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kave
01-25-2012, 20:09
hey guys. just got my gen4 glock 21. got speer gold dot for carry, but need bulk ammo advice. any luck with cheaper than dirt umc or bvac. also looked at canned heat from georgia arms, but they got mixed reviews. i dont care to pay more for better quality stuff. thanks.

Fire_Medic
01-25-2012, 20:11
If you're going to shoot a to of 45 look into reloading......

Otherwise, opinions will be all over the place on factory ammo. I never had an issue with GA arms before I started reloading, I also like the PMC ammo as well. Fiocchi makes good stuff too but loaded hot, I like it though.

Go shoot and enjoy.

brisk21
01-25-2012, 21:42
Ive never had a problem with Federal or Winchester from Wal-mart. Here is a great price on blazer steel cased ammo that worked great for me in my 1911s. http://www.sgammo.com/product/cci/1000-rd-case-45-auto-acp-230gr-fmj-cci-blazer-cleanfire-ammo-3480

John Eastwood
01-25-2012, 21:49
If you have a .45ACP, you better be reloading. My 1911 likes to eat.

ronin.45
01-25-2012, 22:05
Blazer is great plinking ammo. It's aluminum cased so if you want to get into reloading, it's not for you. Very good ammo for the money though.

agent clark
01-25-2012, 22:09
Search around online for a brand you're comfortable with at the lowest price, but don't forget to check what shipping is. ammoman is always free shipping, many others are only $10 or so.

DannyR
01-25-2012, 22:26
I'd stick with Winchester USA, Blazer and American Eagle. Avoid factory re-manufactured ammo and steel cased imports. Watch Cabelas and Gander Mountain for sales, and always check www.ammoman.com

robin303
01-25-2012, 22:29
http://www.ammoengine.com/find/ammo/.45_ACP

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/index.php/cName/pistol-ammo-45-acp

OrGlocker
01-25-2012, 22:31
One quick question when your done are looking into reloading this brass?

mt920
01-26-2012, 06:21
Congrats!!!!! The Gen4 21 is my favorite pistol and very fun to shoot. As far as ammo, I find the Federal Champion, American Eagle and WWB to fit my economical and quality standards for a good round.

MajorD
01-26-2012, 06:53
economical and regular use of factory 45 are not really in the same sentence. reloading is the long term solution, but in the short term the bottom line is any of the main ammo companies blaster ammo (win white box,federal american eagle, cci blazer-brass or aluminum,rem-umc) will do, understanding bulk bargain ammo is NOT going to give the same level of accuracy or quality control than higher priced match ammo.
Foreign makes like magtech, aguila, privi, fiocchi and pmc are decent too. My take is look locally for sales- my local shop often can match or beat online prices and even beat some of the chain stores. I try to support actual gun shops whenever possible.

MajorD
01-26-2012, 06:55
ps you can spend as little as 15 bucks a box for 45 (give or take) or as much as 50- the level of quality and performance you are willing to pay for is your decision. Honsetly in a glock which is likely to be used exclusively inside 25 yards it doesn't much matter. If you get into a 45 acp target grade gun like a tuned 1911 or smith revolver ammo starts to show big differences in accuracy,especially at 50 yards.

moishlashen
01-26-2012, 07:39
sgammo has a good deal on 45acp Federal American Eagle 230gr range ammo right now-

http://www.sgammo.com/product/speer/50-rd-box-45-gap-speer-lawman-200-grain-tmj-53980


Great family owned company that ships fast and doesn't bend you over on shipping $$$.

F106 Fan
01-26-2012, 09:40
That sgammo .45 in ACP runs about $300/1000. My cost to reload:
Bullets: $124/1000
Primers: $35/1000
Powder: $15/1000

Total $174/1000 and that's for Precision Delta 230 gr FMJ

If I use lead bullets, the price is around $30 less (I can still do better) or $144/1000. I might be able to get it down to $110/1000 with a little smarter shopping.

