+P for Glock 30 SF [Archive] - Glock Talk

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tooexcessive
01-20-2012, 13:03
I read here that some individuals use +P ammo. What is the advantage of using this hot load? Showing my ignorance but learning. :dunno:

AK47Man
01-20-2012, 14:17
I use +P ammo in my G30..Winchester Ranger T & SXT Series (Talon)..Also use Federal +P HST...It does NOT hurt your G30 to shoot these..!!

Nutt51
01-20-2012, 14:19
+P loads are generally a higher pressure and velocity load, mostly
intended for self defense or police work, and usually loaded with
some type of hollow point bullet that will expand, but stay intact.
Most of the major ammo makers put out some type of +P, and
even some a +P+ load.
Most of us shoot the regular velocity ammo for target shooting,
plinking, competition, etc., and save the +P loads for serious work.
You can go to youtube and put in +P ammo and see some good
demonstrations of what a +P load will do. Here's one.
http://youtu.be/YcwaMwB13Gg

The Glock 30 will eat +P loads just fine, it's a sturdy gun.


Don't be afraid to ask questions, that is the way to learn.
You can also go to some of the major ammo makers websites,
Federal, Remington, Speer, Winchester, etc., and compare their
+P loads to the regular ammo, to see the difference in velocities,
and performance.

tooexcessive
01-20-2012, 14:28
Thank you for your responses!

plouffedaddy
01-20-2012, 14:31
I run HST +P rounds in my G30 and it loves them :supergrin: Glocks eat any kind of ammo and the +p loads are no exception.

Generally speaking, +p loads will have more ft/lbs when they impact the target. People debate whether that is important but I believe it is, especially in 9mm. That said, it will also (generally) recoil harder than standard loads. I run +p in some guns, standard in others. Some guns handle recoil better than others and you have to weigh the 'one shot knockdown power' vs follow up shot speed. Only you can make the call as to which is more important.
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l178/tiffani33/Guns/IMAG0533.jpg

AK47Man
01-20-2012, 15:48
I run HST +P rounds in my G30 and it loves them :supergrin: Glocks eat any kind of ammo and the +p loads are no exception.

Generally speaking, +p loads will have more ft/lbs when they impact the target. People debate whether that is important but I believe it is, especially in 9mm. That said, it will also (generally) recoil harder than standard loads. I run +p in some guns, standard in others. Some guns handle recoil better than others and you have to weigh the 'one shot knockdown power' vs follow up shot speed. Only you can make the call as to which is more important.

+1 Plouffedaddy...I use these rounds in my G30 as my daily glovebox....

kvtcomdo
01-22-2012, 11:52
Shoot and enjoy. Will NOT be a problem.:wow:

barth
01-22-2012, 12:02
My understanding is that Glocks are build across the board to run hot NATO style ammo.
(+P or +P+ in any caliber should be good to go)

Like everybody pretty much is saying.
+P = More velocity, more energy, more recoil.

Small calibers like 9mm - I think it matters a lot.
Large Caliber .45 - Not so much.

Shoot both and see if you prefer one over the other???

Personally,
I'm running 230 gr Winchester Ranger Ts in my Sig P220.
But -
1) My P220 IS NOT +P rated
2) I can feel the recoil difference
3) I've got a 5.5" barrel so I'm getting good velocity from the standard round.

In 45 I don't feel under-powered without +P (~400 E/P+ ~500E)
And the standard pressure round is soft and easy to shoot on target.

thinkfast
01-22-2012, 21:58
The advantage would be the increased velocity at which the bullet leaves the barrel compared to a similar load in non +p. However, before you let anyone bully you into buying +p, know this: standard max pressure for 'regular' .45 is 21000 psi, and .45+p is 23000. So there's a bit more oomph, but it's not like +p is some double or triple power magic bullet of death.

nelsone
01-23-2012, 01:51
It's interesting that the FBI recommends against +P JHP ammo because it expands so quickly and completely on impact that its penetration is usually significantly less than standard loads. The FBI report stresses penetration and weight retention above all else - make of that what you will.
http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf

Fackler says that the modern JHP ammo manufacturers attempt to cheat the statistics by making slugs that open slowly and late to maximize penetration but still leave a nice big "flower" at the far end.

I carry a very old-fashioned round and in an even older caliber: 230 gr. .45ACP Rem Golden Sabre. IMO high reliability beats high tech any day of the week.

NEOH212
01-23-2012, 02:19
What you get is a increase in velocity and energy at the expense of more recoil and more wear and tear on the gun. How much of a benefit is there to be had from +P ammo? IMHO, not much and certainly not enough to justify the increase in recoil and wear on the gun. If I feel the need for +P, I'll go to the next larger caliber.

YMMV. :wavey:

MinnesnowtaWild
01-23-2012, 02:54
I know as far as 9mm in 124g Speer Gold Dot's, the standard pressure and +P version differences are significant enough for me. There are some videos showing the expansion differences online with similar penetration characteristics.

Then from a 4" barrel you get about 70 fps and 50 ft/lbs of energy more with the 124g +P load. That is enough for me to carry +P with the extra recoil.

As far as .45 ACP, I really do not know if it's worth it or not. I would have to test the recoil first, because I would imagine a .45 +P might be too much for most.

tooexcessive
01-24-2012, 11:58
Plouffedaddy....where did you find your HST +P ammo? Everything I read, it is for law enforcement only.

