An incident in Florida brings up a point [Archive] - Glock Talk

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liberty addict
12-10-2011, 12:42
This happened about a year ago in Florida:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/01/12/fla-jogger-wont-charged-shooting-teen/

The article doesn't speak to the issue of any preponderance of force (like if the teen that attacked the jogger was large and muscular); all it talks about is Florida's Stand Your Ground law.

I bring it up here because I have seen many refer to the idea that if you shoot an unarmed person, YOU will be in trouble. Apparently in Florida, not necessarily.

I know the anti-gunners have been wailing and screaming about Florida's law on this for years, I was wondering what others think about this incident.

pizza_pablo
12-10-2011, 13:43
It was discussed, recently, in this thread
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1386244

liberty addict
12-10-2011, 15:01
It was discussed, recently, in this thread
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1386244

I saw no place in that link that discussed this particular incident; although it did address various incidents and Florida law. But mostly that link is talking about road rage, a whole different thing from being attacked while jogging.

Gray_Rider
12-10-2011, 17:14
Hummmm...I don't have all the particulars here, but a guy is out jogging well after dark. Not a wise choice in my books, but it's his choice. He is attacked and punched in the face by someone who wasn't there taking in the evening breeze.

Let me think about this....seems someone got not only what they deserved, but they got what they proabably intended to give said innocent jogger. Who, by the way children, was minding his business and harming no one.

Too bad. So sad. Case closed.

Glad this didn't happen in any of the People's Republic states or cities. The case of a certain Mr. Fish comes to mind... The jogger would be behind bars. And, about now, would be going to court for murder or at least manslaughter, and for having the unmidigated temerity to carry a firearm and for harming a poor defensless criminal who attacked him.

There's a reason I live in Fla. the so called "gunshine state".

Gray_Rider
Deo Vindice!

Unreconstructed.
For a reason.

pizza_pablo
12-10-2011, 17:15
I saw no place in that link that discussed this particular incident; although it did address various incidents and Florida law. But mostly that link is talking about road rage, a whole different thing from being attacked while jogging.

You got me there.
I was referring to the many comments regarding shooting someone that was unarmed, but posing a threat of or actually committing physical harm.
I did this in response to the OP's second and third paragraphs.

PawDog
12-10-2011, 17:48
This happened about a year ago in Florida:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/01/12/fla-jogger-wont-charged-shooting-teen/

The article doesn't speak to the issue of any preponderance of force (like if the teen that attacked the jogger was large and muscular); all it talks about is Florida's Stand Your Ground law.

I bring it up here because I have seen many refer to the idea that if you shoot an unarmed person, YOU will be in trouble. Apparently in Florida, not necessarily.

I know the anti-gunners have been wailing and screaming about Florida's law on this for years, I was wondering what others think about this incident.

The shooter in this specific incident is/was a GT member, but I don't recall his user name. He addressed this incident thoroughly when it occurred, and after the case was adjudicated.

xmanhockey7
12-10-2011, 17:52
The way I see it someone came out and attacked him. It wasn't him and another guy in an argument that got into a fist fight, he was attacked. If I were him I'd be in fear for my life or serious bodily harm because I don't know what the person who is attacking me is planning on doing. As far as I know this crazy SOB has a gun or knife of his own. I'd use mine before he got to use his.

Cavalry Doc
12-10-2011, 18:09
Some of us are getting old. I'm too old, and have a lot of unapparent miles on the odometer from past injuries to think about taking a beat down. I have neck issues, that if I were to take a heavy blow to the head, could lead to long term serious disability.

My plan is to avoid conflict, if that fails, keep it verbal only. If that fails, retreat. If that fails, then I'll try to halt the altercation with the least amount of force necessary.

Odds are, it won't get that far. I'm pretty good at de-escalation.

Mr. Blandings
12-11-2011, 02:24
The shooter in this specific incident is/was a GT member, but I don't recall his user name. He addressed this incident thoroughly when it occurred, and after the case was adjudicated.His Glocktalk handle is "Z28ricer".

Extensive discussion here: http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1304465&page=2 (Z28ricer begins to chime in on page 2).

NEOH212
12-11-2011, 03:38
If the jogger was attacked and didn't start the fight, more power to him.

The laws in all states need to be this way. Even if it doesn't make criminals think twice before they do stupid things, they certainly won't have to worry about thinking about anything ever again.

It sounds like wonderpunk got what he deserved.

As someone else on this forum always says, "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes."

If wonderpunk didn't want to get shot, he shouldn't have started a fight. It's that simple.

My ending comment on the matter... ... ...


Oh well.

liberty addict
12-11-2011, 16:08
His Glocktalk handle is "Z28ricer".

