Lighter weight SS barrel that is accurate?? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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HAIL CAESAR
12-18-2011, 18:23
I am building a new rifle to tote around the fields and shoot coyotes. I have heavy rifles that shoot very sub-MOA, and I have light rifles that shoot 1.7's or so. I am looking for a 18 (or 16 inch) barrel that us not a "heavy" that will shoot sub MOA.

So far I have narrowed it down to this one.

http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=2902

Any one have experience with Rainier barrels or any other good suggestions?

Thanks for your time,
Al

faawrenchbndr
12-18-2011, 18:33
No first hand experience, but I have heard many good things about Ranier barrels.
That barrel is very close to the 16" Bison Armory 6.8 SPC barrel I have.
It ballances very well, I would prefer a 18" over a 16 in .223/5.56

HAIL CAESAR
12-18-2011, 19:57
I am really leaning for a 18, but the 16 would be lighter and stiffer (more theoretical than actual).

faawrenchbndr
12-18-2011, 20:00
Very true,.......but you would lose a little velocity with the 16"

Ljunatic
12-18-2011, 20:18
Back when I was looking for a similar upper, I had Adco Firearms cut a 20" down and reprofile it to govt. so it would be light enough to hump around with a bipod in place.

At the time it was a rather odd combo of 18" barrel on a M4 type lower, and the barrel choices we have now were just beginning to show up.

When (if) i need to rebarrel this upper I will most likely go the way your thinking with another 18" but in SS and in the SPR profile mold

steve1911
12-19-2011, 00:31
I have a rainier ultramatch that is sub MOA, in 16 bbl. it is very accurate with 75gr hornady match, and 77gr.OTM rounds.

Barrel you linked, i installed one on a friends rifle and it is nice shooter he has RDS on his rifle, no scope so around 2 1/2 to 3 MOA with mil spec trigger, with a better trigger and glass i'm sure it would cut it in half. hope this helps.



1911club#410

surf
12-19-2011, 02:52
You don't mention price so.....Noveske 16" lightweight SS barrel. Sub MOA, 29 oz. Or if you feel you need an 18" barrel the Noveske light SS is 32oz. Personally I don't see the advantage of the 18" over the 16" for coyote hunting ranges in 5.56.

The WOA, Shilen, FN make great barrels also, just to name a few.

1time
12-19-2011, 06:31
I am happy with my JP 18" light weight barrel. After a 30 round mag dump I shot 3 back to back .75 inch 5 shot groups at 100 yards and a 1.25 inch group at 200 yards. I was using a Millet 1-4 power scope.

HAIL CAESAR
12-19-2011, 15:18
Thanks everyone for their thoughts and experience.

You don't mention price so.....Noveske 16" lightweight SS barrel. Sub MOA, 29 oz. Or if you feel you need an 18" barrel the Noveske light SS is 32oz. Personally I don't see the advantage of the 18" over the 16" for coyote hunting ranges in 5.56.

The WOA, Shilen, FN make great barrels also, just to name a few.

I really don't feel like spending 5 bills on a barrel to shoot coyotes. I can buy a bolt gun used that will eat a AR alive for 5 bills.

I am really thinking the same way about a 16 inch barrel as you. You pay more for an 18 and all you really get is more weight. The velocity won't make that much difference out to normal shooting ranges. If I need to shoot further I got a 25-06 with a 26 inch barrel...I just wanted short and light with this gun.

Hell, I'd just buy a used light Savage bolt gun and use it but I like the AR so much. It gives me another reason to build one. I know....it's stupid.:embarassed:

HAIL CAESAR
12-19-2011, 17:23
I have a rainier ultramatch that is sub MOA, in 16 bbl. it is very accurate with 75gr hornady match, and 77gr.OTM rounds.

Barrel you linked, i installed one on a friends rifle and it is nice shooter he has RDS on his rifle, no scope so around 2 1/2 to 3 MOA with mil spec trigger, with a better trigger and glass i'm sure it would cut it in half. hope this helps.



