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Outer Rondacker
12-30-2011, 06:59
Hi I am new to Glock Talk. I have read many of the posts here and spend a large amount of time reading befor I decided to join up. I am looking to reload 45 GAP rounds and there does not seam to much info out there. If anyone has experience doing this round I would like some advice. Keep in mind I am new to reloading in general. I have found a RCBS Rock Chucker press with powder chager, scale and a few sets of dies. 45 long colt 357, and a bunch of other things for 120 bucks. Not sure if I should do this or get a new one but I figured keep it cheap at first and see if I even like doing this. The rounds would be shot out of a Glock 37. If you are reloading this round and would not mind tossing some info this way to help a newb out that would be great. Thanks in advance.

IndyGunFreak
12-30-2011, 07:06
Assuming all that stuff is RCBS, and is in pretty good shape, that's a pretty good deal. The RCBS Rock Chucker is generally considered one of the better single stage presses. On a single stage, once you're in the groove, you'll probably do about 75-100rds an hour. So the other question is, how much do you shoot? (keep in mind, you'll shoot more once you start reloading)...

You might consider reading Colorado4Wheel's sticky and see if you can glean some info from there..

Good luck

Hoser
12-30-2011, 08:56
It is an easy caliber to reload.

Stick with 185-200 gn bullets. Jacketed if you can afford it.

ron59
12-30-2011, 09:00
Reloading it won't be any different that reloading any of the other pistol caliber stuff. Same exact process. All you'll need to determine is the bullet choice, then an appropriate powder and load. I'd advise going with a powder that fills the case as much as possible while you're learning.

meleors
12-30-2011, 09:50
I am looking to reload 45 GAP rounds
Yep. You definitely need help. Anyone who chooses 45gap needs help. :whistling:


Just Kidding. :tongueout: Good luck, stay safe and welcome to Glock Talk!

F106 Fan
12-30-2011, 10:24
I have found a RCBS Rock Chucker press with powder chager, scale and a few sets of dies. 45 long colt 357, and a bunch of other things for 120 bucks. Not sure if I should do this or get a new one but I figured keep it cheap at first and see if I even like doing this. The rounds would be shot out of a Glock 37.

This whole reloading thing is really about volume. How much do you plan to shoot?

Thinking in terms of only bulk pistol reloading here's how I see it:

If you shoot a thousand rounds per year or less, reloading probably isn't worth the hassle. You're going to produce ammo for about 1/2 the cost of store-bought so if you buy Federal Champion at $360/1000 the most you will save is $180 per year. Your first year savings will get eaten up just getting started.

The good news is that 1000 rounds per year is doable on a single stage press. Boring and tedious to be sure, but doable.

If you shoot a few thousand rounds per year, you could get the savings up into the $1000/year range (what an insane amount of money to spend on ammo!). But you almost certainly don't want to load this volume on a single stage press. The savings are so significant that you can avoid the single stage purchase and just move on to a progressive press of some kind. If you are going to load just one caliber, the Dillon Square Deal might be an economic alternative although the higher end machines like the 550B and XL650 are more flexible and would be better choices. But none of them sell for $120 either.

Reloading bulk pistol on a single stage press is grim. You MIGHT get 100 rounds per hour or you might not. In my view, it is frustrating beyond endurance. I suppose that is why I only did it for a week or so before I moved to a faster press.

I do use a single stage press for precision rifle reloading. But 50 rounds of high quality rifle ammo might last a while. Fifty rounds of pistol ammo is gone in a few minutes. A good single stage press is a nice thing to have around. I have two versions of RCBS single stage presses - but I don't load pistol on either one.

So, how much do you plan to shoot?

Richard

F106 Fan
12-30-2011, 10:35
Here is a video on the very basics of reloading. I really enjoy Hickok45's shooting videos and now I see he has a few about reloading.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irC3NuIKDm4&feature=relmfu

I haven't actually watched the entire video but then I have been reloading for a very long time. The lead-in shows the entire process from picking up the brass to placing a reloaded shell in a magazine.

Richard

ron59
12-30-2011, 10:57
Not sure if I should do this or get a new one but I figured keep it cheap at first and see if I even like doing this.

Part of your "not liking it", might be due to how much work it will take to make 100 rounds. As somebody else said... with a single stage it might take close to an hour to make 100 rounds.

With my 650, 100 rounds is doable in 5 minutes.

If you're not shooting much, a single stage is the way to go. I got into reloading because I was shooting competitively, was practicing alot, and needed ammo. A progressive is the way to go if you want to *produce* ammo, not just spend time reloading.

oldsoldier
12-30-2011, 11:04
You can get some load information here. http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

I loaded a few thousand GAP rounds when I had a G39. I found that 185g jacketed bullets and Hodgdon Universal made for a nice shooting load with reasonable velocity. W231/HP38 and 185g jacketed bullets worked fine for target shooting with mid power loads. I could not get 200g bullets to come anywhere near published velocities without signs of overpressure. This occured before reaching maximum published loads of various powders. I stuck with the 185g bullets. I no longer own any GAP caliber pistols and I lost the reloading records so I can't be more specific.

F106 Fan
12-30-2011, 11:13
A progressive is the way to go if you want to *produce* ammo, not just spend time reloading.

I totally agree... That quote belongs in a signature line!

Richard

Outer Rondacker
12-30-2011, 15:24
Wow I belong to many different forums for many different things and I hardly ever get great response like this. I would like to say thanks for replying. Well I have not brought home the 45 gap yet due to the wait in my area but I will say this I shot alot. I have a rifle that shoots 45 acp so I would reload this aswell. I didnt see anyone recomend a Hornady LNL AP is that becuase there no good or just not liked or what. I have not watched the links yet but will do so now. Thanks again to eveyone who responded.

GioaJack
12-30-2011, 15:39
How come you didn't spend the extra two bucks and get the rest of the caliber? :whistling:


Jack

sig357fan
12-30-2011, 16:10
How come you didn't spend the extra two bucks and get the rest of the caliber? :whistling:


Jack


well....it's official……if Jack takes a poke at ya, your part of the crew!

