The VV N320 Kool-Aid [Archive] - Glock Talk

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cysoto
12-20-2011, 13:12
...I admit it, I fell for it!!

I've been shooting USPSA for a couple of years and, ever since I began, I have heard people praising the glories of VV N320. Well, about six months ago, I finally decided to spend nearly $200 and purchased 6lbs of it. I expected it to be super-accurate and produce the lightest recoil impulse of any powder available. Man-oh-man, was I disappointed with the results!!

I have no idea why the "kwel-kids" like this powder so much but the bottom line is that, after six pounds of N320 and 10,000 rounds fired, I still don't see any benefit to using it.

Back to the drawing board...

fredj338
12-20-2011, 13:19
Why I NEVER buy more than a # of anything & test it first. I have at least 6 partial bottles of powder I don't like or down right hate including Clays, TG, Universal, AA#5, BlueDot, RL7, a couple more I can't remember. Consider I load for I think 22 diff calibers, I test quite a few powders before buying anything in bulk. I like the VV powders in certain rifle rounds, but don't like the price or lack of availability in most areas. They are good powders but really don;t do much better if at all than many others.

cysoto
12-20-2011, 13:25
Why I NEVER buy more than a # of anything & test it first.

I thought I was being smart because this powder is ubber-difficult to find and, like I mentioned before, for years I have been hearing the Kool-Aid drinking folks singing its praises.

Lesson learned!! :thumbsup:

EL_NinO619
12-20-2011, 13:37
VV is Vihtavuori right.. Because I really want to try this but cant find it local and don't want to pay hazmat on a pound, it will end up being a $60 pound....:shame:

VIHTAVUORI N140 1LB POWDER (RIFLE) 12/CS

cysoto
12-20-2011, 13:53
VV is Vihtavuori right..

Yeap, that's the one!

For pistol powders I can find N310 & N340 locally very easily but the N320 spot on the shelve has been sitting empty for years. That's until about six months ago when I first saw any N320 on the shelve and decided that I had to try it out.

ron59
12-20-2011, 14:37
I tried it. I liked it but didn't think it was any better than WSF. For the extra cost? Nah....

D. Manley
12-20-2011, 14:37
Yeap, that's the one!

For pistol powders I can find N310 & N340 locally very easily but the N320 spot on the shelve has been sitting empty for years. That's until about six months ago when I first saw any N320 on the shelve and decided that I had to try it out.

All the VV powders are easy to find compared to N-330. Developed expressly for the 9MM, you'll be hard pressed to find anything that provides better accuracy albeit, not as soft as the quicker powders. FWIW, groups extraordinarily well with every bullet weight I've seen. N-320 can be down-loaded to shoot pretty soft in a 9MM but has never been as accurate. N-340 is pretty good all around too but seems to have a little tighter load window for best accuracy. If I could only have one powder for 9MM, it's N-330, hands down.

cysoto
12-20-2011, 14:43
If I could only have one powder for 9MM, it's N-330, hands down.

You see, now you are making me curious!! :shocked:

Ha, ha... Nah, I think I'll stick to Titegroup or WSF for now. :supergrin:

ron59
12-20-2011, 15:13
You see, now you are making me curious!! :shocked:

Ha, ha... Nah, I think I'll stick to Titegroup or WSF for now. :supergrin:

I'll take both of those over any more VV stuff....

WSF is great, and TG is working for me right now. Just fine and much cheaper.

PhantomF4E
12-20-2011, 15:55
What were you putting over the powder and how much ? I have had great results with N320. Still ove my Unique but N320 is clean stuff

Colorado4Wheel
12-20-2011, 16:34
I wonder if 310 would have been better? How fast is 320 compared to the evil TG and WST?

noylj
12-20-2011, 17:16
N310 is a VERY fast powder. It is good for light target loads in .45ACP and .38 Special. It has the same spikey pressure curve as Clays.

cysoto
12-20-2011, 17:20
What were you putting over the powder and how much ? I have had great results with N320. Still ove my Unique but N320 is clean stuff

It took me a while to figure out a load but I settled on 4.0gr of VV N320 over 124gr FMJ (I tried both Zero & Montana Gold) loaded at an OAL of 1.130" and crimped to 0.377".

cysoto
12-20-2011, 17:23
I wonder if 310 would have been better? How fast is 320 compared to the evil TG and WST?

According to this powder burn rate ( http://www.reloadbench.com/burn.html ) N310 is REALLY fast burning. I haven't heard of many folks using it for Minor 9mm loads and I didn't want to chance it.

Colorado4Wheel
12-20-2011, 17:32
You tried Solo already didn't you>

D. Manley
12-20-2011, 18:08
I wonder if 310 would have been better? How fast is 320 compared to the evil TG and WST?

Very popular in Bullseye competition. I use N-310 some in .45 and believe it or not, in one non-published .40 load. It is very, very, fast and ssems to have higher energy content than S-1000. I don't *think* it would fly well in 9MM but I've not tried it there. It's clean burning even in light loads but anyone that does use it certainly needs to respect it and don't even think about pushing the envelope.

PhantomF4E
12-20-2011, 18:14
I have used n320 on 115 cmj and 124 hp MG's very respectable. I even got some pretty good performance out of some 147g GDHP's . Could I live without it ? Sure . But it is a darn good powder in my book.

CCV
12-20-2011, 18:39
In 9mm I haven't found anything I like better than Power Pistol.

WiskyT
12-20-2011, 19:26
It's european so it has to be better. They are smarter than us after all:upeyes:

GioaJack
12-20-2011, 19:31
Wisky, do you really think we have to go all the way to Europe to find someone smarter than... nope, nope, nope, I have to remember, it's the Christmas season... I'm going to be a good boy.

(I can't wait until the new year rolls around. :whistling:)


Jack

cysoto
12-20-2011, 20:07
You tried Solo already didn't you>

Yes! It worked amazingly well with 147gr bullets but I have recently switched to 124gr bullets (both because they are less expensive as well as they move the slide a little bit quicker). Sadly, Solo 1000 and 124gr is not a superbly accurate combination.

D. Manley
12-20-2011, 20:25
It's european so it has to be better. They are smarter than us after all:upeyes:

In this case, there's actually some truth to that. While most domestic brands have, with a few exceptions, switched over to dual base powders and continued to diversify, Vihtavuori has historically taken the opposite approach continuing to refine their powders and even use nitro-cellulose produced from cotton linters in their own plant. Vihtavuori powders are pretty well dominant in most competitive shooting disciplines and are utilized in everything from .22 rimfire to cannon fodder. An assest for the reloader is they don't have the ball vs. flake vs. stick type debacle. They are very similar and smoothly flow through the measure for nice, consistent charges, burn cleanly and are very linear.

Yes! It worked amazingly well with 147gr bullets but I have recently switched to 124gr bullets (both because they are less expensive as well as they move the slide a little bit quicker). Sadly, Solo 1000 and 124gr is not a superbly accurate combination.

This mimics my results as well. I've not been able to get accurate results in any bullets lighter than 147 grain with S-1000.

GhettoSmack
12-21-2011, 07:55
I have tried N310 in .45ACP and loved it! Most accurate metering powder I have used (compared to Power Pistol, TG, Clay, 231, WSF). Also lighter recoil and less burnt powder char all over me.

About to try N320 for 9mm 124gr plated. Expect good things, but I will see based on your experiences.

I am an action competition shooter (IDPA, USPSA, Steel Challenge) and don't care about the utmost accuracy in my loads. (Powder and charge shoots 2.5" vs. another at 3".) Volume and consistency is my mantra! (OK, OCD gets the best of me ... most of the time.)

Hoser
12-21-2011, 09:23
I like N320 in 40, but for 9x19 I will stick with TG.

N310 in 45 is awesome.

noylj
12-21-2011, 10:41
Solo 1000 is the only single-base pistol powder I know of.
Some one will mention all the ones I can't remember.

DanaT
12-21-2011, 11:09
Wisky, do you really think we have to go all the way to Europe to find someone smarter than... nope, nope, nope, I have to remember, it's the Christmas season... I'm going to be a good boy.

(I can't wait until the new year rolls around. :whistling:)


Jack

I just wonder, what does it mean when a European company has to hire an American to design their product and manufacturing?

-Dana

DanaT
12-21-2011, 11:11
All the VV powders are easy to find compared to N-330. Developed expressly for the 9MM, you'll be hard pressed to find anything that provides better accuracy albeit, not as soft as the quicker powders. FWIW, groups extraordinarily well with every bullet weight I've seen. N-320 can be down-loaded to shoot pretty soft in a 9MM but has never been as accurate. N-340 is pretty good all around too but seems to have a little tighter load window for best accuracy. If I could only have one powder for 9MM, it's N-330, hands down.

The N330 sounds interesting. However, what am I gaining vs AA#7 which was also a powder designed for 9mm.

Maybe I will have to try and find some N330

-Dana

unclebob
12-21-2011, 11:23
I have shoot 16+ lbs. with VV N320 powder. Using 147 X-treme bullets. When I went with the 135gr. X-treme bullets I switched back to Titegroup. Never have been able to get the 124gr bullets to work as well as the 135 and 147gr bullets.

D. Manley
12-21-2011, 15:06
The N330 sounds interesting. However, what am I gaining vs AA#7 which was also a powder designed for 9mm.

Maybe I will have to try and find some N330

-Dana

A bit odd but of all the powders I've tinkered with, AA#7 has managed to escape. I do know it's very good for 9MM though but I couldn't say anything about the comparison.

IIRC, it was David Sams that was at one time (and may still be?) building some unbelievably accurate 9MM guns for 50 yard competition shooting. His load was:

Hornady 115 grain XTP Bullet
VihtaVuori 4.8 grains N-330
OAL 1.085"
WSP Primer
Crimp ~ .379"

I've found this to be a very accurate combination and in fact, top-notch with any 115 grain pill. For the brass jacketed Montana Gold, I'll bump the charge to 5.0 grains. For a nice, accurate and pretty soft 147 grain load, start around 3.7 grains and go from there.

Hoser
12-21-2011, 16:26
IIRC, it was David Sams that was at one time (and may still be?) building some unbelievably accurate 9MM guns for 50 yard competition shooting. His load was:

Hornady 115 grain XTP Bullet
VihtaVuori 4.8 grains N-330
OAL 1.085"
WSP Primer
Crimp ~ .379"

Dave is still building guns. In fact, he has my PPC pistol right now.

D. Manley
12-21-2011, 18:45
Dave is still building guns. In fact, he has my PPC pistol right now.

Everything I've ever seen on him says he's good as it gets. If you get a chance, ask him about the groups from some of his custom pistols @ 50 yards. I hesitate to post the group sizes, they really are incredible and beyond my or my guns abilities on the best day ever. It's been a long time but IIRC, reading about some of his load test were the reason I came to use N-330 for my 9MM loadings.

WiskyT
12-21-2011, 18:48
solo 1000 is the only single-base pistol powder i know of.
Some one will mention all the ones i can't remember.

sr4756

DanaT
12-21-2011, 19:18
Everything I've ever seen on him says he's good as it gets. If you get a chance, ask him about the groups from some of his custom pistols @ 50 yards. I hesitate to post the group sizes, they really are incredible and beyond my or my guns abilities on the best day ever. It's been a long time but IIRC, reading about some of his load test were the reason I came to use N-330 for my 9MM loadings.

I would assume that these groups are with scopes and/or shooting rests? There is only so much precision that can be had with notch and post sights. I have a TC Contender in 10mm /14 inch and if I can do my part, at 25 yards (with notch and post sights) they will go in one ragged hole for 5 round group. But it mostly comes down to how well I can line up the sights. Even at 25 yards, there is some error lining up sights.

-Dana

freakshow10mm
12-21-2011, 23:56
I only use N320 for subsonic 9mm because the powder is quieter than others. The cost is a mere $3 per thousand rounds. Not enough to make me whine about the cost.

MoNsTeR
12-22-2011, 11:38
According to this powder burn rate ( http://www.reloadbench.com/burn.html ) N310 is REALLY fast burning. I haven't heard of many folks using it for Minor 9mm loads and I didn't want to chance it.

Y'know all that time I spent shooting Production? Every round was loaded with N310! I'll never use anything else if I can help it.

kilroy2721
12-22-2011, 11:46
Well I am glad to hear you are going to stop using it. That means it will be a little easier for the rest of us to grab...when we can find it that is.

Colorado4Wheel
12-22-2011, 20:13
Y'know all that time I spent shooting Production? Every round was loaded with N310! I'll never use anything else if I can help it.

That is what I thought as well.

GioaJack
12-22-2011, 20:16
I don't use any VV powder cause I can't spell it.


Jack

PhantomF4E
12-23-2011, 15:24
I don't use any VV powder cause I can't spell it.


Jack
You spelled it just fine for the folks here Jack :rofl:

Gad's he's rubbin' off on me folks. Must be that Miami Nice thing is wearing off lol..