First attempt at plinking ammo issues - 40 S&W [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : First attempt at plinking ammo issues - 40 S&W


cowboyarcher
01-16-2012, 17:36
Hi All,

Loaded up 10 rounds of 135grn Rainier FMJ Flat points over 10.5grns of Hodgdon Longshot as a trial for my Glock 27. They were loaded to 1.125" COAL in mixed once fired brass.

All of the first 4 failed to feed, but fired fine and felt 'peppy' enough, and the slide was cycling like it was supposed to. The slide would catch at the back of the cycle and a simple rack would chamber the next round.

I'm wondering if the feed issues is caused by the lighter load, or perhaps I have too much flair?

Number 5 I think I missed the powder charge in. It had the light report of the primer, and the bullet lodged in the barrel just .5" from the chamber.

I happened to have a Glock 29 with a LWD barrel with me. The last 5 round fed and fired perfectly through it.

I've included a photo of the first round I loaded (seated deeper than the 10 I fired) and the bullet I removed from the barrel (notice the lack of powder marks, I'm 75% sure I simply just missed charging it).

http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp112/cowboyarcher/100_5384.jpg

Any thoughts on how to make this load feed reliably?

GioaJack
01-16-2012, 18:01
Would you get on an airplane with only a 75% chance of landing safely?

Firing rounds after a squib can be a bit dicey unless you know you loaded a squib, corrected the situation at that moment and then simply forgot to remove the bad round from your correctly loaded ammo.

All too often the powder that was supposed to go into the squib round ends up on top of the charge in the next round.

Sometimes it's better to spend a little time pulling bullets... I'm sure it's quicker than waiting on parts or having a gunsmith do repairs.


Jack

WiskyT
01-16-2012, 18:06
To say nothing of the dental bills.

fredj338
01-16-2012, 18:06
Certainly a squib load on the stuck bullet. A rpimer has just enough gas to push the bullet into the bbl. ALWAYS check, a brass range rod is nice to get the bullet out & check ofr the squib. I hate the idea of looking down a bbl.:wow:
I haven't loaded the lighter 135gr bullets, don't see the need really, but 10.5gr of LS should be a nice middle of the road load & run the gun fine, unless you are using a heavier spring?? Did you swap the spring in your G29 when you swapped bbls? Were those charges weighed or are you using the Lee chart? The Lee chart is almost always light, so you should always weigh the charges thrown.

IndyGunFreak
01-16-2012, 18:11
I'm wondering if the feed issues is caused by the lighter load, or perhaps I have too much flair?
...

Any thoughts on how to make this load feed reliably?

First trouble shoot it and figure out *what* is causing the feeding problem

Typically (from what I've read) LWD barrels are pretty tight, so if they fed in an LWD barrel, I would think it should feed well in a stock Glock barrel. Not really looking at the squib problem, but the feeding problem (assuming they were charged properly)...

1. Pull the "problem" barrel (which I assume is the stock Glock barrel)
2. Resize a couple of cases (no bullet/powder/primer)
3. See if those sized cases fall in/out of your barrel freely. If they don't, there's a problem with your Sizer die.
4. If they drop in/out fine, Load a round like you normally would.
5. Drop finished round in the barrel, see if it hangs up. If it hangs up (ie, you have to force it in, etc.,.) check your overall length, and also check that you're seating/crimp dies are set properly.

Beanie-Bean
01-16-2012, 18:21
Where did you find load data for 135 gr lead? I looked at the manuals, and also the Hodgon site for lead data at that weight, and i didn't see anything.

My manuals only list 135 Noslers...

cowboyarcher
01-16-2012, 18:32
Let me clarify guys - failure to feed occurred in a completely factory Glock 27. The squib as you all called it, stopped the range time with this gun today. No rounds were fired after it, as I could tell from the report it was not a proper round.

I fired the second set of 5 in my dad's Glock 29 with the LWD barrel.

So, 2 different guns, 2 different results.

I don't have a progressive set up. I have a standard powder dispenser mounted over a lee powder through expanding die. I'd guess with the squib I simply forgot to throw the lever on the dispenser.

cowboyarcher
01-16-2012, 18:34
Where did you find load data for 135 gr lead? I looked at the manuals, and also the Hodgon site for lead data at that weight, and i didn't see anything.

My manuals only list 135 Noslers...

These are jacketed - I just started at the lower end of the published loads.

I found the loads on handloader.com

fredj338
01-16-2012, 21:34
These are jacketed - I just started at the lower end of the published loads.

I found the loads on handloader.com
Hodgdon has data on their site:
135 GR. NOS JHP Hodgdon Longshot .400" 1.125" 8.5 1241 25,100 PSI 11.5 1434 31,900 PSI

As long as you are removing the case mouth flare w/ a taper crimp, that should not be the issue. Your stopage sounds shooter induced. If you shoot thumb down, you could be engagging the slide stop, I see it often in IDPA matches.

njl
01-16-2012, 21:59
Certainly a squib load on the stuck bullet. A rpimer has just enough gas to push the bullet into the bbl. ALWAYS check, a brass range rod is nice to get the bullet out & check ofr the squib. I hate the idea of looking down a bbl.

When I had my first squib a few weeks ago at a pin match, as soon as I realized what I thought had happened, I cleared my G21, field stripped it at the firing line, and then looked down the barrel from the chamber end, and saw the rear end of a bullet. At that point, I knew I was done at that firing position.

Beanie-Bean
01-16-2012, 22:06
Hmm...now I'm a little confused.

Rainier lists their product as a plated bullet, not a jacketed bullet, so I'm reading that the loads should be taken from lead data, not from jacketed bullet data. That was straight from their site.

Is this (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1050113890/rainier-leadsafe-bullets-40-s-and-w-10mm-auto-400-diameter-135-grain-plated-flat-nose) what you're loading? Because I've got some of these (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/754303/nosler-sporting-handgun-bullets-40-s-and-w-10mm-auto-400-diameter-135-grain-jacketed-hollow-point-box-of-250), and the load data will not be the same between the two. Just don't want you to possibly get hurt.

Here is the information straight from the Rainier Ballistics site:


We, at Rainier Ballistics, recommend using lead bullet load data when loading our bullets. There is no need for adjustment when using lead bullet load data. Our bullets are jacketed using an electroplating process and are softer than traditionally jacketed bullets; hence the recommendation to use lead bullet load data. If you only have access to traditionally jacketed load data, we recommend a starting powder charge directly between the listed minimum and maximum load. A roll or taper crimp may be used with our bullets; do not over crimp.

Colorado4Wheel
01-16-2012, 22:19
Your right.

IndyGunFreak
01-17-2012, 04:05
Let me clarify guys - failure to feed occurred in a completely factory Glock 27. The squib as you all called it, stopped the range time with this gun today. No rounds were fired after it, as I could tell from the report it was not a proper round.

I fired the second set of 5 in my dad's Glock 29 with the LWD barrel.

So, 2 different guns, 2 different results.

I don't have a progressive set up. I have a standard powder dispenser mounted over a lee powder through expanding die. I'd guess with the squib I simply forgot to throw the lever on the dispenser.

So did I misunderstand, you had two different problems? Several failure to feeds, then the squib... right? You had mentioned you thought you had a crimp problem.

firefighter4215
01-17-2012, 04:35
Well, I once mentioned using the data from Hodgdon's website for some plated bullets and was promptly "corrected." "Bullets aren't just plug and play" I think was the quote. Regardless, I never tried Longshot with a 135 grain plated bullet because even the starting charge was supposed to put you in excess of 1,200 fps. I use the jacketed data, load to 1.130", and stay between the starting load and halfway up the scale, if that makes any sense.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

cowboyarcher
01-17-2012, 07:59
You all are right - the Rainier bullets are plated, not jacketed. As such, I should be using lead data.

As for my thumb catching the slide catch while firing, I do not believe that to be the problem. The problem of the slide catching only occurs with these reloads.

Yes - 2 separate issues, the failure to feeds, then the squib. I only mentioned the extra handgun and it's lack of issues to try to help pinpoint the problem. Remember, the Glock 29 is a 10mm, not a 40 S&W. I thought perhaps the added length of the 10mm magazine, and the extra distance the 40 S&W round had to travel to get to the chamber, increased the momentum enough to feed the round even with whatever problem was occurring.

I assumed that the problem was crimp related, that's why I mentioned it in the OP. Is there something else it could be? Could my seating depth be to deep?

It sounds like the problem is NOT my loads being too light, if anything, they are too heavy for the plated bullets.

cowboyarcher
01-17-2012, 08:00
Well, I once mentioned using the data from Hodgdon's website for some plated bullets and was promptly "corrected." "Bullets aren't just plug and play" I think was the quote. Regardless, I never tried Longshot with a 135 grain plated bullet because even the starting charge was supposed to put you in excess of 1,200 fps. I use the jacketed data, load to 1.130", and stay between the starting load and halfway up the scale, if that makes any sense.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

It does - you're loading to 75% of the max load I think.

GioaJack
01-17-2012, 08:40
Haven't had enough coffee or cigarettes yet to fully comprehend everything that's been said yet but based on your question in the last post about length and crimp simply do a barrel drop test then run your rounds through your mags for functioning.

Don't complicate this stuff... learn the basics then after a few tens of thousands of rounds play all you want, by then you should know what you're doing.

Forget about SD rounds, you're not going to make anything better than what you can buy.


Jack

steve4102
01-17-2012, 08:57
I assumed that the problem was crimp related,

How are you crimping? Seating die seat/crimp in single step? Seating die separate step? Dedicated tapper crimp die?

What does your crimp measure?

unclebob
01-17-2012, 09:49
First I would contact Glock and see if you have the right recoil spring. They do have a replacement for them if you have one of the first ones to come out.
Put the stock barrel back in the gun. Unless you are shooting lead you do not need the aftermarket barrel. I would also polish the feed ramp.
Load 13 rounds in your mags and let them sit for 2 weeks.



I don't have a progressive set up. I have a standard powder dispenser mounted over a lee powder through expanding die. I'd guess with the squib I simply forgot to throw the lever on the dispenser.

Before you place a bullet on a case, no matter what press you are using. You look inside the case and you make sure you have powder and the right amount of powder. Keep doing what you are doing and you will have many more squibs, and maybe a double. You never take for granted that the powder dumped in the case.

cowboyarcher
01-17-2012, 10:34
How are you crimping? Seating die seat/crimp in single step? Seating die separate step? Dedicated tapper crimp die?

What does your crimp measure?

I have a slight crimp with the seat die, then a heavier crimp in a Lee factory crimp die.

I'm using these:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/622255/lee-deluxe-carbide-4-die-set-40-s-and-w-10mm-auto

I do not know how to measure the crimp, can you explain that to me?

fredj338
01-17-2012, 11:17
If the roudns are working int he G27 & not in the G29/LW, then I submit it's the added slide mass or mag or spring or both. Try getting the load to run in the gun it was designed for first. Then look to the G29 later. You've got too many variables going on.
Also dump the LFCD for the plated bullets. It doesn't help anything & has proven to me to ruin plated bullet accuracy.

cowboyarcher
01-17-2012, 11:19
If the roudns are working int he G27 & not in the G29/LW, then I submit it's the added slide mass or mag or spring or both. Try getting the load to run in the gun it was designed for first. Then look to the G29 later. You've got too many variables going on.
Also dump the LFCD for the plated bullets. It doesn't help anything & has proven to me to ruin plated bullet accuracy.

I would agree with your conclusion, except they run in the 29 and not the 27. . .

unclebob
01-17-2012, 11:34
After rereading your first post it sounds like you are hitting the slide release when shooting. This will cause the gun to stop working in a heartbeat. Since you say that the slide locks back. Three things will case that. One, your thumb hitting the slide release. The gun is empty, or the slide rease is installed wrong. With the smaller guns you have to watch were your thumbs are.