Grrrr, trying to set up Dillon Square Deal B [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Pro 2A
12-12-2011, 23:34
I just spent a few hours trying to get the press set up, but I ended up having to take it back apart and unmount it and remove the work surface because I had to change the frame of my bench. I had a 2x4 in the front positioned so that the the wide face was the front of the frame (to give it the most support) and flush with the edge of the work surface. But even after major cutting and chisling (and attaching/removing the press a few times) I couldn't get it to work right without parts of the machine bumping the frame. :steamed:

So my project for tomorrow is to cut a new piece of 2x4 and install it so the narrow side is facing out (then add an additional vertical support post). Not sure why they had to design it so that things were sticking out UNDER the unit behind the point that contacts the face of the bench. I guess that's why they sell the extra cost, tall mount (that I didn't buy).

But I did finally get the light fixture wired in, after finding out the builder cut corners (big surprize) and the light switch junction box I wanted to use didn't have the right wires, even though based on their color they should have been what I needed. What a screwy junction box (even the electrician I ended up calling to look at it said so). Oh and the breaker box wasn't correctly marked either, so I ended up getting shocked after I thought I had turned off the correct breaker. :shocked::steamed: After that, I tried another breaker that I thought it could possibly be based on it's lable, double checked it with a tester and nope, not it either. Somehow, the breaker that box was conected to was also for some lights at the other end of the house!
:faint:
Took awhile to find that! I ended up having to tie into a different wire, add a new junction box and now I have to add a switch (since I tied into an outlet line instead of a switch line). I also re-labled the junction box! And reset all the electronics and clocks that got turned off in the process.

Why is nothing ever as easy as it should be! Getting that light wired in should have only taken 15 min. tops, not three days, 3 trips to the hardware store and a visit from an electrician!!

Hopefully getting the press back on and working properly won't be as much of an ordeal as the light turned out to be!

creophus
12-13-2011, 07:17
Sorry that there's a hassle setting up the press. I mounted mine to my bench without the strong mount and had no issues. I simply set the press on the edge of the bench, drilled the holes and that was that. I don't know what parts are causing you trouble.

Colorado4Wheel
12-13-2011, 07:40
Flat bench. No more then 1.5 inch's thick. 1 inch overhang (or is it 3/4", call and ask dillon). That should get her done.

Boxerglocker
12-13-2011, 08:29
I just spent a few hours trying to get the press set up, but I ended up having to take it back apart and unmount it and remove the work surface because I had to change the frame of my bench. I had a 2x4 in the front positioned so that the the wide face was the front of the frame (to give it the most support) and flush with the edge of the work surface. But even after major cutting and chisling (and attaching/removing the press a few times) I couldn't get it to work right without parts of the machine bumping the frame. :steamed:


Flat bench. No more then 1.5 inch's thick. 1 inch overhang (or is it 3/4", call and ask dillon). That should get her done.

If you are building a bench you always want to have overhang in front just for this issue.

PCJim
12-13-2011, 09:20
I mounted mine to my bench without the strong mount and had no issues. I simply set the press on the edge of the bench, drilled the holes and that was that. I don't know what parts are causing you trouble.

Same here on the SDB that I used to have. Mounted flush with the bench front which, based on my interpretation of your description, is built the same. A 2x4 frame on edge with a 3/4" plywood surface screwed to it.

Oh, and on the electrical, there are several ways a circuit can be wired, especially one involving lights - feed may go to the switch box, or to the lamp box with a switch leg running to the switch. If the latter, both wires SHOULD have been taped black so that anyone looking in the switch box would know that both legs were running hot.

I learned long ago to always use a circuit tester (or lamp if suitable) to confirm the power is off. I don't like working on hot circuits, period. My moment of truth occurred when working in a quad box in a kitchen. Plugged the lamp in one duplex outlet, found the breaker and turned it off. Went to remove both duplexes and found the second one was on a different breaker! Legal by code as best I can determine, but what an eye opener. I suppose it works for the kitchen since you might have a heavy load on either of the two duplexes, but still... I learned my lesson.

Electrical work, to me, is rather fascinating. At the same time, it is definitely serious work and one had best respect it.

Hope to hear your SDB is up and running real soon....

