Purse gun that packs a punch [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Usmcfox
01-13-2012, 17:23
Ok so my girlfriend works night shift as a nurse, and often times has to stop and drop off blood work, tests etc. she expressed to me she would like a pistol to cc. Me being the firearm enthusiast / firm believer in cc took her shopping and me being a glockophile showed her the g26 first she said it was too big. Then the ruler lcp I believe in .380 and she said it was small and asked to see what the ammo looked like. So I showed her and she said " wow that looks like a baby compared to your 10mm. She shoots my g20 just fine so not a huge concern about recoil. But my question does anyone know of a decent semi-auto or hammer less revolver smaller than a g26 that still packs a punch?

WoodenPlank
01-13-2012, 17:34
Ok so my girlfriend works night shift as a nurse, and often times has to stop and drop off blood work, tests etc. she expressed to me she would like a pistol to cc. Me being the firearm enthusiast / firm believer in cc took her shopping and me being a glockophile showed her the g26 first she said it was too big. Then the ruler lcp I believe in .380 and she said it was small and asked to see what the ammo looked like. So I showed her and she said " wow that looks like a baby compared to your 10mm. She shoots my g20 just fine so not a huge concern about recoil. But my question does anyone know of a decent semi-auto or hammer less revolver smaller than a g26 that still packs a punch?

Many medical institutions are prohibited zones for concealed carry, so that's the first thing you might want to keep in mind.

I'd look at a 642 or 442 S&W J-frame, with a respectable quality pocket holster (especially if she's handy enough to sew it in place inside the purse), and loaded with quality JHP. I'm partial to the old FBI load (158gr LSWCHP in +P), but the Short Barrel Gold Dot load from Speer is supposed to be quite nice, as well

Bucky89
01-13-2012, 17:35
Something like the Ruger lc9 would be the natural choice.

When she said the G26 was too big, I assumed she meant the grip/width was too large.

mdsn969
01-13-2012, 17:40
this looks like a fun (expensive) little gun :whistling:

http://heizerfirearms.com/

Caladan
01-13-2012, 17:42
But my question does anyone know of a decent semi-auto or hammer less revolver smaller than a g26 that still packs a punch?


A hammerless revolver such as an S&W 442 will be lighter in weight than a G26, but it will not be smaller. The footprint is shaped differently, but length/width/height will be about the same. And too, the only ones that will pack a substantially bigger punch than a good +p 9mm HP load would be the small .357's, which are rather punishing to shoot.

You might consider the small 9mm and .40 semi-autos, which are substantially smaller than a G26. Good modern hollow-point loads in these two calibers pack plenty of punch for self-defense. The Beretta Nano has just become my favorite of this group, but other very good choices are the Kahr CM9 or the slightly larger CW9, and the Sig P290.

Ahmid
01-13-2012, 17:55
Hands down short barrel light weight 38 special. Either Ruger or S&W.

manonmars
01-13-2012, 17:55
Can't conceal a 26?

Does she have a really small purse?:supergrin:

IndianaMatt
01-13-2012, 17:56
Every girl I've shown my PPK/S to loves it.

http://www.discountgunsales.com/images/P/waltherppks.jpg

Chicks seem to dig them. Good stopping power and small enough to purse.

Gunshine
01-13-2012, 18:24
Kahr PM45

ChicagoZman
01-13-2012, 18:50
J-Frame Airweight (442/642). Loaded with Speer GDHP 135gr +P. Purse or pocket carry in a Galco Pro 158. It's not smaller than a 26, but feels smaller (don't know how that's possible, but it is) and is absolutely reliable.

Usmcfox
01-13-2012, 19:22
Well first thing is the glock 26 was too wide should have said that. The double tap eh just seems like an expensive gimmick. Plus she is a good shot but I've seen her when she gets scared before and I think in a pinch 2 rounds isn't enough. The walther looks good well have to check that out, and the j-frames are nice I have one in my car but she hates shooting it says it's uncomfortable. Thanks for all the ideas you guys are good people.

shockglock
01-13-2012, 19:40
Try a Kahr CM9 or PM9. 6+1 of 9mm in a small but controllable package.

WoodenPlank
01-13-2012, 19:50
Every girl I've shown my PPK/S to loves it.

http://www.discountgunsales.com/images/P/waltherppks.jpg

Chicks seem to dig them. Good stopping power and small enough to purse.

.32 and .380 are not what I would call "good stopping power."

hogship
01-13-2012, 19:55
Every girl I've shown my PPK/S to loves it.

http://www.discountgunsales.com/images/P/waltherppks.jpg

Chicks seem to dig them. Good stopping power and small enough to purse.

You know, I've never really thought of the PPK/S as a "gender specific" firearm, but now that you mention it.......Yeah, women do seem to gravitate to it for whatever reason...........(It unquestionably has very refined style and is small enough to be thought of as "non-intimidating"......women seem to pick up on these things.)
http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL431/781008/1425902/265551285.jpg
I've heard some people complain of the recoil because of the fixed barrel, but to my way of thinking, it's not bad at all. It's all steel, and the 380 does not have that much recoil in the Walther frame. I suspect with some who comment in the negative, it's more anticipation than real sensitivity......


ooc

hogship
01-13-2012, 20:00
.32 and .380 are not what I would call "good stopping power."

Certainly, there are more powerful cartridges, but I'd say "adequate" would be a satisfactory description of the performance that can be had from the 380acp.

ooc

WoodenPlank
01-13-2012, 20:12
Certainly, there are more powerful cartridges, but I'd say "adequate" would be a satisfactory description of the performance that can be had from the 380acp.

ooc

I've always thought of anything under .38 Special +P as a "dump the mag and run like hell" caliber. I've never seen either as adequate for a primary defense gun, unless situation or physical ability prevent use of something heavier. Depending on the skill of the shooter, even .38 +P can fall in that category. However, I'd have no problem carrying .32 or .380 in a backup gun.

relayman
01-13-2012, 20:22
Try a Kahr CM9 or PM9. 6+1 of 9mm in a small but controllable package. I have a CM9 . Very concealable . Completely reliable . Great gun .

LSglock89
01-13-2012, 20:44
Try a Kahr CM9 or PM9. 6+1 of 9mm in a small but controllable package.

x2.....

arushus
01-13-2012, 21:16
I was gonna suggest kahr cm9, ruger lc9, or diamondback db9...

mr00jimbo
01-13-2012, 22:27
What about the LC9?

Thamby
01-13-2012, 22:57
I like the Ruger LC9, and the Taurus Slim.

Nakanokalronin
01-13-2012, 23:05
Weather she can take recoil or not, a snub is not a "pick-up and instantly learn how to shoot it" type of gun. I like shooting the S&W 500 I rent at my LGS, high powered +P 45LC is fun out of my Ruger Redhawk and I can shoot .357s all day out of my 6" GP100 or 2 1/4" SP101. I however dislike shooting a lightweight aluminum framed snub with +P .38spl rounds.

IMO, go to a local range that rents guns and let her decide. Don't let her buy a defensive firearm based solely on looks.

MinnesnowtaWild
01-13-2012, 23:43
Get her a LC9...and if she doesn't like that trigger get her a Taurus 709 slim since it has a simple, light SA trigger.

faawrenchbndr
01-14-2012, 05:12
A hammerless revolver is the ONLY choice for a purse gun.

M&P15T
01-14-2012, 05:21
Snubbys are terrible, especially for smaller, lighter people. Even in .38SPL, the recoil is awful. .357MAG? Just stupid uncomfortable. Autos absorb much of the recoil energy to cycle the action, so they're much more comfortable to shoot. Most autos will also have better sights than snubbys to boot.

I was at the range a few weeks ago, and there was a husband and wife out shooting their snubby. The wife was having less fun than a root canal, and even the husband could barely hit the broadside of a barn at 10 yards.

I cannot understand why anyone suggests sunbbys for new shooters/CCWers, when there are so many better autos out there. If we want more people to get into shooting, they need to have better suggestions from experienced shooters. They can't go to the range the first time with their new snubby they bought on some idiot's suggestion, and find the experience horrible. The experience will turn them off to shooting, and they won't continue shooting and recruiting more people into shooting.

For Christ's sake, can we please stop suggesting awful firearms to new shooters?

ZekerMan
01-14-2012, 05:22
Ruger LCR with .38+P loaded. Great trigger, light and good ergonomics.

M&P15T
01-14-2012, 05:31
Ruger LCR with .38+P loaded. Great trigger, light and good ergonomics.

Oh good God. Nevermind, I tried.

Bren
01-14-2012, 05:38
Ok so my girlfriend works night shift as a nurse, and often times has to stop and drop off blood work, tests etc. she expressed to me she would like a pistol to cc. Me being the firearm enthusiast / firm believer in cc took her shopping and me being a glockophile showed her the g26 first she said it was too big. Then the ruler lcp I believe in .380 and she said it was small and asked to see what the ammo looked like. So I showed her and she said " wow that looks like a baby compared to your 10mm. She shoots my g20 just fine so not a huge concern about recoil. But my question does anyone know of a decent semi-auto or hammer less revolver smaller than a g26 that still packs a punch?

A j frame .357?

M&P15T
01-14-2012, 05:41
Please, please, please keep in mind what the OP is asking. He has a relatively new shooter, someone that will be new to CCWing, that has had good experiences in the past with autos, who needs good suggestions for their first CCW piece.

If she is going to enjoy shooting, and enjoy it so much she wants to go to the range and shoot often, so that she gets proficient with her CCW piece, we need to give suggestions on a pistol that she will enjoy shooting. Not some nasty recoiling, horrible sight and long trigger pull having, difficult to be accurate with, snubby.

This woman needs to enjoy shooting, she needs to get the satisfaction of actually being able to hit her target with her pistol. If she doesn't enjoy shooting her chosen pistol, she will shoot less and less until she quits, and we will have lost the opportunity to recruit a new shooter into the fold, and she herself will not bring other people to shooting.

Why experienced, 200lb males, that have a lifetime of shooting all different sorts of pistols, that have made the decision to accept the poor shooting characterisics of snubbys because they find them easier to carry, feel it's the right suggestion for new shooters, is beyond me.

M&P15T
01-14-2012, 05:47
A j frame .357?

Christ, I give in. Sure, a .357MAG snubby is the answer. Hell, might as well get her a .460 Alaskan with a 4" barrel, stuff it in her purse when she's not looking.

I have come to a conclusion, based on this thread. If you want advice in choosing a pistol for a new shooter and CCWer, especialy a female, the absolute worst people to ask advice from are experienced male shoters.

Holy crap, I thought I was stupid about women.

There's two basic rules here.

1. If momma ain't happy, no one's gonna be happy.
2. A snubby ain't gonna make momma happy.

hogship
01-14-2012, 05:51
I cannot understand why anyone suggests sunbbys for new shooters/CCWers, when there are so many better autos out there.

Actually, a snub nose revolver is a very good suggestion for certain people. There are a lot of people who want to arm themselves, but refuse to be proficient.....they might shoot it once, or not at all. This is just the cold reality, and we MUST accept it, whether or not we think things should be done differently. Personally, I'd rather these people be armed, and can confront evil with self dignity.......rather than beg for mercy.

Since anyone with half a brain can learn how to operate a snub in about two minutes, it is a very good suggestion for these people. If they ever have to use it, they'll be able to defend themselves.......and, most everyone will be able to shoot one well enough to stop a threat, if not make nice looking groups on paper.

There are some very mild shooting standard 38spl loadings that are just right for these people.

Otherwise, I agree with everything you say......and, my personal choices for ccw are automatics.

ooc

http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL431/781008/1401653/195955280.jpg

purrrfect 10
01-14-2012, 06:00
I was Looking for the wife also I was thinking S&W 629 44 magnum 6"barrel that way she can use it for a walking stick when we are hiking too:rofl:

Just kidding LC 9 Ruger 9mm w/ lazer is a fine looking pistol, she shoots my G20 10mm and does well with it but we are looking small for her purse. The J frame is nice and all but Semi I think is the way to go. I know many will argue the 9mm and stopping power. Again in a bad situation do not shoot once and see if that works. Keep firing until assailant is on the ground.

Office: Why did you shoot him ten times

answer: I couldn't get another mag in before he hit the ground.

ubimow
01-14-2012, 06:04
try a kahr cm9 or pm9. 6+1 of 9mm in a small but controllable package.

this!!!!

purrrfect 10
01-14-2012, 06:05
Christ,
There's two basic rules here.

1. If momma ain't happy, no one's gonna be happy.
2. A snubby ain't gonna make momma happy.

I read all your RANTS but your are not giving any suggestion so who the hell is calling the kettle Black? :dunno:

faawrenchbndr
01-14-2012, 06:16
Christ, I give in. Sure, a .357MAG snubby is the answer. Hell, might as well get her a .460 Alaskan with a 4" barrel, stuff it in her purse when she's not looking.

I have come to a conclusion, based on this thread. If you want advice in choosing a pistol for a new shooter and CCWer, especialy a female, the absolute worst people to ask advice from are experienced male shoters.

Holy crap, I thought I was stupid about women.

There's two basic rules here.

1. If momma ain't happy, no one's gonna be happy.
2. A snubby ain't gonna make momma happy.


Seems you know very little about:
-Women
-Purse gun operation
-New shooter orientation
-Revolver vs semi-auto reliability
-Revolver ease of use
-Semi-auto slide bind in confined spaces
-Muzzle contact out of battery malfunction


EVERYONE is different! Everyone has different needs, wants & expectations!
However, from the oustide looking in, a revolver is inherently more
reliable than a semi-auto. Easier to load, no safety to forget.

Do some research, talk to some experts, talk to some firearms
instructors about this topic. $100 says 95% of them recommend
a hammerless revolver for a new female shooter whom wishes to
carry "off body"

I've also comt to a conclusion,.....you know VERY little.

M&P15T
01-14-2012, 06:17
Actually, a snub nose revolver is a very good suggestion for certain people. There are a lot of people who want to arm themselves, but refuse to be proficient.....they might shoot it once, or not at all. This is just the cold reality, and we MUST accept it, whether or not we think things should be done differently. Personally, I'd rather these people be armed, and can confront evil with self dignity.......rather than beg for mercy.

Since anyone with half a brain can learn how to operate a snub in about two minutes, it is a very good suggestion for these people. If they ever have to use it, they'll be able to defend themselves.......and, most everyone will be able to shoot one well enough to stop a threat, if not make nice looking groups on paper.

There are some very mild shooting standard 38spl loadings that are just right for these people.

Otherwise, I agree with everything you say......and, my personal choices for ccw are automatics.

ooc

http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL431/781008/1401653/195955280.jpg

Right:

And if someone is going to go shooting once a year, there's no way the best suggestion is a nasty recoiling pistol with terrible sights and a horrible, long trigger.

A 9MM LCP, a G19GEN4, and so many other pistols are much, much easier to to shoot accurately, and especially so when training is minimal. But if the main focus is to get a new person into shooting and CCWing, and keep them for a life time, I can think of nothing worse to suggest than a snub nosed .38/.357

faawrenchbndr
01-14-2012, 06:20
Right:

And if someone is going to go shooting once a year, there's no way the best suggestion is a nasty recoiling pistol with terrible sights and a horrible, long trigger.





If someone ONLY shoots once a year, he/she will not fair very well
in s life or death situation.

Gunshine
01-14-2012, 06:23
Snubbys are terrible, especially for smaller, lighter people. Even in .38SPL, the recoil is awful. .357MAG? Just stupid uncomfortable. Autos absorb much of the recoil energy to cycle the action, so they're much more comfortable to shoot. Most autos will also have better sights than snubbys to boot.

I was at the range a few weeks ago, and there was a husband and wife out shooting their snubby. The wife was having less fun than a root canal, and even the husband could barely hit the broadside of a barn at 10 yards.

I cannot understand why anyone suggests sunbbys for new shooters/CCWers, when there are so many better autos out there. If we want more people to get into shooting, they need to have better suggestions from experienced shooters. They can't go to the range the first time with their new snubby they bought on some idiot's suggestion, and find the experience horrible. The experience will turn them off to shooting, and they won't continue shooting and recruiting more people into shooting.

For Christ's sake, can we please stop suggesting awful firearms to new shooters?

I no longer own revolvers but I still like them. It seems the OP and the intended owner both have some experience. If you would like to suggest that the recoil of a small revolver in a large caliber might be a bit much that's fine. But I'm pretty sure referring to folks as idiots isn't helpful

oldsoldier
01-14-2012, 06:26
Take her to a good gun shop with a large inventory and hopefully with a range and rental guns and let her check some guns out. I'm constantly surprised at the gun an individual women may choose. Often it is not what I would choose but they usually do fine with their chosen pistol. Some women have a problem with racking the slides on semi autos and some have problems with a hammerless revolver. The trigger pull is too heavy for them. I watched a CCW qualification the other day and the women had a XD 9MM, Ruger LCP, and S&W Lady Smith. Three women of different size and age and they all had a different gun. I say let her choose because you are wasting your time picking out a gun for her. Would you let someone decide what gun you should carry?