Welcome to the best (imho) reloading forum known to modern man!

sig357fan

F106 Fan
12-30-2011, 16:51
I didnt see anyone recomend a Hornady LNL AP is that becuase there no good or just not liked or what. I have not watched the links yet but will do so now. Thanks again to eveyone who responded.

I don't get the sense that the LNL AP is highly regarded on this forum. It could be that once you get to that price range, the Dillon 550B or XL650 are just considered better equipment.

For the case of the Dillon 550, the caliber change kit and the dies are identical between .45 GAP and .45 ACP. So, at most, the bullet seating die and the powder measure need to be adjusted when changing between them. Pretty simple.

You talked about shooting a lot. There is every good reason to consider the 550B but there might be an even better reason to consider moving to the XL650 with the case feeder. With that press and case feeder, you are reloading in a hurry - probably on the order of 1000 rounds per hour. You can start out without the case feeder and probably still load around 600 rounds per hour.

Whether these progressive presses are reasonable is totally a function of volume.

Richard

WiskyT
12-30-2011, 16:59
A Rock Chucker, two die sets, and a powder measure for $120 is a great deal even if you do get a progressive down the line. Basically, you'd be crazy not to get it.

Outer Rondacker
12-30-2011, 18:26
Anyone know of the 45 long colt dies will work for 45 gap reloading? I have looked at the dillon 650 and have to say it looks nice but you have to auto index it so add putting in empty shells and bullets with the indexing I cant see where this is very productive. When I think of progessive I think of auto indexing. Sorry just how I see it. Oh and Jack thanks for the welcome I came across the Gap round by chance and the price was rite for the gun. Or atleast I think so. Shoots really nice too as well as fitting my hand well.

dbarry
12-30-2011, 18:41
I've got the G37. Love the round. I've got a 1911 too and love that platform too. Opinions on this are why forums like this were invented so let the fun begin...

Anyway, as you know, there is meager published reloading data for the GAP, compared to the ACP. I've used ACP data to create GAP loads and have not had any problems. (though this experimentation has been limited to two powders and three bullets: Bullesye & Trailboss, 185 HBRN berry's, 200 gr berry's, and 230 RN lead)

Yes, you can get enough trailboss in a 185gr Berry's HBRN (without compressing it) to cycle a G37 slide. Very nice soft shooting GSSF target round.

I'll have to get my data out, but about four and a half grains of BE works nicely with all three bullets in the G37, so that is my favorite powder for the GAP (and nearly every other pistol round I load). It gets a bad rap for KB's, but not the powder's fault. If you reload whilst distracted (bad idea), I recommend the other (trail boss) in that I dont think you can KB a gun with that.

Anyway - if you don't have a hand like hulk hogan and you have the wonderful glock platform, the GAP is awesome because the shorter case allows for smaller hands to accurately put smaller groups into targets or BG's.

If you want more info on reloading the gap, my second favorite glocktalk forum is: http://glocktalk.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=87

It doesn't have the likes of GioaJack or WiskyT but I'm hoping to hit the lottery someday and buy those guys a G37.

Happy Friday and Happy New Year!

ron59
12-30-2011, 19:08
Anyone know of the 45 long colt dies will work for 45 gap reloading? I have looked at the dillon 650 and have to say it looks nice but you have to auto index it so add putting in empty shells and bullets with the indexing I cant see where this is very productive. When I think of progessive I think of auto indexing. Sorry just how I see it. Oh and Jack thanks for the welcome I came across the Gap round by chance and the price was rite for the gun. Or atleast I think so. Shoots really nice too as well as fitting my hand well.

No, the 650 has auto indexing. It's the 550 where you have to manually index. The 550 is still WAY faster than the single stage you're looking at. With my 550, I could load 100 rounds in 10 minutes. But you have to have plenty of practice to get that time, and for me it takes too much focus.... I hate having to let go of the handle to insert a new piece of brass.

I just setup my 650 with casefeeder... just pull the handle and put a bullet on top of the charged case with left hand.... way easier.

El_Ron1
12-30-2011, 19:33
Where's garynewman?

F106 Fan
12-30-2011, 19:41
Anyone know of the 45 long colt dies will work for 45 gap reloading?

According to the Dillon website, .45 GAP/ACP is one set of dies, .45 Colt is another. It's the same story for RCBS and Hornady so I suspect they aren't at all alike.

Richard

n2extrm
12-30-2011, 19:48
A Rock Chucker, two die sets, and a powder measure for $120 is a great deal even if you do get a progressive down the line. Basically, you'd be crazy not to get it.


I have to agree with Wisky. Grab it, even if you go with a progressive later on, the RC is great to have.

Outer Rondacker
12-30-2011, 20:01
<TABLE class=pOptContainer border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD class=optOdd>.45 ACP 16926 </TD><TD class=optOdd></TD><TD class=optOdd></TD></TR><TR><TD><TABLE class=pOptContainer border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD>.45 GAP </TD><TD>11152 </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> these are the two stock numbers from the website at Dillon. I do see now where the 650 indexes with every pull just like the hornady. Well I have a stock dillon XL650 at 559.94 plus shipping and the Hornady LNL AP at 399.99 shipped with a free 150 bucks in ammo. The people on the forums say Go blue but the reviews stay go red basicly. Oh ya you guys talked me out of green LOL. I dont mind the work involved or time but I would like to put out some ammo. I am a firm on if you own a gun you need to own plenty of ammo for it.
</TD><TD></TD><TD></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

F106 Fan
12-30-2011, 20:24
I'm looking at the Dillon #14404 die set for .45ACP/GAP here:
http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/content/p/9/pid/24445/catid/4/Dillon_Carbide_Pistol_Dies__Three_Die_Sets_

Also, the caliber conversion kit for .45ACP/GAP is here:
http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/content/p/9/pid/23598/catid/2/RL_550B_Caliber_Conversion_Kit

If you look for the XL650 caliber conversion, you will see they are listed separately but have the same part number.

Now I understand why there are two separate press numbers (that are not identical): the GAP uses a small pistol primer and the ACP typically uses a large pistol primer. There is some ACP brass with small primer pockets like Blazer which is really a PITA if it gets into the case feeder on a machine set for large primers. But in this case, maybe you can find some. Then you could stay with small pistol primers. However, I don't recall ever seeing any load data for .45 ACP and small primers.

So, while the dies are the same and the caliber conversion kit is the same, you would have to interchange the primer mechanism to change calibers. I don't have an XL650 so I have no idea how involved this might be.

Personally, I have one 550B for small primer and one for large primer but I bought them many years ago when I was doing a lot of shooting.

You need to see how Hornady deals with this problem.

Richard

ron59
12-30-2011, 21:08
Ordered from Brians site, Dillon has free shipping. Also, difference between 650 and LNL is the casefeeder. The 650 is designed for the casefeeder. The LNL's casefeeder is like the 550... an afterthought that isn't trouble free. The LNL is a nice press, but I compare it to the 550 not the 650 even with the indexing difference. Manual indexing isn't the slow down, it's having to place empty case AND bullet.... that is the slowdown.

Get the LNL if you want, but it's no 650.

I've loaded on all 3. I have both Dillons, and a good shooting buddy has the LNL. I got to load some with it, and was impressed with it... I think it is a good press. If its casefeeder was designed as good as the 650s, I might've gotten one. But it's not. Basically it's an auto-indexing 550, and that doesn't impress me.

Yep, the 650 with casefeeder isn't cheap. But if you're starting to look at the higher end stuff instead of the lower end.... it's the way to go.

thorn137
12-30-2011, 21:29
Nothing to add on 45 GAP specifics ... but as to the LNL-AP: I have one, and wouldn't trade it for another press. It's very nice. :)

It's not as culty as Dillon or Lee - but trust that it's a very fine piece of equipment. Personally, I do consider it superior to the Dillon 550.

thorn

ron59
12-30-2011, 21:49
It's not as culty as Dillon or Lee - but trust that it's a very fine piece of equipment. Personally, I do consider it superior to the Dillon 550.


But that is what it has to be compared to.... not a 650.

If you think it's better than the 550, I'm assuming it's only because of the auto-indexing over the manual indexing. Bah. That doesn't slow me in the slightest. I still say that having to place an empty case AND a bullet each cycle is what slows the reloading process down, regardless of press. It's only when you add a RELIABLE, designed-in, casefeeder (which only the 650 or 1050 has) do you step it up a notch.

Colorado4Wheel
12-30-2011, 21:54
If you own a rifle a single stage makes sense otherwise I would skip it and just go with the progressive.

WiskyT
12-30-2011, 21:56
It's only when you add a RELIABLE, designed-in, casefeeder (which only the 650 or 1050 has) do you step it up a notch.

http://www.factorysales.com/graphics/shoppingcart/pro1000.jpg

ron59
12-30-2011, 22:00
http://www.factorysales.com/graphics/shoppingcart/pro1000.jpg

How is it that the Lee Pro 1000 never gets talked about in here? Certainly never discussed in the same threads as Dillons or Hornady LNLs?

Gotta be some reason, reliable casefeeder notwithstanding. :whistling:
:rofl:

Colorado4Wheel
12-30-2011, 22:01
Just be aware of the LnL is knowing to have intermittent priming issues on some presses. It happen to me and I've noticed that it happened to many other people in other forums as well. If it works you're golden if it doesn't you gonna be very frustrated. The lock and load case feeder nowhere near as good as the 650 case feeder.

WiskyT
12-30-2011, 22:02
How is it that the Lee Pro 1000 never gets talked about in here? Certainly never discussed in the same threads as Dillons or Hornady LNLs?

Gotta be some reason, reliable casefeeder notwithstanding. :whistling:
:rofl:

Snobbery?:dunno:

ron59
12-30-2011, 22:53
Snobbery?:dunno:

Does that account for the newbies who don't already have a Dillon or Hornady predisposition?

Oh.... and here's a quote from you in this thread:
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1365007

It IS fussy about things though.In that same thread (** THIS QUOTE MADE BY SOMEONE OTHER THAN WHISKY **)
Some work arounds here & there (e.g., I hand prime all cases because I found the primer feed system to be unreliable).Wow... HAND PRIMING? Let me run and and get me one of those!

No thanks. I'll stick to being a blue fan. It's a helluva lot easier in the long run to pay for quality upfront.

thorn137
12-30-2011, 23:21
But that is what it has to be compared to.... not a 650.

Well - dollar vs dollar, the LNL is certainly less expensive than the 650. And if you're wanting a progressive, and aren't interested in a case feeder one Day One - it's a lot less expensive.

If you think it's better than the 550, I'm assuming it's only because of the auto-indexing over the manual indexing.

The auto-indexing is one factor, and for me - significant. Secondly: though the 650 is said to have a better case feeder than the LNL, I've yet to hear a positive review on the 550's case feeder. Third, the LNL offers 5 stations compared to 4 on the 550. Fourth: and this is ONLY preference... I prefer a rotary powder feed to a bar system.

thorn

F106 Fan
12-30-2011, 23:24
How is it that the Lee Pro 1000 never gets talked about in here? Certainly never discussed in the same threads as Dillons or Hornady LNLs?

Gotta be some reason, reliable casefeeder notwithstanding. :whistling:
:rofl:

When I watched the Hickok45 Basic Reloading video this morning he mentioned the Lee Pro 1000. Apparently he has had a couple and isn't planning on using them again. See at 18:50 and on...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irC3NuIKDm4

He rates the Dillon as 10 times the press that the Lee Pro 1000 is.

I have never seen the Lee Pro 1000 so I have no idea what the problems have been.

Richard

bush pilot
12-30-2011, 23:33
Where's garynewman?

If I had to guess, LA? Where's Koski? He's Mr GAP.