Extensive discussion here: http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1304465&page=2 (Z28ricer begins to chime in on page 2).

Thanks for the link Mr. Blandings, I read all of that and it was quite good.
Also the article about it that I posted never even mentioned a 2nd attacker (talk about yellow journalism), so in my view Z28ricer did just great!

Carrys
12-11-2011, 17:03
Some of us are getting old. I'm too old, and have a lot of unapparent miles on the odometer from past injuries to think about taking a beat down. I have neck issues, that if I were to take a heavy blow to the head, could lead to long term serious disability.

My plan is to avoid conflict, if that fails, keep it verbal only. If that fails, retreat. If that fails, then I'll try to halt the altercation with the least amount of force necessary.

Odds are, it won't get that far. I'm pretty good at de-escalation.


That sir is a darn good point that isn't made here very often.

Some of us are getting older, although I'm not all that old...I am however due to my military wounds and other illnesses, MS being the biggest, unable to engage in any sort of "fight" like I used to. I used to be rather spry and able to take care of myself in hand to hand combat. No longer, just the way it is now a days.

If someone were to simply grab me, they could do a lot of damage, even death if the right hit or knock down is taken by me. So I assume every "hands on" type of situation is life threatening to/for me. And I will react accordingly, take the most appropriate measures to prevent it, and do what I must to stop it from happening at all.

It's not my concern if the person who attempts such an attack knows that or not. Either he should or he shouldn't be doing it at all. I make darn sure I give no one a reason to want to fight me these days. If a person decides to fight me, rob me, or simply "man handle" me........it can all cause my death it anything goes wrong. Even if it doesn't cause death, it could easily cause grave harm to me. My bones are much more brittle today than they were just 5 years ago.


Every self defense situation I'm forced into could very well be a life or death situation for me now. I will not hesitate to prevent that by any means I have at hand.........and I always, always make sure I have the means necessary at hand to live through whatever may happen.

I can live with being on trial if it comes to that......live being the operative word there.

SCmasterblaster
12-21-2011, 13:29
Only four of his eight shots hit his attacker at contact distance. This alone is a minor miracle. How could he miss so many times? At contact distance? He is lucky that none of his stray shots hit anything valuable or living.

Mr. Blandings
12-21-2011, 13:46
Only four of his eight shots hit his attacker at contact distance. This alone is a minor miracle. How could he miss so many times? At contact distance? He is lucky that none of his stray shots hit anything valuable or living.As I recall (no, I'm not going to go back and read the threads that I already linked above right now) Z28ricer (the victim who was attacked) had his bell rung pretty good by his attacker's initial "sucker punch" to the face.

The pistol involved was a Kimber Ultra-carry with nightsights and Laser Grips., but I don't recall if Z28ricer has ever stated if he saw his sights or his laser dot while firing.

Nonetheless, hit & dazed he drew and engaged at contact distance on a dynamically moving threat in the dark and landed 50% hits. I believe that's twice as good as the often quoted 25% hit ratio for law enforcement shootings, and it was unquestionably good enough to stop the attack. No innocents were wounded and there was no reported property damage cited in the available information.

John Rambo
12-21-2011, 13:51
He was also a member of a Tampa site I frequent, a lot of people there knew him. Actually knew him. He wasn't the most likable guy to some, but he absolutely wasn't guilty of anything.

John Rambo
12-21-2011, 13:51
As I recall (no, I'm not going to go back and read the threads that I already linked above right now) Z28ricer (the victim who was attacked) had his bell rung pretty good by his attacker's initial "sucker punch" to the face.

The pistol involved was a Kimber Ultra-carry with nightsights and Laser Grips., but I don't recall if Z28ricer has ever stated if he saw his sights or his laser dot while firing.

Nonetheless, hit & dazed he drew and engaged at contact distance on a dynamically moving threat in the dark and landed 50% hits. I believe that's twice as good as the often quoted 25% hit ratio for law enforcement shootings, and it was unquestionably good enough to stop the attack. No innocents were wounded and there was no reported property damage cited in the available information.

Not really. The attackers were a couple of underage kids.

Ahmid
12-21-2011, 14:06
Not really. The attackers were a couple of underage kids.

I have seen some of these under age kids around the neighborhood. They are big and strong enough to rip my arms out of the sockets and beat me half to death with them...

zbusdriver
12-21-2011, 14:20
Odds are, it won't get that far. I'm pretty good at de-escalation.Try not to over estimate your people-skills ---- EVERY ONE OF US can get sucker punched or blindsided. :upeyes:

JuneyBooney
12-21-2011, 14:23
Hummmm...I don't have all the particulars here, but a guy is out jogging well after dark. Not a wise choice in my books, but it's his choice. He is attacked and punched in the face by someone who wasn't there taking in the evening breeze.