1911club#410

I am really looking at the RUM barrel that you have. What kind of numbers are you getting?

AL

steve1911
12-20-2011, 00:10
77gr. 1/2in. the 75gr. run around 3/4 to inch. I only have about 550 rds. thru this bbl. the more i use it the more i like it.

I'm sure you would be pleased with the RUM BBL.


1911club#410

BBJones
12-20-2011, 12:46
I have heard nothing but great things about the RUM barrels, but to OP do you consider that to be LW? Looks pretty beefy to me. If I got one of those, I would turn it down for a LW precision build.

One advantage of an 18" is you can go with a rifle length gas system. If if was me, 16" middy but put an A5 buffer/tube and save the weight and length up front.

Singlestack Wonder
12-20-2011, 15:54
Here's an 18" tack driver.....

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/SPR-Mk-12-Upper-Receiver-Half-Groups-s/131.htm

If you are just looking for a barrel.....

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-18-SPR-SS410-Barrel-Rifle-Length-Gas-Ionbond-p/bcm%20ss410%2018-8%20ib%20bk.htm

HAIL CAESAR
12-20-2011, 16:52
77gr. 1/2in. the 75gr. run around 3/4 to inch. I only have about 550 rds. thru this bbl. the more i use it the more i like it.

I'm sure you would be pleased with the RUM BBL.


1911club#410

Thank you very much. I keep hearing good things about these barrels but I ALWAYS like reports with numbers.

I have heard nothing but great things about the RUM barrels, but to OP do you consider that to be LW? Looks pretty beefy to me. If I got one of those, I would turn it down for a LW precision build.

One advantage of an 18" is you can go with a rifle length gas system. If if was me, 16" middy but put an A5 buffer/tube and save the weight and length up front.

It is not a true LW, but to me it would be a LW or a lighter weight option. Especially if you compare it to a true varmint or national match barrel.
I am really leaning toward a 16 mid also.

Here's an 18" tack driver.....

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/SPR-Mk-12-Upper-Receiver-Half-Groups-s/131.htm

If you are just looking for a barrel.....

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-18-SPR-SS410-Barrel-Rifle-Length-Gas-Ionbond-p/bcm%20ss410%2018-8%20ib%20bk.htm

Do you have any experience with these barrels?

Clint-M
12-20-2011, 17:07
I'm waiting on the 14.5" match barrel to come back in stock from Rainier right now. For their price, sub-MOA guarantee, and 90-day money back I couldn't find a better deal. If I grow too impatient I'll probably look into a WOA instead. Both come in under $300 and are more than capable or out-shooting me.

FWIW, I looked in JP and Noveske but their prices are huge turn-offs when you are really only going to see minimal if any difference.

CM

Singlestack Wonder
12-20-2011, 22:01
Thank you very much. I keep hearing good things about these barrels but I ALWAYS like reports with numbers.



It is not a true LW, but to me it would be a LW or a lighter weight option. Especially if you compare it to a true varmint or national match barrel.
I am really leaning toward a 16 mid also.



Do you have any experience with these barrels?

With the BCM, yes. 18" BCM Mk12 Upper. .5 to .75 moa with 77 grain is the norm.

surf
12-21-2011, 01:01
Well heck you didn't say anything about price in your original post. You just said lightweight SS that would shoot sub MOA and Noveske makes a true lightweight profile SS barrel.

Another option that fits what you are asking for is Wilson Combat who also uses Wilson blanks. WOA, Rainier and Wilson Combat source from Wilson barrels. Wilson Combat has a lightweight profile SS barrel. It is a bit more than the Rainier barrel, but not much.

http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Match-Grade-Barrel-556-NATO-Tactical-Hunter-Lightweight-16-1-8-Twist-Stainless/productinfo/TR-556LW16-18/

HAIL CAESAR
12-21-2011, 06:01
Surf, I saw the WC barrels but they are all 5.56 chambers. I wonder how they shoot.

Al

Singlestack Wonder
12-21-2011, 10:59
For the best accuracy, I recommend the USMC SAM-R or Wylde chamber.