Colorado4Wheel
12-13-2011, 09:48
If you are building a bench you always want to have overhang in front just for this issue.

I know the 650 requires a overhang. So I would encourage people to make every bench with that small amount of overhang just in case. My 550 did not need the overhang with my 2" thick bench. But my 650 did not like the 2" thick and I had to whittle a little away.

GioaJack
12-13-2011, 10:35
Shouldn't make any difference how your support 2X4's are facing, the SD will mount flush without an overhang or with the 2X4 facing mounted vertical.

Unless you're trying to mount it higher there is no need for a strong mount.


Jack

gforester
12-13-2011, 14:19
What Jack said.

I mounted my SDB flush against the bench front which is a 2x4 mounted on edge to make a strong support. You can't easily run a through bolt in the 2x4 but I just used two large lag screws in the front mounting holes and a through bolt with nut and washer in the rear mount hole.

On my 650XL I used the strong mount to get the clearance I needed.

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q285/gforester/LOADBENCH.jpg

Pro 2A
12-13-2011, 18:01
What Jack said.

I mounted my SDB flush against the bench front which is a 2x4 mounted on edge to make a strong support. You can't easily run a through bolt in the 2x4 but I just used two large lag screws in the front mounting holes and a through bolt with nut and washer in the rear mount hole.

On my 650XL I used the strong mount to get the clearance I needed.



Hmmm, That's the set up I had, but the spent primer cup mount kept hitting the bottom of the 2x4 when I pulled the handle down. And the rod to the powder charge was rubbing the front of the bench. But I'm not certain I have that rod connected correctly. It's not moving the powder charge bar fully. I have to contact Dillon on that. The set-up video talked about what he was doing, but it had the maching between the camera and what he was doing at the bottom, so none of that was visible. And the written directions aren't much more help because it references part numbers that aren't in the parts list. It doesn't look like the spent primer cup can fit on any other way given where the holes are (I triple checked that) and it WAS shown in the video being put on the way I have it mounted.

I put the 2x4 flush with the edge so that the 90* angle of the machine's mount was making contact on the front (so it wouldn't be relying only on the lag screws and the bolt to not wobble forward).

I'll see if I can get some photos. I already changed out the 2x4 and put it in with the narrow edge to the front, but I still put it flush with the edge. There should be enough clearance now. I hope.

gforester
12-13-2011, 19:12
here are a couple of close-up shots of mine. As you can see the powder drop rod has just enough clearance to operate. The primer catch cup clears as well. The edge of the primer cup bracket that the powder drop rod passes through just lightly touches the front of the bench, but with no binding.

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q285/gforester/SDB-1.jpg

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q285/gforester/SDB-2.jpg

jfrey
12-13-2011, 20:11
Sorry about your problems and frustration. It can be a total agrivation at times. I did spring for strong mounts on both my SDB's and I consider it money well spent. The mount takes away all the mounting problems and clearance issues.
Good luck on getting it set up tomorrow. The SDB is a great press and will load lots of quality ammo. I found on both of mine that they are easy to set and get started loading but after about 200 rounds things got really smooth and the press runs great.

Colorado4Wheel
12-13-2011, 20:18
Is it really that hard to attach a press to a bench?

Pro 2A
12-13-2011, 20:25
Is it really that hard to attach a press to a bench?

Attach it? No, I have attached mine a few times now. But getting it to operate once attached is the trick :whistling:

Pro 2A
12-13-2011, 20:26
here are a couple of close-up shots of mine. As you can see the powder drop rod has just enough clearance to operate. The primer catch cup clears as well. The edge of the primer cup bracket that the powder drop rod passes through just lightly touches the front of the bench, but with no binding.






Your catch cup looks totally different from mine.

Colorado4Wheel
12-13-2011, 20:38
Attach it? No, I have attached mine a few times now. But getting it to operate once attached is the trick :whistling:

Yeah I was talking about getting the strong mount to make attaching it to the bench easier. To me, you get the strong mount because you want the extra height, you like the premade bullet and empty case bins, and perhaps because it spreads the load out a little. Like you said, attaching a press to the bench is not a big deal. Did you read the instructions from the start. All of them? Not just diving into the section and looking for your specific problem?

