I've never seen keyholing this bad before [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : I've never seen keyholing this bad before


fnfalman
01-24-2012, 23:52
This stainless Mini-14 was rented at LAX Firing Range in Los Angeles. It seemed to be fairly new. Ammo was PMC 55-gr ball, standard stuff. From what I've seen in the Ruger website, the rifling is suppose to be 1:9 which can stabilize the 55-gr load.

This is the worst keyholing I've seen.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f308/fnfalman/LAX%20Range%20with%20Ming%20Lim/LAXRangewithMingLim014.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f308/fnfalman/LAX%20Range%20with%20Ming%20Lim/LAXRangewithMingLim013.jpg

RedHaze
01-24-2012, 23:58
:wow: Holy cow!

That's crazy. I wonder what the bore looks like...

12131
01-24-2012, 23:59
Perfect shapes. Interesting.

Truffle8Shuffle
01-25-2012, 00:03
What distance were you shooting at? And yeah, there probably isn't much rifling left in that barrel.

I joked with my buddy when he was issued a Mini-14 as his duty rifle that he should expect MOA, Minute of A-Team, accuracy out of it. He asked what I meant and I said he won't be able to hit anyone but every car or oil drum he hits will explode on impact.

fnfalman
01-25-2012, 00:06
Distance was 15-yds.

The gun seems to be fairly new so while I didn't stick a bore light down the muzzle, I find it hard to believe that the rifling is that worn out.

427
01-25-2012, 00:12
Bad crown?

Adjuster
01-25-2012, 00:12
Fairly accurate, nice pattern.


/

Zombie Steve
01-25-2012, 00:20
Bullets are out of spec too small in diameter or the bore is out of spec too big. One of the two.

Foxtrotx1
01-25-2012, 00:38
Dude, that perfect for home defense.

Breadman03
01-25-2012, 06:38
The good news is you destroyed his carotid artery!

BUG'S
01-25-2012, 06:45
It's a Rugler. :tongueout:

Bob Hafler
01-25-2012, 08:01
Bad Barrel, Bad ammo, or both. My Mini 14 580 ranch at 100yds even using a spotting scope there hard to see.

DonD
01-25-2012, 08:11
Certainly highly abnormal.

While the best Minis cannot equal the accuracy of the best ARs, newer, heavier barreled Minis are decently accurate.

My Mini 30 is 1.5 MOA or slightly better off of the bench and that's not unusual. Don

Glockrunner
01-25-2012, 08:40
Crazy funny dude!
and some serious replies too

Three-Five-Seven
01-25-2012, 08:42
Perfect shapes. Interesting.

That's what I was thinking.

Troll meter reading at 6.84.

SPIN2010
01-25-2012, 08:49
Bullets are out of spec too small in diameter or the bore is out of spec too big. One of the two.

Bad crown?


I am with these two assessments. I have seen bad crowns do some very strange things ... never seen a rifle bore that bad though. :dunno:

KarlThomas
01-25-2012, 09:12
Are you positive you didn't run up to the target and stab it several times with a bayonet?

arclight610
01-25-2012, 09:22
That's what I was thinking.

Troll meter reading at 6.84.

The one by the neck is a little shorter than the rest.

ronin.45
01-25-2012, 09:39
I've seen keyholing like that from 22lr but never a 223.

b_oglethorpe
01-25-2012, 09:44
I have to say nice grouping on your part buddy.

Mayhem like Me
01-25-2012, 10:09
You can see where he taped the little bullet cut outs to the target....

fnfalman
01-25-2012, 10:11
Bad crown?

I didn't think about that one. Maybe a bad crown, or a renter may have dropped the muzzle down hard against the concrete floor.

Bullets are out of spec too small in diameter or the bore is out of spec too big. One of the two.

I doubt that it's the bullets that were the problem. Forty rounds were shot through the Mini-14 and they all looked like that. The other sixty rounds were shot from a SW AR-15 (also rental) and they were just fine.

fnfalman
01-25-2012, 10:16
That's what I was thinking.

Troll meter reading at 6.84.

You can see where he taped the little bullet cut outs to the target....

Yeah, I'm paying $18/hr at the range so that I can cut & tape sideway bullets into targets so that I can bash a Ruger Mini-14.:upeyes:

M2 Carbine
01-25-2012, 10:18
I get keyholes like that when using 55 grain FMJ BT bullets in my 5.7 Johnson M1 Carbine. The long bullet won't stabilize in the Carbine.

PMC is good ammo. I doubt it's the ammo.


You can see where he taped the little bullet cut outs to the target....
That's not tape. The paper is torn. Common for that kind of hole.

If fnfalman says it happened, it happened.

Zombie Steve
01-25-2012, 11:19
I doubt that it's the bullets that were the problem. Forty rounds were shot through the Mini-14 and they all looked like that. The other sixty rounds were shot from a SW AR-15 (also rental) and they were just fine.

If the crown isn't obviously damaged, it's time to slug the bore.

fnfalman
01-25-2012, 11:23
If the crown isn't obviously damaged, it's time to slug the bore.

It's a rental gun, so I don't really care what the range will do with it. I told the employees and showed them the target.

I just thought that it was an interesting experience to share.

Zombie Steve
01-25-2012, 11:30
Sorry, I caught that after I posted.

Aceman
01-25-2012, 14:01
Don't shoot .223 in a Mini 30...

Adjuster
01-25-2012, 14:19
Yeah, I'm paying $18/hr at the range so that I can cut & tape sideway bullets into targets so that I can bash a Ruger Mini-14.:upeyes:


Spend your money however you want to, you earned it. :rofl:



/

USDefender
01-25-2012, 14:29
Ammo was PMC 55-gr ball, standard stuff.

Was the ammo yours (store bought), or did you buy it from the range? I've seen a range 'reload' their own in formerly 'store bought' ammo cases, (and then force the shooters to buy it in order to shoot there), only to screw the ammo up royally... (i.e. primer & bullet, but no powder; etc.)

If the ammo was store-bought, then I'm with the 'damaged crown/shot-out bore/rusted-to-hell rifling' crowd.

gator378
01-25-2012, 14:36
This stainless Mini-14 was rented at LAX Firing Range in Los Angeles. It seemed to be fairly new. Ammo was PMC 55-gr ball, standard stuff. From what I've seen in the Ruger website, the rifling is suppose to be 1:9 which can stabilize the 55-gr load.

This is the worst keyholing I've seen.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f308/fnfalman/LAX%20Range%20with%20Ming%20Lim/LAXRangewithMingLim014.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f308/fnfalman/LAX%20Range%20with%20Ming%20Lim/LAXRangewithMingLim013.jpg

It is a Ruger. I am NOT a Ruger fan and no longer have any of their products as I finally sold the two off. I consider their kit guns. Buy one for x amount and pay x amount to get it to work correctly.

Bren
01-25-2012, 14:40
Yeah, I'm paying $18/hr at the range so that I can cut & tape sideway bullets into targets so that I can bash a Ruger Mini-14.:upeyes:

Heck, if I wanted to bash a Mini-14, I'd just save the money and point out that it's a Ruger product.:rofl:

fnfalman
01-25-2012, 14:50
Was the ammo yours (store bought), or did you buy it from the range? I've seen a range 'reload' their own in formerly 'store bought' ammo cases, (and then force the shooters to buy it in order to shoot there), only to screw the ammo up royally... (i.e. primer & bullet, but no powder; etc.)

If the ammo was store-bought, then I'm with the 'damaged crown/shot-out bore/rusted-to-hell rifling' crowd.

It was PMC ammo fresh out of the shipping case. Like I said, sixty rounds through a SW Mattel Toy without an issue and then when we traded it for the Mini-14, the keyholing happened.

Heck, if I wanted to bash a Mini-14, I'd just save the money and point out that it's a Ruger product.:rofl:

So true.:rofl:

fnfalman
01-25-2012, 14:51
Spend your money however you want to, you earned it. :rofl:



/

That's for damn sure. I'd be spending my money on buying drinks to get college chicks drunk instead of on paper, scissor and tapes to make an Mini-14 look bad. I don't think that it needs any additional help from me in that department.

DonD
01-25-2012, 16:00
I've seen keyholing like that from 22lr but never a 223.

I also have a Ruger No. 1 in .458 Win Mag that is quite accurate, just over a MOA off the bench for as long as you can stand the recoil.

It does, however, NOT like lead slugs. It frequently shoots keyholes with cast slugs and usually leaves an ugly mess of leading. So, I've stopped shooting cast and will only reload jacketed slugs. Don

Berto
01-25-2012, 16:18
I love how someone shot holes in the rifle rest.

gruntmedik
01-25-2012, 16:31
Not trying to insult your intelligence, so don't take it that way, but are you sure they didn't hand you a Mini-Thirty?

vtbluegrass
01-25-2012, 16:42
The only time I have seen keyholing like that was shooting some really soft lead out of my CZ75. Also think the Lee factory crimp die had something to do with swaging my bullets. Either way I stopped using it and it stopped happening.

Bow Commander
01-25-2012, 16:42
They keyholed THAT bad at 15 yards!?!?! That's crazy. Never seen a bullet change direction that quickly.

fnfalman
01-25-2012, 16:45
Not trying to insult your intelligence, so don't take it that way, but are you sure they didn't hand you a Mini-Thirty?

That was my first thought, but no, it was not a Mini-30.

Sierra9
01-25-2012, 16:56
That was my first thought, but no, it was not a Mini-30.


How about a Mini-14 in 6.8 SPC?

fnfalman
01-25-2012, 16:59
How about a Mini-14 in 6.8 SPC?

It said .223 on the receiver.:dunno:

G36's Rule
01-25-2012, 17:36
WOW! That isn't just a little keyhole, that is fullblown tumbling bullet. Just be glad you could get rid of it at the end of the rental.

dsa1115
01-25-2012, 17:38
On the negative side that rifle has a very bad barrel. On the positive side, it sure makes big holes.

WiskyT
01-25-2012, 18:18
If the crown isn't obviously damaged, it's time to slug the bore.

It's time to slug the guy who made the barrel or who dropped it on the floor.

collim1
01-25-2012, 19:32
I get keyholes like that when using 55 grain FMJ BT bullets in my 5.7 Johnson M1 Carbine. The long bullet won't stabilize in the Carbine.

PMC is good ammo. I doubt it's the ammo.



That's not tape. The paper is torn. Common for that kind of hole.

If fnfalman says it happened, it happened.

I agree, I have shot alot of .223 PMC recently and it has been great.

collim1
01-25-2012, 19:35
They keyholed THAT bad at 15 yards!?!?! That's crazy. Never seen a bullet change direction that quickly.

I agree, I dont believe it. I have seen key-hole before and it looks like a tear in the paper instead of a clean round hole.

Never seen it look like a perfect longways profile of the bullet in the paper.

WiskyT
01-25-2012, 19:42
I agree, I dont believe it. I have seen key-hole before and it looks like a tear in the paper instead of a clean round hole.

Never seen it look like a perfect longways profile of the bullet in the paper.

I've had them that bad when trying out some lead bullet/powder combinations in 9mm loads.

Bob Hafler
01-25-2012, 20:10
After takeing another look at that pic , those holes do look a little bogus.:whistling:

cdog533
01-25-2012, 21:25
No way that could happen at 15 yards. Unless you had something like a 10 grain plastic bullet or something.

I don't think physics would allow a piece of metal to get that sideways by 15 yards.

Berto
01-25-2012, 21:55
I've seen keyholing like that at 100yrds from a bullet 'overspun'.
Usually underspun looks oblong and not full tilt sideways.

USDefender
01-25-2012, 21:57
I agree, I dont believe it. I have seen key-hole before and it looks like a tear in the paper instead of a clean round hole.

Never seen it look like a perfect longways profile of the bullet in the paper.

I have... and the first time I saw it, I couldn't help but think of Wile E. Coyote making a hole through a wall... But it still happened.


If fnfalman says it happened, it happened.

+1

I'll vouch for him, too. Read enough of his posts since I've been here to know he wouldn't pull a fakery like this... :cool:

mike28w
01-25-2012, 22:05
I once had a Mini 14 that keyholed like that at 25 yards. Brand new, stainless and synthetic.... tried all sorts of factory ammo and weights.

Sent it back to the factory and they sent it back, saying it was "repaired".... it stopped keyholing but would shoot 25 yard groups that were still 10-15" !!! What a POS.....last Ruger, I'll buy....................

BTW...I readily admit that not all Mini's shoot like that, but it wasn't real comforting to have one that did and Ruger couldn't care less.....

W.E.G.
01-25-2012, 22:11
That pic is classic keyhole.

It doesn't take very far for the bullets to get sideways.

This from a FAL with 13" barrel.
(sorry for the magazine foul)

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/rifle%20pics/FAL/shorty2smaller.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/rifle%20pics/FAL/keyhole2.jpg

USDefender
01-25-2012, 22:39
I am a Ruger fan (I own a P95 and a Security Six, both of which are accurate as hell and neither of which have ever let me down). Even so, I seriously dislike the Mini. I've shot two in my life and both were at least as accurate as the M-16s I shot in the service--we were 'popping' crows at about 150-200 feet with one.

Problem was, it jammed so badly, it couldn't get through a whole mag. Good for the crows, bad for us... The other belongs to a friend of mine, and it seems to give him good service. And, it didn't jam on me at all the one time I shot it. Still, I figure that for the price Ruger Co. asks for them (currently $881.oo for the basic 'Ranch Rifle'), not to mention the price of factory mags, I'll probably never own one.

Rather have an SKS that's still less than half the price, or else an AK that's a couple hundred less. :dunno:

cdog533
01-25-2012, 23:11
I guess it's possible then. Maybe the barrel twist with that ammo just destabilized it.

A lot of us still are waiting for the punch line in this thread and hoping that is fake.

fnfalman
01-25-2012, 23:18
For the naysayers, what did I fake it for?

So that I can get my post counts up?

So that I can lambast Ruger and foist another gun because I'm a secret gun distributor?

FLIPPER 348
01-25-2012, 23:26
After takeing another look at that pic , those holes do look a little bogus.:whistling:




....a little!!

427
01-25-2012, 23:53
Looks like keyholing to me.

I'm having a difficult time trying to figure out why someone would take the time and effort to fake that.

Century had Tantals that keyholed.

Century arms AK74 Keyholing, what it looks like. - YouTube

Lior
01-26-2012, 00:15
Very educational thread. Thanks for posting, fnfalman.

fnfalman
01-26-2012, 00:38
This is the guy that actually shot the rifle. I threw a few rounds through it too, but the photo was taken while he was shooting the Mini14.

I only snapped a couple of photos with my camera. I asked him to see if I took any more photos of this phenomenon with his camera, and if so then to send some to me.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f308/fnfalman/LAX%20Range%20with%20Ming%20Lim/MingwMini14.jpg

hardbargin
01-26-2012, 09:20
has no rifling :embarassed:

hardbargin
01-26-2012, 09:24
Don't shoot .223 in a Mini 30...

come on maaaaaaaaaaaaan!:rofl:

snwbrdr435
01-26-2012, 09:35
Did anyone else notice the silhouette target is of someones back?

ArmoryDoc
01-26-2012, 12:58
We have a duty Mini at work that I've red tagged for factory service because of that. The gun is shot out. It keyholes just like the pics at 25 yds.

12131
01-26-2012, 13:18
This is the guy that actually shot the rifle. I threw a few rounds through it too, but the photo was taken while he was shooting the Mini14.

I only snapped a couple of photos with my camera. I asked him to see if I took any more photos of this phenomenon with his camera, and if so then to send some to me.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f308/fnfalman/LAX%20Range%20with%20Ming%20Lim/MingwMini14.jpg
Man, even with the eyes whited out, that guy looks like my cousin. I'm serious.:shocked:

redbaron007
01-26-2012, 13:18
For the naysayers, what did I fake it for?

So that I can get my post counts up?

So that I can lambast Ruger and foist another gun because I'm a secret gun distributor?

Well.....all the post I've seen you make, I thought they were lies!! So what's not say this is too!! :rofl:

There are always naysayers.

I've seen this happen, although at 50 yards. For some, just because they have never seen it personally, will always call BS. I'm betting on the gun being the problem. Glad you didn't buy it!

:wavey:

red

Al Czervik
01-26-2012, 14:28
Wow, I wouldn't have thought that to be possible at 15 yards.

I had a NIB Springfield 1911 V-10 that did that was nearly that bad when it actually worked.

Batesmotel
01-26-2012, 15:44
Odd they all hit 90 degrees off axis. I would expect tumbling rounds to hit at different angles through the rotation.

Bren
01-27-2012, 06:49
This is the guy that actually shot the rifle. I threw a few rounds through it too, but the photo was taken while he was shooting the Mini14.

I only snapped a couple of photos with my camera. I asked him to see if I took any more photos of this phenomenon with his camera, and if so then to send some to me.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f308/fnfalman/LAX%20Range%20with%20Ming%20Lim/MingwMini14.jpg

So, more importantly...did his mother pick out that sweater...when he was 11?:rofl:

mgs
01-27-2012, 07:20
I tried shooting factory 55g V-Max or BT 221 Fireball at 25yds and it did that in my XP....to long of a bullet for a 10" barrel. Works just fine w 45, 50 and standard 55g bullets. I'd say the barrel is just shot out real bad.

Glockrunner
01-27-2012, 07:24
So, more importantly...did his mother pick out that sweater...when he was 11?:rofl:

What a good eye!
She did pick it out and gave to his 16 year old sister to wear for 2 years before it was handed down to him. She was well endowed.
:rofl::tongueout::rofl:

GTFord1
01-27-2012, 07:24
That's what I was thinking.

Troll meter reading at 6.84.

Get real. I've seen keyholing just like that before.

You people calling this a troll are dense. Keyholing like this isn't all THAT rare, I've seen it numerous times.

DonD
01-27-2012, 08:32
I am

Problem was, it jammed so badly, it couldn't get through a whole mag. Good for the crows, bad for us... The other belongs to a friend of mine, and it seems to give him good service. And, it didn't jam on me at all the one time I shot it. Still, I figure that for the price Ruger Co. asks for them (currently $881.oo for the basic 'Ranch Rifle'), not to mention the price of factory mags, I'll probably never own one.

Rather have an SKS that's still less than half the price, or else an AK that's a couple hundred less. :dunno:

Well.....you must be an exception or got a rare turkey of a rifle, one of the things the Minis are seldom accused of is a lack of reliability. Don

Big Bird
01-27-2012, 08:34
I've seen .308 keyholes in the 1,000 yard target at rifle matches. Usually by guys shooting the old 168 Sierra Match king out of a M1A. It goes subsonic somewhere around 900 yards and destabilizes.

Man, where's WalterGA when you need him. He'd have a ball with this post. As I recall his pet name for the Mini-14 was "Boat Anchor".

Old School
01-27-2012, 08:38
+1 on vouching for the internet integrity of fnfalman. I've been a member here for a good stretch and don't ever recall him trolling in any way. In fact, if I got a PM from him, M2 Carbine, 264 magnum, herr glock, steve koski and a few others indicating that I was out of line - I'd be embarrassed beyond words.

That being said...I am unable to address hanging with a guy wearing that sweater....

436
01-27-2012, 08:41
This stainless Mini-14 was rented at LAX Firing Range in Los Angeles. It seemed to be fairly new. Ammo was PMC 55-gr ball, standard stuff. From what I've seen in the Ruger website, the rifling is suppose to be 1:9 which can stabilize the 55-gr load.

This is the worst keyholing I've seen.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f308/fnfalman/LAX%20Range%20with%20Ming%20Lim/LAXRangewithMingLim014.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f308/fnfalman/LAX%20Range%20with%20Ming%20Lim/LAXRangewithMingLim013.jpg

If that target hasn't been photo shopped; someone needs to call Ruger, that rifle shoots like its missing its rifling. Or the bores rifling was cut way to large. Mic the barrel.
436

amlim
01-27-2012, 10:17
What a good eye!
She did pick it out and gave to his 16 year old sister to wear for 2 years before it was handed down to him. She was well endowed.
:rofl::tongueout::rofl:

Guys, sorry about the bad looking sweater that ruined the picture. I am the guy in the picture and what fnfalman said is true. i fired the rifle and the keyholing was not faked.

By the way, the sweater usually looks okay. Don't know what happened that day. Maybe my camera was trying to embarass me. :tongueout:

436
01-27-2012, 12:16
Guys, sorry about the bad looking sweater that ruined the picture. I am the guy in the picture and what fnfalman said is true. i fired the rifle and the keyholing was not faked.

By the way, the sweater usually looks okay. Don't know what happened that day. Maybe my camera was trying to embarass me. :tongueout:

Amlim,
Well since it seems it's not a flake... :supergrin: Have you thought about emailing Ruger and PMC ammo and asking their thoughts on the matter? Because one of them have a problem they might want too look into on the quality control line.
Cameras will do that....:embarassed:
436

fnfalman
01-27-2012, 12:51
Amlim,
Well since it seems it's not a flake... :supergrin: Have you thought about emailing Ruger and PMC ammo and asking their thoughts on the matter? Because one of them have a problem they might want too look into on the quality control line.
Cameras will do that....:embarassed:
436

The gun belongs to the gun shop/range, and not to us. We told the shop about it, showed them the target. After that, it's out of our hands.

raven11
01-27-2012, 13:32
+1 on vouching for the internet integrity of fnfalman. I've been a member here for a good stretch and don't ever recall him trolling in any way. In fact, if I got a PM from him, M2 Carbine, 264 magnum, herr glock, steve koski and a few others indicating that I was out of line - I'd be embarrassed beyond words...

+1 for Fnfalman , he always offers great advice to new gun owners. Why would he lie? he posted photos and had another member there.

I think some gun owners are too emotionally attached to their guns to think anything could go wrong.

Batesmotel
01-27-2012, 16:22
Any report on the condition of the bore?

Paul53
01-27-2012, 16:28
Bet it's a test bed carbine for gen5 Glocks, trying to fix the brass to the face issue?:whistling:

fnfalman
01-27-2012, 16:31
Any report on the condition of the bore?

Nope. I don't plan on going to that shooting range just to look at the bore.

catalyst686
01-27-2012, 16:31
Holy! I've never seen anything like that.

amlim
01-28-2012, 09:09
+1 on vouching for the internet integrity of fnfalman. I've been a member here for a good stretch and don't ever recall him trolling in any way. In fact, if I got a PM from him, M2 Carbine, 264 magnum, herr glock, steve koski and a few others indicating that I was out of line - I'd be embarrassed beyond words.

That being said...I am unable to address hanging with a guy wearing that sweater....

Well, fnfalman is a cool and generous guy.

He was willing to look past the yucky sweater... :tongueout:

pennlineman
01-28-2012, 10:39
I've seen a M-16 keyhole like that at close range. The crown was damaged with rust and pitting on an old black bore barrel. Other guns I've seen do this didn't get that sideways until further out. At closer ranges the hole takes on an oval shape in most cases.

Andrewsky
01-28-2012, 11:43
I call bs.


Someone must've helped you upload the pictures.

Restless28
01-28-2012, 12:03
Fnfalman is one of the most solid members on GT. He knows his guns, bikes, and cars.

If he says it happened, it happened.

E-2-E
01-28-2012, 13:45
Fnfalman is one of the most solid members on GT. He knows his guns, bikes, and cars.

If he says it happened, it happened.

Also "Chicks"

Gdirty5
01-28-2012, 14:53
I had a 22lr key hole like that from 25 ft, looked exactly like it was hitting the paper sideways. It was my first time using blazer 22lr, and after a few hundred rounds the barrel was all leaded up. Cleaned it, and it has been fine since.

wavetrain75
01-28-2012, 15:24
My ole' man always told me, "Son, never trust a man with a KTM." That's served me pretty good so far.

adamg01
01-28-2012, 15:33
That is a better pattern than what I could get out of my father's Mini-14. I would rather buy three Sks's and have three better rifles than a Mini-14. If the rifle wasn't made in America it would get a lot less respect on this forum.

MedicOni
01-28-2012, 16:56
I swear that almost looks like the range at Calibers :p

fnfalman
01-29-2012, 01:43
I swear that almost looks like the range at Calibers :p

I believe I mentioned "LAX Firing Range"...

Yes, the setup does look like Caliber Indoors Range.

skanless
01-29-2012, 01:46
Wow..... That thing needs a new barrel.

MedicOni
01-29-2012, 12:55
I believe I mentioned "LAX Firing Range"...

Yes, the setup does look like Caliber Indoors Range.

Whoops, my apologies, I must have missed that line