Let me think about this....seems someone got not only what they deserved, but they got what they proabably intended to give said innocent jogger. Who, by the way children, was minding his business and harming no one.

Too bad. So sad. Case closed.

Glad this didn't happen in any of the People's Republic states or cities. The case of a certain Mr. Fish comes to mind... The jogger would be behind bars. And, about now, would be going to court for murder or at least manslaughter, and for having the unmidigated temerity to carry a firearm and for harming a poor defensless criminal who attacked him.

There's a reason I live in Fla. the so called "gunshine state".

Gray_Rider
Deo Vindice!

Unreconstructed.
For a reason.

I agree. :cool:

zbusdriver
12-21-2011, 14:26
He is lucky that none of his stray shots hit anything valuable or living.Who cares about valuable objects? He is lucky to be alive...what part of this do you not understand? :upeyes:

ZombieKing
12-21-2011, 14:42
Not really. The attackers were a couple of underage kids.

And your point?

An 18 year old is not underage.

And I've seen some 18 year old guys who are in awesome shape. In good enough shape to take on anyone. Especially if they've been working out.

Hell I've seen 15 and 16 year old teenagers who could whip any adults ass if they set their mind to it.

Underage means nothing unless they are truly kids.

John Rambo
12-21-2011, 18:33
I have seen some of these under age kids around the neighborhood. They are big and strong enough to rip my arms out of the sockets and beat me half to death with them...

These kids weren't big and strong. I really doubt the punch phased him much.

ZombieKing
12-21-2011, 19:57
These kids weren't big and strong. I really doubt the punch phased him much.

You knew these kids?

PAGunner
12-21-2011, 21:42
These kids weren't big and strong. I really doubt the punch phased him much.

How do you know? Someone doesn't have to be "big and strong" to pack a punch, when I was 14-16 and 140=170lbs and boxing I have no doubt I could have knocked almost any full grown man out with a sucker punch, and I wouldn't call my weight then "big or strong", but I sure knew how to throw a hard punch with speed!

Btw, I remember the guy who shot in self defense posting here on the carry section of GT, and he said he was very phased by the punch, he actually thought he was hit with a brick at first and it blurred his vision, part of the reason he shot the one suspect even after he started fleeing (buttocks shot), but it was a good shoot.

If I remember correctly the gun was a commander sized 1911 with 230gr. +P HSTs, and if you asked me it was damn good shooting under the circumstances.

PAGunner
12-21-2011, 21:44
Only four of his eight shots hit his attacker at contact distance. This alone is a minor miracle. How could he miss so many times? At contact distance? He is lucky that none of his stray shots hit anything valuable or living.

I pray you're never involved in a SD shooting, but if/when you are, I think you might understand how you can miss at such a close range, especially after being hit and dazed with blurred vision. The way I see it, it was damn good shooting!

PAGunner
12-21-2011, 21:46
Hummmm...I don't have all the particulars here, but a guy is out jogging well after dark. Not a wise choice in my books, but it's his choice. He is attacked and punched in the face by someone who wasn't there taking in the evening breeze.

The GTer in question who shot in self defense worked odd hours, I vaguely remember the story, he admitted it might not have been the wisest choice to go for a run late at night, but when you work odd hours and want to stay in shape, I guess you do what you have to. Oh and I too live in the "gunshine" state, I never want to leave this wonderful state, for more than just it's gun/self-defense laws!

mj9mm
12-21-2011, 22:15
Only four of his eight shots hit his attacker at contact distance. This alone is a minor miracle. How could he miss so many times? At contact distance? He is lucky that none of his stray shots hit anything valuable or living.

an important thing to remember in a life or death fight such as this is neither participant is standing still waithing to be struck, there is a lot of twisting and turning going on. unless your opponent is holding the muzzle you are going to have to work very hard to hit your target while avoiding a beatdown:cool:. also, at this point, unfortunately, you will probably not have a lot of awareness of the area just beyond your fight. i remember getting jumped by 4 or 5 older guys when i was 13, soon after the first one hit me i was disoriented and couldn't go in any direction without running into another one of the punks, it was nearly impossible to see beyond them because i was focussed on avoiding the next punch that always came from where i was not looking. i like to think i learned alot from that incident, such as avoiding 4 on 1 situations. in all truthfulness, probably mostly lucky though.:embarassed:

PAGunner
12-21-2011, 22:27
i remember getting jumped by 4 or 5 older guys when i was 13, soon after the first one hit me i was disoriented and couldn't go in any direction without running into another one of the punks, it was nearly impossible to see beyond them because i was focussed on avoiding the next punch that always came from where i was not looking. i like to think i learned alot from that incident, such as avoiding 4 on 1 situations. in all truthfulness, probably mostly lucky though.:embarassed:

Been there brotha, 4 or more on 1 with no weapons, not much MOST people can really do to hurt you if you cover up. I was 14 got jumped by 2 car loads of 17-18 year old punks (6-7 of them). The first kid who came out of the car is the one who had "beef" with me over something so stupid I can't even remember, I knew I was going to get jumped but gladly took my shirt off and stood my ground (back then I didn't want anyone thinking I was a punk), I was with 2 friends who ran (so much for those "friends"), I ended up throwing a superman punch (didn't have a name back then) at the punk who wanted a piece of me, caught him on the jaw but he was going backwards, still knocked him down, but the first punk to jump in broke his hand hitting my forehead, I had a small shiner there but he had fractured hand. That was the worst that happened to me. I got some blows, I got stomped and kicked (in the face) but I did my best to cover up.

Punks got off of me when they thought they'd beat me down enough, I was disoriented and punk 1 whom I'd knocked down got me in a headlock, but I grabbed his face and pulled him back, leveraged him, got his leg with my other arm, picked him up and slammed him on the concrete, then the pack jumped back in... Needless to say, I had gained a lot of respect for that, never really had a problem with anyone after that, people tend to not wanna fight someone who's going to fight back, even when the odds are stacked against you.

Anyway, none of these kids new how to fight, if I'd been jumped by 6-7 people who knew how to fight, I would have been in a world of hurt, people can be seriously hurt or dead after that kind of beat down. Now a days that's a disparity of force, and I would feel threatened with great bodily harm, so I wouldn't want to be in the shoes of any punks trying to jump me now, that many against one in my book puts the fear of great bodily harm or death in my mind.

John Rambo
12-22-2011, 06:40
You knew these kids?

No, but this was discussed AT LENGTH on a tampa site, where lots of people knew this guy and he was a member. I remember the big issue that came up was, "Why the hell was he jogging at night with so much money?" and the prevailing answer was, "Who cares?"

ZombieKing
12-22-2011, 08:39
No, but this was discussed AT LENGTH on a tampa site, where lots of people knew this guy and he was a member. I remember the big issue that came up was, "Why the hell was he jogging at night with so much money?" and the prevailing answer was, "Who cares?"

So you don't know the kids but you say they weren't big and strong and you doubt the punch phased the victim because of what you read on some site.

An 18 year old is not a small kid. And you don't need to have bulging muscles to throw a hard punch and "ring someones bell".

Cavalry Doc
12-22-2011, 08:57
Try not to over estimate your people-skills ---- EVERY ONE OF US can get sucker punched or blindsided. :upeyes:

Oh I don't, plan B is usually readily available.

Some interactions start well beyond conversation. That's why you need to at least try to be aware of your surroundings. Hopefully you notice the bad guy before he is an arms length away.

Bren
12-22-2011, 09:08
This happened about a year ago in Florida:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/01/12/fla-jogger-wont-charged-shooting-teen/

The article doesn't speak to the issue of any preponderance of force (like if the teen that attacked the jogger was large and muscular); all it talks about is Florida's Stand Your Ground law.


The shooter was a Glock Talk member, best I recall.

Ahmid
12-22-2011, 09:09
Oh I don't, plan B is usually readily available.

Some interactions start well beyond conversation. That's why you need to at least try to be aware of your surroundings. Hopefully you notice the bad guy before he is an arms length away.

You are so right.
I have been blind sided and sucker a punched several times.
You would think I would have learned. Let me tell you it can come from no-where.

Bren
12-22-2011, 09:11
No, but this was discussed AT LENGTH on a tampa site, where lots of people knew this guy and he was a member. I remember the big issue that came up was, "Why the hell was he jogging at night with so much money?" and the prevailing answer was, "Who cares?"

I would assume he was jogging with so much money because he was jogging with a gun and a CCW permit, which he kept in his wallet, like me, so he would always carry his wallet when carrying a gun, like me, and he always keeps his money in his wallet as well, like me.

Bren
12-22-2011, 09:19
Glad this didn't happen in any of the People's Republic states or cities. The case of a certain Mr. Fish comes to mind... The jogger would be behind bars. And, about now, would be going to court for murder or at least manslaughter, and for having the unmidigated temerity to carry a firearm and for harming a poor defensless criminal who attacked him.

I recall "The case of a certain Mr. Fish" being one where Mr. Fish started the confrontation, drew his gun before there was a confrontation, and shot a man who had not hit him - all differences between that case and this one.

