Home invasions.....THIS is why we carry.... [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Beretta92guy
12-15-2011, 03:53
even in the home......

the thread below got me to thinking about the Wichita massacre and what the two carr brothers did to these young people during a brutal home invasion...

below is a link and a lengthy read, but it is well worth it.........

this is why my Beretta or Glock stay on, or near me even when im relaxing....

prepare to get sick reading this,,,,,,,i know i did:upeyes:

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/classics/carr_brothers/index.html

SouthernBoyVA
12-15-2011, 07:36
I read this several years ago and it's just as sad and depraved now as then. I have no feelings of human compassion or sympathy for animals who commit any sort of murder and when you add to it what these subhumans did to their victims.... well there are hardly words to describe what I would like to see done to them.

Kansas use to hang murders and in my opinion, hanging is one of the best methods of execution. It's inexpensive and it tends to strike fear in the heart and mind of the condemned. I very well remember celebrating with a friend of mine from Kansas on April 15, 1965 when we heard that Perry Smith and Dick Hickok had been hung for the murders of the Clutter family in Holcomb, a crime that haunts me to this day.

Are the Carr brothers still on death row? Do you know what the status is at this time?

ithaca_deerslayer
12-15-2011, 08:15
Yep, that type of story certainly sets one toward a shoot it out with bad guys mindset, and not give in.

jamesbern
12-15-2011, 08:26
Wow...no words to describe how much anger I felt reading that.

liberty addict
12-15-2011, 09:42
Southern Boy -- the article says that in 2004 (when the Carrs were on death row), the Kansas SC found Kansas's death penalty to be unconstitutional. This was being contested but the article says it appears the Carrs would just be in prison for the rest of their lives.
Another article I saw indicates they are still on death row -- but that Kansas hasn't executed anyone in 44 years. If this had happened in Texas or Oklahoma these two ***wipes would be dead now!

voomie
12-15-2011, 09:56
I couldnt read it past the seconds page with how angry I was becoming. It is a shame that people thing that an expensive classy neighborhood means that it is protected from all crime. I used to think that way until my wife's car got broken into and her work purse stolen out of it. I signed up for my carry course the next day.

SouthernBoyVA
12-15-2011, 12:58
Southern Boy -- the article says that in 2004 (when the Carrs were on death row), the Kansas SC found Kansas's death penalty to be unconstitutional. This was being contested but the article says it appears the Carrs would just be in prison for the rest of their lives.
Another article I saw indicates they are still on death row -- but that Kansas hasn't executed anyone in 44 years. If this had happened in Texas or Oklahoma these two ***wipes would be dead now!

Yeah I saw that, but thanks for the get back. I was just wondering if there were any recent changes to their status.

As for it happening in Texas, same for Virginia. Our two states lead the nation in putting murders in the ground instead of bed and breakfast on the taxpayer dole for the rest of their lives. Here, we take a dim view of crud like this.

ZekerMan
12-15-2011, 13:35
I watched some of the trial on the Wichita New Channel, those 2 black brother POS rapist, killers never showed one ounce of remorse and I have no doubt had they gotten away with it they would have done it again. Now they have an appeal coming up in June so I read. This is a sad part of the Justice System that really pisses me off. We have been taking care of these sorry pieces of dirt for 10 yrs. now.

Beretta92guy
12-15-2011, 17:33
Southern Boy -- the article says that in 2004 (when the Carrs were on death row), the Kansas SC found Kansas's death penalty to be unconstitutional. This was being contested but the article says it appears the Carrs would just be in prison for the rest of their lives.
Another article I saw indicates they are still on death row -- but that Kansas hasn't executed anyone in 44 years. If this had happened in Texas or Oklahoma these two ***wipes would be dead now!

thats a shame, too.....these two animals need to be put to death by hanging or firing squad

ZekerMan
12-15-2011, 17:41
thats a shame, too.....these two animals need to be put to death by hanging or firing squad

I agree, feeding those scumbags for a lifetime would be damn shame and discredit to Justice for the families.

