cost analysis [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : cost analysis


TKOFaith
12-22-2011, 12:52
I'm just curious... I pay about .20-.25 per round for factory 9mm range rounds. I'd like to know what I could expect to spend per round if I reload spent brass, and for home loads with new brass.

Thanks! :wavey:

fredj338
12-22-2011, 13:37
Do a search, it's been beaten to death. Reloading your own brass, cost is at least 1/2 of cheap factory. If you buy new brass, there is not much cost savings making your own. You are better off buying factory new SD/HD ammo in bulk vs loading new brass IMO. Plus, except for the SpeerGDHP & RemGS, the better bullets are only available in factory loaded ammo:
Starline brass = 12c
primer = 2.5c
Speer GDHP = 20c
total 35c each about $18/bx
A box of 50 factory can be had for about $25.

TKOFaith
12-22-2011, 13:40
Thanks for the input. I assumed it had been discussed, but I couldn't even think how to word a search for it.

F106 Fan
12-22-2011, 15:34
I don't think reloading is about making SD rounds. It is about making practice rounds, either jacketed (expensive) or lead (cheaper) and doing it for far less than the cost for similar ammo at Wally World.

But before you can even discuss costs for reloading, you need to determine how much ammo you will shoot per week/month/year. If it's a few hundred rounds per year, don't bother. If it's a few hundred rounds per month then you can get in at the entry level and save some money. If it's a few hundred rounds per week, you can afford top of the line equipment.

Just take 1/2 the store cost as the savings and work out your own payback analysis for equipment purchase.

Or, go over to http://www.brianenos.com/pages/dillon.html and see what Brian Enos has to say about the various presses, costs and what he considers the appropriate reloading quantity per year.

.45 ACP 230 gr Lead Round Nose, 4.8 gr 700-X

Primer - $0.035
Bullet - $0.08
Powder - $0.017
Brass - $0.02 - Cost is $200/1000 and can be reloaded 10 times

Total $ 0.152 or $7.60 per box.

I don't usually include the cost and depreciation of brass. I can get all I need off the ground at the range. Nevertheless, I have bought several thousand pieces of once-fired and a couple of thousand new Starline.

Ignoring the brass brings is down to $0.132 or about $6.60/box of 50

Sure, that's for a lead bullet but that's primarily what I use. I have been using full metal jacket for the Glock but that won't last forever. The Sig and Colts get lead.

Richard

twag4
12-22-2011, 15:55
I'm doing it even cheaper than that. About 5.48 per 50 buying all elements in bulk for 9mm.

jmorris
12-22-2011, 15:59
My best "cheap" ammo was back when BA 10 powder was $4 a pound but 1000 rounds with my cast bullets and range brass cost $18 or almost $.02 each.

That being said, I couldn't buy a stick of gum with the pile of money I have saved from reloading. I do shoot a lot more that I would have otherwise.

F106 Fan
12-22-2011, 16:21
That being said, I couldn't buy a stick of gum with the pile of money I have saved from reloading. I do shoot a lot more that I would have otherwise.

That has been my experience as well. I load into a .50 cal ammo can. Two or 3 of us shoot out of the can until it's empty. Then I fill it up again (about 1000 rounds of .45 ACP).

At the range, none of us count rounds or shoot out of boxes. It's like the ammo is free or something. Shoot all day and worry about the costs later.

Richard

BLK RIFLE
12-22-2011, 16:27
I have been reloading since 1960. One of the best sites I have found is www.ultimatereloader.com (http://www.ultimatereloader.com). It has a cost calculator on the site and lots of other reloading info.

TX Archer
12-22-2011, 16:32
Do a little online (or local) window shopping then try this nifty tool to see for yourself:

http://www.handloads.com/calc/loadingCosts.asp

I'm pretty new at this and haven't gotten into heavy bulk buying but by watching for sales and buying moderate amounts when I find good prices, I'm currently paying $0.143 each or $7.13/50 for 124 gr. FMJ range ammo.

F106 Fan
12-22-2011, 16:47
I'm doing it even cheaper than that. About 5.48 per 50 buying all elements in bulk for 9mm.

Right, 9mm bullets are cheaper (and 1/2 the weight) of .45 ACP.

Something on the order of $0.10/round of $5.00 per box is about right.