Dexters
12-22-2011, 09:26
http://csgv3.blogspot.com/2011/02/how-do-you-shoot-someone-eight-times-in.html

“I'm going to bam him. I'm gonna knock him out,” Mustelier announced.

Dexters
12-22-2011, 09:27
http://csgv3.blogspot.com/2011/02/how-do-you-shoot-someone-eight-times-in.html

I'm going to bam him. I'm gonna knock him out, Mustelier announced.

Bren
12-22-2011, 09:33
http://csgv3.blogspot.com/2011/02/how-do-you-shoot-someone-eight-times-in.html

I'm going to bam him. I'm gonna knock him out, Mustelier announced.

Maybe they said "ban him" and "lock him out" - he was GT member. I suspect the "mugger" was actually a "Moderator." Maybe the mods will be more careful who they ban in the future.:rofl:

PAGunner
12-22-2011, 10:29
No, but this was discussed AT LENGTH on a tampa site, where lots of people knew this guy and he was a member. I remember the big issue that came up was, "Why the hell was he jogging at night with so much money?" and the prevailing answer was, "Who cares?"

How much money he was carrying is pointless to even bring it, it doesnt matter at all, it has about as much relevance as bringing up the color of his sneakers.

Bren
12-22-2011, 11:38
How much money he was carrying is pointless to even bring it, it doesnt matter at all, it has about as much relevance as bringing up the color of his sneakers.

Especially since the robbers didn't know how much money he had, so it didn't cause the robbery attempt AND his justification is the same if he's carrying $1 or $1,000.

John Rambo
12-22-2011, 16:29
I would assume he was jogging with so much money because he was jogging with a gun and a CCW permit, which he kept in his wallet, like me, so he would always carry his wallet when carrying a gun, like me, and he always keeps his money in his wallet as well, like me.

Tried to find you a link, but I can't find the thread because the site upgraded to a new vBulliten which completely fubar'd search. He had more money than you carry on a regular basis. I don't need to know how much you carry on a regular basis to know he had more on him. I mean, unless you walk around with $950 in your pocket. Regardless, its 'odd' but in no way relevant to the shooting.

As for the other guy about not knowing the kids. No, I didn't know them. They were two little hood rats. They, also, were discussed at great length. The little 16 year old underage hood rat who is still sucking air ratted out his buddy after the incident when questioned.

John Rambo
12-22-2011, 16:45
Heres a picture of the dead scumbag, for reference.

http://www2.tbo.com/mgmedia/image/0/354/39504/no-charges-for-jogger-in-town-n-country-fatal-shoo/

Bren
12-22-2011, 16:47
Tried to find you a link, but I can't find the thread because the site upgraded to a new vBulliten which completely fubar'd search. He had more money than you carry on a regular basis. I don't need to know how much you carry on a regular basis to know he had more on him. I mean, unless you walk around with $950 in your pocket.

When I was a youngster, working construction in Florida, with no bank accounts or cards, I often carried that much and more in my wallet.

As to the picture, so? dead scumbags look like anybody else. Looks like a scumbag to me.

John Rambo
12-22-2011, 16:49
When I was a youngster, working construction in Florida, with no bank accounts or cards, I often carried that much and more in my wallet.

As to the picture, so? dead scumbags look like anybody else. Looks like a scumbag to me.

Thats for the other guy who said 'You don't know him.' The guy wasn't terribly large nor formidible. And apparently, he punched like a little sissy girl, because all he managed to do was split Baker's lip.

Bren
12-22-2011, 17:12
Thats for the other guy who said 'You don't know him.' The guy wasn't terribly large nor formidible. And apparently, he punched like a little sissy girl, because all he managed to do was split Baker's lip.

That, again, gets a "so"? It's a shame he even let the POS hit him. The world is a little bit better place.

Glock!9
12-22-2011, 18:16
http://csgv3.blogspot.com/2011/02/how-do-you-shoot-someone-eight-times-in.html

I'm going to bam him. I'm gonna knock him out, Mustelier announced.

wow, does that site have an interesting take eon what happened!

Scared_of_zombies
12-22-2011, 18:23
What damage he ended up doing is irrelevant, z28racer said he was hit with an object and i have no reason to doubt that claim.

If i try to run you over with my car and kill you but only manage to run over a toe it doesnt matter. Its all about intent.

He intended to attack and rob him (as he told his partner). His attack was unprovoked and in this case a Kimber saved the day for the actual victim, z28racer.

What amount of money he had was irrelevant, why he decided to go jogging at that time is irrelevant, whether he chooses boxers or briefs is irrelevant. He was attacked unprovoked and he was able to save his life.

f350fiver
12-22-2011, 19:01
The fact that there will be no charges tells us that the law in this case worked. The cirumstances can be argued all day, but the result is the law peceeved this guy was justified.