Saving $150/1000 will buy a lot of reloading equipment. You can get into a pretty nice setup for $750 or so. All you need to do is figure out if you need to reload 5000 bullets over some period of time. Yes, you can get started in reloading for a lot less money but you don't want to. The production rate will be so low that you might never catch up. I want to reload faster than I can load magazines. Of course, reloading takes time.

Richard

byf43
01-26-2012, 09:46
hey guys. just got my gen4 glock 21. got speer gold dot for carry, but need bulk ammo advice. any luck with cheaper than dirt umc or bvac. also looked at canned heat from georgia arms, but they got mixed reviews. i dont care to pay more for better quality stuff. thanks.


For 'range ammo', try some CCI Blazer (either brass case or aluminum) 230 gr FMJ.

The aluminum cased Blazer shoots incredibly well from my old G21 and G30SF.
Very accurate, out of both.

NatchezSS.com
MidwayUSA.com
ammoman.com

brisk21
01-26-2012, 09:49
That sgammo .45 in ACP runs about $300/1000. My cost to reload:
Bullets: $124/1000
Primers: $35/1000
Powder: $15/1000

Total $174/1000 and that's for Precision Delta 230 gr FMJ

If I use lead bullets, the price is around $30 less (I can still do better) or $144/1000. I might be able to get it down to $110/1000 with a little smarter shopping.

Saving $150/1000 will buy a lot of reloading equipment. You can get into a pretty nice setup for $750 or so. All you need to do is figure out if you need to reload 5000 bullets over some period of time. Yes, you can get started in reloading for a lot less money but you don't want to. The production rate will be so low that you might never catch up. I want to reload faster than I can load magazines. Of course, reloading takes time.

Richard


Holy cow thats cheap!! I need to "bite the bullet" and get some equipment.

whoflungdo
01-26-2012, 09:58
Ive never had a problem with Federal or Winchester from Wal-mart. Here is a great price on blazer steel cased ammo that worked great for me in my 1911s. http://www.sgammo.com/product/cci/1000-rd-case-45-auto-acp-230gr-fmj-cci-blazer-cleanfire-ammo-3480


That would be Aluminum cased.. Much easier on the extractors and ejectors than steel cased...

gmp
01-26-2012, 21:26
This last weekend I purchased 500 rounds of WWB 230 grain FMJ for $32 per 100 round bulk pack. I would have purchased more but that is all they had. That is $320 for 1000 rounds of factory loaded ammunition. Not bad at all! GO WAL MART! However, it is not loaded as hot as the American Eagle. Also, if you reload, the Federal Champions are loaded with small pistol primers so reloaders beware. I hope that Federal does not start to do that on their higher quality rounds like others have.

sps
01-26-2012, 22:40
Hey Kave, I also have pair of fat girls,that love to eat that.45.
A gen 3 21 and a para 14.45. I had been shooting blazer brass and winchester
white box and a little bit every once in a while surplus .45 cal match and is it nice !!!! any way it's stashed deeeeeep.
But started shooting sellier & bellot from chech republic and rws from switzerland and both are a little hot (as most eruo ammo is) .
Both are very accurate and extremely clean shooting.
I have been shooting both for a while and a few weeks ago I bought 2 cases of s&b 230 gr. $300.00 each at a gun show. It was sunday at 3:00 pm right at
closing time. Best time to shop at a show.

KJ4GR
01-27-2012, 04:02
That sgammo .45 in ACP runs about $300/1000. My cost to reload:
Bullets: $124/1000
Primers: $35/1000
Powder: $15/1000

Total $174/1000 and that's for Precision Delta 230 gr FMJ




Holy cow thats cheap!! I need to "bite the bullet" and get some equipment.


Just remember, you also need brass. That $174 they are quoting is if they already have 1000 empty shells. Not to mention the time it takes to reload 1000 rounds and time is $$ in my book.