Dave Nowlin
01-24-2012, 12:15
What you get is a increase in velocity and energy at the expense of more recoil and more wear and tear on the gun. How much of a benefit is there to be had from +P ammo? IMHO, not much and certainly not enough to justify the increase in recoil and wear on the gun. If I feel the need for +P, I'll go to the next larger caliber.

YMMV. :wavey:

And that next larger caliber would be........... Remember we are already talking about .45a.c.p. here in a Glock. The next larger caliber is???

plouffedaddy
01-24-2012, 12:42
I'm military and had to show my credentials to buy it originally at our local LE dealer but I know there's plenty of sites that let you buy it without any credentials. I know a couple people at my range that use mahsupplies.net and have nothing but good things to say about them. Sometimes they sell it at below LEO cost; I've picked up a box or 10 from them as well :supergrin:

tooexcessive
01-24-2012, 12:47
Plouffedaddy, Got it...Thank you for your response!

PAGunner
01-24-2012, 12:56
I run HST +Ps through my USPc .45, approximately the same size gun as the G38 and the advantages are, well, hotter ammo. Probably getting around 870-900fps out of the short barrel, not bad. Disadvantage is more muzzle blast and muzzle flip, definitely noticeable but it's a trade off.

7.62FMJ
07-01-2012, 23:11
Anybody have any pictures of your factory Glock barrel with a 45 casing to show how supported it is? For some reason I'm thinking the one I got (30SF) is majorly under supported.

Creatism
07-01-2012, 23:25
I just used up the last of +p in 45. I carry a 36 and really don't like the recoil of +p in that gun. Felt recoil can be more with +p so try it first. Like I said with my gun I don't like the recoil of +p in it, so I run standard pressure 230 either pdx or hydroshock!


Typed from my iPhone with my thumbs!!

anomaly13
07-02-2012, 22:23
I use a DPM recoil rod in my g30 and i have a storm lake extended barrel....tried regular and +P flavors of HST...i still don't care for the extra recoil/flip of +P, even with my rod (and it absorbs a very noticeable amount of recoil)....for me though, quicker follow up shots are of more importance....and looking at the numbers from here -

http://le.atk.com/general/federalproducts/pistol/tacticalhst.aspx

- the difference between the fps/ft lbs of the two is negligible....getting hit by either is going to leave a mark....

GRT45
07-03-2012, 08:50
I use a DPM recoil rod in my g30 and i have a storm lake extended barrel....tried regular and +P flavors of HST...i still don't care for the extra recoil/flip of +P, even with my rod (and it absorbs a very noticeable amount of recoil)....for me though, quicker follow up shots are of more importance....and looking at the numbers from here -

http://le.atk.com/general/federalproducts/pistol/tacticalhst.aspx

- the difference between the fps/ft lbs of the two is negligible....getting hit by either is going to leave a mark....

anomaly13 reflects my thoughts exactly regarding +P and 45ACP.

More importantly, the ATK Wound Ballistic Workshop (http://le.atk.com/pdf/Butte_WBW_5_27_09.pdf) test results from May, 2009 (see results below) make it quite clear that +P is not an advantage by itself for 45ACP and can be outperformed by a different bullet design running at standard pressure.

The ballistic test I look at most carefully is the FBI Protocol Heavy Clothing Test⁽⁾ because that is a better fit for the actual SD situation I'm likely to encounter as a civilian CHL holder. Tests through barriers (auto glass, wallboard and plywood) are more of interest to LE. I want to know how well the JHP expands and penetrates after passing through heavy clothing. If a JHP round routinely plugs up and fails to expand (becoming ball ammo) it's one to avoid.

As an aside note, Mas Ayoob carries standard pressure Winchester Ranger-T 230gr JHP in his Glock 30.

Winchester Ranger-T 230gr JHP (RA45T)

Penetration: 13.75 inches
Expansion (Avg): 0.922 inch

Federal HST 230gr +P JHP (P45HST1)

Penetration: 13.0 inches
Expansion (Avg): 0.824 inch

Speer Gold Dot 230gr JHP (53966)

Penetration: 13.5 inches
Expansion (Avg): 0.673 inch

It's interesting to note that ATK owns Speer and Federal. Winchester is their competitor. The ATK Wound Ballistic Workshop data can be relied upon to be unbiased.

____________________________________________
Footnotes

1. FBI Protocol Heavy Clothing Test: The gelatin block is covered with four layers of clothing: One layer of cotton T-shirt (48 threads per inch); one layer of cotton shirt material (80 threads per inch); a 10 ounce down comforter in cambric shell cover (232 threads per inch); and one layer of 13 ounce cotton denim (50 threads per inch). This simulates typical cold weather wear. The block is shot at ten feet, measured from the muzzle to the front of the block.

FFR Spyder GT
07-03-2012, 09:13
Ive carried everything from std vel 185gr to 230gr, +P in 185gr to 230gr, 200gr to 230gr .451 Detonics Magnum (a .45ACP lengthened .042"), 185gr to 230gr in .45 Super and to be honest I never felt undergunned with just plain everyday 230gr FMJ ammo. While on AD I carried a 1911A1 into combat with ball ammo and never said "Gee, I wished I had a fancy hi-tech HP!".

I carry Rem GS 185gr std vel in my Taurus PT-845, and Fed Hudra-Shok in my Norinco 1911A1, and don't remember the brand 230gr +P in my G21SF.

Your G30 is based on the G20 which was designed to handle full power 10mm loads so .45ACP +P will not harm it even with extended use.

Spyder