not at 37,500 average psi. How is there anything wrong with that?

I am a business guy, and I have sat in meetings mulling over liability issues with legal representation. I find it hard to believe that Glock would launch a firearm to the public that knowingly did not conform to SAAMI specifications. That would be an egregious act of willful negligence.
Well, I don't know why they did it, but they did. And you not being able to grasp what you'll never know won't change that. A stock 10mm Glock barrel will not handle many if any loads loaded up to an average of 37,500psi, period. It's a fact. Do you not agree?

Not trying to talk you out of running with what works for you.
:shocked: Oh. Do you think it might be better to just level with honest reasoning to anyone you believe to be a tad lost, from both sides of the coin as opposed to simply telling them what they do and don't need? I would think so. Because some of what you posted above simply isn't true and I'm pretty sure you know better. Just leaves me with the idea you would just as soon make other's decisions for them. That's never right. And yeah, there are exceptions to every rule, but in no way do I see this being an exception.

However we see new guys on here all of the time that have just dropped cash on a new firearm. Yet they can't afford components or ammunition because people start telling them that they must to out and start buying all types of replacement parts for their Glocks.
WHAT?!? C'mon. Seriously? Do you really believe the average "Joe" is that stupid? I think you need to give most folks a bit more credit than that. I'm not saying nobody ever gets wrongly fooled into something based on what is posted in an open forum on the www. But they certainly aren't to the extent you make it sound!

Anyhow, not trying to be argumentative.
Nor I. Doesn't mean we can't discuss opposite sides of a coin like gentlemen.

There are many opinions about this subject..
Yes there are. Yet some posts are at best only loosely coming across as opinion when in fact they are only opinion along with some statements that are misleading, purposefully or not.

Lastly, see where post-apocalyptic posted; "Your factory Glock barrel will handle any commercial ammo out there, (yes, even Buffalo Bore and Underwood), just fine."? Well yeah, it's generally true, but so what? You do realize that no commercial 10mm load operates at an average of 37,500psi that at the very least isn't labeled as being only intended for fully supported barrels, right? Why do you think that is? Or do you disagree?

Stay safe.
:cheers:

rcd567
12-16-2011, 09:00
My glock barrel will shoot anything reliably. DT and Underwood included. However, I get some smilies shooting those and every round is bulged.:wow:

I also reload so I got a Lone Wolf barrel so my brass is in better shape after shooting.

Taterhead
12-16-2011, 09:01
And for you and anyone else who agrees with your line of thinking, I wouldn't think anyone would take issue regardless what their line of thinking is. Certainly I don't.


For some of us like me and my thoughts on the matter it's not just about kaboom protection. It's about being able to safely operate at an average of 37,500 psi. Also, not all aftermarket barrels have equally more chamber support over the stock Glock barrel. KKM still lacks the support I'ld be comfortable with, while LWD and Storm Lake seem to be the best choices.


What are you calling the ragged edge of safety? And what do you mean by; "...especially for carry ammo"?


I'm sure you are operating at velocities greater than 40. At the same time the 10mm has more to offer in a properly supported barrel than those pressure levels and velocities you're shooting at, while still within SAAMI spec. Is it so bad for someone with my line of thinking to want to shoot the 10mm at a level SAAMI deems safe assuming a barrel is used with enough case support?


I and others do draw a distinction. Are you saying I'm wrong to draw the distinction?


Not sure who would specifically fit the criteria you refer to here. I know of at least three GT members who clearly and freely admit to pushing the envelope and I also know that those three take some pretty decent precautions when doing so. By the same token I'm sure there are those that play with fire so to speak and may someday very well get burned. That's their choice. Stupidity and ignorance will always exist to some extent. Can't save them all. In the end clearly some aftermarket barrels for Glock 10mm platforms do allow for loading at least closer to if not at 37,500 average psi. How is there anything wrong with that?


Well, I don't know why they did it, but they did. And you not being able to grasp what you'll never know won't change that. A stock 10mm Glock barrel will not handle many if any loads loaded up to an average of 37,500psi, period. It's a fact. Do you not agree?


