Rem 870 Tactical w/ghost ring sights shoots high. Now what? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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sharpshooter
12-15-2011, 06:08
My new 870 Express Tactical with factory XS ghost ring sights shoots high. *Now what? *

First shots w/slugs at 25 yards were 12" high and 12" right. *I adjusted the rear sight all the way down and it still shot 6" high same distance. *I got the windage adjusted but the rear sight is cranked way over to the left almost as far as it goes. *Same results with buckshot and birdshot, all shoot high at all distances with a modified choke and a cylinder choke. *At 10 yards it's still a solid 3-4" high. *

Now what? Nothing looks crooked or anything. I removed the rear sight and rail and reassembled it, no change when I shot it again, still high.*I tried drifting the front sight over with a wood dowel ant it fell out. I pushed the front sight blade back into center position with my thumb. *It stayed put after 20 shots but is it supposed to be that easy to push?

Winchester bulk slugs and 00 buckshot
Federal bulk 7.5 shot
Factory tactical choke
Carlson's modified choke
Using a center hold sight picture
Shot from front sandbag and standing
Distances lasered w/rangefinder

aippi
12-15-2011, 10:54
Install a higher front blade. Drift the front sight to make up for windage errors of those sights. Once you have the sight in the place it needs to be then glue it there.

sharpshooter
12-15-2011, 12:30
Do you know off hand which brand makes a taller one that will fit? Any dot sight will work for me, tritium too. Thanks!

aippi
12-15-2011, 12:43
There are multiple front sights out there for your weapon. Not sure what front sight you have as I have never seen that model except in pictures. There are two sizes of front Rifle sights for the Remington Barrels. The low one has an oval base that sticks over each side of the sight base. The High one fits flush. Part number for the high sight is #94084 and retails on the Remington Parts list for $8. Ask for this by part number only and you will get the right one. It is on the model 700 parts list. All rifle sight parts for the shotguns barrels are on the 700 parts list so don't let the cubical clown taking the order confuse you.

You will spend much more for tritium sights and none sell simply the front that I know of. Trijicon front sights are the Highest, Zone 3 is also a high sight. Meprolight is lower then the others.

Install the Remington part I gave you should reslove the high point of impact issue you have.

sharpshooter
12-15-2011, 14:30
This is what I have, (pics from the internet) front sight base looks soldered on.

http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad43/DiRTYDOG223/photo-30.jpg

http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad43/DiRTYDOG223/photo-31.jpg

http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad43/DiRTYDOG223/photo-33.jpg

aippi
12-15-2011, 15:24
that is a low profile sight. Put the one that I have gave you a part number for and your high point of impact issue is over.

sharpshooter
12-15-2011, 15:52
Thank you! Also thanks for the tutorials on your web site, they were very helpful for a first time 870 owner.

sharpshooter
12-15-2011, 16:40
Couldn't find part 94084. Maybe they renumbered the parts?

This it?
http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad43/DiRTYDOG223/photo-34.png

aippi
12-15-2011, 17:19
I am trying to help you with your issue. What you are showing in your last post is not from the Remington Parts list. It most likely the Remington Country store which is not even ran by Remington but by a Vendor on contract from Remington and they don't know squirt. Don't trust other sites to get you the right part. Call Remington at 800-243-9700 and follow the prompts to parts. when the customer service rep answers, order part number 94084 as that is the High sight.

So, your post is the wrong part from the often incorrect Remington Country store. And yes, I know more about this then they do.

sharpshooter
12-15-2011, 17:23
Ok, thanks!

G19Tony
12-15-2011, 19:57
I have the exact same shotgun and mine is right on. Strange. :dunno:

I did get a regular IC choke and got rid of the breacher choke. :whistling:

sharpshooter
12-16-2011, 11:09
I got the part ordered but it's on back order and won't ship for 3-4 weeks. Any other sources for this part?

Ferdinandd
12-16-2011, 11:51
I have the same shotgun and a similar POI issue; worse with slugs than buckshot though. When practicing at 7 and 15 yards, the problem isn't as noticeable, but is more pronounced at 25 yards.

I'm considering swapping the original barrel with screw-in chokes for a fixed choke barrel. I'm not through testing yet, but it seems like this barrel delivers patterns with BK that are more open and irregular than the ones that my IC barrel produced.

You may consider mounting a red dot to address the problem also.

sharpshooter
12-16-2011, 12:22
I've considered a red dot since it has a rail, and I'm not interested. I purchased this more expensive model with ghost ring sights so I wouldn't have to pay a gunsmith to drill/tap the budget model at $25/hole and wait 4-6 weeks for the "service".

Interestingly, this is the second American made firearm I've purchased this year with the same exact problem of a too short front sight. No it's not just me, the problem was verified by another shooter. The other was a .22 rifle that had to be returned to the factory to get repaired and that took 3 months to get back.

oneg
12-18-2011, 14:33
My 870 has the same issue. I sent it to Remington but when I got it back it had the same issue. I thought they would bend the barrel down but it still shoots high. On the bright side it is perfectly sighted for 1oz slugs at 200 meters.

sharpshooter
12-18-2011, 17:08
Interesting to see there are several others with the same issue...

sharpshooter
01-24-2012, 17:04
XS front sight on the left, Remington #94084 on the right.
http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad43/DiRTYDOG223/583bd592.jpg

I installed the new taller sight. It is loose in the dovetail slot, I can easily push it back and forth with my fingers. It could easily fall out on accident. I'll have to glue it in place...

But it DID fix the elevation. It now shoots exactly to point of aim with slugs/00buck/shot at 40 yards.

But the rear ghost ring is still screwed all the way down as low as it will go, so there is no room to adjust the point of impact higher if I wanted to. So the sight actually needs to be a little bit taller, but oh well.

Also the rear sight is still pushed ALL THE WAY to the left. Here it is from the muzzle end looking back.
http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad43/DiRTYDOG223/5d1c8ca8.jpg

There is no more room for adjustment. Sure it works, but it's clearly off center. I bring the rifle up naturally centered on my shoulder and eye, but then I have to lean over to the left to compensate for the sight being so far off. That's messed up. I will ship this rifle back to Remington to get both sights repaired as soon as hunting season is over (double duty hunting/HD gun). For now it's at least usable.

sharpshooter
01-24-2012, 17:08
Note: The Remington sight is a POS compared to the XS sight. It's rough in texture, loose in the dovetail slot, and the dot is not round.

Aceman
01-25-2012, 19:10
I do not get the fascination with Ghost rings on HD shotguns...

Deer with a slug way out there? Yep.

Bad guy with buck in my foyer? Nope.

seamastersw
01-25-2012, 19:44
I have the same gun and had the same problem. I called Remington and asked for them to send me a taller front sight. They asked the serial # and then sent on out to me at no charge. As for the windage issue, I have the same problem. There really isn't anyway to center the rear sight unless you drift the front sight the opposite direction which gives a terrible sight picture. I wish Remington would have a little better QC with this sight system because it is great on paper. I also took that silly choke off. I shoot a variety of loads and one is the federal flight control wad. The wad expands inside the choke and the holes shave plastic off, plus it ruins the pattern with the wad. I put in a simple improved cylinder and couldn't be happier.

Buffering
01-25-2012, 19:53
I put in a simple improved cylinder and couldn't be happier.

Unless it's task specific, time and time again the best answer with a shotgun is often the simple one.

sharpshooter
01-25-2012, 20:52
I do not get the fascination with Ghost rings on HD shotguns...

Deer with a slug way out there? Yep.

Bad guy with buck in my foyer? Nope.

This is the "Tactical Shotgun" forum, not the "Home Defense Shotgun" forum. Please discuss your HD sight preferences in another forum. :rofl:

My shotgun with factory installed ghost rings is actually stamped "Rem 870 TACTICAL" right on the receiver. :supergrin: Does your HD shotgun say it's "tactical"?

Mine is a double duty hunting/HD shotgun, as previously stated. In that order. Hunting first, then HD. Not bird hunting. Predator hunting, where tight patterning shots to 30-40 yards are the norm.

It is very easy to look "through" or "past" any iron sights while focusing on the target. It's called point shooting and it's extremely effective. I'm extremely proficient at doing this with a pistol at distances typical to home interiors. It's no different with ghost rings on a shotgun. It's not a peep sight, it's a ghost ring, and it's called that because the ghost ring virtually disappears as you focus on the front sight/bead. Or look straight through both sights up close like you would shooting a pistol quickly at 5 yards. In a HD situation we're talking about distances from 0-7 yards typically, right?

Yup I replaced that silly choke first thing. Wanna buy mine?

Aceman
01-26-2012, 17:30
This is the "Tactical Shotgun" forum, not the "Home Defense Shotgun" forum. Please discuss your HD sight preferences in another forum. :rofl:



Now that right there, that's funny stuff!

UrbanOps
01-26-2012, 17:59
When I shoot slugs past 25 yards, they are always high and right as well. Buck shot is dead on. I learned to compensate. This is with my 870 tactical and my agency's 870 Wingmaster and 870P.

sharpshooter
02-08-2012, 11:50
Tried calling Remington several times but the wait times on hold were rediculous. Finally got through to them today after holding for 24 minutes. The tech said I must have gotten the shortest of three front sights in the XS configuration. He told me he's sending me the highest sight they have, which measures .450" tall. The XS sight I got with the gun is .350" tall.

