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1s1k52
12-31-2011, 10:30
My uncle passed away and gave this

https://shop.rcbs.com/WebConnect/MainServlet?storeId=webconnect&catalogId=webconnect&langId=en_US&action=ProductDisplay&screenlabel=index&productId=2854&route=C04J148

to my dad.

As far as I can tell it has never been used and I conned my dad into lending it to me. He said he would use it which I know he wouldnt.

I have not reloaded since I was in grade school even then it was shotgun.

Other than dies, brass, bullets, primers and powder. is everything here?

How much should it run me to start doing .40? A buddy and I are going to set this up in his shop so im doing the research.

TX expat
12-31-2011, 10:41
Well with that kit, your major fixed expense is out of the way. A few small items like a bullet puller and a micrometer or caliper will be good to have. The caliper is necessary, the puller isn't but it'll save some headaches when you need to pull loads... I'd suggest you pick up a copy of the Lyman manual. It's got a lot of good information. Once again, not a must have, but it will only help you and be worth the money spent.

You'll probably want a brass tumbler at some point, but clean brass is not a must, just another nice thing to have.

As to your start up costs, that'll depend on how much and where you buy. But figure around $150 for a die set and enough consumables to get you started making bullets. Once you get settled on a specific bullet/powder/primer then you can buy in bulk and your cost per unit will really drop.

shotgunred
12-31-2011, 11:08
Looks like you just need some dies and consumables.

The ROCK CHUCKER is pretty much top dog for a single stage press.

1s1k52
12-31-2011, 11:19
I figured it was. When I found out he has had it for months rotting in a box I al most slapped him.

I will look into those items. I have watched some youtube videos they seem to skip steps and point that out in the video like saying "after this" yet dont show it.

kind of agitating...

I have some once or twice fired brass for my .40 already so that part is taken care of.
I priced powder, primers and bullets (100) on midwayusa.com after seeing the HAZMAT fee I will be looking local (Mckiney, TX)

I had to google what powder to use because all the ones I was clicking said "for shotgun" not sure if it matters

not to mention 10mm is my next pistol in line and they use the same dies.... thanks for replies

thorn137
12-31-2011, 11:23
$150 for a die set?

I've never paid more than $50-60... maybe that was a typo, though.

thorn

F106 Fan
12-31-2011, 11:29
Skip the videos for now and read a reloading manual. "ABC's of Reloading" seems to be highly regarded around here (I haven't read it):
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0896896099/?tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=8850632457&ref=pd_sl_840lscu7mf_e

I also recommend any of the manufacturer's manuals such as:

Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading
Speer Reloading Manual #14
Sierra Rifle & Handgun Reloading Data
Nosler Reloading Guide
Books like "ABC's of Reloading" don't skip steps and will present the data in a logical order.

Read the 'stickies' at the top of this forum.

Richard

TX expat
12-31-2011, 11:29
The main thing to remember about reloading is to take your time. Cutting corners is usually what causes accidents; so just take it step by step and don't rush anything and you'll be fine. It is a little intimidating when you first start but it's really not rocket science. Just work up loads carefully and always pay attention to the OALs listed; going shorter can result in pressures than exceed what is safe.

The Lyman manual has a really good step by step explanation of each process. The manual that came with the kit may as well, so check that out too. You should be able to get the basics for safe reloading steps from the manual.

TX expat
12-31-2011, 11:31
$150 for a die set?

I've never paid more than $50-60... maybe that was a typo, though.

thorn

Not a typo, I said $150 for a die set and enough consumables to get him started.

Dasglockenspiel
12-31-2011, 11:33
1s1K52:

You have a great kit to start with. I load a great deal of 40 S&W and enjoy the flexibility of powders and bullets. Before buying powders, primers and bullets I recommend the following:

Read the ABCs of relaoding cover to cover.
Review the following sites for their input on loads, techniques and equipment:
Reloadersnest.com
Handloads.com
All the powder manufacturers online data.
http://www.k8nd.com/ipscload.htm

Have fun!

Dasglockenspiel

F106 Fan
12-31-2011, 11:36
I had to google what powder to use because all the ones I was clicking said "for shotgun" not sure if it matters

not to mention 10mm is my next pistol in line and they use the same dies.... thanks for replies


You want to be VERY CAREFUL where you get your load data. My personal practice is to ask around but ALWAYS go back to a manufacturer's printed or posted data to check the validity. I DO NOT just accept somebody's word that the load is reasonable.

Reloading is a safe process but it is intolerant of mistakes. It isn't so much that a gun blows up, guns are easy to replace. It is the fact that you are holding the gun when it blows up that should cause concern.

Richard

TX expat
12-31-2011, 11:44
Consider mail order primers and powder once you are past the experimenting with different components stage. Before that, it won't be worth it.

Ultimately your powder choice is going to depend on what you are looking for in a reload. Experimenting with the various offerings out there is probably going to be necessary but you certianly can get a general idea about some load characteristics from internet research. Always double check published load data! Everyone is going to have favorite loads but not all of them may be safe, so double check published data and then work up to any load. I've seen more than one 'great load' that I wouldn't put in any gun because I like my fingers where they are.

shotgunred
12-31-2011, 11:55
Just get some 180 gr fmj's, small pistol primers and some WSF.

thorn137
12-31-2011, 12:11
Not a typo, I said $150 for a die set and enough consumables to get him started.

Oh, i missed that. Yes, that makes much more sense.

thorn

glock_19guy1983
12-31-2011, 12:25
When you buy dies, spend the extra money and get carbide. Makes the process much faster and less messy not having to lube the cases before sizing. Ive got a box of 500 180gr. HPs thats probably only had 50-75 bullets used out of it and and a set of RCBS carbide dies that i would let go relatively cheaply or trade for components i can use. Im currently loading 38/357, 270 and .270WSM, 44sp and mag, 30-06, 45colt, .243, 45acp, and 7mm-08

Breadman03
12-31-2011, 12:31
That kit comes with a loading manual. I chose Unique when I started loading (9mm), because I would only need 1 powder for when I began with .38 and .40.

The list of must haves not in the box:
Dies for .40
Shellholder for .40
Micrometer (I only have a caliper, but micrometer is more accurate)
.40 brass
The next 3 items should be bought from one of the .40 recipes listed in your manual. No experimenting until you have some experience. I've found it easy to get the powder and primers locally, but I usually have to order bullets.
.40 bullets
Powder
Primers

TX expat
12-31-2011, 12:58
Since you are in McKinney, you should have a number of places to buy reloading components locally. Sorry I can't help with any specific names, but I'm sure someone can tell you where to look for the best prices.

If all else fails, I know Cabela's will have some sort of reloading supply sale once or twice a year and if you can time that with one of the many coupons they always have out, you can almost get close to internet prices. With that one open off 75 at Stacey Rd, that might end up being the most convenient place to buy stuff anyway. If you are the kind of person that learns best by watching, you might ask them if they have reloading classes. The one up here in KS does, but I don't know anything else about it but someone told me it was pretty inexpensive.

Once you are ready to buy in bulk, have a look at Powder Valley. Their prices are great and they are good folks to deal with.

http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/

fredj338
12-31-2011, 14:06
Skip the videos for now and read a reloading manual. "ABC's of Reloading" seems to be highly regarded around here (I haven't read it):
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0896896099/?tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=8850632457&ref=pd_sl_840lscu7mf_e

I also recommend any of the manufacturer's manuals such as:

Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading
Speer Reloading Manual #14
Sierra Rifle & Handgun Reloading Data
Nosler Reloading Guide
Books like "ABC's of Reloading" don't skip steps and will present the data in a logical order.

Read the 'stickies' at the top of this forum.

Richard

^^THIS^^^ The problem w/ Utube, anyone can post on there & you don't have enough exp to know if it's fact or fantasy. Get the ABCs, read it twice, then get two good manuals, I like Speer & lyman, read them twice. Then you should have a good concept of what is need.
Your kit has everything but dies & you should get a set of dial calipers to measure stuff. A case tumbler can be added later, but you can shoot brass that has been rolled around in a damp towel to remove dirt/grit. It won't be shiney, but it will reload fine. Come & ask questions. Most of the guys here know there stuff, the ones that don't get beat up by the rest of us if they give bad advice.:supergrin:

1s1k52
12-31-2011, 17:28
awesome. Thanks guys for all the help and books to read.

as far as what am i hoping for? well starting out just getting one to fire safely through paper and come home to tell about it.

Long run, very long run-try and create something with a heavey round high velocity.

F106 Fan
12-31-2011, 17:47
You're have gotten the recommendation to buy carbide dies because you don't have to lube the cases. It's true and I reloaded that way for many years.

A month or so back I tried Hornady One Shot lube and it makes a HUGE difference in the amount of effort required to resize cases. There is no need to clean off the lube after the round is loaded.

I realize this is more applicable to progressive presses where there is a lot going on with every stroke but it is probably worth the effort even on a single stage press.

I just dump a few hundred rounds into a plastic box and spray away. I shake the brass around and make a half-hearted attempt to upset the cases that are mouth up and spray again. A few shakes of the box to even out the lube and a one minute wait before dumping them into the case feeder.