Pro 2A
12-13-2011, 20:43
Here is the primer catch cup in place (bracket for the finished rounds is removed). You can see how far under the machine it sits.
http://glocktalk.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1311&pictureid=5094

This photo has just the bracket in place, cup removed. As you can see, it doesn't look like there is any other way to attach the two screws near the ejection hole
http://glocktalk.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1311&pictureid=5095

Close up of the bracket, the cup is NOT slid all the way into place so the ejection hole is visible
http://glocktalk.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1311&pictureid=5096

Pro 2A
12-13-2011, 20:46
The whole base of the machine that the cup is attached to slides up and down, so there has to be significant clearance between the underside of the countertop and the top of the bracket so it can move to it's highest point.

GioaJack
12-13-2011, 20:47
It would appear they've changed their design. Sneaky bastards.


Jack

Pro 2A
12-13-2011, 20:51
I just measured. There is only a hair less than 3" between the top of the bracket and the underside of the mount. So the surface the machine is attached to has to be less than 3" thick total. And the cup intrudes 2", so a 2" overhang is needed if the 3" thickness is exceeded.

Stupid design if you ask me!

Pro 2A
12-13-2011, 20:57
Did you read the instructions from the start. All of them? Not just diving into the section and looking for your specific problem?

I purchased the video and had it running on my laptop as I was putting it together. But they fail to show the rod attached to the primer catch bracket and the black and white pictures in the directions are not helpful since it's a blue nut against a blue catch cup and it's too far away to see the details. The written instructions reference parts and part numbers that are not found on the main parts list and I have no idea what pieces they are refering to. I'll send photos and possibly video to Dillon and see what they say because it's not moving the powder dispensing bar like it should and even if I lift the rod manually it doesn't move the powder bar completely.

Colorado4Wheel
12-13-2011, 21:44
So that kinda sounds like a No to me. I think Videos are a mistake. I think your better off using the manual from the start. The first 5 pages are all exploded views of each and every part of the press and item numbers. The rod (#16814)does not activate the powder measure, it returns the bar back to it's at rest position. The Powder Measure is activated by the Powder Funnel (no item number in picture because it's caliber specific, # found in back of manual). Powder funnel is inside the powder measure die. I think you should start at the beginning of the manual and forget the video. Dillon manuals are actually pretty good.

Colorado4Wheel
12-13-2011, 21:52
That design does look different. It would be tough for that thing to not get in the way. It would be fine on my bench but anybody using draws under their countertop would be screwed. For the record, the 550 doesn't have any of these issues. I would call dillon and see if they will send you the older style parts.

PCJim
12-13-2011, 22:36
Yep, design change. One thing about the new design, there is no gap between the exit hole and the old style catch cup. There is no chance of primers getting away from you.

They need a new design for the 550b primer system and catch.

Pro 2A
12-13-2011, 22:36
I grew up with 2 engineers and am familiar with exploded drawings, but I still couldn't make sense of the directions. Maybe they revamped their directions too? There were only three pages (front, back and front of next page) that took the user from unpack to working so not much info there. And most of the space was taken up by black and white photos of blue on blue items that are all the same shade of grey. I was glad I had the video! On the video he goes through the unpacking and set up in real time from start to finsh and shows close ups of each item (except the bottom of the rod).

bush pilot
12-13-2011, 22:51
Your catch cup looks totally different from mine.

You can get the newer style by calling Dillon, takes about 2 minutes to swap over.

ALBin517
12-14-2011, 05:47
I grew up with 2 engineers and am familiar with exploded drawings, but I still couldn't make sense of the directions.

I am a licensed professional engineer. When I vented here about the directions on my 550b, the "friendly folks" of Glocktalk pounced on me like I didn't know a socket from a screwdriver.

Colorado4Wheel
12-14-2011, 10:33
I am a licensed professional engineer. When I vented here about the directions on my 550b, the "friendly folks" of Glocktalk pounced on me like I didn't know a socket from a screwdriver.

So the OP comes to state a problem. Says he watched the video. Says the instructions are incomplete. Never says he used the instructions from "start to finish" to try and setup the machine (that was my suggestion and I asked if he had). Says the instructions don't give all the part #s for the machine. Says the instructions only have 3 pages of info for setup.

http://www.dillonhelp.com/manuals/english/Dillon-Square-Deal-B-Manual-May-2007.pdf

First 4 pages are exploded views of each and every part after that,
7 pages of setup and how to use the press.