IndyGunFreak
12-15-2011, 17:46
These guys deserve to rott for what they did to those people. Another GT'er got me interested in this case a few years ago, and he found a website where you could buy the transcript of HG's testimony for $5.

It is easily one of the most disturbing things I have ever read in my life. The death penalty is to good for the Carr Brothers.

Beretta92guy
12-15-2011, 17:56
also, i remember reading this story years ago in a magazine, i think it was time or newsweek......

this story, for some reason, just really disturbs me....it has for years......and i remember reading the lengthy version on the link i posted in the OP.......

i think the part that disturbs me is just how "random" it was.....and IIRC, they actually got the WRONG house...they thought it was another persons house that they had scoped out earlier and followed home from a parking lot, or something like that.....

making those young people strip naked, perform dispicable acts on each other, terrorizing them, taking them in trips to the atm machine to get cash, and finally herding them all into that field and executing them......just makes me so GOD FREAKING angry when i think about it........

If just ONE of those kids had a gun in the house, knew how to use it and ventilated those two worthless pieces of feces!!!!!!

its amazing the girl that survived was saved by the beret she was wearing in her hair that deflected the bullet that was shot into her head............

and the part about the two scumbags not even showing a sliver of remorse in court!!!!!

sickening...........just sickening.......makes me very sad.............

IndyGunFreak
12-15-2011, 18:15
Wasn't one of the brothers (or maybe both?) convicted of the robbery/murder of another woman, that was totally unrelated to this crime?

TrueGunNut
12-15-2011, 18:18
Eye for an eye. I say justice would be dishing out to them what they dished out. Being raped, beaten and executed in the snow! F*%^!!!!!! Pure evil people....

Beretta92guy
12-15-2011, 18:22
Wasn't one of the brothers (or maybe both?) convicted of the robbery/murder of another woman, that was totally unrelated to this crime?

yeah, before they did the heinous crime of killing those young people, the approached a middle aged woman in her car and she tried to drive off and shot her in the head, she was dying in the hospital while these two scumbags were commiting their last home invasion/murder that is described in the article

ksmedman
12-15-2011, 19:00
Well, I guess I'll chime in. Can't believe it's been eleven years...

I knew Brad slightly at KII, where I also worked at the time. That this kind of crime could happen here in Wichita was shocking, that it could happen to someone I knew was startling... My wife and I had moved from Orlando in '97, in part because we were worried about the crime and starting a family. (Cost of living was a big factor too, but that doesn't relate to this story.)

The crime, and the horrific story of the surviving victim, where a big wake up call for KS, and I maybe even a driver for public opinion and concealed carry... Then the BTK thing came out, and I think people realized that even KS could really be a dangerous place.
Honestly, KS is a pretty safe place, and Wichita is very safe, statistically, for it's size. But there is no place safe from evil...

I type this, sitting in my house in Wichita waiting for the debate to start, with a G19 IWB. I carry at home all the time. Even if it's just a J frame in the pocket of my cargo shorts during the summer. My wife carries too, she won't end up raped and executed, not if she can help it.
I don't think about the Carr bros, (though I do hope they're being ritually raped in prison) but I know that I will never be victimized like those young people were. Can't say I'll never be a victim, but I will do everything I can to change the outcome.

unit1069
12-15-2011, 19:20
This story presents the dilemma one faces when an assailant has the initiative.

1) You take your chances and follow the assailant's commands, hoping to survive, as the first victim did.
2) You follow directions and hope to survive like the rest of the victim's didn't.

I read as much as I can about real and possible scenarios but when it comes down to it every situation is different.

Locked doors, outside motion lights, and an alert dog are all good passive and active sentry systems. Just tonight my wife and I noticed a stopped car we both thought looked suspicious, being that this is the time of year when burglars are looking to rob residences. Often in these situations a crime of theft turns into one of murder also.

Reading this account causes me to pray for the victims and the victims of all those who have suffered a similar fate. It's a real challenge for me to pray for the perpetrators and so far I haven't been able to feel the same commiseration for the perpetrators' condition as for their victims, but all humans fall short I'm told.

For a long time I've believed in the death penalty for the reason that facing a definite, ultimate, and just penalty for a heinous crime may be the only way someone without compassion, pity, or humanity may find the means to save his/her soul.

Calico Jack
12-15-2011, 19:48
Wow. It's difficult to even comprehend someone being able to commit such acts.

Maine1
12-15-2011, 20:31
No surprise.
Even in my small, rural town, we see crimes that we would only expect in larger urban areas. 81 YO lady STABBED to death in her own home. 34 times.
Kidnappings, home invasions, rapes, armed roberies, machete attacks. In small town USA.
No mercy is shown by these pukes.

I have resolved to act well within the law, but to be utterly ruthless and extrmely violent when i have to defend my family. Like all of you i do not WANT to have to do this, i want to be left alone, but i hav essen enough of this to know that i will not allow it to happen to me and mine.
long ago i commited myself to being armed at all times. And when unarmed, or even naked, i am determined to attack those who would hurt my family with extreme and horrific violence. My goal is to kill the others with the sheer shock of seeing what happens to the first guy.
Overkill is confidence.

404GlockR
12-15-2011, 20:54
This is what I refer to when people say im obsessed with my guns....for CCW from the minute I wake up until the minute I go to bed (which at that point I have my G30 1 foot from me) This is a prime example that people can be victimized at ANYTIME....even when you think "its safe now im in bed." Very sad story.... I think the Carr brothers should be used for training purposes for LE and Military.

Beretta92guy
12-16-2011, 03:31
i got the feeling that the kids who were murdered were all very responsible, respectable and kind human beings......the kind of people that wouldn't hurt a fly.......and believed that if they gave those two goons what they wanted they would let them live......sadly, that was wrong!!!!

I have decided that under no circumstances will i depend on the mercy of some thug to "allow" me to live after attempting to rob, rape, murder, etc. me.......

I will resort to whatever means necessary to protect myself....i just wish those young people had done the same :(

John43
12-16-2011, 08:10
You may think it may never happen to you but everyone needs to be prepared. The neighbor across the street was struck in the head with a pistol when he was at a gas station, at 70+ years old. The neighbor down the street came home just after burglars had ransacked his home. My next door neighbor was awakened by noises in his house. His girlfriend said someone was in the house. He went out the front door and waited in the dark by a small tree with a piece of pipe. They had a pickup backed into his driveway and were loading things in the back of the truck. When they were discovered one of them drove off and when the other came out the garage and ran by the tree he leveled him with the pipe. He got up and ran after he lost most of his teeth. It turns out he was the neighborhood handyman that worked in everyones yard. After he got out of jail the neighbor ran into him at a gas station and he told my neighbor "No hard feelings man". My neighbor told him he's lucky he is living. All of this happened over a ten year period.

H&K 4 LIFE
12-16-2011, 08:54
I live in CT, where just now, five years later, the courts are finally deciding that the murdering scum responsible for the Cheshire home invasion, which resulted in the rape and murder of three innocent woman, deserve the death penalty.

These scumbags burned the two daughters alive! :steamed:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheshire,_Connecticut,_home_invasion_murders

I need no more supporting evidence to justify continuing to go armed against the tyranny of evil men.

SouthernBoyVA
12-16-2011, 14:35
While I am an ardent supporter of our Bill of Rights, I do think some leeway could be considered for death sentences of murders. I would not oppose a state performing executions in kind and type which the murders carried out against their victims. Barring that, there are other methods we could easily return to for execution.

I think a lethal injection is far too sterile and painless. At the minimum, electrocution should be used. And hanging is probably one of the best methods to use and has the added benefit of low cost. The thing is, animals like the Carr brothers do not deserve to live any longer than absolutely necessary. I have to wonder how their council can sleep at night.

cowboy1964
12-16-2011, 15:59
According to wikipedia they are back on death row. Some quick Googling is not turning up anything on when they may possibly (finally) be executed.

Every additional breath they take is an abomination of justice.

