Query for 9mm powder [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Lord270
01-05-2012, 17:20
Hey everybody I have been reloading for about 1 and 1/2 years but I have only been reloading for rifles and I am starting to get ready to reload 9mm I reload using a RCBS Rock Chucker My main question and query is I am looking at using Alliant Power Pistol for my powder. Does anyone have any experience with this powder the other powder I looked at was Tightgroup but I have heard bad reviews about it for starters and I can get PP cheaper than TG and the range is closer as well the bullets I am looking at are Raniers

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GioaJack
01-05-2012, 17:26
Federal law mandates that all 9mm rounds be loaded with UNIQUE.

Obama finally did something right.


Jack

Colorado4Wheel
01-05-2012, 17:28
Hey everybody I have been reloading for about 1 and 1/2 years but I have only been reloading for rifles and I am starting to get ready to reload 9mm I reload using a RCBS Rock Chucker My main question and query is I am looking at using Alliant Power Pistol for my powder. Does anyone have any experience with this powder the other powder I looked at was Tightgroup but I have heard bad reviews about it for starters and I can get PP cheaper than TG and the range is closer as well the bullets I am looking at are Raniers

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So you mention TG which is great for Bunny Fart type loads and Power Pistol which is great for Factory Style Full Power Loads. What do you want to make?

Lord270
01-05-2012, 17:29
Self Defense / competition loads

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Roughedgekid
01-05-2012, 17:37
I have used PP in 40 cal's with good results but I agree with Jack that Unique is the best all around powder for most pistol loads.

bigleaf
01-05-2012, 17:45
The fellow I reload with uses PP in his .38 Spl and .40 S&W loads. He likes it. He likes Bullseye, too.

I've had my best results with Titegroup, in 124s and 147s. Bullseye worked nicely. Not as nice as the TG, but I'd certainly use it in a pinch.

Buy one pound of the PP and give it a try across the range of loads. Borrow something else from a friend and make twenty-five or fifty rounds to try. Try and try again. You'll end up with something you really like.

glockaviator
01-05-2012, 17:48
I recommend you use a powder that fills more than 1/2 the case. Impossible to double charge that way. (this isnt a problem with rifle rounds)

WvHiker
01-05-2012, 17:51
I use PP for 9mm. I get quite a bit of fire even though I'm well under max loadings, but it's accurate, fun to shoot and doesn't seem to recoil any more than NATO White Box I get at the local store. I think one of my manuals list PP as a top choice for 9mm.

F106 Fan
01-05-2012, 17:54
Self Defense / competition loads

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Those are two different things. Self defense loads will be blazing fast with no concern for recoil. The will probably be jacketed hollow points and will certainly not be lead or plated bullets.

Competition loads will barely make the required power factor and controlling recoil is everything. They might as well be lead bullets because plated bullets cost just as much as FMJ. Unless range rules prevent the use of lead bullets.

In fact, if you want to pay the price for plated bullets, why not look at FMJ for which there is a ton of published load data. Zero or Precision Delta might look attractive.

The Zero 115 gr FMJ is about $100/1000:
http://shootersconnectionstore.com/Zero-Bullets-C153.aspx

Precision Delta 115 gr FMJ is $76/1000 free shipping.
http://www.precisiondelta.com/detail.php?sku=B-9-115-FMJ

The Rainier plated bullet equivalent is about $85/1000 and load data has to be worked up.
http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&prodID=RH00932&src=tpMfg

Berry's plated are about $83/1000 free shipping but load data has to be worked up.
http://www.berrysmfg.com/product-i14474-c11-g8-b0-p0-9mm_115gr_RN.aspx

If you actually need a total jacket (for range rules), you can try Montana Gold 115 gr CMJ for < $80/1000 in 4000 round cases.
https://www.montanagoldbullet.com/pricelist.html

There isn't any published data for any plated bullets. Rainier says use lead loading data, Berry's says use mid-range jacketed data but it doesn't appear that either of them have done any testing that they are willing to publish. Personally, I'll just pass on plated bullets.

Rainier also says that it is possible to use mid-range jacketed bullet load data if lead data isn't available. But Alliant still doesn't provide a range of loads.

You should probably buy a copy of the Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading 8th Edition. Most LGS's have it as does Midway.

Richard

Skytow
01-05-2012, 18:06
Unique... Jack says.


+ it will fill the case and you can load it up or down as you need (mid range to pretty hot anyway)

JD

D. Manley
01-05-2012, 18:20
Power Pistol is actually a very good 9MM powder especially, at full power loadings. The only down side is that it's a bit loud and has a significant muzzle flash...although, some folks like that sort of thing. If you want to explore alternatives, for 115 & 124 grain bullets, I prefer N-330, Silhouette and WSF...all produce very accurate, safe, loads.

Colorado4Wheel
01-05-2012, 19:23
PP is a great powder for SD loads that will be shot outside.

fredj338
01-05-2012, 21:13
TG, you're kidding right? Like C4W notes, good bunnyfart load but not even on the radar for full power ammo IMO. PP is quite accurate but I am not a fan of the blast, especially in shorter bbls. Unique is a great midrange to full power choice, some complain about metering. WSF is a better metering Unique, Universal is right there too.

akroguy
01-05-2012, 21:44
I've been using WW231 or HP38 (same stuff, really) for years in both .45ACP and 9mm with great results. Power Pistol does seem like great stuff too, but since I bought 16 pounds of HP38 last year, I'm set for a while!

TX expat
01-05-2012, 23:00
I load a lot of 9mm and all my .40 rounds with Power Pistol. I think it's a pretty good powder and would be a good choice based on your needs. It will provide a little more audio/visual entertainment than some other choices. My wife doesn't care for those rounds for that reason, so I load her 9mm practice rounds with W231 and I've been happy with that as well.

***guess I should add that I don't do any competitive shooting, so my rounds are practice rounds only.

kcbrown
01-06-2012, 01:58
I have used PP in 40 cal's with good results but I agree with Jack that Unique is the best all around powder for most pistol loads.

Except I thought that Unique didn't meter worth spit in progressive powder measures (Dillon's and Lee's, in particular. Might be fine in RCBS/Hornady). That makes it not so good for high-volume pistol shooters for anything other than rapid fire range fodder...

I use Silhouette myself, but even the maximum loads don't get you as much recoil as self-defense loads or even standard-pressure factory rounds (for 124 grain 9mm, or 180 grain .40 S&W). AA#5 seems to be better for that in 9mm (haven't tried it for .40, and probably won't). Silhouette might be just the thing if you want to push things a bit. People are using it with a lot of success to make major power factor in 9mm, but they're loading long. Might be okay to go a couple of tenths above max charge with it in a standard OAL in 9mm, might not (they try to keep pressures below standard SAAMI max, but +P/NATO and +P+ are higher than that). :dunno:

kcbrown
01-06-2012, 02:06
The Rainier plated bullet equivalent is about $85/1000 and load data has to be worked up.
http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&prodID=RH00932&src=tpMfg

Berry's plated are about $83/1000 free shipping but load data has to be worked up.
http://www.berrysmfg.com/product-i14474-c11-g8-b0-p0-9mm_115gr_RN.aspx


To be fair, the load is going to have to be worked up regardless, if one has even a modest amount of sense.



There isn't any published data for any plated bullets. Rainier says use lead loading data, Berry's says use mid-range jacketed data but it doesn't appear that either of them have done any testing that they are willing to publish. Personally, I'll just pass on plated bullets.


Yep. Another disadvantage is that they're very sensitive to crimp. Overcrimp even a little and you'll damage the plating and accuracy will go in the toilet.

shotgunred
01-06-2012, 07:12
Power pistol is a great choice for your full power loads. I have used it in IDPA loads as well. But you put yourself at a competitive disadvantage because of the extra recoil. But if your goal is to practice with full power loads it is a good choice. Just don't expect to win while using it.

creophus
01-06-2012, 09:00
I've used both for 9mm, in 115gr and 147gr bullets. Either will do what you want. PP is notorious for muzzle flash, so keep that in mind if you load SD rounds.

What's up with all the Titegroup haters?

Lord270
01-06-2012, 09:14
Ok. So the PP is a good powder all in all except for the recoil factor, the recoil doesn't matter to me, I am used to dealing with recoil. I am quite a big stout man.

I mean the whole flashy/loud factor doesn't bother me, the reloads I do for my 270 (which I use in F-class open competition) are loud, send a long flame out my barrel, kick like a mule, and everybody says sounds like a d@*n cannon don't bother me cause I also use them for deer hunting as well, and I hunt out of a open lean to stand.

The competition I am going into is GSSF and they don't require a large amount of rounds for every competition, I think I remember somebody said around 50-60 each division. My reloads will mostly be HD rounds

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creophus
01-06-2012, 09:24
My concern isn't the recoil, but rather the flash. Some say that during a SD/HD scenario a flash could impair your ability to see in low light.

I don't know how much that actually matters to you.

F106 Fan
01-06-2012, 09:36
To be fair, the load is going to have to be worked up regardless, if one has even a modest amount of sense.



Re: having to work up loads for plated bullets.

My problem with working up loads for plated bullets is that there is not a shred of published data to start with. "Use mid-range jacketed loads" or "use load data for lead bullets" isn't all that helpful.

I like published data that says "Hey, we got this velocity out of this gun with these components assembled this way." If I make the same load and use a fairly comparable gun, I can measure with a chronograph to see how close I got. With tables from loading handbooks, it is possible to select a load and predict what the velocity will be. One thing I know, the load has been tested and is 'safe'. I have no such comfort level with plated bullets.

If plated bullets were priced at 10% over lead bullets, it would be worth the time to deal with them. In many cases, plated bullets are priced at or above the cost of FMJ so why bother?

My goal in reloading pistol ammo is not to advance the art of reloading. I just want to shoot. Brass goes in the case feeder and, eventually, bullets come out of the barrel. The less I have to do in the middle, the better.

Richard

Lord270
01-06-2012, 09:39
Not much, cause whether it is from the 9mm, the 12 guage, the 357, or the M4 the house is going to get illuminated and they are going to be in a world of hurt, luckily I live in the country so no neighbors to wake up when the blasting commences

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fredj338
01-06-2012, 10:41
Except I thought that Unique didn't meter worth spit in progressive powder measures (Dillon's and Lee's, in particular. Might be fine in RCBS/Hornady). That makes it not so good for high-volume pistol shooters for anything other than rapid fire range fodder...
:dunno:
I have no issue getting 0.1gr accuracy w/ Unique in my Dillon or RCBS measures. Proper setup & technique give good results. Ball powders are a bit better, but Unique can be made to meter fine for 99% of ones needs.
What's up with all the Titegroup haters?
I think I am the only true TG hater. The reasons have been given many times. I am not one to get into unitasker powders, prefer a powder I can use for more than one thing & I rarely shoot bunny fart loads. While you can put together full power loads using TG, you are pushing that powder to do that so why? Oh I know, because it sooooooo much cheaper than other, like 1/5 of a penny per round. Alos a terrible noob powder for again, all the reasons previously posted. For the knowledeable that want to save 1/5 of a penny, I have no issues.

SigFTW
01-06-2012, 11:40
I tried TG on my 9mm, going back to Unique. That was what I was using back when I was loading 9mm so I will stick with Unique.

oldsoldier
01-06-2012, 12:35
WSF is my favorite for 9MM.

fredj338
01-06-2012, 13:30
I tried TG on my 9mm, going back to Unique. That was what I was using back when I was loading 9mm so I will stick with Unique.

I love the accuracy of Unique w/ any bullet but especially lead. WSF is a better metering option but Unique still holds a slight edge in lead bullet accuracy for me.

GioaJack
01-06-2012, 13:33
:whistling:


Jack

mizer67
01-06-2012, 14:12
Power Pistol is missing flash inhibitors and is very, very loud. They should call it Loud Pistol.

It is accurate though, one of the best US powders in 9mm.

Try 6.0 - 6.2 grains for a 115 FMJ for a nice, stout, accurate load (1.135" OAL for my Glocks with a MG 115 CMJ).

Try 5.4 - 5.8 grains for a 124 MG CMJ at the same OAL.

lunchboxtheman
01-06-2012, 14:30
I use Power Pistol in my 9mm loads. I've shot about 500 rounds of reloads through my g19 using 4 different loads and I have never experienced the huge muzzle flash everyone talks about. YMMV.

It's a flake powder but I've found that it meters very well in my Lee auto disk powder measure both in single stage and in auto indexing mode. I've thrown 5-10 charges in a row and they all come out with a variance of less than 0.1 grain.

I've used anywhere from 5.0 grains (it felt like a .22lr) all the way up to 6.2 grains. I never have double charged a case but even with the 5 grain load I feel like it filled more than half the case so the chances of not noticing a double charge are pretty low.

PP runs a little bit cleaner than Federal Champion factory ammo too which is nice.