Super Frustrated [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : Super Frustrated


redcastle
01-02-2012, 22:09
Well, I'm new to reloading. I bought the Lee Turret press and am attempting to make 9mm rounds. I'm using Hodgdon Titegroup powder and this seems to be a huge mistake. The stuff is sticking to everything in site. I called the manufacture and he said that they were having some difficulty with static charge in some of the plastic containers that the powder comes in. Now, I don't know about you, but I get a little nervous when I here about static electricity and gun powder in the same sentence.

The manufacture's advice was to wipe all the reloading equipment down with a Bounce (anti-static/fabric softener) sheet and then empty the container and wipe it out with the Bounce sheet too. I saw the logic in wiping the press and dies down but drew the line at wiping out the container. I went and bought different powder (Accurate #5). After wiping the equipment down, the Accurate #5 powder is now sticking to everything, including the brass, which is supposed to be a neutral metal.

I'm so frustrated! I've really taken my time setting up the dies and trying to understand what I was doing and why I was doing it. Now I'm confronted with a problem that most people don't seem to have and I can't find a solution to it.

After filling the 9mm casing with powder, I went and measured the amount of powder that was dispensed to ensure an accurate minimum load. I couldn't even get an accurate measure because the powder that was dispensed was sticking to the the Lee Auto-Disk and the casing. At this point I knew there was a safety concern. Not all the powder was making in to the casing which meant that I was loading less than a minimum load and from what I've read, this can be dangerous. So, the whole process has come to a screeching halt. :steamed: After trying to clean all the equipment and using a different powder, the problem is persisting. It's seems that my equipment is fouled and I don't know what to do. Everyone I have talked to has never had this problem. In fact, some of them are using Titegroup by the keg and love the stuff. WTF!!!!

I don't mind running into problems. I like the challenge of overcoming them. But from what I understand, this problem is not supposed to be happening and I can't find a solution.

HELP, PLEASE!!!

XDRoX
01-02-2012, 22:12
Take a #2 pencil and color everything with pencil lead. It won't stick to that.

It's probably just the weather. Don't get too discouraged.

Zombie Steve
01-02-2012, 22:32
Did you run a half pound of powder or so through your powder measure before you started? Gets everything nice and coated.

:dunno:

Colorado4Wheel
01-02-2012, 22:56
The bounce sheet may have made everything sticky. So powder will stick to that then. I would try to clean everything the powder touches with a soapy water. The press can be cleaned with WD 40 and a rag. Wipe it dry. Lube the ram with some oil. Everything that powder touch's is aluminum. Wash it, dry it, let it air dry and try again. Lee plastic hoppers can also be static laden at the start. Using the same case over and over and filling and dumping powder in it will solve your sticking problem in the case for testing purposes. Once you get going the static will go away.

fredj338
01-02-2012, 23:15
The bounce sheet may have made everything sticky. So powder will stick to that then. I would try to clean everything the powder touches with a soapy water. The press can be cleaned with WD 40 and a rag. Wipe it dry. Lube the ram with some oil. Everything that powder touch's is aluminum. Wash it, dry it, let it air dry and try again. Lee plastic hoppers can also be static laden at the start. Using the same case over and over and filling and dumping powder in it will solve your sticking problem in the case for testing purposes. Once you get going the static will go away.

All good advice. Once the measure gets a coating of graphite rorm the powder, never wash or clean it again, just dump the powder. I would also take this time to try to get you to put the TG on the shelf & get something a bit more user friendly like WSF to learn on. I just do NOT understand why noobs want to start w/ a powder that is so much more diff to use.:dunno:

redcastle
01-02-2012, 23:21
I didn't know what powder to start with so the guy at the gun shop thought it would be a good idea to start with TG.

fredj338
01-02-2012, 23:26
I didn't know what powder to start with so the guy at the gun shop thought it would be a good idea to start with TG.

Yep, I have never in 35yrs of reloading met anyone working at a gunshop that really knew anything about reloading. TG is probably one of the last powders I would recommend to a noob, right there w/ Bullseye. Noobs need powders w/ a less steep pressure curve & a volume you can easily track in the case w/ a visual check. Really, WSF will be safer for you to use, meters well gives a broader load range in the 9mm.

EL_NinO619
01-03-2012, 00:27
Yep, I have never in 35yrs of reloading met anyone working at a gunshop that really knew anything about reloading. TG is probably one of the last powders I would recommend to a noob, right there w/ Bullseye. Noobs need powders w/ a less steep pressure curve & a volume you can easily track in the case w/ a visual check. Really, WSF will be safer for you to use, meters well gives a broader load range in the 9mm.


Yep, 90% of people that work at gun stores clueless and A-Holes..

kcbrown
01-03-2012, 01:12
Did you run a half pound of powder or so through your powder measure before you started? Gets everything nice and coated.

:dunno:

Alternatively, you might be able to spray graphite lubricant on/in it. That might have the same effect.

:dunno:

Colorado4Wheel
01-03-2012, 06:24
I didn't know what powder to start with so the guy at the gun shop thought it would be a good idea to start with TG.

I started with bullseye and tightgroup if you're careful you will be fine.

fredj338
01-03-2012, 08:39
I started with bullseye and tightgroup if you're really careful you will be fine.
There, changed it for you. The idea that someone will recommend a powder to a noob that has no idea what they want the powder to do & then chooses one w/ a narrow load range & small volume just shows their lack of knowledge on reloading. Gunshop employees, please. Steve, I know you know better.

PhantomF4E
01-03-2012, 08:50
If you have a problem with static where you live due to low humidity , etc. You can get a static bench mat from most electric/computer repair shops or order online. The mats are tough and make a good surface on a reloading bench. It kills static on you bench and anything you put on it as well if you install it right, and should eliminate clinging powder.
As far a static setting off powder, I would not worry too much about it unless you can actually see the static sparks when you touch a door knob or metal in your house. You are not going to ignite powder. If you can feel a static spark in normal skin thickness it is around 600 volts. If you can see it you are into the thousands and it will actually hurt a bit. But even then you would have to have a good solid direct discharge on a grain of powder to set it off. It is pretty stable stuff.

Colorado4Wheel
01-03-2012, 09:55
There, changed it for you. The idea that someone will recommend a powder to a noob that has no idea what they want the powder to do & then chooses one w/ a narrow load range & small volume just shows their lack of knowledge on reloading. Gunshop employees, please. Steve, I know you know better.

I don't care what the gunshot said. I also don't want to make to much out of TG. He needs to look in every case. It's not that big a deal to be attentive.

unclebob
01-03-2012, 10:24
First of all welcome. And welcome to the mad mad mad world of reloading. First I think you are way over uptight with powder exploding. Powder does not explode it burns. Take 3 or 4 grains of smokeless powder and put it on your driveway, in an ashtray etc. and drop a match on it. It is not going to explode it takes a bit for it to even start burning. And then it just looks like a sparkler that kids play with of the 4th.
I would do like what some have suggested and wash the powder measure with dish soap dry off real good. If you have an air compressor blow it out. Get some powdered graphite and squirt some inside the powder measure and on the disks and mechanism. Spread the graphing around the inside of the measure. Put it back together and operate the mechanism a bunch of times. Shake out any excess graphite and add some powder shake it around inside the measure and dispense some powder into a case a bunch of times. The graphite is not going to hurt the powder one bit.
I would get a rubber mat to stand on. And if you still have trouble with static electricity? Run a wire from the press to the center screw on an electrical receptacle.

dkf
01-03-2012, 11:48
If you get too pissed its best just to step away for a while. I was having issues setting up for .380 last night (piss poor neck tension) and just let it sit.

fredj338
01-03-2012, 13:09
I don't care what the gunshot said. I also don't want to make to much out of TG. He needs to look in every case. It's not that big a deal to be attentive.
We all know my feelings on TG. Yes one should be paying due diligence regardless of powder choice, but I wouldn't take recommendations from any gunshop guy about reloading. Every potential noob should be doing their own research instead of asking for handouts. They do NOT have the exp to filter fact from fantasy. TG, BE, etc for noobs are just not the best choice but a lazy response by unknowledable reloaders or guys that love their pet choices w/o considering the experience of the guy they are recommending it to.:dunno:

Steve Koski
01-03-2012, 14:02
Gun store guy advice? Good god. Might as well ask hookers about raising children.

Zombie Steve
01-03-2012, 15:00
How much you wanna bet he had a bunch of TG in stock?

labdwakin
01-03-2012, 15:15
No bet, Steve. And for what it's worth, Fred is right. I was DAMNED lucky I didn't KB my gun with Clays when I first started on 45 acp just because I pulled a noob mistake and forgot to calibrate my digital scale. Like just about everyone before me has said, wash your equipment, then find a way to get a good coat of graphite on it before you really get rolling. Then take your time and enjoy the fruits of your labor at the range! Welcome to the zoo!

Colorado4Wheel
01-03-2012, 15:58
TG isn't nearly as scary as Clays. Clays is just about the worst.

dsa1115
01-03-2012, 16:32
Since its a new powder dispenser, if you haven't you should run a solvent through it first just to make sure it's free of any oil or rust inhibitor. I know some manufacturers oil some of the metal parts including dispensers and dies before they package them. I know my parts are coated when I bought them and the manufacturers directions stated this coating must be cleaned off before use. If you have a thin protective preservative oil like film inside your powder dispenser, you'll have powder adhering to the inside and get inconsistent powder drops. So if you haven't, use a gun solvent to make sure all the internals are completely clean.

Colorado4Wheel
01-03-2012, 16:38
Lee Pro Auto Disc is teflon coated aluminum. It's not oiled up. But it's super staticy when you get it.

GioaJack
01-03-2012, 17:11
TG isn't nearly as scary as Clays. Clays is just about the worst.


What's wrong with Clays? I run it through a 1050 for my .45's and look at me I have all my fingers and am perfectly healthy. :whistling:


Jack

dbarry
01-03-2012, 17:14
Fast burning powders are not such a good idea as fred said (for a newb), but w/ 9mm it is kinda hard to screw up (the case capacity is so small, a double charge is quite evident).

Trail boss is a great starter powder for the larger cases as I'm not sure you could KB a gun w/ it...

Colorado4Wheel
01-03-2012, 17:17
What's wrong with Clays? I run it through a 1050 for my .45's and look at me I have all my fingers and am perfectly healthy. :whistling:


Jack

Ask all the scardy cats.

labdwakin
01-03-2012, 17:27
Nothing at all wrong with Clays... once you've learned to be VERY careful. So I'm a slow learner...

bush pilot
01-03-2012, 18:25
Gun store guy advice? Good god. Might as well ask hookers about raising children.

Once again you're coming down on hookers, what's that about? You wouldn't appreciate them talking down telemarketers.

redcastle
01-03-2012, 18:48
Thanks for all the input. I have stepped back from the situation and feel better now that I have some direction. I did go and buy powder graphite so I've started the process of addressing this maddening problem. I've got allot on my plate right now but will give an update when I get a chance to clean up the powder dispenser and coat it with graphite. Will also get the appropriate gun powder for my situation. Thanks for the help.

firefighter4215
01-04-2012, 10:50
I started with bullseye and tightgroup if you're careful you will be fine.

The very first powders I owned, in that order. If you pay good attention I don't think it matters. And if you don't pay good attention it still may not matter.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Zombie Steve
01-04-2012, 11:38
Fast burning powders are not such a good idea as fred said (for a newb), but w/ 9mm it is kinda hard to screw up (the case capacity is so small, a double charge is quite evident).

Trail boss is a great starter powder for the larger cases as I'm not sure you could KB a gun w/ it...

Easier to spot double charges, yes, but less forgiving in just about every other way because of the minimal case volume.

Steve Koski
01-04-2012, 12:00
Once again you're coming down on hookers, what's that about? You wouldn't appreciate them talking down telemarketers.

Telemarketing is a noble and time honored profession. As is insurance sales.

However, running import/export businesses is usually left to the shadier types and prostitutes past their prime.

Steve Koski
01-04-2012, 12:01
Nothing at all wrong with Clays... once you've learned to be VERY careful. So I'm a slow learner...

Clays SUCKS. Ok, it only half sucks. WST is way better.

GioaJack
01-04-2012, 12:19
I have, (had) 12 pounds of Clays left over from my old 12 gauge skeet and trap days. Since I don't have roses, petunias, marigolds, pansies or even a lawn to use it on as fertilizer like you flatlanders I'm shootin' it.

Basically if I can cram it into a case and it goes boom I'll figure out a way to use it.

Although I've been doing it for decades now that I'm a senior citizen and on a fixed income I've got a legitimate excuse. Anyone have any extra WTF powder? :supergrin:


Jack

Colorado4Wheel
01-04-2012, 12:50
The very first powders I owned, in that order. If you pay good attention I don't think it matters. And if you don't pay good attention it still may not matter.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Bullseye is Old Timer Popular and TiteGroup is the new popular. I think gun shops recommend them because they sell a lot of it. They don't really know anything about the subject. It's just easier to say "Titegroup" to a guy asking for a pistol powder when they know they sell a lot of it to others. You would think Unique would be the one they sell the most. But TiteGroup sounds better I think.

rpgman
01-04-2012, 13:17
so far I've only used Unique for my 9mm and .40 rounds, and it was great when I was using the RCBS ChargeMaster 1500 and every load was perfect, but in my Dillon xl650 it doesn't meter that well.

So, I have a few pounds of BE (Bullseye), HP-38, and WSF I'm going to try.

My wife also purchased a 38 Special, so I wanted to try the HP-38 for those rounds.

Greg

Zombie Steve
01-04-2012, 14:26
I have, (had) 12 pounds of Clays left over from my old 12 gauge skeet and trap days. Since I don't have roses, petunias, marigolds, pansies or even a lawn to use it on as fertilizer like you flatlanders I'm shootin' it.

Basically if I can cram it into a case and it goes boom I'll figure out a way to use it.

Although I've been doing it for decades now that I'm a senior citizen and on a fixed income I've got a legitimate excuse. Anyone have any extra WTF powder? :supergrin:


Jack

You know, I always hated the term "fixed income" that you old SOB's use. When you were in the Air Force, your income was fixed. It didn't change month to month, did it? How about when you were a cop? Why don't you just call it low income? Stinkin' baby boomers.

:fist:

unclebob
01-04-2012, 14:37
You know, I always hated the term "fixed income" that you old SOB's use. When you were in the Air Force, your income was fixed. It didn't change month to month, did it? How about when you were a cop? Why don't you just call it low income? Stinkin' baby boomers.

:fist:

Well at least for me it did. It all depend on if I went TDY or flew combat missions. So yes my pay varied in the Air Force. Wish I was still making full pay of what I made when I was in the Air Force.

GioaJack
01-04-2012, 14:40
You know, I always hated the term "fixed income" that you old SOB's use. When you were in the Air Force, your income was fixed. It didn't change month to month, did it? How about when you were a cop? Why don't you just call it low income? Stinkin' baby boomers.

:fist:


It depended on the level of graft for that particular month. You think jacking up drug dealers is a sure thing? Turns out they're very untrustworthy people and sometimes very hard to find.It bothers me to no end that there are actually people you can't depend on.

Now the only drug dealers I deal with ask for my insurance card. Life has really become very boring. :crying:


Jack

GioaJack
01-04-2012, 14:43
You tell 'im Bob. These young whippersnappers think we had it easy back in the days of dinosaurs and rubbing sticks together to create fire.

Come to think of it I'd like to hear about those days... won't you please tell us. :whistling:

unclebob
01-04-2012, 14:50
You tell 'im Bob. These young whippersnappers think we had it easy back in the days of dinosaurs and rubbing sticks together to create fire.

Hell Jack I didnít even do that in survival school.

creophus
01-05-2012, 07:24
I started with Titegroup in 38spl and everything went fine. I still use more Titgroup than anything else. I like it because a little goes a long way. It does exactly what it's supposed to do so I have no problem with it. If you overcharge you have a problem, if you don't, you don't.

Redcastle it sounds like you need some humidity. Boil a pot of water on your stove or get an ionizer. Running several cases with powder through the measure is a good idea. Do it until the problem goes away.

PsychoKnight
01-06-2012, 21:07
You tell 'im Bob. These young whippersnappers think we had it easy back in the days of dinosaurs and rubbing sticks together to create fire.

Come to think of it I'd like to hear about those days... won't you please tell us. :whistling:

If dino's were still around. What caliber would you choose as your hunting arm for legal sized T-Rex's?

Fixed, or optical sights? What would you have your guide load up as a backup in case it comes a-charging?

unclebob
01-08-2012, 19:43
If dino's were still around. What caliber would you choose as your hunting arm for legal sized T-Rex's?

Fixed, or optical sights? What would you have your guide load up as a backup in case it comes a-charging?

Just take a look at my avatar. No need for a back up

shotgunred
01-08-2012, 21:41
I have, (had) 12 pounds of Clays left over from my old 12 gauge skeet and trap days. Since I don't have roses, petunias, marigolds, pansies or even a lawn to use it on as fertilizer like you flatlanders I'm shootin' it.

Basically if I can cram it into a case and it goes boom I'll figure out a way to use it.

Although I've been doing it for decades now that I'm a senior citizen and on a fixed income I've got a legitimate excuse. Anyone have any extra WTF powder? :supergrin:


Jack
As a matter of fact i will shortly. I am now the proud owner of an ammo can of someone else s reloads. I expect to have a fair amount of WTF powder real soon.

redcastle
02-04-2012, 19:24
Sorry it's been so long to get back. I just installed a wood burning stove in the house and had my hands full with installing a chimney.

I followed the suggestions you have all posted. I washed the powder dispenser with soap and water, dried it off, placed some graphite in the hopper and shook it all about. I also washed the auto disk and covered it with graphite as well. I took the die and sprayed it with WD40, wiped it off and cleaned the rest of the press with WD40 as well. I oiled the ram and put the press back together.

I partially filled the hopper with Tite Group and ran it through the press. To my surprise, the problem is gone!

Thanks for all the suggestions, this problem was a real pain in the butt, but I did learn something new. Now, I need to get the appropriate powder that was mentioned and then it's on to setting up the remaining dies.

Thanks again.

cole
02-04-2012, 21:49
Yep, I have never in 35yrs of reloading met anyone working at a gunshop that really knew anything about reloading. TG is probably one of the last powders I would recommend to a noob, right there w/ Bullseye. Noobs need powders w/ a less steep pressure curve & a volume you can easily track in the case w/ a visual check. Really, WSF will be safer for you to use, meters well gives a broader load range in the 9mm.

Good advice. I've burned a lot of TG (because it's cheap) in 9mm and .45acp, Clays (because it's cheap) in .45acp, and still burn a lot of BE (because it's cheap) in .45acp. In 9mm I'm running Unique (because it's medium burn, versatile and cheap) for plated, and still have a lot of TG on standby. I have no qualms with TG or BE in 9mm, but agree it's not the ideal choice starting out. WSF is a great powder, just a bit more expensive that TG, BE and Unique.

El_Ron1
02-04-2012, 23:23
Gun store guy advice? Good god. Might as well ask hookers about raising children.

Richard Pryor grew up in a brothel.

fredj338
02-05-2012, 11:31
Good advice. I've burned a lot of TG (because it's cheap) in 9mm and .45acp, Clays (because it's cheap) in .45acp, and still burn a lot of BE (because it's cheap) in .45acp. In 9mm I'm running Unique (because it's medium burn, versatile and cheap) for plated, and still have a lot of TG on standby. I have no qualms with TG or BE in 9mm, but agree it's not the ideal choice starting out. WSF is a great powder, just a bit more expensive that TG, BE and Unique.

Yeah, many noob reloaders & some old timers, get sucked into the TG is cheap thing. Really?? Consider that powder is the cheapest aprt of a handgun reload, powder cost is just not an issue when you break it down. Not counting HM or shipping, they would be the same, it looks like this:
124gr FMJ 9mm TG load = 0.0095c/rd
124gr FMJ 9mm WSF = 0.0120c/rd
So you "save" a whopping 1/5c per rd. Changing primers will save you more, changing bullets will save you a lot more. And you would be running the same vel w/ slighty less pressures using WSF. You can see the powder charge more easily, it burns cooler, no downside to using WSF vs TG EXCEPT, for running realy low vel gamer loads. WSF, like other med burners, runs best above midrange pressure/vel levels.

cole
02-05-2012, 11:49
Yeah, many noob reloaders & some old timers, get sucked into the TG is cheap thing. Really?? Consider that powder is the cheapest aprt of a handgun reload, powder cost is just not an issue when you break it down. Not counting HM or shipping, they would be the same, it looks like this:
124gr FMJ 9mm TG load = 0.0095c/rd
124gr FMJ 9mm WSF = 0.0120c/rd
So you "save" a whopping 1/5c per rd. Changing primers will save you more, changing bullets will save you a lot more. And you would be running the same vel w/ slighty less pressures using WSF. You can see the powder charge more easily, it burns cooler, no downside to using WSF vs TG EXCEPT, for running realy low vel gamer loads. WSF, like other med burners, runs best above midrange pressure/vel levels.

I don't bother with the per round math for powder. What I know is last time I bought 32# it saved me over $80. That's $80, and $80 is $80 as the bullets still come out the end of the barrel. And the faster powders load more rounds increasing the savings. I reload to save money. It all adds up. I would never choose TG or BE over WSF at the same price, but that's not my reality. Actually, Unique gets it done well and for just as cheap, and IMO it's not as filthy as many state. Regardless, I clean my guns so soot is a non-issue anyway. Point remains: TG, Clays, BE and the other fast burners are not ideal choices IMO for new reloaders, expecially in small volume cases like 9mm and .40sw.

KenMac
02-07-2012, 16:31
Just in case anyone else reads this, a humidifier should be able to maintain a 45 to 55% relative humidity in your reloading room and greatly reduce or eliminate static issues. That is what controls static in multi-million dollar computer rooms.

aerod1
02-09-2012, 20:01
You have purchased a great press for the money. I have been using one for years. When your powder measure gets a good coating of powder residue it will work great!! I coated mine with powdered graphite. I works great!

azron
02-09-2012, 20:56
Yep, I have never in 35yrs of reloading met anyone working at a gunshop that really knew anything about reloading. TG is probably one of the last powders I would recommend to a noob, right there w/ Bullseye. Noobs need powders w/ a less steep pressure curve & a volume you can easily track in the case w/ a visual check. Really, WSF will be safer for you to use, meters well gives a broader load range in the 9mm.

Huh lets see i started with bullseye and tightgroup with now problems at all.
Oh and gasp I also started with an xl650.

Been doing it for 10 years now not a single issue.