A standard 5.56 chamber allows for reliable feeding while taking a little away from accuracy. For an SPR rifle (if that is truely the purpose), high volumes of fire (i.e. carbine class with 800-1500 rounds in a day) is not what it is meant for. It's designed for extreme accuracy.

Bravo Company's SPR MK12 uppers (and 18" SPR barrels) are proven systems for the SPR role.

Another quality option is the LaRue Stealth Upper (LaRue doesn't sell barrels).
LW50 stainless steel with a Wylde chamber.

Eurodriver
12-21-2011, 11:05
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/2635/imgp0400t.jpg

Have shot out accurately (2 MOA) out to 400 yards and its lighter than any LW profile 16" barreled AR15. It will shot sub MOA out to 200 yards, probably 400 if I had a better optic.

Taking it to 600 yards in a few weeks. I'll be sure to post follow ups.

BBJones
12-21-2011, 12:22
Euro - is that a basic BCM SS upper? What ammo were you using?

Eurodriver
12-21-2011, 12:34
Euro - is that a basic BCM SS upper? What ammo were you using?

It is a BCM 12.5" SS with a DD Omega X 7.0" Handguard

Ammo used was FGMM 77gr

HAIL CAESAR
12-21-2011, 17:02
For the best accuracy, I recommend the USMC SAM-R or Wylde chamber.

A standard 5.56 chamber allows for reliable feeding while taking a little away from accuracy. For an SPR rifle (if that is truely the purpose), high volumes of fire (i.e. carbine class with 800-1500 rounds in a day) is not what it is meant for. It's designed for extreme accuracy.

Bravo Company's SPR MK12 uppers (and 18" SPR barrels) are proven systems for the SPR role.

Another quality option is the LaRue Stealth Upper (LaRue doesn't sell barrels).
LW50 stainless steel with a Wylde chamber.

I understand chambers that is why I would never consider a 5.56 chamber for a true accuracy gun. Accuracy and decent weight are the reasons for this gun as I already have a bunch of 5.56 blasters.

LaRue barrels are nothing more than LW barrels. I can get them anytime and they are also being looked at.

Also the BCM barrels don't interest me at all. I have no need for a 5.56 SAM-R for this gun especially for a 299 price tag. I could get a Wilson barrel with a Wylde chamber for 200 or a bit under and probably get better accuracy.

MarkCO
12-21-2011, 19:15
Here is another option for you: http://www.carbonarms.us/AR-15-Uppers/Nordic-18-AR-barrel.html

We helped spec these barrels with Nordic. 18", Wylde chamber, good balance and exceptional accuracy. The main difference between these and say the similar BCM, JP, and Mk12 barrels is that we used a 0.093" gas port. This results in a rifle that is not so overgassed as the mil-spec gas port everyone else uses. Softer recoil without the need for the adjustable gas block.

HAIL CAESAR
12-21-2011, 19:24
Mark,

Whose blank do they use?

Singlestack Wonder
12-21-2011, 21:05
I understand chambers that is why I would never consider a 5.56 chamber for a true accuracy gun. Accuracy and decent weight are the reasons for this gun as I already have a bunch of 5.56 blasters.

LaRue barrels are nothing more than LW barrels. I can get them anytime and they are also being looked at.

Also the BCM barrels don't interest me at all. I have no need for a 5.56 SAM-R for this gun especially for a 299 price tag. I could get a Wilson barrel with a Wylde chamber for 200 or a bit under and probably get better accuracy.

Good luck in getting the accuracy out of a Wilson barrel that comes close to a BCM with a SAM-R. I must have misunderstood your original post. I thought you wanted an accurate setup, now I see that you are just looking for a lightweight 18" barrel.

Singlestack Wonder out.........

MarkCO
12-21-2011, 21:26
Mark,

Whose blank do they use?