Richard

norton
12-31-2011, 18:57
Posted in wrong thread

1s1k52
01-01-2012, 08:44
I hope I am wrong about this... I was doing some math and It seems like continuing my purchases through Georgia Arms. Would be cheaper than reloading? atleast for .40

I may be making wrong choices but 180 grain Hornday bullets are 20 per box of 100. winchester primers are 33.00 per 1000

WiskyT
01-01-2012, 10:14
Just get a good manual and follow it. There is too much information by people who add in concepts you don't need. This makes the whole process overly complicated and has you chasing details you don't need to worry about. This compromises your abilty to monitor the things you DO NEED TO WORRY ABOUT.

A micrometer is a poor choice for reloading. It's essential if you're a machinist, but it's just silly to think you are going to need the precision of a mic to realod ammo. A caliper is more appropriate, but even that isn't necessary.

If the info isn't offered in the pistol reloading chapters of any reputable manual, you don't need to know it.

Since the link you showed already has the Speer manual in it, I would only get a Lee 3 die set for 40 SW for about $35.00 or so, maybe they cost less, and some locally bought components.

If the kit is very old, the manual in it might pre-date the 40SW round. Make sure there is data in the manual for 40SW.

ETA: Lee dies include the shellholder. If you get a different brand, make sure you end up with a shellholder specific to 40SW.

TX expat
01-01-2012, 10:19
You have to evaluate what you are buying based on what purpose it serves, then look at every potential savings by maximizing bulk discounts on larger quantities.

Basically what I'm saying is if you buy bullets by the 100 and powder a pound at a time, then yeah, you might not be saving much money over bulk reloads from a vendor. When you purchase bulk quantities of consumables, your cost per unit drops significantly. Plus by paying a lot of attention to the major vendors you can find lots of free hazmat and/or free shipping deals with minimum purchases. When you are first getting started, I don't suggest you buy primers 10,000 at a time, but once you have been doing it a while, you'll develop an appreciation for the significant savings that large purchases can provide.

I'll give you an idea on how much I reload for but I'm going to use my 9mm target loads as an example because I just did all this math for someone who was asking me some questions about reloading; I could go back and tell you how much my .40 loads cost on a per unit basis fairly easily but I could also guess that they will run around .08 per unit more.

My 9mm costs per unit:

Primer - 0.02
Powder - 0.009
MB lead 125 gr. RN - 0.07
Brass - 0.00 (mostly range brass)

So my target loads cost roughly $0.10 each or $5.00 for a box of 50. That's everything, tax, shipping, hazmat included. Obviously it doesn't include the equipment costs, my time or any other hard cost, but as far as consumables go, that's an all inclusive price.

So 1k from your ammo dealer will run you $250 plus shipping, I'm assuming, and I am making the 'same' target load for right at $100. If I wanted to make FMJ instead of lead to actually duplicate the their round it would run me around $35 more for some Berry's plated bullets or a little more for an actual jacketed round. If I had the initiative that some folks do, I could cast my own bullets and that price per unit would drop even further.

As you can see from my example, your actual bullet choice is going to have the greatest impact on your per unit cost, so always evaluate that against your intended purpose. If you are making some finely tuned rounds for dangerous game hunting or competition shooting, then absolutely buy quality needed to do the job properly. If you are punching holes in paper, then adjust your purchase to suit your need because you don't really need a $0.20 projectile to put a hole in paper when a $0.12 projectile will do the same job.

Now that I've said all that I'm going to tell you this; all the cost savings are the secondary reason for reloading. If you try reloading simply to count pennies then you'll probably grow tired of it (unless you just happen to have tons of free time). The best reason to reload is the amount of control you'll have over the rounds you shoot. The ability to fine tune loads for every firearm you shoot, for whatever purpose you are shooting it, is the best reason to start reloading (at least in my opinion), because like just about every reloader will tell you; you won't save any money reloading, you'll just shoot a lot more.

F106 Fan
01-01-2012, 10:24
Precision Delta bullets are $115/1000
Primers are $33.00/1000
Powder is $20/1000 - probably high

Total $168/1000 versus $260/1000 for Georgia Arms

The only question is whether it is worth saving $92/1000 by reloading.

FWIW, most reloaders use cast lead bullets and the price will drop another $35/1000 or so.

Richard

TX expat
01-01-2012, 10:33
Yeah, sorry I said micrometer and I meant caliper.

Seating depth is important though and I wouldn't call it an unnecessary piece of equipment, especially in a high pressure round like the .40. A bullet seated too deep can cause pretty significant pressure increases and that can have serious consequences. I can't imagine risking that because you don't have a $25 item to accurately measure your OAL.

WiskyT
01-01-2012, 10:38
Yeah, sorry I said micrometer and I meant caliper.

Seating depth is important though and I wouldn't call it an unnecessary piece of equipment, especially in a high pressure round like the .40. A bullet seated too deep can cause pretty significant pressure increases and that can have serious consequences. I can't imagine risking that because you don't have a $25 item to accurately measure your OAL.

Fair enough. But at start loads, which is what a manual would specify, you can just use a factory round to set seating depth. The last thing you want to do when new is to be obsessing over thousandths of an inch precision in seating depth, which is impossible to obtain, and to keep backing up your process. It's a distraction that isn't needed.

HexHead
01-01-2012, 10:49
Fair enough. But at start loads, which is what a manual would specify, you can just use a factory round to set seating depth. The last thing you want to do when new is to be obsessing over thousandths of an inch precision in seating depth, which is impossible to obtain, and to keep backing up your process. It's a distraction that isn't needed.

Disagree. Learn to do it right, from the start. Ingraine the good habits, not the taking of shortcuts.

TX expat
01-01-2012, 10:51
I definitely agree that going overboard obsessing about OAL isn't going to do much other than complicate things, so I can see your point. I stand by the need for a proper measuring device though. Starting him off with corner cutting ideas is, in my opinion, far more dangerous than having him obsess over seating depth with a caliper.

WiskyT
01-01-2012, 10:56
Disagree. Learn to do it right, from the start. Ingraine the good habits, not the taking of shortcuts.

What's "right" about measuring OAL? What is the "right" OAL? There is no answer to that question in the books because there is no "right" OAL. Calipers and even micrometers aren't going to change that.

It's not a shortcut to use the same OAL that factory ammo comes with anymore than using brass that has already been made. In anything we do, even designing fighter aircraft, you use things that have been done for you by someone else. Letting Winchester determine your OAL for you is something that saves time, simplifies, and is sufficient for anyone using loads that are 20% below the max allowed for a cartidge, which is what start loads do.

WiskyT
01-01-2012, 10:57
I definitely agree that going overboard obsessing about OAL isn't going to do much other than complicate things, so I can see your point. I stand by the need for a proper measuring device though. Starting him off with corner cutting ideas is, in my opinion, far more dangerous than having him obsess over seating depth with a caliper.

I agree that it should be measured. A factory round of similar bullet type is a sufficiently accurate measuring tool.

TX expat
01-01-2012, 11:03
Ok, but how his he supposed to do this. Remember, he's new to reloading... Are you expecting him to just eyeball one cartridge next to the other? Or put a live round in the press and then dial down his seater plug? He might just mash down the factory round and not even realize it.

I don't disagree that someone with experience could take a factory round and probably load a safe reload using it as a guide but I don't believe that a novice could, or should, attempt the same thing.

WiskyT
01-01-2012, 11:13
Ok, but how his he supposed to do this. Remember, he's new to reloading... Are you expecting him to just eyeball one cartridge next to the other? Or put a live round in the press and then dial down his seater plug? He might just mash down the factory round and not even realize it.

I don't disagree that someone with experience could take a factory round and probably load a safe reload using it as a guide but I don't believe that a novice could, or should, attempt the same thing.

You just put a factory round in the shellholder, raise the ram, and adjust the seating/crimping die around it. Unless you adjust it with a pipe wrench, you're not going to come up with a round that is too short.

Every step of reloading requires some common sense. A caliper could be zeroed wrong too.

1s1k52
01-03-2012, 17:45
all good information thank you very much.

dumb question....the grain of the bullet is the weight....Lets say I carry 180g Winchester PDX .40

If I reloaded with a smaller bullet but same specs would that make a difference? I realize I may be getting ahead of myself. But it is just something I am wondering.

I have shot WWB 180g along with several 180g and had the recoil be very tame with WWB so thats what I am wondering. While I am reading I am going to compare other specs and I want to know what I am looking at,

TX expat
01-03-2012, 17:58
all good information thank you very much.

dumb question....the grain of the bullet is the weight....Lets say I carry 180g Winchester PDX .40

If I reloaded with a smaller bullet but same specs would that make a difference? I realize I may be getting ahead of myself. But it is just something I am wondering.

I have shot WWB 180g along with several 180g and had the recoil be very tame with WWB so thats what I am wondering. While I am reading I am going to compare other specs and I want to know what I am looking at,

Yes, bullets within a caliber are separated by weight, which is in grains.

Absolutely it would make a difference, which is why I'm going to mention again that you need to get a good reloading book and use instructions and data it provides. The charge weight goes down as the bullet weight goes up, so you wouldn't be overcharging to use a lighter bullet, but it's still not a safe way to work up a load. They test all those weights and powders and come up with individual minimum and maximum charges for a reason. Also, minimum cartridge length is going to change between bullet weights so always be sure to keep an eye on that.

1s1k52
01-16-2012, 14:13
I have seen a few carbide die types from rcbs group b with taper sound right? That Speer manual wasn't in that box so I will go with one that has been suggested on here

F106 Fan
01-16-2012, 14:44
I have seen a few carbide die types from rcbs group b with taper sound right? That Speer manual wasn't in that box so I will go with one that has been suggested on here


Sure, RCBS makes nice dies. Carbide is definitely the way to go and buying the 3 die set will get you started. It will have a resizing die, an expader die and a bullet seater/taper crimp die.

My personal preference is to have the taper crimp as a separate die. The idea is that when the bullet is seated, the case mouth is and remains somewhat open. Then, after the bullet is seated, the case mouth is closed up. And that's why most progressive presses have at least 4 stations. Instead of the expander die, many use a combination expander/powder drop die.

I didn't look very hard but if you can't come up with a separate taper crimp die you can always use another combination seater/taper crimp die without the internals. Just make sure that during bullet seating, the die is set such that it doesn't begin crimping.

Redding makes taper crimp dies but they are terribly expensive.

Dillon makes a separate taper crimp die and it's not all that expensive:
http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/content/p/9/pid/24483/catid/4/Dillon_Crimp_Dies

It just doesn't seem to me that crimping should be done while the bullet is still moving.

Richard

1s1k52
01-18-2012, 21:02
dumb question. Dies are interchangeable? I have seen people suggest Lee dies? there is also a "C" set from RCBS.

PCJim
01-18-2012, 22:09
Not dumb. A lot of new reloaders think that the dies must be of the same manufacture as the press. It isn't so.

For all intents and purposes (excluding the Dillon SDB press which uses proprietary dies), all dies use the same threading and can be used in any press. Many reloaders on this board will have dies from Lee, Dillon, RCBS, Hornady and others on their benches, some even mix them on the same toolhead.

F106 Fan
01-19-2012, 00:45
dumb question. Dies are interchangeable? I have seen people suggest Lee dies? there is also a "C" set from RCBS.

The difference in A vs B vs C, etc die sets is a matter of caliber. In some cases, the caliber is obviously a rifle and the die set may have only 2 dies.

Back to taper crimp: I don't know why I can't find a separate RCBS taper crimp die. I would swear I have some. Nevertheless, here's one from Sinclair:

http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/pid=34570/Product/Redding-Taper-Crimp-Die-40-S-and-W

Lee dies tend to be the least expensive with Redding at or near the top in price. I have some of each. I am using a Lee sizing die on my 9mm toolhead for my Dillon R550B press. The other dies are Dillon. I turns out that the Lee die sizes a little further down the case and that might be useful to me. OTOH, it might not be necessary. I might just put the Dillon sizing die back in the toolhead.

I also have a bunch of RCBS dies and other RCBS loading equipment/tools. It's all good stuff.

The nice thing about dies is that they are kind of universal. Once you find out how slow that single stage press is for loading pistol ammo, you'll be in the market for something else. The dies will work on the next press. The single stage press is a decent way to start reloading but, if you load any quantity at all, it will soon become tedious. By then, you'll be hooked on reloading.

Richard

bulldog1144
01-19-2012, 01:11
F106 fan, you are right about the single stage press. Last year, I bought a Lee single stage press and started reloading. I reloaded 100 every now and then which wasn't too bad. About a month before Christmas, I bought 1000 pieces of used 45 acp brass and 3000 pieces of used 9mm brass along with the bullets for both. I spent several evenings a couple of weeks before Christmas getting the 45's loaded. I just was going to wait til after Christmas to fool with the 9's. My wife surprised me with a hornady lock-n-load ap progressive for Christmas. Boy, am I glad I didn't load the 9's before Christmas. What a gal!

vtbluegrass
01-19-2012, 01:29
Unless I overlooked where someone answered this already about the powders saying for shotgun. Many of the powders overlap with shotgun and handguns such as my favorites Universal and WST.

1s1k52
01-19-2012, 23:34
yeah i never intended on this press lasting me the entire time I reload but it is good to know I have a great one to start.

I will post the links of everything I have set to buy when I get more time.

WiskyT
01-20-2012, 18:56
F106 fan, you are right about the single stage press. Last year, I bought a Lee single stage press and started reloading. I reloaded 100 every now and then which wasn't too bad. About a month before Christmas, I bought 1000 pieces of used 45 acp brass and 3000 pieces of used 9mm brass along with the bullets for both. I spent several evenings a couple of weeks before Christmas getting the 45's loaded. I just was going to wait til after Christmas to fool with the 9's. My wife surprised me with a hornady lock-n-load ap progressive for Christmas. Boy, am I glad I didn't load the 9's before Christmas. What a gal!

You done right. People need to reload NOW, not when they have a thousand dollars of disposable income to spend. You started savin money and all the other benefits of reloading the day you opened the box on your affordable SS set up. I bet you don't get rid of your SS either.

PhantomF4E
01-20-2012, 20:05
I guess it all boils down to how ocd you are about precision. I do the whole deal Oal , mic's tweaking individual rounds to individual guns. Do you have to ? no. You can get by , and many do quite well with just banging them out with an initial setup and running a batch. Of course you always check the basics on the way . But when you are a tinkerer , and you want to squeeze every bit of whatever you can out of a reload, there is where you can start playing, right or wrong , who's to say. I’ve burned a hundred rounds of varying tenths of a grain of this and a few thousandths of an inch of that just to see what can be done. Ya don't have to, not a bit , but to me it makes it all that much more interesting ... But I still load 9mm on a single stage and I measure each round not every 10 . I know !!!!! I started out with a basic kit , like most of us have, and worked our way up . I believe that every reloader should start with a single stage press, and work their way up. But that's just the way I roll them . I never moved up to progressive YET !!!! after over 30 years of reloading, I just like the individual , absolute control of single stage , I wish I could say it was only a few hundred rounds I was talking about .. I finished cleaning just shy of 50lbs of 9mm brass that is ready to load... Yeah it'll take a while , but every one of the buggars will be as close to the same as I can make them .
Luckily my youngest son is almost to his masters in psychology and a couple more years I will have my own shrink LOL...
Now that was just the handgun loads , Let's talk about rifle !!!!! Ha that ought to scare a noob off ehy ?!!! Naaaaaa once bitten yer bit .... Resistance is futile ....

1s1k52
01-21-2012, 18:48
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Reloading/Presses-Dies|/pc/104792580/c/104761080/sc/104516280/RCBS-Carbide-Pistol-3-Die-Set/731754.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fshooting-reloading-presses-dies%2F_%2FN-1100195%2B4294771112%2FNe-4294771112%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_104516280%3FWTz_l%3DSBC%253Bcat104792580%253Bcat104761080%26WTz_st%3DGuidedNav%26WTz_st ype%3DGNU&WTz_l=SBC%3Bcat104792580%3Bcat104761080%3Bcat104516280

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Reloading/Reloading-Components|/pc/104792580/c/104761080/sc/104275080/Remington174-Pistol-Bullets-Per-100/705319.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fshooting-reloading-reloading-components%2F_%2FN-1100194%2B4294771353%2FNe-4294771353%2FNs-MIN_SALE_PRICE%3FWTz_l%3DSBC%253BMMcat104792580%253Bcat104761080%26WTz_st%3DGuidedNav%26WTz_stype%3D GNU&WTz_l=SBC%3BMMcat104792580%3Bcat104761080%3Bcat104275080

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Reloading/Reloading-Components|/pc/104792580/c/104761080/sc/104275080/Winchester-Primers/741163.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fshooting-reloading-reloading-components%2F_%2FN-1100194%2B4294771254%2FNe-4294771254%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_104275080%3FWTz_l%3DSBC%253BMMcat104792580%253Bcat104761080%26WTz_st%3DGuidedNav%26WTz_ stype%3DGNU&WTz_l=SBC%3BMMcat104792580%3Bcat104761080%3Bcat104275080

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Reloading/Reloading-Components|/pc/104792580/c/104761080/sc/104275080/Alliant-Smokeless-Powder/731761.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fshooting-reloading-reloading-components%2F_%2FN-1100194%2B4294771182%2FNe-4294771182%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_104275080%3FWTz_l%3DSBC%253BMMcat104792580%253Bcat104761080%26WTz_st%3DGuidedNav%26WTz_ stype%3DGNU&WTz_l=SBC%3BMMcat104792580%3Bcat104761080%3Bcat104275080



Ok If anyone gets bored thats what I intend to go get. I assume small pistol primers. Powder I am still pretty lost on whats with the green and red dot? I am building a budget for this. So caliper or micrometer? the arguing got me lost. I have SOME brass. Not much. I have enough rounds to make more so not worried about brass.

F106 Fan
01-22-2012, 12:06
Ok If anyone gets bored thats what I intend to go get. I assume small pistol primers. Powder I am still pretty lost on whats with the green and red dot? I am building a budget for this. So caliper or micrometer? the arguing got me lost. I have SOME brass. Not much. I have enough rounds to make more so not worried about brass.


I thought you were looking at using Unique. Green, Red and Blue Dot are just other powders (primarily for shotgun loading). If you can fiind a published load for the powder then they are viable candidates. There is a sticky at the top of the forum about a Blue Dot warning.

Calipers, digital or analog. I use regular dial calipers but that's just what I happen to have. I bought them long before digital calipers became affordable. Either way...

The bullets are fine but overpriced compared to Precision Delta. However, PD doesn't sell in small quantities (like 100).

Personally, I prefer Federal primers but Winchester will probably work just as well. See what you LGS stocks because you really don't want to pay the hazmat fee (typically $20 at Cabela's) if you can avoid it. Same with the powder. I would expect just about every LGS to stock Unique.

The dies are fine but I would still add a taper crimp die as a final step. I would not try to crimp while the bullet is being seated. But, obviously, it works out ok because there are thousands of 3 die sets being sold every year. Also, it is easy to say add a 4th die for the taper crimp when I use a progressive press with 4 stations. It's a complete 4th pass through the single stage press and that is boring.

Ignoring hardware for the moment, you should probably approach reloading like this: determine what bullet you want to use (type, weight, plated/jacketed/cast, etc) and then go find a PUBLISHED load. The publication can be from the bullet manufacturer or the powder manufacturer. I would stay away from "Billy Bob's Hot Loads" on the Internet.

Once you find a load, then order the powder. Don't do this the other way around. "Gee, I have 8# of YYY powder that I got cheap, how do I use it with a .40 180 gr JHP?" isn't a very good approach. Ask around about various powders. Some will caution you away from fast powders like Titegroup and Bullseye and try to lead you toward something slower like Unique.

The Alliant site has a .40 cal 180 gr Speer Gold Dot HP load based on Unique. So, order 100 GDHPs and see how it works out.

http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/speer-caliber-grain-gold-hollow-point-100box-4406-loaded-p-93391.html

The Speer Reloading Manual #14 also has a Unique load for this bullet. Buy the book!

Those bullets are far too expensive for bulk reloading. However, they are kind of a standard for .40 cal and the load data is published (not that the two sources agree!).

Summary: Unique, primers of your choice (yes, small pistol), Speer 180 gr GDHP and you should be ready to go.

After you have loaded for a while, you can look around for other components. You won't find FMJs (round nose) for .40 cal but PD offers a FMJ-FN (flat nose) similar to the Speer TMJ-FN so you could probably use the same load data but I would still start 0.5 gr less and work up:

http://www.precisiondelta.com/detail.php?sku=B-40-180-FMJ

Montana Gold has a few 180 gr .40 cal bullets but they are more expensive than PD.

Richard

1s1k52
01-23-2012, 09:51
Thanks for taking the time. I live less than 3 miles from cabelas thats why I used their site.

So correct me if I am wrong. You recommend the Speer Gold Dot HP load simply because it is a published load? despite expenses? then I can find cheaper FMJ once I get the hang of things? all well as a 4th die for crimping? That is what I took from what you said. Unique is the TYPE of powder not brand from what I can tell? I am not trying to come off stupid of ask you to repeat yourself ,but this is the LAST thing I want to go into mixed up on things. That and I need to have my budget set because come the mid of Feb I am going and buying all this before the money goes to something else I don't want to spend it on.

F106 Fan
01-23-2012, 10:35
Thanks for taking the time. I live less than 3 miles from cabelas thats why I used their site.



Cabela's doesn't have a California presence (that I know of, I don't pay sales tax when I order from them) and I have bought some of the Winchester bullets from time to time. They're fine but pricey.

Cabela's only charges $20 for the hazmat fee so I order powder that my LGS doesn't stock.



So correct me if I am wrong. You recommend the Speer Gold Dot HP load simply because it is a published load? despite expenses? then I can find cheaper FMJ once I get the hang of things? all well as a 4th die for crimping?



Sure, but I might only use 100 or so of the GDHP just to get started. Everything about that load is documented in the Speer manual and it's a good baseline. A hundred rounds just isn't all that much and can easily be shot up in 30 minutes. But it's a place to start.

The problem I have with Precision Delta, Montana Gold and all the others is that their bullet profiles aren't EXACTLY the same as what I might find in a manual. Therefore, it would be wise to back off the load and work up while watching for signs of overpressure. But what newbie has even a clue about what to look for? It takes time to get the hang of this and if it means using a few hundred somewhat expensive bullets to get an education, so what? The cost savings will come...



That is what I took from what you said. Unique is the TYPE of powder not brand from what I can tell?



Unique is indeed a type of powder; one of several dozen. Among it's characteristics is the fact that it is a 'slow' burner (when compared to Bullseye or Titegroup; other types of powder). As a result, to propel a bullet to a particular velocity in a barrel length requires somewhat more powder than a 'fast' burner. The idea is that using a slow powder will result in the case being more than half full and a double charge will be immediately obvious because powder will be spilling all over the place. There are probably other pressure spike issues that make Unique a powder that is less sensitive to minor changes in powder quantity but I'm not really qualified to think about those things.

Everyone spends a lot of time worrying about overcharges. That's a good thing because there are real-life examples of massive firearm failures. That's also why some of the fellows around here are down on newbies (or anyone else) using fast burning powder. It's all about safety!

That said, I use a relatively fast shotgun powder (700-X) and it's all I have ever used. For a lot of years I didn't even know it was fast or that I might want to use something else. It's all I knew! I did use Bullseye for .38 wadcutters but even then, I didn't know it was one of the fastest on the planet. I only used 2.7 gr and I just never thought about it.

In the end, it seems advisable to start off slow and easy. Not that I ever did that but it still seems advisable.

BTW, Unique is also a shotgun powder masquerading as a pistol powder. But Unique has been around for decades and loads are pretty well understood.

Richard

F106 Fan
01-23-2012, 10:57
So correct me if I am wrong. You recommend the Speer Gold Dot HP load simply because it is a published load? despite expenses? then I can find cheaper FMJ once I get the hang of things? all well as a 4th die for crimping?

Re: the taper crimp die

On a progressive press like the 550B, there are 4 stations. Station 1 does decap/resize, station 2 bells the case mouth and drops powder, station 3 seats the bullet and station 4 crimps the case. For many pistol cartridges, the crimp is simply a taper, closing up the slight bell put in the case at station 2 with no intention of embedding the case mouth into the bullet. The taper crimp doesn't really 'crimp' much of anything. In fact, for plated bullets, it better not even leave a mark on the bullet.

There is also the issue that cartridges like the 9mm, 40 S&W and .45 ACP headspace on the case mouth. If the mouth is crimped too small, the bullet will seat too far into the chamber and may not fire.

It is possible to form the taper crimp while the bullet is being seated (3 die pistol sets). I can't come up with one reason why this shouldn't be acceptable as long as the crimp doesn't really dent the bullet. But I can see where, if the crimp were a little tighter, it would be gouging into the bullet while the bullet was still being seated.

So, in my opinion (and Dillon's and a lot of others), it is better to do the taper crimp as a separate operation. Well, sure, that's nice if you have a progressive press!

The problem with this idea is that it takes a full 4th pass through a single stage loader to do it this way. Three passes to make a cartridge is bad enough adding a fourth seems like an over-the-top solution. But I would do it anyway...

All that said, I would also prefer to use a specific taper crimp die. I posted a link to the Redding version and Dillon has one for about the same price. I know I can use a duplicate seating die and just remove the seating plug but I don't prefer to do it that way.

Richard

unclebob
01-23-2012, 12:23
Without reading all of the posts.
Cabela’s have one the highest prices for reloading supplies. You can buy things a lot cheaper elsewhere.
Instead of RCBS dies I would just go with Lee. Even though Lee is not perfect in some cases. I have not had great luck with RCBS dies. Plus the Lee are a lot cheaper.

rpgman
01-23-2012, 13:02
Without reading all of the posts.
Cabela’s have one the highest prices for reloading supplies. You can buy things a lot cheaper elsewhere.
Instead of RCBS dies I would just go with Lee. Even though Lee is not perfect in some cases. I have not had great luck with RCBS dies. Plus the Lee are a lot cheaper.

I use Lee dies in 9mm, .40 and 38 Special.
Never an issue.
Greg

1s1k52
01-23-2012, 20:08
I have a few other options LGS wise. Cheaper than Dirt and some other "mom and pop" I will have to call. The dies I may end up ordering online. Really the only thing I am for sure trying to get local is the powder. I will definately get that 4th die. If way down the road I can just do it with 3 steps that will be fine. We will be reloading at night just shooting the ****. They most likely won't get shot even in the same week. So I will be doing a lot or record keeping when this all gets started.