Agonizer
12-16-2011, 16:16
One thing I can't understand is not fighting back. I don't care if I was armed with nothing, I would fight to the death before I would cooperate with thugs like this.

It's like when the Jews were led like sheep to their death...no resistance.

Beretta92guy
12-16-2011, 16:51
one thing i can't understand is not fighting back. I don't care if i was armed with nothing, i would fight to the death before i would cooperate with thugs like this.

It's like when the jews were led like sheep to their death...no resistance.

this +1

jellis11
12-16-2011, 17:09
I have to wonder how their council can sleep at night.

Probably soundly with fat bank accounts, unfortunately...

I think people like this should be put to death in the exact same way that they did to others.

SCmasterblaster
12-16-2011, 19:50
even in the home......

the thread below got me to thinking about the Wichita massacre and what the two carr brothers did to these young people during a brutal home invasion...

below is a link and a lengthy read, but it is well worth it.........

this is why my Beretta or Glock stay on, or near me even when im relaxing....

prepare to get sick reading this,,,,,,,i know i did:upeyes:

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/classics/carr_brothers/index.html

WHEN I READ THIS,

the only thought running through my mind over and over again was,

"Why weren't any of these people armed and defensive minded?"

wjv
12-16-2011, 22:00
I'd give them the death penalty just for what they did to the dog . . .

It's sad that somewhere along they way they didn't run into someone who was armed and knew how to use their gun!

Some people are pure immoral sociopaths. . .

Hour13
12-16-2011, 22:37
Horrifying. My cousin & his lady suffered a home invasion in the late 90s, but thankfully it didn't end like that. It was one guy, they fought back(with a lamp IIRC), and the BG fled.

People who don't get it, would probably see me as "paranoid"...

As I type this, I can see the butt of my G22 peeking out from under the monitor. There's a FEG 9mm Makarov behind the knife-block on the kitchen counter. My HK .40 USP sits on my nightstand when I'm not carrying it. And my 7+1 Rem 870 12ga is leaning up in the closet, 3 steps from the master bathroom.

I don't live in fear, I don't stalk around my house gun-in-hand, lol. But I'll be damned if I'm gonna get caught with my pants down, so to speak. There's nowhere I'll be in my house, that I can't get to a gun quickly & easily.

I don't worry bout my GF when I'm not there. She prefers the Makarov, but she knows how to use every weapon in the house.

Does any of this guarantee my safety? Of course not. But should somebody get the better of me...

I'll be wearing their blood to my funeral.

Beretta92guy
12-17-2011, 03:57
WHEN I READ THIS,

the only thought running through my mind over and over again was,

"Why weren't any of these people armed and defensive minded?"

some people are just like that......my sister is that way.....would not hurt a fly, and if someone confronted her like those two savages she would just give them whatever they wanted, begging them not to hurt her........

i know one thing, if those two savages had picked my house to pull that off, things would have been entirely different and at least one, if not both, of them would have met their maker on that night:steamed:

PolymerPackin
12-17-2011, 04:21
seriously makes you angry to read that article! I gave my sister a certificate to send in for a free Ruger LCR on Easter sunday this year just for this reason, and to this day she never sent it in and ignores me when I bring it up? It's just her and her 2 daughters. makes me crazy when I think about it.

user
12-17-2011, 07:50
People sometimes ask me whether I think they ought to be armed in their own homes as a general rule. I always say, "Absolutely; it is a proven fact that nearly one hundred per cent of all home invasions actually occur within someone's house!"

LApm9
12-17-2011, 10:30
Probably soundly with fat bank accounts, unfortunately...

I think people like this should be put to death in the exact same way that they did to others.

Their legal team sees "the system" as the enemy. The murderer/torturer is a victim of "the system". So they are protecting the victim in their own minds.

Of course, they probably live in a highly secure gated community or building so the "victims" can't get at them.

jellis11
12-17-2011, 12:47
I talked to my wife about what she would do if alone, or if I was with her. She knows I carry and if she is ever held from behind or something she has a little plan to try getting away for a brief moment when I could do something, or if I am hurt she knows how to use my weapon.