Quarter Tank
01-27-2012, 04:53
Just remember, you also need brass. That $174 they are quoting is if they already have 1000 empty shells. Not to mention the time it takes to reload 1000 rounds and time is $$ in my book.

thats why I'll stick with buying new factory rounds.

imjustron
01-27-2012, 05:02
I buy .45ACP in bulk from Georgia Arms and had zero issues. Of course, my G36 will shoot anything I've fed it...

Glock Master
01-27-2012, 05:11
Congrats on the G21 Gen4.

Gperfection
01-27-2012, 07:10
Just remember, you also need brass. That $174 they are quoting is if they already have 1000 empty shells. Not to mention the time it takes to reload 1000 rounds and time is $$ in my book.

Takes me about 3.5 hours to load a thousand. But it does cost a bit to get going, if you want the equipment to load that fast. You start with a Dillon Square Deal 'B' $380.00 and go from there, then in about 10 or 15 years you find yourself sitting on about $10,000.00 worth of reloading stuff, if your like me. But the best part about it is, on a whim, I can go out and shoot up 3 or 4 hundred rounds in an hour and not feel bad about it. Heck, the .40 S&W I'm loading right now costs me $10.85 per 100 rds. Compare that to Wal-Mart for WWB @ about $30.00 a hundred.

brisk21
01-27-2012, 08:21
That would be Aluminum cased.. Much easier on the extractors and ejectors than steel cased...

Oh yeah, good call on that one.

brisk21
01-27-2012, 08:24
Just remember, you also need brass. That $174 they are quoting is if they already have 1000 empty shells. Not to mention the time it takes to reload 1000 rounds and time is $$ in my book.


Yeah see for me, its the time thats the problem. I could come up with .45 brass pretty easy. How many hours does it take to load up 1000 rounds with a good progressive press? For me, a reloader is more about being able to "make" my own ammo if the stores run empty. Like say, after a big election. I noticed last time that reloading supplies didn't really go dry, and I was wishing I reloaded back then.

HexHead
01-27-2012, 08:47
For me, a reloader is more about being able to "make" my own ammo if the stores run empty. Like say, after a big election. I noticed last time that reloading supplies didn't really go dry, and I was wishing I reloaded back then.

Primers were practically impossible to get for a while.

F106 Fan
01-27-2012, 08:52
Yeah see for me, its the time thats the problem. I could come up with .45 brass pretty easy. How many hours does it take to load up 1000 rounds with a good progressive press?.

On a good progressive press, you can crank out 1000 rounds in a couple of hours. Sure, the rated speed is 1200 rounds per hour (Dillon 1050) and Brian Enos talks about cranking out 1000 in 30 minutes (more or less) but I have never been able to do that. I think they cheat by having primer tubes prefilled.

Nevertheless, on a machine like a Dillon 650 or, better, a Dillon 1050, you can crank them out as fast as you can set a bullet and pull the handle. These machines are so fast that just about the time you get a rhythm going, you are out of primers.

These machines aren't cheap - figure a fully loaded 650 at $1000. But, if you shoot a lot, that money comes back pretty quick. Well under a year...

Of course, if the goal is to simply be able to make ammo during a 'shortage', any press will work.

Richard

F106 Fan
01-27-2012, 09:05
Just remember, you also need brass. That $174 they are quoting is if they already have 1000 empty shells. Not to mention the time it takes to reload 1000 rounds and time is $$ in my book.

You can usually pick up brass but even brand new Starline is only $160/1000. That's $0.16 each. Figure you get at least 10 reloads so you can add 'brass depreciation' to the cost at $0.016/round or $16/1000. Some of my brass is 30 years old and I have no idea how many times it has been loaded. My loads are mid-range so the brass might last forever or until I lose it.

I'm not pushing reloading. I'm only trying to point out alternatives. Frankly, if you only shoot a couple of hundred rounds per month, there's no point in getting started. If a hundred rounds is a big day, Wally World is the way to go.

But if you have 4 people shooting action pistol out of your ammo can, it's easily possible to go through 1000+ rounds a day. Clearly, that won't be every day and fortunately may only happen a couple of times per month. But it's a LOT of ammo at Wally World prices.

