Thinking about getting a G20 [Archive] - Glock Talk

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nunnya
01-01-2012, 23:28
I have 0 Glocks and 0 10mm .
I've been toying with the idea of a 10mm and Glock seems to be the way to go.
Are the SF models of the current generation as desirable as the older tried and true models?
I really don't need another caliber but the 10mm has intrigued me for years
so I may have to scratch that itch.
The best local price I've seen so far is 550$, is that good?

Thanks,
nunnya

4949shooter
01-02-2012, 06:32
My G20SF was test fired in August. I consider it to be one of the best firearms purchases I have ever made.

$550 is a decent price. It's pretty much what you see them going for on Gunbroker, new. Anything closer to $600 and I would say you were paying too much.

ragsflh
01-02-2012, 06:41
10mm great rd.500.00 to 550.00 average price.model 20sf shoots great

BKG-22
01-02-2012, 07:20
Although have several Glocks, I have also been a 10mm lurker for several years. Mrs. Santa bought me one for Christmas this year (well, last year now) and I am pretty excited. Have gone to the range twice now am looking forward to trying the large array of ammo made for this caliber.

My wife paid $569 in West Michigan, but it was a blue label that included an extra mag, so I guess it was not too bad all things considered and actually cheaper than other shops I visited.

Good luck!

arushus
01-02-2012, 10:16
Great choice! I highly recommend the G20sf! It is a very versatile gun, being as you can get conversion barrels for it in .40s&w or .357sig. All you need for them is the barrel. So, if you decide you just really hate the 10mm (highly unlikely) you can always convert it to another caliber very easily! My lonewolf conversion barrel has been more reliable than my stock 10mm barrel even! Ive never had a single issue with the conversion barrel, and Ive run just as many, if not more, rounds of .40cal than I have 10mm, since theyre cheaper to plink with and punch holes in paper.

The same goes for the G29...there are all the same conversions available for it. You really can not go wrong with a G20sf, or a G29sf, either one is an excellent gun!

nickE10mm
01-02-2012, 11:56
Generation 3 G20SF would be my recommendation although any G20 is a fantastic purchase.

One of the best firearms ever made if you ask me.

Petrie
01-02-2012, 12:17
Just get a Glock 22/23. Don't fall into the 10mm ammo trap.

blastfact
01-02-2012, 12:44
Just get a Glock 22/23. Don't fall into the 10mm ammo trap.

Don't fall into the metrosexual .40 S&W trap. Figuring out which girls jeans to wear and all the make up problems will cut into your shooting activities. :whistling:

oceanbob
01-02-2012, 12:45
Just get a Glock 22/23. Don't fall into the 10mm ammo trap.


Bad advice. Ammo is easy to get. No more expensive than .45. Underwood has some great prices and is good quality.

Also, he can swap to a .40 barrel (using the same magazines). A .40 in the G20SF platform shoots extremely well and feels like 9mm. So why buy a .40 G22/23 when he can buy a conversion barrel for $100 and have options on what to shoot?

Shooting 10MM is really a HOOT..! A properly loaded 10MM bullet has more speed at 100 yards than a .45 auto does at the muzzle. Nothing can touch the "Firepower" and "Stopping Power" of a GLOCK 20.

Nothing. :cool:

Be well, Bob

oceanbob
01-02-2012, 12:46
Don't fall into the metrosexual .40 S&W trap. Figuring out which girls jeans to wear and all the make up problems will cut into your shooting activities. :whistling:


LOL...I don't care who you are; that was funny right there.......:supergrin:

+100)

Take care, Bob

Morley Menthols
01-02-2012, 18:29
I have 0 Glocks and 0 10mm .
I've been toying with the idea of a 10mm and Glock seems to be the way to go.
Are the SF models of the current generation as desirable as the older tried and true models?
I really don't need another caliber but the 10mm has intrigued me for years
so I may have to scratch that itch.
The best local price I've seen so far is 550$, is that good?

Thanks,
nunnya
Hi Nunnya, welcome to the 10 Ring. I do not sense any enthusiasm or excitement about purchasing a Glock 10mm caliber from reading your post. The best advice I can give you is to not nitpick the price, but go ahead and get a G20SF. After a trip to the range, enthusiasm and excitement will be your constant emotion. A 180 grain hollow point at 1300 fps does wonders for your range trips!

swinokur
01-02-2012, 19:31
Don't fall into the metrosexual .40 S&W trap. Figuring out which girls jeans to wear and all the make up problems will cut into your shooting activities. :whistling:

not to mention the curse every 28 days.

:rofl:

SolidBrass
01-02-2012, 20:29
The weakest 10mm ammo is likely still better than the hottest, most expensive rounds other Glocks shoot. Show me another round that will give you over 700ftlbs at 200gn

Perhaps by chance I shoot the 20sf far better than the 21. (?)

Taterhead
01-02-2012, 20:31
$550 is a fair price. You will not regret getting a G20 or G20SF. You didn't mention if you are a reloader. If so, even better. You can really exploit this fine, versatile cartridge in a very competent platform.

TDC20
01-02-2012, 23:03
I don't buy guns just because they're pretty, or because other people say nice things about them. I buy guns that are reliable and deliver. Period. And the G20 delivers 15+1 rounds of what is ballistically identical to .357 magnum, all in a platform that has about the same recoil as a .38 spl wheel gun. It's as reliable as the 92FS, only it packs a punch. $550 is a great value for what the G20 has to offer.

Don't listen to the metrosexual, ammo is plentiful. :rofl:

This gun is the real deal. You won't be disappointed!

Taterhead
01-02-2012, 23:40
I don't buy guns just because they're pretty, or because other people say nice things about them. I buy guns that are reliable and deliver. Period. And the G20 delivers 15+1 rounds of what is ballistically identical to .357 magnum, all in a platform that has about the same recoil as a .38 spl wheel gun. It's as reliable as the 92FS, only it packs a punch. $550 is a great value for what the G20 has to offer.

Don't listen to the metrosexual, ammo is plentiful. :rofl:

This gun is the real deal. You won't be disappointed!

Perfectly stated!

JimIsland
01-03-2012, 09:33
Just get a Glock 22/23. Don't fall into the 10mm ammo trap.

Are you the guy on the Burger King commercial with the little "girly hands"?:rofl:

Anyways, I just bought 1000 rounds of 10mm for .36 cents a rounds and 500 hollow point for .43 cents a round. care to explain to me what trap you are referring to??:whistling:

nunnya
01-06-2012, 18:22
Thanks for the feedback.
I don't even want to consider a .40 when a simple bbl. conversion allows the 10mm to fire it's shorter weaker offspring.
If I wanted something less than a 10mm I'd just stick to the .45's, which are still better than the .40.
Are moly-coated lead bullets also a no no with the stock barrel?

Thanks,
nunnya

Maine1
01-06-2012, 19:42
I have 0 Glocks and 0 10mm .
I've been toying with the idea of a 10mm and Glock seems to be the way to go.
Are the SF models of the current generation as desirable as the older tried and true models?
I really don't need another caliber but the 10mm has intrigued me for years
so I may have to scratch that itch.
The best local price I've seen so far is 550$, is that good?

Thanks,
nunnya

I am pretty sure this is a crime. Remedy this ASAP!
Seriously, I wish i had gotten into 10mm years ago. I still like the 45, and will always have one, but the 10mm does it all. $550 NIB is OK, with night sites and 3 mags. But if its right there in front of you, consider that it might be worth $50 in your time and fuel costs.

SolidBrass
01-06-2012, 23:08
Hard to find other 10mm's at the $550 price point. It's nice to know that it just happens to be about the best available as well.

nunnya
10-05-2013, 00:17
Well, almost 2 years after I started this post I finally did it!
Last week I picked up a Gen3 Glock 20 for $545.
So far I've only put 200 rds. through it.
Two boxes of Precision One 180gr. and two of Underwood 165gr. and I'm really impressed.
This thing is way more accurate than I.
Recoil isn't much worse than a .45 but it's a very flat shooting round. From 25 to 75 yds. it seems to have the same POI. Still need some work on my double taps though.

nunnya

Taterhead
10-05-2013, 00:19
Awesome! Congratulations. Pretty good price there.

Bongo Boy
10-05-2013, 08:49
Congratulations. I'm confident you'll be very pleased with the 20, and extremely pleased with 10mm. I burned 6 boxes of handloads at the range just yesterday with my 20SF, stock sights and a LWD barrel. I would happily have shot the other 8 boxes in the range bag had I not run out of time on the lane.

As happens nearly every time I'm at the range with the 10mm guns, another shooter brought my brass over to me to introduce himself and ask all about the single hole I'd just made at 8 yds with 20 rds. While I'd rate myself pretty high as a shooter compared to others at the club, I credit a good bit of performance to the cartridge itself, and to the Glock.

While I can do better shooting at distance with the EAA Hunter, it's also an $1100 gun and the sights are more to my liking. For under $600, the G20 (and the G29, my favorite) are very good buys IMO. For each of the plastic handguns I own (2 M&Ps, 2 Glocks) I've put $40 to $120 additional trigger into them, but go ahead and add that in and I still think you get a bargain.

When I consider the sheer massiveness of the barrel and slide on the two Glocks, I get the feeling they are fully up to the task of the most excellent 10x25--the greatest auto pistol cartridge for any purpose ever devised. :)

Ammo? I don't know--I like to shoot. I like to shoot a lot, and so I handload. In my spare time of 30 minutes here, and hour there, over the past 3-4 weeks I've put 6,500 rds of 10mm on the shelf , and I still get my honey-do's done. :) Now, some might consider that a shortage, but I'm working on it.

Bongo Boy
10-05-2013, 10:52
Seriously, I wish i had gotten into 10mm years ago. I still like the 45, and will always have one, but the 10mm does it all.

I agree 100% with all comments. I'll probably always have a 40SW also, because I often need a really small little wee pea shooter for lightweight carry. But I just keep thinking the 10mm suffered from a horrible marketing experience, and from the whole FBI legend. It was a good idea when it was conceived, and IMO has proven to be far more than was ever expected Accuracy and performance potential are both exceptional--both beating the pants off 40SW by a long sea mile, and both making it the only serious contender against the 45ACP for combat/defense where subsonic isn't a requirement.

In fact, I like it so much I've seriously considered buying a second press so I can load other stuff from time to time--I've found a 'perfect' load for me, and don't want to spend even 20 minutes tearing down and setting up for different caliber.

I give 10mm a '10' these days and 45ACP now has to step back with a '9.2' :).

conpro
10-05-2013, 20:09
:rofl:Don't fall into the metrosexual .40 S&W trap. Figuring out which girls jeans to wear and all the make up problems will cut into your shooting activities. :whistling:

Chrisk1977
10-06-2013, 17:22
I have a .40 and a 10mm. I really like my G20 SF. I paid $515 for mine. I didn't think that I got screwed and it is second hand. Looked new. I came close to getting one several times but missed out so I was more than willing the price I paid.

Brian Lee
10-07-2013, 01:29
Give yourself a fair chance to get used to holding the original type G20 with the full sized grip before you automatically go for the Sissy Fingers model like so many people steer each other to on GT. At first I thought the full sized G20 felt too big, just like everyone else does, but now that I'm used to it no other gun feels big enough to hang onto correctly. I'm really glad I gave the big'un a second look. And I do not have such large hands for a dude.

aldematt57
10-07-2013, 16:44
10mm is where it's at.:tongueout:

aldematt57
10-07-2013, 17:17
Generation 3 G20SF would be my recommendation although any G20 is a fantastic purchase.

One of the best firearms ever made if you ask me.

I agree. Can't wait to get mine. Just ordered it!:rollsmiley::rollsmiley::milestone::supergrin:

nunnya
10-07-2013, 19:13
But seriously, I have other calibers which serve other functions well. But there is something about the 10mm which has always intrigued me. I have to experiment with it more and I need to acquire more brass to reload it, but I'm really impressed with it's ability to put a good thumping on something 50 to 100yds. away. That's just not a quality I'm used to seeing out of a semiauto pistol.

nunnya

bac1023
10-07-2013, 19:52
Well, almost 2 years after I started this post I finally did it!
Last week I picked up a Gen3 Glock 20 for $545.
So far I've only put 200 rds. through it.
Two boxes of Precision One 180gr. and two of Underwood 165gr. and I'm really impressed.
This thing is way more accurate than I.
Recoil isn't much worse than a .45 but it's a very flat shooting round. From 25 to 75 yds. it seems to have the same POI. Still need some work on my double taps though.

nunnya

Congrats! :cool:

That's one of my favorite Glocks...


http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu81/ollituc/015_zpsfe41b132.jpg (http://s636.photobucket.com/user/ollituc/media/015_zpsfe41b132.jpg.html)

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu81/ollituc/003_zpsf8da2cb4.jpg (http://s636.photobucket.com/user/ollituc/media/003_zpsf8da2cb4.jpg.html)

JimIsland
10-07-2013, 20:07
[QUOTE=Brian Lee;20672582]Give yourself a fair chance to get used to holding the original type G20 with the full sized grip before you automatically go for the Sissy Fingers model like so many people steer each other to on GT. At first I thought the full sized G20 felt too big, just like everyone else does, but now that I'm used to it no other gun feels big enough to hang onto correctly. I'm really glad I gave the big'un a second look. And I do not have such large hands for a dude.[/QUOTE

Same here bud....I have a Gen 2 G20 and I really like the grip not having finger grooves. I bought a G29SF to go along with it and like the feel of the 20 way better. I have large hands but not XL by any means.

Bongo Boy
10-07-2013, 22:42
... I need to acquire more brass to reload it, but I'm really impressed with it's ability to put a good thumping on something 50 to 100yds. away. That's just not a quality I'm used to seeing out of a semiauto pistol.

Plus, now you have the exciting option of adding the following attachment

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x150/Bongo_Boy/MT-CCU-10/CCUGlock08_zpsecbcc9e9.jpg (http://s182.photobucket.com/user/Bongo_Boy/media/MT-CCU-10/CCUGlock08_zpsecbcc9e9.jpg.html)

which is more fun than I can describe in words.

aldematt57
10-08-2013, 17:43
The 10mm 180 hp is about as nasty a round as you will see. I can tell you that after field dressing a deer after a kill with the 10mm, I have never seen internals damaged that badly.:wow:

nunnya
10-08-2013, 18:01
Okay Bongo Boy,
What is that beautiful carbine.
I have a real weakness for pistol caliber carbines and the 10mm seems like a platform which would lend itself well in that capacity. How long is the barrel and how much does it gain in velocity? Does it handle well? Looks like it may be a pistol rifle combo worth consideration. Have you taken any game with it yet?

nunnya

blastfact
10-11-2013, 20:32
nunnya thats a mectech upper. (sp) On a Glock frame. I would like to have one big time. But won't pay what they want. Not when my G20 is deadly accurate out to 100 yards off hand in pure pistol config including stock sights.

As for many thinking a full size G20 is to big. My tiny wife can shoot full house rounds in my G20 and hit anything she is aiming at. Yeah it's a friggen hand full. But she doesn't care. It's a powerful round that needs a large pistol. She see's post here about men,,, men ( so called men ) mind you complaining about grip size and recoil of a 10mm. And she wonders if the wussy's could shoot her Smith 60 Pro stoked with hot .357's.

Enjoy your 10mm!

Bongo Boy
10-11-2013, 21:04
Okay Bongo Boy,
What is that beautiful carbine...

Yes, as mentioned above it's a MechTech, 16" barrel. The configuration shown includes an M4 stock adaptor (from MechTech), a Magpul stock riding on a DPMS receiver extension/buffer tube, and an EoTech XPS2-1 sight on the stock MechTech rail that comes standard. The sling is held on at the front with a Talley barrel band swivel stud (0.690" inside diameter) that I split with a jeweler's saw so it slides down over the barrel and clamps on with the sling swivel clamp.

It is extremely comfortable to shoot and a real blast--although the setup doesn't fit me perfectly: I can't really plaster my face on the stock because the sight is too high for that--a cheek piece would help me a bit. Fortunately, you don't really need to weld yourself to the stock--it's not .338 you're shooting here.

I don't hunt, so no game taken--this one is primarily for what I believe is an almost inevitable onslaught of the undead--a hoard of Gov Cuomo/Mayor Moron minions--and I believe this is the tool for the task. Five-round magazine extension also shown.

As for velocity increase--yes, it can be significant depending on the particular propellant used. See Youtube ('mechtech glock 20') for some chrono'd rounds hitting over 2,000 fps as I recall. I was getting about 20% velocity increase with some of my loads, with a moderate-load 180gr lead bullet flying out at 1,410 fps.

It seems very well-made to me--and I think I got a very good bargain for about $320 or so. Given that the sight cost far more than that, seems like a pretty good deal. With the red dot (er...I mean 'holographic weapon sight') and the weight, it's relatively fast to acquire and re-acquire.

Definitely fast enough for the old-school zombies, anyway. The only thing that would make it more fun would be a selector lever. :)

nickE10mm
10-11-2013, 21:27
I have 0 Glocks and 0 10mm .
I've been toying with the idea of a 10mm and Glock seems to be the way to go.
Are the SF models of the current generation as desirable as the older tried and true models?
I really don't need another caliber but the 10mm has intrigued me for years
so I may have to scratch that itch.
The best local price I've seen so far is 550$, is that good?

Thanks,
nunnya

Opinions will vary, but I consider the Gen3's to be the best overall. On the other hand, I know quite a few who have sworn by their Gen 2's (if they happened to have gotten good case support in their chambers) and others who have sworn by their Gen4's. I think you're save to buy any of them, either regular or -SF.

The G20 is simply one of the finest pistols money can buy. Period.

Bongo Boy
10-11-2013, 21:29
I have a real weakness for pistol caliber carbines and the 10mm seems like a platform which would lend itself well in that capacity.I believe it is PERFECT in that capacity, myself.

I wonder if I've mentioned that the 10mm Auto is the most versatile, effective and practical auto pistol cartridge ever developed. Did I mention that? :D

Trapped_in_Kali
10-11-2013, 21:31
I wonder if I've mentioned that the 10mm Auto is the most versatile, effective and practical auto pistol cartridge ever developed. Did I mention that? :D

No, I don't think you have ever mentioned that before.:tongueout:

BUT I agree. :rofl:

blastfact
10-11-2013, 22:53
I believe it is PERFECT in that capacity, myself.

I wonder if I've mentioned that the 10mm Auto is the most versatile, effective and practical auto pistol cartridge ever developed. Did I mention that? :D

No Bongo you have never stated that. Nor has anybody else that like's pistol craft. :)

walt cowan
10-12-2013, 10:52
Once you do, you'll look with sadness on lesser mortals.

tenforme
10-13-2013, 00:14
I believe it is PERFECT in that capacity, myself.

I wonder if I've mentioned that the 10mm Auto is the most versatile, effective and practical auto pistol cartridge ever developed. Did I mention that? :D

So you think 10mm is pretty decent then :wavey:

I just shot the bullseye out of my targets offhand at 25yds today I have the same addiction

tenforme
10-13-2013, 00:21
The funny thing is that every time I take my G20 to the range, I get asked what it is, and more often than not make converts out of those around me. Its hard to argue against a target with a hole where the bullseye used to be :dunno:

Oh and didIi mention that when I am using Underwoods, I can see people flinching as the sound echos back from the hills around us. :whistling:

Bongo Boy
10-13-2013, 00:50
It's like having a .416 Rigby in the palm of your hand. In fact, while no one has reported taking Cape buffalo, it's widely recognized as an effective round against American bison and rhino. Some shooters have reported vaporizing lead bullets as they leave the muzzle, and others have been told their shooting has disrupted VHF communications. This is no laughing matter...the fact is, the 10mm Auto design was likely planted in the minds of a few gun magazine writers by extraterrestrial visitors...wanting to benefit humanity through their gift of technological advance.

MikeS.
10-26-2013, 01:34
The 10mm 180 hp is about as nasty a round as you will see. I can tell you that after field dressing a deer after a kill with the 10mm, I have never seen internals damaged that badly.:wow:

What bullet were you using?

nickE10mm
10-26-2013, 01:52
What bullet were you using?

I've heard the same thing about lots of bullets but i'm also curious specifically what he was using

aldematt57
11-10-2013, 11:31
What bullet were you using?

Double Tap

roguedaddy
11-10-2013, 11:45
I to have been thinking about getting a 10mm lately. But as it could become my carry gun, replacing my beloved G19, I was leaning towards the G29. What I was wondering is about the caliber conversion. A Glock 10mm can be converted to shoot .40 and .357Sig correct. Can it also be converted to 9mm? If not, why? Can a G21 or G30 be converted to shoot 10mm?


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

purrrfect 10
11-10-2013, 12:33
Bad advice. Ammo is easy to get. No more expensive than .45. Underwood has some great prices and is good quality.

Also, he can swap to a .40 barrel (using the same magazines). A .40 in the G20SF platform shoots extremely well and feels like 9mm. So why buy a .40 G22/23 when he can buy a conversion barrel for $100 and have options on what to shoot?

Shooting 10MM is really a HOOT..! A properly loaded 10MM bullet has more speed at 100 yards than a .45 auto does at the muzzle. Nothing can touch the "Firepower" and "Stopping Power" of a GLOCK 20.

Nothing. :cool:

Be well, Bob

Yes bad advice Love my G20 for so many reasons and i after 2 years not done 1/2 of what I can with this beast. You will not be disappointed the best there is. Buying ammo on line is easy and just as affordable as all calibers are relative from BB's on up fact G20 10mm is the best pistol I have ever owned what a power house for the wood is why I bought mine to changing my mag to 180gr for Every day CCW Love it love it love
:perfect10: ALL THE WAY

jeremy1
11-16-2013, 22:29
I have about 300 rounds through mine and love it. I just ordered 1000 pieces of brass and am going to do some serious reloading. It's a beast. I regret not getting one sooner and am thinking about getting a sf or gen 4

hotrodtrk
01-26-2014, 03:30
I have the G23 and love it. But I really want to purchase a 10 MM and why not stay in the GLOCK family. With that being said, can the G20 interchange with other barrel kits, or is it only the 20sf. I like the additional rounds of the G20. Also for CC, is there a huge difference between the 20 and I believe the 29, which is compact? Thanks for the input!

Taterhead
01-26-2014, 14:21
I have the G23 and love it. But I really want to purchase a 10 MM and why not stay in the GLOCK family. With that being said, can the G20 interchange with other barrel kits, or is it only the 20sf. I like the additional rounds of the G20. Also for CC, is there a huge difference between the 20 and I believe the 29, which is compact? Thanks for the input!

I don't have a 29, but I do carry a 20. When I don't carry a 20, it is a 23. One big consideration is slide width, and the 29 is, IIRC wider than the 20 by a smidge. Where the 23 carries a bit easier is in the narrower width. I don't notice the slide and grip length difference as much as I do the width -- and the weight.

I don't know why Glock calls the 29 a subcompact since it is closer to 23/19 than 27/26 in size. And it has that wide frame.

EDIT: I am not sure what your question is about "barrel kits." If you are referring to conversion barrels, then G20 barrels will fit G20. They won't fit G29 and vice versa.

hotrodtrk
01-26-2014, 22:16
I should have better asked my question. I read that there are G29 conversion barrels to a .40 cal barrel. I was wondering if the G20 also had a conversion barrel to a .40 cal. More so a curiosity. I figured when heading to the rang it would just be easier to carry the 10mm plus .40 barrel and switch between ammo. But then again does this cause any accuracy issues?

Taterhead
01-26-2014, 23:45
I should have better asked my question. I read that there are G29 conversion barrels to a .40 cal barrel. I was wondering if the G20 also had a conversion barrel to a .40 cal. More so a curiosity. I figured when heading to the rang it would just be easier to carry the 10mm plus .40 barrel and switch between ammo. But then again does this cause any accuracy issues?

Yep. There are many barrel options for the 20. 357 Sig, 40SW, 9x25 Dillon, extended lengths up to (apparently) 9 inches.

Even better would be to apply the $150 cost of a conversion barrel toward reloading gear. The cost of reloading 40 and 10mm is basically the same. Plus reloading really lets you exploit the versatility of the incredibly well-rendered G20. If there was ever a service cartridge that was conducive to re-loading, the 10mm is it.

Quite simply, the 10mm experience is not the same if you aren't loading your own.

hotrodtrk
01-27-2014, 02:09
I agree. I've been wanting to get involved with reloading for some time. I really wouldn't know where to start. I'm still in the learning stage of owning multiple firearms and knowledge for reloading. I did do a little research on some reloading equipment about a year or so ago. I forgot the name of the site, but the reloading machine was about 500 bucks and was able to do multiple types of ammo and such. To me this would be the ultimate learning experience to have the knowledge to reload your own rounds and understand it all. And I would hope in the long run save me a few bucks. All the dang taxes now-a-days, are killing me!

WeeWilly
01-27-2014, 10:17
I shoot 40 out of my G20/29's, function is flawless. I even use 40 cases for book 10mm load with heavier bullets, again flawless function, no change in accuracy.


I own a KKM 40S&W conversion barrel for my G20's, I have not taken it to the range in years.

vaquero aleman
01-27-2014, 11:03
I shoot 40 out of my G20/29's, function is flawless. I even use 40 cases for book 10mm load with heavier bullets, again flawless function, no change in accuracy.


I own a KKM 40S&W conversion barrel for my G20's, I have not taken it to the range in years.



That is +1 for me.

UnitBob
01-27-2014, 19:23
I even use 40 cases for book 10mm load with heavier bullets, again flawless function, no change in accuracy.


Is that even safe? Looking at the Accurate manual, 10mm loads start higher than max .40 loads.

SDGlock23
01-27-2014, 19:48
I've loaded the .40 to 10mm OAL with 10mm data and haven't had any issues with it. Case wise the .40 is as strong if not stronger than the 10mm, which is why it's safe to do so.

WeeWilly
01-27-2014, 20:14
Is that even safe? Looking at the Accurate manual, 10mm loads start higher than max .40 loads.


Max pressures for both cartridges are within a couple K PSI of each other.


Not trying to talk anyone into doing something they feel might be unsafe, just relating what I do.

2c1f
01-28-2014, 13:41
I can't wait to get mine

jeremy1
01-28-2014, 23:20
Get one. You won't regret it. It's great for a reloader and buy ammo in quantity to get the deals. Love mine. I own every calibre except 357 sig. The ten is Awesome

Vic777
01-29-2014, 10:34
I have 0 Glocks and 0 10mm .
I've been toying with the idea of a 10mm and Glock seems to be the way to go.
Are the SF models of the current generation as desirable as the older tried and true models?
I really don't need another caliber but the 10mm has intrigued me for years
so I may have to scratch that itch.
The best local price I've seen so far is 550$, is that good?

Thanks,
nunnyaI have the 6 inch aftermarket barrel with complete chamber so I can load my own 10mm. A lot of fun can be had finding the perfect 10mm load. Don't reload for the stock glock barrels.

tenforme
01-29-2014, 11:02
I have 0 Glocks and 0 10mm .
I've been toying with the idea of a 10mm and Glock seems to be the way to go.
Are the SF models of the current generation as desirable as the older tried and true models?
I really don't need another caliber but the 10mm has intrigued me for years
so I may have to scratch that itch.
The best local price I've seen so far is 550$, is that good?

Thanks,
nunnya

Not sure if anybody has mentioned that you must NEVER empty an entire magazine in rapid fire with a G20......
































.......because there is so much power in a full magazine of 10mm, that you risk spinning the world backwards on its axis and sending us all back in time if you do :tongueout:


JK love my G20SF :wavey:

VA Swamphunter
01-29-2014, 19:11
Not sure if anybody has mentioned that you must NEVER empty an entire magazine in rapid fire with a G20......
































.......because there is so much power in a full magazine of 10mm, that you risk spinning the world backwards on its axis and sending us all back in time if you do :tongueout:


JK love my G20SF :wavey:

This sir may have. Even the cause of the recent Polar Vortex's. And I was only working on my tactical reloads.

tenforme
01-30-2014, 14:59
I have 0 Glocks and 0 10mm .
I've been toying with the idea of a 10mm and Glock seems to be the way to go.
Are the SF models of the current generation as desirable as the older tried and true models?
I really don't need another caliber but the 10mm has intrigued me for years
so I may have to scratch that itch.
The best local price I've seen so far is 550$, is that good?

Thanks,
nunnya

Not sure if anybody has mentioned that you must NEVER empty an entire magazine in rapid fire with a G20......
































.......because there is so much power in a full magazine of 10mm, that you risk spinning the world backwards on its axis and sending us all back in time if you do :tongueout:


JK love my G20SF :wavey:

Wait a minute - I think I already posted this next week :whistling:

Arnold Kuhl
02-01-2014, 09:48
Sorry if this has already been discussed, but you cats who shoot the hot stuff out of your G20's, like Underwood, BB, DT, et. al., do you use the Glock stock barrel, or do you use an aftermarket bbl., such as KKM, in order to get better case support?

Just curious. I use a KKM barrel to shoot both lead rounds at conventional velocities, and when shooting .45 Super, with upgraded RSA, out of my G21SF.

Thanks,
AK

swinokur
02-01-2014, 09:49
I've used both (KKM) and no issues with either. If you don't reload, it doesn't seem to be a problem.

My .02

Arnold Kuhl
02-01-2014, 09:53
Forgot to mention that I do reload. Have the dies for .40S&W, so am set to go for the 10mm. Ordered my Gen4 G20 yesterday. Should be here by next Tues. or Wed. I just hope the weather subsides a little, so I can hit the range and shoot this thing.

(There are very few more agonizing situations a person can experience than getting a brand new gun and not being able to shoot it for a month).

AK

swinokur
02-01-2014, 09:57
If you're reloading hot and see the infamous Glock smilie, then perhaps an aftermarket barrel is better. I don't reload myself.

YMMV

WeeWilly
02-01-2014, 10:46
Sorry if this has already been discussed, but you cats who shoot the hot stuff out of your G20's, like Underwood, BB, DT, et. al., do you use the Glock stock barrel, or do you use an aftermarket bbl., such as KKM, in order to get better case support?

Just curious. I use a KKM barrel to shoot both lead rounds at conventional velocities, and when shooting .45 Super, with upgraded RSA, out of my G21SF.

Thanks,
AK

I generally use the stock barrels these days. You do get a little better head support (a lot better in the G21 version), it is definitely harder on the brass using the stock barrel and very hot loads. I bought a G-Rx pass through sizing die to help recondition my stock barrel bulges, works great.

tom mac
02-01-2014, 10:50
Never had a glock before last year when I got a G20....

It's a great package due to cost/firepower/reliable. After getting use to the quirks of a glock, I love it.

When you start to reload the 10mm, it takes on a whole new level due to the available range of loads this gun will handle. But my major complaint is that by reloading I don't save money.... due to shooting more! :)

In all...Very Pleased!

Trapped_in_Kali
02-01-2014, 14:51
Sorry if this has already been discussed, but you cats who shoot the hot stuff out of your G20's, like Underwood, BB, DT, et. al., do you use the Glock stock barrel, or do you use an aftermarket bbl., such as KKM, in order to get better case support?

Just curious. I use a KKM barrel to shoot both lead rounds at conventional velocities, and when shooting .45 Super, with upgraded RSA, out of my G21SF.

Thanks,
AK


I've got a LWD 6" in my G20LS but the rest are stock Glock barrels.

tenforme
02-01-2014, 16:12
Sorry if this has already been discussed, but you cats who shoot the hot stuff out of your G20's, like Underwood, BB, DT, et. al., do you use the Glock stock barrel, or do you use an aftermarket bbl., such as KKM, in order to get better case support?

Just curious. I use a KKM barrel to shoot both lead rounds at conventional velocities, and when shooting .45 Super, with upgraded RSA, out of my G21SF.

Thanks,
AK

I shoot Underwood and use the stock barrel and a 6" Lone Wolf with zero issues. I do use a 22lb spring for the hot stuff though.

nickE10mm
02-01-2014, 20:06
Sorry if this has already been discussed, but you cats who shoot the hot stuff out of your G20's, like Underwood, BB, DT, et. al., do you use the Glock stock barrel, or do you use an aftermarket bbl., such as KKM, in order to get better case support?....

Thanks,
AK

Honestly, more and more nowadays I say that the stock barrel is fine for most all situations. I've owned Federal, Lone Wolf, Barsto and KKM aftermarket barrels for both the G29, G20 and G20SF's in both stock and 6" barrels in the past and, while I always had good if not perfect results, I have learned a lot about barrels.

Here's my argument for the stock barrel.

1) If you know the ins and outs of "fit" of a cast bullet to a barrel (ie, slugging, lube, velocity, etc) then its perfectly safe to shoot cast out of the stock barrel. Just keep an eye on leading buildup... even if you know "what's up".

2) While the tighter chambers of aftermarket (AM) barrels do save your brass from being worked too hard, mainly when shooting VERY hot loads, it can also increase pressure quite a bit. This is good for velocity but can be harder on brass. The key is, the brass will be worked harder in a different area. You will decrease work on the case wall and web area but you can also increase work on the case-head. I guess my point is, if your loads are overpressure, they will be so with EITHER AM or stock barrels. Sure, you might be a little "safer" with an AM barrel but that doesn't change the fact that you might be overpressure.

3) How much brass can you buy for $170+ ?? I'd say about 1000 pieces. Seems like a decent trade.

If you're getting good accuracy and are keeping your loads "reasonable" (ie, doing good workups in the stock barrel and keeping your safety hat on) then the stock barrel is the way to go.

Of course, if you are having PROBLEMS with some aspect of the stock barrel setup, my all means, look into an aftermarket barrel. Barsto is the most accurate (easily) and KKM is my pick if you aren't rich enough for a Barsto...

Also, if you are hunting game and you like the idea of giving the cartridge that extra OOMPH for the kill, then a 6" barrel is a good idea for the 10mm. Not to say that its necessary, but there are pretty nice gains to be made with the 10mm using a 6"+ tube.

One last point: if you are sticking with the stock barrel, a heavier recoil spring setup will keep your slide closed for a bit longer when shooting REALLY hot loads. Again, not NECESSARY but when shooting really hot stuff, it could benefit you. 20-22lb spring weight is the best for even the most nuclear of 10mm in my experience. 20lb for a 1911 and 21-22lb for a Glock 20.

Enjoy!!!

glockman99
02-01-2014, 21:20
I replaced the stock 17 lb. recoil spring in my G20SF with a 20 lb. spring, as I feel that is a much better spring weight for near full-power 10mm loads.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v131/glockman99/DJF_8110-001_zps0313abf1.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/glockman99/media/DJF_8110-001_zps0313abf1.jpg.html)

WilliamDahl
02-07-2014, 19:40
Just get a Glock 22/23. Don't fall into the 10mm ammo trap.

As far as I'm concerned, a .40SW Glock is a waste of money since I am able to shoot both 10mm and .40SW in my 10mm Glocks without even a barrel change.

WilliamDahl
02-07-2014, 19:48
Are you the guy on the Burger King commercial with the little "girly hands"?:rofl:

Anyways, I just bought 1000 rounds of 10mm for .36 cents a rounds and 500 hollow point for .43 cents a round. care to explain to me what trap you are referring to??:whistling:

Poor guy... 1000 rounds of 10mm costs me around $62 as long as I can reclaim my brass. 768 ft-lb loads using cast bullets and Alliant Promo (Red Dot equiv) powder.

MyTime
02-07-2014, 20:32
Poor guy... 1000 rounds of 10mm costs me around $62 as long as I can reclaim my brass. 768 ft-lb loads using cast bullets and Alliant Promo (Red Dot equiv) powder.

Please tell us where you buy from.

MyTime

WilliamDahl
02-07-2014, 21:16
Please tell us where you buy from.


Usually get my powder and primers from Powder Valley, Grafs, of Midsouth. Usually get my lead from someone selling on castboolits.gunloads.com or from my local scrap dealer (wheelweights) and smelt it down myself. Either way, I seldom pay more than $1 per pound for castable alloy. I'm usually able to recover all of my brass in addition to picking up some spare .40 brass (that I load to 10mm length and pressure) when I'm at the range.

The load I'm using is:


174 gr cast lead bullet (Lee mold) -- $1.00 / 7000 * 174 = $0.024857 each
6.2 gr Alliant Promo (Red Dot equiv) powder -- $87.85 per 8 lbs -- $87.85 / 8 / 7000 * 6.2 = $0.00972625 each
Tula LPM Primers -- $20 / 1000 = $0.021 each


So, $0.0555835 per round or $55.58 per 1000. At the very worst, I've had to pay $1.25 per pound for lead and that would bring it up to $0.0617978 per bullet or $61.80 per 1000.

Primer and powder has gone up a little since I last stocked up, so it might cost slightly more if I was buying new components right now. I always try to max out the HAZMAT charge so that shipping and HAZMAT does not add much to the per round cost.

Looking on PowderValley's website right now, I see Alliant Promo for $92.50 per 8-lb keg and Tula SPM primers at $23.50 per 1000. Updating those values in my spreadsheet come out to $64.82 per 1000 rounds.

happie2shoot
02-07-2014, 21:56
Usually get my powder and primers from Powder Valley, Grafs, of Midsouth. Usually get my lead from someone selling on castboolits.gunloads.com or from my local scrap dealer (wheelweights) and smelt it down myself. Either way, I seldom pay more than $1 per pound for castable alloy. I'm usually able to recover all of my brass in addition to picking up some spare .40 brass (that I load to 10mm length and pressure) when I'm at the range.

The load I'm using is:


174 gr cast lead bullet (Lee mold) -- $1.00 / 7000 * 174 = $0.024857 each
6.2 gr Alliant Promo (Red Dot equiv) powder -- $87.85 per 8 lbs -- $87.85 / 8 / 7000 * 6.2 = $0.00972625 each
Tula LPM Primers -- $20 / 1000 = $0.021 each


So, $0.0555835 per round or $55.58 per 1000. At the very worst, I've had to pay $1.25 per pound for lead and that would bring it up to $0.0617978 per bullet or $61.80 per 1000.

Primer and powder has gone up a little since I last stocked up, so it might cost slightly more if I was buying new components right now. I always try to max out the HAZMAT charge so that shipping and HAZMAT does not add much to the per round cost.

Looking on PowderValley's website right now, I see Alliant Promo for $92.50 per 8-lb keg and Tula SPM primers at $23.50 per 1000. Updating those values in my spreadsheet come out to $64.82 per 1000 rounds.


+1 the people that don't cast don't know what they are missing, my lee mold casts at 183 and I have a NOE mold
that casts at 198gr, its a wfn.

Arnold Kuhl
02-08-2014, 08:16
Have any of you cats shot full-power Underwood ammo, like 180gr. or 200gr. FMJ, out of a G20 Gen4, with stock barrel? Like to find out what you think. Is an AM barrel, like a KKM (I have a KKM on my G21SF), a better bet when shooting the Underwood stuff?

Finally got a new Gen4 G20, and 3 boxes of UW ammo, but haven't shot anything yet. (It's been too bloody cold to go to the range for the last couple of months).

Thanks,
AK

tenforme
02-08-2014, 11:30
Have any of you cats shot full-power Underwood ammo, like 180gr. or 200gr. FMJ, out of a G20 Gen4, with stock barrel? Like to find out what you think. Is an AM barrel, like a KKM (I have a KKM on my G21SF), a better bet when shooting the Underwood stuff.

Finally got a new Gen4 G20, and 3 boxes of UW ammo, but haven't shot anything yet. (It's been too bloody cold to go to the range for the last couple of months).

Thanks,
AK

I have shot '000s of rounds of UW out of my Gen 3 G20SF's stock barrel with zero issues.

WeeWilly
02-08-2014, 11:40
I have shot '000s of rounds of UW out of my Gen 3 G20SF's stock barrel with zero issues.


Same here, well hundreds of UW and many thousands of loads as hot or hotter. Over time I have accumulated quite a few KKM barrels, but I find less and less utility. These days they rarely make it into the range bag, and have started selling them off.


For reloading, the AM barrels generally provide enough additional support that it does seem to help a little in brass life, but again, I just pass my hot ones through the G-Rx die and disgard when they start showing cracks.

dryfly
02-08-2014, 11:49
Same here, well hundreds of UW and many thousands of loads as hot or hotter. Over time I have accumulated quite a few KKM barrels, but I find less and less utility. These days they rarely make it into the range bag, and have started selling them off.


For reloading, the AM barrels generally provide enough additional support that it does seem to help a little in brass life, but again, I just pass my hot ones through the G-Rx die and disgard when they start showing cracks.


Stock RSA or aftermarket ?

WeeWilly
02-08-2014, 11:57
Stock RSA or aftermarket ?

For G20SF, I use a 22lb spring. For any of the Gen 4 style RSA's, stock.

FWIW, the 22lb spring will cycle even my plinking 40 loads just fine. The only downside is the higher felt recoil over a stock spring on hotter loads. I guess I would rather feel the recoil than have my receiver feel it. That is what makes the later style RSA so nice, lower felt recoil, no frame battering on hot loads.

Arnold Kuhl
02-09-2014, 07:59
You cats with the G20's: thanks for all the info. The 10mm experience will be a BRAND NEW one for me. I've never shot a 10mm before (just about everything else, except full-auto, which is my major wish of all time, except it's never gonna happen).

I'm pretty sure the stock barrel on my Gen4 G20 can handle Underwood loads. If there was any risk, I'm sure the warning would be out there. I don't plan on shooting my G20 all that much, but safety first, as I always say. I have purchased two frozen $2 cantaloupes for the express purpose of blowing the living crap out of them with an UW 180gr. or 200gr. FMJ (I don't have any UW HP's right now). Should be interesting, if it ever warms up enough to go to the range.

That said, I still want a KKM barrel for the G20, as my KKM bbl. for my G21SF is a great shooting barrel. It does jam on occasion with hard cast SWC's (reloads), but with factory stuff, including UW .45 Super (a truly bad-ass round), it is stellar.

Regards,
AK

WilliamDahl
02-09-2014, 17:51
You cats with the G20's: thanks for all the info. The 10mm experience will be a BRAND NEW one for me. I've never shot a 10mm before (just about everything else, except full-auto, which is my major wish of all time, except it's never gonna happen).

Don't know about your neck of the woods, but there are plenty of gun ranges in Vegas that rent full-auto weapons for you to shoot. And, if it is one of those things that are on your bucket list, it's not that expensive.

http://www.discountfirearmsusa.com/product-list/a-la-carte-pg210

$50-90, depending upon the firearm.

There are a lot more shops in Vegas that do that, but this is one that I visited while I was there at one time.

And there is even a place in TN for you to rent full-auto firearms:

http://www.myshootersedge.com/pricing.php

Arnold Kuhl
02-09-2014, 18:35
Don't know about your neck of the woods, but there are plenty of gun ranges in Vegas that rent full-auto weapons for you to shoot. And, if it is one of those things that are on your bucket list, it's not that expensive.

http://www.discountfirearmsusa.com/product-list/a-la-carte-pg210

$50-90, depending upon the firearm.

There are a lot more shops in Vegas that do that, but this is one that I visited while I was there at one time.

And there is even a place in TN for you to rent full-auto firearms:

http://www.myshootersedge.com/pricing.php
Thanks for the links. I live about 30 minutes from Shooters' Edge. I have been aware of their full-auto rentals for a while, but have never availed myself of the opportunity. I just seem to spend so damn much money on other gun stuff, there's just never any left over for something like shooting full-auto. I was under the impression that it can get pretty expensive. Maybe if I just shot one mag full-auto, and then stopped, I could afford it. But I'm sure it is just like eating Fritos -- nobody can eat just one.

Plus, now I have one more mouth to feed: a Gen4 G20 10mm. It just goes on and on........

AK

Arnold Kuhl
02-10-2014, 08:36
BTW, any of you cats with G20's or G29's use the 10mm ammo made in Serbia, called PPU? I bought a box at a show yesterday, for $25.50 (50 rounds). The only other 10mm ammo I could find at the show was Remington UMC ($40 for a box of 50 -- NOT!).

The PPU's are also hollowpoints. Just wondering if the stuff is decent? Feedback appreciated.

AK

4949shooter
02-10-2014, 14:05
Andrew Wiggin did a gel test on the PPU, which didn't expand at all at the velocities the Serbs loaded it at. I believe they (Andrew and Intercooler) later went on the up the powder charge to close to 1300 fps and got some expansion. The tests are on 10mmfirearms.com.

The PPU is good plinking/target ammo.

Arnold Kuhl
02-10-2014, 15:31
Andrew Wiggin did a gel test on the PPU, which didn't expand at all at the velocities the Serbs loaded it at. I believe they (Andrew and Intercooler) later went on the up the powder charge to close to 1300 fps and got some expansion. The tests are on 10mmfirearms.com.

The PPU is good plinking/target ammo.
Thanks a bunch for the info. Still learning about the 10mm. It's really started to grab me just like the .357SIG did 20 years ago, and I've not even shot the damn thing yet! (It's still too bloody cold to go to the range, at least for this old buzzard. Next week looks a lot more favorable weather-wise).

Actually, I was just wondering if PPU was reliable and halfway accurate; not really worried about expansion/penetration with this particular brand of ammo.

Regards,
AK

4949shooter
02-10-2014, 18:20
Thanks a bunch for the info. Still learning about the 10mm. It's really started to grab me just like the .357SIG did 20 years ago, and I've not even shot the damn thing yet! (It's still too bloody cold to go to the range, at least for this old buzzard. Next week looks a lot more favorable weather-wise).

Actually, I was just wondering if PPU was reliable and halfway accurate; not really worried about expansion/penetration with this particular brand of ammo.

Regards,
AK

There were no issues with my 20SF. I was even using an aftermarket 20 pound RSA that day and it still cycled the gun no problem.

sgtbones
02-10-2014, 21:45
I have shot '000s of rounds of UW out of my Gen 3 G20SF's stock barrel with zero issues.

Shot Swamp Fox Ammo and Underwood out of a stock barrel no problems.

leeward419
02-12-2014, 05:18
Don't fall into the metrosexual .40 S&W trap. Figuring out which girls jeans to wear and all the make up problems will cut into your shooting activities. :whistling:

plus two on the hilarious, seriously though, if you start with the 10mm you can drop in a 40 barrel but you wont have near the smiles like when you shoot the 10. truly is a pretty neat round. I was amazed at how far out this thing will shoot flat. Its like a 357 SIG but with a heavier bullet. My sig shoots flat, but the 10mm will do that with a 180 bullet.

leeward419
02-12-2014, 05:24
One last point: if you are sticking with the stock barrel, a heavier recoil spring setup will keep your slide closed for a bit longer when shooting REALLY hot loads. Again, not NECESSARY but when shooting really hot stuff, it could benefit you. 20-22lb spring weight is the best for even the most nuclear of 10mm in my experience. 20lb for a 1911 and 21-22lb for a Glock 20.


I found the above to be true also when I went with a wolf 22lb recoil spring and metal guide rod in my G20.

any of you guys still trying to sell a KKM barrel for a G20?

Arnold, Have fun with your new 10mm I hope you have as much fun with it as I do.
I had to pay attention to my shooting technique with the 10, I had gotten sloppy with my form with the lighter recoiling rounds, once I focused on my grip, I was amazed at how freaking acurate a G20 could be.
Have fun!

Arnold Kuhl
02-12-2014, 08:16
I found the above to be true also when I went with a wolf 22lb recoil spring and metal guide rod in my G20.

any of you guys still trying to sell a KKM barrel for a G20?

Arnold, Have fun with your new 10mm I hope you have as much fun with it as I do.
I had to pay attention to my shooting technique with the 10, I had gotten sloppy with my form with the lighter recoiling rounds, once I focused on my grip, I was amazed at how freaking acurate a G20 could be.
Have fun!
I've got a new Gen4 G20. No need to change the RSA. Looking forward to next week, when the weather is supposed to improve vastly. Right now, it looks like we're gonna get snowed in until the weekend.

I've decided that eventually I'm gonna get a stock-length KKM bbl. for my G20, like I did for my G21SF. The G21SF has a Wolff 22-lb. recoil spring and a SS guide rod, and cycles everything just fine with the KKM bbl., except for very weak, wimpy loads. I can also shoot .45 Super in this rig, which is a real hoot when shooting melons and other types of fruit and veggies. I don't have many of them left (wimpy loads), and the ones I do have, I'll just shoot with my S&W 625.

Regards,
AK

ca survivor
02-13-2014, 07:18
Just get a Glock 22/23. Don't fall into the 10mm ammo trap.
:agree:

nickE10mm
02-13-2014, 10:35
:agree:

Here's what I don't get about the whole "10mm ammo price" situation.

The 10mm is (or, CAN be when loaded to its potential) a MAGNUM-level auto cartridge. Compare the price of 10mm ammunition to other magnum cartridges like the .357 mag, .41 and .44 mag, etc etc. There isn't much of a difference, at least if the 10mm is loaded correctly to upper SAAMI specs. And while its unfortunate that lots of factory stuff you typically see in stores isn't anything more than a glorified .40SW and that the rates for this ammo from the factory is a bit more expensive, I would STILL say that *IF* the ammo was loaded to true 10mm (magnum) specs, that the price they were asking would suddenly be more reasonable due to the power increase. I guess what I'm saying is.... MAGNUM LEVEL CARTRIDGES COST MORE from the factory... ALL of them... not just 10mm. I agree, UMC 10mm target stuff should be a little cheaper... (but if it was 180gr FMJ @ 1250fps instead of 1000fps, $28-30 per 50rds would be a fair price....). Since its NOT that powerful, it does cost a couple bucks more for it. But ... only a COUPLE BUCKS. Also, when you look at Underwood ammo, his prices are incredibly low... he prices his PREMIUM stuff lower than Rem UMC in stores. If everyone followed his lead, price wouldn't be an issue. Us reloaders don't worry too much about price but I can understand people who buy their ammo at stores complaining.... but they should complain about ALL ammo prices because honestly they are ALL ridiculous to ME. I'm spoiled :)

Then there is the reloading argument.

I HAVE SO MUCH BRASS that i can't afford NOT to keep shooting 10mm!! Components don't cost any more than any other cartridge does to reload! Powder and primers are the same. Bullets are the same ones used for .40SW and the brass is the same cost as any other cartridge. If you cast your own, its even cheaper.

The ONE problem I see with 10mm is ***LOCAL AVAILABILITY***. There is TONS of 10mm ammo online but sometimes not as much locally (except in large chain stores in larger cities) but this could be changing. I have NEVER had a problem finding 10mm ammo in large amounts at my local Cabelas or Bass Pro, but some people might not have large sporting goods places where they live.

WilliamDahl
02-13-2014, 12:30
For a given velocity, a commercial 10mm round is going to cost more to manufacture than a .40SW round. There is slightly more brass, so that's going to add a slight amount. Since the cartridge is longer and there is more room for the gases to expand, you will need slightly more powder to get the same pressure and velocity. But this a a very slight difference and probably not the reason that 10mm ammo disproportionately higher priced than .40SW ammo. Some people have said that for the same velocity, the 10mm seems "less snappy" than the .40SW. I've never really paid that much attention to it or compared the rounds side by side, so I'm not sure. Plugging a couple of recipes for .40 and 10mm into my spreadsheet, I come up with it being about $0.17 per 50-round box more expensive to load for 10mm than for .40SW just because of the extra powder. I'm not loading to the same velocity though -- 10mm is higher. I'm basing this on 6.2gr Alliant Promo for the 10mm and 4.5gr Alliant Promo for the .40SW round.

Personally, I do not see a reason why anyone would purchase a .40SW Glock since the 10mm one can fire .40SW even without a barrel change. As such, the 10mm Glock is the best of both worlds. If you are having to buy commercial ammo, then you can buy the cheaper .40SW rounds and you will still have a gun that can handle even higher powered rounds.

My costs to reload for 10mm is around $3.24 per 50 and around $3.07 to reload for .40SW (assuming that I recover all of my brass).

nickE10mm
02-13-2014, 12:40
Yep.

Also, The reason for 10mm will feel slightly less than equally loaded 40 caliber is because your typical 10mm pistol has a heavier slide and as a no overall bigger gun plus the pressure slightly reduced because more space in the 10mm case.

Arnold Kuhl
02-13-2014, 17:02
For a given velocity, a commercial 10mm round is going to cost more to manufacture than a .40SW round. There is slightly more brass, so that's going to add a slight amount. Since the cartridge is longer and there is more room for the gases to expand, you will need slightly more powder to get the same pressure and velocity. But this a a very slight difference and probably not the reason that 10mm ammo disproportionately higher priced than .40SW ammo. Some people have said that for the same velocity, the 10mm seems "less snappy" than the .40SW. I've never really paid that much attention to it or compared the rounds side by side, so I'm not sure. Plugging a couple of recipes for .40 and 10mm into my spreadsheet, I come up with it being about $0.17 per 50-round box more expensive to load for 10mm than for .40SW just because of the extra powder. I'm not loading to the same velocity though -- 10mm is higher. I'm basing this on 6.2gr Alliant Promo for the 10mm and 4.5gr Alliant Promo for the .40SW round.

Personally, I do not see a reason why anyone would purchase a .40SW Glock since the 10mm one can fire .40SW even without a barrel change. As such, the 10mm Glock is the best of both worlds. If you are having to buy commercial ammo, then you can buy the cheaper .40SW rounds and you will still have a gun that can handle even higher powered rounds.

My costs to reload for 10mm is around $3.24 per 50 and around $3.07 to reload for .40SW (assuming that I recover all of my brass).
I acquired a Gen4 G22, not because I'm a big fan of the .40, but because I really like the .357SIG round. So with that gun, with both barrels, I can shoot both calibers with the same pistol. I just like a gun with versatility.

But I do see your point about just getting a 10mm (G20), and modifying it to shoot other rounds as well. I have heard about people getting a G20, then getting bbls. for .357SIG, and 9x25mm Dillon, as well as .40S&W. The 9x25 Dillon appears to be a really bad-ass round, but somewhat of a wildcat. You'd probably have to be a reloader to be able to shoot the Dillon round. I've not had any experience with the Dillon, but it does sound interesting.

Regards,
AK

WilliamDahl
02-13-2014, 21:59
I acquired a Gen4 G22, not because I'm a big fan of the .40, but because I really like the .357SIG round. So with that gun, with both barrels, I can't shoot both calibers with the same pistol. I just like a gun with versatility.

But I do see your point about just getting a 10mm (G20), and modifying it to shoot other rounds as well. I have heard about people getting a G20, then getting bbls. for .357SIG, and 9x25mm Dillon, as well as .40S&W. The 9x25 Dillon appears to be a really bad-ass round, but somewhat of a wildcat. You'd probably have to be a reloader to be able to shoot the Dillon round. I've not had any experience with the Dillon, but it does sound interesting.

Regards,
AK

The G20 also has the same frame as the G21. Supposedly, it is possible to modify either to shoot the other's caliber also. Which means that with a G21, you can not only shoot .45ACP, but modify it to shoot 10mm/.40SW, .357SIG, 9mm, .38 Super, .40 Super, .40 Corbon, and 9x25 Dillion.

Oh, and let's not forget .45 Super with just a heavier recoil spring or .460 Rowland with a heavier recoil spring, a threaded barrel, and a compensator.

Taterhead
02-13-2014, 23:39
Here's what I don't get about the whole "10mm ammo price" situation.

The 10mm is (or, CAN be when loaded to its potential) a MAGNUM-level auto cartridge. Compare the price of 10mm ammunition to other magnum cartridges like the .357 mag, .41 and .44 mag, etc etc. There isn't much of a difference, at least if the 10mm is loaded correctly to upper SAAMI specs. And while its unfortunate that lots of factory stuff you typically see in stores isn't anything more than a glorified .40SW and that the rates for this ammo from the factory is a bit more expensive, I would STILL say that *IF* the ammo was loaded to true 10mm (magnum) specs, that the price they were asking would suddenly be more reasonable due to the power increase. I guess what I'm saying is.... MAGNUM LEVEL CARTRIDGES COST MORE from the factory... ALL of them... not just 10mm. I agree, UMC 10mm target stuff should be a little cheaper... (but if it was 180gr FMJ @ 1250fps instead of 1000fps, $28-30 per 50rds would be a fair price....). Since its NOT that powerful, it does cost a couple bucks more for it. But ... only a COUPLE BUCKS. Also, when you look at Underwood ammo, his prices are incredibly low... he prices his PREMIUM stuff lower than Rem UMC in stores. If everyone followed his lead, price wouldn't be an issue. Us reloaders don't worry too much about price but I can understand people who buy their ammo at stores complaining.... but they should complain about ALL ammo prices because honestly they are ALL ridiculous to ME. I'm spoiled :)

Then there is the reloading argument.

I HAVE SO MUCH BRASS that i can't afford NOT to keep shooting 10mm!! Components don't cost any more than any other cartridge does to reload! Powder and primers are the same. Bullets are the same ones used for .40SW and the brass is the same cost as any other cartridge. If you cast your own, its even cheaper.

The ONE problem I see with 10mm is ***LOCAL AVAILABILITY***. There is TONS of 10mm ammo online but sometimes not as much locally (except in large chain stores in larger cities) but this could be changing. I have NEVER had a problem finding 10mm ammo in large amounts at my local Cabelas or Bass Pro, but some people might not have large sporting goods places where they live.


Great post Nick. There are few cartridges that exploit cost savings and the versatility of a cartridge like the 10mm auto. You can load premium ammo with new brass for about $20/box. Range ammo is way less expensive.

By the way, I created a neat little Excel tool that calculates the break-even point for reloading. You just put in the cost variables, and the tool will calculate how many loads it takes to break even on the purchase of reloading equipment.

If anyone wants to send me a PM, I'd be happy to email the file. I'd upload it to GT, but they don't allow that type of attachment.

Arnold Kuhl
02-14-2014, 09:08
"Oh, and let's not forget .45 Super with just a heavier recoil spring or .460 Rowland with a heavier recoil spring, a threaded barrel, and a compensator."

I got a KKM bbl. and a Wolff 22 lb. recoil spring and SS guide rod for my G21SF. It can handle the .45 Super (Underwood) no sweat. Now the .460 Rowland, that baby is another story.......

AK

WilliamDahl
02-14-2014, 10:55
"Oh, and let's not forget .45 Super with just a heavier recoil spring or .460 Rowland with a heavier recoil spring, a threaded barrel, and a compensator."

I got a KKM bbl. and a Wolff 22 lb. recoil spring and SS guide rod for my G21SF. It can handle the .45 Super (Underwood) no sweat. Now the .460 Rowland, that baby is another story.......


Since the .45 Super and the .460 Rowland use the same thickness of brass according to Starline, you could load .45 Super brass to .460 Rowland pressures. You still need to a compensator and upgraded recoil spring, but you don't *have* to have the .460 barrel. The only reason the .460 brass was longer was to keep it from accidentally getting loaded in .45ACP or .45 Super guns. If you are diligent in ensuring that only the proper ammo goes into each of your guns, then you don't *have* to have the .460 Rowland chamber.

WilliamDahl
02-14-2014, 11:00
By the way, I created a neat little Excel tool that calculates the break-even point for reloading. You just put in the cost variables, and the tool will calculate how many loads it takes to break even on the purchase of reloading equipment.

One might argue that we really don't want to know the break even point for reloading since it might interfere with our preconceived notion that we are "saving money". :)

I just figure that all the presses and other equipment are just capital expenditures and they will be able to be resold for close to what I paid for them after I die.

nickE10mm
02-14-2014, 13:44
Since the .45 Super and the .460 Rowland use the same thickness of brass according to Starline, you could load .45 Super brass to .460 Rowland pressures. You still need to a compensator and upgraded recoil spring, but you don't *have* to have the .460 barrel. The only reason the .460 brass was longer was to keep it from accidentally getting loaded in .45ACP or .45 Super guns. If you are diligent in ensuring that only the proper ammo goes into each of your guns, then you don't *have* to have the .460 Rowland chamber.

Wellllll .... not quite so fast. This is tricky. All else being equal, there will be slightly more case space in a .460 Rowland load than a .45 Super load, which means, having equal propellant and projectile, the.460 Rowland load would be lower pressure. The problem is, if you were able to say "LOAD A (.45 Super) EXACTLY EQUALS THE PRESSURE OF LOAD B (.460 Rowland)", I'd say you would be okay in assuming the cases would both handle the pressure equally. But KNOWING the pressure of either load is something entirely different.

I know what you are saying, though.... but I'd be careful is making the generalization. :wavey:

WilliamDahl
02-14-2014, 13:52
Wellllll .... not quite so fast. This is tricky. All else being equal, there will be slightly more case space in a .460 Rowland load than a .45 Super load, which means, having equal propellant and projectile, the.460 Rowland load would be lower pressure. The problem is, if you were able to say "LOAD A (.45 Super) EXACTLY EQUALS THE PRESSURE OF LOAD B (.460 Rowland)", I'd say you would be okay in assuming the cases would both handle the pressure equally. But KNOWING the pressure of either load is something entirely different.

I know what you are saying, though.... but I'd be careful is making the generalization. :wavey:

According to the .460 Rowland specification, it is exactly the same overall length as a .45ACP (or .45 Super) round, just seated deeper. They state that the only reason for the increased length of the brass is so that it won't chamber in a .45ACP gun.

Now, *theoretically*, you could load the .460 Rowland round a bit longer and you would have more powder space, but then it would not fit in existing mags.

nickE10mm
02-14-2014, 14:18
According to the .460 Rowland specification, it is exactly the same overall length as a .45ACP (or .45 Super) round, just seated deeper. They state that the only reason for the increased length of the brass is so that it won't chamber in a .45ACP gun.

Now, *theoretically*, you could load the .460 Rowland round a bit longer and you would have more powder space, but then it would not fit in existing mags.

Interesting... I was not aware. Cool stuff.

Back in the day, I had Gary @ Ace Custom (the inventor of the .45 Super, or his son...IIRC) convert my Kimber Custom II from .45ACP to .45 Super.... That was before I reloaded. I ended up selling that pistol but not because there was anything wrong with it. It was super powerful and extremely accurate.... but ammo price was the issue. I handload now so I might keep it nowadays.... anyways, I found the 10mm and have no reason to get a .45 Super or Rowland but DANG... it was a powerful setup.

For the record, I still prefer 10mm :cool::cool::cool:

Arnold Kuhl
02-14-2014, 16:25
I had been thinking that the COAL of the Rowland was longer than the .45ACP and .45Super. So it's just the case that's longer, not the overall length. Hmmmm......

Well, I suspect that I'll not have occasion to try the .460Rowland in this particular lifetime, but possibly in the next one. Now that I have a G20, I'll be like a little kid with a new trike, at least for a while, with the 10mm. I've always been a big fan of the .45ACP, and in more recent years, of the .357SIG as well. Now along comes the 10mm.............

AK

MyTime
02-14-2014, 16:43
True. The 460 case is 1/16th an inch longer than the 45 ACP case. The COAL is exactly the same.

MyTime

Taterhead
02-14-2014, 18:07
One might argue that we really don't want to know the break even point for reloading since it might interfere with our preconceived notion that we are "saving money". :)

I just figure that all the presses and other equipment are just capital expenditures and they will be able to be resold for close to what I paid for them after I die.


Absolutely correct. We don't save any money, but we can shoot more. Plus reloading is a cool hobby!

WilliamDahl
02-14-2014, 22:22
Absolutely correct. We don't save any money, but we can shoot more. Plus reloading is a cool hobby!

No argument here. :)

Plus, it's nice to be able to say that it only costs your $3 or so for a 50-round box of ammo when everyone else is complaining about ammo costing $15-20 per box (or not even being able to find ammo).

WeeWilly
02-14-2014, 22:36
No argument here. :)

Plus, it's nice to be able to say that it only costs your $3 or so for a 50-round box of ammo when everyone else is complaining about ammo costing $15-20 per box (or not even being able to find ammo).


Yeah, completely different than all the complaining about powder availability... just sayin' ;)

Taterhead
02-14-2014, 23:27
Yeah, completely different than all the complaining about powder availability... just sayin' ;)

No doubt. Last time it was primers. Primers and bullets are getting ok.

My powder supplies have mostly been ok. At least for pistol. I have a rifle load that takes RL 17. I finally found that after looking for more than a year, and I managed to land another jug of 844 surplus powder this week too. Otherwise, there has been very little purchasing of powder in the last year or more.

Too much longer though, and I am going to start getting more serious about stepping up the search. I am not uncomfortable quite yet, but not too far away. I think a lot of guys are in that same situation as we've dwindled down stocks.

WilliamDahl
02-15-2014, 01:42
Yeah, completely different than all the complaining about powder availability... just sayin' ;)

I max out the HAZMAT charge when buying powders or primers, so I'm pretty set on both. Around 100 lbs or so of powder and probably 30-40K of primers. I have enough calibers that I reload for that if I can find a powder that is available, I can probably find a gun in my gun safe that will allow me to use that powder. I even have a few kegs of pulldown 20mm and .50BMG powders for experimenting with duplex loads.

Arnold Kuhl
02-18-2014, 07:43
About to head to the range. Finally warmed up enough to go shooting. It's gonna be mud-city up there on the mountain, but I can't stand the wait any longer.

The new Gen4 G20 is finally going for its initiation. Going to shoot a little PPU, 180gr. JHP's. I know this is fairly cheap stuff, but it's supposed to work in the G20's pretty well. But I'm also going to try out a little Underwood fodder: 180gr FMJ's. Saving the 200gr. FMJ's for next time.

Gotta get going. Later on.

AK

nickE10mm
02-18-2014, 10:49
About to head to the range. Finally warmed up enough to go shooting. It's gonna be mud-city up there on the mountain, but I can't stand the wait any longer.

The new Gen4 G20 is finally going for its initiation. Going to shoot a little PPU, 180gr. JHP's. I know this is fairly cheap stuff, but it's supposed to work in the G20's pretty well. But I'm also going to try out a little Underwood fodder: 180gr FMJ's. Saving the 200gr. FMJ's for next time.

Gotta get going. Later on.

AK

Have fun, man!! Looking forward to a nice G20SF range day, myself!!! (We will need pics and a report, btw). :cool:

Johnny Ringo
02-18-2014, 11:25
I've read that G20s can be converted to .40S&W with a barrel swap and that the 10mm mags work with the .40 ammo.

While I am NOT planning on doing that, I am curious to know if my G22 .40S&W mags will work in a G20. I don't see how they could work, but based on the inverse information stated above, I'm curious to know if I've overlooked something. I am picking up a Gen3 G20 today and, unfortunately, it only comes with two ten round mags.

WeeWilly
02-18-2014, 11:45
I've read that G20s can be converted to .40S&W with a barrel swap and that the 10mm mags work with the .40 ammo.

While I am NOT planning on doing that, I am curious to know if my G22 .40S&W mags will work in a G20. I don't see how they could work, but based on the inverse information stated above, I'm curious to know if I've overlooked something. I am picking up a Gen3 G20 today and, unfortunately, it only comes with two ten round mags.


No, your G22 mags won't work.


I run 40S&W out of my G20/G29 all the time, 10mm mags work fine for the 40S&W.

vaquero aleman
02-18-2014, 11:49
I tried the fit of some G22 mags in my G29 and it was not a very good fit. It might fire a couple of rounds but I believe that there would be malfunctions. There is just too much space left in the frame for it to be reliable without modification of the mags.




If the mags move or twist any in the frame they disconnect and fall out.

Johnny Ringo
02-18-2014, 11:50
No, your G22 mags won't work.


I run 40S&W out of my G20/G29 all the time, 10mm mags work fine for the 40S&W.

I tried the fit of some G22 mags in my G29 and it was not a very good fit. It might fire a couple of rounds but I believe that there would be malfunctions. There is just too much space left in the frame for it to be reliable without modification of the mags.


If the mags move or twist any in the frame they disconnect and fall out.

That's what I figured.

Thanks, y'all!

WilliamDahl
02-18-2014, 14:32
Yep.

Also, The reason for 10mm will feel slightly less than equally loaded 40 caliber is because your typical 10mm pistol has a heavier slide and as a no overall bigger gun plus the pressure slightly reduced because more space in the 10mm case.

With respect to the weight of the handguns, I figured I would list them here in case anyone is interested.