I asked what she would do if alone (she doesn't carry) and she remembers what I told her and some self defense class years ago. If she can kick straight into the knee, groin, hit throat or poke eyes. She said they told her as soon as an abductor takes you away from the initial point of contact your chance of survivability drops to less than 10%.

I'm glad she knows to go all out and try to get away and not be taken/raped... But it confuses me that she is a woman, small, knows survivability is next to nothing... and she still doesn't want to get her CWP, is too lazy to take another SD class and wants an OC/mace gun. "where are you going to keep it, you have to be able to find it in your big @55 purse quickly."

"i'm going to keep it in the car" !?!?!?!?!

Misty02
12-17-2011, 14:09
seriously makes you angry to read that article! I gave my sister a certificate to send in for a free Ruger LCR on Easter sunday this year just for this reason, and to this day she never sent it in and ignores me when I bring it up? It's just her and her 2 daughters. makes me crazy when I think about it.

Unfortunately, a firearm is not the answer for everyone. For a long time I too insisted that my sister get a firearm, at least for the house. It was not until I stopped talking and started listening that I realized had I succeeded I could have done more harm than good. Often she said (but I didnít listen) that she could never bring herself to shoot a person, regardless. I donít quite believe that, I think all humans are capable of incredible violence if it is necessary to defend one of their own. However, what if I was wrong? What if all I accomplished was to arm an intruder with her own weapon?

It was not easy to learn to accept that she had as much right to not own a firearm as I did to own one. It still worries me and I often provide her with educational links about self-defense, awareness and fortifying the house and the like but Iím no longer pushing her to get armed.

If one day she decides to do so Iíll help her with the research and all that good stuff, but the decision will have to be hers and once she decides sheíll use it if the need arises.

.

Misty02
12-17-2011, 14:11
Their legal team sees "the system" as the enemy. The murderer/torturer is a victim of "the system". So they are protecting the victim in their own minds.

Of course, they probably live in a highly secure gated community or building so the "victims" can't get at them.

Then they should be given the opportunity to bring those two ďvictimsĒ home and stay with their family.

.

tuica
12-17-2011, 14:12
As someone once said: " The Second Amendment is not about duck hunting."
Cheers.

SCmasterblaster
12-17-2011, 14:19
even in the home......

the thread below got me to thinking about the Wichita massacre and what the two carr brothers did to these young people during a brutal home invasion...

below is a link and a lengthy read, but it is well worth it.........

this is why my Beretta or Glock stay on, or near me even when im relaxing....

prepare to get sick reading this,,,,,,,i know i did:upeyes:

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/classics/carr_brothers/index.html

The story begins with a middle-class man being robbed at gunpoint, forced to go to several banks to make withdrawals for the felons. I stopped reading after the first few paragraphs. I didn't want to read how the victinm was further victimized. It was all the victims own fault. He had done absolutely NOTHING to prepare himself for criminal attack. As for me, whenever I am awake, I have a loaded G17 pistol on me, ready for whatever. I therefore live a very peaceful life. I do not have to live in fear. If some criminal interferes with my daily routine in a felonious, violent way, then he gets cut in half with a dozen 9mm +p+ 115gr jhp bullets. End of story. :cool:

Misty02
12-17-2011, 14:26
The story begins with a middle-class man being robbed at gunpoint, forced to go to several banks to make withdrawals for the felons. I stopped reading after the first few paragraphs. I didn't want to read how the victinm was further victimized. It was all the victims own fault. He had done absolutely NOTHING to prepare himself for criminal attack. As for me, whenever I am awake, I have a loaded G17 pistol on me, ready for whatever. I therefore live a very peaceful life. I do not have to live in fear. If some criminal interferes with my daily routine in a felonious, violent way, then he gets cut in half with a dozen 9mm +p+ 115gr jhp bullets. End of story. :cool:

No, it was the criminalís fault. As prepared as any of us believe we are, we too can become the victim of a criminal. Carrying a firearm may increase our chances of survival and provide other options, but it doesnít guarantee it.