:shocked: Oh. Do you think it might be better to just level with honest reasoning to anyone you believe to be a tad lost, from both sides of the coin as opposed to simply telling them what they do and don't need? I would think so. Because some of what you posted above simply isn't true and I'm pretty sure you know better. Just leaves me with the idea you would just as soon make other's decisions for them. That's never right. And yeah, there are exceptions to every rule, but in no way do I see this being an exception.


WHAT?!? C'mon. Seriously? Do you really believe the average "Joe" is that stupid? I think you need to give most folks a bit more credit than that. I'm not saying nobody ever gets wrongly fooled into something based on what is posted in an open forum on the www. But they certainly aren't to the extent you make it sound!


Nor I. Doesn't mean we can't discuss opposite sides of a coin like gentlemen.


Yes there are. Yet some posts are at best only loosely coming across as opinion when in fact they are only opinion along with some statements that are misleading, purposefully or not.

Lastly, see where post-apocalyptic posted; "Your factory Glock barrel will handle any commercial ammo out there, (yes, even Buffalo Bore and Underwood), just fine."? Well yeah, it's generally true, but so what? You do realize that no commercial 10mm load operates at an average of 37,500psi that at the very least isn't labeled as being only intended for fully supported barrels, right? Why do you think that is? Or do you disagree?


:cheers:

Your discussion is very thoughtful, and not much to nitpick here.

The topic of 37,500 psi:

You are right that commercial manufacturers don't quite get there - we assume. Swampfox was about there on one load. "Ragged edge?" If it is so tight that increasing barrel length slightly or choosing an aftermarket barrel that is not exactly right (KKM) is the narrow band between safe and not safe - that is right up to the edge of safety in my opinion. Very very little margin for error in any setup. Forget to put the heavy spring in? Barrel has a little bit of residue? Not my carry load, thank you. I want to worry about my ability to react properly in an attack - not whether the load I am running is going to blow up my gun because conditions aren't exactly right.

Other than that, we really have no clue what psi in any given load unless we have tested it in our setups. Not feasible in an autoloader.

So in the quest to seek 37,499 maximum average pressure you might not quite get there in commercial ammo. Probably close with Buffalo Bore, but we don't know.

We can also be assured that in laboratory tests, component manufacturer (book) load data is within SAAMI specs - at least through pressure barrels. How that translates to pressures in our individual setups is unknown.

But this point is clear: best handloading practices say do not exceed book data since we do not have the ability to measure pressures. This doesn't eliminate high performances loads. We also do not have the ability to monitor how a given load behaves along the pressure curve. But we know that to get to 37,500 psi, exceeding book data is required. This is not, in my opinion, a good long term practice. We have no way to know when we have reached or surpassed 37,500 MAP. Or if the average is 37,500 where the occasional high charge might be 44k averaged with other pressures to equal 37.5k.

So for the universe of loads, through boutique manufacturer or max book hand loads, the stock G20 barrel is fine. Except for the one Swampfox loads, I know of no 10mm ammo manufacturers that call for a barrel swap. I do not find a sense of security in the notion of protecting myself by swapping for a barrel with better chamber support and then proceeding to start marching past book load data.

So I think you and I are sort of coming at this from a different premise. Different premise, different conclusion.

_The_Shadow
12-16-2011, 09:04
I hear or see where people say things like;

I can feel the difference...well the gun can too!
They pop...when will the gun pop!
People were wondering if I was shooting a Howtizer...yea but you gun isn't one!

Yes!, it is possible to send a few over powered rounds down range...however hammering the barrel and all other parts repeatedly will take its toll on them over time! Heck even full powered ammo that fits the SAAMI criterior can hammer things over the heavy usage.

Handloading is not just throwing rounds together, it is a passion and labor of love. I am one who pushes the 10mm cartridge to its performance, but I am very anal (as are most of the people who push) about my handloading proceedures and details, hand weighing, dual scale verification, careful inspection upon cartridge firing, and also back at the bench. The velocity data is just the fruits of the labor and the selection of componnets used to understand where things stand.

Now, first and formost, having ammunition which runs like a sewing machine, 100% reliably, without any stopages is the Ultimate Goal to achieve!

