9mm VS .45 (Military Channel) [Archive] - Glock Talk

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M&P Shooter
12-31-2011, 02:49
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CTbmSEhDVQ&feature=related

Dexters
12-31-2011, 07:41
"9mm little more than half the size of the 45"

If 77% is little more...

Potting clay inside a plastic pail like the human body ... seriously!

beforeobamabans
12-31-2011, 08:03
FWIW, they are testing FMJ, not JHP.

Glock19Fan
01-01-2012, 06:56
"This is a 1911, its what I ********** to at night"

They didnt even bother to open up the 9mms entry.

Not only that, but you could see how the 9mm's bucket had split on the side from the "hydrostatic shock".

packinaglock
01-01-2012, 07:42
Seemed a little biased :whistling:

jaysonL
01-01-2012, 10:25
There is no arguing that a .45 will cut a larger hole than a 9mm . Duh ! But again, if the 9mm is not effective, then stand in front of one while a modern self defense round is being fired.

Zombie Steve
01-01-2012, 11:13
Why do they call it the .45 caliber Colt round? Where'd they get 800 fps for velocity?

cowboy1964
01-01-2012, 11:37
"9mm little more than half the size of the 45"

If 77% is little more...

Probably referring to area, though he did say "diameter".

.45 = .2025 sq in
.355 = .1260 sq in

JBP55
01-01-2012, 12:06
Seemed a little biased :whistling:

True.

cowboy1964
01-01-2012, 13:31
The video was emphasizing the fact that the 9mm overpenetrated too much, which of course everyone knows. When it comes to FMJ the 45 does beat the 9mm. FMJ is still a sucky round for self-defense though.

Metal_Tiger
01-03-2012, 04:39
The video was emphasizing the fact that the 9mm overpenetrated too much, which of course everyone knows. When it comes to FMJ the 45 does beat the 9mm. FMJ is still a sucky round for self-defense though.

FMJ is a NATO thing. Its supposed to be more humane:wow:

HexHead
01-03-2012, 05:28
Probably referring to area, though he did say "diameter".

.45 = .2025 sq in
.355 = .1260 sq in

Maybe they were comparing a 115gr bullet with a 230gr one?

cowboy1964
01-03-2012, 06:10
Maybe they were comparing a 115gr bullet with a 230gr one?

Good point. NATO 9mm is 124gr so that would fit with their statement of the 45 "being almost twice the size". They should have said weight though.

Spiffums
01-03-2012, 06:20
If you have to carry FMJ carry a 45, if you can carry a HP carry a good modern 9mm.

righteoushoot
01-03-2012, 06:41
Probably referring to area, though he did say "diameter".

.45 = .2025 sq in
.355 = .1260 sq in

Just curious: Area of Circle = Pi * r * r

If D = .45, then r = .225 ---> 3.14159 * .225 * .225 = .159107


If D = .355, then r = .1775 ---> 3.14159 * .1775 * .1775 = .099019

.099019/.159107 = 62.23%

Is that right? :dunno:

cowboy1964
01-03-2012, 07:11
Just curious: Area of Circle = Pi * r * r

If D = .45, then r = .225 ---> 3.14159 * .225 * .225 = .159107


If D = .355, then r = .1775 ---> 3.14159 * .1775 * .1775 = .099019

.099019/.159107 = 62.23%

Is that right? :dunno:

That is correct. I was assuming square bullets I guess. :whistling: But round area still jives with the "45 is almost twice" the size of 9mm.

righteoushoot
01-03-2012, 07:16
That is correct. I was assuming square bullets I guess. :whistling: But round area still jives with the "45 is almost twice" the size of 9mm.

You forgot to carry the Y...

Still, technically speaking, the bullet is not a 2 dimentional surface, but let's keep Calculus out of this. Don't want to start a Calculus war here. :rofl:

chasbo00
01-03-2012, 13:21
The .45 ACP kills tanks...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cC3IGts3Dyk

Tiro Fijo
01-03-2012, 13:54
In a military type scenario you want FMJ as they obviously encounter barriers which civilians don't.

What most people fail to realize is that a handgun is really not that important in the grande scheme of things in the military. Somewhere between a shovel & a canteen.

Metal_Tiger
01-03-2012, 15:07
What most people fail to realize is that a handgun is really not that important in the grande scheme of things in the military. Somewhere between a shovel & a canteen.

Well said. I have heard that the handgun just buys time to get you your riffle ..or shotgun. Could make a case for that:wow:

writwing
01-06-2012, 17:24
Good point. NATO 9mm is 124gr so that would fit with their statement of the 45 "being almost twice the size". They should have said weight though.

Actually they should have said "mass".

Merkavaboy
01-06-2012, 18:34
FMJ is a NATO thing. Its supposed to be more humane:wow:

It was actually the Hague Accords of 1899 that prohibited deforming or expanding bullets when used against uniformed enemy combatants.

NATO had nothing to do with it.

dvrdwn72
01-06-2012, 18:40
It was actually the Hague Accords of 1899 that prohibited deforming or expanding bullets when used against uniformed enemy combatants.

NATO had nothing to do with it.
Well the taliban don't wear uniforms/? Some special ops use .45 still.

Merkavaboy
01-06-2012, 19:19
Well the taliban don't wear uniforms/? Some special ops use .45 still.

That is very true. And IMO such combatants should be declaired Terrorists and allow our troops to use what ever ammo is most efficient against them, be it HPs, SPs or nuclear tipped +P+ loads. And IIRC, it is JAG that determined that OTM rifle bullets are considered illegal to use against the Taliban and Al Queda. It's JMO that the U.S. Govt has screwed over our troops by instituting tight ROEs that prevent our troops from doing what is necessary to eliminate our enemies.

