Hornady VS. Hodgdon manuals [Archive] - Glock Talk

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MichiGun Hunter
12-23-2011, 20:32
If this has been discussed at an earlier time i apologize for i did look through the forums with no luck on the subject.

I sat down here a little while ago to work up a new hunting load for my G20 10mm. All work is going to be done with Longshot powder, 180gr XTPs, new brass, and WLP.

The Hornady 8th edition list an OAL of 1.26 and starts with 6.4gr of powder with a max of 8.2 gr of powder.....

Now Hodgdon lists with the same OAL of 1.26 a starting load of 8.5gr of powder with 9.5gr max load....


Im confused here... Seeing how Hodgdon's starting load is over the Hornady's max load.... Why such a difference between two of the largest known companies in the business?

WiskyT
12-23-2011, 20:59
I'd get a chrongraph and work my way up to the velocity you want (within reason). Let's say you want 1150fps. Start with say 7.0 and see how it does. Keep going up until you either get your 1150 or you find that it aint gonna happen. Let's say you hit 1150 at 8.7, you can call it good and still be well below the max in at least one source.

Very often I find I can get the velocity I want at less than the max in older manuals. I then call it good and ignore the meowed down data of the last decade.

fredj338
12-23-2011, 22:15
All manuals/data sources vary. Look at their test platforms. I don;t even know what Hogdon uses, but some, like Hornady, use actual guns, imagine that. Some, like Lyman, use a universal receiver. DIff brass, primers, platforms, you are going to get diff pressure readings. It's why I advocate using at least 3 vetted data sources, average the starting @ max & load the average & work up.

blastfact
12-24-2011, 11:11
What fredj338 said. ^^^^^^

hogfish
12-24-2011, 13:16
The Sierra 5th Edition has their 300 gr JSP (.45 Colt) going out of a 7.5" Blackhawk at 1,100 f/s with 20.5 gr of H110, and the same bullet needs 22.4 gr of H110 to reach the same speed out of a 10" Contender. It may not make sense until you realise that different components/firearms have major effects on ballistics.

ColoCG
12-24-2011, 16:13
All manuals/data sources vary. Look at their test platforms. I don;t even know what Hogdon uses, but some, like Hornady, use actual guns, imagine that. Some, like Lyman, use a universal receiver. DIff brass, primers, platforms, you are going to get diff pressure readings. It's why I advocate using at least 3 vetted data sources, average the starting @ max & load the average & work up.


What Fred said above plus your talking about 2 different bullets.

The Hornady manual uses the Hornady bullet, Hodgdons uses the Sierra 180gr. JHC bullet.
Different bullets are made with different hardness of materials and have different bearing surfaces that can cause different pressures with the same load in the same gun.

If your using the Horndy XTP you should probably start with their recommended loads.

WiskyT
12-24-2011, 17:02
What Fred said above plus your talking about 2 different bullets.

The Hornady manual uses the Hornady bullet, Hodgdons uses the Sierra 180gr. JHC bullet.
Different bullets are made with different hardness of materials and have different bearing surfaces that can cause different pressures with the same load in the same gun.

If your using the Horndy XTP you should probably start with their recommended loads.

The bullets aren't that different. I think the whole "science" of developing data is more of a "good guess".

fredj338
12-24-2011, 21:57
The bullets aren't that different. I think the whole "science" of developing data is more of a "good guess".
They are not that diff, but little things matter when it comes to pressures, particularly in handguns. A thicker jacket, harder lead core, longer bearing surface, it all matters with regards to pessures vs vel. Point, all data is NOT collected the same way & reloaders need to understand what exactly they are reading in the manuals to make safe ammo.

ColoCG
12-24-2011, 22:13
They are not taht diff, but little things matter when it comes to pressures, particularly in handguns. A thicker jacker, harder lead core, longer bearing surface, it all matters with regards to pessures vs vel. Point, all data is NOT collected the same way & reloaders need to understande what exactly they are reading in the manuals to make safe ammo.


:agree: :thumbsup:

WiskyT
12-25-2011, 13:52
They are not that diff, but little things matter when it comes to pressures, particularly in handguns. A thicker jacket, harder lead core, longer bearing surface, it all matters with regards to pessures vs vel. Point, all data is NOT collected the same way & reloaders need to understand what exactly they are reading in the manuals to make safe ammo.

What about lint in the barrel or what day of the week it is? Not long ago, manuals listed loads by bullet weight. That's it. Now I'm supposed to beilieve that whether a bullet has subtle hints of tanins or leather, it changes everything?

fredj338
12-25-2011, 16:06
What about lint in the barrel or what day of the week it is? Not long ago, manuals listed loads by bullet weight. That's it. Now I'm supposed to beilieve that whether a bullet has subtle hints of tanins or leather, it changes everything?

That's fine T, you want to think that things like OAL, not mentioned in early loading manuals, bearign surfaces or bullet construction doesn't mean anything, go right ahead & keep loading the way you have been. God protects, well, you know the saying.:whistling:

WiskyT
12-25-2011, 17:31
That's fine T, you want to think that things like OAL, not mentioned in early loading manuals, bearign surfaces or bullet construction doesn't mean anything, go right ahead & keep loading the way you have been. God protects, well, you know the saying.:whistling:

Yup, and loads were heavier then too. What I have found is that I can get the velocity I'm looking for, if I want a specific velocity, (typically factory velocity for a given bullet) and still be below the old data. It lets me sleep good at night and my ammo does what I want.

fredj338
12-26-2011, 13:05
Yup, and loads were heavier then too. What I have found is that I can get the velocity I'm looking for, if I want a specific velocity, (typically factory velocity for a given bullet) and still be below the old data. It lets me sleep good at night and my ammo does what I want.

You do realize that certain "factory" vel are almost never taken in average gun bbl lengths & are pretty generous. Trying to reach "Factory vel" w/ a 4" or shorter service bbl is certainly going to push most into the unsafe pressure range. Also consider most factory ammo is NOT loaded w/ off the shelf powders, trying to reach factory vel is certainly an excersize in caution w/ certain calibers.

WiskyT
12-26-2011, 14:38
You do realize that certain "factory" vel are almost never taken in average gun bbl lengths & are pretty generous. Trying to reach "Factory vel" w/ a 4" or shorter service bbl is certainly going to push most into the unsafe pressure range. Also consider most factory ammo is NOT loaded w/ off the shelf powders, trying to reach factory vel is certainly an excersize in caution w/ certain calibers.

I get 1000fps with Ranger 147's out of my G17. That is just about spot on with the factory listed data with a 4" barrel. I pulled a bullet and they use under 4 grains of whatever powder it is. I then get the same velocity with a larger dose of a presumedly slower powder that is under the max load.

It's the same way with several other combos I have used. If I'm getting identicle velocity with slower powder, the pressure must be lower. It's also within somebody's manual which gives me peace of mind.