Any Cal.
12-16-2011, 12:22
Since everyone is tossing out opinions...

I am happy with the newer G20 barrel. I don't have access to Double Tap, but it had no issues with some handloads that were 230g WFN @ 1100+ fps. No, that wasn't a typo, and yes, they did have an issue. Brass looked great though. I have slight bulges on the brass, but no Glocksmiles.

Since the people with the money and the equipment say that the gun is safe for the caliber (Glock), I'll trust that over the misgivings of some guy on the internet. No one is building guns that need the barrels replaced for safety. Realistically, there is probably a bigger chance for problems in the .40s, due to the use of faster powders, reduced case volume, and shorter web.

If reloading is the prime concern, then aftermarket barrels may be given more consideration, but would still wait to see if the factory barrel needs to be replaced before doing so. So far I would be hesitant to replace my factory barrel, and would seriously consider a Glock 6" if I was going to go for something longer. <--Short term report, my brass has a few firings on it, with some having 4-5.

glock20c10mm
12-16-2011, 14:21
Your discussion is very thoughtful, and not much to nitpick here.
Yours too.
The topic of 37,500 psi:

You are right that commercial manufacturers don't quite get there - we assume.
This is the only part of your post I question. I don't see it as an assumption. We know from both Mike Willard and Mike McNett (assuming either had a clue what they were talking about, I believe they did) that the Winchester Brand 10mm 175gr Silvertip loading hoovers somewhere between 33,000-34,000 PSI. We also know that plenty of other 10mm loads aren't running to the WIN 175gr ST level (Blazer 200gr TMJ, BVAC,...). Georgia Arms could be close. I would say based on a WildAzzedGuess that Double Tap has dropped back over time to more/less exactly WIN 175gr ST pressure levels. Mike Willard specifically stated that none of his standard Swamp Fox 10mm loads surpassed 36,000psi.
So I think you and I are sort of coming at this from a different premise. Different premise, different conclusion.
:agree: I don't find fault in either of the ways we settle on the matter for ourselves.

glock20c10mm
12-16-2011, 14:32
I don't have access to Double Tap, but it had no issues with some handloads that were 230g WFN @ 1100+ fps. No, that wasn't a typo, and yes, they did have an issue. Brass looked great though. I have slight bulges on the brass, but no Glocksmiles.
There WERE or WERE NOT issues? Is so, what issues?

For clarification were you saying above that in your opinion brass looks great as long as it has slight bulges and no smiles?

How do you know the 230gr WFN handloads you were shooting hit +1100fps?

Simply FYI, at least one source on YouTube shows the actual DT 230gr WFNGC load to be averaging 999fps over a chronograph even though the box-flap claims 1120fps.

Any Cal.
12-16-2011, 15:27
-Edit- see next post.

Any Cal.
12-16-2011, 15:38
Since everyone is tossing out opinions...

I am happy with the newer G20 barrel. I don't have access to Double Tap, but it had no issues with some handloads that were 230g WFN @ 1100+ fps. No, that wasn't a typo, and yes, they did have an issue. Brass looked great though. I have slight bulges on the brass, but no Glocksmiles.

Since the people with the money and the equipment say that the gun is safe for the caliber (Glock), I'll trust that over the misgivings of some guy on the internet. No one is building guns that need the barrels replaced for safety. Realistically, there is probably a bigger chance for problems in the .40s, due to the use of faster powders, reduced case volume, and shorter web.

If reloading is the prime concern, then aftermarket barrels may be given more consideration, but would still wait to see if the factory barrel needs to be replaced before doing so. So far I would be hesitant to replace my factory barrel, and would seriously consider a Glock 6" if I was going to go for something longer. <--Short term report, my brass has a few firings on it, with some having 4-5.

Part in bold--- I don't know where that came from or what it meant. I was trying to say that I haven't had issues with the stock Glock barrel, even when shooting handloads that DID have issues.

When I say no issues with the barrel, I mean that a heavy load showed no major difference in pressure signs than a light factory Remington UMC load.

The story was that I was working up a load and watching the pressure signs of my brass; Load two, fire one over chrono, check brass, fire second over chrono, check brass. The load was looking good and moving up 30fps with or so with each change. Suddenly it bumped up 100fps or so, to a touch over 1100fps for two shots. I looked over my brass, and quit loading to discuss the results with a couple other knowledgeable handloaders. It did tell me though, that the stock barrel was quite capable of heavier loads, as the brass looked great. Notice though that the velocity was up, and pressure was high enough to get it there, but I wasn't using a fast powder. I am not saying that the stock barrel or any other would hold up to overpressure loads on a fast powder.

glock20c10mm
12-16-2011, 15:46
Part in bold--- I don't know where that came from or what it meant. I was trying to say that I haven't had issues with the stock Glock barrel, even when shooting handloads that DID have issues.

When I say no issues with the barrel, I mean that a heavy load showed no major difference in pressure signs than a light factory Remington UMC load.

The story was that I was working up a load and watching the pressure signs of my brass; Load two, fire one over chrono, check brass, fire second over chrono, check brass. The load was looking good and moving up 30fps with or so with each change. Suddenly it bumped up 100fps or so, to a touch over 1100fps for two shots. I looked over my brass, and quit loading to discuss the results with a couple other knowledgeable handloaders. It did tell me though, that the stock barrel was quite capable of heavier loads, as the brass looked great. Notice though that the velocity was up, and pressure was high enough to get it there, but I wasn't using a fast powder. I am not saying that the stock barrel or any other would hold up to overpressure loads on a fast powder.
Thank You for the clarification.

Taterhead
12-16-2011, 17:29
This is the only part of your post I question. I don't see it as an assumption. We know from both Mike Willard and Mike McNett (assuming either had a clue what they were ta.lking about, I believe they did) that the Winchester Brand 10mm 175gr Silvertip loading hoovers somewhere between 33,000-34,000 PSI.


McNett and Willard do know what they are talking about and I have paid close attention to their remarks.

The Silvertip 175 grainer runds only 1150 in my G20. Contrast that with a Buffalo Bore 180 @ 1335. Unless BB has some super duper whiz-bang powder, I would take a stab at guessing that their pressures are well north of 34K psi. That is a guess, since I have no clue what is happening in my barrel.

However, pressure testing setups may yield the different pressures than actual pressures in real world firearms and real world conditions due to all of the variables - hence my "assumption" about factory ammo running at less than SAAMI MAP. It is conceivable that certain conditions would caused increased pressures in a my G20 vis-a-vis pressure testing equipment... or they could cause lower pressures. :dunno:

Enjoy your weekend.

glock20c10mm
12-16-2011, 18:03
McNett and Willard do know what they are talking about and I have paid close attention to their remarks.

The Silvertip 175 grainer runds only 1150 in my G20. Contrast that with a Buffalo Bore 180 @ 1335. Unless BB has some super duper whiz-bang powder, I would take a stab at guessing that their pressures are well north of 34K psi. That is a guess, since I have no clue what is happening in my barrel.
Agreed. I was going to mention Buffalo Bore in my post but forgot. I figure they are somewhere in the neighborhood of Swamp Fox pressure levels. Definitely surpassing DT ammo. Maybe someday XmmAUTO will be able to give us more defined answers.
However, pressure testing setups may yield the different pressures than actual pressures in real world firearms and real world conditions due to all of the variables - hence my "assumption" about factory ammo running at less than SAAMI MAP. It is conceivable that certain conditions would caused increased pressures in a my G20 vis-a-vis pressure testing equipment... or they could cause lower pressures. :dunno:
Understood. I guess I generally feel like it's a non-issue, what pressures actually occur in our actual pistols. Addmitedly that could be poor judgment by me. But I figure professional pressure testing equipment and practices pretty much account for these errors (not to mention the gun manufacturers would have to have some form of collateral understanding overall), and even with some variance in pressure testing methods I believe the implementation of an average maximum pressure as set by SAAMI would allow for some amount of error here.

At the same time please understand I'm not looking for excuses to roll my own at levels that add up to little else than a handgun in more pieces than originally intended!:supergrin: Just saying.
Enjoy your weekend.
You too sir!:cheers: