10mm on the rise!! [Archive] - Glock Talk

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cablecutter
12-29-2011, 14:59
seems to me that 10mm is on the rise. What would you guess would be the next gun manufacture to produce another 10mm?

Gamisouu
12-29-2011, 15:18
M&P 10mm Compact plz!

cablecutter
12-29-2011, 15:26
M&P 10mm Compact plz!

oh a slice of heaven!!! I would be down!

SWAMPRNR
12-29-2011, 15:30
Springfield XDM in 10mm. :steamed:

cablecutter
12-29-2011, 15:36
Springfield XDM in 10mm. :steamed:

well I would love one in a XDM but I doubt that springfield armory would go for the 10mm since they don't have the xdm in 357 sig yet.

alwaysshootin
12-29-2011, 15:39
M&P 10mm Compact plz!

Hell, midsize, fullsize, I don't care! Any size and I will have at least one!:cool:

alwaysshootin
12-29-2011, 15:40
well I would love one in a XDM but I doubt that springfield armory would go for the 10mm since they don't have the xdm in 357 sig yet.

The 10MM would be the only XD, I'd have!

Vance665
12-29-2011, 16:33
I could see FNH making one maby, they make alot of unique guns.

Dr.Midnight
12-29-2011, 16:38
seems to me that 10mm is on the rise. What would you guess would be the next gun manufacture to produce another 10mm?

There are some die-hard 10mm fans out there, and I'm not trying to be a wiseguy when I ask this, but what signs tell you that the popularity of that caliber is on the rise?

alwaysshootin
12-29-2011, 16:39
How about a CZ 105? :wow: They have a 75,85, and 97! EEA makes a 10 and they could beat Veltor to the market!:whistling:

alwaysshootin
12-29-2011, 16:45
There are some die-hard 10mm fans out there, and I'm not trying to be a wiseguy when I ask this, but what signs tell you that the popularity of that caliber is on the rise?

If you go towards the top of the GT home page, and click on "new posts", frequently, you'll find, that most, caliber specific, questions, thoughts, and new firearm purchases, are of the 10MM. You will see that there is a growing population of shooters seeing just what the 10 offers, and most are quite exuberant in their find!

Glockz0r
12-29-2011, 16:46
10mm sucks!

G26S239
12-29-2011, 16:53
seems to me that 10mm is on the rise. What would you guess would be the next gun manufacture to produce another 10mm?
A 1911 mfg will make a limited run at some point in the future. I don't see any evidence of more interest in 10mm now than there was 5 or 10 years ago.

alwaysshootin
12-29-2011, 16:53
10mm Rocks!

Fixed it for you!:wavey:

GlockFish
12-29-2011, 16:55
I want a Ruger GP100 & SP101 in 10mm.

Ridgeway
12-29-2011, 17:06
I'd love a 10mm M&P. But realistically I'd say a limited run 1911 is about all we will get for the foreseeable future.
It may be on the rise on some of the forums, but we are still in the minority of gun owners. I doubt there is enough interest to get a major manufacturer to tool up for what would be a low volume product.
Just look @ HK essentially phasing out .357 sig (I believe).

alwaysshootin
12-29-2011, 17:07
I want a Ruger GP100 & SP101 in 10mm.

How cool would that be?

legion3
12-29-2011, 17:08
seems to me that 10mm is on the rise. What would you guess would be the next gun manufacture to produce another 10mm?

Vltor :rofl: oh nevermind :tongueout:

None! Neither the market nor the profit is there. If it was they would be built and so far no one even seems to be willing.

lordofmpower
12-29-2011, 17:09
I'd make love to a P30 in 10mm or a p2000sk in 10mm

legion3
12-29-2011, 17:10
If you go towards the top of the GT home page, and click on "new posts", frequently, you'll find, that most, caliber specific, questions, thoughts, and new firearm purchases, are of the 10MM. You will see that there is a growing population of shooters seeing just what the 10 offers, and most are quite exuberant in their find!

Which still are not, however, the vast majority of the shooting public, military, law enforcement or civilian. That majority has already rejected the 10mm as a every day option for a myriad of reasons.

And no amount of high priced 1911 platforms will change that.

alwaysshootin
12-29-2011, 17:14
Vltor :rofl: oh nevermind :tongueout:

None! Neither the market nor the profit is there. If it was they would be built and so far no one even seems to be willing.

Vltor, I'll give you :rofl:

but,

How long were the reintroduction of the S&W 610 around?

When Kimber reintroduces the Custom Target in 10 with a suggested retail of $1250+, how long will they be around?

alwaysshootin
12-29-2011, 17:18
Which still are not, however, the vast majority of the shooting public, military, law enforcement or civilian. That majority has already rejected the 10mm as a every day option for a myriad of reasons.

And no amount of high priced 1911 platforms will change that.

I'll have to disagree. It wasn't "that" population, for the most part, that rejected the 10. It was rejected for them, LE, and military for sure. Most have been handed stun guns, to use in the field. So, I think that tells the tale on why they aren't allowed the use of the 10!

esh325
12-29-2011, 17:27
If it becomes more popular good, if it remains a niche cartridge with a small loyal following, then oh well. Doesn't matter to me.

I'll have to disagree. It wasn't "that" population, for the most part, that rejected the 10. It was rejected for them, LE, and military for sure. Most have been handed stun guns, to use in the field. So, I think that tells the tale on why they aren't allowed the use of the 10!
Stun guns? Huh?

alwaysshootin
12-29-2011, 17:36
If it becomes more popular good, if it remains a niche cartridge with a small loyal following, then oh well. Doesn't matter to me.


Stun guns? Huh?

My bad. Tazers, couldn't think of what they were called!:rofl:

Oh, and not to mention, bean bag guns! Just a couple of tools to be used that are less than lethal. Wonder why they make them use them?

blastfact
12-29-2011, 17:49
It is on the rise and I'm glad. It's a great caliber. The LSG's around here can't keep any currently or pass production 10mm weapon in stock. Everything on there standard stock orders are sold and used weapons never last more than a day or so under glass.

There are more custom ammo manufactures coming online supplying great full power well made, safe 10mm ammo. Priced well might I add. I even see 10mm whimpy ass .40 S&W class junk in Wal-Mart every once in awhile. And at a couple of local farm and ranch store's. And as always match grade full power and above 10mm ammo is only a reloading bench away.

If you want a mag. class auto pistol load? 10mm is the way to go! And more shooters are finding that out and embracing it. :)

alwaysshootin
12-29-2011, 17:59
It is on the rise and I'm glad. It's a great caliber. The LSG's around here can't keep any currently or pass production 10mm weapon in stock. Everything on there standard stock orders are sold and used weapons never last more than a day or so under glass.

There are more custom ammo manufactures coming online supplying great full power well made, safe 10mm ammo. Priced well might I add. I even see 10mm whimpy ass .40 S&W class junk in Wal-Mart every once in awhile. And at a couple of local farm and ranch store's. And as always match grade full power and above 10mm ammo is only a reloading bench away.

If you want a mag. class auto pistol load? 10mm is the way to go! And more shooters are finding that out and embracing it. :)

:perfect10: Well said, and I agree! You actually found 10's in a walmart?:faint:

Surely, that is a true sign the 10 is on the rise!

HKLovingIT
12-29-2011, 18:00
It's because of the link I posted to that kid's 10mm video. :rofl:

Here is a link to a pretty recent video over at Gun Blast all about 10mm for you guys:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-ClEZPs8os

esh325
12-29-2011, 18:01
My bad. Tazers, couldn't think of what they were called!:rofl:

Oh, and not to mention, bean bag guns! Just a couple of tools to be used that are less than lethal. Wonder why they make them use them?
Taser or stun gun, doesn't matter. What does it have to do with the 10mm not being used by LE?

legion3
12-29-2011, 18:05
I'll have to disagree. It wasn't "that" population, for the most part, that rejected the 10. It was rejected for them, LE, and military for sure. Most have been handed stun guns, to use in the field. So, I think that tells the tale on why they aren't allowed the use of the 10!

Um no!

The shooting public at large has rejected the 10mm. For many reasons not just that it failed to catch on in Law enforcement. 357 Sig and 45GAP are likely to have a longer LE career than the 10mm had.

When any of the major LE ammo makers puts out a 10mm round in Ranger, HST, Gold Dot, then I will believe its on the rise.

When any company other than a 1911 maker (that have alredy put them out) puts out a new platform let me know.

fnfalman
12-29-2011, 18:07
Is Miami Vice TV series on the rerun again?

legion3
12-29-2011, 18:12
It is on the rise and I'm glad. It's a great caliber. The LSG's around here can't keep any currently or pass production 10mm weapon in stock. Everything on there standard stock orders are sold and used weapons never last more than a day or so under glass.

There are more custom ammo manufactures coming online supplying great full power well made, safe 10mm ammo. Priced well might I add. I even see 10mm whimpy ass .40 S&W class junk in Wal-Mart every once in awhile. And at a couple of local farm and ranch store's. And as always match grade full power and above 10mm ammo is only a reloading bench away.

If you want a mag. class auto pistol load? 10mm is the way to go! And more shooters are finding that out and embracing it. :)

Nonsense :wavey:

They can't keep them in stock because they are so few in numbers to begin with and the 10mm fanatics jump on them like they may not see another one...which they might!

Try selling one at a gun store or gun show around here, might as well be selling a dirty diaper. Unless you hit the one 10mm fan running around.

Who are these new custom ammo makers? DT, Swamp Fox, Buffalo Bore are know who else? And what is "priced well"?

Embracing it? Well the why aren't the big manufactures added 10mm's to their lineups? Afterall if their is so much profit in it why not? :wavey:

legion3
12-29-2011, 18:14
Is Miami Vice TV series on the rerun again?

Only seasons 1 and 2 :whistling:

A 45 took over after that :crying:

Glockz0r
12-29-2011, 18:14
Who are these new custom ammo makers? DT, Swamp Fox, Buffalo Bore are know who else? And what is "priced well"?


Swamp Fox has passed away however Underwood has gained a great rep for full power loads.

45 Cal
12-29-2011, 18:15
I love my G29....just cant afford to shoot it.

legion3
12-29-2011, 18:20
Swamp Fox has passed away however Underwood has gained a great rep for full power loads.

Yes I have heard of underwood, but one is not "more" as in "a lot" are coming online.

Corbon and Hornady are the only big name makers of SD 10mm (oh and the silvertips and hydra shoks, I guess, but the price of those have sure gone up!) am I correct?



A quick look on ammo to go shows few SD choices and even fewer FMJ choices. Hmm.

alwaysshootin
12-29-2011, 18:23
Um no!

The shooting public at large has rejected the 10mm. For many reasons not just that it failed to catch on in Law enforcement. 357 Sig and 45GAP are likely to have a longer LE career than the 10mm had.

When any of the major LE ammo makers puts out a 10mm round in Ranger, HST, Gold Dot, then I will believe its on the rise.

First of all I disagree that the shooting public at large has rejected the 10. More here feel as I do, in this post, that there is a growing 10 fan base.

As far as the Ranger, HST, and Gold Dot, manufacturing 10MM ammo, it probably isn't going to happen. Mostly because, unlike other calibers, that type of bullet construction isn't needed to become an adequate choice in caliber!:whistling:

michael e
12-29-2011, 18:31
I would like to see someone offer a 1911 10mm for a reasonable price, a full size and snubby revolver too.

cowboy1964
12-29-2011, 19:07
I'd love a 10mm M&P. But realistically I'd say a limited run 1911 is about all we will get for the foreseeable future.
It may be on the rise on some of the forums, but we are still in the minority of gun owners. I doubt there is enough interest to get a major manufacturer to tool up for what would be a low volume product.
Just look @ HK essentially phasing out .357 sig (I believe).

Yep. I think S&W is doing away with it for the M&Ps too? Not sure. Not sure why HK is abandoning it. It's just a barrel change.

legion3
12-29-2011, 19:15
First of all I disagree that the shooting public at large has rejected the 10. More here feel as I do, in this post, that there is a growing 10 fan base.

As far as the Ranger, HST, and Gold Dot, manufacturing 10MM ammo, it probably isn't going to happen. Mostly because, unlike other calibers, that type of bullet construction isn't needed to become an adequate choice in caliber!:whistling:

Well you may disagree but the bean counters at most of the major (and minor) handgun (or any gun) makers don't seem to get the same polling data you have. One of you is wrong :whistling:

If it sold they would make it. Glock probably sells more 10mm's than anyone and what is the figure on those sales? I bet glock knows exactly how many to make in a year to be profitable, and they probably make very few extras.

A growing fan base is not all that is required to keep a franchise from failing. In the gun world big contracts somewhere are needed to keep the ball rolling.
With no LE or military demand anywhere in the world, it would take a huge leap of faith for any maker to try to push that ball.

And I know this may come as a shock but not everyone wants a 1911, a SA platform, especially one that runs 1K and up and most of the 1911 fanatics I know would not want one in 10mm if it were given to them.

Your right what is needed to be an adequate choice in 10mm is either a lot of money to buy small maker boutique ammo or a reloading bench. And the vast, vast majority of shooters will never reload and don't wish to spend big $ on speciality ammo.

If you do reload then the 10mm is a fantastic round but most don't and most won't unless they are forced to at some point.

svtpwnz
12-29-2011, 19:23
How about a Kahr MK10. Haha, the MK40 is a handful already, I could only imagine a MK10. I would in all seriousness love to see a HK USP compact in 10 mm with a stainless slide.

legion3
12-29-2011, 19:35
Yep. I think S&W is doing away with it for the M&Ps too? Not sure. Not sure why HK is abandoning it. It's just a barrel change.

At the HK forums the general consense is lack of sales and big contracts and HK just not pushing the product very hard (or some variation of all 3).

Sig and Glock seem to have the lion share of the 357sig police contracts and HK's price point does not help out civilian sales.

The HK guys seem to be scrambling to get them before they are gone.

with regards to SW and the discontinue of the M&P 357 sig, which does have several police contracts, the following was posted at another board,

I talked with the Smith Reps at the NRA Convention concerning the M&P 357. They confirmed that general production of 357 pistols has stopped. Limited runs of M&P 357 will be made for law enforcement only upon request or with limited stock.

Their reason was simply low sales volume equals low profit.

Take that FWIW.

01coltcolt
12-29-2011, 22:01
HK destroyed the mold.....................:whistling: The MP5/10 platform was the perfect 10mm intent!
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_pPsuc9rvU4Y/SmT05ywUEZI/AAAAAAAAAKM/5pD10knHlMM/s400/FBI's+MP10+with+2+round+burst.jpg
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQBXf-tB9yD81GF93oo_buXcJ4QAtHmHN3ZHAPYdVDd4DacHaKPuA
http://remtek.com/arms/hk/mil/mp5/mp510/mp510.gif

GlockFish
12-29-2011, 22:12
How about a Kahr MK10. Haha, the MK40 is a handful already, I could only imagine a MK10. I would in all seriousness love to see a HK USP compact in 10 mm with a stainless slide.

A kahr 10mm? Single stack, full size, all steel, slim, 10mm. 7 or 8 round mags.

It would be labeled the Kahr T10. Very similar to the full size Kahr T9.
I'd buy one. Damn right, I would.

Tiro Fijo
12-29-2011, 22:53
A kahr 10mm? Single stack, full size, all steel, slim, 10mm. 7 or 8 round mags.

It would be labeled the Kahr T10. Very similar to the full size Kahr T9.
I'd buy one. Damn right, I would.


You'd need a shock absorber off a Catepillar to act as a recoil spring!! :whistling:

:supergrin:

10mm Sonny
12-30-2011, 00:04
MIAMI VICE will never die!

I want a XDm-10

carbuncle
12-30-2011, 00:11
I got a reloading setup for Christmas, so the G20 made to jump up to the short list along with a .45 LC Redhawk. Both rounds are too rich for my blood if I have to pay retail for ammo, but reloading changes the equation.

legion3
12-30-2011, 00:29
MIAMI VICE will never die!
I want a XDm-10

No it won't!!!

And you have more chance of getting a Bren Ten (oh not the Vltor one but the real Dornus & Dixon) than getting an XDM in 10.

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x49/roman3/600px-MV-BRE10-6.png

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x49/roman3/600px-MV-BRE10-8.jpg

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x49/roman3/600px-MV-BRE10-7.jpg

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x49/roman3/600px-MV-BREN10-2.jpg

legion3
12-30-2011, 00:32
And while I'm at it here is a cool letter concerning the best 10 platform, at least that I owned, and just how many are floating about.

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x49/roman3/sw1046_letter1a.jpg

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x49/roman3/guns/10mmfullad.jpg

10mm Sonny
12-30-2011, 01:33
And you have more chance of getting a Bren Ten (oh not the Vltor one but the real Dornus & Dixon) than getting an XDM in 10.

Saw one today at my LGS for $3,999.

NeverMore1701
12-30-2011, 02:27
I really want a Colt Delta Elite. That's about the only platform I'd find a 10mm interesting in. Unless Beretta came out with a 10mm Px4 Storm, but that isn't likely to happen.

legion3
12-30-2011, 04:28
Saw one today at my LGS for $3,999.

You can find them less than that.

Recently a LGS had a Marksman Special(Viced - someone had chromed it to look like miami vice) (one of the 250 or so 45 ACP full size Bren Tens made for a gun store in Chicago Illinois :upeyes: my how times have changed) for around $1800ish and I have seen some Brens in the upper 1000s and low 2000s.

I had a Bren Ten back in the days of my 10mm kick. I had a Special forces Dark (which was not like Crocketts :crying:) which I bought from a friend. It was cool but the 1006 and 1066 were better overall guns so I parted with the Bren.

If it had been a "vice" model - full sized and chromed - them maybe I would still have it. Then again since I have moved on from the 10mm probably not.

legion3
12-30-2011, 04:33
I really want a Colt Delta Elite. That's about the only platform I'd find a 10mm interesting in. Unless Beretta came out with a 10mm Px4 Storm, but that isn't likely to happen.

You know Colt could have done better with the DE when they re-introduced it. They could have upgraded it and given a newer makeover but all they really did was nothing but re-release the 80's gun.

And unfortunately the DE suffered from bad reputations and became the "gun" that was battered to pieces by the Norma and other over pressured ammo of that era. Which was pretty much all nonsense but perception is often reality.

Even today you still see questions like "is the 1911 platform" or the "Delta Elite" tough enough to stand the pounding. The vast majority of the ones in the past were but what can you do?

mt920
12-30-2011, 06:31
I would love to see Glock release a Gen4 Glock 20 this year. Maybe in July when my GSSF certificate is scheduled to arrive.

joecoastie
12-30-2011, 08:33
My bad. Tazers, couldn't think of what they were called!:rofl:

Oh, and not to mention, bean bag guns! Just a couple of tools to be used that are less than lethal. Wonder why they make them use them?

Because not every situation requires the use of deadly force.

fnfalman
12-30-2011, 09:27
You know Colt could have done better with the DE when they re-introduced it. They could have upgraded it and given a newer makeover but all they really did was nothing but re-release the 80's gun.


What are they going to upgrade it with? Front slide serration? Different checkering on the grip frame?

I'm glad that Colt released the gun as is. People who want to chop up their guns can still do it. People who want a simple M1911 without any doodads don't have to worry about having to undo things.

gatorboy
12-30-2011, 09:49
I would love to see Glock release a Gen4 Glock 20 this year. Maybe in July when my GSSF certificate is scheduled to arrive.

It's on it's way.

Ten years ago before there were other poly 45's that were decent, we'd be hearing a ton about the G4 21. To my surprise there has been very little interest or excitement about it, even here on GT.

The best chance of a new 10mm IMO will be the M&P. S&W has supported it before and made some fine handguns chambered in it. Most over-built which is a good thing when not looking to shave ounces by using plastic. The FS should be 15+1 and the C should be 12-13+1. I base this on the size of the FS M&P 40 mags and Glock 23 mags which are the same size as the FS and C M&P 45 mags. I like how the M&P is designed and the FS 45 has a longer recoil rod than any pistol (of a few :whistling:) I own. Even pistols with 6" barrels. It should'nt be difficult to make that one run nicely in 10mm. It's also one of the few pistols reccommended for hotter .45 based rounds, along with the Glock 21.

cablecutter
12-30-2011, 10:08
I think the 10mm would become even more popular if there were more choices in a polymer frame. I agree a M&P would be the ticket and likely the company that would carry another 10mm firearm. Reason why I think it is on the rise is there are more and more people creating threads for the 10mm. I would say it is up there with the number of 357 sig threads I see IMO


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

legion3
12-30-2011, 10:20
It's on it's way.


The best chance of a new 10mm IMO will be the M&P. S&W has supported it before and made some fine handguns chambered in it.


And dropped it like a hot potato. Once the FBI dropped the 10mm its fate was sealed for LE contracts. Why they dropped it is not important, that they did is.

Not sure SW is sound enough finacially to venture out on a limb with a product that just won't sell in big numbers or to governemnt contracts. Their stock is still under $5 a share and they still have debt and credit issues. (Rugers stock is like $33 a share with far less debt)

If Smith is dropping the 357 SIG M&P which does have several state agencies using it why would you think they would venture down the 10mm road?

legion3
12-30-2011, 10:23
I think the 10mm would become even more popular if there were more choices in a polymer frame. I agree a M&P would be the ticket and likely the company that would carry another 10mm firearm. Reason why I think it is on the rise is there are more and more people creating threads for the 10mm. I would say it is up there with the number of 357 sig threads I see IMO

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

So your belief or hope is based on the number of threads on internet message boards? Based on that sampling you would believe SW or any company will tread down the 10mm path?

Hmmm :dunno:

fnfalman
12-30-2011, 11:02
So your belief or hope is based on the number of threads on internet message boards? Based on that sampling you would believe SW or any company will tread down the 10mm path?

Hmmm :dunno:

SW just released the M610 again. Safety lock and all. :steamed:

legion3
12-30-2011, 11:36
SW just released the M610 again. Safety lock and all. :steamed:

A single model revolver that is simply a reintroduction is not much of a step.

Also they did not offer the 610 in all barrel lenghts and is it not a limited run gun?

That however, is a far cry from an M&P in 10mm .

professorj
12-30-2011, 11:38
A 1911 mfg will make a limited run at some point in the future. I don't see any evidence of more interest in 10mm now than there was 5 or 10 years ago.

Auto ordnance made a 10mm 1911 and Thompson did also.

Don't Tread On Me

yellolab
12-30-2011, 11:46
As this thread needs a pic, here are my 3 10mm's.

Kevin

fnfalman
12-30-2011, 11:59
A single model revolver that is simply a reintroduction is not much of a step.

Also they did not offer the 610 in all barrel lenghts and is it not a limited run gun?

That however, is a far cry from an M&P in 10mm .

One step at a time.

CDW4ME
12-30-2011, 12:00
I've done my little part in the recent rise, bought a 29 SF and have shot 300 rounds through it, details & picture posted here:

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1391034

:wavey:

legion3
12-30-2011, 12:17
One step at a time.

Well that last step will be a doozy! And will likely be down the road more traveled not less.:wavey:

legion3
12-30-2011, 16:28
A poster at HKpro asked in a recent thread "why no HK handgun in 10mm?"

some of the better responses,

Because it won't sell. If there are 10 people who want the round there are another 50,000 who don't give a rip. Companies have tried it, lost, and tossed the idea.

HK focuses on military / LEO market, which has zero interest in 10MM.

There's no large scale market for it. 10mm is one of my favorite calibers for sheer semi-auto power but it's just not popular enough. ..and with HK, no military demand means no market.

esh325
12-30-2011, 17:01
Don't yell at here, but these gelatin tests show the 10mm not being that much better then a .45 acp. Could this be why the 10mm isn't popular? All that additional recoil and muzzle blast for little performance increase? Yes, I understand it's only 1 load.
.45 acp http://brassfetcher.com/FlyingAshtray.html
10mm http://brassfetcher.com/10mmAuto180grRemJHP.html

alwaysshootin
12-30-2011, 17:09
Don't yell at here, but these gelatin tests show the 10mm not being that much better then a .45 acp. Could this be why the 10mm isn't popular? All that additional recoil and muzzle blast for little performance increase? Yes, I understand it's only 1 load.
.45 acp http://brassfetcher.com/FlyingAshtray.html
10mm http://brassfetcher.com/10mmAuto180grRemJHP.html

The problem with this comparison, is first, Remington doesn't load a true 10 MM load! It's closer to a 40 load. Now when you compare some of double taps offerings, you will see no comparison!

arushus
12-30-2011, 17:20
Don't yell at here, but these gelatin tests show the 10mm not being that much better then a .45 acp. Could this be why the 10mm isn't popular? All that additional recoil and muzzle blast for little performance increase? Yes, I understand it's only 1 load.
.45 acp http://brassfetcher.com/FlyingAshtray.html
10mm http://brassfetcher.com/10mmAuto180grRemJHP.html

The 10mm rounds they fired were traveling at around 1100fps. True 10mm 180gr rounds should be going over 1350fps, with a round designed to impact at that speed, not a .40sw round used in a 10mm case.

esh325
12-30-2011, 18:29
The 10mm rounds they fired were traveling at around 1100fps. True 10mm 180gr rounds should be going over 1350fps, with a round designed to impact at that speed, not a .40sw round used in a 10mm case.
Interesting. Why do they underload 10mm?

legion3
12-31-2011, 02:37
Interesting. Why do they underload 10mm?

All the major ammo makers underload the 10mm. If they make 10mm at all.

Liability, cost ratio and most people don't like the full power loads. Frankly most people don't shoot the 10mm.

If you want full power loads you must seek out the smaller boutique ammo makers or roll your own.

And be advised that Double Tap has had some QC issues with some versions of their ammo, bullet weights not matching the actual bullet, actual velocity not coming anywhere near advertised velocity and substituting montana gold bulets for Gold Dots but not telling you they did it.

That said most people seem satisfied with DT ammo but it has had its reported issues.

Sheepdog Scout
12-31-2011, 06:03
I'm not going to bother to read the entire three pages of this thread, but I'll say this. I like the 10mm cartridge and I own a G20. It can be a hoot to shoot. But honestly, I don't see where some in this thread that are saying that "10mm in on the rise". When many more ammo manufacturers come out with true 10mm loadings and more manufacturers come out with more guns in 10mm, then I'll believe people. Until then, the 10mm in an obscure or niche cartridge at best.

FPS
12-31-2011, 06:41
I want a Ruger GP100 & SP101 in 10mm.

Check out the .41 Magnum.

.

GFlory
12-31-2011, 07:16
M&P 10mm Compact plz!

Put me on the waiting list for one of those.

wanderinwalker
12-31-2011, 07:27
I wanted to chime in on this yesterday but got sidetracked. Anyway...

I would suggest that the number of threads and discussions on the Internet on enthusiast boards is not a fair indicator of how popular an item actually is. Examples:

1) According to the Internet the best long-range target rifles are .300 Magnums, 7mm Magnums and really big honkin' rifles (.338 Lapua anybody?). Yet when I go to a 600 yard match, I see lots of .308s, 6mmXC, 6.5x308s, and .223s, maybe a .284 and rarely a .300 of any sort.

2) According to the Internet rifle-crank fan base, the .260 Remington is the perfect low-recoil deer rifle. Yet there is a Model 7 so chambered at one my LGS's that I'm pretty sure has sat on the used rack for a year or more now, unloved.

3) According to the Internet the 10mm Auto is on the rise. Yet I've never seen one being used at the local pistol range, seen maybe 2-3 total ever for sale at the LGS's and rarely find spent 10mm cases at the range. The last ones I spotted were aluminum CCI Blazers, and I suspect it's one person who is a regular, not multiple shooters.

4) According to the Internet anybody who walks into the great wilderness without at least a 10mm or .44 Magnum handgun is begging to get eaten and accosted. If you don't have a pistol capable of driving a hardcast slug through a Zombie Grizzly end-to-end, you're just not thinking clearly. And if you're West of the Mississippi in real animal country? Better get a real gun and leave those 10mms and .44s at home! ;)

There, I feel better now! :shocked:

blastfact
12-31-2011, 12:27
Nonsense :wavey:

They can't keep them in stock because they are so few in numbers to begin with and the 10mm fanatics jump on them like they may not see another one...which they might!

Try selling one at a gun store or gun show around here, might as well be selling a dirty diaper. Unless you hit the one 10mm fan running around.

Who are these new custom ammo makers? DT, Swamp Fox, Buffalo Bore are know who else? And what is "priced well"?

Embracing it? Well the why aren't the big manufactures added 10mm's to their lineups? Afterall if their is so much profit in it why not? :wavey:

I don't know about your gun stores nor do I care about your part of the country.

I stopped by one of my LGS's after work yesterday to pick up more brass for my 10mm and XTP's in .45 acp, 9mm, 10mm, .38/.357 and my 7.62x25. I never purchase retail ammo. Range, HD and SD ammo is all reloaded or newly built by the wife and I.

While there a nice lady was purchasing new 10mm's. A G29, G20 and a Night Guard in 10mm. And put a DE in layaway! My wife looked at me surprised as hell this little gal built much like her and approx. the same age was going to take on this hard hitting expensive to shoot 10mm.

My wife struck up a conversation with this lady after she made her purchase of weapons and 500 rounds of assorted 10mm ammo. They walked off to a quieter part of the LGS and chatted for a bit. They came back and my wife introduced me to her and informed me we have a pending dinner and range date with her and her husband next. :)

When we got in the car she told me she wanted to shoot my G20 before the dinner and range date. So she will be shooting her first 10mm in about two hours from now.

Does this prove 10mm is on the rise? It is with this little lady. And I have a feeling my wife is going to want a G29 to replace her Mod 60 Pro as her HD and range weapon after she shoots mine and this gals 29. And I hope she is on the path to making a female shooting and range buddy. Who knows,,, maybe this gals husband and I will hit it off. And we will both have new shooting buddy's.

What the 10mm did do is bring some folks together. And possibly get my wife a bit more hooked on shooting.

legion3
12-31-2011, 12:30
I don't know about your gun stores nor do I care about your part of the country.

What the 10mm did do is bring some folks together. And possibly get my wife a bit more hooked on shooting.

Great at least the 10mm did something useful :supergrin:

WiskyT
12-31-2011, 14:06
I don't know about your gun stores nor do I care about your part of the country.

I stopped by one of my LGS's after work yesterday to pick up more brass for my 10mm and XTP's in .45 acp, 9mm, 10mm, .38/.357 and my 7.62x25. I never purchase retail ammo. Range, HD and SD ammo is all reloaded or newly built by the wife and I.

While there a nice lady was purchasing new 10mm's. A G29, G20 and a Night Guard in 10mm. And put a DE in layaway! My wife looked at me surprised as hell this little gal built much like her and approx. the same age was going to take on this hard hitting expensive to shoot 10mm.

My wife struck up a conversation with this lady after she made her purchase of weapons and 500 rounds of assorted 10mm ammo. They walked off to a quieter part of the LGS and chatted for a bit. They came back and my wife introduced me to her and informed me we have a pending dinner and range date with her and her husband next. :)

When we got in the car she told me she wanted to shoot my G20 before the dinner and range date. So she will be shooting her first 10mm in about two hours from now.

Does this prove 10mm is on the rise? It is with this little lady. And I have a feeling my wife is going to want a G29 to replace her Mod 60 Pro as her HD and range weapon after she shoots mine and this gals 29. And I hope she is on the path to making a female shooting and range buddy. Who knows,,, maybe this gals husband and I will hit it off. And we will both have new shooting buddy's.

What the 10mm did do is bring some folks together. And possibly get my wife a bit more hooked on shooting.

http://afflictor.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/bob-carol-ted-alice-1969-2.jpg

NeverMore1701
12-31-2011, 15:30
I wanted to chime in on this yesterday but got sidetracked. Anyway...

I would suggest that the number of threads and discussions on the Internet on enthusiast boards is not a fair indicator of how popular an item actually is. Examples:

1) According to the Internet the best long-range target rifles are .300 Magnums, 7mm Magnums and really big honkin' rifles (.338 Lapua anybody?). Yet when I go to a 600 yard match, I see lots of .308s, 6mmXC, 6.5x308s, and .223s, maybe a .284 and rarely a .300 of any sort.

2) According to the Internet rifle-crank fan base, the .260 Remington is the perfect low-recoil deer rifle. Yet there is a Model 7 so chambered at one my LGS's that I'm pretty sure has sat on the used rack for a year or more now, unloved.

3) According to the Internet the 10mm Auto is on the rise. Yet I've never seen one being used at the local pistol range, seen maybe 2-3 total ever for sale at the LGS's and rarely find spent 10mm cases at the range. The last ones I spotted were aluminum CCI Blazers, and I suspect it's one person who is a regular, not multiple shooters.

4) According to the Internet anybody who walks into the great wilderness without at least a 10mm or .44 Magnum handgun is begging to get eaten and accosted. If you don't have a pistol capable of driving a hardcast slug through a Zombie Grizzly end-to-end, you're just not thinking clearly. And if you're West of the Mississippi in real animal country? Better get a real gun and leave those 10mms and .44s at home! ;)

There, I feel better now! :shocked:

I don't know about the rest of 'em, but I couldn't be happier with my .260. It recoils like a .22, drops deer in their tracks out to at least 330 yards (longs shot I've taken), and I can shoot fairly accurately out to 600 yards (I'm not that great of a shot, the gun is far more capable than I am). If I ran across a used, but not abused, .260 for a good price, I'd grab it for a backup.

deadite
12-31-2011, 16:08
Just bought these two beauties this year:

Custom Colt Delta Elite by Marianne Carniak
http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq15/deadite_photos/guns%20with%20new%20camera/027.jpg

Dan Wesson CBOB in 10mm
http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq15/deadite_photos/guns%20with%20new%20camera/DSC00023.jpg

For me, the popularity of the 10mm is on the rise. ;)

deadite

WiskyT
12-31-2011, 18:16
4) According to the Internet anybody who walks into the great wilderness without at least a 10mm or .44 Magnum handgun is begging to get eaten and accosted. If you don't have a pistol capable of driving a hardcast slug through a Zombie Grizzly end-to-end, you're just not thinking clearly. And if you're West of the Mississippi in real animal country? Better get a real gun and leave those 10mms and .44s at home! ;)

There, I feel better now! :shocked:

I saw a documentary on whale hunting and the Eskimos had rifles to protect themselves from polar bears. They all had Mini-14's.

faawrenchbndr
12-31-2011, 18:17
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c341/faawrenchbndr/ColtDeltaElitepic13.jpg

deadite
12-31-2011, 18:18
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c341/faawrenchbndr/ColtDeltaElitepic13.jpg

I dig those grips, man!

deadite

faawrenchbndr
12-31-2011, 18:33
Thanks,....credit must go to Larry Davidson.

NeverMore1701
12-31-2011, 18:48
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c341/faawrenchbndr/ColtDeltaElitepic13.jpg

Awesome!

glock2740
12-31-2011, 18:52
I'm a big 10mm fan. I have the G20 and G29 and am really surprised that I don't have a 1911 in 10mm...yet. :cool:

HKLovingIT
12-31-2011, 19:07
I wanted to chime in on this yesterday but got sidetracked. Anyway...

I would suggest that the number of threads and discussions on the Internet on enthusiast boards is not a fair indicator of how popular an item actually is. Examples:

1) According to the Internet the best long-range target rifles are .300 Magnums, 7mm Magnums and really big honkin' rifles (.338 Lapua anybody?). Yet when I go to a 600 yard match, I see lots of .308s, 6mmXC, 6.5x308s, and .223s, maybe a .284 and rarely a .300 of any sort.

2) According to the Internet rifle-crank fan base, the .260 Remington is the perfect low-recoil deer rifle. Yet there is a Model 7 so chambered at one my LGS's that I'm pretty sure has sat on the used rack for a year or more now, unloved.

3) According to the Internet the 10mm Auto is on the rise. Yet I've never seen one being used at the local pistol range, seen maybe 2-3 total ever for sale at the LGS's and rarely find spent 10mm cases at the range. The last ones I spotted were aluminum CCI Blazers, and I suspect it's one person who is a regular, not multiple shooters.

4) According to the Internet anybody who walks into the great wilderness without at least a 10mm or .44 Magnum handgun is begging to get eaten and accosted. If you don't have a pistol capable of driving a hardcast slug through a Zombie Grizzly end-to-end, you're just not thinking clearly. And if you're West of the Mississippi in real animal country? Better get a real gun and leave those 10mms and .44s at home! ;)

There, I feel better now! :shocked:


Yeah but number 4 is true though. I read it in caliber corner. :whistling:

Bullman
12-31-2011, 19:25
I want a Ruger GP100 & SP101 in 10mm.

I asked about the SP when I had my GP100 done and he said it wasn't possible, just not enough there to work with.

Bullman
12-31-2011, 19:34
I purchased a used G20 here a while back and hadn't had a chance to shoot it yet. So I went with a fellow glocktalker to a shoot in Beckley WV last night to shoot it for the first time. shot a 480 out of 500. Not bad for the first time around.

GFlory
01-01-2012, 06:40
I checked out the new Colt Delta Elite on Colt's website Friday. They sent me to my local gun store. I headed over to the gun store to buy one, but they told me they have been unable to get them in. I wonder what this means? Can't Colt keep up with demand? Is their run so limited that they are all sold out already?

WiskyT
01-01-2012, 06:49
I checked out the new Colt Delta Elite on Colt's website Friday. They sent me to my local gun store. I headed over to the gun store to buy one, but they told me they have been unable to get them in. I wonder what this means? Can't Colt keep up with demand? Is their run so limited that they are all sold out already?

It means Colt, who is trying to get their act togeather from a commercial standpoint, hasn't gotten there yet.

legion3
01-01-2012, 09:09
I checked out the new Colt Delta Elite on Colt's website Friday. They sent me to my local gun store. I headed over to the gun store to buy one, but they told me they have been unable to get them in. I wonder what this means? Can't Colt keep up with demand? Is their run so limited that they are all sold out already?

Its probably a little of both. 10mm fans will gobble up almost any 10mm that pops up, a few non 10mm shooters may want a DE for the history of the gun and finally its unlikely Colt produces them on a constant basis and if they do its probably only the amount they need to be profitable. The gun is probably a limited run gun likely.

No matter what 10mm supporters want to believe or hope for, 10mm guns just don't sell well, not in large or even moderate scale numbers.

deadite
01-01-2012, 10:48
No matter what 10mm supporters want to believe or hope for, 10mm guns just don't sell well, not in large or even moderate scale numbers.

What it boils down to is that, while the 10mm chambering may not be one of the most popular, it should be. ;)

deadite

alwaysshootin
01-01-2012, 10:58
Its probably a little of both. 10mm fans will gobble up almost any 10mm that pops up, a few non 10mm shooters may want a DE for the history of the gun and finally its unlikely Colt produces them on a constant basis and if they do its probably only the amount they need to be profitable. The gun is probably a limited run gun likely.

No matter what 10mm supporters want to believe or hope for, 10mm guns just don't sell well, not in large or even moderate scale numbers.

So, let me get this straight, "Its probably a little of both. 10mm fans, will gobble up almost any 10mm that pops up, a few non 10mm shooters may want a DE for the history of the gun"! Then your opinion, " No matter what, 10mm supporters, want to believe, or hope for, 10mm guns just don't sell well, not in large or even moderate scale numbers". Yet there are those of us, that want to purchase them, yet never can because of not enough being produced. I guess it is, "your opinion" that is the accurate one in this thread.:upeyes:

IndianaMatt
01-01-2012, 11:03
I love my G20 and I've carried it before when camping in bear country. I'd love to see the 10mm on the rise- ammo is currently too expensive for me to get out and practice much with my G20.

WiskyT
01-01-2012, 11:16
What it boils down to is that, while the 10mm chambering may not be one of the most popular, it should be. ;)

deadite

It's a good round. I'd be just as happy with it as I am with 40SW. Now if someone wants to drop off several 5 gal buckets of 10mm brass and ensure that I will always find more lying around my club, I could buy some large pistol primers and adjust my dies. They'd have to wave a magic wand over my 40SW guns at this point to make them 10mm as well.

If the 40SW never happened, and the 10mm took off like it could/should have, there would be a lot more of us shooting 10mm.

As for the the 10mm "being on the rise", I guess it's just like the conomy getting better. Maybe it is, but 1.5% GPD and 9% unemployment isn't exactly a recovery.

legion3
01-01-2012, 11:17
So, let me get this straight, "Its probably a little of both. 10mm fans, will gobble up almost any 10mm that pops up, a few non 10mm shooters may want a DE for the history of the gun"! Then your opinion, " No matter what, 10mm supporters, want to believe, or hope for, 10mm guns just don't sell well, not in large or even moderate scale numbers". Yet there are those of us, that want to purchase them, yet never can because of not enough being produced. I guess it is, "your opinion" that is the accurate one in this thread.:upeyes:

Well when I say 10mm fans remember there are so few of you overall. And only a very few will add {A} 10mm to the stable. If there were more of you then 10mm's would be made by more gunmakers than the current offerings available. Facts are stubborn things.

This seems to say it best,

If there are 10 people who want the round there are another 50,000 who don't give a rip. Companies have tried it, lost, and tossed the idea.

legion3
01-01-2012, 11:23
What factual evidence shows the 10mm on the rise?

WiskyT
01-01-2012, 11:26
What factual evidence shows the 10mm on the rise?

The same factual evidence that shows there is no inflation.

Actually, SAAMI keeps track of the guns sold, ammo sold, and reloading dies sold by caliber. I don't know to get that info since most SAAMI stuff is members only.

legion3
01-01-2012, 11:30
The same factual evidence that shows there is no inflation.

Actually, SAAMI keeps track of the guns sold, ammo sold, and reloading dies sold by caliber. I don't know to get that info since most SAAMI stuff is members only.

Well thats not evidence. Unless you find a member willing to testify, so to speak.

legion3
01-01-2012, 11:38
Yet there are those of us, that want to purchase them, yet never can because of not enough being produced. I guess it is, "your opinion" that is the accurate one in this thread.:upeyes:

Let me say it another way, supply and demand.

There is little overall demand in the shooting world for 10mm weapons. (And so far no factual evidence to the contrary)

Among the small, solid and fanatical supporters of the 10mm demand is much higher. (thats always been clear on internet message boards)

Gunmakers will only make enough product to be profitable, that number is likely not enough to satisfy those who want every platform ever developed to be made in their pet caliber.

Just not enough 10mm demand and even if it is on the rise, WiskyT may have hit it that the growth is still quite minimal in the overall gunworld so as to be not enough to change the minds of those gunmakers who have passed and continue to pass on new 10mm offerings.

alwaysshootin
01-01-2012, 11:47
Well when I say 10mm fans remember there are so few of you overall. And only a very few will add {A} 10mm to the stable. If there were more of you then 10mm's would be made by more gunmakers than the current offerings available. Facts are stubborn things.

This seems to say it best,

You claim facts, as stubborn! The only thing you are giving is opinions, and they are even more stubborn. Your first sentence is pure opinion! How many 10MM fans are there? You don't know, so obviously, just your opinion, right?

Your second sentence. "And only a very few will add {A} 10mm to the stable". If the M&P would add a 10 to their lineup, would it sell? How about one in the CZ, or XD line, would they sell. If you think for a second, that 10MM fans wouldn't buy them, you are mistaken. Of course, you made that statement already, that they wouldn't.

Then your last statement, which is completely mistaken. " If there were more of you, then, 10mm's would be made by more gun makers than the current offerings available". What I think you aren't giving a thought to, is the fact that because of the gun makers manufacturing practices, Ruger for example, could not manufacture a 10MM even on their P-Series line of firearm. So obviously, it's not going to happen with their SR-Series. Not to mention, H&K, Sig, Walther, etc, etc, going polymer, and, whatever other changes to cheapen, speed up, their manufacturing process, doubt that even if they wanted to, could come out with a 10MM.

Lastly, since when did you think they manufacture what we want? Rugers Buckeye Special, a < $600 firearm, going for close to a grand, used, when can be found. Ruger could easily reintroduce that firearm! Would they sell? From what you have stated, I'm sure you'll think not, but once again, I'll have to disagree. Just like the Colt Delta Elite, they won't even make it to shops cases, and they will be gone!

crsuribe
01-01-2012, 11:49
There's a rumor going around on the Internet (especially YouTube) that if you don't like the 10mm then you're gay.

Now I don't know what the science behind this statement is or what tests have been performed or how exactly they reached this conclusion but if you think about it, it makes a lot of sense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUNhVQtMEEU&list=FL4t4mNo4zMxSTl0AkYUmfJA&feature=mh_lolz

By the way, a big DARN YOU to the people who posted that super hot Delta Elite porn. Now I feel like I'm 13years old all over again and my palms are all hairy.

Definitely a goal for this year to get myself a Delta Elite. /moan

legion3
01-01-2012, 12:08
You claim facts, as stubborn! The only thing you are giving is opinions, and they are even more stubborn. Your first sentence is pure opinion! How many 10MM fans are there? You don't know, so obviously, just your opinion, right?

Your second sentence. "And only a very few will add {A} 10mm to the stable". If the M&P would add a 10 to their lineup, would it sell? How about one in the CZ, or XD line, would they sell. If you think for a second, that 10MM fans wouldn't buy them, you are mistaken. Of course, you made that statement already, that they wouldn't.

Then your last statement, which is completely mistaken. " If there were more of you, then, 10mm's would be made by more gun makers than the current offerings available". What I think you aren't giving a thought to, is the fact that because of the gun makers manufacturing practices, Ruger for example, could not manufacture a 10MM even on their P-Series line of firearm. So obviously, it's not going to happen with their SR-Series. Not to mention, H&K, Sig, Walther, etc, etc, going polymer, and, whatever other changes to cheapen, speed up, their manufacturing process, doubt that even if they wanted to, could come out with a 10MM.

Lastly, since when did you think they manufacture what we want? Rugers Buckeye Special, a < $600 firearm, going for close to a grand, used, when can be found. Ruger could easily reintroduce that firearm! Would they sell? From what you have stated, I'm sure you'll think not, but once again, I'll have to disagree. Just like the Colt Delta Elite, they won't even make it to shops cases, and they will be gone!

Easy big buy, don't get all excited. The 10mm doesn't sell. That's it and gunmakers know it.

Ruger for example, could not manufacture a 10MM even on their P-Series line of firearm.

Why?

So obviously, it's not going to happen with their SR-Series.

Why?

H&K, Sig, Walther, etc, etc, going polymer, and, whatever other changes to cheapen, speed up, their manufacturing process, doubt that even if they wanted to, could come out with a 10MM.

Why? Glock came out with a Polymer 10mm why couldn't these others. Heck so did EAA offer a polymer Witness.

So now they don't offer it because they can't :dunno:

legion3
01-01-2012, 12:20
There's a rumor going around on the Internet (especially YouTube) that if you don't like the 10mm then you're gay.

Now I don't know what the science behind this statement is or what tests have been performed or how exactly they reached this conclusion but if you think about it, it makes a lot of sense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUNhVQtMEEU&list=FL4t4mNo4zMxSTl0AkYUmfJA&feature=mh_lolz

By the way, a big DARN YOU to the people who posted that super hot Delta Elite porn. Now I feel like I'm 13years old all over again and my palms are all hairy.

Definitely a goal for this year to get myself a Delta Elite. /moan

Well beyond the gay "statement" he paints the typical picture of what 10mm fanatics want and believe but not everyone believe those views. He simply needs to be greatful Glock stuck with the gun and the round, without it the 10mm would have really been over.

Also what is his idea that if Sig came out with a gun that would start the ball rolling? Glock one of the biggest seller of handguns has had a 10mm for years and never given up on it and yet that has not moved the 10mm market to add more modern designs.

alwaysshootin
01-01-2012, 13:01
Easy big buy, don't get all excited. The 10mm doesn't sell. That's it and gunmakers know it.



Why?



Why?



Why? Glock came out with a Polymer 10mm why couldn't these others. Heck so did EAA offer a polymer Witness.

So now they don't offer it because they can't :dunno:

Call Ruger, and ask why no 10MM was ever offered in their P-Series, I did years ago. Their answer will give you insight to your other questions about the other manufactures. Or you can just go on assuming, and stick with your opinions. I know they are stubborn.

Like I asked, if M&P, XD, Ruger Blackhawk, etc, etc, were made available, in 10MM, would they sell? I'm guessing you'd say no. I'd disagree. Like I said before, they wouldn't even make it to the shelves, just like the Colt DE, because there is no demand, right!

legion3
01-01-2012, 13:15
Call Ruger, and ask why no 10MM was ever offered in their P-Series, I did years ago. Their answer will give you insight to your other questions about the other manufactures. Or you can just go on assuming, and stick with your opinions. I know they are stubborn.

Like I asked, if M&P, XD, Ruger Blackhawk, etc, etc, were made available, in 10MM, would they sell? I'm guessing you'd say no. I'd disagree. Like I said before, they wouldn't even make it to the shelves, just like the Colt DE, because there is no demand, right!

So you don't have any answers?

Why should I call Ruger? Why can't you answer why its not possible or they choose not to?

If none of the other makers can make a 10mm polymer, as you suggest, how could S&W do it with the M&P or HS Produkt do it with the XD?

Very confusing :dunno:


How many DE's did Colt make in 2011?

Answer that then we will know if the demand is really high or simply very few pistols available.

And yes a new 10mm pistol would sell but not in numbers to make the initial investment worth it. Hence no new 10mm pistols in any modern designs.

Otherwise they would make it, unless they can't as you suggest.

So bottom line is there is demand but yet no one seems to understand that at a money making level in any of the major handgun makers. :dunno:

Not a good way to run a business. Usually you give the market what they want, or perhaps, they are.

alwaysshootin
01-01-2012, 14:01
So you don't have any answers?

I have already told you I have!



Why should I call Ruger?


Because than you would get it from their mouth, and not from mine!


Why can't you answer why its not possible or they choose not to?


Simple, by me giving you the answer I got, would enable you to claim,

"Well thats not evidence." as you did to WiskyT's post! Find out for yourself, so there is no speculation of rumor!


If none of the other makers can make a 10mm polymer, as you suggest, how could S&W do it with the M&P or HS Produkt do it with the XD?

Very confusing :dunno:

It's as confusing for me. One has to ask, why the other firearms manufactures would let Glock have the entire 10MM market. And before you ask, no, I don't know how many 20/29's are sold annually, but obviously, it's enough because Glock keeps them in production.


How many DE's did Colt make in 2011?

Don't know! You tell me! One thing I'm positive of though, whatever the number, they are all gone!!!!!!!

Answer that then we will know if the demand is really high or simply very few pistols available.

And yes a new 10mm pistol would sell but not in numbers to make the initial investment worth it. Hence no new 10mm pistols in any modern designs.

Otherwise they would make it, unless they can't as you suggest.

So bottom line is there is demand but yet no one seems to understand that at a money making level in any of the major handgun makers. :dunno:

Not a good way to run a business. Usually you give the market what they want, or perhaps, they are.

To all your other questions. Whatever, just go on with your opinions, because that's all they are.

legion3
01-01-2012, 14:33
To all your other questions. Whatever, just go on with your opinions, because that's all they are.

:dunno:

Thats it? No answers. :yawn:


Let me know when a new 10mm pistol is on the market will ya :wavey:

alwaysshootin
01-01-2012, 14:53
:dunno:

Thats it? No answers. :yawn:

Man, opinions,:upeyes: are even more stubborn, than I even thought!

As far as letting you know when another 10MM is available, you'd be way, way, down on the list. I know about a dozen, personally, who are anxiously, awaiting it's arrival! :wavey:

Bren
01-01-2012, 15:02
I want a Ruger GP100 & SP101 in 10mm.

:rofl: I wouldn't carry a Ruger revolver if it was free, but I'd like to have a S&W 610 if I ever found one at the right price. My only current 10mm is a Colt Delta Elite.

I probably should have advertised on here when I let my S&W 1076 with Kentucky State POlice shoulder patch etched on the slide go for under $500 a while back.

legion3
01-01-2012, 15:21
Man, opinions,:upeyes: are even more stubborn, than I even thought!

As far as letting you know when another 10MM is available, you'd be way, way, down on the list. I know about a dozen, personally, who are anxiously, awaiting it's arrival! :wavey:

Apparently others opinions are also stubborn.

Hope that dozen isn't holding their breath. So you know every 10mm fan in your state I see. :supergrin:

But lets let you have the last word and smile.

opinions :upeyes:

GlockFish
01-01-2012, 15:42
:rofl: I wouldn't carry a Ruger revolver if it was free.


And why is that?

WiskyT
01-01-2012, 15:50
The reason there are no new 10mm's being offered is because the formula for the steel they must be made out of was never written down. Only two people knew it, and each only had half of the formula. One of them has died, and with it, the prospects of ever seeing a new 10mm.

Jason D
01-01-2012, 16:09
Meh.

The 10mm has been around for decades.
On the rise it is not. Holding steady is more likely.

I doubt there will be a large manufacturer making any of them.
The ones that make them now, will continue. The ones that have had them in the past might pop out a few now and again.

Bren
01-01-2012, 17:25
And why is that?

Poor quality, disguised by unnecessary weight that makes it feel like it's built solid. They break a lot more than S&W. I rate them equal or a hair above Taurus. I've actually been required to use them in training - never made it through a week with a Ruger revolver or Mini-14 that it didn't have to be replaced with a working one.

Back in the days when we ALL carried revolvers and Ruger had just started making the GP 100 I remember how we all ridiculed the only guy I ever met who carried a Ruger. I think he finally traded it off just so we'd stop making fun of him. He wasn't one of the "gun guys" in the department.

repo4sale
01-01-2012, 17:28
Can i get a drop in 10mm barrel for my glock21 & just put in a 10mm mag?
Or is it too hot of a load for my glock21???

carbuncle
01-01-2012, 17:29
Who has a Witness 10mm? Good or crap?

WiskyT
01-01-2012, 17:31
Poor quality, disguised by unnecessary weight that makes it feel like it's built solid. They break a lot more than S&W. I rate them equal or a hair above Taurus. I've actually been required to use them in training - never made it through a week with a Ruger revolver or Mini-14 that it didn't have to be replaced with a working one.

Back in the days when we ALL carried revolvers and Ruger had just started making the GP 100 I remember how we all ridiculed the only guy I ever met who carried a Ruger. I think he finally traded it off just so we'd stop making fun of him. He wasn't one of the "gun guys" in the department.

:rofl:

alwaysshootin
01-01-2012, 17:51
Can i get a drop in 10mm barrel for my glock21 & just put in a 10mm mag?
Or is it too hot of a load for my glock21???

You will need a KKM conversion barrel, and the 21 is good to go, running 10MM. There are those that feel just taking a 10MM barrel in is fine, but not me. The barrel hood is slightly different dimensions, and although will fit, it's not a proper fit. Yes all that is needed after a conversion barrel is a G20 magazine.

Bullman
01-01-2012, 17:54
Poor quality, disguised by unnecessary weight that makes it feel like it's built solid. They break a lot more than S&W. I rate them equal or a hair above Taurus. I've actually been required to use them in training - never made it through a week with a Ruger revolver or Mini-14 that it didn't have to be replaced with a working one.

Back in the days when we ALL carried revolvers and Ruger had just started making the GP 100 I remember how we all ridiculed the only guy I ever met who carried a Ruger. I think he finally traded it off just so we'd stop making fun of him. He wasn't one of the "gun guys" in the department.

Mine served me well while I carried it. I would have been well served by carrying a 686 too. I always thought I was a gun guy, but I guess I was mistaken. Wouldn't be the first time.

legion3
01-01-2012, 17:54
Who has a Witness 10mm? Good or crap?

Witness is a decent inexpensive 10mm

They did/do have some problems with the newer models, wonder finish cracking.

http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/10mm-Witness-Wonderfinish-t81791.html

http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/Eaa-Witness-Compact-Cr-t99696.html

And a jamming problem on this one

http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/EAA-Witness-jams-t109641.html

A feeding problem

http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/EAA-Compact-10mm-Metal-t98842.html

yellolab
01-01-2012, 17:58
Who has a Witness 10mm? Good or crap?

I do. Great trigger, very accurate.
Unless I ram the mags in they occasionally drop out.

Kevin

meangreenlx50
01-01-2012, 18:00
I have a 10mm Witness and I shot it alot, I started reloading 10mm to support it. I have loaded some kinda hot rounds, but haven't really pushed it and its held up well. Mags were hard to get for a while, but I have plenty now. I've only carried it a little, but thats because I'm still working on the kydex holster I made for it. I think more 10mm would be on the market if they were a good design or offered something desirable without the high price. I have a G20 and the Witness, both were reasonably priced, I don't see why more 1911s aren't offered in 10mm at a reasonable price, the DE is nice just over priced.

Bullman
01-01-2012, 18:00
You know, I have been a 10mm fan for some time now, interest rises and falls with the times. I would think it would be more popular since it gives semi auto pistol shooters a magnum level cartridge to play with. The ammo industry has hobbled the round by not loading it to potential so the only real way to explore it's potential is to handload, or buy off the internet from a company considered to be "boutique".

Then there are the companies who "try" to come up with new pistols. Vltor has been promising us the latest version of the Bren Ten. You know they had to sink a ton of money into R&D and also purchasing the rights to the name, yet where is the pistol? Some of the die hard fans have been strung along so much with that one I don't know that they would buy one now if it did hit the market. Times have changed too, about the only machined metal pistol that has a strong market is the 1911, most everyone else who is mainstream big in the market is polymer now. Is an expensive machined metal frame pistol going to be viable in todays market of inexpensive polymer wonder pistols?

I am a fanboy, but I just don't see my favorite caliber growing enough to become a major blip in the gun market.

carbuncle
01-01-2012, 18:33
Thanks for the feedback on the Witness 10mm, sounds like one might need to get added to my list...

legion3
01-01-2012, 18:45
Thanks for the feedback on the Witness 10mm, sounds like one might need to get added to my list...

It appears that you should avoid the newer rounded slides with the wonder finish and all the compacts, reading up on it the compact EAA witnesses have way to much hit and miss reliability which the full size guns don't.

Also in one of the links there is a discussion if the Witness can take full power loads of 10mm or not. Or full pressure loads. Or +P loads...is there a +p 10mm load?

It appears the elite version is the best compared to the standard.

I think a used Smith 10xx series might be a better non-1911 choice but the prices have gone up on those and as I posted the letter earlier not that many were made.

method
01-01-2012, 18:50
Here's what I want. A little pricey though.

http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/8325/pix430726782.jpg

...and no, 10mm is not on any sort of rise, like has been said, all one has to do is look at the limited offerings in guns and ammo.

Bob Hafler
01-01-2012, 18:54
Can't say I know anyone that owns a 10mm pistol. I believe most of the guys I know take shot placement more seriously then caliber.

legion3
01-01-2012, 19:04
Here's what I want. A little pricey though.

http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/8325/pix430726782.jpg

...and no, 10mm is not on any sort of rise, like has been said, all one has to do is look at the limited offerings in guns and ammo.

Who actually currently makes a 10mm platform?

Glock 20/29
Colt DE 1911
EAA Witness
Kimber 1911
Dan Wesson 1911
Fusion 1911
Smith 610
Sphinx 3000

Am I missing any?

method
01-01-2012, 19:36
Representing just 3 semi auto designs, and one revolver. A shrouded hammer snub nose in 10mm would be awesome.

alwaysshootin
01-01-2012, 19:40
Who actually currently makes a 10mm platform?

Glock 20/29
Colt DE 1911
EAA Witness
Kimber 1911
Dan Wesson 1911
Fusion 1911
Smith 610
Sphinx 3000

Am I missing any?

Yes! Bond Arms.

Bullman
01-01-2012, 19:46
Thompson Center may still chamber a 10mm, Mech Tech, while not a gun maker per se manufactures one of their CCU units in 10mm, and Olympic used to make a 10mm upper for the AR 15.

GlockFish
01-01-2012, 19:53
I want a Ruger GP100 & SP101 in 10mm.

:rofl: I wouldn't carry a Ruger revolver if it was free, but I'd like to have a S&W 610 if I ever found one at the right price. My only current 10mm is a Colt Delta Elite.

I probably should have advertised on here when I let my S&W 1076 with Kentucky State POlice shoulder patch etched on the slide go for under $500 a while back.

And why is that?

Poor quality, disguised by unnecessary weight that makes it feel like it's built solid. They break a lot more than S&W. I rate them equal or a hair above Taurus. I've actually been required to use them in training - never made it through a week with a Ruger revolver or Mini-14 that it didn't have to be replaced with a working one.

Back in the days when we ALL carried revolvers and Ruger had just started making the GP 100 I remember how we all ridiculed the only guy I ever met who carried a Ruger. I think he finally traded it off just so we'd stop making fun of him. He wasn't one of the "gun guys" in the department.

:rofl:

Mine served me well while I carried it.

I better roll up my 5.11 tactical pant legs, it's getting deep in here.
I agree with WiskyT & Bullman.... And the millions of other Ruger revolver owners who know Ruger makes a good, strong, tank of a gun.
Sounds like you're just a Ruger hater, S&W Fan-boy.

:rofl:

deadite
01-01-2012, 21:14
Can't say I know anyone that owns a 10mm pistol. I believe most of the guys I know take shot placement more seriously then caliber.

It's too bad. If you knew someone who had one they may have let you try and shoot theirs. Then, you'd know how flat a trajectory the 10mm has and how accurate they can be. My 10mm's are more accurate than my 45ACP's.

Sorry, not jumping on the hate wagon.

deadite

deadite
01-01-2012, 21:19
Who actually currently makes a 10mm platform?

Glock 20/29
Colt DE 1911
EAA Witness
Kimber 1911
Dan Wesson 1911
Fusion 1911
Smith 610
Sphinx 3000

Am I missing any?

Yes! Bond Arms.

Thompson Center may still chamber a 10mm, Mech Tech, while not a gun maker per se manufactures one of their CCU units in 10mm, and Olympic used to make a 10mm upper for the AR 15.

+ Wilson Combat, Nighthawk Custom and Ed Brown used to.

deadite

10mm Sonny
01-01-2012, 21:45
10mm wish list

S&W 10xx double stack
S&W M&P-10
SA XDm-10
H&K HK-10

Bullman
01-01-2012, 21:50
I kind of had a wish to convert my 4516 to 10mm, and I thought I had found a guy to make the barrel, but I will get an e mail reply, and then not hear from the dude for a few months. I am about to give up, just get me a Glock 29 and be done with it. I might send the 4516 back to Smith and have some work done to it, maybe convert it to DAO, but I think I will just leave it as a 45.

carbuncle
01-01-2012, 22:35
I think a used Smith 10xx series might be a better non-1911 choice but the prices have gone up on those and as I posted the letter earlier not that many were made.

Oh, there's a 1006 on the list already!

PrecisionRifleman
01-01-2012, 23:34
Can't say I know anyone that owns a 10mm pistol. I believe most of the guys I know take shot placement more seriously then caliber.

My G20SF is very accurate, and I can easily do rapid fire with warm handloads. It's all about practice...

CajunBass
01-02-2012, 02:45
seems to me that 10mm is on the rise. What would you guess would be the next gun manufacture to produce another 10mm?

I thought y'all were still waiting on the Bren 10? I remember back when that was going to set the world on fire.

legion3
01-02-2012, 05:06
I thought y'all were still waiting on the Bren 10? I remember back when that was going to set the world on fire.

Do you mean back in 1984? Or the recent Vltor mess?

I remember the 1984 hype.

I know it seems like I am anti-10mm, not so, I was one of its earliest supporters.

At one time I owned a 1006, 1066, 1076 FBI, Glock 20, Glock 29, Star Megastar, Wyoming Arms and a Bren Ten special Forces Dark.

Both the 1066 and the Glock 29 were my EDC for quite some time in the 90's.

But the round never became what many of us hoped for but it does have many uses. If I still lived out west or in Alaska I would still have at least one 10mm but no need here in Florida for such a big gun.

And it certainly is not on the rise.

legion3
01-02-2012, 05:09
10mm wish list

S&W 10xx double stack
S&W M&P-10
SA XDm-10
H&K HK-10

Get a 1006 and be good with that.

or I still say get a

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x49/roman3/600px-MV-BRE10-10.jpg

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x49/roman3/600px-MV-BRE10-11.jpg

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x49/roman3/600px-MV-BRE10-5.jpg

faawrenchbndr
01-02-2012, 05:09
10mm may not be on the rise,.....but is sure isn't on the decline!

Bob Hafler
01-02-2012, 06:10
Dead is dead. A well placed shot and it really doesn't make a difference if it's a 9MM, 40 cal., 45 acp., or a 10mm. Really don't buy into that my pistol is bigger than yours. Then again I'm just the average person who likes to keep things real.

Oh and just for the record I never said a 10mm wasn't accurate. Just implied it's not needed for the person who can place a round accurately.

Bullman
01-02-2012, 06:38
Do you mean back in 1984? Or the recent Vltor mess?

I remember the 1984 hype.

I know it seems like I am anti-10mm, not so, I was one of its earliest supporters.

At one time I owned a 1006, 1066, 1076 FBI, Glock 20, Glock 29, Star Megastar, Wyoming Arms and a Bren Ten special Forces Dark.

Both the 1066 and the Glock 29 were my EDC for quite some time in the 90's.

But the round never became what many of us hoped for but it does have many uses. If I still lived out west or in Alaska I would still have at least one 10mm but no need here in Florida for such a big gun.

And it certainly is not on the rise.

Are you saying you got rid of those?, I feel bad for letting loose of my Delta Elite and 1076, I would probably be suicidal if I had sold a Megastar and a Bren Ten.

WiskyT
01-02-2012, 07:45
Dead is dead. A well placed shot and it really doesn't make a difference if it's a 9MM, 40 cal., 45 acp., or a 10mm. Really don't buy into that my pistol is bigger than yours. Then again I'm just the average person who likes to keep things real.

Oh and just for the record I never said a 10mm wasn't accurate. Just implied it's not needed for the person who can place a round accurately.

I agree with you for self defense, which is what my handguns are for. For hunting, the 10mm is a pretty impressive round. But for handgun hunting six shots are plenty and most handgun hunters probably just use 44 mag.

The 10mm has impressive ballistics, but the guns it's offered in are combat type guns. Hunting type guns are offered in more impressive calibers.

legion3
01-02-2012, 09:31
Are you saying you got rid of those?, I feel bad for letting loose of my Delta Elite and 1076, I would probably be suicidal if I had sold a Megastar and a Bren Ten.

Yep they are all gone.

The Bren Ten Special forces dark was the only Bren I could find I could afford at the time. It made a very tidy profit.

And the Star was a beast of a gun and mags were impossible to find or afford.
Both it and the 1076 got into 20+ people bidding wars on GB and also provided really good profits.

Almost all were sold online as no one around here or in Maine where I was living during my 10mm days had any interest in 10mm's.

I moved passed the 10mm as it really offered nothing I needed that other more affordable and carryable guns could not.

legion3
01-02-2012, 09:33
I agree with you for self defense, which is what my handguns are for. For hunting, the 10mm is a pretty impressive round. But for handgun hunting six shots are plenty and most handgun hunters probably just use 44 mag.

The 10mm has impressive ballistics, but the guns it's offered in are combat type guns. Hunting type guns are offered in more impressive calibers.

The 10mm is an excellent backpacking and woods gun, the glock 20 is light and with good capacity. It can handle most 4 legged and 2 legged critters you are likely to find in most woods...not all but most.

However while I was stationed in Alaska I carried a ruger Vaquero 7.5 inch stainless 44 mag on my hip or in my pack. Beautiful gun and solid as a tank.
Don't tell Bren :whistling:

blastfact
01-02-2012, 11:25
Took the wife out the other day to shoot the G20. She is now ready for her own G29.

cablecutter
01-03-2012, 11:01
Took the wife out the other day to shoot the G20. She is now ready for her own G29.

Now that is what I like to hear!!!:cool:

ohio glock guy
05-04-2012, 20:14
taurus. on the tracker frame series,or the rageing hunter series

diamondd2
05-04-2012, 20:30
seems to me that 10mm is on the rise. What would you guess would be the next gun manufacture to produce another 10mm?


Ill bet not one manufacture comes out with a new 10mm.

How many people do think go walking in the woods on a daily basis? Because this is the only argument I see for the 10mm.

Wyoming
05-04-2012, 20:54
10mm sucks!

"Get a rope":steamed:



:rofl:

ohio glock guy
05-04-2012, 21:00
You need a rope for?

alwaysshootin
05-04-2012, 21:09
Ill bet not one manufacture comes out with a new 10mm.

I'll take that bet! How much?

diamondd2
05-05-2012, 04:49
I'll take that bet! How much?


$5

But Glock coming out with a Gen4 G20 dosen't count.

Just to clarify. I meant no manufacturer who does not already have a 10mm will design and introduce one.

alwaysshootin
05-05-2012, 12:49
$5

But Glock coming out with a Gen4 G20 dosen't count.

Just to clarify. I meant no manufacturer who does not already have a 10mm will design and introduce one.

Wow, that really changes the bet, considerably, don't it!:upeyes:

diamondd2
05-05-2012, 13:52
Wow, that really changes the bet, considerably, don't it!:upeyes:

Well a Gen 4 G20 dosent count because all that is, is a Gen4 G21 with 10mm barrel.

M&P, Springfield, Ruger, Beretta, etc will not be designing and introducing a new 10mm pistol.

Heck, M&P already discontinued the 357 sig.

countrygun
05-05-2012, 14:17
Since this necrothread has arisen from the grave I might as well chime in with my .02.

There is an inescapable parallel betwenn the 10mm and the .41 mag, not just on the bore diameter similarity, although that is a part, but in the concept of a "niche" round.
I have 3 .41s and I reload for the round. I have also been shooting the 10mm for about a dozen years now, starting with a Witness and having just acquired a G20sf. Neither of the two rounds are going away but neither is about to be "rediscovered" the facts are out there and the general shooting public is/are rather blase' about them. For that reason the factories have no real incentive to ramp it up in production and without the increased production not enough shooters will be exposed. My LGS does a pretty good business and they order quite a few Glocks in 10mm. Seems as though a lot of folks think highly of the versatility in this area. despite this the LGS only has 3 boxes of ammo on the shelf at this moment because most of the shooters are reloaders or order their own. This leads me to the conclusion that, the 10mm just doesn't appeal to the "over the counter" consumer. Since Bill Ruger designed his first semi auto centerfire to house the 10mm, but that was not to be and it became a massively "overdesigned" .45 there "might" exist the possibility of it re-emerging as a 10mm, (very doubtful) but I don't see a new pistol being designed for a round that is still a "cult" specialty. The round tends to generate a bit of havoc in whichever existing platform it's put in and I can't help but wonder how the Ruger design would have held up.

svtpwnz
05-05-2012, 14:27
I'd make love to a P30 in 10mm or a p2000sk in 10mm

Or better yet a HK 10c off the 45c platform. :wow: Oh what a little slice of heaven that would be.

alwaysshootin
05-05-2012, 14:40
Well a Gen 4 G20 dosent count because all that is, is a Gen4 G21 with 10mm barrel.

Guess you aren't aware of the differences in the 20, and 21. There is more to it than a barrel swap. The fact, that all others, who claim the 4th Gen in other models, is a change from the 3rd Gen, would in fact, make the 4th Gen intro of the 10MM model, a "New" introduction.

With Ruger sales rising 400% over the previous years sales, you are correct, they have no reason to introduce a 10. Nor does any of the other manufactures, you have listed. Not until sales come back to reality, will they see a need, to make new offerings, to generate sales figures. I can also say, and not that it matters, to anyone, is, all the manufactures you mentioned will not sell me another 9, or 40, or 45! Those have been covered. Over, and over, and over again. Ruger, if you want to sell me another firearm, it had better be something in 10MM. A single action, carbine, P-Series, matters not. If it's not in 10, I'm not interested. Same goes with Sig, H&K, M&P, on, and on. Again, I know it matters to no one. Just imagine if there are, I don't know, maybe 10 thousand firearm enthusiasts that feel like I do. Don't want, or need a 4th, or 5th, 9MM, and sales, become lack luster at, let's say Ruger. All of a sudden some high ranking sales figure, decides to come up with a new "10 SERIES" lineup. How about a SP-10, Blackhawk 10MM, DEERCAMP 10, and lastly a beefed up P-Series 10? Think Rugers sales would go up? I believe so!

AK_Stick
05-05-2012, 15:40
Didn't Colt just release the Delta Elite again?


10mm's are growing in popularity, albeit slowly, and it will never be ultra popular because of what it is.

fnfalman
05-05-2012, 15:43
Smith&Wesson recently reintroduced the SW 610.

diamondd2
05-05-2012, 16:17
Guess you aren't aware of the differences in the 20, and 21. There is more to it than a barrel swap. The fact, that all others, who claim the 4th Gen in other models, is a change from the 3rd Gen, would in fact, make the 4th Gen intro of the 10MM model, a "New" introduction.




Your right, it does need a new slide also. The breech face is a different size and would require a smaller drill bit to cut. But the frame is exactly the same as the G21 frame, which is already in prduction.

mrsurfboard
05-05-2012, 16:25
seems to me that 10mm is on the rise.

:rofl: Yeah, that and the GAP :rofl:

alwaysshootin
05-05-2012, 16:41
Your right, it does need a new slide also. The breech face is a different size and would require a smaller drill bit to cut. But the frame is exactly the same as the G21 frame, which is already in prduction.

So you agree, when the 4th Gen 20, hits the market, it will be a new, 10MM offering, and that doesn't count? Correct?

Have heard about the Delta, and 610, but realistically, what I would like to see is a firearm more in the $500 range for an auto, or revolver. Have no desire for paying close to twice that amount. No matter who's name is on it!

Jade Falcon
05-05-2012, 18:29
Springfield XDM in 10mm. :steamed:

THIS! Give me a 5" barreled XDm in 10mm, and I'd be a happy guy!

countrygun
05-05-2012, 18:41
THIS! Give me a 5" barreled XDm in 10mm, and I'd be a happy guy!


I'll join that crowd. The closest I've been able to come for my XDM is a well known 'smith offering to see if he could drum up a barrel in .400 Cor-Bon

Bullman
05-05-2012, 22:58
I think it would be nice if VLTOR could finally make the Bren Ten happen again, but it appears to be vapor ware.:sad:

Gary1911A1
05-06-2012, 08:12
I think it would be nice if VLTOR could finally make the Bren Ten happen again, but it appears to be vapor ware.:sad:

Me too. I want one as you can likely guess from my Avatar.:supergrin: If they do I'll certainly buy one.

There was going to be another 10MM imported from Turkey by EEA, but it's up in the air right now although EEA had this at the last NRA Meeting: 2012 NRA Annual Meetings: EAA Corp SAR ST 10 - YouTube :dunno:

Wyoming
05-06-2012, 10:00
Smith&Wesson recently reintroduced the SW 610.

Is that the Night Guard or 610?

I will keep an eye out for one. The used ones bring a large premium on GB.

10 mm must be on the rise. I didn't own one a two years ago and now have three.

I didn't have to fill out any paper work to own "destructive device".:whistling:

leadslinger13
06-23-2012, 19:27
I would like to see a ruger redhawk in 10mm with 4 5/8 barrel .... sweet!!!!!....Ok i would settle for the 5.5 or 6 inch barrel...LOL

I can't seem to find a redhawk in 45 long colt. Anyone???

fnfalman
06-23-2012, 19:40
I missed the Blackhawk Convertible 10mm by THAT much at the local gun shop. Argh!!!!

bac1023
06-23-2012, 20:12
I think it would be nice if VLTOR could finally make the Bren Ten happen again, but it appears to be vapor ware.:sad:

I'm not holding my breath.

oldman11
06-23-2012, 20:42
Don't yell at here, but these gelatin tests show the 10mm not being that much better then a .45 acp. Could this be why the 10mm isn't popular? All that additional recoil and muzzle blast for little performance increase? Yes, I understand it's only 1 load.
.45 acp http://brassfetcher.com/FlyingAshtray.html
10mm http://brassfetcher.com/10mmAuto180grRemJHP.html
A 10mm is slightly stronger than a 357 magnum. That is a fact! I can make a gelatin test show anything that I want. The reason that most LEA's, including the FBI quit using the 10mm and 357 mag is because not all of their people could handle them. That and a little worry about over penetration. It is a powerful round and a lot of people have graduated to using them as a hunting round.

method
06-23-2012, 20:51
I would like to see a ruger redhawk in 10mm with 4 5/8 barrel .... sweet!!!!!....Ok i would settle for the 5.5 or 6 inch barrel...LOL

I can't seem to find a redhawk in 45 long colt. Anyone???

Didn't look too hard, huh?
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=292895430

Bullman
06-24-2012, 10:19
I think the reason that law enforcement agencies went to lighter rounds is because of the platform change. In the 80s they all started to change over from revolvers to semi autos. At the time of the change the fashonable round to change to was either 9mm or .45. There has and always will be a limited choice of pistols available in 10mm and unless there is a lot of choice it probably isn't going to get picked.

I know in my experience, when the revolver was king, the magnum rounds were chosen because it was what was popular. Also, government is going to be driven by cost too. they aren't going to be to keen to shell out a lot of extra dough for 10mm when 9, 40, and 45 are cheaper. I just don't think it is so much of a recoil issue as it is made out to be.

Rustin
06-24-2012, 10:38
M&P with a 6" bbl!

bmoore
06-24-2012, 10:43
M&P with a 6" bbl!

A 5" M&P 10 would be a show stopper. I love my G20 but I just picked up my M&P40/357sig yesterday, wow- just incredible. Love the 10mm round.

bmoore
06-24-2012, 10:47
A 10mm is slightly stronger than a 357 magnum. That is a fact! I can make a gelatin test show anything that I want. The reason that most LEA's, including the FBI quit using the 10mm and 357 mag is because not all of their people could handle them. That and a little worry about over penetration. It is a powerful round and a lot of people have graduated to using them as a hunting round.

I am a huge 10mm fan. You may be under estimating a hand loaded 357 mag. 125 grains spooled up around 1800fps out of a 6" barrel is possible. Almost 900ft/lbs.

oldman11
06-24-2012, 12:13
I am a huge 10mm fan. You may be under estimating a hand loaded 357 mag. 125 grains spooled up around 1800fps out of a 6" barrel is possible. Almost 900ft/lbs.
Lets compare apples to apples, OK? 10mm doesn't even have a round a light as 125 grain. I'm not knocking .357, and I'm not talking about beefing up hand loads, which is a lot harder to do for a pistol than a revolver. Now using the same weight bullets (180 grain), 357mag=1300fps, 10mm=1337fps. That's pretty close to the same with a very slight edge to 10mm. And 10mm is a larger diameter, like .043 larger.

Glockster17
06-24-2012, 14:12
I would love to see 10mm ammo at Walmart... lol. I would have to say a 5.25 XDm would be pretty cool in the 10. Also, any M&P would be great. I own a G20 and love the gun, but 10mm ammo is $$ compared to what I usually shoot. I have a 10mm Short conversion barrel (that is a .40 S&W) that I use some. Thinking about ordering a .357 sig barrel as well. Love it or hate it, you gotta respect the 10mm.

TDC20
06-24-2012, 14:15
I am a huge 10mm fan. You may be under estimating a hand loaded 357 mag. 125 grains spooled up around 1800fps out of a 6" barrel is possible. Almost 900ft/lbs.
I have a safe* handload for the 135gr Nosler bullets that averages 1718fps out of an aftermarket 6" bbl. in my G20 That's 885ft-lbs. Others have loaded them hotter than 900ft-lbs. The .357 vs. 10mm ballistics debate is really a tit-for-tat comparison game, IMHO. You have to keep the barrel lengths the same for any comparison. Personally, I don't see enough difference to take either side as being significantly better, though one has a slight edge. :whistling:

So which gun would I rather carry IWB with the same length barrel, a G20 or G29, or similar barrel length .357 mag. revolver? I'll take one of the (15+1 or 10+1) Glocks, thank you very much! But that's my preference. To each his own.

The 10mm fan base is solid and seems to be growing to me. I base that on how fast they sell what few available new 10mm's are brought to market. The handloading and custom ammo and internet ammo sales hurts the local stores in stocking ammo, since most of those big mfg's water down their loads anyway. Wally world stocks almost nothing (not just gun related) in their stores that doesn't move well. It's a retail model with some merit and seems to keep getting more and more popular in the US. I think it's a mistake to equate that retail model for the assumption that the 10mm guns and ammo don't have a significant market presence. I would love to see how many 10mm's Glock ships a year, and whether that has been trending upwards recently. My guess is that it has been trending up, and fairly significantly.

I have to agree with what has been posted earlier on this thread, though. There isn't a sound business case for gun makers to introduce new 10mm models to cater to what is, in reality at this time, a 10mm niche market. The sad fact is that business decisions are made based on return on investment, and at this point, it's highly questionable whether that's a good bet or not. The consensus amongst gun makers would appear to be "not" at this time. :crying:

*Safe in my gun with my handloads. YMMV.

AK_Stick
06-24-2012, 14:22
Lets compare apples to apples, OK? 10mm doesn't even have a round a light as 125 grain. I'm not knocking .357, and I'm not talking about beefing up hand loads, which is a lot harder to do for a pistol than a revolver. Now using the same weight bullets (180 grain), 357mag=1300fps, 10mm=1337fps. That's pretty close to the same with a very slight edge to 10mm. And 10mm is a larger diameter, like .043 larger.


I've got a 180 grain 357 load at 1,400 fps. So its slightly edging that 10mm load. FYI this is not a handload either.

Apples to apples, the 10mm, is generally slightly behind the 357. Now, the advantage is, IMO insignificant in the comparison, as I doubt any animal or human is going to tell the difference. Much like the 10mm is slightly bigger, but again, nothing will ever know the difference.

Yes, in some particular guns, you can load a round hotter and still be safe, but this applies to revolvers as well.

grizman
06-24-2012, 14:43
[QUOTE=diamondd2;18931530]Well a Gen 4 G20 dosent count because all that is, is a Gen4 G21 with 10mm barrel.

You could not be more wrong! Glock models go in order of Gaston Glocks patent/design order. The 20 came first the design was modified to a 45 acp and became Glocks 21st patent.

Further more the slides are different in weight, g20 is heavier, breach face dimentions are different, extractor is different. Yeah you can run a conversion barrel in a G21 to shoot 10mm with a modified extractor and different mags.

Wyoming
06-24-2012, 15:31
[QUOTE=diamondd2;18931530]Well a Gen 4 G20 dosent count because all that is, is a Gen4 G21 with 10mm barrel.

You could not be more wrong! Glock models go in order of Gaston Glocks patent/design order. The 20 came first the design was modified to a 45 acp and became Glocks 21st patent.

Further more the slides are different in weight, g20 is heavier, breach face dimentions are different, extractor is different. Yeah you can run a conversion barrel in a G21 to shoot 10mm with a modified extractor and different mags.

He is right.

I have a Glock 16. That right a Glock 16! it came out before the famous Glock 17 that everyone thinks started it all. Wrong!!!!!

I carry my Glock 16 concealed in my 4X4 truck. You never know when a person may need the use of a Glock.

If I ever get stuck that little shovel will come in handy! :rofl:

bmoore
06-24-2012, 15:47
I understand what you guys are saying. As I said before I am a 10mm fan, I reload for my G20. I also reload for my GP100 357 mag. Some people are very quick to say that a 10mm is beyond a 357, and thats just not so. When both rounds are handloaded it gets very close. That being said, 15+1 of 10mm in a service size autoloading pistol is IMHO pretty difficult to beat.

pck50
06-24-2012, 16:18
H&k ! Please

4949shooter
06-24-2012, 16:48
H&k ! Please

A USP in 10mm would be nice.

10mm? I think it is slightly gaining in popularity. This shouldn't be overestimated though. A few guys at work have bought 10mm's. One a blued Delta Elite, another a G20, another a G29, and another plans on buying a 20 and 29. One of our civilian armorers also has a G20SF.

5 years ago you never heard of ANYONE in my LE agency buying a ten, although thankfully they have been on our approved list of off duty calibers/weapons.

Gary1911A1
06-25-2012, 09:02
A USP in 10mm would be nice.

10mm? I think it is slightly gaining in popularity. This shouldn't be overestimated though. A few guys at work have bought 10mm's. One a blued Delta Elite, another a G20, another a G29, and another plans on buying a 20 and 29. One of our civilian armorers also has a G20SF.

5 years ago you never heard of ANYONE in my LE agency buying a ten, although thankfully they have been on our approved list of off duty calibers/weapons.

There was a guy named Big Chris on the HK Pro Forum who was converting the USP in .40 into 10MM using STI Magazines that fit the maxwell of the USP. I thought about it, but never did it. He even posted a YouTube video of him shooting one.

.45Super-Man
06-25-2012, 10:30
The 10mm is the parent cartridge of the .40, 357SIG and the 9x25 Dillon. The 10 really changed our perception of the modern service pistol and its limits, by being the first commercially available service auto to combine magnum ballistics with the advantage of the auto. Unfortunately, the cartridge wont gain much ground in popularity until more mfgrs begin to chamber their pre existing, plastic autos in 10mm and without a major overhaul, most of these designs simply wont tolerate a steady diet of Norma spec 10mm. However, I suspect the USP45 and FNP45 would be good candidates .

fnfalman
06-25-2012, 12:13
I believe that Bruce Gray converts steel-framed P220 to 10mm as well.

4949shooter
06-25-2012, 15:18
There was a guy named Big Chris on the HK Pro Forum who was converting the USP in .40 into 10MM using STI Magazines that fit the maxwell of the USP. I thought about it, but never did it. He even posted a YouTube video of him shooting one.

Interesting..

Gary1911A1
06-26-2012, 17:36
Here's a link to more info and a video. I'm not sure if Big Chris is doing these anymore, but other pistolsmiths might be willing to do the conversion.
http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-handgun-talk/48050-10mm-tactical-video.html

damnyankee20
06-26-2012, 18:15
There are some die-hard 10mm fans out there, and I'm not trying to be a wiseguy when I ask this, but what signs tell you that the popularity of that caliber is on the rise?

Because I just bought another Glock 20. :supergrin:

pck50
06-26-2012, 20:41
Its quite Elementary young man everyone is getting one in fact im looking forward to get a new Gen 4 Glock 20 myself as well.





Because I just bought another Glock 20. :supergrin:

PimpStick
06-26-2012, 21:43
It's because of the link I posted to that kid's 10mm video. :rofl:

Here is a link to a pretty recent video over at Gun Blast all about 10mm for you guys:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-ClEZPs8os

If the 10mm following is a "cult following," I'm drinking the Kool-Aid (ok, it was actually Flavor-Aid)...

Any time I OWB conceal carry, it's my 29. And if anyone comes out with a quality sub-compact 10mm, it will be my daily carry.

bigchuck83
06-26-2012, 22:05
you mean 10mm is getting more popular, dang i thought i was being different when i bought a G20sf a week ago. oh well

Turk40SW
06-27-2012, 13:12
Well, whether or not its getting more popular where you are, I've done my share of converting. I've converted my entire family into shooting 10mm, as well as most of my friends. I'm currently working on my fire station. I have probably helped sell about 20 10mm's just in my circle of friends and family.

Our wal-mart has winchester white box in 10mm on the shelf from time to time.

Every gun show I've ever been to in the last decade had at least a dozen 10mm's for sale.

It isn't losing any ground. Who knows if its growing or not. Its all I shoot. I've sold everything else off. And i'm going to have a 10mm upper made for my AR SBR.

Having 5k rounds helps though.

fnfalman
06-27-2012, 15:43
A couple of local gun shops in Los Angeles load their own 10mm ball ammo and sell at very decent prices: LAX Firing Range and Ammo Brothers.