Richard

thorn137
12-22-2011, 17:21
Speaking generally, I reload plated 9mm for half the cost of WWB 9mm. The cost would be lower if I bought components in bulk, but for me it isn't worth the hassle.

thorn

Zombie Steve
12-22-2011, 18:02
I'm loading .45 auto for 5-6 cents a round, but I'm getting / casting free lead and free brass. That is, of course for my range fodder (even though I wouldn't feel bad about carrying it). Even when I have to buy brass for my .45 Colt or .44 mag, it's still under half of factory if you divide the cost of brass by even 5 loadings.

...and I've got to disagree with you about the nature of reloading, F106 Fan. I've worked up SD loads in every cartridge I shoot. Carrying them is another debate for another thread, but it sure is nice to have them dialed in and a load of them on the shelves just in case. Also, hunting ammo is just stupid expensive if you don't reload, so I do that too... easily half price of even the Super-X loads, and much more savings when compared to the premium hunting ammo from the major manufacturers. I've yet to encounter a paper target, a pepper popper, a coyote or a deer that can tell the difference.

F106 Fan
12-22-2011, 18:36
...and I've got to disagree with you about the nature of reloading, F106 Fan. I've worked up SD loads in every cartridge I shoot. Carrying them is another debate for another thread, but it sure is nice to have them dialed in and a load of them on the shelves just in case.

Reasonable people can disagree...

I use Remington Golden Saber for my .45s (Glock & SIG) and Hornady Critical Defense for the 9mm's. I have some left over Black Talon in my Colt Lightweight Commander and ammo for the Sig P229 (.40 S&W) is 180 gr Federal JHP.

I'm not concerned about POA/POI inside a house. How far off can it be?

All that said, my 230 gr FMJ is clearly capable (and I have a couple of thousand rounds loaded) and I wouldn't really hesitate to use my 230 gr LRN or even the 200 gr LSWC. These rounds are deadly accurate and are bound to hurt. Several of them, taken together, ought to do a whole lot of damage.

For me, loading for SD is off the table. I would hate to have to describe in court how I decided on such a devastating load as 4.8 gr 700-X versus "I just bought what they had on the shelf". In California, you just never know...

Richard

RustyFN
12-22-2011, 19:39
I'm just curious... I pay about .20-.25 per round for factory 9mm range rounds. I'd like to know what I could expect to spend per round if I reload spent brass, and for home loads with new brass.

Thanks! :wavey:

I buy in bulk and have components from two years ago but you can still get close. I reload 9mm for .07 per round. I cast my own bullets for 45 and can load those for .025 per round. A couple of more moulds and I will be reloading for all of my pistols for $25 per 1,000 rounds.

blastfact
12-22-2011, 19:59
This is how I look at my reloading and 9mm is a perfect round to use as a example,,, for me anyway. All price's retail off the local market.

I can go to LGS and pay 18.99 to 21.99 for 20 rounds of Hornady HD/SD XTP ammo per box plus tax.

I can go to the same LGS and pay 17.00 to 21.00 for 124/147gn XTP's. Add my powder and primers using pick up brass or once shot retail brass. Load them up to my spec's and tuned to my guns and I walk away with 100 rounds basically a buck or two more than the factory stuff.

So it comes down to. I can load 100 rounds of tuned ammo for at the most,,, the very most 27.00 including tax. Of the shelf 20 round box's cost me 108.00 or so OTD. To some this is not much of a savings. But for me it allows me to tune my loads. Shoot the bullet of my choice. Yes I like XTP's in all calibers. And I can afford to shoot what I carry and use for HD. Thats a win ,,,, win for me big time.

Yeah you can buy lead or other bullets or cast your own or even jacket/swage your own and make some great bullets if you want and cut the cost even more. Heck right now I have 1k lead 158gn LWC and 1k 158gn LSWC I can load up for the wife to practice with. And she does practice with them. She is a new shooter with a Smith 60 Pro. But she also shoots .38+p's every range trip and a hand full of full house .357 mag's. As time pass's she is slowly weening off the lead. And working more and more with her chosen HD load.

It's all up to you what you do with your reloading profile. :)

Zombie Steve
12-23-2011, 00:01
Reasonable people can disagree...

I use Remington Golden Saber for my .45s (Glock & SIG) and Hornady Critical Defense for the 9mm's. I have some left over Black Talon in my Colt Lightweight Commander and ammo for the Sig P229 (.40 S&W) is 180 gr Federal JHP.

I'm not concerned about POA/POI inside a house. How far off can it be?

