What is the result of poor safety practices and procedures? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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nyycanseco33
01-26-2012, 06:20
I wanna know what your ideas are on this... My personal feeling is that it is a result of poor upbringing. The proof is in the people who violate the laws of safe handling, look at their backgrounds. When I was a kid it was constantly pounded into my mindset that I am to follow safe procedures 100% of the time regardless of it being loaded or unloaded etc. these are life lessons learned that today's young shooters and hunters just aren't receiving... What are your thoughts? Agree or disagree and why? If not what you think the reason is then please explain your alternative views...


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IT0
01-26-2012, 07:39
I think the anti-gun culture owns a big part of poor handling procedures for the general public. Boys will be boys and boys love guns. There is nothing that will ever change this fact.

However when you they anti-gun groups work hard to change public sentiment and remove guns from our culture, they inadvertently remove programs for young boys in Boy-Scouts, summer camps, and schools that in the past were in place to start the safety indoctrination that all young boys should have.

It amazes me how many men I run into that after finding out I shoot for sport and fun, ask me to take them shooting sometime because they have never been. I am not an instructor, not trained and not the best person to be instructing new shooters, yet I find myself in this roll more often than I am comfortable with. My solution has been to keep my mouth shut.

So if you want to address poor safety practices, look where a lot of young boys and men are learning about guns; its TV, the movies, and video games. The anti-gun crowd has sort of shot themselves in the foot, but maybe that was intentional.

runcible68
01-26-2012, 13:53
Everyone should learn the basics of gun safety and how to use them. Especially those who do not like guns or never want to own a gun. The reason for this are:


1) Even an "anti" may run into a situation with a loaded firearm. (Let's say they find a kid playing with one, it gets brought to school, found on the street, whatever.) While I advocate calling the cops, it may become necessary for that "anti" to store the weapon safely or unload it. It'd be nice to know how.

2) Even an "anti" might find themselves in a situation where they need to use a firearm. Say there's a shooting in a school or mall and an "anti" whose life is in jeopardy has access to a fallen CCW holder or police officer's weapon. Again, it'd be nice to know how.

3) Learning how to use a gun helps demystify it. I have taken several "antis" to the range. Once they understood what a gun really was, they had a more realistic view of them. It was also good for them to see how I, and everyone at the range, put such a premium on safety. That helped dispel the whole "gun owner as yahoo" thing.

4) Teaching people about guns, especially children, helps dispel "Hollywood" notions of guns and teaches them that firearms, while usually handled safely and by competent people, are still very dangerous and deserve respect. No holding the gun "Gangsta" style!

I will always take the curious and fearful shooting. So should all gun owners. Our emphasis should always be about educating "antis" and not just pillorying them

Grey Goblin
01-26-2012, 14:03
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Brian Lee
01-26-2012, 14:20
................When I was a kid it was constantly pounded into my mindset that I am to follow safe procedures 100% of the time regardless of it being loaded or unloaded etc.............

Totally agree. It was pounded into my brain too, and not just about guns.

Me and my brothers were also pounded with safety concerning farm tractors and other dangerous equipment as well, and nobody in my family EVER had a farm related accident.

A couple miles away there was a farming family led by a foolish man who never played it safe with his machinery, and he allowed his sons to do stupid things too. By the time the boys were in their early twenties, 2 of three had lost an arm or a hand cleaning debris out of a corn picker while it was still running just to save the 30 seconds it would have taken to shut the engine off and make the thing totally safe. Their father had already lost his arm to this very same accident years earlier when the boys were all little, but somehow the family never learned anything from it.

I've not seen any of them in decades, but I suppose they probably have a few one-arm grandchildren in the family by now.

Sure, accidents can happen to anyone. But 90 percent of them happen to those who are just begging for it to happen.

ijacek
01-26-2012, 19:11
I don’t think it’s all in the upbringing, I believe it is each individual person’s approach to the topic at hand.

I was born in Eastern Europe, and needless to say, because of the government regulations people were unable to own many firearms. Yes, I had some limited contact with my uncle’s “farm” shotgun, but it was more of a novelty, look at it, shoot one time and be done type of a deal. I have never really had any formal/informal firearms training while living in the old country.

That changed when I moved to the US and decided to get up close and personal with the gun culture. I have since taken multiple firearms courses, became an LEO, and even went on to become an FDLE certified firearms instructor.

So, even while not having early childhood input on safe gun handling, I fully submitted myself to the instructions passed on to me, I paid attention and ever since my first firearms training (CCW mandatory training) I actually live by the safe gun handling.

I believe that depending on where one lives, guns are either on the forefront (AR, TX, NV, NM, CO, etc., ) or they are a big taboo (CA, NY and so on). One either learns from family member, which is the right and safe way; or TV, movies and so on. If the "instructor" is the media then, with the disappearing levels of common sense and non-existent acceptance of responsibility for ones own actions, you will have the fingers on the triggers, sideways guns and yes, negligent either self or family shootings. (http://www.mydeathspace.com/article/2008/10/03/Andrea_Anzola_(20)_was_shot_to_death_by_her_boyfriend_while_he_was_fooling_around_with_a_loaded_gun)

blastfact
01-26-2012, 20:23
Common Sense is being beat out of people at a alarming rate.