BTW, the #94084 is also .450" tall and is just barely tall enough. It works, but it needs to be taller because my rear sight is lowered all the way down to get it to zero.

sharpshooter
02-17-2012, 15:16
Got the taller .4500" XS front sight. Here is the info:

1 EA F202057
Bin: 1372
870 XS FRONT SIGHT 0.4500 HEIGHT

Comparing it to the .450" tall regular sight, it might be a bit too low. The heights are the same, the difference is that the XS dot is much larger and sits lower than the regular small dot of the regular sight. We'll see...

oneg
02-21-2012, 17:14
I emailed Remington last weekend and informed them the my 870 shoots high. They replied they would be sending me a .450 high front blade XS sight. I received it in the mail tonight. I have not installed it but when I put it next to the original it is approximately 1/8 higher. Aside from the height the shape is identical to the original. It looks like it will work perfectly.

shadowskinner
04-27-2012, 12:24
I have same issue with my Rem 870 Tactical. But sounds like you guys got luckier with dealing with Remington than I did. Rem basically told me in an email to contact XS. XS never returned my email. Not that I was going to pay $60+ for a replacement anyway. I've since ordered a .450 high sight on Midway. It's all brass and will look like crud but guess I'll give it a shot.

sharpshooter
04-29-2012, 01:52
Make Remington ship you a new XS sight free! Demand it!

aippi
04-29-2012, 11:20
Well there Sharpshooter, I gave you the right advise and the right part and after the way you flamed ACE I should have left you to your own devices.

This is the Home Defense Forum as that is the only application you will ever have for that Tacti-fool shotgun you bought. Unless of course you are a Delta Farce Elite Ninja Tactical Operator performing black OPs.

I am also fasinated with why someone would put a peep sight on a close quarters weapon. There is no way a GR sight can be more accurate then rifle sights. The rear GR is on the receiver and the front on the Barrel. The barrel fits in to a knotch in the receiver and the magazine cap or mag tube coupling holds the barrel on. So, your sights can change each time you take the barrel off for cleaning or even during use. However, rifle sights are both on the barrel and once sighted in will always be sighted in. With a rifle sighted barrel I can put my barrel on your 870 and I am still sighted in.

Once again I regreat offering any advice to the Tacti-fool crowd on this forum.

countrygun
04-29-2012, 13:19
Well there Sharpshooter, I gave you the right advise and the right part and after the way you flamed ACE I should have left you to your own devices.

This is the Home Defense Forum as that is the only application you will ever have for that Tacti-fool shotgun you bought. Unless of course you are a Delta Farce Elite Ninja Tactical Operator performing black OPs.

I am also fasinated with why someone would put a peep sight on a close quarters weapon. There is no way a GR sight can be more accurate then rifle sights. The rear GR is on the receiver and the front on the Barrel. The barrel fits in to a knotch in the receiver and the magazine cap or mag tube coupling holds the barrel on. So, your sights can change each time you take the barrel off for cleaning or even during use. However, rifle sights are both on the barrel and once sighted in will always be sighted in. With a rifle sighted barrel I can put my barrel on your 870 and I am still sighted in.

Once again I regreat offering any advice to the Tacti-fool crowd on this forum.

You know, I used to worry about that a lot and was of the same opinion. I bought a Mossberg 500a with ghost rings and I found that since the front sight is and indicator of the location of the muzzle's position it isn't such a factor as I thought. with slugs for instance @ 50 yds the gun still groups within the same "circle", if you will ,before and after removing the barrel, with buckshot at closer range I detect no difference in the center of the pattern.

I thought this just might be a fluke, but last summer I finally got the Savage 99 takedown in 250/3000 savage that I long wanted. It was equipped with a peep sight. I put that to the test at the range and found that, at 100 yds, removing the barrel and reinstalling it resulted in less than a 3/8" difference in zero. It confirmed to me, at least with my guns, any change in zero with a "social" shotgun is insignificant, and even in a deer rifle at reasonable iron sight distance, would be as well.

aippi
04-29-2012, 14:10
Good point about the differances between Models. Some models have a more efficeint barrel mounting systems then others. The 870 is not the best system out there and I have seen slugs climb up and to the right because the magazine cap was loose. tighten the cap and correct the issue. But that is in target shooting. Threats and game are not paper targets that allow you to even know where your weapon is hitting, unless of course you put them down with the shot.

At 50 to 75 yards it matters little. But for some guy to want to hunt with this type of sight on an 870 and limit his accuracy makes little to know sence and shows a lack of understanding about this particular weapon. Same point with receiver mounted Optics. You are sighting in to the receiver and not the barrel. This is worst type of mount for a shotgun and for guys hunting and wanting accuracy they have to understand the design of the weapon.

sharpshooter
04-30-2012, 23:09
This is the Home Defense Forum as that is the only application you will ever have for that Tacti-fool shotgun you bought. Unless of course you are a Delta Farce Elite Ninja Tactical Operator performing black OPs.
Once again I regreat offering any advice to the Tacti-fool crowd on this forum.
What's with the snobbery? Your narrow OPINION of how a tool (shotgun) should be used is pretty shallow. As I stated above, this gun is primarily for hunting predators which requires aimed shots out to 40-50 yards. It will serve a secondary role as a HD gun in the off season.

That makes me a "Tacti-fool"? Hey look, here I am defying your opinion. I thought you said the only application for this shotgun was HD? Seriously? Are you that narrow minded? It can't be done! Not by a Tacti-fool! aippi cannot be wrong? Here is my Elite Ninja Operator Tacti-fool gun failing at hunting:

http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad43/DiRTYDOG223/68fd5e47.jpg
Oops, here it is again, still performing in a non-HD role:
http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad43/DiRTYDOG223/a58f9287.jpg

Get serious...

aippi
05-01-2012, 07:13
Yet you needed to come here for advice? Which I gave, you took and it solved your issue. You getting flip with Ace over a comment offended me as I had taken the time to help. It's OK since others have had this same issue so I posted how to correct it.

Any shotgun can kill those dogs, that does not mean it is the best configuration for that type of hunting. Any reasonable person who knows the configuration of your 870 Express knows it is not a hunting configuration and would not select that model for that sport. There are better sight options for that and you choose the worst possible sight option. Of course it can kill and you can use your Trap shotgun for HD. You paid for a tacti-fool configuration that is an embarassment to the Remington shotgun line. It's your money to waste the way you want just as I waste mine on other things. In your defense, you could have done worse and bought the 887 Tacti-fool. You bought an 870 so all is not lost.

shadowskinner
05-01-2012, 10:03
Make Remington ship you a new XS sight free! Demand it!

Hi, I sent Remington a follow up email with a different tone and it worked. thanks for your help.

125K9
05-01-2012, 13:21
Well, my 870 says "Tacticle" right there on the receiver where I engraved it. Now, it's official. Oops, I misspelled "Tactical." Oh my!:crying:

aippi
05-01-2012, 15:18
And it is an Express with the Express Matte finish. Knowing these weapons would be of benifit to you. People who know the 870 know this. Not that it matters as there is only one 870 and they differ only by finish furniture and a couple small parts. Try to read all my post and you will learn something. Also, your from Texas and not expected to be able to spell so no one is upset with you. Besides, being from the greatness gun state if anyone doesn't like the way you spell they can go jump. Texas should not suceed, it should invade and take over the other 49 and things would get put right again.

Just messing with ya, 125 and know you made a good joke about the engraving. But no kidding that Texas could fix this country and it needs fixing bad.

Veedubklown
05-01-2012, 18:43
Well, my 870 says "Tacticle" right there on the receiver where I engraved it. Now, it's official. Oops, I misspelled "Tactical." Oh my!:crying:

Mine says "Tastical". And I hang tactical balls (http://www.lapolicegear.com/brite-tactical-balls.html) from the butt stock.

sharpshooter
05-01-2012, 23:37
Any shotgun can kill those dogs, that does not mean it is the best configuration for that type of hunting. Any reasonable person who knows the configuration of your 870 Express knows it is not a hunting configuration and would not select that model for that sport. There are better sight options for that and you choose the worst possible sight option. Of course it can kill and you can use your Trap shotgun for HD. You paid for a tacti-fool configuration that is an embarassment to the Remington shotgun line. It's your money to waste the way you want just as I waste mine on other things. In your defense, you could have done worse and bought the 887 Tacti-fool. You bought an 870 so all is not lost.
The "best" configuration for hunting is purely subjective. Everybody doesn't have to agree with your opinion or preference. I know a lot more about hunting predators with a shotgun than you do, and clearly my setup works just fine even if "you" don't approve. Get over yourself and your Opinion-fool closed mindedness.

125K9
05-02-2012, 11:46
Aippi, I was just trying cover your back as you've been a great help to me on more than one occasion, and I'll always appreciate that. As for knowing one's weapon, I learned that early on in the jungles of Vietnam. Unlike hunting defensless coyotes, those things shot back. I've never hunted an animal, but have always thought that IF the animal had the ability to hunt you back and could kill you as well, THAT would make it a true "sport," or truly "tactical." Back to shotguns.

aippi
05-02-2012, 12:26
I knew it was a joke, and a good one. We've talked and I know you know not only Know these weapons but know more about most weapons then I do.