.

unit1069
12-17-2011, 14:42
Then they should be given the opportunity to bring those two ďvictimsĒ home and stay with their family.

.

This has been tried before.

Some years ago the writer Norman Mailer was seduced by the prison writing of convicted murder Jack Henry Abbot, who penned In the Belly of the Beast.

Because of his enormous Leftist influence all the bleeding heart liberal/Left organizations backed releasing Abbot from prison and he subsequently was. Abbot was hailed as an "authentic" cry against the capitalist system of oppression and a role model of self-rehabilitation.

Months later while dining with a lady friend Abbot felt "dissed" by a waiter and challenged the waiter to step outside to settle the matter. Abbot had secreted a knife that he used to murder the waiter immediately after following him through the doorway into the alley where the issue was to be decided the old-fashioned way.

Misty02
12-17-2011, 14:52
This has been tried before.

Some years ago the writer Norman Mailer was seduced by the prison writing of convicted murder Jack Henry Abbot, who penned In the Belly of the Beast.

Because of his enormous Leftist influence all the bleeding heart liberal/Left organizations backed releasing Abbot from prison and he subsequently was. Abbot was hailed as an "authentic" cry against the capitalist system of oppression and a role model of self-rehabilitation.

Months later while dining with a lady friend Abbot felt "dissed" by a waiter and challenged the waiter to step outside to settle the matter. Abbot had secreted a knife that he used to murder the waiter immediately after following him through the doorway into the alley where the issue was to be decided the old-fashioned way.


Oh, I didnít mean expose the rest of society to the criminals, just their family. A house arrest in lieu of a cold prison (sort of) for their entire sentence. :)

SCmasterblaster
12-17-2011, 15:40
No, it was the criminalís fault. As prepared as any of us believe we are, we too can become the victim of a criminal. Carrying a firearm may increase our chances of survival and provide other options, but it doesnít guarantee it.

.

Okay, it was the criminal's fault. either way, the crminal should end up shot to death on the pavement. We have a Second Amendment recently confirmed by the SCOTUS. Let's all get trained, armed, and prepared. There are heartless criminals out there looking for easy targets.

Misty02
12-17-2011, 16:06
Okay, it was the criminal's fault. either way, the crminal should end up shot to death on the pavement. We have a Second Amendment recently confirmed by the SCOTUS. Let's all get trained, armed, and prepared. There are heartless criminals out there looking for easy targets.

Iím all for being armed and prepared as well as getting trained. I have very defined and narrow reasons for being armed. Iím not as concerned with the final fate of the criminal as I am with the survival of my loved ones. The only reason a criminal would end up shot to death on the pavement would be because he endangered one of mine, wrong move on the wrong family.

In spite all preparations I remain aware we can still be vulnerable to an attack where we donít succeed; which always calls for more training, planning and preparing. Vicious circle, isnít it? :)

.

SCmasterblaster
12-17-2011, 16:39
Iím all for being armed and prepared as well as getting trained. I have very defined and narrow reasons for being armed. Iím not as concerned with the final fate of the criminal as I am with the survival of my loved ones. The only reason a criminal would end up shot to death on the pavement would be because he endangered one of mine, wrong move on the wrong family.

In spite all preparations I remain aware we can still be vulnerable to an attack where we donít succeed; which always calls for more training, planning and preparing. Vicious circle, isnít it? :)

.

Yes, it is! :wavey:

Stupid
12-17-2011, 17:12
I do agree with being armed and all that. I also think the most effective way is to tell politicians to start making tough laws.

I'd want a law that says anyone commits a crime with a deadly weapon would be sentenced to life without parole. :-)

pugman
12-18-2011, 17:36
A friend of mine 5 years ago went through something like this.

Caught a man in her bedroom...unfortunately for her she had time to grap her .357...put the man to the ground, called 911, and he was arrested.

The scary thing...outside they found a bag with duct tape...a razor...some rope...mace..

To this day it freaks her out knowing what could have happened to her.

Why she didn't fire I'm still a little unsure.