M&P15T
01-14-2012, 06:27
Seems you know very little about:
-Women
-Purse gun operation
-New shooter orientation
-Revolver vs semi-auto reliability
-Revolver ease of use
-Semi-auto slide bind in confined spaces
-Muzzle contact out of battery malfunction


EVERYONE is different! Everyone has different needs, wants & expectations!
However, from the oustide looking in, a revolver is inherently more
reliable than a semi-auto. Easier to load, no safety to forget.

Do some research, talk to some experts, talk to some firearms
instructors about this topic. $100 says 95% of them recommend
a hammerless revolver for a new female shooter whom wishes to
carry "off body"

I've also comt to a conclusion,.....you know VERY little.

Nope, you're wrong. You could not possibly be more wrong. Firearms instructors are absolutely, positively the wrong people to ask on this topic....which is why about the only thing you are correct about in your post, is that 95% of firearms instructors would recommend a snubby for a new female shooter/ccwer.

I have taught several females to shoot. I have taken females to the range with absolute 0 experience, never even held a firearm, much less shot one. I've had them in the black within a half an hour. And I'm 100% sure that the worst person to ask for suggestions on a pistol are experienced male shooters. 99% of them just push into a new female shooters hands what they think is the right answer.

"Here's a .38/.357 snubby, try it out."

BOOM-miss....BOOM...miss......BOOM......miss.

"Ewww, I don't like that, it hurts to shoot. I'm done."

Yeah, that's the right idea.:upeyes::upeyes:

writwing
01-14-2012, 06:30
Every girl I've shown my PPK/S to loves it.

http://www.discountgunsales.com/images/P/waltherppks.jpg

Chicks seem to dig them. Good stopping power and small enough to purse.

Terrible trigger and a lot of recoil for the caliber.

Go LCR. Light weight, great trigger, reliable. They even have'm with pink grips.

Dogbite
01-14-2012, 06:34
Snubbys are terrible, especially for smaller, lighter people. Even in .38SPL, the recoil is awful. .357MAG? Just stupid uncomfortable. Autos absorb much of the recoil energy to cycle the action, so they're much more comfortable to shoot. Most autos will also have better sights than snubbys to boot.

I was at the range a few weeks ago, and there was a husband and wife out shooting their snubby. The wife was having less fun than a root canal, and even the husband could barely hit the broadside of a barn at 10 yards.

I cannot understand why anyone suggests sunbbys for new shooters/CCWers, when there are so many better autos out there. If we want more people to get into shooting, they need to have better suggestions from experienced shooters. They can't go to the range the first time with their new snubby they bought on some idiot's suggestion, and find the experience horrible. The experience will turn them off to shooting, and they won't continue shooting and recruiting more people into shooting.

For Christ's sake, can we please stop suggesting awful firearms to new shooters?

This is a very good point, but sometimes (and you can never tell until a woman grabs the slide) she cant even pull the slide back a little bit. Even with me telling her to push with one hand while pulling with the other. I do try to show them a 4 inch model 10 or something then though..

purrrfect 10
01-14-2012, 06:36
Nope, you're wrong. You could not possibly be more wrong. Firearms instructors are absolutely, positively the wrong people to ask on this topic....which is why about the only thing you are correct about in your post, is that 95% of firearms instructors would recommend a snubby for a new female shooter/ccwer.

I have taught several females to shoot, and I'm 100% sure that the worst person to ask for suggestions on a pistol are experienced male shooters. 99% of them just push into a new female shooters hands what they think is the right answer.

"Here's a .38/.357 snubby, try it out."

BOOM-miss....BOOM...miss......BOOM......miss.

"Ewww, I don't like that, it hurts to shoot. I'm done."

Yeah, that's the right idea.:upeyes::upeyes:

You seem to keep going on and on like you know everything, so what do you suggest. You are not still mad because you lost your first game in the playoffs are you :rofl:

hogship
01-14-2012, 06:40
If someone ONLY shoots once a year, he/she will not fair very well
in s life or death situation.

This is where you are wrong, faawrenchbender.

Some inexperienced firearms owners will defend themselves with wisdom and authority, who never shoot their firearms. Some of them will fair better than others who shoot regularly and have all the "training" and credentials. To make such a "blanket statement", is not very much in tune with humanity.

.....but, to be fair, your statement is very true for a much higher percentage of non-shooters, than those who shoot regularly.

Training and practice is certainly helpful.......but, when it comes right down to the nitty gritty.......it's the character of the individual that makes the difference between doing the necessary under extreme pressure......and failure.

ooc

TN.Frank
01-14-2012, 06:48
Picked up the latest issue of Gun World magazine because it had an article on the S&W M638 in it in 327 Federal Mag., got it more to read about the ctg. then about the gun since these little S&W snubs are uber expensive. Anyway, this little ctg. is a real power house that easily beats out the +P 38 Spl while having less recoil then the 357Mag. IIRC from the 1 7/8" bbl they were getting over 1300 fps and 391 ft/lbs from a 100gr JHP bullet. Bud's has the Taurus snubs at a close out price of $260 bucks and you can get a Charter Arms or Ruger in this great little ctg. too. Also a big plus is that you get 6 shots instead of just the 5 that you'd get in a 38 or 357. Give it a close look and I'm sure you'll like what you see.

grmnracing
01-14-2012, 06:49
From what I have been hearing the .380 round is adequate for defense. The LCP loaded with good quality hollow points should get the job done. For a purse gun I believe the LCP is a great contender. As small as the gun is I'm sure a women could conceal it on the body even wearing fitted clothing. J-frames are nice but you have to consider the width of the cylinder.


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M&P15T
01-14-2012, 07:14
You seem to keep going on and on like you know everything, so what do you suggest. You are not still mad because you lost your first game in the playoffs are you :rofl:

The Lions?? It's been years since they did as well as this year, so I'm actually quite happy.

I have to keep this short, because I'm at work and have a very busy day.

I apologise for calling (collectively) males idiots when discussing firearms needs for women, but it's the truth.

I sell kitchens and bathrooms. I'm a kitchen design that sells complete jobs incuding all materials and labor. You can imagine the gender make-up of the clients I work with, who ends up being the decision makers. I have 17 years of professional experience (frustration) in working with women in making very large and detailed purchase decisions. I have learned through years of trials and tribulation, how to work with females of all ages, races, socio and economic backgrounds. I have developed and refined techniques on how to sell females, and it has taken years to get to where I'm at.

The best idea for getting females into shooting is to not try and tell them what they should like, want, use or buy. This is a losing proposition from the get-go....what we in my business call a "non-starter". Spread out before them a selection of different pistols, including autos, revolvers, anything you have or can get your hands on. Lay them out on a table un-loaded, and let them load and fire each one to experience how they are different.

Then let THEM choose. If 10% were to voluntarily choose snubbys, I would be shocked. We as men have to stop taking our experiences, our wants and needs, our likes, and expecting women to make the same decisions.

Want to know how bad we men are doing with females and shooting? Look around here....look in this thread. Not a lot of replies/perspectives from the female point of view, are there? Nope, just a bunch of us male idiots giving each other idiotic advice.

Remember how I said I was busy today? I've been working with a 60-something balding, over-weight, post-menopausal woman, whose husband I have not even met, on her 45K bathroom project, and I'm closing it today. You have know idea how much fun it has been working with her.:supergrin:

TN.Frank
01-14-2012, 07:20
Then let THEM choose. If 10% were to chose snubbys, I would be shocked. We as men have to stop attempting to take our experiences, our wants and needs, our likes, and expecting women to make the same decisions.


Hey, now that sounds like an idea. My wife loves revolvers and totally hates semi-autos. If I were to get her a Ruger LCP she'd not carry it and would be reluctant to shoot it since she's just not comfortable with a semi.
Now, knowing that she likes revolvers I bookmarked a few the other day for her to look at. The first one was a Taurus snub with a 2" bbl. She didn't like the shorter barrel even though I thought she would. When I showed her the Ruger with the 3 1/16" bbl. she liked it because it had a longer barrel, to figure. Best thing is take her to a gun shop, let her get a feel for a few different guns and explain the good and bad points of each. Then, let her pick so she'll feel like she's been part of the process and that way she'll be happy with the choice.

P.S.
Still think a revolver would be best and still think the 327 Federal Mag beats out the 38spl +P and 357Mag in a small revolver. :tongueout:

M&P15T
01-14-2012, 07:31
Hey, now that sounds like an idea. My wife loves revolvers and totally hates semi-autos. If I were to get her a Ruger LCP she'd not carry it and would be reluctant to shoot it since she's just not comfortable with a semi.
Now, knowing that she likes revolvers I bookmarked a few the other day for her to look at. The first one was a Taurus snub with a 2" bbl. She didn't like the shorter barrel even though I thought she would. When I showed her the Ruger with the 3 1/16" bbl. she liked it because it had a longer barrel, to figure. Best thing is take her to a gun shop, let her get a feel for a few different guns and explain the good and bad points of each. Then, let her pick so she'll feel like she's been part of the process and that way she'll be happy with the choice.

P.S.
Still think a revolver would be best and still think the 327 Federal Mag beats out the 38spl +P and 357Mag in a small revolver. :tongueout:

You're (awesome) wife liking revolvers is great, but most females won't enjoy a .357MAG/hot .38SPCL loaded snubby. I'm glad to hear you've gotten your wife into shooting.

I'd like to add, that it's actually better to not tell them anything (good & bad points) other than how to load and shoot each pistol, let them ask the questions.

Did you start her off with the 4" compensated Ruger .454 Alaskan?:rofl:

Gunshine
01-14-2012, 07:39
It's obvious that 15T feels very strongly about the snubby thing. A simple try before you buy might be a
good idea OP.

knoxrocks222
01-14-2012, 07:47
this looks like a fun (expensive) little gun :whistling:

http://heizerfirearms.com/


AHHH THE TACTICAL BULL MOOSE HAS RETURNED!!!!!:rofl:

drew4691
01-14-2012, 07:50
I'd vote PM9, it is smaller than the 26 but still has good sites before you get into the mouse guns with crappy sites.

purrrfect 10
01-14-2012, 08:36
The Lions?? It's been years since they did as well as this year, so I'm actually quite happy.

Want to know how bad we men are doing with females and shooting? Look around here....look in this thread. Not a lot of replies/perspectives from the female point of view, are there? Nope, just a bunch of us male idiots giving each other idiotic advice.


" It's been years since they did as well as this year, so I'm actually quite happy."

You would be, I'm really surprised your wife let you watch the game.

As to your last message to all us fellow Glockers? I think the Oprah forum is better suited for you, I would think there is so much more you could relate to.
There is so much experience among the shooter here, I tip my hat. I didn't see where anyone was saying a must buy but merly giving suggestion perhaps from what their experience and wife liked, J frame can be the perfect weapon, snubby or semi, boils down to shoot ability and feel for every one.
Well I need to get back to work..........On my new reload bench.

G31
01-14-2012, 08:38
The .380 Auto will certainly be adequate for a defensive role, no question about it. However, it is not necessarily the ideal solution, due to less penetration and the ability to deflect easier than something 9mm or better. I would not count on the .380 to be very effective after penetrating a hard barrier, but for a one-on-one encounter at arms-length or so, it will work fine.

Having said that, consider the purpose for this weapon. She needs a small, lightweight firearm that will not be easily detected at work, and that can get her out of a pinch. I would choose the G26 over anything else, but she doesn't think it will work, so no-go on that. Maybe a Kahr PM9 would work, though I would prefer the metal-framed MK9 (less recoil, more comfort, but not my decision). Before selecting ANYTHING, I would do a search for comparison pictures to a G26. Many thinner guns are actually taller and longer than the Glock, making the thickness the least of her concealment problems in a purse.

You seem to keep going on and on like you know everything, so what do you suggest. You are not still mad because you lost your first game in the playoffs are you :rofl:

I don't automatically assume that someone feels they know everything, just because they make an accurate comment about one aspect of a subject. A person can know that a small, lightweight revolver in a decent caliber has significantly more recoil than a semi-auto in a similar caliber. You don't have to be a certified expert in a field to know what you're talking about.

I tend to agree with his idea. I had an all-steel Taurus 85 .38 spl revolver that kicked more than my Glock 20 does when shooting 200 gr. XTPs @ 1200 fps. This was the case with all rounds, but more so with 158 gr. loads. I've never fired a snub revolver in .38 or better that wasn't punishing after a box or two. Of course, there are some that are much worse (S&W .357 snub comes to mind). Additionally, the trigger on every revolver I've ever fired is way too long and/or heavy for most people to enjoy. There are plenty of DAO autos that have similar triggers, and people avoid them like the plague, but will recommend a revolver in a heart beat...I don't really get it.

On the flip side, a revolver is the only sensible choice for someone with little-to-no mechanical ability, a handicap or strength issue, or no desire to become proficient. As we all know, many gun owners fall into this category. I do feel it is a fallacy to assume that every new shooter, particularly a female, is not able to understand the aspects of semi-auto operation. A person who can drive a car - something that is much more complex than operating any firearm - or go to work everyday and use critical thinking skills can figure out how to rack a slide and keep their thumbs out of the way. It's easy! As the OP said, his GF shoots his Glock just fine. My wife prefers autos, but gets harassed by every gun shop employee or "gun expert" over 40 years old to buy a snubby .38. I disagree 100%, and feel that this is an old-school, very outdated method of training. You see less and less of this as the old timers disappear, and the younger folks take over.

4 glocks
01-14-2012, 08:39
When I met my GF she had just bought a S&W 442 and put CT grips on it.
One of our first dates was shooting and she loves to do it. The only gun she ever shot was a 22 rifle.
She mastered the 442 very fast. If I would have told her she can not shoot a snub maybe the results would have been different.
Now she has shot a Glock 26, Ruger service six .357, LCP, Rem. 870 and 1100, Colt AR15, Ruger mini 14.

I will say she is a natural shooter and sometimes her groups are smaller that mine. I would say let her make the choice of the gun and support her choice.
I would look at Ruger LC9, LCP, or S&W 642/442.

manonmars
01-14-2012, 09:12
I have sponsored 4 classes for women/seniors in the recent past.

Many women were new to shooting, and had just bought a new 38 snubbie/airweight because the gun shop recommended it.

Believe me, women don't like airweights...or snubbies! (I don't even like them).

I was approached later by 2 & ask if I could help them sell their new gun......(38's).

Then, a month ago, I took a 25 year old girl who weighs about 120# to the range. She had shot a g-19 twice (2 shots).

I brought my g-19, g-23, g26, and g-30. I also brought a S&W model 19, and a Taurus Tracker 357 (4"), along with a Ruger 22 & Taurus 22.

She ended up shooting and liking the S&W the best!

Go figger'.

Let THEM make the decision!!!

M&P15T
01-14-2012, 09:38
" It's been years since they did as well as this year, so I'm actually quite happy."

You would be, I'm really surprised your wife let you watch the game.

As to your last message to all us fellow Glockers? I think the Oprah forum is better suited for you, I would think there is so much more you could relate to.
There is so much experience among the shooter here, I tip my hat. I didn't see where anyone was saying a must buy but merly giving suggestion perhaps from what their experience and wife liked, J frame can be the perfect weapon, snubby or semi, boils down to shoot ability and feel for every one.
Well I need to get back to work..........On my new reload bench.

I think you're poking fun at me, but your spelling, punctuation and grammar is making it difficult to be sure. Something about the Lions....something about Oprah.....the rest is gibberish.

ithaca_deerslayer
01-14-2012, 09:39
A hammerless revolver such as an S&W 442 will be lighter in weight than a G26, but it will not be smaller. The footprint is shaped differently, but length/width/height will be about the same. And too, the only ones that will pack a substantially bigger punch than a good +p 9mm HP load would be the small .357's, which are rather punishing to shoot.

You might consider the small 9mm and .40 semi-autos, which are substantially smaller than a G26. Good modern hollow-point loads in these two calibers pack plenty of punch for self-defense. The Beretta Nano has just become my favorite of this group, but other very good choices are the Kahr CM9 or the slightly larger CW9, and the Sig P290.

The 642 is a lot smaller than the G26. But not as small as a LCP, of course. For similarity in size, the 642 should be compared to the Kahr PM9.

MLittle
01-14-2012, 09:41
I know the G26 isn't a "tiny" pistol, but to me it really does feel very similar to a J frame in the pocket and I have both. There are a lot of single stack 9mm's out there, but I'll take my Glock which has never had a failure of any kind over any of them. And I favor it over my J frame due to twice the capacity. I think the G26 would make a PERFECT purse pistol with flat 10 round mag.

M&P15T
01-14-2012, 09:45
I had an all-steel Taurus 85 .38 spl revolver that kicked more than my Glock 20 does when shooting 200 gr. XTPs @ 1200 fps. This was the case with all rounds, but more so with 158 gr. loads. I've never fired a snub revolver in .38 or better that wasn't punishing after a box or two. Of course, there are some that are much worse (S&W .357 snub comes to mind). Additionally, the trigger on every revolver I've ever fired is way too long and/or heavy for most people to enjoy. There are plenty of DAO autos that have similar triggers, and people avoid them like the plague, but will recommend a revolver in a heart beat...I don't really get it.

My wife prefers autos, but gets harassed by every gun shop employee or "gun expert" over 40 years old to buy a snubby .38. I disagree 100%, and feel that this is an old-school, very outdated method of training. You see less and less of this as the old timers disappear, and the younger folks take over.

I think it's the "old timers" and their younger followers that keep perpetuating the idea that a snubby is the best "for wimmin folk". Once someone posts about how "firearms experts" or "firearms trainers" recommend one thing or another, I tune them out. If you're on this forum, been shooting for a while, and you can't figure out what works for you from your own experiences, you're too lost to help.

barth
01-14-2012, 09:48
She shoots my g20 just fine so not a huge concern about recoil. But my question does anyone know of a decent semi-auto or hammer less revolver smaller than a g26 that still packs a punch?

My S&W 342 ti titanium 38 weights 11.1 oz empty and 13.5 loaded
with Speer GDHP 135 gr 38+P Short Barrel ammo.
FBI Protocol test results from a 2" snub nose:
http://www.speer-ammo.com/products/bullet_tests.htm

This little monster is a dream to carry, sweet glassy trigger,
shoots POA at close range and is 100% reliable.
It does kick like a 357 Mag, but if she can handle a G20?
With a XS Big Dot on the nose - SD is pull, point, squeeze.
https://www.t-mobilepictures.com/myalbum/photos/photo10/40/6d/2f91bc77e62d__1310338634000.jpeg

TN.Frank
01-14-2012, 09:49
You're (awesome) wife liking revolvers is great, but most females won't enjoy a .357MAG/hot .38SPCL loaded snubby. I'm glad to hear you've gotten your wife into shooting.

Did you start her off with the 4" compensated Ruger .454 Alaskan?:rofl:

She likes revolvers because she can easily see if they're loaded or not. Her ex was a real jerk and scared her with a little 25acp that he had. He took the mag out and then proceeded to point it at her then he pointed it at his head and told her "It's not loaded" at which point he pointed it at the ground and pulled the trigger and it went off. Guess the dumb***** didn't remember about the one in the chamber Anyway, after that she's just not comfortable with small semi-autos and would rather have a revolver.
I took her shooting for the first time back in the mid-'80's while we were dating. I wanted her to understand what a gun was and was not and since I owned them I wanted her to know how to use them and be safe with them.
At the time I had an EMF Dakota SAA copy in 357Mag, 5.5" bbl, color case frame. We went out to the desert and I loaded it up with some 38spl loads and taught her how to shoot. She pretty much took to it like a duck to water.
She doesn't make firearms a priority like I do though, she really doesn't care if she has one or not. I, on the other hand, just don't feel right without one. Still, I'd like to pick up a decent little revolver and let her get use to shooting it enough for her to take her CCW so she can carry if she'd like.

Lew-G17
01-14-2012, 09:49
Kahr P9, or PM9 is smaller than a G26 and is the same caliber.

ithaca_deerslayer
01-14-2012, 09:51
You know, I've never really thought of the PPK/S as a "gender specific" firearm, but now that you mention it.......Yeah, women do seem to gravitate to it for whatever reason...........(It unquestionably has very refined style and is small enough to be thought of as "non-intimidating"......women seem to pick up on these things.)
http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL431/781008/1425902/265551285.jpg
I've heard some people complain of the recoil because of the fixed barrel, but to my way of thinking, it's not bad at all. It's all steel, and the 380 does not have that much recoil in the Walther frame. I suspect with some who comment in the negative, it's more anticipation than real sensitivity......


ooc

The PPK does have snappy recoil, and the potential for slide bite, and is heavy for it's size. It also is traditional double action, which some prefer and some do not, so the user has to consider if they want that.

Because the PPK/S has the longer grip, that version might reduce the recoil a little.

Personally, I prefer the lighter polymer LCP that is double action only, no safety, a little smaller than the PPK, and has about the same or less recoil.

faawrenchbndr
01-14-2012, 09:54
I think it's the "old timers" and their younger followers that keep perpetuating the idea that a snubby is the best "for wimmin folk". Once someone posts about how "firearms experts" or "firearms trainers" recommend one thing or another, I tune them out. If you're on this forum, been shooting for a while, and you can't figure out what works for you from your own experiences, you're too lost to help.


Here's my thoughts as to why a revolver like a j-frame is a great purse gun.
A woman can actually fire it from inside a pruse, and get off more than one shot.
Doubt this would be possible with a semi auto like the G26.

Now, I will agree, for "on body" carry there are other choices. Also,
a .357 Mag j-frame would not be a recommendation of mine for most
women. .38 Special,....yes, very capable caliber for defense.

ithaca_deerslayer
01-14-2012, 09:55
Snubbys are terrible, especially for smaller, lighter people. Even in .38SPL, the recoil is awful. .357MAG? Just stupid uncomfortable. Autos absorb much of the recoil energy to cycle the action, so they're much more comfortable to shoot. Most autos will also have better sights than snubbys to boot.

I was at the range a few weeks ago, and there was a husband and wife out shooting their snubby. The wife was having less fun than a root canal, and even the husband could barely hit the broadside of a barn at 10 yards.

I cannot understand why anyone suggests sunbbys for new shooters/CCWers, when there are so many better autos out there. If we want more people to get into shooting, they need to have better suggestions from experienced shooters. They can't go to the range the first time with their new snubby they bought on some idiot's suggestion, and find the experience horrible. The experience will turn them off to shooting, and they won't continue shooting and recruiting more people into shooting.

For Christ's sake, can we please stop suggesting awful firearms to new shooters?
My wife has a snubbie and loves it, and can shoot it more accurately than most guys shoot their autos. You raise good issues, but need to balance with the other qualities of the snubbie too.

We teach new women shooters, and work them through a progression of guns. For a small carry gun, the snubbie becomes a viable option for them. The recoil with standard loads is typically no worse than the small .380. The reliabilty is superb, so is concealibilty. You can easily pick from a variaty of grips to best fit the user. Operation is straight forward and easy to understand. The gun is as accurrate as any other, and learning to shoot it well furthers overall shooting skills.

But these issues need to be understood in overall context of the many choices in guns out there.

M&P15T
01-14-2012, 09:57
My S&W 342 ti titanium 38 weighs 11.1 oz empty and 13.5 loaded with Speer GDHP 135 gr 38+P Short Barrel ammo.

This little monster is a.........It does kick like a 357 Mag.

:rofl::rofl:

M&P15T
01-14-2012, 10:01
Here's my thoughts as to why a revolver like a j-frame is a great purse gun.
A woman can actually fire it from inside a pruse, and get off more than one shot.
Doubt this would be possible with a semi auto like the G26.

Now, I will agree, for "on body" carry there are other choices. Also,
a .357 Mag j-frame would not be a recommendation of mine for most
women. .38 Special,....yes, very capable caliber for defense.

This is the same old b.s. that "firearms trainers" have been bloviating on for 50 years.....them wimmin folk are gonna shoot from inside their purse.:rofl:

Yep, that's gonna work.....reaaaal well.:rofl:

If a new shooter is offered many different pistols to try, and they pick a snubby, fine. Load up said snubby with .38SCPL+P JHPs, or .357Mags, and the chances they'll choose the snubby over the many other choices available today isn't that great. From the poor sights, long difficult to master trigger, to the poor sights.....there's just many, many better choices out there on the market today. Ones that make getting hits on the target much, much easier, which makes shooting fun.

I apporach this subject not just from a self-defense perspective, but from the idea that it's much better for people to enjoy shooting, to the point where they want to do it for a life time. The more people we get involved in shooting, the more protected our 2A rights will be in the future. Starting new shooters and CCWers off with nasty shooting pistols is not the way to bring new peple to shooting and keep them with us.

argy1182
01-14-2012, 10:11
I think you're poking fun at me, but your spelling, punctuation and grammar is making it difficult to be sure. Something about the Lions....something about Oprah.....the rest is gibberish.

Never ceases to impress how a query for advice can turn to mud slinging. Stay classy, dude.

OP - I'd read through the options listed in this thread and other online sources and spend a day at the range with your wife to try out the various options before committing. Have a good one!

faawrenchbndr
01-14-2012, 10:16
This is the same old b.s. that "firearms trainers" have been bloviating on for 50 years.....them wimmin folk are gonna shoot from inside their purse.:rofl:

Yep, that's gonna work.....reaaaal well.:rofl:

Which brings us right back to a snubby.:supergrin:

You're hopeless,........:wavey:

WoodenPlank
01-14-2012, 10:20
Here's my thoughts as to why a revolver like a j-frame is a great purse gun.
A woman can actually fire it from inside a pruse, and get off more than one shot.
Doubt this would be possible with a semi auto like the G26.

Now, I will agree, for "on body" carry there are other choices. Also,
a .357 Mag j-frame would not be a recommendation of mine for most
women. .38 Special,....yes, very capable caliber for defense.

Not to mention that it's significantly less likely to have a malfunction, can't be weak-wristed, and if a round fails to fire, you just pull the trigger again.

Since the OP's girlfriend has already got some semi-auto experience, she's probably willing to practice a semi-auto, learn failure drills, and be able to rely on one for self defense. HOWEVER, I don't like the idea of semi's for purse carry, much for the reason you stated, in addition to the innate advantages of a revolver.

faawrenchbndr
01-14-2012, 10:27
Nice to know someone sees my point.

I do agree with the point that the decision of WHAT firearm someone
should carry, is best left to the individual.

Many have complained about the size of the grip on the Beretta 92fs.
My wife is 5'5", 125lbs,......so an average size Lady. She has NO problems
with the Beretta's grip, she shoots it better than most men!

Any rate,.........thanks 'Plank, I'm outta this one before I ruffle some one's feathers.

M&P15T
01-14-2012, 10:31
You're hopeless,........:wavey:

Right back atcha' pardnor!!!

M&P15T
01-14-2012, 10:39
Not to mention that it's significantly less likely to have a malfunction, can't be weak-wristed, and if a round fails to fire, you just pull the trigger again.

All of this is true, there are definitely some advantages to revolvers. But you know what? The average woman/new shooter does not care about that stuff.

Everything you listed are concers that seasoned shooters discuss in forums like this, or over a beer at the local range. New shooters, especially women, are more interested in finding what appeals to them, and as others have noted, what appeals to them is not necessarily always based on logic or facts.

We need to focus on getting more new shooters, and especially more new women shooters, onto the ranges. Forget about the minute details and circumstance specific reasons why you think a particular pistol is the right one to recommend. Most of the reasons that would cause you to recommend a pistol are of little importance to new female shooters. They have completely different ways of figuring stuff like that out, of what concerns them, from you.

ithaca_deerslayer
01-14-2012, 10:43
I have sponsored 4 classes for women/seniors in the recent past.

Many women were new to shooting, and had just bought a new 38 snubbie/airweight because the gun shop recommended it.

Believe me, women don't like airweights...or snubbies! (I don't even like them).

I was approached later by 2 & ask if I could help them sell their new gun......(38's).

Then, a month ago, I took a 25 year old girl who weighs about 120# to the range. She had shot a g-19 twice (2 shots).

I brought my g-19, g-23, g26, and g-30. I also brought a S&W model 19, and a Taurus Tracker 357 (4"), along with a Ruger 22 & Taurus 22.

She ended up shooting and liking the S&W the best!

Go figger'.

Let THEM make the decision!!!
Glad you are putting that effort in. My club is just old guys who want to shoot, and have the women serve coffee. My wife's club does all the organizing, holds women's instruction and shooting events, and pays to get women certified as NRA instructors.

Of course those larger guns are nice to shoot. But keep in mind that for carry, the smaller guns are better suited to actually being carried in real life.

Nothing worse than a jamomatic. Haven't you seen women show up with those, too? They pull out the small mousegun they've been carrying, small sights, can't hit anything, and jam. At least if they have a snubbie, you can have them put some 148gr waddcutters, which are low recoil, and you can start working on fundamentals with a gun that doesn't jam. You can work them on a variety of guns, have them consider the different choices out there, and at the end of the day they go home shooting their small reliable carry gun much better then when they started.

The woman with the small jamomatic? She's going home not able to get her gun working right, and is thinking about options on what to buy next.

You and me? We are gun enthusiasts, and hobbyists, and some are even firearms proffesionals. We'll buy several guns, always buying the next one. If we get one that jams we are working out different loads for it, polishing parts, switching out springs, buying different mags, and if worst comes to worst, sending it back to the factory while switch attention to one of our other 20 carry guns. The average shooter wecare trying to teach is not like that. They just want a carry gun that works, and maybe another larger gun if they also start to get involved in target shooting some. They can ultimately shoot both guns, but we can't assume they are going to get a collection and become like us.

Usmcfox
01-14-2012, 11:09
Problem solved we went to a range/gun shop and she shot a walther ppk a Taurus CIA in 357 and a Taurus 740 slim and she liked the 740'best and at 15 feet all hit center mass. Plus since I load 10mm I have all the ingredients to make some nasty sd loads for it. Thanks for all your input.

ithaca_deerslayer
01-14-2012, 11:13
All of this is true, there are definitely some advantages to revolvers. But you know what? The average woman/new shooter does not care about that stuff.

Everything you listed are concers that seasoned shooters discuss in forums like this, or over a beer at the local range. New shooters, especially women, are more interested in finding what appeals to them, and as others have noted, what appeals to them is not necessarily always based on logic or facts.

We need to focus on getting more new shooters, and especially more new women shooters, onto the ranges. Forget about the minute details and circumstance specific reasons why you think a particular pistol is the right one to recommend. Most of the reasons that would cause you to recommend a pistol are of little importance to new female shooters. They have completely different ways of figuring stuff like that out, of what concerns them, from you.
The first priority in helping someone to find a carry gun is to help them find a carry gun, hopefully one that works reliably for them.

The second priority can be encouraging them to become better shooters, or active in the sport, or pro-gun voters, or whatever you feel is important.

But back to the first priority, lay out some options for them, give them some help, and let them pick. And keep helping them as long as they keep asking, until they become better them you :)

What guns are you laying out on the range table for the woman to choose from in her search for a small carry gun?

I'll personally put out there G26, 642, 637, PPK, LCP, PM9, EMP. Someone else will also typically add to that G19, Berreta bobcat, NAA Guardian, SIG238. And whatevercelse the other instructors bring. Let them try and decide on their own what they like and will likely carry. The revolver is included in those choices.

The instruction usually starts with the larger guns, such as S&W42 or 2206 22's, or a revolver 22, or a GP100 38, or a Berreta 92 or G17 or other such fullsize 9mm. But those aren't the type of guns likely to be concealed carried picks.

Usmcfox
01-14-2012, 11:17
Just took the time to read every post you guys are raging over nothing lol. To each his own.i personally despise taurus firearms. But she claims it's nicer than my competition ready g20. Is she wrong...no am I wrong...no it's just opinions and how you are wired and built.

barth
01-14-2012, 11:20
Just took the time to read every post you guys are raging over nothing lol. To each his own.i personally despise taurus firearms. But she claims it's nicer than my competition ready g20. Is she wrong...no am I wrong...no it's just opinions and how you are wired and built.

Nothing wrong with a Taurus???
Just be happy your girl likes guns and is willing to defend herself.
Sounds like everybody wins to me - LOL.

Have fun and be safe my friend.

hogship
01-14-2012, 11:57
Personally, I prefer the lighter polymer LCP that is double action only, no safety, a little smaller than the PPK, and has about the same or less recoil.

That's what I carry almost every day....LCP.

The LCP definitely has more of a "shock wave" in the recoil than the PPK/S.....and I have carried both, so I'm not just repeating what I've heard.

The recoil on the PPK/S is much easier to handle than the LCP.

The size and weight of the PPK/S is why it's just not that good an option, compared to the current market offerings.......but, if anyone chose the PPK/S for ccw use, it's still a good choice.....and, a personal choice.

ooc

Caladan
01-14-2012, 13:35
The 642 is a lot smaller than the G26. But not as small as a LCP, of course. For similarity in size, the 642 should be compared to the Kahr PM9.

If you actually owned both a 642 and a G26, you would see that the difference in length is less than one-quarter of one inch. And I seem to remember than the 642 is actually taller than the G26. Most people would not consider less than 1/4" to be "a lot" smaller.

And in fact, the 642 is much, much closer in size to a G26 than it is to a PM9 (which I also own as well). Why is this? Because the J and the G26 are both wider than 1", while the PM is less than 1". Both the J and the G are longer than the PM by close to an inch, and they are both taller than the PM too.

Sounds like you need a tape measure....

Foxtrotx1
01-14-2012, 13:36
Problem solved we went to a range/gun shop and she shot a walther ppk a Taurus CIA in 357 and a Taurus 740 slim and she liked the 740'best and at 15 feet all hit center mass. Plus since I load 10mm I have all the ingredients to make some nasty sd loads for it. Thanks for all your input.

You bought a Taurus auto? :wow: Hand loading SD rounds? :wow:

Nakanokalronin
01-14-2012, 14:42
You bought a Taurus auto? :wow: Hand loading SD rounds? :wow:

I'll double your :wow::wow: and raise you a :shocked:

ithaca_deerslayer
01-14-2012, 15:14
If you actually owned both a 642 and a G26, you would see that the difference in length is less than one-quarter of one inch. And I seem to remember than the 642 is actually taller than the G26. Most people would not consider less than 1/4" to be "a lot" smaller.

And in fact, the 642 is much, much closer in size to a G26 than it is to a PM9 (which I also own as well). Why is this? Because the J and the G26 are both wider than 1", while the PM is less than 1". Both the J and the G are longer than the PM by close to an inch, and they are both taller than the PM too.

Sounds like you need a tape measure....

I own all 3, have carried all 3, and also own a ruler and a scale. The 642 is a lot smaller than the G26. There's much of the 642 that is more than 1/4" thinner than the 26.

The 642 and PM9 are similar in size and weight, but of different shape. My own opinion is that the 642 conceals better than the PM9 in IWB, but I am carrying the PM9 as I type this.

Nutnspecial
01-14-2012, 15:48
Don't forget about the Kel-Tec PF-9 for around $250 ...if saving some $ is on the to do list :) Hornady +P Critical Duty should be effective.

ithaca_deerslayer
01-14-2012, 17:02
Problem solved we went to a range/gun shop and she shot a walther ppk a Taurus CIA in 357 and a Taurus 740 slim and she liked the 740'best and at 15 feet all hit center mass. Plus since I load 10mm I have all the ingredients to make some nasty sd loads for it. Thanks for all your input.

Cool. Hope you or she can write up a review of that Taurus she is buying. :)

gator378
01-14-2012, 17:07
Something like the Ruger lc9 would be the natural choice.

When she said the G26 was too big, I assumed she meant the grip/width was too large.



Take a look at the new Sig Sauer 380. Much better than Ruger LC9. My neighbor just got the Sig Sauer 380 and is dumping the Ruger 380. The Ruger IMO is no

manonmars
01-14-2012, 19:05
COMMENT...

Last summer, on a hot morning, I was walking on a BLM road with my Big Dog (NO, not my g-30:supergrin:)

I was carrying my Kel-Tec P-11, which I rarely carry, because it is not fun to practice with..but it was hot................ already.

My dog flushed a fawn, chased it, got it by the neck, and was convinced that this was breakfast.

This was about 30 yards ahead of me, so I knew I was too far away to Physically do anything in time......

I am not into killing fawns.

So I grabbed my P-11 and fired off a round into the dirt about 20' in front of me, hoping to shock my dog into releasing the fawn.

He did, but not because of shock, but because I was yelling at the top of my lungs!!!!

Afterwords, in thinking about it, I did NOT even feel the recoil from the P-11,................... which I do very much when I am plinking with it.

SO............conclusion.............get a reliable gun you feel comfy with, and practice until you get good with it.

If you ever actually need to use the gun to defend anything, any recoil/uncomfortableness/etc. is meaningless...you won't feel it in real life...

...But get something with capacity. 22's have killed a lot of people. (NOT endorsing a 22 for Pers. Prot).

You never know how many ZOMBIES might be attacking at one time................:supergrin:

dragbike
01-14-2012, 19:25
Try a Kahr CM9 or PM9. 6+1 of 9mm in a small but controllable package.

CM9 is a great gun.

bambikilr
01-14-2012, 22:22
well after reading 3 pages of this, M&P15 keeps saying a snubby has too much recoil...all of the tiny, light weight autos I have shot (along with an X & new wife) have just as much recoil, if not more than a snubby...so with a light charged LSMWC in a 38 special is my vote as well....& I'm a hairdresser, so I talk to women much more than you do,( most likely)...& just another .02 cents...my X-wife & current wife, carry an air frame snubby...& yes they have plenty of other guns that I already own to choose from...but I got to buy another gun...win, win

WoodenPlank
01-14-2012, 22:23
well after reading 3 pages of this, M&P15 keeps saying a snubby has too much recoil...all of the tiny, light weight autos I have shot have just as much...

Exactly.

Big.40
01-15-2012, 01:29
I bought my girl a S&W Bodyguard .38 good for at night with laser.

Nakanokalronin
01-15-2012, 04:08
Exactly.

Not trying to exasperate the argument in this thread that was started for no reason but I figured I'd comment before this thread got locked.

I've owned many small semi-autos in .32,.380,9mm and 45acp. I've also owned quite a few snubs in .38spl and .357. For me, I can shoot the smaller semi-autos faster with much less felt recoil.

I guess it depends on who is behind the gun and what their individual capabilities are but I've let quite a few women shoot my snub nose revolvers and not a single one liked it over the semi-autos. The last one I took to the range was my aunt. She used to own a heavy .357 SP101 that she only shot standard (not +P) .38spl loads out of and said it had to much recoil. I have one and find .357 loads quite easy to manage. Well she sold hers and was looking for a new firearm. I had her rent a .380 PPK and although it was manageable, she still didn't care for it. I then rented her a PK-380 and she loved it. After shooting it myself, it seems to be set up for people that have a hard time racking a slide and/or are sensitive to recoil. To me, it was like shooting a heavy full size .22lr.

I'm not going to sit and take sides, but not many women (and some men for that matter) like the recoil of a lightweight snub and prefer semi-autos. Some can take the recoil but don't like the flip and slower follow-up shots. Some may even buy a snub just to test fire once and let it live in a pocket or purse the rest of it's life. This is why I always suggest to rent before buying because only the actual final owner of the gun will know what he/she likes.

Remember, whatever firearms someone chooses for carry, make sure it's a gun that will be practiced with enough on a regular basis.

These are my opinions and should be taken as just that. :thumbsup:

faawrenchbndr
01-15-2012, 05:32
Exactly.


Nice to see someone else picked up on that as well,......:whistling:

faawrenchbndr
01-15-2012, 05:35
.......

Remember, whatever firearms someone chooses for carry, make sure it's a gun that will be practiced with enough on a regular basis.

These are my opinions and should be taken as just that. :thumbsup:

Darn good post! Many great points! The quote above is THE most important
information in this entire thread! :thumbsup:

4 glocks
01-15-2012, 07:53
Just took the time to read every post you guys are raging over nothing lol. To each his own.i personally despise taurus firearms. But she claims it's nicer than my competition ready g20. Is she wrong...no am I wrong...no it's just opinions and how you are wired and built.

Sure they are they always do. If she likes the Taurus than that's the gun for her and it will serve her just fine.

4 glocks
01-15-2012, 08:11
My GF first mag from a LCP this was the first 6 rounds she shot. She shoots her 442 just as well. All this talk about a woman can not shoot a snub is total BS.

WoodenPlank
01-15-2012, 09:19
Not trying to exasperate the argument in this thread that was started for no reason but I figured I'd comment before this thread got locked.

I've owned many small semi-autos in .32,.380,9mm and 45acp. I've also owned quite a few snubs in .38spl and .357. For me, I can shoot the smaller semi-autos faster with much less felt recoil.

I guess it depends on who is behind the gun and what their individual capabilities are but I've let quite a few women shoot my snub nose revolvers and not a single one liked it over the semi-autos. The last one I took to the range was my aunt.

Remember, whatever firearms someone chooses for carry, make sure it's a gun that will be practiced with enough on a regular basis.

These are my opinions and should be taken as just that. :thumbsup:

Snipped to prevent wall of text.

While I completely agree with you in theory, I have had the opposite experience with women I have taught to shoot, or helped get better - with the sole exception of my 62 year old arthritic mother, every single one has handled a J-Frame well, both with standard ball loads and 158gr +P loads. They all also appreciated the simplicity, and the fact that they didn't have to rack a slide, which most of them found somewhat difficult. My mom now has a S&W 327PD for her night stand, and absolutely loves the thing, even with full house .357 Mag loads.

However, you are 100% correct, that each shooter (man and woman) needs to determine what works for them, and go from there.

ithaca_deerslayer
01-15-2012, 09:36
... I had her rent a .380 PPK and although it was manageable, she still didn't care for it. I then rented her a PK-380 and she loved it. After shooting it myself, it seems to be set up for people that have a hard time racking a slide and/or are sensitive to recoil. To me, it was like shooting a heavy full size .22lr.


You raise good points. Did you ever try 148gr wadcutters in the snubbie? They are soft recoiling.

Going to the PK380 was a good idea, since that is larger and heavier than an airweight snubbie, and shoots a less powerful round, thus keeping recoil down.

Nakanokalronin
01-15-2012, 10:11
You raise good points. Did you ever try 148gr wadcutters in the snubbie? They are soft recoiling.

Going to the PK380 was a good idea, since that is larger and heavier than an airweight snubbie, and shoots a less powerful round, thus keeping recoil down.

Well my aunt had a SP101 that is quite heavy (26oz) compared to the Walther (19.4oz) so I don't think it was the weight. The fact that the slide of a semi-auto absorbs some of the recoil is why most can shoot a semi-auto easier and more quickly while staying on target. With a revolver, all of the force is directed back into the frame. This may not be the case for everyone, but it was for my aunt.

I have semi wadcutters in .38spl. and no matter how low recoiling of a load, I can still shoot my sub-compact 45acp guns (even with +P 230gr. ammo) quicker and more accurately.

Like I said, most people perceive guns in a different way. The .380 is a lighter recoiling round, but is plenty for defense. My SP101 sees very limited use by accompanying me on bike trips, otherwise it's a semi-auto 99% of the time.

I like revolvers but usually prefer the bigger frames like my GP100 or Redhawk. I see advantages to semi-autos like faster reloads, less recoil, quicker follow up shots and a slimmer profile. Many would not agree with me and that's fine since what works for me may not work for them. Considering we're all individuals with different tastes and wants, it shouldn't really be any different when choosing a firearm for recreation or defense.

ithaca_deerslayer
01-15-2012, 11:03
Well my aunt had a SP101 that is quite heavy (26oz) compared to the Walther (19.4oz) so I don't think it was the weight. The fact that the slide of a semi-auto absorbs some of the recoil is why most can shoot a semi-auto easier and more quickly while staying on target. With a revolver, all of the force is directed back into the frame. This may not be the case for everyone, but it was for my aunt.

I have semi wadcutters in .38spl. and no matter how low recoiling of a load, I can still shoot my sub-compact 45acp guns (even with +P 230gr. ammo) quicker and more accurately.

Like I said, most people perceive guns in a different way. The .380 is a lighter recoiling round, but is plenty for defense. My SP101 sees very limited use by accompanying me on bike trips, otherwise it's a semi-auto 99% of the time.

I like revolvers but usually prefer the bigger frames like my GP100 or Redhawk. I see advantages to semi-autos like faster reloads, less recoil, quicker follow up shots and a slimmer profile. Many would not agree with me and that's fine since what works for me may not work for them. Considering we're all individuals with different tastes and wants, it shouldn't really be any different when choosing a firearm for recreation or defense.
I suggest 148gr wadcutters as the first type of round shot by the newbbie through a 38 snubbie. They are lower recoil than any other load. Doesn't matter the brand, but they have to be that load.

I too can shoot a semi-auto more accurately (generally), no argument there :)

Also, you can get different grips, bigger, longer, to make a snubbie have less felt recoil, if you want to.

Switching to a semi-auto is fine. Whatever works and is reliable and the shooter likes for his or her purposes. No argument there either :)

I just don't agree with those who would suggest that no woman consider a snubbie for a carry gun. Snubbies are great guns and should be considered along with the semi-autos. They may not be picked always, but sometimes they are the perfect solution and fit.

Usmcfox
01-15-2012, 11:09
Is there something wrong with hand loads for sd? I use hand load gdhp 180s in my g20.

WoodenPlank
01-15-2012, 11:16
Is there something wrong with hand loads for sd? I use hand load gdhp 180s in my g20.

Short answer is this - yes, there is. Not from a performance or reliability aspect, but from a liability aspect when you actually shoot someone with it.

I would suggest posting this question in the Go Ask the Experts - Self Defense section. Mas Ayoob will give you a much better answer than most anyone else on GT can. He will also explain the liability issues you would face using hand loads for SD.

ddss33
01-15-2012, 11:22
I have a CM9 . Very concealable . Completely reliable . Great gun .

+1 I have been 100% happy with my CM9. Easy to handle and really easy to slip into a pocket or purse.

4 glocks
01-15-2012, 11:42
Is there something wrong with hand loads for sd? I use hand load gdhp 180s in my g20.

Like WP said people think if you ever were in a SD shooting and had to go to court the lawyers would make a big deal about reloading your own ammo.
Like you were looking for a fight. I would use quality factory SD ammo like Gold dot or CD.

WoodenPlank
01-15-2012, 11:46
Like WP said people think if you ever were in a SD shooting and had to go to court the lawyers would make a big deal about reloading your own ammo.
Like you were looking for a fight. I would use quality factory SD ammo like Gold dot or CD.

Yep. doesn't matter how true it is, it matters how much the jury buys the BS the prosecutor is slinging to make you look bad. It does happen, and I believe Mas has documented cases of it happening.

Like I said, either search previous posts in the GATE Self Defense forum for posts on hand loads for SD, or post a new thread to ask. Mas has addressed the issue several times over.

shockglock
01-15-2012, 16:14
Congrats! As long as she likes it and feels good to her is all that matters.

Usmcfox
01-15-2012, 16:20
Just ordered glaser safety slugs thanks for the advice.

Veedubklown
01-15-2012, 16:27
I cannot understand why anyone suggests sunbbys for new shooters/CCWers, when there are so many better autos out there. If we want more people to get into shooting, they need to have better suggestions from experienced shooters. They can't go to the range the first time with their new snubby they bought on some idiot's suggestion, and find the experience horrible. The experience will turn them off to shooting, and they won't continue shooting and recruiting more people into shooting.

For Christ's sake, can we please stop suggesting awful firearms to new shooters?

Revolvers are always a great solution for new shooters, reguardless of caliber. She already shoots a full sized 10mm without issue, I think a snubby chambered in .357 isn't going to bother her. The great part about a .357, you can still shoot .38 from it. So, she can practice with it cheaper, and if .38 is easy for her to handle, she can try .357. It has versiatility and adaptability in 1 gun, that can grow with her.

My girlfriend always prefered autos, but we already had a .38 snub when I bought her an SR9c. She should definately handle and shoot both. I put over a dozen guns in my GF's hand before she settled on the SR9c.

Never Nervous
01-15-2012, 20:46
[QUOTE=M&P15T;18429642]I apologise for calling (collectively) males idiots when discussing firearms needs for women, but it's the truth.

:dunno:

NN

M&P15T
01-16-2012, 08:21
[QUOTE=M&P15T;18429642]I apologise for calling (collectively) males idiots when discussing firearms needs for women, but it's the truth.

:dunno:

NN

Yes??

"Cold Dead Hands" !
06-02-2012, 16:06
Here's my thoughts as to why a revolver like a j-frame is a great purse gun.
A woman can actually fire it from inside a pruse, and get off more than one shot.
Doubt this would be possible with a semi auto like the G26.

Now, I will agree, for "on body" carry there are other choices. Also,
a .357 Mag j-frame would not be a recommendation of mine for most
women. .38 Special,....yes, very capable caliber for defense.
What if she doesn't have time to stick it in the purse before firing ?

shadow_dog
06-02-2012, 16:29
I had been looking for a small thin 9mm auto for ccw. I settled on a KelTec PF9. Yeah I know let the flaming begin. Anyway, I figured having good luck with my P40 and P32, why not give the PF9 a try. I got it home and done all the fluff and buff normally associated with the KelTecs and loctited the extractor screw.

Wife and I took it to the range. I have been trying to get her to pick out a ccw pistol for her purse. She fell in love with the PF9. It is her purse ccw pistol now. I had to go back to the LGS and buy me another one to replace the one she took from me.

BobCZ
06-02-2012, 17:28
I believe that one should NOT make a choice of CC for a new shooter. But rather do what I am doing. New GF wants to learn to shoot, zero experience. I agree to work with her if she does several things.

1. Pass a written test, all the basic information on safety and nomeclature. (done)
2. Commit to be a shooter and not just a gun owner. (in progress)
3. In conjunction to #2 train (in progress)
4. Practical experience on different handguns, J frame, Glock 19 17 & 26, CZ 75b, 1911, Sig, 686, Smith body guard .380.
5. Read and learn on the subject matter. The website www.corneredcat.com (http://www.corneredcat.com) is a great site for women shooters.

I don't see any reason why a smart woman with mutiple degrees that works in critical situations in healthcare needs me to "pick out" a gun for her. She is more than capable of making that decision based upon her growing knowledge and experience.

I am not even going to go with her when she buys her first pistol.

If she would go buy tomorrow, she has said it would be a Glock 19. I was suprised by this, thought she would favor the 26 at 5'3" 110 lbs.
(BTW she has not had one misfire while I shot with her so no LW)

janice6
06-02-2012, 17:51
The OP says "A purse gun".

You can fire a 642 SA & W while it is still in the purse, 5 times.

Jade Falcon
06-02-2012, 18:05
Let her go to the range, or gunshop, and handle a bunch of guns until she finds the one she likes, that fits her hand and shooting grasp well. As much as you try to offer her guns, the fact of the matter is, she may end up with one that recoils too much. For example: can she handle the sting and recoil of a J-frame with full-house loads? If not, she's going to have a hell of a time defending herself when the SHTF.