Outer Rondacker
12-31-2011, 06:47
Ding Ding Ding thats the bell boys. HEHE I didnt mean to start a battle here. I am just looking to learn and get the best bang for the buck. I have read many many reviews on all the presses we are talking about and I have yet to find where it states I can buy the case feeder down the road for the Hornady AP. I have learned I am not a good searcher on the internet it is just a fact so with that said I do try my best. This is one reason I join forums to get real hands on answer. The way I see it if I can save 20 cents a round that is 200 dollars or more per 1000. At the current price I and some friends are paying I would be saving 30 cents a round. I own my own business and work is very slow in the winter so I have a good amount of free time on my hands. I would like to load rifle also down the road as I have many loads that the price are just off the wall to buy. So let me ask this if I buy a dilon 650 without the case feeder can I add it after words as I start to get the ball rolling? The same question goes for the LNL? Sorry unless I get to use the Lee pro 1000 befor I buy, its not even in the running IMHO. Happy New Year everyone please keep it safe but dont forget to have a good time too.

Edit. With hours of searching this morning I answered my own question on if I can add the bullet and case feeder down the road and the answer is yes.

WiskyT
12-31-2011, 07:20
Does that account for the newbies who don't already have a Dillon or Hornady predisposition?

Oh.... and here's a quote from you in this thread:
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1365007

In that same thread:
Wow... HAND PRIMING? Let me run and and get me one of those!

No thanks. I'll stick to being a blue fan. It's a helluva lot easier in the long run to pay for quality upfront.

Your post is a perfect example of the snobbery I suggested.

First, you make it seem like I am the one who hand primes off the press. You quote me in one part, and then tack on another quote making it seem like mine. If you were journalist, that would make you dishonest. Since your aren't a journalist, or a researcher etc who makes their living with words and paper, I'll just take the opportunity to make it verry clear that I DO NOT PRIME OFF THE PRESS EVER. Why don't you attribute quotes to the people they belong to next time instead of accidently putting words in my mouth?

Let's get back to the original point of my post, which you ignored, You posted that only Dillon makes a reliable case feeder. That simply isn't true. The Lee casefeeder works great, doesn't need electricty, Isn't 9 feet off the ground, and most importantly, costs probably one tenth what the Dillon one does. It does the exact same thing, just as effectively, with fewer parts, no motors to wear out, and an easier/cheaper caliber changeover routine.

WiskyT
12-31-2011, 07:39
Ding Ding Ding thats the bell boys. HEHE I didnt mean to start a battle here. I am just looking to learn and get the best bang for the buck. I have read many many reviews on all the presses we are talking about and I have yet to find where it states I can buy the case feeder down the road for the Hornady AP. I have learned I am not a good searcher on the internet it is just a fact so with that said I do try my best. This is one reason I join forums to get real hands on answer. The way I see it if I can save 20 cents a round that is 200 dollars or more per 1000. At the current price I and some friends are paying I would be saving 30 cents a round. I own my own business and work is very slow in the winter so I have a good amount of free time on my hands. I would like to load rifle also down the road as I have many loads that the price are just off the wall to buy. So let me ask this if I buy a dilon 650 without the case feeder can I add it after words as I start to get the ball rolling? The same question goes for the LNL? Sorry unless I get to use the Lee pro 1000 befor I buy, its not even in the running IMHO. Happy New Year everyone please keep it safe but dont forget to have a good time too.

Edit. With hours of searching this morning I answered my own question on if I can add the bullet and case feeder down the road and the answer is yes.

I wasn't suggesting the Pro1000. I try to stay relatively on topic when guys have a more serious question. I was goofing on the guys that answer a question about whether a RC with $60.00 worth of dies for $120.00 is a "good buy" by suggesting a $1,000.00+ 650 set up is the only possible solution.

Outer Rondacker
12-31-2011, 07:54
I wasn't suggesting the Pro1000. I try to stay relatively on topic when guys have a more serious question. I was goofing on the guys that answer a question about whether a RC with $60.00 worth of dies for $120.00 is a "good buy" by suggesting a $1,000.00+ 650 set up is the only possible solution.

WiskyT never the less it worked LOL. They got me looking at the 650 and hornady LNL. The 550b in my mind just has me doing to much each time you pull the lever. Dont get me wrong Im sure its great but putting empty case in and bullet and indexing and pushing the lever all the way forward then starting agian just seams a bit much while watching everything else go on. This does not mean It is to much I just fall back to the basics of some training and that is the KISS system of keep it simple stupid. Used presses dont seam to be an option around where I am the same goes for buying one at a gun shop they just dont know anything about them.

Colorado4Wheel
12-31-2011, 08:53
KISS describes the 550. It has less automation. Less to go wrong. Less to adjust. It's simple. Yes, you have to index. Beside that one issue it's far simpler then any press with a case feeder. Ergonomically, it also has a excellent workflow. Same can be said of the Lee Classic Turret. It's SUPER simple. Next up the list is the LnL (with out the casefeeder). It's a pretty simple press as well. It's got a little more fiddling to be done with the Powder Measure (especially if you want to flare and seat at the same time) then the 550. But it's a pretty simple press if you don't. Add a casefeeder and none of the machines are simple. But the 650 isn't hard. The LnL is again a mixed bag. The larger the case (45 vs 9mm) the easier it is to get running right.

WiskyT
12-31-2011, 09:02
WiskyT never the less it worked LOL. They got me looking at the 650 and hornady LNL. The 550b in my mind just has me doing to much each time you pull the lever. Dont get me wrong Im sure its great but putting empty case in and bullet and indexing and pushing the lever all the way forward then starting agian just seams a bit much while watching everything else go on. This does not mean It is to much I just fall back to the basics of some training and that is the KISS system of keep it simple stupid. Used presses dont seam to be an option around where I am the same goes for buying one at a gun shop they just dont know anything about them.

The 650 is superior to the Pro1000, but it is spendy. For people on a tight budget with a little patience, it is a viable press. I haven't used a 550, but to me, the production rate isn't the issue with it for 99% of the shooters out there. Does it really matter if it takes you 40 minutes to load 6 boxes of ammo instead of 25 when you shoot that much in a month? The 650 requires less effort though with a case feeder.

I don't have any experience with the Square Deal, but for the price, it looks like a good idea. Dillon makes good stuff and they have great support. For what the SDB costs, you could have one for each caliber, which is very convenient.

Outer Rondacker
12-31-2011, 09:22
At the dillon web page the SDB is 370.94 with 22.06 shipping to my house. Puts me at 400. I have read that this will not load rifle rounds as it is to short. Not to sound rude but your telling me at 450 bucks pulls I should order one per caliber gun I own? That seams a bit much to me if I had that kinda loot to toss around I would just buy ammo and say the hay with it. I am hoping I took your post wrong which I do often. If I can stockpile some ammo over the course of a winter and save 500 on buying cost and put it into a LIFE LONG PRESS I still feel I have made out. I will say I currently spend on different ammos around 300 a month and my shooting is limited to how much I shoot some of my arms do to the cost. The major one at the moment is the gap and alot of rifles. Yes I like the oddballs for some reason.

WiskyT
12-31-2011, 09:29
At the dillon web page the SDB is 370.94 with 22.06 shipping to my house. Puts me at 400. I have read that this will not load rifle rounds as it is to short. Not to sound rude but your telling me at 450 bucks pulls I should order one per caliber gun I own? That seams a bit much to me if I had that kinda loot to toss around I would just buy ammo and say the hay with it. I am hoping I took your post wrong which I do often. If I can stockpile some ammo over the course of a winter and save 500 on buying cost and put it into a LIFE LONG PRESS I still feel I have made out. I will say I currently spend on different ammos around 300 a month and my shooting is limited to how much I shoot some of my arms do to the cost. The major one at the moment is the gap and alot of rifles. Yes I like the oddballs for some reason.

Uh, I'm a little confused. You start out wondering if $120.00 is too much money for $300.00 worth of stuff, a reasonable question, then state that the $379.00 press is too much money for a guy that wants a $1,000.00 650 set up. The caliber conversions on the 650 are approching half the price of the SDB, something else for someone who is on a budget to consider.

Anyway, since I can't figure out what it is your tyring to accomplish, then I can't be of any assistance.

My buddy is going to start reloading, finally. He isn't looking to break the bank, so I'm going to suggest the Lee Turret and the SDB when he comes over today. I'll be showing him my 26yo Pro 1000 and my fully optioned out 650.

WiskyT
12-31-2011, 09:31
BTW, the RC you originally asked about is "A LIFE LONG PRESS" as you put it. You could cut it in half with a chop saw and RCBS would send you another one.

Outer Rondacker
12-31-2011, 09:48
Uh, I'm a little confused. You start out wondering if $120.00 is too much money for $300.00 worth of stuff, a reasonable question, then state that the $379.00 press is too much money for a guy that wants a $1,000.00 650 set up. The caliber conversions on the 650 are approching half the price of the SDB, something else for someone who is on a budget to consider.

Anyway, since I can't figure out what it is your tyring to accomplish, then I can't be of any assistance.

My buddy is going to start reloading, finally. He isn't looking to break the bank, so I'm going to suggest the Lee Turret and the SDB when he comes over today. I'll be showing him my 26yo Pro 1000 and my fully optioned out 650.

Heck your a little confused try being the guy trying to learn all this from many different angles. Once again my great thinking and transfering it to this computer stuff gets me every time. Yes you are correct in I started this post to ask about the single stage. Dont get me wrong I bought the rock chucker but I am now evolving as I learn more and get more input into the world of reloading as this post seams to have done in the first page. I have not even picked up the Rockchucker yet perhaps once I get it that is all I will need. And all I think I have to say at this point on the SDB has a short thow and does not suit alot of rounds. I know I didnt start this asking to reload every cal ever made but I am not a comp shooter in one cal so a press that can not evolve with me as a GUN owner is pointless IMHO. Thank you for all your posts and once again if I stepped on your toses I did not mean to I am the one asking for the help and honestly trying to learn. I have taken in all that I have read or tried to and dont have an opinion yet. I am not brand locked. If it will suit me then I will use it. Once again thanks for the imput.

WiskyT
12-31-2011, 10:31
Good move on the RC. Believe me, one press CAN do it all, just like a pair of Vicegrips can do everything you'd need a pair of pliers for. The RC is your Vicegrips. You'll always have a use for it no matter what else you get.

F106 Fan
12-31-2011, 10:37
An important question to ask: How difficult is it to change calibers and primer sizes on the 650. No, I don't know the answer. The primer mechanism is totally different than the one on the 550's I use.

The main purpose of the 550 is to make caliber/primer changes easy at the expense of not having all the features of the 650. The purpose of the 650 is to crank out reloads in a big hurry but I don't think caliber/primer changes are as easy as the 550.

As you add more calibers to the wish list, perhaps the 650 becomes less of a candidate and the 550 becomes more attractive.

The Square Deal press is made, essentially, for a single pistol caliber. It uses specific dies sets that are not useful on other presses and that is a downside. But we're not discussing a single caliber/primer size here so this press may not make sense and if rifle reloading is a consideration, this press if out of the running.

There's a reason that the 550B is the workhorse of reloaders. It is the most productive machine of its type while still having the ability to simply change the configuration.

You might want to spend a little time at BrianEnos.com if you haven't already. Among other things, shipping is free!

http://www.brianenos.com/pages/dillon.html

The discussion of the pros and cons of each machine may be worth the read.

It's pretty hard to get an unbiased comparison of reloaders in a forum like this. Besides, Dillon is the big player in progressive presses so just by market share there will be more folks in the blue camp than in the others.

Richard

thorn137
12-31-2011, 10:40
- The LNL-AP has the option for adding a case feeder at any point. Not sure why you had difficulty finding this info, but that's the answer.

- The Dillon SDB is a neat little press, but do be aware that it doesn't use standard dies and doesn't reload as many calibers as other presses. I don't know which ones, but that info is out there. It does auto-index, though.

I was in this same place a couple years ago. When I was looking for a first press, i had NO brand leanings going into it. I considered the Lee 1000, the 3 Dillons, and the Hornady. I made a list over time of the things that were important to me: at least 5 stations, auto-indexing, potential for case feeder, minimal aggravation, and price. The LNL-AP was the sweet spot for me, and I've never regretted it.

thorn

ron59
12-31-2011, 10:52
Your post is a perfect example of the snobbery I suggested.

First, you make it seem like I am the one who hand primes off the press. You quote me in one part, and then tack on another quote making it seem like mine. If you were journalist, that would make you dishonest. Since your aren't a journalist, or a researcher etc who makes their living with words and paper, I'll just take the opportunity to make it verry clear that I DO NOT PRIME OFF THE PRESS EVER. Why don't you attribute quotes to the people they belong to next time instead of accidently putting words in my mouth?

