I Can't Help But Laugh At Myself [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Bodyarmorguy
12-27-2011, 21:16
My neighbor/fellow shooter....goes on binges where he becomes obsessed with what bullets expands the best. Internet forums, youtube, he looks everywhere for that magic bullet.

The "thing" he keeps coming back with is "No, that bullet doesn't expand when it is shot through multiple layers of denim" or "Yes, that bullet does well in the denim tests." I can't help but laugh thinking that this would be a good valid argument if we are ever attacked by Canada, lol.

Yeah, yeah I know.....it;s in the FBI protocol tests.....I still just can't remember the last guy I saw wearing a denim jacket, much less multiple denim jackets.

Zombie Steve
12-27-2011, 21:32
http://blog.denimtherapy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Britney-Spears-Justin-Timberlake-Red-Carpet.jpg

It's in case you have to shoot through two targets at once.

smokeross
12-27-2011, 22:14
I really enjoyed testing mine out on abandoned cars when I was a kid. Amazing what you can do with the little .22 on an old Buick.

DocKWL
12-28-2011, 03:31
My neighbor/fellow shooter....goes on binges where he becomes obsessed with what bullets expands the best. Internet forums, youtube, he looks everywhere for that magic bullet.

The "thing" he keeps coming back with is "No, that bullet doesn't expand when it is shot through multiple layers of denim" or "Yes, that bullet does well in the denim tests." I can't help but laugh thinking that this would be a good valid argument if we are ever attacked by Canada, lol.

Yeah, yeah I know.....it;s in the FBI protocol tests.....I still just can't remember the last guy I saw wearing a denim jacket, much less multiple denim jackets.

The denim test has nothing to do with the wearing of clothing.

WiskyT
12-28-2011, 07:18
The denim test has nothing to do with the wearing of clothing.

You're correct. It's just an arbitrary test that some beaurocrat came up with that everyone then had to tune their bullets for. At some point a big thinker will decide that since a bullet might go through a computer moniter, all bullets must be tested for that and the bullet makers will change them again.

At least the RCMP used a clothing barrier that made some kind of sense. Of course, all the bullets in their tests expanded, even at 50 yards.

DocKWL
12-28-2011, 08:47
You're correct. It's just an arbitrary test that some beaurocrat came up with that everyone then had to tune their bullets for. At some point a big thinker will decide that since a bullet might go through a computer moniter, all bullets must be tested for that and the bullet makers will change them again.

At least the RCMP used a clothing barrier that made some kind of sense. Of course, all the bullets in their tests expanded, even at 50 yards.

Your assumption is also incorrect.

HKLovingIT
12-28-2011, 11:11
Ahh the ole Canadian Tuxedo test.

WiskyT
12-28-2011, 13:55
Your assumption is also incorrect.

Says you. BTW, it's an opinion, not an assumption. It's my opinion that 4 layer denim is arbitrary. It is my opinion that the people who decided it was the propper test are beaurocrats. Yours is nothing more than an opinion as well.

The RCMP used actual clothing that people wear. Undershirts, shirts, heavy winter coat. Every bullet they fired expanded BTW.

DocKWL
12-28-2011, 16:14
Says you. BTW, it's an opinion, not an assumption. It's my opinion that 4 layer denim is arbitrary. It is my opinion that the people who decided it was the propper test are beaurocrats. Yours is nothing more than an opinion as well.

The RCMP used actual clothing that people wear. Undershirts, shirts, heavy winter coat. Every bullet they fired expanded BTW.


Sorry for being vague earlier, I was in transit:

You (and anyone else interested in learning the facts behind the denim testing should read THIS (http://www.firearmstactical.com/tacticalbriefs/2006/04/02/0604-02a.htm).

Snippets:

"The four-layer heavy denim test was jointly developed by engineer Duncan MacPherson and California Highway Patrol to force manufacturers to design bullets that will expand more reliably when heavy clothing is encountered in actual shooting events. "

"Therefore the four-layer heavy denim test is NOT intended to simulate any type of clothing; it is merely an engineering evaluation tool to assess the ability of JHP handgun bullets to resist plugging and expand robustly."

Further investigation will reveal that the thread count also matters. In most cases, simply placing cut-up jean pants in front of water jugs will not tell an accurate story.

This test was not developed by "beaurocrats" [sic] and I state facts, not opinion.


The RCMP used actual clothing that people wear. Undershirts, shirts, heavy winter coat. Every bullet they fired expanded BTW

I am curious for you to divulge the test bullets.

WiskyT
12-28-2011, 17:38
Sorry for being vague earlier, I was in transit:

You (and anyone else interested in learning the facts behind the denim testing should read THIS (http://www.firearmstactical.com/tacticalbriefs/2006/04/02/0604-02a.htm).

Snippets:

"The four-layer heavy denim test was jointly developed by engineer Duncan MacPherson and California Highway Patrol to force manufacturers to design bullets that will expand more reliably when heavy clothing is encountered in actual shooting events. "

"Therefore the four-layer heavy denim test is NOT intended to simulate any type of clothing; it is merely an engineering evaluation tool to assess the ability of JHP handgun bullets to resist plugging and expand robustly."

Further investigation will reveal that the thread count also matters. In most cases, simply placing cut-up jean pants in front of water jugs will not tell an accurate story.

This test was not developed by "beaurocrats" [sic] and I state facts, not opinion.




I am curious for you to divulge the test bullets.


I've read all of that. It doesn't change the fact that it's arbitrary. Why not make it 6 layers of denim, or eight, or only three? And they are beaurocrats. That's as much "fact" as your opinions that you claim are "facts".

The FBI, RCMP, and USBP, and IWBA all have different opinions on this stuff, but only the one you agree with is the factually correct way to go about it huh? You sound like a true beauracrat yourself so I can understand the sensativity to that word.

Here, let me "divulge" the public knowledge, google searchable, Canadian produced super secret info you requested. Call it one guy doing another a "solid":upeyes:

http://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection_2008/ps-sp/PS63-2-1995-1E.pdf

Bodyarmorguy
12-30-2011, 17:55
I guess maybe I should have posted this in the humor section. The problem with the internet is that voice flexion and tone don't come across. I had hoped that the title of my thread would have conveyed that I am picturing us being attacked by Canada or a hoard of denim wearing zombies........didn't mean to spark an entire debate about testing protocols and the like.....

WiskyT
12-30-2011, 17:59
I guess maybe I should have posted this in the humor section. The problem with the internet is that voice flexion and tone don't come across. I had hoped that the title of my thread would have conveyed that I am picturing us being attacked by Canada or a hoard of denim wearing zombies........didn't mean to spark an entire debate about testing protocols and the like.....

Kind of surprising when you consider your sig line.