Actually, I am not at liberty to divulge that information. However, they are made on the same tooling as one of the premium barrels that costs a lot more. These are not blanks made in one place and then finished by another company, the barrels and made and finished to our specs, all in the same plant. I've been able to consistently get 3" groups at 500 yards when the wind was not kicking without working up an accuracy load.

HAIL CAESAR
12-21-2011, 21:37
Good luck in getting the accuracy out of a Wilson barrel that comes close to a BCM with a SAM-R. I must have misunderstood your original post. I thought you wanted an accurate setup, now I see that you are just looking for a lightweight 18" barrel.

Singlestack Wonder out.........
More people are setting records and winning trophies shooting a White Oak barrel that is based on a Wilson barrel blank.

A LOT more is known of WO then the BCM 5.56 SAM-R's. I'm sure if they are the bee's knees they will take over the world. But right now that is mostly Kreiger and WO. I have actually never seen a WO that would shoot over .75 in the hands of a good shooter....EVER.
Most reports I hear of BCM is "It is more accurate than I is. I gets 1.5 all day long." That is not very awe inspiring.


Actually, I am not at liberty to divulge that information. However, they are made on the same tooling as one of the premium barrels that costs a lot more. These are not blanks made in one place and then finished by another company, the barrels and made and finished to our specs, all in the same plant. I've been able to consistently get 3" groups at 500 yards when the wind was not kicking without working up an accuracy load.

Very interesting indeed. Thank you very much.

MarkCO
12-21-2011, 21:46
Very interesting indeed. Thank you very much.

You are most welcome. We'll have two more built into uppers and shooting by Monday, one of which we are going to try to get some serious heat cycles on and then toss it into the snow bank. :steamed:

HAIL CAESAR
12-21-2011, 21:48
You are most welcome. We'll have two more built into uppers and shooting by Monday, one of which we are going to try to get some serious heat cycles on and then toss it into the snow bank. :steamed:

:rofl:

Can you shoot some groups first.

MarkCO
12-21-2011, 21:54
:rofl:

Can you shoot some groups first.

Yep. I shoot a 5 round group over the chrono, dump a 60 round mag and shoot another 5 round group over the chrono on the hot barrel.

HAIL CAESAR
12-21-2011, 21:57
That is a bit harder than my usage will be...unless coyotes attack in waves. But I'd like to here the outcome.

surf
12-22-2011, 01:11
Uhh, this thread went from "hey guys I need a lightweight SS barrel in the sub MOA range to shoot coyotes", to where we are splitting hairs in regards to championship types of accuracy? Yowzers and I thought I answered the original question with my first post.

HAIL CAESAR
12-22-2011, 05:55
Surf,

That is my fault. I just get tired of EVERY question being answered with "get a BCM!!!!!! Period.".....no matter what the question was.

Thank you for your help. You really got me thinking of 16 instead of 18.

Eurodriver
12-22-2011, 06:00
Surf,

That is my fault. I just get tired of EVERY question being answered with "get a BCM!!!!!! Period.".....no matter what the question was.

Thank you for your help. You really got me thinking of 16 instead of 18.

Did you not see my post where I am getting sub MOA at 200 yards with a BCM 12.5" and 2 MOA at 400?

How far out are you trying to shoot?

HAIL CAESAR
12-22-2011, 06:03
Did you not see my post where I am getting sub MOA at 200 yards with a BCM 12.5" and 2 MOA at 400?

Ye I did. It's the 8 inch groups at 400 that gets me.

HAIL CAESAR
12-22-2011, 06:18
Oh.....I am sure I will limit myself to 6 hundred.

Eurodriver
12-22-2011, 07:59
Ye I did. It's the 8 inch groups at 400 that gets me.

Well, I don't see that changing even with an 18" barrel given that I am using a 4x ACOG.

My point is that with such a high velocity round like the 5.56, a longer barrel isn't a necessity. If you want to loan me a serious 10x+ S&B optic I would be glad to shrink those numbers for you ;)

MarkCO
12-22-2011, 11:27
Well, I don't see that changing even with an 18" barrel given that I am using a 4x ACOG.

I've been able to consistently get 3" groups at 500 yards when the wind was not kicking without working up an accuracy load.

These groups were using a Burris MTAC 1-4 set at 4x to deliver 0.6 MOA.

HAIL CAESAR
12-26-2011, 21:07
Well, I don't see that changing even with an 18" barrel given that I am using a 4x ACOG.

My point is that with such a high velocity round like the 5.56, a longer barrel isn't a necessity. If you want to loan me a serious 10x+ S&B optic I would be glad to shrink those numbers for you ;)

Point taken..:wavey:

Yep. I shoot a 5 round group over the chrono, dump a 60 round mag and shoot another 5 round group over the chrono on the hot barrel.

Any results yet?

MarkCO
12-26-2011, 21:27
Yes. 100 yards, in a gusting 22 to 30 mph quartering wind and 25F...

1st 5 rounds went into 1.1" about 2" left and 3/4" below prior zero. Ran 60 rounds in 22 seconds, subsequent 5 round group was 0.9" about with a center drift of 0.6" back towards the original zero. Wind had shifted to about 20 degrees off the right.

My AR that prints .6 MOA out to 500 yards was running right about 1.3" in the same conditions. I'll have it out a few more times, but it looks promising. I might try to get into the tube to eliminate environmental.

HAIL CAESAR
12-30-2011, 20:02
Well......I ordered my barrel.

I did alot of thinking and stinking over this and decided my priorities needed a 18 inch barrel with a .223 Wylde chamber.

I ordered this barrel after taking to a fine individual at Rainier. Also my price break sweetened the deal.
http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=2910

Now I have to decide if my Nikon Tactical 2.5x10 Ill MilDot is the best scope for this new gun.

steve1911
12-30-2011, 23:18
Good luck, on your BBL choice let us know how it works out for you, i'm sure it will perform great!.



1911club#410

HAIL CAESAR
12-30-2011, 23:27
I need all the luck I can get these days. Thank you.

HAIL CAESAR
01-06-2012, 18:52
Well I got the barrel in several days ago and all the other parts. I would have a working rifle but I ordered a intermediate gas tube from Noveske.....

Well, it took Noveske over a week to ship an "in stock" item.....AGAIN. I swear Noveske has the WORST shipping in the business. I have had all the pieces for several days but the gas tube won't make it till Thursday of next week.:steamed:

If you really need anything in less than two weeks NEVER order from Noveske as this has happened to me before.

Constructor
01-08-2012, 12:31
I am building a new rifle to tote around the fields and shoot coyotes. I have heavy rifles that shoot very sub-MOA, and I have light rifles that shoot 1.7's or so. I am looking for a 18 (or 16 inch) barrel that us not a "heavy" that will shoot sub MOA.

So far I have narrowed it down to this one.

http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=2902

Any one have experience with Rainier barrels or any other good suggestions?

Thanks for your time,
Al
I didn't read the thread just responding to your post.
In my experience the WA barrels are chambered in an old vertical 4 place chambering fixture built to chamber WWII rifle barrels, the chambers throats are not concentric with the bore, you can verify this with a bore scope. If you can find a Krieger Criterion barrel possibly from BCM I think you will be better off.
Frank White at Compass Lake Eng may be the best in the country to build custom barrels to your spec.

Constructor
01-08-2012, 12:33
Well heck you didn't say anything about price in your original post. You just said lightweight SS that would shoot sub MOA and Noveske makes a true lightweight profile SS barrel.

Another option that fits what you are asking for is Wilson Combat who also uses Wilson blanks. WOA, Rainier and Wilson Combat source from Wilson barrels. Wilson Combat has a lightweight profile SS barrel. It is a bit more than the Rainier barrel, but not much.

http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Match-Grade-Barrel-556-NATO-Tactical-Hunter-Lightweight-16-1-8-Twist-Stainless/productinfo/TR-556LW16-18/

Wilson Combat uses a bunch of ER Shaw barrels too.
Wilson Arms should not be confused with Wilson Combat, not saying you are but some do.