HAMMERHEAD
01-26-2012, 22:50
Not everyone was raised with guns like most of us. Just because they didn't get safe gun handling pounded into there heads doesn't mean they were raised poorly.

We need to be patient with them and teach them.

southernshooter
01-27-2012, 15:15
Reminds me of being at a public range a few days ago. Nobody had spoken much between the shooters in the different lanes. They went down to check their targets and I didn't need to. When they looked back at me they could see I had stepped back behind the tables (as opposed to being up at my table messing with my gun while they are downrange). I stayed back behind the firing line the whole time they were down range. Several guys were friendly and talkative when they came back. I could tell they appreciated proper range behavior.

nyycanseco33
01-27-2012, 15:43
Reminds me of being at a public range a few days ago. Nobody had spoken much between the shooters in the different lanes. They went down to check their targets and I didn't need to. When they looked back at me they could see I had stepped back behind the tables (as opposed to being up at my table messing with my gun while they are downrange). I stayed back behind the firing line the whole time they were down range. Several guys were friendly and talkative when they came back. I could tell they appreciated proper range behavior.

That's great, that's what I think is missed nowadays with the younger guys... I'm 29 years old I just feel like the young guys like my age and younger are just not as safety conscious as they should... What you did there was not only proper range behavior but it was full of respect for the other shooters and just proper etiquette when dealing with firearms on a public or club range... I applaud your actions and glad the others there noticed it as well


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gator378
01-27-2012, 15:50
I wanna know what your ideas are on this... My personal feeling is that it is a result of poor upbringing. The proof is in the people who violate the laws of safe handling, look at their backgrounds. When I was a kid it was constantly pounded into my mindset that I am to follow safe procedures 100% of the time regardless of it being loaded or unloaded etc. these are life lessons learned that today's young shooters and hunters just aren't receiving... What are your thoughts? Agree or disagree and why? If not what you think the reason is then please explain your alternative views...


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When I was growing up you learned real quick that don't shoot Grandpa's dairy cows, horses, pigs, tractors, or machinary. So gun safety meant something since your butt was at stake. No accidents period !!!

gator378
01-27-2012, 15:58
Totally agree. It was pounded into my brain too, and not just about guns.

Me and my brothers were also pounded with safety concerning farm tractors and other dangerous equipment as well, and nobody in my family EVER had a farm related accident.

A couple miles away there was a farming family led by a foolish man who never played it safe with his machinery, and he allowed his sons to do stupid things too. By the time the boys were in their early twenties, 2 of three had lost an arm or a hand cleaning debris out of a corn picker while it was still running just to save the 30 seconds it would have taken to shut the engine off and make the thing totally safe. Their father had already lost his arm to this very same accident years earlier when the boys were all little, but somehow the family never learned anything from it.

I've not seen any of them in decades, but I suppose they probably have a few one-arm grandchildren in the family by now.

Sure, accidents can happen to anyone. But 90 percent of them happen to those who are just begging for it to happen.

Stupid people do not survive the farm. When Grandfather said to do something you did it because your safety was at stake. Same thing in the Service, Air Force. You followed safety procedures because your life is at stake. There were no mistakes involving weapons period.

dosei
01-27-2012, 16:09
The result of poor safety practices and procedures is a bullet going places it was not supposed to go.



Poor safety practices and procedures are the result of ignorance, arrogance, and/or apathy.

cheapshot
01-28-2012, 18:05
I wanna know what your ideas are on this... My personal feeling is that it is a result of poor upbringing. The proof is in the people who violate the laws of safe handling, look at their backgrounds. When I was a kid it was constantly pounded into my mindset that I am to follow safe procedures 100% of the time regardless of it being loaded or unloaded etc. these are life lessons learned that today's young shooters and hunters just aren't receiving... What are your thoughts? Agree or disagree and why? If not what you think the reason is then please explain your alternative views...

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Agree 100%. I kind of agree with what Hammerhead said though. Perhaps some weren' lucky enough to be "brought up" around guns and gun safety. As for some of the knotheads i've been around at various shooting events, i don't think there's any hope. I consider it my responsibility to help anyone interested in firearms with safety training and responsibility. All boils down to whether they are willing to be responsible enough to absorb what's offered. Sounds like i had the same kind of "safety training officer" as you did growing up!!!

bdcremer
01-28-2012, 19:30
I stopped counting how many times I would request a shooter to keep their muzzle downrange and finger off the trigger as an RSO. The responses were almost always contempt and people get very offended when corrected on how to manipulate that deadly weapon. I got a chuckle when the older guys tell me they have been shooting longer than I have been alive, as though that excuses unsafe weapons handling. Some people would say "No I didn't." Not even aware of what they did.

Ego is the number reason for being unsafe with weapons. Everybody with a gun wants to be seen as the master of such a device. When people are confronted with a safety violation their ego cannot handle the criticism in their skill set or body of knowledge with weapons. Weapons safety requires presence and immediate action.

Cletus
01-28-2012, 19:57
The anti-gun crowd has sort of shot themselves in the foot, but maybe that was intentional.

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