According to the Glock site, the full size 10mm (G20) is 30.89 oz unloaded or 39.71 oz loaded (30.71 and 31.54 respectively for Gen4s).
The full size .40SW (G22) is 25.59 oz unloaded or 34.42 oz loaded (the Gen4s are the same weight).

Looking on the Alliant reloading site, I find these recipees:
155 gr Speer GDHP, Alliant Unique
.40SW -- 8 gr, 1.12" OAL, 1207 fps, 4" barrel
10mm -- 8.5 gr, 1.25" OAL, 1246 fps, 5" barrel

Unfortunately, Alliant did not use the same length barrel on the two tests, so we don't know if the increase of 39 fps is due to the extra 0.5 gr of powder or the extra 1" of barrel.

Now, if you look at the Ballistics By The Inch (BBI) Website for the 10mm (http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/10mm.html), you will see that for the Cor Bon 155 gr DPX loads, they increased from 1183 to 1244 fps when they went from 4" to 5" in barrel length. Unfortunately, they don't have that same bullet used in a test for .40SW and the closest they have is the Cor Box 150 gr JHP. For it, the velocity increases from 1240 to 1303 when going from 4" to 5" in barrel length.

I did find a bullet that was used in both .40SW and 10mm though -- the Federal Hydra-Shok 180 gr JHP. It goes from 1022 to 1051 when moving from a 4" to a 5" barrel in .40SW and from 1013 to 1069 in the 10mm. So, is Federal using a slightly slower burning powder in the 10mm than they are in the 40SW or is it just the added case volume that is changing the burn rate? Unfortunately, with commercial ammo, we don't know the powders used nor did BBI disassemble the rounds and weigh the powder charges.

What this seems to imply to me is that for at least these commercial loadings, the biggest performance difference that you might see related to .40SW and 10mm is due to an increased barrel length. These 10mm loadings were not taking advantage of the full potential of the 10mm cartridge. I even noticed that for some commercial loads (e.g. Cor Bon 135 gr JHP), the .40SW had a slight velocity advantage over the 10mm until you started to get into the realm of carbine length barrels.

Oh well... Just some food for thought, I guess...

Arnold Kuhl
02-18-2014, 15:31
The christening of the Gen4 G20 went off without a hitch. I had my little target at about 12 yards, which is my standard distance for shooting a new gun. The temp was around 55 or so, with the sun out. I thought I had been transported to another planet.

I shot 20 rounds of PPU first. They worked fine, and were actually quite accurate; more so than I thought they'd be. Then, the Underwood. Holy Moly, what a difference! I made the stupid mistake of not having both hands on the gun when I shot the first UW 180 FMJ, and my wrist really felt it. So then, in a flash of sheer brilliance, I used both hands, and voila!, much more better. I ended up shooting 15 UW's at the ShootnSee paper target, and expended another 15 at the two frozen cantaloupes I had brought, plus 4 milk jugs full of water. The cantaloupes were frozen solid; I mean, they were rock-hard, but the Underwood FMJs did break off some chunks, although there was no vaporization, as there would have been if the fruit had been allowed to thaw out first (my fault, of course; I forgot to take them out of the freezer).

I took a photo of my little target, which at some point I'll attempt to upload. The last time I tried to do this, I got some kind of funky error message saying there wasn't enough memory, or space, or some such nonsense. I'll wait till the wife gets home.

The Underwood was very stout, but quite accurate. I did find myself getting used to it after I had shot a few rounds. I'd say it's on par with UW .45Super, which I can shoot out of my upgraded G21SF. I can't see myself shooting a lot of 10mm Underwood, as it's not like sitting down and going through 2 or 3 hundred 9mm's. The 10mm Underwoods definitely smoke. I still have quite a few rounds left, and will use them sparingly.

The Gen4 G20 was every bit as accurate as I had hoped, just as my G21SF is. Very happy with the gun, but I am going to have CCR refinish the slide at some point. The factory finish is not terrible, as some Glocks I've seen lately, but I really like the Cera-Hide House Black finish CCR uses, and am going to have it done to the G20.

Regards,
AK

4949shooter
02-18-2014, 15:35
Sounds like everything went well.

Congrats!

Arnold Kuhl
02-18-2014, 20:27
I forgot to mention that, after examining all spent brass, both the PPU and UW, I found absolutely NO evidence of case bulging or any other anomalies. (My Gen4 G20 is stock, including barrel). The brass was just fine, although I doubt I'll reload the PPU cases. The Underwood cases, yes, but probably not quite as hot as they came from the factory. I'll have to start working up some loads, but my next problem (challenge) will probably be trying to buy just one or two hundred Starline 10mm brass, instead of 500 or 1000, which is way too many for my purposes. I'll also need to find some good bullets, but 10mm FMJs for reloading shouldn't be that hard to find.
AK

Arnold Kuhl
02-19-2014, 08:10
I still intend to post a pic, but the wife had to put the finishing touches on her "sock monkey" last night. Ergo, no pic (I forgot how to do it).

Suffice to say that I put 12 rounds in or touching the 10 ring, with 3 fliers (still on the paper, no sweat). Target was about 12 yards away. The gun is accurate, just like most of the other Glocks I have (mostly Gen4's). The only Glock I have that's not accurate is my 26-year-old Gen2 G19. I never could hit with it, even when new in 1988. Thinking about selling it, and saving up for ONE LAST GLOCK, a Gen4 G19. Or maybe something else. Not going to get a G29, as the recoil would be too stout for the small grip.

The 10mm is a hoot, just like the .45 Super. 65 years old, and this is the very first time I've shot a 10mm. Very impressed with both the caliber and the G20. But I have a distinct feeling I'll not be shooting a lot of 10mm, so I probably will just buy a couple more boxes of Underwood, and not worry about reloading. I could change my mind, but it's doubtful. The price of all ammo is going to go up, and up, so I'll probably order some more UW soon. I'm also going to have my Gen4 G20 and my Gen4 G26 refinished, before their prices go up, too. CCR does a great job refinishing.

AK

Taterhead
02-19-2014, 20:47
Nice report Arnold. Sounds like things are running like we like them to!

Congrats.

leeward419
02-22-2014, 07:30
The christening of the Gen4 G20 went off without a hitch. I had my little target at about 12 yards, which is my standard distance for shooting a new gun. The temp was around 55 or so, with the sun out. I thought I had been transported to another planet.

Congrats on the New pistol, youll find it is really accurate and a lot of fun!

PS noticed you live in Tenesee, I live in NYS and my wife and I are on the "leaving in three years plan" as so many here are; when my youngest goes to college. WE have been considering Tenessee to move to; what are the gun laws and local attitudes towards gun owners like there? They paint you as a criminal and up here for simply owning a firearm. Remington a long time NY company just announced their new plant will be in Alabama as a result of our ruthless lying cheating, law breaking and Constitution hating Communist governor. Its amazing how many people here are openly denouncing the constitution. Well the state workers and teachers anyway. alas......

Arnold Kuhl
02-22-2014, 08:46
Congrats on the New pistol, youll find it is really accurate and a lot of fun!

PS noticed you live in Tenesee, I live in NYS and my wife and I are on the "leaving in three years plan" as so many here are; when my youngest goes to college. WE have been considering Tenessee to move to; what are the gun laws and local attitudes towards gun owners like there? They paint you as a criminal and up here for simply owning a firearm. Remington a long time NY company just announced their new plant will be in Alabama as a result of our ruthless lying cheating, law breaking and Constitution hating Communist governor. Its amazing how many people here are openly denouncing the constitution. Well the state workers and teachers anyway. alas......
Come on down. NE TN is very gun-friendly. I would imagine that the big cities, i.e., Nashville and Memphis, are anti-gun, as almost all big cities are. Knoxville, not sure, but probably fairly tolerant of guns and gun-owners.

A lot of northern folks move to TN and NC, as well as other southern states. A lot of retirees. We have no state income tax, so our state sales tax is 9.5%. But local taxes are pretty low, particularly property taxes if you're a home-owner. I remember my mom paid about 4-5 times more than we did on her property taxes for a small lot (outside of St. Louis). Our lot is about an acre, and taxes run less than $700/yr.

People in NE TN are, in general, very patriotic and pro-Constitution. There is a lot of liberal BS at the local state university (ETSU), but off-campus, people are pretty conservative, as a rule. You can expect a heap of liberal bullcrap at most colleges and universities. My alma mater, e.g., up in Ohio is full of it, but it's still a damn good school.

Good luck,
AK

hotrodtrk
02-23-2014, 22:28
I Agree Arnold. I moved from Orlando to middle southern Tn. About an hour south of Nashville and the state is very gun friendly. As a matter-of-fact, if you don't own or carry one around my parts, you're kinda odd. Lol! As for home prices and land, exactly as you stated. In fact the home that I purchased, 5 acre, two story with deck off the master, wrap around porch, 1300 sq ft attached garage, 1800 sq ft home, was less than $120k. This same setup where I came from would have been 500k plus at min. And to boot, I go out and set up old milk/tea jugs, cans, boxes and whatever else I can find to target practice, right in my back yard. Of course safely first and only 3 neighbors makes it possible. Fire a BB gun where I was at in Orlando, and you'd have the swat team at your front door!

WilliamDahl
02-24-2014, 11:03
I Agree Arnold. I moved from Orlando to middle southern Tn. About an hour south of Nashville and the state is very gun friendly. As a matter-of-fact, if you don't own or carry one around my parts, you're kinda odd. Lol! As for home prices and land, exactly as you stated. In fact the home that I purchased, 5 acre, two story with deck off the master, wrap around porch, 1300 sq ft attached garage, 1800 sq ft home, was less than $120k. This same setup where I came from would have been 500k plus at min.

Using the standards for around here, the 1800 sq-ft for the house seems a bit small, but if you have a basement, then it would be a nice sized house. The 1300 sq-ft garage though -- I'm envious... That's like a 6-car garage. That would mean that I could put 2 cars in there AND have room for all my toys! :)