Have Hornady LNL-Thinking about Dillon XL650-Thoughts???? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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glock30sfuser
01-07-2012, 16:06
I currently own a Hornady LNL with the case feeder. I load 9mm and .45acp and will soon be loading .40. I have been having several problems with the primer assembly locking up and also the case feeder has been very hit or miss. It is great when it runs flawlessly but with me that has rarely been happening lately. With a little research it appears that Hornady LNL bring more now then they did 2 years ago on ebay and that dillons case feeder runs very flawless from what I have read. What is everyones opinion on making the move from hornady to dillon?

F106 Fan
01-07-2012, 16:16
I don't know how difficult it is to change calibers and primer mechanisms for the XL650. It's fairly straightforward on the RL550B but, still, I have one for small primers and one for large primers - talk about LAZY! I suspect the caliber change is easy but I'm not sure about changing the primer mechanism.

One of the other fellows can talk about the changeover.

The Dillon case feeder works pretty well but mine is not perfect. From time to time, a case gets jammed and stalls the wheel. I need to trim the lever arm on the microswitch because it is just about 1/16" too long and hangs up on the drop tube. This is on my 1050.

I have another Dillon case feeder that I used on my RCBS Green Machine. It had the same jam issue.

But, maybe the jams are on the order of 3 or 4 per thousand. Not a big deal and it's not like there aren't a bunch of cases in the tube. You get to where you hear the case feeder turn as you load each cartridge. You notice when it stops making noise.

Does it make sense to set up the 650 for small primer and keep the LNL for large primer?

Richard

Hoser
01-07-2012, 16:16
Good choice. But I am a fanboy...

Colorado4Wheel
01-07-2012, 17:06
My LnL was like yours. Seldom was the complete case feeder setup reliable. My 650 is worlds better. It's not even close. I don't worry about the changeover times. It's not that big a deal.

shotgunred
01-07-2012, 18:26
The only issue with the 650 is the cost of caliber conversions.

The second issue is you tend to run out of components really fast with the 650.

glock30sfuser
01-07-2012, 18:55
Yes I am having horrible problems with the hornady case feeder with cases falling off the press or being flipped the wrong direction or being tipped probably 1 in 10 cases are like that. Should I go dillon?

fredj338
01-07-2012, 18:58
The 650 case feeder is that much better than a LNL. You can tinker w/ the LNL & get it pretty close to 100%, but not w/o a bit of work. THe 650 is not perfect either, the worst that happens for me is it will sometimes feed a case upside down. I don't even know how to go about fixing that issue. Far quieter & more reliable going w/ the 650, but to each his own.

F106 Fan
01-07-2012, 19:45
Yes I am having horrible problems with the hornady case feeder with cases falling off the press or being flipped the wrong direction or being tipped probably 1 in 10 cases are like that. Should I go dillon?


Absolutely!

Even in the case where the case feeder turns one upside down (one or two in the last 1000 I loaded), all it means is that there will be an empty spot in the shell plate after the errant brass is removed or falls to the ground (on a Dillon 1050). Not a big deal.

Richard

mizer67
01-07-2012, 19:58
Yes I am having horrible problems with the hornady case feeder with cases falling off the press or being flipped the wrong direction or being tipped probably 1 in 10 cases are like that. Should I go dillon?

Few people have loaded on both an XL650 and a LNL AP.

I'm one of the few that owns both. The Dillon is a better machine, hands down for production of a single caliber without issues, and it's not even a contest when you add in the case feeders.

The Dillon case feeder just works, in comparison to the Hornady. I've never had a jam in the shell plate. The cases do not stick sideways in the drop tube funnel. They do not fly off the sub plate. They do not tip while entering the shell plate, as they are guided in by a track. Brass doesn't rain on your head. The shell advance mechanism doesn't bind. For the person that had the microswitch bind on the drop tube, you do not need to cut it, just raise the case feeder up and tighten down the retaining screw. I will get an upside down case or two per 1K, but I assume that's because even with a solid bench, the case feeder still moves during operation slightly. Dillon's primer seating is much more robust and has greater leverage as well, which greatly speeds production without the chance of high primers.


The cons of the XL650 are the cost of caliber conversions, it's generally more complex, indexing isn't as smooth, primer catch system stinks, the primers advance without a case present, causing set up delays and (in my opinon) the powder measure on the Hornday is simpler, more robust and less complex. The toolhead is also more cramped.

glock30sfuser
01-07-2012, 20:37
It sounds pretty convincing that if you dont want to fiddle with a hornady LNL every day and the increased cost of the dillon doesnt bother you to go ahead and get the dillon press

ron59
01-07-2012, 20:56
I've only loaded 800 on my new 650 (9mm) and have had exactly one case feed upside down. I think it was my fault as I was trying to go a little too fast. My table is big and heavy but is not bolted to the wall/floor, and shakes just a tad if I'm going too fast. I've gone just slightly slower, and it is working perfectly.

I reload in the garage, so my floor is concrete and the wall is brick. And the previous owner covered THAT with some cheap paneling, so I can't even seen the mortar to try and attach something to the wall. With the whole thing being paneled, I don't want to remove one section for my bench. :dunno:

PCJim
01-07-2012, 21:31
Ron, I don't know the specific construction of your garage, but would offer the following. If brick veneer on the outside, you probably have standard 2x4 framing in your garage walls. If concrete block with a stucco finish, there will be furring strips, typically a 1x2, nailed to the block upon which the paneling will be attached. (I doubt seriously that someone direct nailed or glued it, but who knows?).

You could make a test hole in a very inconspicuous location to confirm one of the above. If it is concrete brick with furring strips, you could get some Tapcon bolts and strategically affix your bench. If 2x4 framing, try to use an electrical box as a benchmark to locate the studs.

My bench isn't attached to the concrete block wall - it doesn't move due to sheer size and the amount of weight on the second/lower shelf.

ron59
01-07-2012, 22:00
Ron, I don't know the specific construction of your garage, but would offer the following. If brick veneer on the outside, you probably have standard 2x4 framing in your garage walls. If concrete block with a stucco finish, there will be furring strips, typically a 1x2, nailed to the block upon which the paneling will be attached. (I doubt seriously that someone direct nailed or glued it, but who knows?).

You could make a test hole in a very inconspicuous location to confirm one of the above. If it is concrete brick with furring strips, you could get some Tapcon bolts and strategically affix your bench. If 2x4 framing, try to use an electrical box as a benchmark to locate the studs.

My bench isn't attached to the concrete block wall - it doesn't move due to sheer size and the amount of weight on the second/lower shelf.

Thanks man... I will look into that. I have wondered how they attached that paneling, if it was straight to the brick wall... as you're saying, it probably isn't but I just don't know what's behind it.

I actually might try your second "idea" first... lots of weight on the bottom shelf. My bench is 6'x3'. I could get some concrete pavers and stack on the bottom in the back, I have plenty of room.

Colorado4Wheel
01-07-2012, 22:00
Yes I am having horrible problems with the hornady case feeder with cases falling off the press or being flipped the wrong direction or being tipped probably 1 in 10 cases are like that. Should I go dillon?

I couldn't get my LnL better then 99% after a lot of work. My 650 is much better then 99%. I can't remember the last time I had a misfeed with a case. 650 has a case retainer to hold the case in place as it get inserted. The case feeder has two speeds which helps you tune the speed to the type of case your loading. EVERY machine has issues with cases sometimes not dropping or jamming in just as they leave the plate. It's rare. 650 is way better in this regard as well.

Just get the 650.

Colorado4Wheel
01-07-2012, 22:03
Few people have loaded on both an XL650 and a LNL AP.

I'm one of the few that owns both. The Dillon is a better machine, hands down for production of a single caliber without issues, and it's not even a contest when you add in the case feeders.

The Dillon case feeder just works, in comparison to the Hornady. I've never had a jam in the shell plate. The cases do not stick sideways in the drop tube funnel. They do not fly off the sub plate. They do not tip while entering the shell plate, as they are guided in by a track. Brass doesn't rain on your head. The shell advance mechanism doesn't bind. For the person that had the microswitch bind on the drop tube, you do not need to cut it, just raise the case feeder up and tighten down the retaining screw. I will get an upside down case or two per 1K, but I assume that's because even with a solid bench, the case feeder still moves during operation slightly. Dillon's primer seating is much more robust and has greater leverage as well, which greatly speeds production without the chance of high primers.


The cons of the XL650 are the cost of caliber conversions, it's generally more complex, indexing isn't as smooth, primer catch system stinks, the primers advance without a case present, causing set up delays and (in my opinon) the powder measure on the Hornday is simpler, more robust and less complex. The toolhead is also more cramped.

I two have owned both.


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r215/98sr20ve/DSC_3504.jpg

GioaJack
01-07-2012, 22:05
Unless you're on the space shuttle that can go to 104% power, (never did figure out how that works), how can anything be much better than 100%?

If I've told you once I've told you a million times... quit exaggerating. :fist:


Jack

shotgunred
01-07-2012, 22:12
I owned both also. Quite frankly my 650 case feeder had some issues at first and it took a couple hundred rounds to get it dialed in.
The 650 hasn't overcome the 550 as my favorite press. But it has only seen light use as I blew out my leg a few months after I got my 650.

IndyGunFreak
01-07-2012, 22:13
I debated heavily between the 650 and LNL, never used an LNL, but I am not sorry in the least in my decision for a 650. It's not that difficult to change calibers, etc...

The one thing I don't like about it, is like was said above, how a primer gets ejected whether there is a case present or not. It's not that big of a deal, if you really want to prevent it, you can remove the primer cam, and index your primers manually till everything is set up. *If "spent" primers are missing your cup, there's a lot of fixes out there for that, including an easy bolt on replacement that is similar to the Hornady (tube into a trash can) from Uniquetek.

IGF

glock30sfuser
01-08-2012, 13:07
1 21079 Casefeed Assembly - Small Pistol (650/1050)(@ $ 218.95 ea.) $218.95

1 16944 Dillon XL 650 in 38 Super/9mm(@ $ 566.95 ea.) $566.95

1 97017 650 Maintenance & Spare Parts Kit(@ $ 39.95 ea.) $39.95

1 10443 650 Machine Cover(@ $ 39.95 ea.) $39.95

1 21072 Casefeed Plate - Large Pistol (550/650/1050(@ $ 38.95 ea.) $38.95

1 21071 XL 650 Caliber Conv: 45 ACP/GAP(@ $ 77.95 ea.) $77.95

Everything that has been ordered. Obviously I have dies and everything from the Hornady. Did I miss anything thats a must have. I thought about the strong mount but my bench is very secure (3" Screws into the wall, 2x6 framing and tapconed into the floor) and its already at 36" height so I will see how it is before I order that. Basically any other must haves that I need to get?

GioaJack
01-08-2012, 13:10
You probably should own at least one gun, otherwise you're going to get bored.


Jack

fredj338
01-08-2012, 13:12
I've only loaded 800 on my new 650 (9mm) and have had exactly one case feed upside down. I think it was my fault as I was trying to go a little too fast. My table is big and heavy but is not bolted to the wall/floor, and shakes just a tad if I'm going too fast. I've gone just slightly slower, and it is working perfectly.

I reload in the garage, so my floor is concrete and the wall is brick. And the previous owner covered THAT with some cheap paneling, so I can't even seen the mortar to try and attach something to the wall. With the whole thing being paneled, I don't want to remove one section for my bench. :dunno:

Ron, a case feeding upside down can NOT be the reloaders fault, it falls into the feeder that way. No, it just happens, I don't know why, but I doubt there is any way to make it 100% reliable. Better than the LNL system by far though.

labdwakin
01-08-2012, 14:32
I personally prefer my solution... just get one 650 for large primers and one for small primers. That cuts down on changeover time considerably. However, if you fear for the continued good health of various and sundry of your bodily appendages should your significant other happen to realize what you have done... I guess one will do.

shotgunred
01-08-2012, 15:12
One for rifle and one for pistol makes more sense to me. But everything I reload for shoots small primers.

SpringerTGO
01-08-2012, 15:55
1 21079 Casefeed Assembly - Small Pistol (650/1050)(@ $ 218.95 ea.) $218.95

1 16944 Dillon XL 650 in 38 Super/9mm(@ $ 566.95 ea.) $566.95

1 97017 650 Maintenance & Spare Parts Kit(@ $ 39.95 ea.) $39.95

1 10443 650 Machine Cover(@ $ 39.95 ea.) $39.95

1 21072 Casefeed Plate - Large Pistol (550/650/1050(@ $ 38.95 ea.) $38.95

1 21071 XL 650 Caliber Conv: 45 ACP/GAP(@ $ 77.95 ea.) $77.95

Everything that has been ordered. Obviously I have dies and everything from the Hornady. Did I miss anything thats a must have. I thought about the strong mount but my bench is very secure (3" Screws into the wall, 2x6 framing and tapconed into the floor) and its already at 36" height so I will see how it is before I order that. Basically any other must haves that I need to get?

The roller handle is pretty much a "must have".

rpgman
01-08-2012, 16:02
The roller handle is pretty much a "must have".

Agreed.
I have one n it's way better than the ball handle.

Greg

WiskyT
01-08-2012, 16:04
The roller handle is pretty much a "must have".

I have one, I don't like it. I put the ball back on. Most people like the roller better.

glock30sfuser
01-08-2012, 16:15
I just e mailed him and told brian i want the strong mount, roller handle in aluminum and the bullet tray. Is he usually pretty good about answering e mails or should I also call? I guess the case feeder and case feed plates will be on e bay tonight haha

rpgman
01-08-2012, 16:55
I just e mailed him and told brian i want the strong mount, roller handle in aluminum and the bullet tray. Is he usually pretty good about answering e mails or should I also call? I guess the case feeder and case feed plates will be on e bay tonight haha

He's great answering emails.
Brian's a great guy.
Greg

SpringerTGO
01-09-2012, 14:09
I just e mailed him and told brian i want the strong mount, roller handle in aluminum and the bullet tray. Is he usually pretty good about answering e mails or should I also call? I guess the case feeder and case feed plates will be on e bay tonight haha

Those are all good additions.

Boxerglocker
01-09-2012, 14:22
Ron, a case feeding upside down can NOT be the reloaders fault, it falls into the feeder that way. No, it just happens, I don't know why, but I doubt there is any way to make it 100% reliable. Better than the LNL system by far though.

Honestly, I have never had a single upside down case fall through my feeder since I have had it, no bumper mods to the bowl. I read a long time ago before buying the XL650 that the main reason for that happening is overloading the case-feeder bowl. I load 300 or 600 round sessions at a time. I lube my brass and place 300 cases at at time in those square disposable Tupperware bowls (they hold approx 330 cases when level)... have then at the ready on the bench, when my case-feeder runs out and just dump them in. Hardly breaks my stride, actually I usually stop at 300 reload the bowl and primer tube... grab a cold drink or have a smoke in between. For rifle 200-225 is the max I like to load in the bowl.

rpgman
01-09-2012, 14:35
Honestly, I have never had a single upside down case fall through my feeder since I have had it, no bumper mods to the bowl. I read a long time ago before buying the XL650 that the main reason for that happening is overloading the case-feeder bowl. I load 300 or 600 round sessions at a time. I lube my brass and place 300 cases at at time in those square disposable Tupperware bowls (they hold approx 330 cases when level)... have then at the ready on the bench, when my case-feeder runs out and just dump them in. Hardly breaks my stride, actually I usually stop at 300 reload the bowl and primer tube... grab a cold drink or have a smoke in between. For rifle 200-225 is the max I like to load in the bowl.

never had an upside down case either.

I usually load about 200/300 cases in the case feeder at a time.

unclebob
01-09-2012, 14:55
I think it has more to do with when the case drops out of the case feed plate and hits the funnel and flips. Or it hits just right and bridges the funnel backing up the cases. This is mostly with 9mm and probably .380 I donít think I ever had a .45acp case flip. The load style funnel had a insert for 9mm. Worked great but you had to pull the insert out if you loaded anything else. Even if you get a flipped case it is no big deal. Just pull back on the case insert reach in pull the case out and put it in the right way.

Colorado4Wheel
01-09-2012, 14:59
Honestly, I have never had a single upside down case fall through my feeder since I have had it, no bumper mods to the bowl. I read a long time ago before buying the XL650 that the main reason for that happening is overloading the case-feeder bowl. I load 300 or 600 round sessions at a time. I lube my brass and place 300 cases at at time in those square disposable Tupperware bowls (they hold approx 330 cases when level)... have then at the ready on the bench, when my case-feeder runs out and just dump them in. Hardly breaks my stride, actually I usually stop at 300 reload the bowl and primer tube... grab a cold drink or have a smoke in between. For rifle 200-225 is the max I like to load in the bowl.

I have found the same. I use a little dog food scoop. I only put about 300 or so 9mm cases in the bowl. I don't get upside down cases any longer as well. I did the same with my LnL but I had to mod the bowl and everything to get it 99%. Both machine would/will on occasion fail to drop the case and at the very last minute it will jam against the bowl and the casefeeder plate. It's rare but it happens. It was much worse on the LnL. Bracing the bowl like in my picture above helps a good amount. I highly recommend it.

ron59
01-09-2012, 15:15
I've already had that one flipped case, and I know I had less than 300 rounds in the bowl. I wasn't putting many in at first in case I had some issue, wouldn't have to dump things out.

Once I had the press all setup and was ready to start running rounds through, I only put in about 10 primers just in case there was an issue with the primer mechanism... didn't want 100 primers in the tube and having to deal with that.

I try to think ahead, LOL

F106 Fan
01-09-2012, 15:23
I have had .45 ACP cases flip and plug up the funnel ahead of the drop tube. Again, I can here it because the motor keeps running and there is no sound of cases dropping. Of course, that's the same non-sound I don't hear when a case jams the shell plate. It's pretty easy to fix.

I agree that loading fewer cases helps. In fact, I think Dillon mentions not loading too many cases. Nevertheless, I load about 500 .45 cases at a time and just deal with the problems (if any). I figure I'll load about 100 in the next 5 minutes and then I'll be down to 400. After I reload the primer tube, I'll load another hundred in about 5 minutes and I'll be down where I should be. Yes, I know there is a fallacy in this logic.

I think running the feeder on 'Slow' might help but going slow just isn't in my nature.

Richard

shotgunred
01-09-2012, 15:57
My dad asked me to load some ammo for a new gun he just got.
This is what hurts with the 650!

XL 650 Caliber Conversion Kit
$77.95

Dillon Powder Die
$11.25

Dillon Plate Large Pistol
$38.95

XL 650 Toolhead
$27.95

Dillon Carbide Pistol Dies (Three-Die Sets)
$63.95

Standard Shipping
$19.99

Grand Total:
$240.04

PCJim
01-09-2012, 16:04
My dad asked me to load some ammo for a new gun he just got.
This is what hurts with the 650!

XL 650 Caliber Conversion Kit
$77.95

Dillon Powder Die
$11.25

Dillon Plate Large Pistol
$38.95

XL 650 Toolhead
$27.95

Dillon Carbide Pistol Dies (Three-Die Sets)
$63.95

Standard Shipping
$19.99

Grand Total:
$240.04

That may sting a bit now, but keep in mind that eventually that new pistol of his will probably become yours. You might as well prepare in advance so that you'd be ready to reload for it. (BTW, congrats on the new pistol! :supergrin:)

F106 Fan
01-09-2012, 16:20
For about $800 more you could have just bought another press with all the features.

The thing that makes changing calibers a PITA isn't the cost, it's the time it takes to get the machine changed over and operating correctly. It's not a big deal on the 550B but it seems more involved on the 650. As I see it, it's out of the question on the 1050 (although I know some folks do it).

So, it doesn't pay to load 100 rounds and then change calibers. You need to load in bulk - enough rounds that changing calibers is worth the effort. I would think at least a 2 month supply.

Richard

unclebob
01-09-2012, 16:24
For about $800 more you could have just bought another press with all the features.

The thing that makes changing calibers a PITA isn't the cost, it's the time it takes to get the machine changed over and operating correctly. It's not a big deal on the 550B but it seems more involved on the 650. As I see it, it's out of the question on the 1050 (although I know some folks do it).

So, it doesn't pay to load 100 rounds and then change calibers. You need to load in bulk - enough rounds that changing calibers is worth the effort. I would think at least a 2 month supply.

Richard

It is very simple to case calibers on the 650. The way I do it i can change in about 7 to 8 minutes. I have changed just for 20 rounds. It is no harder than changing on a 550.

rpgman
01-09-2012, 17:11
It is very simple to case calibers on the 650. The way I do it i can change in about 7 to 8 minutes. I have changed just for 20 rounds. It is no harder than changing on a 550.

Not a big deal for me either.
Even from small Caliber to large.

ron59
01-09-2012, 17:13
My dad asked me to load some ammo for a new gun he just got.
This is what hurts with the 650!

XL 650 Caliber Conversion Kit
$77.95

Dillon Powder Die
$11.25

Dillon Plate Large Pistol
$38.95

XL 650 Toolhead
$27.95

Dillon Carbide Pistol Dies (Three-Die Sets)
$63.95

Standard Shipping
$19.99

Grand Total:
$240.04

C'mon SGR, I don't think that's a fair breakdown at all, at least the statement "this is what hurts with the 650", as if all of that would be attributed to a caliber change JUST for a 650.


Take off the 63.95, because you would have had to buy dies regardless of what press you were using, even a SS.

Take off the Powder Die, as you'd need that for the 550 or even SDB (and the Hornady has a PTX expander).

You're including the large casefeed plate, but you can use that for multiple calibers, like .45ACP, correct? So any other "large pistol caliber" you ever want to load for, that part is free.

Shipping would be about that once you're getting multiple items, can hardly blame that on the 650.

No... regardless of what press you used, all the above would be necessary (okay, maybe not casefeeder, but if you were loading on a 550 you wouldn't have a casefeeder and would be cussing a blue streak). They certainly aren't "650 expenses" but simply reloading for any press.

The way I see it, your true 650 cost is:
XL 650 Caliber Conversion Kit
$77.95

XL 650 Toolhead
$27.95

That stuff might be more than some other presses, but it's barely $100. I'm sure you have to do SOMETHING with other presses that is going to add some expenditure.

And actually, IMHO you left something out. When I reload for another caliber, I equip a toolhead so I can do a 100% changeout and be done. I'd get a new powder measure and put it on there... no way do I take the time to swap that. It's not super hard, but for the expense, it's not enough for me to justify how much time it saves over 20 or 30 toolhead swaps over a few years.

Sure, you spent $240, but it would have been close to the same if you had a 550, the only difference would have been the casefeed plate, and the fact that the toolhead and caliber conversion are marginally cheaper.

fredj338
01-09-2012, 18:07
Honestly, I have never had a single upside down case fall through my feeder since I have had it, no bumper mods to the bowl. I read a long time ago before buying the XL650 that the main reason for that happening is overloading the case-feeder bowl. I load 300 or 600 round sessions at a time. I lube my brass and place 300 cases at at time in those square disposable Tupperware bowls (they hold approx 330 cases when level)... have then at the ready on the bench, when my case-feeder runs out and just dump them in. Hardly breaks my stride, actually I usually stop at 300 reload the bowl and primer tube... grab a cold drink or have a smoke in between. For rifle 200-225 is the max I like to load in the bowl.
Could be, that's 9mm right? I wonder what that translates to in 45acp, maybe 150? Doesn't happe often, but when it does it locks the slide up pretty good. I may try bracing the bowl a bit against my wall shelf. It's maybe 98%, but when it does go bad, everything screaches to a hault.

Colorado4Wheel
01-09-2012, 20:46
My dad asked me to load some ammo for a new gun he just got.
This is what hurts with the 650!

XL 650 Caliber Conversion Kit
$77.95

Dillon Powder Die
$11.25

Dillon Plate Large Pistol
$38.95

XL 650 Toolhead
$27.95

Dillon Carbide Pistol Dies (Three-Die Sets)
$63.95

Standard Shipping
$19.99

Grand Total:
$240.04


That is why I own a LCT. Caliber conversions are $35 for the Lee dies and then $10 for a toolhead. DONE.

I want to be able to buy guns and shoot them with my reloads with out spending that kind of money to get my press converted. I don't shoot the other guns that much. If I did, I would get the conversion.

pm666
01-09-2012, 20:55
That is why I own a LCT. Caliber conversions are $35 for the Lee dies and then $10 for a toolhead. DONE.

I want to be able to buy guns and shoot them with my reloads with out spending that kind of money to get my press converted. I don't shoot the other guns that much. If I did, I would get the conversion.

Hey C4W, you're the guy that had the priming problem with the Hornady LNL. I thought you went with Dillion?
What made you decide to go with a LCT?

Sorry for the threadjack, I was thinking of gettng into reloading but it seems complicated (even choosing the equipment) and I'm not sure I have the patience. I need 6 stations because I have a fear of over/double charging.

Colorado4Wheel
01-09-2012, 21:08
LCT sits right next to the 650 on my bench. It loads 10mm and .380. Neither caliber gets shot enough to buy a caliber conversion for the 650.

Colorado4Wheel
01-09-2012, 21:11
Sorry for the threadjack, I was thinking of gettng into reloading but it seems complicated (even choosing the equipment) and I'm not sure I have the patience. I need 6 stations because I have a fear of over/double charging.

It's not that complicated. Look in the case before you put the bullet on top. That is what makes the process safe. Everything else is a false security.

ron59
01-09-2012, 23:12
That is why I own a LCT. Caliber conversions are $35 for the Lee dies and then $10 for a toolhead. DONE.

I want to be able to buy guns and shoot them with my reloads with out spending that kind of money to get my press converted. I don't shoot the other guns that much. If I did, I would get the conversion.

Steve... look at post #41. I really think SGR overstated the cost.

YOU didn't include the price of dies when you indicated how much a caliber cost was, and certainly didn't include $20 of shipping? There are other things that are very "questionable" in his total.

SGR.... not hating on you, but I think your post does an injustice to the true cost of caliber conversions. You HAVE to buy dies regardless of the press, pay shipping, etc.

IndyGunFreak
01-10-2012, 09:43
Steve... look at post #41. I really think SGR overstated the cost.

YOU didn't include the price of dies when you indicated how much a caliber cost was, and certainly didn't include $20 of shipping? There are other things that are very "questionable" in his total.

SGR.... not hating on you, but I think your post does an injustice to the true cost of caliber conversions. You HAVE to buy dies regardless of the press, pay shipping, etc.

Agree... some of that stuff is there no matter what press you buy.


LCT sits right next to the 650 on my bench. It loads 10mm and .380. Neither caliber gets shot enough to buy a caliber conversion for the 650.

and I totally agree w/ the above. There's no way I could justify the cost of caliber conversions for the 3 calibers that I don't shoot much of (.38, .357, .45acp) It's a lot easier to swallow $50 for a caliber change, than over $150. I've been getting the itch to get a 550b the last couple of months, but I can't wrap my head around the cost, as it would have to be for the above 3 calibers, and it would take me forever to recoup those costs. I procrastinated over 2yrs on getting a 650 before I finally pulled the trigger. I've decided if I come across a screaming deal on a used one (which is unlikely to happen), I will get a 550b. Otherwise, I will continue to happily load those calibers on my LCT.

IGF

shotgunred
01-10-2012, 19:08
Steve... look at post #41. I really think SGR overstated the cost.

YOU didn't include the price of dies when you indicated how much a caliber cost was, and certainly didn't include $20 of shipping? There are other things that are very "questionable" in his total.

SGR.... not hating on you, but I think your post does an injustice to the true cost of caliber conversions. You HAVE to buy dies regardless of the press, pay shipping, etc.

I am not taking it that way. No problem. I just think the 650 has over price caliber conversions. Which is why I bought an LNL. Well that didn't work out as planed :crying: and I ended up going with the 650 in the end. I just hate paying that much to reload for a gun that won't see 500 rounds a year.:faint: I guess I should be glad I didn't upgrade all the way to a 1050.

Colorado4Wheel
01-10-2012, 19:34
Steve... look at post #41. I really think SGR overstated the cost.

YOU didn't include the price of dies when you indicated how much a caliber cost was, and certainly didn't include $20 of shipping? There are other things that are very "questionable" in his total.

SGR.... not hating on you, but I think your post does an injustice to the true cost of caliber conversions. You HAVE to buy dies regardless of the press, pay shipping, etc.

He may have bought all the good stuff, but in the end 650 conversions are pricey if you only load that caliber a small amount. I can load plenty of ammo on my LCT to feed my "other" pistols. In fact I get a entire press for the cost of two conversions.

F106 Fan
01-10-2012, 20:59
Could be, that's 9mm right? I wonder what that translates to in 45acp, maybe 150? Doesn't happe often, but when it does it locks the slide up pretty good. I may try bracing the bowl a bit against my wall shelf. It's maybe 98%, but when it does go bad, everything screaches to a hault.

I dump between 300 and 400 .45 ACP cases at a time. I don't really keep count.

Today, out of 1000 rounds, I had 2 that were upside down, 2 that had small primers and one that had a .38 super inside and that one really jammed the feeder mechanism. But I learned a new skill in deliberately removing the drop tube and dumping all the cases back in the hopper. Then I can pick the remaining cases out of the mechanism with tweezers. Not a skill I can use to make money but, hey, it works.

On the 1050, the upside down cases don't matter. They won't stay in the shell plate and there will just be an empty space as the reloading continues. The small primers prevent the swage mechanism from entering the case. That, in turn, prevents the handle from going all the way down so it's worth looking at the powder in the shell leaving the charging station.

Richard

fredj338
01-11-2012, 00:30
I will have to see if I can brace the case feeder a bit more & fill it less, but right now I only throw in about 150.

F106 Fan
01-11-2012, 08:48
I will have to see if I can brace the case feeder a bit more & fill it less, but right now I only throw in about 150.

Yesterday, I decided to try the low speed setting on the case feeder. I never did have one of those jams at the funnel above the drop tube. The case feeder was challenged to keep up but the drop tube never did run dry. I doubt that it was ever more than 4 or 5 cases down from full and that only happens when the case feeder gets low.

The case feeder doesn't have to keep up, I will run out of primers fairly soon. Loading only 100 primers on a machine like the 1050 seems silly. I realize there should be some limit to the number of primers on the press but I would like to see some kind of turret scheme so I could load, say, 5 tubes at a time. Since bullets come in 1000s and primers come in 1000s, 10 tubes would be better.

Richard

unclebob
01-11-2012, 09:04
Yesterday, I decided to try the low speed setting on the case feeder. I never did have one of those jams at the funnel above the drop tube. The case feeder was challenged to keep up but the drop tube never did run dry. I doubt that it was ever more than 4 or 5 cases down from full and that only happens when the case feeder gets low.

The case feeder doesn't have to keep up, I will run out of primers fairly soon. Loading only 100 primers on a machine like the 1050 seems silly. I realize there should be some limit to the number of primers on the press but I would like to see some kind of turret scheme so I could load, say, 5 tubes at a time. Since bullets come in 1000s and primers come in 1000s, 10 tubes would be better.

Richard

IRT 650 XL automatic reloading precision - YouTube
It holds 1000 primers.

unclebob
01-11-2012, 09:09
dillon super 1050 irt reloading - YouTube

And here is a 1050.

F106 Fan
01-11-2012, 09:55
Those machines are very cool! I couldn't possibly afford one but they are interesting.

I think the XL650 video is curious. It doesn't seem like there is any powder in the powder measure.

I have seen other setups where Ponsness Warren drive systems have been attached to various presses and the bullet feeder is fairly common. What is more interesting is the primer system. Very clever!

Richard

unclebob
01-11-2012, 10:04
Probably not. They were only doing a video of the operation, and not really loading. The 1050 video you probably could fix yours up like what they have with Dillon primer filler.

unclebob
01-11-2012, 10:20
What I cannot figure out is how do they get there primer system to work on the 650 since the primer assembly goes up and down and it looks like they have a metal tubing going from the press to the primer hopper? But then I sure would hate to set off a primer and it goes all the way up the tube with a 1000 primers setting in the hopper. I have seen what only a 100 primers can do.

DMAR
01-11-2012, 10:48
I've got the LnL, with case feeder. Until I got it adjusted correctly, I cursed the thing. Now, it works pretty good. I don't get any upside down case drops, no issues with cases coming out of the shell plate, and it is very rare that cases will get jammed up in the bowl drop/feed area.

The issues that I do have, especially with taller cases is having the case not feeding fully into the shell plate. The issue is with the case tipping a little bit, limiting the case from going straight into the shell holder. Again, this has much to do about having the feed arm adjusted properly, and also how you work the press handle (speed of movement...). It would be nice if the mechanism was more of a solid linkage, with true index adjustments (none of the manufacturers offer this type of machining on these feeders)... At times I have thought that the case feeder is just not worth the effort, and other times, I love it... Overall, if you are good with tinkering, I think the case feeder on the LnL is a good addition. Once it's dialed in, it works well.

This all being said, I have been tempted to try a Dillon 650, to see if it is truly better in operation. Interesting feedback from a couple of you guys that have had the LnL, and now really like the 650 better. I think if I do it, I'd keep the LnL for one primer size, and the Dillon for the other, as it seems the Dillon is a bit more time consuming/costly for caliber conversions.

Overall, I am pretty happy with the LnL. It is well designed, runs great, and reasonably priced. Caliber/primer size conversions are very easy. I also like the primer system, and how smoothly it indexes, compared to the Dillons.

I do think that when you get into these progressive machines there are always complications, as they are complicated machines. Each manufacturer seems to have their respective issues. It would be nice to have a machine where you set it up, and just pulled the handle, and everything was 100%! I wish I knew someone near me that has a 650 to try it out, and see if it really would be better than the LnL...

Colorado4Wheel
01-11-2012, 11:41
I've got the LnL, with case feeder. Until I got it adjusted correctly, I cursed the thing. Now, it works pretty good. I don't get any upside down case drops, no issues with cases coming out of the shell plate, and it is very rare that cases will get jammed up in the bowl drop/feed area.

The issues that I do have, especially with taller cases is having the case not feeding fully into the shell plate. The issue is with the case tipping a little bit, limiting the case from going straight into the shell holder. Again, this has much to do about having the feed arm adjusted properly, and also how you work the press handle (speed of movement...). It would be nice if the mechanism was more of a solid linkage, with true index adjustments (none of the manufacturers offer this type of machining on these feeders)... At times I have thought that the case feeder is just not worth the effort, and other times, I love it... Overall, if you are good with tinkering, I think the case feeder on the LnL is a good addition. Once it's dialed in, it works well.

This all being said, I have been tempted to try a Dillon 650, to see if it is truly better in operation. Interesting feedback from a couple of you guys that have had the LnL, and now really like the 650 better. I think if I do it, I'd keep the LnL for one primer size, and the Dillon for the other, as it seems the Dillon is a bit more time consuming/costly for caliber conversions.

Overall, I am pretty happy with the LnL. It is well designed, runs great, and reasonably priced. Caliber/primer size conversions are very easy. I also like the primer system, and how smoothly it indexes, compared to the Dillons.

I do think that when you get into these progressive machines there are always complications, as they are complicated machines. Each manufacturer seems to have their respective issues. It would be nice to have a machine where you set it up, and just pulled the handle, and everything was 100%! I wish I knew someone near me that has a 650 to try it out, and see if it really would be better than the LnL...

Tipping is a constant concern with the LnL. Every caliber is different. Total PITA. On the 650 you have a direct adjustment for the slider. The case is held in place by the rim as it gets pushed into the shellplate. It can't tip. That is the main reason the 650 is a superior design. Each caliber has it's own case retainer. Also, the primer setup has more leverage and longer stroke so you can seat the primers deeper with less effort.

fredj338
01-11-2012, 14:15
Wow, I don't think I would want 1000 primers loaded in a machine I am standing next to.

PCJim
01-11-2012, 16:15
Wow, I don't think I would want 1000 primers loaded in a machine I am standing next to.

Neither would I.
Besides, having to stop every 100 primers on the 550 gives me time enough to take a slow sip of some fine single malt....
:whistling: :wow:

unclebob
01-11-2012, 17:01
Wow, I don't think I would want 1000 primers loaded in a machine I am standing next to.

Neither would I, Just showing F106 what he asked for. Like I said before I have seen what 100 primers can do. I would hate to see what 1000 primers can do.
I do like the brass case insert slide, Ring Indexer and the automatic ram oiler.

WiskyT
01-11-2012, 17:57
But then I sure would hate to set off a primer and it goes all the way up the tube with a 1000 primers setting in the hopper. I have seen what only a 100 primers can do.

The whole "new Italian Navy having glass bottom boats" thing comes to mind:whistling: