Question about open carry (WASHINGTON) [Archive] - Glock Talk

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GlockGuy17
12-13-2011, 19:29
I have tried searching everywhere for this and it is very hard to narrow it down to my state, which is WASHINGTON. So if anyone here is from Washington and knows the law please brief me.

Was wondering basically what the difference was between concealed and open carry. Is it as simple as not visible vs. visible? I know you have to have a permit for concealed carry, do you have to have one for open carry?

I read somewhere that the weapon must be visible from 3 out of the 4 angles of the body...is this true?

Is it legal for me to carry my gun on my hostler attached to the right side of my belt and walk around in public (given that firearms are permitted).

xmanhockey7
12-13-2011, 21:09
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?131-Washington I'd suggest going here.

xmanhockey7
12-13-2011, 21:11
1) Where can I carry in Washington? Washington State follows British legal tradition, which states that anything that is not proscribed as unlawful is lawful (also called the "Rule of Lenity," which stands for the proposition that whatever is not prohibited by law is allowed.)
So the real question is; where can you NOT carry in Washington? There are four main state statutes that one must be cognizant of: RCW 9.41.050 (Carrying Firearms), RCW 9.41.280 (Carry on School Grounds), RCW 9.41.300 (Weapons Prohibited in Certain Places), and RCW 70.108.150 (Firearms in Outdoor Music Festivals). It is your responsibility to read and understand the definitions and exceptions in the law. RCW 9.41.050 is the primary law which affects gun carrying on a day to day basis. This law makes it unlawful for one to conceal a pistol without a concealed pistol license (hereinafter called CPL), and also makes it unlawful for one to carry a loaded pistol in any vehicle, whether it be openly carried or concealed carried unless a person has a valid CPL(see RCW 9.41.060 on Exceptions). Loaded is defined as having ammunition inside of the gun itself (magazine inserted with ammunition with semi-auto, ammunition in cylinder for revolvers). Localities may also prohibit the carrying of handguns in the stadiums and convention centers that they operate, however they MUST exempt those who possess a concealed pistol license. There are also federal statutes you must be cognizant of: 18 USC 922 (q), which prohibit the carrying of a handgun within 1000 feet of a school unless you are licensed to carry or meet another exemption to this law. The constitutionality of this law is questionable in light of United States v. Lopez and District of Columbia v. Heller. To our knowledge, there has been no prosecutions of this law where this is the sole charge. 18 USC 930, which prohibit the carrying of firearms in any "federal facility" or any "federal court facility."

2) What is "Warranting alarm", why do people (firearms instructors, police officers, gun shop employees) say that this law makes it illegal t o open carry? In 1969, RCW 9.41.270 was passed in light of the intimidating actions of the Black Panther Party in both the State of California and in Seattle. Analysis of the legislative intent behind the bill and final law indicated that the Washington State Legislature never intended this to be a gun control bill, and stripped out in committee provisions of the bill which would have prohibited carry within 500 feet of any "public building" for fear it would ensnare a peaceable open carrier walking nearby, thereby violating a persons rights under Article 1, Section 24 of the Washington State Constitution. This is not to say that all forms of open carry are lawful. The key word is "peaceable". If your pistol is in a holster, and you're generally not touching it or making gripping movements (except of course, in an actual act of self defense), or opening a coat to expose your pistol to intimidate someone to do something, then the current body of case law (state v casad, state v. spencer) generally makes such carry lawful.