All that said, my 230 gr FMJ is clearly capable (and I have a couple of thousand rounds loaded) and I wouldn't really hesitate to use my 230 gr LRN or even the 200 gr LSWC. These rounds are deadly accurate and are bound to hurt. Several of them, taken together, ought to do a whole lot of damage.

For me, loading for SD is off the table. I would hate to have to describe in court how I decided on such a devastating load as 4.8 gr 700-X versus "I just bought what they had on the shelf". In California, you just never know...

Richard

Unreasonable people can disagree too. What is it you have against us? :whistling::supergrin:

GhettoSmack
12-23-2011, 09:56
There is no doubt big (~50%) savings from bulk loading. The less paid for each component the better -- can't get cheaper than free brass from the range ground.

Nobody has mentioned the cost of entry: the reloading equipment. The equipment cost depends on the purpose and amount. Some presses are geared for bulk, single caliber loading. Others are great for bulk multi-caliber loading. Even others are for consistency and accuracy in small batches. Of course, the cost of the equipment can be spread out over the amount of ammo reloaded. I think someone said it took take a year to recoup the equipment costs??

Equipment: ~$600 (mid-range press, dies, tumbler, etc.)
Total cost/reloaded round 9mm: ~$6.50/50 (using range brass)
Savings over store ammo: $5.50 (crappy steel/aluminum rounds excluded)
Reload 6000rnds/year (500/mth) = 120-50rnd boxes ... X 5.50 = $660 saved.

Reloading just for hunting doesn't make much sense to me, cost-wise. 100rnds of hunting ammo shot per year? I'd rather spend the $20/20rnds than reload. If that's your thing, then knock yourself out.

twag4
12-23-2011, 10:57
Right, 9mm bullets are cheaper (and 1/2 the weight) of .45 ACP.

Something on the order of $0.10/round of $5.00 per box is about right.

Richard

Yes, but the OP asked about 9mm. Not sure why topic transitioned to 45, I just wanted to give that info. My local wal mart sells federal cheapo for 11.49 per 50 and Tula steel cased for 10.49. I am in for less than half using all the brass I have saved for a couple of years before that. Around 15000 between 9mm and .40. I am still single stage press equipped, but really starting to like the sound of the 650.

F106 Fan
12-23-2011, 10:58
There is a tendency to want to pay the absolute least possible for reloading equipment. The result is usually one of the low end single stage presses or something slightly better.

The problem is that reloading a few hundred rounds per month on a single stage press becomes more of a chore than it is worth. Especially in the early stages where powder is measured on a scale for each round.

In my view, new reloaders need to take a longer view while being realistic about their round count. How many calibers? How many rounds per year of each caliber? Type of ammo to be reloaded (target/SD, lead/FMJ, bulk pistol versus precision rifle, etc)?

There is always utility in having a decent single stage press around, particularly for precision rifle. But if pistol shooting in any volume is one of the goals, the single stage press is not the way to go. The longer view might be a Dillon Square Deal (single caliber pistol) or something larger like a 550B or even XL650.

Richard

GioaJack
12-23-2011, 11:04
All this talk of savings, or potential savings through ammunition reloading totally misses the true crux of the problem. It is not how to react to a threatening situation but rather how you avoid that situation to begin with.

There is a plethora of empirical evidence that personal, physical attacks are stimulated by the quasi-machismo attitude demonstrated by the typical ill-informed flatlander. Obviously this is a sad state of affairs and can most probably be attributed to Darwinism and God's attempt to cull the heard... both ineffective methods of achieving world harmony.

May I suggest that in your never ending quest to save money on reloading you abandon this unattainable goal and embrace the true path to happiness and non-violence.

Transform yourselves to a mirror image of myself; a wholly perfect entity of peace, compassion, tolerance, understanding and empathy. Embrace the concept of universal love, strive to brighten and enhance the lives of all you meet rather than having a plan to kill them.

Sell your loading equipment and all of your evil guns, commit your stores of lead back to Mother Earth from whence it came and celebrate the bounties she offers.

Donate the proceeds from the sale of your evil implements to a worthy cause such as those who comprise the Occupy Wall Street movement. It is immoral how these poor underprivileged people are treated simply because they prefer not having to work to provide for their basic needs and would rather spend their days engaging in unprotected sex and smoking herbs that flourish in nature.

It is obvious that flatlanders, all of you, are responsible for their torment and unfair treatment.

So, as you can now see, OP, abandon your quest of lower cost ammunition for these various calibers of the Devil's spawn are not needed. Transform yourself into a clone of myself, past would be aggressors will greet you with a smile handshake and a warm smile, whilst hunting to provide nourishment for your family and loved ones animals will surrender themselves and wait until they are standing next to your vehicle before committing suicide and hordes of gorgeous women with low moral values will throw themselves at your feet. (Keep some of the proceeds from the sale of those evil guns to purchase copious amounts of Viagra.)

This is the path to true happiness... so it has been stated, so it shall be recorded.

(Just in case the above suggested life's guidelines don't quite work out for you learn to disrobe quickly... you can run faster naked.)


Jack

F106 Fan
12-23-2011, 11:07
Yes, but the OP asked about 9mm. Not sure why topic transitioned to 45, I just wanted to give that info.

When I put out the numbers for .45 ACP it was simply because I knew them off the top of my head. My bad... But the only real difference is in the cost of the bullet. Bullet weight and bullet type (lead/plated/FMJ/HP, etc) are the primary cost factors. Primer and powder costs are identical (increased powder cost for .45 ACP is lost in the noise compared to bullet cost)

But I do load 9mm so I could have provided the same numbers you gave. However, by edict, I can't load 9mm LRN for my grandson any longer. The cost will increase but I have been given 'guidance' to use either plated or FMJ bullets.

My savings for 9mm won't be as great as it was but it is still worth the time and effort to do the work. Besides, I already have all the equipment.

Richard

F106 Fan
12-23-2011, 11:15
Embrace the concept of universal love, strive to brighten and enhance the lives of all you meet rather than having a plan to kill them.



I think I'll keep working on the plans, back burner of course, just in case the universal love thing doesn't work out. It's always good to have a plan!

Richard

shotgunred
12-25-2011, 13:09
If you count the cost of all the toys I bought to reload with then I figure I am right at $2.00 a round for 9mm.

If you just count materials I am into for around 10 cents a round. Unless I shoot my cast bullets in which case it is even cheaper.

TKOFaith
12-27-2011, 11:35
All this talk of savings, or potential savings through ammunition reloading totally misses the true crux of the problem. It is not how to react to a threatening situation but rather how you avoid that situation to begin with.

There is a plethora of empirical evidence that personal, physical attacks are stimulated by the quasi-machismo attitude demonstrated by the typical ill-informed flatlander. Obviously this is a sad state of affairs and can most probably be attributed to Darwinism and God's attempt to cull the heard... both ineffective methods of achieving world harmony.

May I suggest that in your never ending quest to save money on reloading you abandon this unattainable goal and embrace the true path to happiness and non-violence.

Transform yourselves to a mirror image of myself; a wholly perfect entity of peace, compassion, tolerance, understanding and empathy. Embrace the concept of universal love, strive to brighten and enhance the lives of all you meet rather than having a plan to kill them.

Sell your loading equipment and all of your evil guns, commit your stores of lead back to Mother Earth from whence it came and celebrate the bounties she offers.

Donate the proceeds from the sale of your evil implements to a worthy cause such as those who comprise the Occupy Wall Street movement. It is immoral how these poor underprivileged people are treated simply because they prefer not having to work to provide for their basic needs and would rather spend their days engaging in unprotected sex and smoking herbs that flourish in nature.

It is obvious that flatlanders, all of you, are responsible for their torment and unfair treatment.

So, as you can now see, OP, abandon your quest of lower cost ammunition for these various calibers of the Devil's spawn are not needed. Transform yourself into a clone of myself, past would be aggressors will greet you with a smile handshake and a warm smile, whilst hunting to provide nourishment for your family and loved ones animals will surrender themselves and wait until they are standing next to your vehicle before committing suicide and hordes of gorgeous women with low moral values will throw themselves at your feet. (Keep some of the proceeds from the sale of those evil guns to purchase copious amounts of Viagra.)

This is the path to true happiness... so it has been stated, so it shall be recorded.

(Just in case the above suggested life's guidelines don't quite work out for you learn to disrobe quickly... you can run faster naked.)


Jack

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

TKOFaith
12-27-2011, 11:37
Thanks, All! The numbers look pretty good to me. I still haven't decided on reloading or getting another rifle.... What's a guy to do? :dunno: Maybe both! :embarassed:

fredj338
12-27-2011, 16:56
Thanks, All! The numbers look pretty good to me. I still haven't decided on reloading or getting another rifle.... What's a guy to do? :dunno: Maybe both! :embarassed:

The sooner you start reloading, the sooner you'll have more money for another gun.:dunno: