Amish Teen On Buggy, Killed By Muzzle-loader Fired 1.5 Miles Away! (???) [Archive] - Glock Talk

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ULVER
12-20-2011, 23:10
After 40 years in law enforcement & ballistics, I truly find this hard to believe.
:dunno:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2011-12-20/amish-girl-accidentally-shot/52131964/1

Jim Watson
12-20-2011, 23:55
To repeat what I said on the other thread, a lot of these inline muzzle loaders differ from a centerfire rifle only in that they are loaded from the front, not the back. The .45-70 was found lethal to two miles at Sandy Hook in 1879. A mile and a half accident from negligent handling is plausible.

Tiro Fijo
12-21-2011, 00:28
10 or 15 years ago there was a woman driving her car in FL close to the shore who was mysteriously shot in the head. A day or so later a fisherman came forward and admitted that he was shooting at an angle at a shark several miles out to sea. He was using a .303 SMLE if I recall. One in a trillion shot. :faint:

firefighter4215
12-21-2011, 06:01
It does seem highly unlikely. However, I'm in awe at the stupidity involved with shooting any gun into the air to test or unload it. I always shot my muzzleloader into the hillside in a very safe place if I needed to unload it for some reason.

dkf
12-21-2011, 08:46
A fellow in another forum had his trucks roof hit by a .45 bullet while the truck was sitting in his driveway. No shots heard. Put a very nice dent in the roof.

Wil Terry
12-21-2011, 09:16
10 or 15 years ago there was a woman driving her car in FL close to the shore who was mysteriously shot in the head. A day or so later a fisherman came forward and admitted that he was shooting at an angle at a shark several miles out to sea. He was using a .303 SMLE if I recall. One in a trillion shot. :faint:

I DO remember this though it was 20 or 25 years ago. When I read that the bullet recovered from the victim was .318" O.D. I immediately wrote to the authorities noting it did NOT come from any standard .303BRIT rifle or carbine. Furtheremore it could be proven without a shadow of a doubt, that cartridge and the 303BRIT rifle could NOT shoot the several miles distance involved.

Jeremy_K
12-21-2011, 12:57
We just had an incident here in a rural area where a hunter fired a rifle at a deer and missed. The bullet went 500 yards and hit a moving school bus ("packed with kids" as the news says). The bullet went in near the top of the door and lodged in the metal right behind the driver's head. They said it was a .30 cal. bullet. After a few days of the story on the news the guy who fired the shot turned himself in.
As for the muzzleloader, that must be one hell of a light bullet and one heavy charge. I have mine sighted in for 100 yards. At 200 yards it drops 16 1/4":shocked:. That's firing 100 grains of powder, 250 grain .50 cal. hollowpoint at 1800 FPS. Firing it into the air is just plain stupid. If you can't unload it by removing the breech plug then fire it into a safe backstop.

dkf
12-21-2011, 13:22
Or just get the jag out, pull the bullet and fire the powder charge. Some people are just stupid and lazy and that is dangerous combo.

fredj338
12-21-2011, 13:51
There are several reported cases of people being killed by 22lr shots fired more than a mile away. Waaaay less mass there. Anything can happen when yo uget stupid w/ a firearm.

johnniet
12-21-2011, 14:14
What a sad story and totally avoidable. Stupid and firearms shouldn't mix.

Wolfgang
12-21-2011, 18:09
This thread is starting out just like the other one

Iceman cHucK
12-22-2011, 16:03
Or just get the jag out, pull the bullet and fire the powder charge. Some people are just stupid and lazy and that is dangerous combo.

Sorry dkf but you should NEVER unload a muzzleloader this way, it could get you killed! Never jag out a bullet on a loaded charge! If you can't shoot it into a berm or other safe place, then you must "deactivate " the powder charge by soaking it before jagging out the bullet.

dkf
12-22-2011, 17:19
Make sure you put your head right above the ramrod when pulling the bullet too.:upeyes:

noway
12-26-2011, 00:52
Sorry dkf but you should NEVER unload a muzzleloader this way, it could get you killed! Never jag out a bullet on a loaded charge! If you can't shoot it into a berm or other safe place, then you must "deactivate " the powder charge by soaking it before jagging out the bullet.

So how can purely jagging a bullet off a powder charge, can get you killed? If you don't have a ignition source ( #11, musket cap, shotgun primer ) than I find your claim to absurd.

This is why they make jags, for safely removing a bullet when one can't fire it off safely.

dkf
12-26-2011, 11:45
Guess what you do when you load a bullet into a muzzle loader? You take the ram rod and seat the bullet firmly against the powder charge to compress it. Some guys hit the rod against the bullet several times with some force behind it.

I suppose static electricity can ignite the powder charge however that is not common.

WiskyT
12-26-2011, 14:24
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuUuGTW3YRE

5:20 lol

Ike Arumba
12-27-2011, 16:50
Hunter education materials have illustrative graphics indicating how far a number of different loads can carry if fired up and out. See, for example, http://www2.huntercourse.com/california/study?chapter=3&page=8

Tiro Fijo
12-27-2011, 17:21
...I suppose static electricity can ignite the powder charge however that is not common.


No it can't. Want proof?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5Z5yAeO3dw

WiskyT
12-27-2011, 17:45
According to this, a 44 mag will just make it that far and will only be going 350fps. That could be fatal. BUT, this scenario is really stratching things. A 44mag listed with a 240fp bullet at 1760fps is probably a pretty good representation of a modern saboted ML round. Maybe it's not and the ML guys can comment to this.

My point is that this story COULD have played out like the news story says, but it would take the most amazing set of circumstances to happen. The circumstances regarding the shooter who came in to the police should be investigated, but so should the possibility of a different shooter who didn't come in.

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2002/DomnaAntoniadis.shtml

dkf
12-27-2011, 20:24
No it can't. Want proof?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5Z5yAeO3dw

That was not a compressed charge. Under ideal conditions maybe SE can set it off, honestly I don't really care. You probably have a better chance of a mouse setting it off. (see post#16 ) I do know there are some difference between powder measures for black powder and smokeless powder.