3) Can I open carry on a Bus, Train, Ferry, Personal Auto, Motorcycle or Bicycle? (RCW 9.91.025) The right to carry a gun or ammunition in a fashion is not otherwise prohibited by law on a MUNICIPAL TRANSIT VEHICLE (Greyhound /Amtrak is not a municipal transit vehicle). Busses, Trains & the Ferries are considered vehicles in Washington. You may carry loaded either openly or concealed in or on any vehicle if you possess a CPL (RCW 9.41.050 (2a)).
Amtrak
If there is nothing Prohibiting such Conduct..., then, it is Safe to assume such Conduct Legal. However, Federal Law, Enumerated under TITLE 18 PART I CHAPTER 97 1992, states: 1992(7) Commits an Act, Including the USE of a Dangerous Weapon, with the Intent to cause Death or Serious Bodily Injury to any Person who is on Property described in SubParagraph (A) or (B) of Paragraph (4);
Under Federal Law, the USE of Firearms with such INTENT is what is ILLEGAL, not just having them. Under Federal Law 18 U.S.C. 930, Trains, including Amtrak, do NOT qualify as Federal Facilities, because Amtrak employees are NOT federal Employees. If found to be carrying you more than likely would have to disembark at the next stop.


4) Can I carry in a bank, grocery store, church? They are all private property and may impose their own rules. The Federal Government may own shares of a bank but they DO NOT function as Federal Property.


5) Can I carry at or near a school? Or College? (RCW 9.41.280)
If you have a valid CPL and are picking up or dropping off a student you are allowed on the school grounds. Firearms are not permitted in school buildings. Colleges set their own policies, most of which seem to ban lawfully carried guns. South Puget Sound Community College in Olympia is the only college in this state we know of that does not specifically ban lawfully carried guns from their campus.

6) I saw a park sign saying no firearms. Is that legal? (RCW 9.41.290) No. Washington State has preempted all firearms laws regarding possession. You may carry in any city, county, state, National Forest or National Park in Washington State.

7) Can I carry with a round in the chamber? (RCW 9.41.010)(10) & (RCW 77.15.460) defines "loaded" in Washington state. Unloaded means; Empty cylinder, empty chamber, no full mag or tube, not capped or primed.

8) How old do you have to be to carry a loaded handgun? (RCW 9.41.240) You must be 21 years of age to carry a loaded handgun in public. See RCW 9.41.060 for exceptions.

9)What states accept the Washington CPL?
AK, AR, AZ, FL, IA, ID, IN, KY, LA, MI, MS, MT, MO, NC, ND, OH, OK, SD, TN, TX, UT, VA, VT

10) Can I carry in a bar? (RCW 9.41.300) No. You cannot carry in a place where alcohol IS consumed AND is off limits to persons under 21. Restaurants that serve alcohol are fine.

11) Where can I get information about firearms & licensing in Washington state?
http://www.dol.wa.gov/business/firearms/index.html

12) Who am I required to show my CPL to, and when? The law is somewhat vague, but essentially IF you are required to have a CPL in your possession, you are obligated to produce it to qualified persons (such as law enforcement) if they demand it. Also since you have to have a CPL to carry loaded in/on a vehicle, regardless of OC or CC, I would argue a transit vehicle operator might also want to see a CPL before allowing you on the vehicle. There are no firm rules or laws on this matter that I am aware of though.

13) Where can the latest edition of the Washington Gun Rights Pamphlet be found?
http://www.washingtongunrights.com/ocdo/wgr.pdf

14) Is there a list of gun friendly businesses? Yes, Friend or Foe is a website you can plug in a zip code or city and find those pro businesses. Green is pro / red is anti.
http://www.friendorfoe.us/

15) Where can I see a list of all available training bulletins from law enforcement agencies across Washington?
http://forum.nwcdl.org/index.php?action=downloads

16) Flying with a handgun
TSA regs: http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtrav...rial_1666.shtm
Check the regulations on the airline on which you are traveling, they may have rules against weapons.

17) Gun Ranges and Gun Shops across Washington
http://www.waguns.org/rangemap
http://www.waguns.org/storemap

18) Can I own and use a suppressor? ( RCW 9.41.250) Yes, as long the suppressor is legally registered and possessed in accordance with federal law.

No license is needed to open carry however it is highly recommended that any person who open carries in the State of Washington acquire a CPL. Washington is a “Shall Issue” state for CPL’s. Meaning that if you meet the requirements in RCW 9.41.070 you will be issued a license within 30 days(resident) and 90 days(non-resident) by law.