Let's get back to the original point of my post, which you ignored, You posted that only Dillon makes a reliable case feeder. That simply isn't true. The Lee casefeeder works great, doesn't need electricty, Isn't 9 feet off the ground, and most importantly, costs probably one tenth what the Dillon one does. It does the exact same thing, just as effectively, with fewer parts, no motors to wear out, and an easier/cheaper caliber changeover routine.

Really? Dude.... Really?

Tried to attribute the other quote to you? Certainly didn't do THAT on purpose, I've fixed that, but damn.. get your panties out of a wad. You're the one wanting to focus on POINTS, the point I was trying to make with those quotes are that plenty of people have negative stuff to say about that press, whether it was you or someone else is not necessarily germane to the conversation.


Yes, I made this statement "only Dillon makes a reliable case feeder". I did not include the qualifier "for presses where the press is not (in general) considered to be a pile of donkey crap". I assumed I didn't need to. While YOU can justify your purchase of that press, I sure don't see a lot of other love for it. So you took a statement I made and then tried to make a counterpoint based on a technicality. Yeah, maybe somebody else has a "reliable case feeder", but when the press is the Pro 1000? Please. I can't type over here because I'm laughing so hard at you.

You are SO petty with your arguments, it's not even funny. Pretty much EVERY POST YOU MAKE is snide and petty.

WiskyT
12-31-2011, 10:54
Really? Dude.... Really?

Tried to attribute the other quote to you? Certainly didn't do THAT on purpose, I've fixed that, but damn.. get your panties out of a wad. You're the one wanting to focus on POINTS, the point I was trying to make with those quotes are that plenty of people have negative stuff to say about that press, whether it was you or someone else is not necessarily germane to the conversation.


Yes, I made this statement "only Dillon makes a reliable case feeder". I did not include the qualifier "for presses where the press is not (in general) considered to be a pile of donkey crap". I assumed I didn't need to. While YOU can justify your purchase of that press, I sure don't see a lot of other love for it. So you took a statement I made and then tried to make a counterpoint based on a technicality. Yeah, maybe somebody else has a "reliable case feeder", but when the press is the Pro 1000? Please. I can't type over here because I'm laughing so hard at you.

You are SO petty with your arguments, it's not even funny. Pretty much EVERY POST YOU MAKE is snide and petty.

http://www.zoloft.com/images/pages/home/coupon.png

F106 Fan
12-31-2011, 11:52
- The LNL-AP has the option for adding a case feeder at any point. Not sure why you had difficulty finding this info, but that's the answer.

- The Dillon SDB is a neat little press, but do be aware that it doesn't use standard dies and doesn't reload as many calibers as other presses. I don't know which ones, but that info is out there. It does auto-index, though.

I was in this same place a couple years ago. When I was looking for a first press, i had NO brand leanings going into it. I considered the Lee 1000, the 3 Dillons, and the Hornady. I made a list over time of the things that were important to me: at least 5 stations, auto-indexing, potential for case feeder, minimal aggravation, and price. The LNL-AP was the sweet spot for me, and I've never regretted it.

thorn

There are some great videos on the LNL-AP with a case feeder and a bullet feeder. If I weren't already in the blue camp, I would certainly consider it. It's a nice looking unit. Besides, I have 3 Hornady 366 shotgun loaders and they are quite nice.

The thing about building up a list over time is that you first have to learn what questions to ask. In most cases, that comes from experience. In my case, the primary question is: will the press swage the primer pockets? It is the differentiator between the Dillon 650 which is fast enough and the Dillon 1050 which will swage pockets. In my view, that feature alone is worth the difference in price. Others will have a different point of view.

Richard

Outer Rondacker
12-31-2011, 18:29
Well I picked up my RCBS RC and spent a bit more then I stated but I got a bit more too. Lets just say this I have a bunch to learn on. I walked away with four sets of dies and not one was 45 acp lol go figure. I also stopped by a friends who reloads and checked out the 550b in person. Even reloaded a few 357s. Not a bad set up I thought it was going to be more then it was. Turned out its faster then it lead on. I also got to use a lee pro 1000 I know this is going to start a war but it ran like a champ. The owner stated it takes alot of adjusting every 100 rounds or so. I have now crossed Lee of the list for good after using it. The dillon550B is starting to stand out for me. But we will see. Now back on topic of the Gap round. 185hp fmj or tmj is what I want to shoot. I would like to use Tightgroup as a powder. I am looking for a nice target load so max speed is not needed. 800-900 would be fine I think. Do you as a reloader think I would be better off shooting 200 gr bh?

ron59
12-31-2011, 19:11
- The LNL-AP has the option for adding a case feeder at any point. Not sure why you had difficulty finding this info, but that's the answer.


So does the 550B. But in both of those situations, the case feeder is more of an "afterthought" accessory, rather than the press being designed around the casefeeder.

That was why I told you earlier you can only compare the LNL-AP with the 550... both have case feeders available, but I wouldn't buy one for either of those presses because of the issues with them. They don't have caliber specific parts to make sure the brass makes it from the tube into station 1. Steve (C4W) had a fairly lengthy thread explaining the issues with his back when I was using the LNL.

If you NEVER want a casefeeder, then an LNL-AP is a great way to go... but it's just an auto-indexing 550. If you *do* want to think about a casefeeder, the 650 is the better choice, hands down.

WiskyT
12-31-2011, 19:23
I would like to use Tightgroup as a powder.

There will be an infraction resulting from this thread for sure:rofl:

steve dziadul
12-31-2011, 19:30
7grs unique 185 gr bullet 830fps model 39 its also a good load for the 45acp vel from my pact chronograph

F106 Fan
12-31-2011, 19:51
I would like to use Tightgroup as a powder

For a first pass at reloading, you might want to rethink this. Bullseye is another very fast powder that might not be a good powder for a new reloader.

My guess is that most everyone around here will steer you toward Unique simply because it will more completely fill the case and double charges will be very apparent.

For a while, you want to stay away from very fast powders. There is little room for error.

If you watch Hickok45's FAQ video on powder selection, you will see that he prefers the bulky powders as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7B_SqNdbRk&feature=relmfu

Richard

dbarry
12-31-2011, 20:37
nothing at all on gap vs acp... wow. you guys are getting way to sophisticated. :O)

WiskyT
12-31-2011, 20:40
nothing at all on gap vs acp... wow. you guys are getting way to sophisticated. :O)

Small pistol primers kind of took the wind out of the ACP sails. It made the ACP "metro" and their moral has been in the gutter ever since.

F106 Fan
12-31-2011, 21:54
nothing at all on gap vs acp... wow. you guys are getting way to sophisticated. :O)

Not a hot button for me! I don't own a gun that will shoot GAP and I do own a bunch that shoot ACP.

I bought a G21SF (.45 ACP) just to see what Glock was all about. It shoots ok and my family seems to like shooting it. It is very accurate for everyone who has shot it, even with factory sights. Pretty nice gun...

But I doubt that I will buy another Glock and, in the end, I prefer the 1911's. But at least I was willing to spend the money to give Glock a try.

Old people just don't deal well with change.

Richard

kcbrown
01-01-2012, 20:15
I also got to use a lee pro 1000 I know this is going to start a war but it ran like a champ. The owner stated it takes alot of adjusting every 100 rounds or so. I have now crossed Lee of the list for good after using it.

Experience is really the only way to properly judge a press. You tried the Pro 1000 and decided it wasn't for you. Fair enough, as long as you gave it a fair shake.

The owner's comment that it takes a lot of adjusting every 1000 rounds or so may be the result of the way he has it set up, but more likely it's the result of the way the shellplate carrier is assembled. There is an indexing adjustment screw that can move a bit depending on how the plate on the bottom of the carrier is positioned (it needs to be positioned to prevent any movement of the screw along its axis). On mine, I also took the additional liberty of inserting a piece of foam in the space underneath that plate adjacent to the adjustment screw, in order to keep the screw from rotating when it shouldn't.

The end result is that I haven't had to adjust the indexing of the press for at least a couple of thousand rounds. Frankly, I haven't had to adjust it ever since I put the shellplate carrier on the press and initially adjusted the indexing, which was a couple of thousand rounds ago.


My Pro 1000 had some interesting problems initially, until I finally figured out what was wrong. I've replaced a part or two -- Lee's quality control isn't the best in the world -- but the press has been solid ever since I took care of the issues I had.

The priming system is something I've never had a problem with. I use CCI 500 primers in it, and I understand the principles of operation of the priming system (namely, that it's gravity driven, so it depends on the weight of primers stacking up behind the one that's going to be placed to ensure reliable operation) and operate it accordingly (I always keep the primer trough full until I'm on my last batch for the run, at which point I'll use a tie-wrap to push the primers inwards when the press autoindexes, and thereby keep the primers from failing to land on the seating ram properly).


Note that I also have a Dillon 650, which is actually the press I started with. While I won't hesitate to recommend the Pro 1000 as an additional press, it's one I can't recommend as an only/first press unless the person has a lot of mechanical ability and the necessary patience to work through any potential problems that might arise.

Lee's quality control isn't the best in the world, and as a result the tolerances can stack up the wrong way and result in an unreliable press. One needs to be willing and able to identify the root cause of any problems through examination of the operation of the press and to order appropriate replacement parts once the problematic ones have been identified.

When the tolerances stack up properly, though, the Pro 1000 will run reliably.


If it's a press that either must run properly out of the box or must be as close to absolutely reliable as can generally be achieved, the Dillons are the way to go for progressive presses. The Lee Classic Turret is similarly dependable, and if you'll be happy with a production rate of a couple of hundred rounds an hour, it's a great way to get decent production rates reliably.

Outer Rondacker
01-02-2012, 05:03
Experience is really the only way to properly judge a press. You tried the Pro 1000 and decided it wasn't for you. Fair enough, as long as you gave it a fair shake.

The owner's comment that it takes a lot of adjusting every 1000 rounds or so may be the result of the way he has it set up, but more likely it's the result of the way the shellplate carrier is assembled. There is an indexing adjustment screw that can move a bit depending on how the plate on the bottom of the carrier is positioned (it needs to be positioned to prevent any movement of the screw along its axis). On mine, I also took the additional liberty of inserting a piece of foam in the space underneath that plate adjacent to the adjustment screw, in order to keep the screw from rotating when it shouldn't.

The end result is that I haven't had to adjust the indexing of the press for at least a couple of thousand rounds. Frankly, I haven't had to adjust it ever since I put the shellplate carrier on the press and initially adjusted the indexing, which was a couple of thousand rounds ago.


My Pro 1000 had some interesting problems initially, until I finally figured out what was wrong. I've replaced a part or two -- Lee's quality control isn't the best in the world -- but the press has been solid ever since I took care of the issues I had.

The priming system is something I've never had a problem with. I use CCI 500 primers in it, and I understand the principles of operation of the priming system (namely, that it's gravity driven, so it depends on the weight of primers stacking up behind the one that's going to be placed to ensure reliable operation) and operate it accordingly (I always keep the primer trough full until I'm on my last batch for the run, at which point I'll use a tie-wrap to push the primers inwards when the press autoindexes, and thereby keep the primers from failing to land on the seating ram properly).


Note that I also have a Dillon 650, which is actually the press I started with. While I won't hesitate to recommend the Pro 1000 as an additional press, it's one I can't recommend as an only/first press unless the person has a lot of mechanical ability and the necessary patience to work through any potential problems that might arise.

Lee's quality control isn't the best in the world, and as a result the tolerances can stack up the wrong way and result in an unreliable press. One needs to be willing and able to identify the root cause of any problems through examination of the operation of the press and to order appropriate replacement parts once the problematic ones have been identified.

When the tolerances stack up properly, though, the Pro 1000 will run reliably.


If it's a press that either must run properly out of the box or must be as close to absolutely reliable as can generally be achieved, the Dillons are the way to go for progressive presses. The Lee Classic Turret is similarly dependable, and if you'll be happy with a production rate of a couple of hundred rounds an hour, it's a great way to get decent production rates reliably.

I sorry I think you miss read what I wrote but that is ok I do it all the time trying to grab the info and go on the net. The owner of the Lee Pro 1000 ONLY gets 100 rounds before having to reset and adjust. This is just what he told me. I stumbled by some 40 s&w brass yesterday 600 rounds worth. I just so happend to buy some died for that with the RC I picked up so I came home and set it up and ran the spent cases passed die one. This is the newbie part ready for it. I never even hooked up the primer in the press. Got all done and said there I am hooked this was fun about an hour and a half to do it all. Going very slow and learning so on. Later last night I put the primer system on the press and went to town once again taking an hour and a half. I dont even own a gun that will shoot the 40. But something tells me I will in the future LOL. I think the single stage is going to be where it is at for me for a while. I would have never thought in a mill years loading or in my case sizing and depriming/ priming would be that enjoyable. I will give the next steps a go after some shopping for powder/lead. I almost forgot I was wanting to load 45 gap rounds. I have to order the dies then I can start on that.

WiskyT
01-02-2012, 08:24
I sorry I think you miss read what I wrote but that is ok I do it all the time trying to grab the info and go on the net. The owner of the Lee Pro 1000 ONLY gets 100 rounds before having to reset and adjust. This is just what he told me. I stumbled by some 40 s&w brass yesterday 600 rounds worth. I just so happend to buy some died for that with the RC I picked up so I came home and set it up and ran the spent cases passed die one. This is the newbie part ready for it. I never even hooked up the primer in the press. Got all done and said there I am hooked this was fun about an hour and a half to do it all. Going very slow and learning so on. Later last night I put the primer system on the press and went to town once again taking an hour and a half. I dont even own a gun that will shoot the 40. But something tells me I will in the future LOL. I think the single stage is going to be where it is at for me for a while. I would have never thought in a mill years loading or in my case sizing and depriming/ priming would be that enjoyable. I will give the next steps a go after some shopping for powder/lead. I almost forgot I was wanting to load 45 gap rounds. I have to order the dies then I can start on that.

That's why I like a single stage for new guys. It allows you to dip your toe in the water. It keeps things simple when all you have to worry about regarding the press is going up and down. It allows you to learn the actual reloading aspect of reloading without having to worry about the operation of the press itself.

Take some of those resized cases and cheack to see if they fit in someones 40. They won't "feed" in there, but you can drop them in the barrel manually. I can guarantee they will fit, but it gives you an opportunity to check your work and it doesn't cost anything.

When it comes to bullet seating time, you definately want to check a few before you do a whole bunch as that stage can easily result in rounds not fitting.

kcbrown
01-02-2012, 19:29
I sorry I think you miss read what I wrote but that is ok I do it all the time trying to grab the info and go on the net. The owner of the Lee Pro 1000 ONLY gets 100 rounds before having to reset and adjust. This is just what he told me.


Ooops. I typoed the number and added an additional zero when I didn't intend to when I said "every 1000 rounds" in reference to his comment.


If he's having to reset and adjust every 100 rounds then something's loose that shouldn't be. For instance, my experience is that the shellplate really should be assembled to the drive bolt using Loctite, because otherwise it can loosen and cause problems, like indexing only halfway. Another (much more likely) possibility is that the indexing adjustment screw is moving when it shouldn't be, which is why I inserted a bit of dense foam in the space underneath the shellplate carrier cover that's adjacent to the screw (doing so means the screw has some side pressure on it that also snugs it against the ratchet gear).

Here's what I did to make it function reliably (see the bit in that post that I quoted as well): http://glocktalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=18376001&postcount=122

PsychoKnight
01-03-2012, 10:22
Good move on the RC. Believe me, one press CAN do it all, just like a pair of Vicegrips can do everything you'd need a pair of pliers for. The RC is your Vicegrips. You'll always have a use for it no matter what else you get.

Vicegrips. The primary instrument of an Evil Plumber and his twin, the Evil Mechanic!

Please don't call a RockChucker a vicegrip! It doesn't leave a trail of death, destruction, and enless overnight hours on one's knees and back.

Outer Rondacker
01-03-2012, 12:58
So far I have a couple of data loads for Titegroup. But I am willing to not do the newbie move and get a powder that wont have the issue of double loading with. What powder burns clean and will not brake the bank as this is my one reason for reloading? Please only list data for powders you have data for the gap round.

On another note I have been reading other posts and members seam to be bothered by newbies using Titegroup as a powder and cant understand why they do it. I think Key word is THINK I have some insite in that. If 1 pound of powder is 16.99 and blank brand calls for 4.5gr load and another grand is x brand calls for 8.1 the Blank brand will fill almost twice as many shells for the same price. Just the way I feal a person might be looking at it. I know I was plus I was getting data or charts if you call them for that powder.

PCJim
01-03-2012, 16:41
On another note I have been reading other posts and members seam to be bothered by newbies using Titegroup as a powder and cant understand why they do it. I think Key word is THINK I have some insite in that. If 1 pound of powder is 16.99 and blank brand calls for 4.5gr load and another grand is x brand calls for 8.1 the Blank brand will fill almost twice as many shells for the same price. Just the way I feal a person might be looking at it. I know I was plus I was getting data or charts if you call them for that powder.

And yet, powder is the least costly component of reloading if you consider that most brass is free for the taking. So, why should an inexperienced reloader increase the odds of a potentially costly and/or injurious mistake?

Does the phrase, "Penny wise, Pound foolish" come to mind?

WiskyT
01-03-2012, 16:46
Vicegrips. The primary instrument of an Evil Plumber and his twin, the Evil Mechanic!

Please don't call a RockChucker a vicegrip! It doesn't leave a trail of death, destruction, and enless overnight hours on one's knees and back.

If you can't fix it with Vicegrips, a railroad spike, and a brick, you aint a mechanic.

Outer Rondacker
01-04-2012, 17:04
If you can't fix it with Vicegrips, a railroad spike, and a brick, you aint a mechanic.

I think you left out a peice of Gum. :rofl:

I have been to four gun stores be me and not one has powder for sale.