As for the .45ACP, yes, some of the High Speed Low Drag guys use such ammo, and one load is a 185FMJ-FP+P made by Winchester. I don't know of any specific JHP loads that they be issued or being used.

Tiro Fijo
01-06-2012, 19:20
Well the taliban don't wear uniforms/? Some special ops use .45 still.


True, and legally we could shoot every one of them taken prisioner as they are basically partisans. However, with today's liberal media as well as the rest of the Leftist hand wringers this would go over like a pregnant pole vaulter.


The Geneva Conventions (http://www.glocktalk.com/wiki/Geneva_Conventions) established new protocols, namely, according to Article 4 of the Third Geneva Convention (http://www.glocktalk.com/wiki/Third_Geneva_Convention) of 1949, francs-tireurs are entitled to prisoner of war status provided that they are commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates, have a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance, carry arms openly, and conduct their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.


Special ops don't win wars.

jaklcrow
01-06-2012, 19:28
All I can say is that I work with three former Operators who all used and still carry, and prefer 9mm. Quantity, quantity, quantity.

SCmasterblaster
01-07-2012, 17:00
"9mm little more than half the size of the 45"

If 77% is little more...

Potting clay inside a plastic pail like the human body ... seriously!

Maybe he meant to say, "frontal area." :upeyes:

SCmasterblaster
01-07-2012, 17:05
"9mm little more than half the size of the 45"

If 77% is little more...

Potting clay inside a plastic pail like the human body ... seriously!

Maybe he meant to say, "frontal area," which would read that the frontal area of the .45 is over two times the frontal area of the 9mm (2.2 to be exact) :upeyes:

tsmo1066
01-09-2012, 13:40
All I can say is that I work with three former Operators who all used and still carry, and prefer 9mm. Quantity, quantity, quantity.

And the three former operators you work with are not alone in their opinion. If you look at a "who's who" of the world's most elite counter-terrorism and special forces units, 9mm is the OVERWHELMING favorite worldwide. By-and-large, these are units that have considerable say-so in the equipment they carry, and they continue choosing 9mm by a vast margin over all other side-arm calibers combined.

Does that make 9mm the "best" defense caliber out there? No, but it certainly puts to rest any arguments that 9mm isn't a man-stopper - even in ball. If 9mm didn't work, and work WELL, it wouldn't remain the top pick among most of the world's elite fighting forces, even after over a century of widespread service.

dsa1115
01-09-2012, 14:26
The 9mm is popular because it's a lot lighter to carry compared to .45ACP. I suspect that weight is a major consideration as it is with the 5.56 vs 7.62 x 51. Infantry can carry twice as many rounds.

tsmo1066
01-09-2012, 14:37
The 9mm is popular because it's a lot lighter to carry compared to .45ACP. I suspect that weight is a major consideration as it is with the 5.56 vs 7.62 x 51. Infantry can carry twice as many rounds.

I agree. There are many advantages to 9mm, weight being one and interchangeability of ammo with many common submachine guns and carbines being another. If the 9mm didn't effectively put men down, however, none of those weight and interchangeability advantages would be enough to make it a worthwhile choice for the Mossad, SAS, SEALS and other units that use it.

9mm works, and it works pretty darned well.

Triple7
01-09-2012, 14:50
They didn't take into account that I would double tap and not run out of ammo with my 9mm

OctoberRust
01-09-2012, 15:46
They didn't take into account that I would double tap and not run out of ammo with my 9mm


Assuming you don't get a "stove top" :tongueout:



Jusssttt kidding. :rofl:

Tiro Fijo
01-09-2012, 15:57
...If you look at a "who's who" of the world's most elite counter-terrorism and special forces units, 9mm is the OVERWHELMING favorite worldwide. By-and-large, these are units that have considerable say-so in the equipment they carry, and they continue choosing 9mm by a vast margin over all other side-arm calibers combined...


That has more to do with logistics & familiarity than any pronounced advantage outside of the US. After the Great Depression Colt stopped marketing heavily in foreign countries & S&W to a lesser extent. This was also due to more restricitive handgun laws abroad as well as tariffs. The vacuum was filled by foreign makers. Finally, let's face it, a 1911 platform needs rigorously trained armourers with a continual supply system and that is hard to do abroad.

tsmo1066
01-09-2012, 19:13
That has more to do with logistics & familiarity than any pronounced advantage outside of the US. After the Great Depression Colt stopped marketing heavily in foreign countries & S&W to a lesser extent. This was also due to more restricitive handgun laws abroad as well as tariffs. The vacuum was filled by foreign makers. Finally, let's face it, a 1911 platform needs rigorously trained armourers with a continual supply system and that is hard to do abroad.

I'm not in disagreement with you and there are many reasons why the 9mm remains the most popular combat sidearm round in the world. My point, though, is that if it didn't do its job, and do it pretty damned well, it would not remain at the top of the heap. Are there "better" rounds for some uses? Yes. Are their "better" manstoppers for certain situations? Yes. But the 9mm is NOT the ineffective round that many of its detractors claim it to be. It penetrates well, allows for high capacity in a small package, and drops people effectively, even in ball.

The 9mm is a 'jack of all trades', effective in a sidearm, effective in a submachine gun, easy to shoot, easy to carry and lethal in a great many configurations and bullet designs. If it weren't, all logistics and marketing aside, the military units that stake their lives on it wouldn't continue using it 100+ years after its inception.