do I need some 800X?

[gofastman]

I have been using Longshot and I love the stuff, I was gonna play with some Win AutoComp with lighter bullets. (Mudrush said this was the powder he used in his 155gr XTP's)
But I keep hearing great things about how versatile and powerful 800x is.
Do I need to try some to become a believer?
Is it better than Longshot for 180 and 200gr bullets?

[Yondering]

It depends if you're willing to put up with the poor metering qualities of 800-X. If so, yes. The more powders you try, the better, IMO.

Have you tried Blue Dot and AA9 yet?

[LASTRESORT20]

~ NO ~

~ "Have you tried Blue Dot and AA9 yet?" ~

[gofastman]

Have you tried Blue Dot and AA9 yet?
No, I'm thinking of buying some AA9 when I use up the 2400 that I use in my .fo fo

Whats so special about Blue Dot? as I understood it, it was sort of a jack of all trades, master on none magnum powder...
Sort of like a Magnum version of Unique

[Yondering]

Other than 800-X, Blue Dot has given higher velocity than any other powder in my 10mm loads before running into pressure signs. That's not comprehensive of course, I want to work more with AA9 and heavy bullets, but the point is, Blue Dot is a very good 10mm powder. If you haven't tried it yet, you should.

Look at the Hornady and Speer manuals; Blue Dot is at or near the top of the charts, for velocity, for most bullet weights in the 10mm.

[Kwesi]

I just tried my first # Blue Dot. It did not meter well compared to Power Pistol & Longshot. It does provide lit's of muzzle flash & boom but so does Power Pistol. My drops with BD varied up to .4 grains. Much like 800X.

[Taterhead]

Folks around here know me to not be a huge fan of 800-X. I have used as much of it as any powder except Blue Dot. I am down to a little over a pound, but I do not see myself buying any more.

A few reasons.

1) to get results with it you generally must load charges that are SIGNIFICANTLY beyond book data.

2) Metering. I do hand-weigh anything close to max regardless of the powder. It is nice to run the medium-hot stuff through a powder throw. Not advisable with 800-X. Longshot, Accurate #9, and Blue Dot meter well in my Uniflow.

3) I have not experienced 800-X to get better results than other powders except for 135s. It could be that my barrel does not like that powder, but Blue Dot and Accurate #9 work better. For given velocities, 800-X has demonstrated comparatively higher symptoms of pressure - in my setup. For 180s it is especially true. 800-X gives massive Glock smiles at velocities less than 1200 fps. No such problems with Blue Dot, LS, or A9.

For the loader who already has LS onhand, I don't see much to be gained by switching to 800-X. All the performance can be had with LS with respectable metering.

Of course, everybody's setups will run a little differently so YMMV.

[CanyonMan]

Folks around here know me to not be a huge fan of 800-X. I have used as much of it as any powder except Blue Dot. I am down to a little over a pound, but I do not see myself buying any more.

A few reasons.

1) to get results with it you generally must load charges that are SIGNIFICANTLY beyond book data.

2) Metering. I do hand-weigh anything close to max regardless of the powder. It is nice to run the medium-hot stuff through a powder throw. Not advisable with 800-X. Longshot, Accurate #9, and Blue Dot meter well in my Uniflow.

3) I have not experienced 800-X to get better results than other powders except for 135s. It could be that my barrel does not like that powder, but Blue Dot and Accurate #9 work better. For given velocities, 800-X has demonstrated comparatively higher symptoms of pressure - in my setup. For 180s it is especially true. 800-X gives massive Glock smiles at velocities less than 1200 fps. No such problems with Blue Dot, LS, or A9.

For the loader who already has LS onhand, I don't see much to be gained by switching to 800-X. All the performance can be had with LS with respectable metering.

Of course, everybody's setups will run a little differently so YMMV.



Well, pasing through amigo's and saw this. I agree with it all, just high lighted my favorite parts.... Ha.

When I shoot the 10mm, it is with about 98% Blue Dot. Works great for my needs as well. :winkie:


Stay safe
Bless y'all


Gotta run again... Adios gang !







CM

[jeffreybehr]

"do I need some 800X??

Only if you want HUGE muzzleflashes in the gloom.

http://jeffreybehr.zenfolio.com/

[Kegs]

YES. if you want some serious full power loads in the lighter bullet weights and hand load carefully.

However, I believe longshot may have the edge for the heavier bullets, though I haven't personally tested this.

Just because it's over book does not mean it is over pressure. OTOH, doesn't mean it isn't either.

Seeing how fast I can make the 150 grain noslers fly is in "pending" mode. Based on initial loadings (I always work up conservatively), it's going to make them go >1600 fps.

It takes a long time and lots of focus to make phenomenal ammo. I don't meter my charges.

[Kegs]

"do I need some 800X??

Only if you want HUGE muzzleflashes in the gloom.

http://jeffreybehr.zenfolio.com/

HUGE? HUGE would be blue dot. Moderate is more like it for 800x. :wavey:

It seems that most commercial loaders have been using long shot.

Makes sense to me.

[gofastman]

ok, well I'll see how AutoComp works for me with the light loads, if I cant make it work, then ill try some 800X
Thanks for the help :wavey:

[Taterhead]

HUGE? HUGE would be blue dot. Moderate is more like it for 800x. :wavey:

It seems that most commercial loaders have been using long shot.

Makes sense to me.

If I am not mistaken, that is a BD flash in your avatar? Amazing that it is that visible in daylight. Imagine it in the dark.

[Yondering]

I just tried my first # Blue Dot. It did not meter well compared to Power Pistol & Longshot. It does provide lit's of muzzle flash & boom but so does Power Pistol. My drops with BD varied up to .4 grains. Much like 800X.

Blue Dot of course does not meter as well as the much finer flake or ball powders, but still better than 800-X. Consistency in how you throw the powder charges is pretty important with Blue Dot.

Power Pistol is easy to use, but will not yield the same velocity as Blue Dot in the heavier bullet weights. (For example, in my loads, I can get 100-150 fps more with 220gr cast bullets with Blue Dot than with Power Pistol, before pressure signs show up.)

[CanyonMan]

Blue Dot of course does not meter as well as the much finer flake or ball powders, but still better than 800-X. Consistency in how you throw the powder charges is pretty important with Blue Dot.

Power Pistol is easy to use, but will not yield the same velocity as Blue Dot in the heavier bullet weights. (For example, in my loads, I can get 100-150 fps more with 220gr cast bullets with Blue Dot than with Power Pistol, before pressure signs show up.)



Keep using the BD/LS amigo, it works far better than folks think. I have never suffered night blindness from it at all in the tons of it used in the 10mm. But maybe because i have been used to 'night fire'. I don't see it as a real hinderance. Is there lower flash powders ? Yes ! But BD works great in the 10mm... ;) NOT a 800X fan at all in 10mm. Not many folks going to be blasting away at nite any way. If they do, and are on target, up close and personal like, a couple of rounds will be it any way. ;)




Adios fellas.
be a while before I can come back.
God bless y'all.








CM

[Kegs]

If I am not mistaken, that is a BD flash in your avatar? Amazing that it is that visible in daylight. Imagine it in the dark.
Yep, that's blue dot. The BOOM matches the fireball too!

[Kegs]

If I am not mistaken, that is a BD flash in your avatar? Amazing that it is that visible in daylight. Imagine it in the dark.
Yep, that's blue dot. The BOOM matches the fireball too!

[BuffaloBo]

I tried a 10 oz can of 800x many years ago. The stuff meters HORRIBLY. As per my chrono results, the loadings did not match velocities advertised. Worse yet, I did see a lot of bulged cases from my stock G20 barrel.

Long story short - I cautiously used up the rest of it, and that was the end of it. No more for me.

Much better choices would be: AA#7, AA#9, Longshot, BlueDot, and WSF.

[CanyonMan]

Yep, that's blue dot. The BOOM matches the fireball too!


But Kegs, when will you learn man, that the BOOM makes the bad guy deaf, and the FIRE BALL sets them on fire ! Then one shot is all that is needed from the mighty ten..


Just messin with ya amigo. :tongueout:







CM

[TDC20]

I know of only one reason to use 800-X, and that's to load very hot loads, and to do that, you will have to load beyond any published maximum. That incurs certain risks which many people here, including myself, have accepted. I had to satisfy my curiosity about the performance of 800-X, and it can perform extremely well, but only with unpublished loads. Even at it's best, 800-X is only a very very slight margin better, in my results, than Longshot.

Longshot OTOH, can achieve very good velocities at book loads, better than 800-X at book loads, and it meters better. I should say that Longshot meters, because 800-X does not. Every charge of 800-X should be hand-weighed for safety, especially hot loads. In addition, if you are going to produce moderately warm loads for everyday shooting, I can't think of any reason to use 800-X. There are several powders that can do that better, Longshot, AA#9 and Blue Dot to name three of my top choices.

If I could have only one powder for loading 10mm, it would be Longshot. It works well for everything from 135's (no published data) to 200's, meters decently, and gives excellent velocities in all bullet weights. Stick with Longshot unless you are a velocity junkie looking for the hottest nuclear loads you can make without blowing up your gun (and hopefully you won't blow up your gun in the process).

Good luck and be safe!

[gofastman]

HUGE? HUGE would be blue dot


Hmmm, I need some BlueDot!!! :supergrin:

[nickE10mm]

In my experience, 800X is the "TOP DOG" in velocity from 135gr up through 200gr bullets. No question. HOWEVER~~~~ the stuff doesn't meter. At all. In fact, if you think it does, you could hurt yourself. Since my workups with 800X, I've found several powders that offer VERY close to the same performance and also meter well.

Longshot, Blue Dot, Power Pistol, AA7, AA9 (never tried personally) are the best for stout 10mm loads, depending on bullet weight.

I use HP38/W231 for target range stuff now. I'll be trying WST someday, as well.

[_The_Shadow]

I started loading my 10mm's with Blue Dot loads in March 1990...I have opened my 3rd 5 lb jug even after starting with many 1 lb containers in the begining. I have tried AA#7 and Power Pistol with some success also.

Only recently have I ventured into using the LongShot, 800X and AA#9. The fastest so far has been the 800X with LongShot very near, but as mentioned they are expanding the cases. This leads me to believe that the pressures are starting to exceed the brass case performance. I posted a recent screen shot from Quick Loads in the Hodgdon section using LONGSHOT that shows pressures outside the SAAMI MAP for 10mm. I don't know how accurate it is, but it was much higher than what my Blue Dot loads were. There was no specs for the 800X powder to run the numbers. I wish the data was avalible to see how it measured up!

Hyper speeds are not the only things I look for, 100% reliability for feeding & ejecting is very important, primers that show firing pin smear/shear can lead to debris in the firing pin or strike channel, not good.

Accuracy is the next thing, I'm not talking about 25' or yards, how does it work at 100 yards? Blue Dot has provided me some of the most accurate loads ever. I'm sure I could get there with some of these other powders but I haven't been able to work that much with them yet.

Therefore the only way to know is to work with what you have to fit the paramiters you are comfortable with in your equipment.

[preventec47]

I wanted to read this thread about 800X because I just found out (99 percent sure) that Underwood is using it in his 10mm 165gr hollowpoint ammo. Actually 9.7 grains in the one cartridge I took apart. The reason I have avoided using it even though I bought a pound of it a few years ago is that Hogden sees fit to limit their max loads to 30K psi for 10mm for 155gr and 32K psi for 165gr. loads.

Now they are far from filling the case so why would they pull up short at such low pressures ? That really freaks me out as I feel there must be some hidden Dr Jeckel and Mr Hyde characteristic about it. Plus logically, it is pretty much faster in burn rate than the other popular powders in 10mm use so I dont see the logic in wanting to use it.

I have not looked at a lot of pistol powders but is there any other powder that poured out side by side looks exactly like 800 X ?

[_The_Shadow]

Preventec47, I think that the reason for less that full power loads are two fold...

First; would be exceeding the performance criterior of the bullet design, causing too much expansion or penetration. Most bullets don't have to be driven that hard to be effective at normal hand gun ranges, and they don't expect to people to be shooting beyond 50' much less 100 + yards.

Second; corprate lawyers allowing more leeway to keep people from sueing for mistakes with the use or misuse of the products. They don't know what condition your firearm is in, or the componnets used to construct your ammunition.

Therefore we are responsible for our own actions if we exceed the book suggested data.

Does the powder in the Underwood look like the IMR800X you have? My newest Hodgdon's 2012 Annual shows 9.8 grains with the 155 grain Hornady XTP @ 1350 fps. It is good that you have measured what you have, I like to check several to be sure, then load some up to verify with testing in my own guns just to compare the data.

[preventec47]

Shadow-
as regards your first comment,
What you say in isolation could make sense but not in the context of the entire Hodgdon load data manual. The same bullets are loaded with several different powders in the data so why pick out 800X uniquely to have a very low max pressure ?

Same sentiments for your 2nd statement. Why with 155gr bullet would they stop far short of a full case with a 30K psi max when 4 or 5 other powders have max loads in the 35 to 37K psi range for that similar or same bullet? Either the company thinks something is weird about 800X or there
was an extremely improbable administrative snafu in the publications of the manuals. If we see the same pattern across several manuals, then that rules out admiinistrative
reasons for the strange load data.

Regarding the powder from recently received Underwood 165gr 10mm hollowpoint, I poured the powder in a small pile on a clean white sheet of paper and with a magnifying glass four inches from my face the powder from the cartridge looks exactly like my two year old can of 800X
when poured in a small pile right next to the other..

I might try to check another couple of cartridges but I almost had to destroy my nearly brand new inertial bullet puller to get the bullet to come out. I am not sure one more 10mm disassembly is worth the price of another hollow plastic hammer. I literally was swinging a hard
as I possibly could and it took about ten hits to get the bullet out.

[_The_Shadow]

Well according to the Hodgdon's 2012 Annual which only shows thw 155 grain for 10mm the only other powders which are shown above 1300 are...
SR 4756 @ 1310 fps 34,400
HS-6 @ 1350 fps 35,000
Auto Comp @ 1362 fps 35,700
WSF @ 1320 fps 35,600
Tight Group @ 1315 fps 35,700
Universal 35,200, 231. HP-38, SR7625 are below the 1300 mark but are in the 35,600 to 35,700

Therefore they must feel that the bullet's construction is such that the ceiling for its design is 1350 - 1360 fps and the pressures developed are not as relevent other than showing what they were in the test.

[preventec47]

Shadow,
Your theory is interesting and possible about limiting the velocity of a bullet. Given the SAMMI max pressures I am inclined to believe the mfgrs select a pressure representing the variance in fill accuracy by auto loaders below the sammi max as a published max load. Your theory could explain the 800X data and mine does not. I have always believed their focus was on safe pressures and not bullet
construction induced max velocities. We may never know but
it does really irritate me that they give such sketchy data
although the lawyers probably require it.

[preventec47]

If I could have only one powder for loading 10mm, it would be Longshot. It works well for everything from 135's (no published data) to 200's, meters decently, and gives excellent velocities in all bullet weights.


No surprise as I believe the burn rate of LongShot is between AA #7 and AA#9 which is the sweet spot I was referring to as a hypothetical AA# 8 a while back. Longshot logically makes sense as an optimum powder for 10mm but the very much faster burn rate powders do not at least for maximum performance. For range ammo I think just about any old powder will do as long as you do not exceed max pressures but the velocities are likely to be lower for a given pressure.

I have a brand new can of 800X and PowerPistol both never used that I wish were LongShot. I was not very
well informed when I bought them.

[TDC20]

I have a brand new can of 800X and PowerPistol both never used that I wish were LongShot.

Don't get me wrong, I still think 800-X is the top performing powder for 10mm in terms of velocity and pressure, and that's comparing to AA#9, Bluedot, and Longshot, which are all very good 10mm powders. The only thing I ever ran into with 800-X that I didn't like was with 135's. I got a velocity reversal while working up between 12.3 and 12.5 gr. That made me a bit nervous and I decided to follow McNett's data to get to my target velocity with Longshot and 135's. I ended up using CCI#300 standard primers instead of McNett's data, which used CCI#350 mag primers, and I used quite a bit less powder to achieve better velocity than what he had posted and pressure tested and claimed was below 37,500psi.

As far as the mystique surrounding why Hodgdon doesn't publish 10mm loads above 30,000psi, I think The_Shadow may be on to the reason. Either the bullet performance doesn't make sense to push harder, or Hodgdon just hasn't done any ballistics testing with 10mm and 800-X since taking over IMR's powder line. The reason I say this is because there's evidence to support that 800-X isn't an inherently dangerous powder, and here it is, as published on Hodgdon's web site under 357 Sig data:

Bullet Weight (Gr.) Manufacturer Powder Bullet Diam. C.O.L. Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure

125 GR. SPR GD-HP IMR 800-X .355" 1.135" 10.0C 1438 36,100 PSI

147 GR. HDY XTP IMR 800-X .355" 1.140" 9.0 1317 38,000 PSI

(sorry about the formatting)

So, I don't buy into the "too dangerous to load 800-X to 37,500psi" belief. Or the other common argument, which is that it meters so poorly that they had to scale back on the max loads to provide safety margin for folks who didn't weigh their charges.

To make matters worse, I actually called Hodgdon and the guy there ( I think his name was Mike) told me the reason for the 30,000psi limit on the 10mm data was that larger charges would be compressed, causing fractures to the flakes which would increase burn rate and cause dangerous pressure levels. That was before I found the 357 Sig data, which, miracles of miracles, lists an 800-X compressed load! I don't mind someone telling me they don't know, but I hate people making up BS stories that only fuel ignorance and misinformation. I'm convinced that the reason the published data is only for 30kpsi is that Hodgdon believes there is no financial benefit to re-test 800-X loads for 10mm Auto.

I tried to explain to Hodgdon ballistician Mike that 800-X was potentially the best powder on the market for 10mm if only they would go and run the pressure data and publish it, but I was just wasting my time with this guy. Sometimes I wonder if Hodgdon even cares if the 800-X product survives or not.

[preventec47]

TDC20-
Great idea to compare with other pistol cartridges that have
similar characteristics as 10mm. I have done that a lot
with rifles .. specifically looking for info to help with 8mm Mauser loads..( found that powders for .308 work perfectly
for 8mm Mauser )

In looking for other cartridges to study,
1st I'd say that the Sammi Max pressures be similar
2nd Perhaps as in rifles the bore diameter to available case capacity ratio is important as well. This has a lot to do with the optimum burn rate powder used.( at least in
rifles )

When I get time, I am going to look at all the load data
for other hi pressure pistol calibers and see if we can find
any useful patterns re 800X

The weird thing about 800X to me and the reason it should not be optimum is it's relatively fast burn rate.

We need to define "optimum" and also what you define as
"the top performing powder for 10mm in terms of velocity and pressure"

I have to admit that 800X produces an impressive velocity with 155gr bullets for only 30K psi. It just doesnt logically follow the model for faster burning powders. I try to understand internal ballistics but there are some powders that are claimed to change personalities at different pressures etc. ie the burn rate speeds up or slows down at different pressures. Remember, IMR mostly promotes it
for shotgun use !

Here is how IMR describes it
This large grained flake powder is at its best when used in heavy field loads from 10 gauge to 28 gauge. In handgun cartridges, 800-X performs superbly in cartridges like the 10mm Auto, 357 Magnum and 44 Remington Magnum. Excellent velocity and uniformity translate into top accuracy. ( it is a double based powder )

What really gets me. the 800X burn rate according to Hodgdon
http://www.hodgdon.com/burn-rate.html

They show it as between AA#2 and AA#5 which is pretty dang fast when I am used to using #7 and #9 in all my loads.

We have to be careful the way we define our top performers. In theory the very highest pressures would produce the fastest velocities if the guns did not blow up and the use of the fastest powders in all instances would provide that. So isnt what we are looking for in terms of top performance the powder type and qty that will give us the maximum velocity without exceeding a preset maximum pressure ? We typically achieve that by using slower powders to keep the pressures down. So, if 800X is a fast powder, how can it be one of the best for 10mm ? ? ?

[_The_Shadow]

Last night sitting at the loading bench, cranking out some 10mm's using 9.4 grains of IMR800X under the Hornady 200XTP's i found this little note which is in reference here...as you can see there is a specific working range for the bullets to perform.

When you reach the point where the petals of the HP's fold back and start to roll beyond their maximum diameter you are loosing some of the effectiveness of the larger area...remember this is mostly self defensive ammo in the lighter weights (short barreled guns and reduced velocities to manage recoil and suppressed flash) and more toward hunting on the heavier bullets.


http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j441/_The_Shadow/HornadySpec.jpg

If you don't push hard enough not enough expansion, push too hard over expansion and possible fragmenting and lost bullet weight. This is why I say velocity is not the whole story, rather the impact velocity needs to be within this range for optimal bullet performance.

Look very closely at 800X, besides the large flat flakes, there are tiny identifier flakes (tan in color) about 1/3 the size of the actual powder flakes...Brown Dot! LOL

TDC20 writes Don't get me wrong, I still think 800-X is the top performing
powder for 10mm in terms of velocity and pressure, and that's comparing to AA#9,
Bluedot, and Longshot, which are all very good 10mm powders.

I got my start with Blue Dot using it for 12Ga shotshells 1 1/4 oz leadshot @ 1300fps to hunt ducks with and quickly learned just how versatile it was for 357Mag/38Spl, 44Mag/spl and then 10mm, 9mm, 40S&W, 9x25Dillon and 357Sig...it also works as a reduced loads for rifle applications for my 30-30 and 30'06 with cast bullets. I still love Blue Dot for all it brings to the table!

[TDC20]

TDC20-
Great idea to compare with other pistol cartridges that have
similar characteristics as 10mm. I have done that a lot
with rifles .. specifically looking for info to help with 8mm Mauser loads..( found that powders for .308 work perfectly
for 8mm Mauser )

In looking for other cartridges to study,
1st I'd say that the Sammi Max pressures be similar
2nd Perhaps as in rifles the bore diameter to available case capacity ratio is important as well. This has a lot to do with the optimum burn rate powder used.( at least in
rifles )

When I get time, I am going to look at all the load data
for other hi pressure pistol calibers and see if we can find
any useful patterns re 800X

That's an interesting and useful concept, but I would be careful about extrapolating data. My 357 Sig example was to show that 800-X can be safely loaded in some cartridges to 38,000psi, and compressed loads of 800-X are not an automatic no-no, as the Hodgdon ballistician tried to tell me. Just because it's OK in 357 Sig doesn't necessarily mean it's OK in the 10mm, though. If you do find other high pressure 800-X pistol loads, please post them.

The weird thing about 800X to me and the reason it should not be optimum is it's relatively fast burn rate.

We need to define "optimum" and also what you define as
"the top performing powder for 10mm in terms of velocity and pressure"

I have to admit that 800X produces an impressive velocity with 155gr bullets for only 30K psi. It just doesnt logically follow the model for faster burning powders. I try to understand internal ballistics but there are some powders that are claimed to change personalities at different pressures etc. ie the burn rate speeds up or slows down at different pressures. Remember, IMR mostly promotes it
for shotgun use !

Here is how IMR describes it
This large grained flake powder is at its best when used in heavy field loads from 10 gauge to 28 gauge. In handgun cartridges, 800-X performs superbly in cartridges like the 10mm Auto, 357 Magnum and 44 Remington Magnum. Excellent velocity and uniformity translate into top accuracy. ( it is a double based powder )

What really gets me. the 800X burn rate according to Hodgdon
http://www.hodgdon.com/burn-rate.html

They show it as between AA#2 and AA#5 which is pretty dang fast when I am used to using #7 and #9 in all my loads.

I'm not an internal ballistics expert, either, but 800-X, Longshot, Bluedot, and Unique are all good shotgun powders. I think it might be appropriate for there to be 2 different burn rate charts for shotgun/pistol powders. I would like to know how well the characteristics of burn rates compare when pushing an ounce plus lead shot down a 12ga. bore at 10,000-12,500psi, to pushing a 180gr .40" bullet down a 5 inch barrel at 35,000psi. Something tells me that different shotgun powders are going to compare differently in burn rate when the same powders are used in pistol applications. Whoever put together the burn rate chart did so from data or experience, but several of the choices could be argued. I only have experience with loading about 20 or so powders on that chart, but I'm quite familiar with RE-15 and IMR-4064, and I would argue that RE-15 is faster than IMR-4064, but not by much.

We have to be careful the way we define our top performers. In theory the very highest pressures would produce the fastest velocities if the guns did not blow up and the use of the fastest powders in all instances would provide that. So isnt what we are looking for in terms of top performance the powder type and qty that will give us the maximum velocity without exceeding a preset maximum pressure ? We typically achieve that by using slower powders to keep the pressures down. So, if 800X is a fast powder, how can it be one of the best for 10mm ? ? ?

I agree. Despite what my results with 800-X are, Taterhead, CanyonMan, and BuffaloBo have not had good experiences with it, so it's obviously not the same for every gun or barrel. The ideal powder would be one that quickly rose to 37,500psi and remained at that pressure until the bullet left the barrel. If you could find that powder, we would be doubling the highest velocities and 4X muzzle energy you see posted on this forum.

[preventec47]

Curiously IMR website load data chart contains no data for 357mag for 800X powder even though 357mag was included in the description profile that the 800X was an excellent choice for 357mag. So I called IMR and asked for explanation and they said screwup but they had 800X load data for five 357mag bullet weights and the data is being mailed to me. I will share when I receive. The important thing when we assume the data is good and contains reliable pressure and velocity info is to note relative performance in other known powders with identical bullet. In the 357sig and 44 rem mag I focus on the 800X data vs Longshot data for the same bullet weight.
It would seem to me that other calibers that we could learn from if 800X data is available would be the 327 magnum, 41 magnum, 38 Super in addition to the already mentioned 44 mag and 357 mag.

[preventec47]

Pending the arrival of new 357mag 800X data from Hodgdon,
I think the 327 Federal Magnum offers the best study platform because of being a relatively new cartridge, we should believe the test data is likewise newer and obtained on modern equipment etc. in PSI and not CUP units etc.

Take a look at the attached images of excerpts taken from the Hodgdon load data tables for 327 Federal Magnum.
Noteworthy is the fact that the Saami max for this cartridge is 45K psi so some of the data shown is in the higher pressure ranges that some in our group wish to explore. Look for relationships between 800X and other powders and the velocities and pressures vs amount of powder. Longshot jumps out at at me first. I believe we can extrapolate from these comparisons over to the 10mm
cartridge

Incidentially, the 357mag load data being sent to me for five bullet weights are all in CUP units telling us that the data is somewhat older.

[tahco gunworks]

Hmmm, I need some BlueDot!!! :supergrin:
I use both BD and Power Pistol.

The flame from PP is twice that of BD, and a hell of a lot louder.

[gofastman]

I use both BD and Power Pistol.

The flame from PP is twice that of BD, and a hell of a lot louder.

really?!? hmmmm :dunno:

Interesting you say that now.


I tried BD in my .44mag, I like it quite a bit.
I called up Alliant to ask about something else, I told the guy I liked the flash BD put out, he said that 2400 should be even flashier.
I own/use 2400, I dont really care for it for some reason, and I certainly have never found it to be near as flashy as my first few BD loads.