So you have someone who is struggling with a press. They have a engineering background but don't use the tool that

1) Helps them figure it out themselves by using it start to finish.
2) Even more importantly, give everyone on a forum who is trying to help them a common frame of reference. IE: "On page 8 of the manual, it says I should use part XXXXX to do blah blah...."

I even told him something a while back reference a particular part # that I think he has some confusion about. He ignored that information and continued to complain about the manual not being that great. So it's kinda hard to help someone when you don't even know if we are talking about the same part. THAT is why the manual is so important. It gets everyone talking about the same part (via part #'S) and everyone is looking at the same information.

GioaJack
12-14-2011, 11:18
Hornady instructions for mounting a LNL.

Plunk LNL down on edge of bench top. Drill four holes, run screws or bolts through press base into bench top, tighten... commence to load. :whistling:


Jack

Colorado4Wheel
12-14-2011, 11:19
Hornady instructions for mounting a LNL.

Plunk LNL down on edge of bench top. Drill four holes, run screws or bolts through press base into bench top, tighten... commence to load. :whistling:


Jack

WRONG



It's two holes. :wavey:

GioaJack
12-14-2011, 11:20
I'm an over achiever.


Jack

PCJim
12-14-2011, 14:52
WRONG



It's two holes. :wavey:

Guess Jack doesn't read directions, either? :supergrin:

Colorado4Wheel
12-14-2011, 16:38
Bob and I do.

Pro 2A
12-15-2011, 10:02
Just spoke with Dillon...

The piece I thought was missing is already installed at the factory instead of me having to install it. And I didn't realise that the powder measure was case dependant (it won't work properly without a case under it). That's why the powder measure bar wasn't travelling fully. I was trying to test operation before I got a case in there.

I DO have to cut away more of my bench to create clearance for the rod- stupid design if you ask me. His solution was "well, you could always get a strong mount".

And he's sending me another part for the connection at the base of the rod because what I have isn't working properly.

So once I get that part and cut away more of my bench, I SHOULD be good to go. Gun show is this weekend and I'll pick up the powder, primers and bullets. Hopefully I'll be cranking out some rounds by Monday! Keeping my fingers crossed that everything goes smoothly now.

Pro 2A
12-15-2011, 13:29
I made more progress today.
This is what I had to do to accomodate the powder bar reset rod
http://glocktalk.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1311&pictureid=5108

This is what the area looks like now
http://glocktalk.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1311&pictureid=5107

I still need to paint the front of the bench that I had to rebuild, add another shelf on the left side and stock it with powder, primers, bullets, brass, etc. that I'll get at the gun show this weekend.

This is in my basement, so the floor is concrete, but I covered it with this padded vinyl remnant to reduce any moisture and to make anything spilled easier to clean (and I like the way it looks). I'm sure I'll add storage options as I learn what I need.

WiskyT
12-15-2011, 18:30
WRONG



It's two holes. :wavey:

Maybe that's why yours didn't work. You should have used four holes.

Butch
12-17-2011, 12:33
It would appear they've changed their design. Sneaky bastards.


Jack
I guess they have!

Mine are also the old style, I cut the catch cup off and clamped rubber hoses to them to funnel the old primers right into a big jar on the floor. I would find a way to do the same with the new style!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/ButchG17/Ammo%20pics/DSC09104.jpg

Pro 2A
12-17-2011, 20:39
I guess they have!

Mine are also the old style, I cut the catch cup off and clamped rubber hoses to them to funnel the old primers right into a big jar on the floor. I would find a way to do the same with the new style!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/ButchG17/Ammo%20pics/DSC09104.jpg


Interesting solution :-) There is nothing on the bottom of the machine. The ejection hole is flush with the bottom of the machine and the bracket wouldn't really help much with this unless it could somehow be used to hold the hose? The bracket is still needed to attach the rod anyway. And it's the bracket that goes under the face of the bench (along with the hole the rod goes through).

Now that I cut away my bench, it's working just fine. And I got the part I needed from Dillon today! THAT was FAST! I'll be heading to the gun show tomorrow to stock up and will be ready to start cranking them out!