Reloading makes no sense if the batches are less than 1000 simply because there is no economy of scale in component purchases. You have to be able to buy primers in lots of 5,000 or 10,000 ($150 to $350 at a time) and bullets in lots of 2000 or so. Powder is best purchased in 8# canisters which for my .45 ACP load is about 11,000 rounds.

Richard

The Boar Buster
01-27-2012, 09:10
BVAC is good ammo. I use a lot of it in my 5.56 and its reloadable brass.
Wal Mart has UMC 250 rd box for 96.00, my 30 sf thinks it is candy.
I may get flamed for saying this but you can get a Lee Load master set for 45 acp for $230.00. With a little tweeking it will spit out lots of good ammo. I have a freind that has one and he can do 300 or 400 rds an hour.
I cant say I have seen him do that but I have seen him do 250 or so rds that fast. The ammo shoots fine from my 30sf

Agent6-3/8
01-27-2012, 09:16
I've never had any problem with WWB, Federal Champion, Rem-UMC, Blazer Brass or Blazer Aluminum. If you really want high quality stuff Asym Precision Ammunition makes top quality stuff, but its quite pricey...

http://store.chencustom.com/45_ACP_Match_Hardball_230_gr_FMJ_s/77.htm

brisk21
01-27-2012, 10:36
On a good progressive press, you can crank out 1000 rounds in a couple of hours. Sure, the rated speed is 1200 rounds per hour (Dillon 1050) and Brian Enos talks about cranking out 1000 in 30 minutes (more or less) but I have never been able to do that. I think they cheat by having primer tubes prefilled.

Nevertheless, on a machine like a Dillon 650 or, better, a Dillon 1050, you can crank them out as fast as you can set a bullet and pull the handle. These machines are so fast that just about the time you get a rhythm going, you are out of primers.

These machines aren't cheap - figure a fully loaded 650 at $1000. But, if you shoot a lot, that money comes back pretty quick. Well under a year...

Of course, if the goal is to simply be able to make ammo during a 'shortage', any press will work.

Richard


Yeah, I can see it being worth it if I could get set up on a progressive press for 6-7 hundred.

F106 Fan
01-27-2012, 11:04
Yeah, I can see it being worth it if I could get set up on a progressive press for 6-7 hundred.

You can do somewhat better than that ($ wise) with the Dillon 550B but the production rate drops down to 500 (more or less) per hour. Actually, the 550B is the workhorse of reloading and highly recommended for new reloaders. It will do just about every caliber (I don't think it will do .50 BMG) and is one of the most highly regarded presses around.

Disclaimer: I have two of them so I am prejudiced.

Second Disclaimer: With 4 of us shooting out of my ammo can, the 550B was a little slow. I bought a 1050 specifically to load .45 ACP. I use the 550B to load a little 9mm for my grandson. I bought it instead of the less expensive 650 because it swages the primer pockets. Sometimes I pick up military cases.

If my grandson becomes a big time 9mm pistolero, I will buy another 1050. I'm lazy!

If you're only interested in pistol calibers (no rifle), the Dillon Square Deal is another possibility.

http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/customize-reloader.html

There's a reloading forum here on Glock Talk and those fellows really know reloading.

Richard

F106 Fan
01-27-2012, 11:19
BVAC is good ammo.


I don't think you will find universal agreement on that. One fellow on the reloading forum was complaining about being able to spin the bullet in the case.

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1394924&highlight=bvac


Wal Mart has UMC 250 rd box for 96.00, my 30 sf thinks it is candy.


That's just a little under $400/1000. I'd be bankrupt shooting a couple of thousand rounds a month.


I may get flamed for saying this but you can get a Lee Load master set for 45 acp for $230.00. With a little tweeking it will spit out lots of good ammo. I have a freind that has one and he can do 300 or 400 rds an hour.
I cant say I have seen him do that but I have seen him do 250 or so rds that fast. The ammo shoots fine from my 30sf

There are lots of machines around (including the Hornady Lock-n-Load AP) in all kinds of price ranges. The subject is debated endlessly over in the Reloading forum. Most of the regulars are using Dillon, but not all of them. It's my understanding that Dillon sells more presses than all the other manufacturers combined. There's probably a reason. Other than the spiffy blue paint...

There is a falacy in getting into reloading 'on the cheap'. Many people want to start loading pistol with an inexpensive single stage press. They find out quickly that that was a mistake. I did; it took about 500 rounds and I was done with it. I've gone from an RCBS single stage to a Ponsness-Warren MetalMatic (like a turret press) to a Dillon 450 to a Dillon 550B to an RCBS Green Machine (no longer available) and finally to a Dillon 1050 for my .45 ACP loading. I don't regret the progression but I could have saved a lot of money by just buying a Dillon 650 in the first place. It would have been fast enough but it wouldn't swage primer pockets like the 1050. I could get by...

Richard

Fire_Medic
01-27-2012, 12:56
Yeah, I can see it being worth it if I could get set up on a progressive press for 6-7 hundred.

There is nothing wrong with a 650 but there's also nothing wrong with a 550. I bought the 550 because it was my first press and it does not auto index so I could learn with the machine in a way that I felt was better. There are many issues in the beginning or mistakes if you will that I caught which I might not have caught on a 650 or would have caught them late and had to redo ammo.

If the primer tubes are filled ahead of time and everything is set, bullets counted out and brass cleaned, I can easily load 500-800 rounds in an hour without killing myself. Prior planning and setup makes the loading part go much smoother and faster.

To some guys that's not fast enough, but any faster to me and it would really take the enjoyment out of it and be pushing the pace too much.

Unless you're shooting a boat load of ammo monthly I can't see why the average joe would need more than a 550, caliber changes are cheaper and faster than the other machines, and you can load most popular rifle rounds on it as well. It's a very versatile machine.

It has been more than enough press for my needs now for a few years, and it paid for itself in savings a long time ago. A normal range trip for my wife and myself is 500-700 rounds depending on what caliber and pistol(s) are being shot. We try to go to the range once a month at least now, it's much harder with a 4 year old and 4 month old and new house. So it's easy to do the math and see. Throw on top of this the 2-4 classes I take per year, and the fact that my "hobby" resolution for 2012 is to get out and shoot IDPA, and this adds up to a lot of ammo. However, I DO NOT consider myself a high volume shooter.

A lot of folks shoot maybe a few hundred rounds per year and think it's a lot, and it really is not. You just need to be honest with yourself and see if the cost is worth getting into reloading and how fast might you recoup your initial investment. Also keep in mind once you start reloading you will find yourself shooting more than usual, this is quite normal.

The old saying is so very true, reloading does not save you money, it just let's you shoot more dollar for doll in comparison to crappy factory ammo.

Just my $0.02 YMMV :wavey:

ColCol
01-27-2012, 13:41
Reload-the only way to go. Pluses include it's good therpy, sense of satisfaction and you get to tailor make and use bullets of your choice. It's cheaper than any factory ammo I'd be using.

F106 Fan
01-27-2012, 16:29
Fire-Medic,

I agree that the 550B is a great machine. I disagree that it is all that is needed. The thing is slow when compared to anything with a case feeder. But that is something the individual reloader will have to decide. Speed or cost.

OTOH, the ease of changing toolheads and the shell plate are worth something. A caliber change is trivial. I have two 550Bs so that I don't have to change the primer mechanism. A long time ago I shot .38 wadcutters for PPC and .45 ACP for IPSC. I also shot skeet on night leagues during the week and sometimes on the off weekends. All of my time was spent pulling a handle. I just didn't have time to be changing the primer mechanism if I didn't have to.

Rifle reloading is another strong point for the 550. Not that the others can't do it but the ease of changing from .38 wadcutters to, say .223 is a nice feature. My toolheads are fully populated with dies and powder mechanisms. I change the shellplate (if necessary) and pop in a new toolhead and I'm ready to load.

I also count the time it takes to load primer tubes as part of the time used in rounds/hour. It takes a time to pick up 1000 primers.

There are some great 'stickies' over in the reloading forum for anyone who is interested in getting started.

Richard

malleable
01-27-2012, 16:34
tagged for future purchase

brisk21
01-27-2012, 20:59
You can do somewhat better than that ($ wise) with the Dillon 550B but the production rate drops down to 500 (more or less) per hour. Actually, the 550B is the workhorse of reloading and highly recommended for new reloaders. It will do just about every caliber (I don't think it will do .50 BMG) and is one of the most highly regarded presses around.

Disclaimer: I have two of them so I am prejudiced.

Second Disclaimer: With 4 of us shooting out of my ammo can, the 550B was a little slow. I bought a 1050 specifically to load .45 ACP. I use the 550B to load a little 9mm for my grandson. I bought it instead of the less expensive 650 because it swages the primer pockets. Sometimes I pick up military cases.

If my grandson becomes a big time 9mm pistolero, I will buy another 1050. I'm lazy!

If you're only interested in pistol calibers (no rifle), the Dillon Square Deal is another possibility.

http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/customize-reloader.html

There's a reloading forum here on Glock Talk and those fellows really know reloading.

Richard

There is nothing wrong with a 650 but there's also nothing wrong with a 550. I bought the 550 because it was my first press and it does not auto index so I could learn with the machine in a way that I felt was better. There are many issues in the beginning or mistakes if you will that I caught which I might not have caught on a 650 or would have caught them late and had to redo ammo.

If the primer tubes are filled ahead of time and everything is set, bullets counted out and brass cleaned, I can easily load 500-800 rounds in an hour without killing myself. Prior planning and setup makes the loading part go much smoother and faster.

To some guys that's not fast enough, but any faster to me and it would really take the enjoyment out of it and be pushing the pace too much.

Unless you're shooting a boat load of ammo monthly I can't see why the average joe would need more than a 550, caliber changes are cheaper and faster than the other machines, and you can load most popular rifle rounds on it as well. It's a very versatile machine.

It has been more than enough press for my needs now for a few years, and it paid for itself in savings a long time ago. A normal range trip for my wife and myself is 500-700 rounds depending on what caliber and pistol(s) are being shot. We try to go to the range once a month at least now, it's much harder with a 4 year old and 4 month old and new house. So it's easy to do the math and see. Throw on top of this the 2-4 classes I take per year, and the fact that my "hobby" resolution for 2012 is to get out and shoot IDPA, and this adds up to a lot of ammo. However, I DO NOT consider myself a high volume shooter.

A lot of folks shoot maybe a few hundred rounds per year and think it's a lot, and it really is not. You just need to be honest with yourself and see if the cost is worth getting into reloading and how fast might you recoup your initial investment. Also keep in mind once you start reloading you will find yourself shooting more than usual, this is quite normal.

The old saying is so very true, reloading does not save you money, it just let's you shoot more dollar for doll in comparison to crappy factory ammo.

Just my $0.02 YMMV :wavey:


Very good to know. I may just break down this year and get started. If I do, I will be bugging some of you in the reloading forums!!

Fire_Medic
01-28-2012, 09:04
Fire-Medic,

I agree that the 550B is a great machine. I disagree that it is all that is needed. The thing is slow when compared to anything with a case feeder. But that is something the individual reloader will have to decide. Speed or cost.



I said all that was needed for an average shooter, which obviously you do not fall into that category. You're 100% spot on on the SPEED VS Cost issue, and like I said it is my opinion that for the average Joe a 550B is sufficient. For guys who travel to shoot and shoot 10,000 rounds per month, etc, the 550 would certainly be lacking.

If even changing primer tubes propelled you to buy another 500, then I could not imagine how much ammunition you shoot per week/month/year.

I couldn't justify the cost of setting up another 550 just to not have to swap primer tubes and tool head and conversion kit.

This is why I stated previously the individual needs to honestly evaluate how much press they need.

sgt rock
01-28-2012, 11:15
Speer Lawman