John Rambo
12-22-2011, 19:04
What damage he ended up doing is irrelevant, z28racer said he was hit with an object and i have no reason to doubt that claim.

If i try to run you over with my car and kill you but only manage to run over a toe it doesnt matter. Its all about intent.

He intended to attack and rob him (as he told his partner). His attack was unprovoked and in this case a Kimber saved the day for the actual victim, z28racer.

What amount of money he had was irrelevant, why he decided to go jogging at that time is irrelevant, whether he chooses boxers or briefs is irrelevant. He was attacked unprovoked and he was able to save his life.

Thanks for repeating everything I already said.

Z28ricer
12-23-2011, 00:38
That doesnt look anything, at all like what you've said.

Only thing you've said is a bunch of your own agenda on what you think happened, and/or why.


Since you seem to be so inquisitive about the amount of cash in my pocket that night, I had finally been repaid for an engine/transmission that I loaned someone the money for, which was the large majority of the cash that was in my pocket.

ZombieKing
12-23-2011, 01:36
Thats for the other guy who said 'You don't know him.' The guy wasn't terribly large nor formidible. And apparently, he punched like a little sissy girl, because all he managed to do was split Baker's lip.

Yeah it's pretty easy to see the implications. Why don't you just come out and say it's a bad shoot and the guy should have been charged?

Anyways all that you're talking about isn't relevant.

The guy has the right to jog, has the right to carry his wallet while jogging regardless of how much money is in it, and he has the right to defend himself against someone who attacked him.

And according to the actual victim the punch dazed him.

Don't want to get shot? Don't go punching people in the face with the intent to rob them. You never know what's coming back your way.

ZombieKing
12-23-2011, 01:43
Oh and the picture links to a anti-gun site. Could we be more biased?

But even that site says the idiot 18 year old said he was going to rob Z28ricer and I doubt either of them knew how much cash Z28ricer was actually carrying.

emopunker2004
12-23-2011, 01:46
in FL all you have to do is be in fear for your life. You must be able to acticulate this.

Cavalry Doc
12-23-2011, 07:12
in FL all you have to do is be in fear for your life. You must be able to acticulate this.

That was on purpose, right?

SpringerTGO
12-23-2011, 08:56
I have decades of martial arts training/teaching, but quit a few years ago. Recently I decided to get back on the mat, to see if I could get back into decent shape. Even with all my years of training, a young strong decently trained person can make my life h**l on the mat. And I hurt for days afterwards. If someone were to sucker punch me the way Ricer was, I'd be in serious trouble. 2 on one after that, forget it.

Anyone giving him grief for putting 50% of his shots into his assailant under the circumstances he was faced with, is clueless.

And anyone giving him grief for jogging whenever, should move to CA.

John Rambo
12-23-2011, 10:11
Yeah it's pretty easy to see the implications. Why don't you just come out and say it's a bad shoot and the guy should have been charged?

Anyways all that you're talking about isn't relevant.

The guy has the right to jog, has the right to carry his wallet while jogging regardless of how much money is in it, and he has the right to defend himself against someone who attacked him.

And according to the actual victim the punch dazed him.

Don't want to get shot? Don't go punching people in the face with the intent to rob them. You never know what's coming back your way.

Really? I mean, really? REALLY?

Could you be any further off-base? I mean, wow, could you at least make the straw man you've erected resemble me a little bit?

The guy was well within his rights to shoot the scumbag, and its a shame the other little degenerate didn't go down with him. Thats been my stance since I first heard about this story and that'll be my stance any time anyone asks me.

I swear to god, you people start foaming at the mouth and looking for a fight so quickly its not even worth talking to some of you.

John Rambo
12-23-2011, 10:13
That doesnt look anything, at all like what you've said.

Only thing you've said is a bunch of your own agenda on what you think happened, and/or why.


Since you seem to be so inquisitive about the amount of cash in my pocket that night, I had finally been repaid for an engine/transmission that I loaned someone the money for, which was the large majority of the cash that was in my pocket.

I couldn't give a **** less about the amount of money you had in your pocket that night. Just like everyone on TR and TF said, with the exception of Will who was trying to start ****, weird but doesn't matter.

PAGunner
12-23-2011, 11:08
The guy was well within his rights to shoot the scumbag, and its a shame the other little degenerate didn't go down with him. Thats been my stance since I first heard about this story and that'll be my stance any time anyone asks me.

Glad you clarified your stance, but the way you came off gave us a different impression... At least it gave me a different impression.

Z28ricer
12-23-2011, 11:10
That sure seemed like it from the posts.

Add it with the misconstrued crap that I hear every other day, that one of this guys friends THINKS happened that night. And why he wants to attempt some sort of revenge, its amazing.

Pretty certain every last one had some different bull**** story to tell the detectives investigating what actually happened, so every so often during what I'm sure was drawn out far longer than it should have been investigation i'd have detectives stopping by to ask about some new stuff from off the wall, that made no sense whatsoever.



As far as those asking and talking about sights, hits etc, I had been hit in the head, some want to claim a fist, I didnt, and still dont buy that as i've got pretty large hands, and couldnt span the area I was hit, clearly at the top of my cheek bone and split my lip inside all the way along to the opposite side, pictures of this taken on scene by the sherriffs office. There were several seconds between this and me coming back upright to face the duo, quite possible for him to have handed his weapon to his buddy to continue their attack, only then shots were fired, 2nd guy goes running, he was gone for a long time, and could have easily hidden any possible weapons.

Coming back around to an attacker shouting "Ni**a you james, whats up now" at me, vision blurred, attacker reaching for his left side and jumping around while advancing, I drew and fired, yes I was able to see the projection of the laser, sights I definetly wouldnt have been able to see due to the vision issue, aside from the fact that one is/was damaged from several drops the gun from it being my edc.

PAGunner
12-23-2011, 11:23
Coming back around to an attacker shouting "Ni**a you james, whats up now" at me, vision blurred, attacker reaching for his left side and jumping around while advancing, I drew and fired, yes I was able to see the projection of the laser, sights I definetly wouldnt have been able to see due to the vision issue, aside from the fact that one is/was damaged from several drops the gun from it being my edc.

Z28ricer, please for your sake be careful what you post on here and don't worry about getting into petty disagreements with people on here.

The thing I find interesting is the laser, I'd always thought about putting a laser on my Glock, but seems most people on here like to call people "mall ninjas" or whatever other nonsense to people who put lasers on their guns. Seems like a laser might have some actual utility based upon your real life encounter. To me, that is useful information.

Cephus0807
12-23-2011, 11:30
Thats for the other guy who said 'You don't know him.' The guy wasn't terribly large nor formidible. And apparently, he punched like a little sissy girl, because all he managed to do was split Baker's lip.
Back when i used to box and kickbox i saw many punches that knocked someone out but never cut them or caused much swelling. Your point here is stupid to say that all the kid did was split the guys lip. So just because the kid didnt rip the guys jaw off and jam it up his *** it couldnt have phased him?

Z28ricer
12-23-2011, 11:40
Z28ricer, please for your sake be careful what you post on here and don't worry about getting into petty disagreements with people on here.

The thing I find interesting is the laser, I'd always thought about putting a laser on my Glock, but seems most people on here like to call people "mall ninjas" or whatever other nonsense to people who put lasers on their guns. Seems like a laser might have some actual utility based upon your real life encounter. To me, that is useful information.

I dont have one on my Glock, though I'd like to, the CT laserguard is definetly something I will be adding to it, yes people like to bash people for what they've got, or make claims as to why they dont need it, ignoring the facts.

Fact #1, Just like a firearm, you cant suddenly get it when you need it if you dont already have it, you can not use it when you dont need it.

Fact #2 It really does help with training, i've used it numerous times when teaching friends/family, its easy to show someone they're anticipating recoil and dipping the muzzle when they can see the little red dot drop like a rock.

Fact #3 For those guys who want to claim superiority for training with thier sites, and being proficient with them, so they dont need it, I guess not only do they completetly ignore things like trigger pull, anticipation, etc that the laser does help in training for, they're also not able to simply change the position of the switch to the "OFF" selection.

Fact #4 Right back to those same guys above who want to claim it will "give away your position" (right, in their long drawn out gunfight, with cover and concealment), apparently that little switch is tricky and elusive.


As to what i've posted, none of it is anything thats not already in the report, and is exactly what happened, what the newspapers were so glad to print was quite inaccurate, misleading, and downright BS, the only things they got right were names, the caliber, and managing to print my own address, having some of the truth out will likely do more good than bad at this point.

SpringerTGO
12-23-2011, 13:46
What's amazing is that a guy comes on a carry forum with a story about how he was assaulted, used a weapon in self defense, was cleared by the police, and then he gets a hard time for it.
Percentage of hits, placement, why did he hit an unarmed attacker..... etc. etc. etc.

I'm waiting for the OC group to chime in about how if his weapon was visible this would never have happened.:rofl:

BailRecoveryAgent
12-23-2011, 17:12
Once again, John Rambo proves his arguments are infantile and not to be taken seriously.

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emopunker2004
12-23-2011, 17:14
That was on purpose, right?
:whistling:

Bren
12-23-2011, 17:57
Once again, John Rambo proves his arguments are infantile and not to be taken seriously.

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Allow me to point out, once again, that we have several members who are so far left and/or so far contrary to the real-world shooting community, that I suspect they are just anti-gunners pretending to own guns so they can troll up fun arguments with shooters.

Aux Bear
12-23-2011, 18:48
Allow me to point out, once again, that we have several members who are so far left and/or so far contrary to the real-world shooting community, that I suspect they are just anti-gunners pretending to own guns so they can troll up fun arguments with shooters.

I believe this is really the case.

BailRecoveryAgent
12-23-2011, 21:02
Allow me to point out, once again, that we have several members who are so far left and/or so far contrary to the real-world shooting community, that I suspect they are just anti-gunners pretending to own guns so they can troll up fun arguments with shooters.

I'm convinced you're 100% correct.

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John Rambo
12-23-2011, 21:05
Once again, John Rambo proves his arguments are infantile and not to be taken seriously.

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Yes. It should not be taken seriously that he was justified in his actions. Good job, Sparky. You're an asset to your cause.

BailRecoveryAgent
12-23-2011, 21:31
Yes. It should not be taken seriously that he was justified in his actions. Good job, Sparky. You're an asset to your cause.

Its you that is not to be taken seriously. You crap in every thread you visit practically and take positions on issues just so you can be a d-bag. You make outlandish statements without backing up your assertions, then exit when you've been proven a fool. You're no doubt a legend in your paintball social circle and I'm sure all the strippers you frequent at skin clubs really are interested in you and what you have to say.

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PAGunner
12-24-2011, 04:01
Allow me to point out, once again, that we have several members who are so far left and/or so far contrary to the real-world shooting community, that I suspect they are just anti-gunners pretending to own guns so they can troll up fun arguments with shooters.

Sometimes I wonder about some people on here and start thinking what you've stated, but let me play Devil's advocate. I was NEVER a left winger, not even close, BUT when I lived in NY (born and raised), I thought it was very difficult for anyone to get a handgun or a scary black rifle anywhere in the USA. This is the mentality of your typical New Yorker, they simply don't know any better/different.

When I move to PA I was STUNNED how easy it was to buy a gun and even carry one. In my mind I thought there should have been mandated training requirements, I also thought it was crazy to keep one in the pipe and only the truly paranoid did that. I had a lot of warped views back then, I was a product of my environment.

Slowly pro-2a/gun people started to challenge my views and educate me, I did my research and my wisdom grew. I'm embarassed of my previous ignorance and warped opinions on the issue. My point in stating this is that some people simply don't know any better, but with the right attitude and words we who believe in freedom can persuade a good many people to see the light. Therefore, I think we should be a little patient with some members on here. Despite their current views which may be a little off, it's likely one day their views will mature and they'll be staunch supporters of our side (freedom).

Been a long night for me, so if my rant doesn't make sense, I apologize in advance, I just wanted to offer some food for thought.

steveksux
12-24-2011, 10:56
Not really. The attackers were a couple of underage kids.

These kids weren't big and strong. I really doubt the punch phased him much.

Heres a picture of the dead scumbag, for reference.

http://www2.tbo.com/mgmedia/image/0/354/39504/no-charges-for-jogger-in-town-n-country-fatal-shoo/

Thats for the other guy who said 'You don't know him.' The guy wasn't terribly large nor formidible. And apparently, he punched like a little sissy girl, because all he managed to do was split Baker's lip.

Thanks for repeating everything I already said.

That doesnt look anything, at all like what you've said.

Only thing you've said is a bunch of your own agenda on what you think happened, and/or why.


Since you seem to be so inquisitive about the amount of cash in my pocket that night, I had finally been repaid for an engine/transmission that I loaned someone the money for, which was the large majority of the cash that was in my pocket.
So after all this, Rambo has the nerve to go off???

Really? I mean, really? REALLY?

Could you be any further off-base? I mean, wow, could you at least make the straw man you've erected resemble me a little bit?

The guy was well within his rights to shoot the scumbag, and its a shame the other little degenerate didn't go down with him. Thats been my stance since I first heard about this story and that'll be my stance any time anyone asks me.Strawman???? This is the same underage, sissy punching mostly harmless teen you were referring to earlier? :rofl:

Sounds like a complete 180 degree turnaround from what I read.

I swear to god, you people start foaming at the mouth and looking for a fight so quickly its not even worth talking to some of you.

Sounds like you're the one not worth talking to. Nothing but a troll stirring up trouble, then whining when he gets called out on it. Note: Pretending you didn't say what you just said doesn't work as well on the internet when all the stuff is actually written down.

Randy