This document is in no way legal advice. Consult an attorney on legal matters.

Read through the forum. This is on there. Anything you don't understand or have a question about just ask.

GlockGuy17
12-15-2011, 22:35
Thank You (:

PlasticGuy
12-16-2011, 11:02
There are a lot of places you can open carry in Washington. There are also a lot of places that you can't, whether because it is illegal or because it is posted. If you accidentally open carry somewhere that you shouldn't, everyone knows and you can get into a lot of trouble. If you accidentally concealed carry somewhere that you shouldn't, nobody knows and you don't get in trouble. That, plus I see no tactical advantage in letting everybody know you have a gun. Every advantage, both legal and tactical, goes to concealed carry.

I have asked several people why they open carry. The standard response has been "because I can". I can get a tattoo of a wiener on my face legally, but that doesn't make it a smart choice. Make the smart choice.

xmanhockey7
12-16-2011, 13:21
There are a lot of places you can open carry in Washington. There are also a lot of places that you can't, whether because it is illegal or because it is posted. If you accidentally open carry somewhere that you shouldn't, everyone knows and you can get into a lot of trouble. If you accidentally concealed carry somewhere that you shouldn't, nobody knows and you don't get in trouble. That, plus I see no tactical advantage in letting everybody know you have a gun. Every advantage, both legal and tactical, goes to concealed carry.

I have asked several people why they open carry. The standard response has been "because I can". I can get a tattoo of a wiener on my face legally, but that doesn't make it a smart choice. Make the smart choice.

Yes if you open carry or concealed carry you should know the laws well. Even more so with open carry which I see as a good thing. And I wouldn't say CC gets every advantage. If the OP chooses to open carry that is HIS choice. If YOU choose to CC that is your choice.

To the OP: If you want to open carry that is your choice. Make sure you know the laws like the back of your hand and that you have a holster with good retention. I personally like the Safariland 6377 but I would encourage you to find one that you like and works best for you. Don't let people discourage you from open carrying. If it was what you want to do then you should do it. I would also recommend carrying a back up gun and a voice recorder. I am not sure about what the laws are regarding recording conversations but in many states only one party has to know you are recording. And if you are part of the conversation then you are a party.

Bill Lumberg
12-17-2011, 06:50
Don't confuse can with should. Either way, stay conversant with applicable laws.

PlasticGuy
12-17-2011, 09:35
Don't confuse can with should. Either way, stay conversant with applicable laws.

Exactly. The population centers of this state are not very gun friendly. If you choose to open carry, you choose to deal with potential harassment if you do it right, and much worse if you somehow screw it up. It is legal here, but extremely uncommon. Bad idea.

kylet
12-17-2011, 09:51
I also live in Washington. I asked a similar question here almost 2 years ago. Do the work and read up the law like I did. Its very beneficial.

Also... be prepared to get strange looks if you OC... not very common in Washington IMHO.

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BailRecoveryAgent
12-17-2011, 11:42
Exactly. The population centers of this state are not very gun friendly. If you choose to open carry, you choose to deal with potential harassment if you do it right, and much worse if you somehow screw it up. It is legal here, but extremely uncommon. Bad idea.

The Bellingham to Olympia section of the I-5 corridor is where you will find the largest concentration of anti-gun sentiment, go outside that area, and its pretty gun friendly. Where I live, it's probably still uncommon per se to see people OC, but it isn't uncommon to see it on occasion either.

East of the Mountains, Spokane area, you'll run into the alot of the same anti-gun types, but not as bed as the Bellingham-Olympia area. Open carry somewhere like Winthrop, Okanagon, Chelan, Omak, or Wenatchee, you'll probably be fine. Open carry in a more densely populated liberal area like Seattle or Olympia, you'll probably get some looks.

I don't OC unless doing something outdoors like hunting, fishing, hiking etc, or on occasion for work. Conceal carry is so easy to do, it would take much more effort on my part to effectively pull off open carry since I don't tuck in my shirts or dress real fancy like.