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Shenron
01-25-2012, 01:26
So, I have recently landed a new job. I am not working as a Bank Protection Officer (Private Sector) and in about 15 days I am going to pick up mt brand new S&W Model 64-8. Due to company protocol and all of that jazz, the .38 Special +p is the required round which makes me a little nervous because I am used to carrying my Glock 22 at my last job. Anyway, with all of that being said I have heard rumors that we are issued 158 gr. Hydra-Shoks but I did some research and I think they stopped making them and I have heard a lot of bad things about them plugging in heavy clothing. Checking the federal web-site I found this, which is in the 129 gr.

http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/handgun.aspx?id=336

Doing some more research at my local gun store I found the following;

Speer Gold Dots 135 gr.

Winchester PDX1 130 gr. (Which I bought to boxes of because the Gold Dots were only in the short barrel version).

Anyway, after doing some research and asking around a lot of people highly recommend the Cor-Bon 125 gr. Classic HP's.

http://www.shopcorbon.com/Self-Defense-JHP/38-Special-Plus-P-125gr-CORBON-Self-Defense-JHP/SD38125-20/100/Product

Any opinions on which would be top dog?

cowboywannabe
01-25-2012, 01:33
the round isnt going to matter much if your shot placement is true.

MinnesnowtaWild
01-25-2012, 02:50
Winchester PDX1 should work just fine.

Shenron
01-25-2012, 09:23
True at shot placement. It is why I practice my ass off and run through the ICE course as well.

Ya, I am glad the PDX1 will work just fine. Though, does anyone have experience with those Corbons?

I would have purchased a Ruger GP100 but due to the BSIS I would have to have a .357 on my card as well and that would mean I would have to find time to requal and wait another 6-8 weeks for a new permit.

NG VI
01-25-2012, 09:45
Corbon cartridges are expensive, frequently loaded with bullets that don't hold together very well, and they seem to be very big on velocity alone as a wounding mechanism in low-velocity handgun rounds.

PDX or Gold Dots are better options. And I wouldn't worry about the difference between short barrel and ordinary Gold Dots, won't be much different in any normal gun.

Quarter Tank
01-25-2012, 11:17
a wheel gun, huh. too bad you cant get them to say .357 sig

BuffaloBo
01-25-2012, 15:37
So, I have recently landed a new job. I am not working as a Bank Protection Officer (Private Sector)...

If you're not working as a Bank Protection Officer, what kind of job DID you get? :whistling: :tongueout:

collim1
01-25-2012, 18:24
.38spl+p out of a 4" revolver is a solid performer. The hydra-shock is an old round but will still do its job IMO.

Shenron
01-25-2012, 22:20
If you're not working as a Bank Protection Officer, what kind of job DID you get? :whistling: :tongueout:

Haha, that was a mistype. It is an interesting gig.

@NG VI: I would have never thought that about Corbon, I figured with that they are charging for their product I kind of assumed that they would not have separation issues. I know they are big on Velocity which is hit and miss. I was looking at their DPX rounds but 110 grains seems a little light to me.

As far as the PDX1's goes, I figure they are their Ranger Bonded line just repackaged, high price, in 20 round boxes, and sold to the civilian market which is irrelevant in my case, I can order directly from most companies due to my permits, etc. Some companies are asses though.

@Collim1: Thanks, that makes me feel better a long with all of the performance data I have found regarding the .38spl+p in a 4incher.

paragon1
01-25-2012, 22:55
The SB Gold Dots work really well out of a 4" barrel. You are not exceeding the design velocity. The Gold Dot SB 135 gr 357 Magnum uses the exact same bullet at 1000-1150 fps. The 4" .38 will put you in that velocity window.

Shenron
01-26-2012, 00:49
The SB Gold Dots work really well out of a 4" barrel. You are not exceeding the design velocity. The Gold Dot SB 135 gr 357 Magnum uses the exact same bullet at 1000-1150 fps. The 4" .38 will put you in that velocity window.

Really? Holy Hell! I did not know that. Is it that the Gold Dot Short Barrel 135gr. .38spl. +p is loaded hotter for the SB?

kmrcstintn
01-26-2012, 19:09
just curious...if the company issues ammo to you then why are you buying your own? if you want some extra ammo for practice/sight adjustment why buy different stuff than they issue? anyhoo...

the Speer Gold Dot short barrel load can cross the threshold into the world of snub-nosed revolvers, for which it was originally designed; the Winchester PDX-1 is a good bonded load and would serve you well; I know very little about Corbon since I do not shoot it; the HydraShok is an older load, but well known;

here's a brain burner for ya...some of the most respected loads are the lowest tech ones:

Federal Nyclad 125gr lead hollowpoint non +p and the 'FBI load' which is a 158gr lead semiwadcutter hollowpoint +p (Remington, Winchester, Buffalo Bore load them)

forgot...the Speer Gold Dot 135gr short barrel in .357 mag are downloaded for recoil control; they are not standard velocity...nothing wrong with that, but they do NOT represent .357 magnum's standard velocity

collim1
01-26-2012, 21:08
just curious...if the company issues ammo to you then why are you buying your own? if you want some extra ammo for practice/sight adjustment why buy different stuff than they issue? anyhoo...

the Speer Gold Dot short barrel load can cross the threshold into the world of snub-nosed revolvers, for which it was originally designed; the Winchester PDX-1 is a good bonded load and would serve you well; I know very little about Corbon since I do not shoot it; the HydraShok is an older load, but well known;

here's a brain burner for ya...some of the most respected loads are the lowest tech ones:

Federal Nyclad 125gr lead hollowpoint non +p and the 'FBI load' which is a 158gr lead semiwadcutter hollowpoint +p (Remington, Winchester, Buffalo Bore load them)

forgot...the Speer Gold Dot 135gr short barrel in .357 mag are downloaded for recoil control; they are not standard velocity...nothing wrong with that, but they do NOT represent .357 magnum's standard velocity

I agree, nothing wrong with the Nyclad or the 158g+P LSWCHP, both are proven loads.

Shenron
01-31-2012, 01:14
Ya, the more research I have been doing that more the 158g+P LSWCHP keeps coming up. I have herd amazing things about the Remington version.

Has anyone shot the buffalo bore stuff? How hot is it? I will be using a S&W Model 64.

How bad is leading when using these? How many rounds can you shoot without cleaning?

Oh, can you still get the ones from federal that are either lacquered or plastic coated to prevent leading?

I am impressed with the pdx round as well.

I have not been able to find the 158 gr. Hydra-shoks anywhere, I am not sure if they are even made.

cowboywannabe
01-31-2012, 09:32
Ya, the more research I have been doing that more the 158g+P LSWCHP keeps coming up. I have herd amazing things about the Remington version.Has anyone shot the buffalo bore stuff? How hot is it? I will be using a S&W Model 64.

How bad is leading when using these? How many rounds can you shoot without cleaning?

Oh, can you still get the ones from federal that are either lacquered or plastic coated to prevent leading?

I am impressed with the pdx round as well.

I have not been able to find the 158 gr. Hydra-shoks anywhere, I am not sure if they are even made.

stop right there. you will beat yourself up trying to out do that round.

performance and price and on the shelf in many places. why are you still searching?

itslucky
01-31-2012, 10:02
Nyclad or the 158g+P LSWCHP

Shenron
01-31-2012, 22:12
So, I have been on a search for the 158gr. +p LSWCHP for a few days and I have not been able to find them online, locally, or at LE distributors. I have just sent e-mails to Federal and Remington.

My backup choice are the buffalo bore standard pressure (them seem to operate at above everyone else +ps but I might get a single box of the +p just to test them out). My only thing with this choice is the price for a box of 20.

Anyway, does anyone have any sources I have missed to acquire these rounds?

barth
02-01-2012, 00:58
I'd run either -
Winchester PDX1 130 38+P
Speer GDHP 125 38+P

Either one is fine.
Try both and see if you and your gun favor one over the other.
I run PDX1 357 Magnums in my S&W 640-1
Prefer it to GDHP 357 regular or Short Barrel.
http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/images/Winchester%2038%20Special%20130gr%20+P%20PDX1%20Bonded%20JHP.jpg

Mattkcc
02-01-2012, 15:39
Your going to have to carry both your issued duty weapon and issued ammo. If you get caught with non-duty ammo you will likely be fired. If you have to shoot someone in the line of duty with non issue ammo you will have serious problems. Your shooting will be against your companies policy which can cause serious problems in court. Your duty ammo is fine and will serve you well the police have been using it for many years and it works. You have to remember your job is to keep honest people honest, the last thing you want is a shoot out in a bank.

NG VI
02-01-2012, 16:02
Really? Holy Hell! I did not know that. Is it that the Gold Dot Short Barrel 135gr. .38spl. +p is loaded hotter for the SB?


Neither one of them is particularly hot, the .357 short barrel load is a very mild .357, and it's important to remember the wide range of bullet weights+velocities that are commonly found in both .38 and .357 loadings. The .38 load is a pretty ordinary warm .38, there are certainly hotter loads in the world, and many cooler ones.

The DPX does hold together extremely well, but otherwise Cor-bon's M.O. is high velocity for a given caliber and bullets that are just barely holding themselves together.

I also agree that while at work, you will not have any leeway in regards to what is in your revolver.

Shenron
02-01-2012, 22:31
Your going to have to carry both your issued duty weapon and issued ammo. If you get caught with non-duty ammo you will likely be fired. If you have to shoot someone in the line of duty with non issue ammo you will have serious problems. Your shooting will be against your companies policy which can cause serious problems in court. Your duty ammo is fine and will serve you well the police have been using it for many years and it works. You have to remember your job is to keep honest people honest, the last thing you want is a shoot out in a bank.

Oh ya, I am completely aware of all of this and I was not going to do anything underneath the table. I have been in negotiations with the big dogs because they are looking new ammo because federal does not make those specific loads anymore so I have been putting together some paper work for them because they have charged me with doing the foot work.

So, I have got responses back from Remington and Federal. Remington told me that the company does not make the HP semi wad cutters +p anymore and federal can special order them but it will take around 5-6 months. This is all due to the .38 +p falling out of favor with law enforcement and that popularity of the new bonded loads.

Oh, is there any preference over the 125 gr. Gold Dots or the 135 gr. gold dots for the .38+p? What are the main differences?

kmrcstintn
02-05-2012, 03:09
I have not been able to find the 158 gr. Hydra-shoks anywhere, I am not sure if they are even made.

the heaviest Hydrashok for .38's I've heard of is 147gr in a +p+ load; it's not a common load as I've only seen it once at a gunshow

So, I have got responses back from Remington and Federal. Remington told me that the company does not make the HP semi wad cutters +p anymore and federal can special order them but it will take around 5-6 months. This is all due to the .38 +p falling out of favor with law enforcement and that popularity of the new bonded loads.

if Remington drops the 158gr swchp +p they are going to have alot of folks P.O.'ed! Federal dropped the Nyclad for a few decades thinking they had a 'superbullet' with their Hydrashok, but alot of people did NOT want a light 110gr bullet in non +p or deal with a +p in their older revolvers, so a few years ago Federal reintroduced their 125gr non +p Nyclad in .38 spl around the time Taurus came out with their magnesium framed 6-shot snubby in .38 spl (no +p loads)

currently I use Federal Nyclad 125's in my father's S&W 642 most of the time; if I feel that I need a +p (woods walking or scouting in prep for hunting) I use the CCI Blazer (aluminum cased) 125gr +p (it is a low end bonded Speer bullet...not a Gold Dot) or bulk reload 158gr hard cast lead semiwadcutter solids; I am in the phase of choosing a compact semiautomatic for woods walking, scouting, and CCW while archery hunting

Taphius
02-05-2012, 03:27
Ya, the more research I have been doing that more the 158g+P LSWCHP keeps coming up. I have herd amazing things about the Remington version.

Has anyone shot the buffalo bore stuff? How hot is it? I will be using a S&W Model 64.

How bad is leading when using these? How many rounds can you shoot without cleaning?

Oh, can you still get the ones from federal that are either lacquered or plastic coated to prevent leading?

I am impressed with the pdx round as well.

I have not been able to find the 158 gr. Hydra-shoks anywhere, I am not sure if they are even made.

I've shot the Buffalo bore 158s and with what it did to my hands in my snubby I would definitely not want to be on the other side. It felt pretty impressive for 38 special

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